Discussion:
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
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Tony Nance
2021-07-01 12:49:34 UTC
Permalink
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021

In appreciation of how I've benefitted from SF recs & info here over the years, I have a low-level goal to add more on-topic content. I’m aiming to do this type of post every couple of months, with this being the third one.

I think there are no spoilers this time, not even minor ones. If something does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the book in question and is front-and-center.

Below is a slightly augmented list of what I read in May&June, with a very primitive rating system:
“+” are good, and more “+” are better
“-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse

If ratings seem overrepresented on the + side overall, it’s because I’m pretty fortunate at avoiding unenjoyable books. This group helps a lot with that, which also inspires my low-level goal.

I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.

Highlight - Balance of Trade just barely over Artificial Condition

Lowlight - China Mountain Zhang just barely under(?) Iron Sunrise

June
(++) Big Planet - Vance
I’m filling in the gaps of Vance books I have missed, and Big Planet was the next one up. This is very early Vance. In fact, Michael Moorcock’s forward says it is his first novel; however, you have to look below the surface —and for me, read Moorcock’s forward — to sniff out that it is early. It’s very Vance-like, and very good.

(++) The Iron Khan - Williams [Inspector Chen #5]
Although the happenings are rather dark and serious, somehow I’d classify this series as light and fun. It’s almost certainly due to the characters’ personalities, mindsets, and approaches. Inspector Chen is a human detective on Earth who often works for Heaven, and also ends up working with a demon from Hell on some rather thorny cases. As the series rolls on, there is a lot of world-building and development of characters. The characters are observant and often have the type of internal commentary and self-questioning many of us do. There is a 6th one “Morningstar”, but it’s self-published and very hard to track down - I have done some initial digging and not turned up a successful way to get it.

(+++) Artificial Condition - Wells [Murderbot #2]
This was so enjoyable that I wished it was longer. (It is short - maybe even novella length.) In this second entry of the series, self-named Murderbot investigates the incident that led to it becoming a self-governing entity; and it agrees to a specific short-term contract with humans along the way. It also gets to know the AI persona of a research ship - great interactions there. There’s wonderful internal dialogue, the right amount (and right kind) of snark, and it’s very enjoyable to observe humanity through Murderbot’s eyes while seeing Murderbot’s own reactions. Of course I’m looking forward to reading the 3rd one.

(++ -) Thicker Than Water - Carey [Felix Castor #4]
Felix “Fix” Castor sees spirits and can interact with the strongest of them (as well as exorcise them). He gets cases, often from the police, where he tries to help solve murders and/or mysteries. There’s a longer arc that develops alongside the book-long cases. This is a pretty solid series, though I wish Felix would tone down being such a jerk to his family and friends so frequently.

(++) The Hugo Winners Vol 5 (1980-1982) ed. by Asimov (I read this off and on between the previous novels)
For Volume 5, as you’d expect, there are some really enjoyable stories:
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?33522 Amongst the re-reads, the Zelazny is one of my favorites of his. I just skimmed Lost Dorsai and The Pusher because I’d read them within the last couple years. To my surprise, I had not read Anderson’s The Saturn Game before - and I thought I had, so if not for this collection I don’t know how I would have figured that out. (The Saturn Game was “eh”, btw - too many stupid decisions by the characters.) For the ones new to me, Enemy Mine and Grotto of the Dancing Deer were my favorites. This volume is the last of the original series, though three years later Asimov & Greenberg started publishing The New Hugo Winners series. I will probably start looking for those.

( - - ) China Mountain Zhang - McHugh
You know, there’s an interesting world lurking in the background here (a China-dominated Earth, about 200(?) years from now). It probably has interesting people doing interesting things; but those things aren’t shown in this book. This book featured ordinary mostly-uninteresting people doing ordinary mostly-uninteresting things, where “ordinary” is sometimes relative to the world they’re living in. The chapters alternate point-of-view between the title character and numerous side characters. It feels like the kind of book that English teachers would assign and excitedly point out various symbolisms and allusions and other English-y stuff. To me, this was just a book-long shrug where pretty much nothing happened.

(+++) Balance of Trade - Lee & Miller [Liaden - hard to denumerate since the publishing order does not match the internal chronology - I think this is the 11th one I’ve read, almost in publishing order]
Lee & Miller create such wonderful characters within this rich and ever-evolving universe. As I progress through this series, I “miss” the previous protagonists, but the new ones have been just as good so far. Balance of Trade is the first of two featuring Jethri Gobelyn, who in this novel becomes the first Terran to become an apprentice to a Liaden trader, striving to become a trader in the Liaden guild. Very enjoyable characters, interactions, development, and world-building. I expect to read the next one (Trade Secret) very soon.

May
(+++) The Best of C.L. Moore - Moore (I read this off and on between the previous novels)
The only reason this isn’t a Highlight is that I’d read most of the stories already. From the new ones, “Daemon” is underappreciated (or under-publicized) and wonderful. “Fruit of Knowledge” was also a very interesting take on a well-explored setting. The re-reads included some Northwest Smith & Jirel of Joiry, and well-known classics like “Vintage Season”, “No Woman Born”, and more.

(+ - - -) Iron Sunrise - Stross
If you can ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, this was…okay. If you can’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, you give some minuses. I couldn’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect. Sheesh.

(+) The Time of Contempt - Sapkowski [Witcher #4 (4th book, 2nd novel - spine says “2”)]
I enjoyed this, but…Though there is progression and development, these are starting to feel kind of same-y. I’ll see how the next one goes, but if it doesn’t shed that feeling, I may stop.

(++) Dragon’s Egg - Forward
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain, very similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories (which I greatly enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there hasn’t been much commentary here over the years on his other works. What should I try next?

(+++) Carrying the Fire - Collins [non-fiction - re-read]
I pulled this off the shelf in the aftermath of Collins’ passing near the end of April. I was intending to just re-read a “best parts” version, but I ended up re-reading almost all of it. To me, this doesn’t feel like a typical autobiography. It feels much more like an insider’s look at the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo programs. Really enjoyable. RIP Michael Collins.

Now reading:
Long work - A Wizard’s Guide to Defensive Baking - T.Kingfisher (Ursula Vernon)
Collection - Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for the ones I haven’t read before]

Tony
Tony Nance
2021-07-01 13:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Line-wrapping issues addressed:

Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021

In appreciation of how I've benefitted from SF recs & info
here over the years, I have a low-level goal to add more
on-topic content. I’m aiming to do this type of post every
couple of months, with this being the third one.

I think there are no spoilers this time, not even minor ones.
If something does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the
book in question and is front-and-center.

Below is a slightly augmented list of what I read in May&June,
with a very primitive rating system:
“+” are good, and more “+” are better
“-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse

If ratings seem overrepresented on the + side overall, it’s
because I’m pretty fortunate at avoiding unenjoyable books.
This group helps a lot with that, which also inspires my
low-level goal.

I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.

Highlight - Balance of Trade just barely over Artificial Condition

Lowlight - China Mountain Zhang just barely under(?) Iron Sunrise

June
(++) Big Planet - Vance
I’m filling in the gaps of Vance books I have missed, and
Big Planet was the next one up. This is very early Vance.
In fact, Michael Moorcock’s forward says it is his first novel;
however, you have to look below the surface —and for me,
read Moorcock’s forward — to sniff out that it is early. It’s
very Vance-like, and very good.

(++) The Iron Khan - Williams [Inspector Chen #5]
Although the happenings are rather dark and serious, somehow
I’d classify this series as light and fun. It’s almost certainly due
to the characters’ personalities, mindsets, and approaches.
Inspector Chen is a human detective on Earth who often works
for Heaven, and also ends up working with a demon from Hell
on some rather thorny cases. As the series rolls on, there is a
lot of world-building and development of characters. The
characters are observant and often have the type of internal
commentary and self-questioning many of us do. There is a 6th
one “Morningstar”, but it’s self-published and very hard to track
down - I have done some initial digging and not turned up a
successful way to get it.

(+++) Artificial Condition - Wells [Murderbot #2]
This was so enjoyable that I wished it was longer. (It is short -
maybe even novella length.) In this second entry of the series,
self-named Murderbot investigates the incident that led to it
becoming a self-governing entity; and it agrees to a specific
short-term contract with humans along the way. It also gets
to know the AI persona of a research ship - great interactions
there. There’s wonderful internal dialogue, the right amount
(and right kind) of snark, and it’s very enjoyable to observe
humanity through Murderbot’s eyes while seeing Murderbot’s
own reactions. Of course I’m looking forward to reading the
3rd one.

(++ -) Thicker Than Water - Carey [Felix Castor #4]
Felix “Fix” Castor sees spirits and can interact with the strongest
of them (as well as exorcise them). He gets cases, often from the
police, where he tries to help solve murders and/or mysteries.
There’s a longer arc that develops alongside the book-long cases.
This is a pretty solid series, though I wish Felix would tone down
being such a jerk to his family and friends so frequently.

(++) The Hugo Winners Vol 5 (1980-1982) ed. by Asimov (I read
this off and on between the previous novels)
For Volume 5, as you’d expect, there are some really enjoyable stories:
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?33522 Amongst the re-reads,
the Zelazny is one of my favorites of his. I just skimmed Lost Dorsai
and The Pusher because I’d read them within the last couple years.
To my surprise, I had not read Anderson’s The Saturn Game before -
and I thought I had, so if not for this collection I don’t know how
I would have figured that out. (The Saturn Game was “eh”, btw - too
many stupid decisions by the characters.) For the ones new to me,
Enemy Mine and Grotto of the Dancing Deer were my favorites. This
volume is the last of the original series, though three years later
Asimov & Greenberg started publishing The New Hugo Winners
series. I will probably start looking for those.

( - - ) China Mountain Zhang - McHugh
You know, there’s an interesting world lurking in the background
here (a China-dominated Earth, about 200(?) years from now).
It probably has interesting people doing interesting things; but
those things aren’t shown in this book. This book featured ordinary
mostly-uninteresting people doing ordinary mostly-uninteresting
things, where “ordinary” is sometimes relative to the world they’re
living in. The chapters alternate point-of-view between the title
character and numerous side characters. It feels like the kind of
book that English teachers would assign and excitedly point out
various symbolisms and allusions and other English-y stuff. To me,
this was just a book-long shrug where pretty much nothing happened.

(+++) Balance of Trade - Lee & Miller [Liaden - hard to denumerate
since the publishing order does not match the internal chronology -
I think this is the 11th one I’ve read, almost in publishing order]
Lee & Miller create such wonderful characters within this rich and
ever-evolving universe. As I progress through this series, I “miss”
the previous protagonists, but the new ones have been just as good
so far. Balance of Trade is the first of two featuring Jethri Gobelyn,
who in this novel becomes the first Terran to become an apprentice
to a Liaden trader, striving to become a trader in the Liaden guild.
Very enjoyable characters, interactions, development, and world-building.
I expect to read the next one (Trade Secret) very soon.

May
(+++) The Best of C.L. Moore - Moore (I read this off and on between
the previous novels)
The only reason this isn’t a Highlight is that I’d read most of the
stories already. From the new ones, “Daemon” is underappreciated
(or under-publicized) and wonderful. “Fruit of Knowledge” was also
a very interesting take on a well-explored setting. The re-reads included
some Northwest Smith & Jirel of Joiry, and well-known classics like
“Vintage Season”, “No Woman Born”, and more.

(+ - - -) Iron Sunrise - Stross
If you can ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, this was…okay.
If you can’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, you give some
minuses. I couldn’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect. Sheesh.

(+) The Time of Contempt - Sapkowski [Witcher #4 (4th book, 2nd novel -
spine says “2”)]
I enjoyed this, but…Though there is progression and development,
these are starting to feel kind of same-y. I’ll see how the next one
goes, but if it doesn’t shed that feeling, I may stop.

(++) Dragon’s Egg - Forward
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain,
very similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories
(which I greatly enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there
hasn’t been much commentary here over the years on his other works.
What should I try next?

(+++) Carrying the Fire - Collins [non-fiction - re-read]
I pulled this off the shelf in the aftermath of Collins’ passing near the
end of April. I was intending to just re-read a “best parts” version, but
I ended up re-reading almost all of it. To me, this doesn’t feel like a
typical autobiography. It feels much more like an insider’s look at the
Mercury/Gemini/Apollo programs. Really enjoyable. RIP Michael Collins.

Now reading:
Long work - A Wizard’s Guide to Defensive Baking - T.Kingfisher (Ursula Vernon)
Collection - Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for the ones I haven’t read before]

Tony
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2021-07-01 13:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
In appreciation of how I've benefitted from SF recs & info
here over the years, I have a low-level goal to add more
on-topic content. I’m aiming to do this type of post every
couple of months, with this being the third one.
I think there are no spoilers this time, not even minor ones.
If something does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the
book in question and is front-and-center.
Below is a slightly augmented list of what I read in May&June,
“+” are good, and more “+” are better
“-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse
If ratings seem overrepresented on the + side overall, it’s
because I’m pretty fortunate at avoiding unenjoyable books.
This group helps a lot with that, which also inspires my
low-level goal.
I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.
Highlight - Balance of Trade just barely over Artificial Condition
Lowlight - China Mountain Zhang just barely under(?) Iron Sunrise
June
(++) Big Planet - Vance
I’m filling in the gaps of Vance books I have missed, and
Big Planet was the next one up. This is very early Vance.
In fact, Michael Moorcock’s forward says it is his first novel;
however, you have to look below the surface —and for me,
read Moorcock’s forward — to sniff out that it is early. It’s
very Vance-like, and very good.
Does this predate _The Five Gold Bands_? Because I recall that one as
very unVancian while _Big Planet_ was much more so.
Post by Tony Nance
(+++) Balance of Trade - Lee & Miller [Liaden - hard to denumerate
since the publishing order does not match the internal chronology -
I think this is the 11th one I’ve read, almost in publishing order]
Lee & Miller create such wonderful characters within this rich and
ever-evolving universe. As I progress through this series, I “miss”
the previous protagonists, but the new ones have been just as good
so far. Balance of Trade is the first of two featuring Jethri Gobelyn,
who in this novel becomes the first Terran to become an apprentice
to a Liaden trader, striving to become a trader in the Liaden guild.
Very enjoyable characters, interactions, development, and world-building.
I expect to read the next one (Trade Secret) very soon.
I enjoyed the follow-up as well. I think this duology is the most "Norton"
they've yet done. (Though Norton youths never get to have sex..). IMHO
there's no point in following internal chronology, publication order is
the best bet.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Tony Nance
2021-07-01 18:24:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
In appreciation of how I've benefitted from SF recs & info
here over the years, I have a low-level goal to add more
on-topic content. I’m aiming to do this type of post every
couple of months, with this being the third one.
I think there are no spoilers this time, not even minor ones.
If something does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the
book in question and is front-and-center.
Below is a slightly augmented list of what I read in May&June,
“+” are good, and more “+” are better
“-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse
If ratings seem overrepresented on the + side overall, it’s
because I’m pretty fortunate at avoiding unenjoyable books.
This group helps a lot with that, which also inspires my
low-level goal.
I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.
Highlight - Balance of Trade just barely over Artificial Condition
Lowlight - China Mountain Zhang just barely under(?) Iron Sunrise
June
(++) Big Planet - Vance
I’m filling in the gaps of Vance books I have missed, and
Big Planet was the next one up. This is very early Vance.
In fact, Michael Moorcock’s forward says it is his first novel;
however, you have to look below the surface —and for me,
read Moorcock’s forward — to sniff out that it is early. It’s
very Vance-like, and very good.
Does this predate _The Five Gold Bands_? Because I recall that one as
very unVancian while _Big Planet_ was much more so.
I couldn't decide, so I left it as Moorcock's assertion. When I dug into it,
it started to get less clear, partly coming down to how you classify books
that were initially serializations, and maybe how you define "novel" and
"novella". My DAW copy of The Five Gold Bands is copyrighted 1950, and
my copy of Big Planet has an initial copyright of 1951.

I agree that The Five Gold Bands has far less of the familiar Vance feel.
Post by Tony Nance
(+++) Balance of Trade - Lee & Miller [Liaden - hard to denumerate
<snip somefor brevity>
Very enjoyable characters, interactions, development, and world-building.
I expect to read the next one (Trade Secret) very soon.
I enjoyed the follow-up as well. I think this duology is the most "Norton"
they've yet done. (Though Norton youths never get to have sex..). IMHO
there's no point in following internal chronology, publication order is
the best bet.
Yeah, I've been mostly sticking to publication order, with very minor
tweaking. Publication order is my default and it rarely goes wrong for me.

Tony
Michael F. Stemper
2021-07-01 19:30:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
(++) The Hugo Winners Vol 5 (1980-1982) ed. by Asimov (I read
this off and on between the previous novels)
I'm going through the Hugo collections at the moment. However, what
I have does not include 4 or 5, but skips right from 3 to "More".
Post by Tony Nance
(+++) The Best of C.L. Moore
This is on my "to buy" list. I picked up my first solo Moore about two
weeks ago. I've read lots of stuff that she and Kuttner co-wrote.
Post by Tony Nance
(+ - - -) Iron Sunrise - Stross
If you can ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, this was…okay.
If you can’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, you give some
minuses. I couldn’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect. Sheesh.
Your loss, but we've always viewed Stross differently. Have you tried
"Merchant Families" books?
Post by Tony Nance
(++) Dragon’s Egg - Forward
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain,
very similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories
(which I greatly enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there
hasn’t been much commentary here over the years on his other works.
What should I try next?
I was impressed with the writing in this, so I picked up some actual
(pop) science that he wrote. Could not stand it. He must have made a
real effort to have carried off _Dragon's Egg_ so well.
Post by Tony Nance
Collection - Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for the ones I haven’t read before]
I look forward to hearing about this.
--
Michael F. Stemper
The name of the story is "A Sound of Thunder".
It was written by Ray Bradbury. You're welcome.
Titus G
2021-07-02 04:47:40 UTC
Permalink
snippage
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
(+++) The Best of C.L. Moore
This is on my "to buy" list. I picked up my first solo Moore about two
weeks ago. I've read lots of stuff that she and Kuttner co-wrote.
I might have done as well in my youth but can't remember anything except
for the short stories _Mimsy Were The Borogoves_ , _Private Eye_ and a
favourite, _Happy Ending- .
If you could recommend only one of their co-written novels, what would
it be?
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
(+ - - -) Iron Sunrise - Stross
If you can ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, this was…okay.
If you can’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, you give some
minuses. I couldn’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect. Sheesh.
Your loss, but we've always viewed Stross differently. Have you tried
"Merchant Families" books?
I didn't really enjoy the four* Stross books I borrowed from a friend
who had twenty one novels at that time. _Family Trade_ , the first of
the Merchant Princes series was OK but I never bothered with the second.
*(Halting State OK, Rule 34 Nah, Accelerando Nah.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Collection -  Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for the
ones I haven’t read before]
I look forward to hearing about this.
I am not sure if I do because I do not know if Simak will stand the test
of time. In recent years, I enjoyed a reread of _City_ but didn't finish
_Our Children's Children_ in which he likened the eponymous protagonists
to US Red Indians, the exact opposite. And clunky old dialogue.
Michael F. Stemper
2021-07-02 16:17:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
snippage
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
(+++) The Best of C.L. Moore
This is on my "to buy" list. I picked up my first solo Moore about two
weeks ago. I've read lots of stuff that she and Kuttner co-wrote.
I might have done as well in my youth but can't remember anything except
for the short stories _Mimsy Were The Borogoves_ , _Private Eye_ and a
favourite, _Happy Ending- .
If you could recommend only one of their co-written novels, what would
it be?
Actually, all of their work that I've read has been short stories, so
I'm afraid that I can't help.
Post by Titus G
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
(+ - - -) Iron Sunrise - Stross
If you can ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, this was…okay.
If you can’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, you give some
minuses. I couldn’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect. Sheesh.
Your loss, but we've always viewed Stross differently. Have you tried
"Merchant Families" books?
I didn't really enjoy the four* Stross books I borrowed from a friend
Can't say you didn't give him a fair chance then.
Post by Titus G
who had twenty one novels at that time. _Family Trade_ , the first of
the Merchant Princes series was OK but I never bothered with the second.
I liked the first two, but didn't like where he took the story after
that. His writing was as good as ever, but the story line became
actively unpleasant for me. Then, the length of the series seemed to
grow factorially, and I quit.
Post by Titus G
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Collection -  Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for the
ones I haven’t read before]
I look forward to hearing about this.
I am not sure if I do because I do not know if Simak will stand the test
of time. In recent years, I enjoyed a reread of _City_
Although this is one of his most highly acclaimed works, it's possibly
lowest on my list. I really like his pastoral stuff.
--
Michael F. Stemper
Psalm 82:1-4
Titus G
2021-07-03 01:26:34 UTC
Permalink
snippage
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Titus G
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Collection -  Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for the
ones I haven’t read before]
I look forward to hearing about this.
I am not sure if I do because I do not know if Simak will stand the test
of time. In recent years, I enjoyed a reread of _City_
Although this is one of his most highly acclaimed works, it's possibly
lowest on my list. I really like his pastoral stuff.
My problem is that I haven't read him since probably mid to late 1960's
so without a trip to Wikipedia or Goodreads, my memory is somewhat
absent. I had rated _The City_ three stars and _The Goblin Reservation_
and _Our Children's Children_ four stars but a re-read of OCC was not
finished so I am loath to re-read when there is so much new stuff being
currently written.
Tony Nance
2021-07-04 20:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
(++) The Hugo Winners Vol 5 (1980-1982) ed. by Asimov (I read
this off and on between the previous novels)
I'm going through the Hugo collections at the moment. However, what
I have does not include 4 or 5, but skips right from 3 to "More".
Post by Tony Nance
(+++) The Best of C.L. Moore
This is on my "to buy" list. I picked up my first solo Moore about two
weeks ago. I've read lots of stuff that she and Kuttner co-wrote.
If you've read the Kuttner&Moore collection "The Two-Handed Engine",
be aware that there is some overlap with "The Best of C.L. Moore".
For solo Moore, I recommend the Jorel of Joiry stories, or the
Northwest Smith stories. The former are collected in one volume;
I don't know about the latter.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
(+ - - -) Iron Sunrise - Stross
If you can ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, this was…okay.
If you can’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, you give some
minuses. I couldn’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect. Sheesh.
Your loss, but we've always viewed Stross differently. Have you tried
"Merchant Families" books?
It is indeed my loss, since he's written so much stuff. I do have The Family
Trade - it is in the pile to sell/give away, but it's still here. I could try it, but
my recollection is that many here (including you perhaps?) think that series
goes the wrong direction during or after the second one.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
(++) Dragon’s Egg - Forward
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain,
very similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories
(which I greatly enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there
hasn’t been much commentary here over the years on his other works.
What should I try next?
I was impressed with the writing in this, so I picked up some actual
(pop) science that he wrote. Could not stand it. He must have made a
real effort to have carried off _Dragon's Egg_ so well.
Interesting - thanks.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Collection - Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for the ones I haven’t read before]
I look forward to hearing about this.
It was good! Many of the stories here are of his "pastoral" variety.
I need to track down some his novels I've missed.

Tony
Michael F. Stemper
2021-07-04 21:42:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
(++) The Hugo Winners Vol 5 (1980-1982) ed. by Asimov (I read
this off and on between the previous novels)
I'm going through the Hugo collections at the moment. However, what
I have does not include 4 or 5, but skips right from 3 to "More".
Post by Tony Nance
(+++) The Best of C.L. Moore
This is on my "to buy" list. I picked up my first solo Moore about two
weeks ago. I've read lots of stuff that she and Kuttner co-wrote.
If you've read the Kuttner&Moore collection "The Two-Handed Engine",
be aware that there is some overlap with "The Best of C.L. Moore".
For solo Moore, I recommend the Jorel of Joiry stories, or the
Northwest Smith stories. The former are collected in one volume;
I don't know about the latter.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
(+ - - -) Iron Sunrise - Stross
If you can ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, this was…okay.
If you can’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect, you give some
minuses. I couldn’t ignore the over-the-top-Nazis-in-space aspect. Sheesh.
Your loss, but we've always viewed Stross differently. Have you tried
"Merchant Families" books?
It is indeed my loss, since he's written so much stuff. I do have The Family
Trade - it is in the pile to sell/give away, but it's still here. I could try it, but
my recollection is that many here (including you perhaps?) think that series
goes the wrong direction during or after the second one.
I have certainly said that here.
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Collection - Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for the ones I haven’t read before]
I look forward to hearing about this.
It was good! Many of the stories here are of his "pastoral" variety.
Glad to hear it. I just started on _So Bright the Vision_ this
afternoon, due to one of James' posts.
--
Michael F. Stemper
87.3% of all statistics are made up by the person giving them.
Michael F. Stemper
2021-07-05 21:40:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Your loss, but we've always viewed Stross differently. Have you tried
"Merchant Families" books?
It is indeed my loss, since he's written so much stuff. I do have The Family
Trade - it is in the pile to sell/give away, but it's still here. I could try it, but
my recollection is that many here (including you perhaps?) think that series
goes the wrong direction during or after the second one.
I have certainly said that here.
But I will point out that _The Family Trade_, read stand-alone, is a
good near-future story. (It also has the distinction of being the
first SF I've read in which a cell phone was important to events.)
--
Michael F. Stemper
This post contains greater than 95% post-consumer bytes by weight.
Titus G
2021-07-19 03:13:36 UTC
Permalink
snip
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Collection - Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for
the ones I haven’t read before]
I look forward to hearing about this.
It was good! Many of the stories here are of his "pastoral" variety.
Glad to hear it. I just started on _So Bright the Vision_ this
afternoon, due to one of James' posts.
Did you read all four?
My favourites were Leg.Forst and So Bright the Vision with the other two
pretty ordinary. As so many seemed to be in those days, they are 'shaggy
dog stories'.
Michael F. Stemper
2021-07-26 18:20:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
snip
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Collection - Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for
the ones I haven’t read before]
I look forward to hearing about this.
It was good! Many of the stories here are of his "pastoral" variety.
Glad to hear it. I just started on _So Bright the Vision_ this
afternoon, due to one of James' posts.
Did you read all four?
Yup.
Post by Titus G
My favourites were Leg.Forst
I got that "Leg." was short for "legendary", but never did figure out
what "Forst" was.
Post by Titus G
and So Bright the Vision with the other two
pretty ordinary.
I was intrigued by the way that "The Golden Bugs" started out feeling
like "The Big Front Yard" and then went in a completely different
direction.

It was unusual for Simak to portray aliens who didn't have our best
interests at heart, too.
--
Michael F. Stemper
If it isn't running programs and it isn't fusing atoms, it's just
bending space.
Titus G
2021-07-27 01:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Titus G
snip
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Tony Nance
Collection - Over the River & Through the Woods - Simak [just for
the ones I haven’t read before]
I look forward to hearing about this.
It was good! Many of the stories here are of his "pastoral" variety.
Glad to hear it. I just started on _So Bright the Vision_ this
afternoon, due to one of James' posts.
Did you read all four?
Yup.
Post by Titus G
My favourites were Leg.Forst
I got that "Leg." was short for "legendary", but never did figure out
what "Forst" was.
Foresight.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
Post by Titus G
  and So Bright the Vision with the other two
pretty ordinary.
I was intrigued by the way that "The Golden Bugs" started out feeling
like "The Big Front Yard" and then went in a completely different
direction.
Yes. Someone like Rafferty or perhaps Fredric Brown would have told that
story in 2 or 3 pages concentrating on the punchline.
Post by Michael F. Stemper
It was unusual for Simak to portray aliens who didn't have our best
interests at heart, too.
Titus G
2021-07-02 04:46:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
In appreciation of how I've benefitted from SF recs & info
here over the years, I have a low-level goal to add more
on-topic content. I’m aiming to do this type of post every
couple of months, with this being the third one.
(+++) Artificial Condition - Wells [Murderbot #2]
This was so enjoyable that I wished it was longer. (It is short -
You have your wish. _Network Effect_ is a novel of 300+ pages but I
definitely recommend reading Murderbot #3 and less importantly #4 before
you do even though they are short as well.
I think Network Effect can be read as a stand alone novel but as you
have already read 1 and 2, it might be best to follow publication order.
Post by Tony Nance
maybe even novella length.) In this second entry of the series,
self-named Murderbot investigates the incident that led to it
becoming a self-governing entity; and it agrees to a specific
short-term contract with humans along the way. It also gets
to know the AI persona of a research ship - great interactions
there. There’s wonderful internal dialogue, the right amount
(and right kind) of snark, and it’s very enjoyable to observe
humanity through Murderbot’s eyes while seeing Murderbot’s
own reactions. Of course I’m looking forward to reading the
3rd one.
Tony Nance
2021-07-04 21:01:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Titus G
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
In appreciation of how I've benefitted from SF recs & info
here over the years, I have a low-level goal to add more
on-topic content. I’m aiming to do this type of post every
couple of months, with this being the third one.
(+++) Artificial Condition - Wells [Murderbot #2]
This was so enjoyable that I wished it was longer. (It is short -
You have your wish. _Network Effect_ is a novel of 300+ pages but I
definitely recommend reading Murderbot #3 and less importantly #4 before
you do even though they are short as well.
I think Network Effect can be read as a stand alone novel but as you
have already read 1 and 2, it might be best to follow publication order.
Thanks - I'll definitely stick with publication order here. Looking forward
to the next one for sure.

Tony
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2021-07-02 09:50:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
(++) The Iron Khan - Williams [Inspector Chen #5]
Although the happenings are rather dark and serious, somehow
I’d classify this series as light and fun. It’s almost certainly due
to the characters’ personalities, mindsets, and approaches.
Inspector Chen is a human detective on Earth who often works
for Heaven, and also ends up working with a demon from Hell
on some rather thorny cases. As the series rolls on, there is a
lot of world-building and development of characters. The
characters are observant and often have the type of internal
commentary and self-questioning many of us do. There is a 6th
one “Morningstar”, but it’s self-published and very hard to track
down - I have done some initial digging and not turned up a
successful way to get it.
Liz will happily trade £ for it the ebook you email her, which is how I
got it. Details at https://mevennen.livejournal.com/939303.html - her
email's in a response from her there.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted"
-- Bertrand Russell
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2021-07-02 09:52:37 UTC
Permalink
On 2 Jul 2021 at 10:50:21 BST, "Jaimie Vandenbergh"
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
Post by Tony Nance
(++) The Iron Khan - Williams [Inspector Chen #5]
Although the happenings are rather dark and serious, somehow
I’d classify this series as light and fun. It’s almost certainly due
to the characters’ personalities, mindsets, and approaches.
Inspector Chen is a human detective on Earth who often works
for Heaven, and also ends up working with a demon from Hell
on some rather thorny cases. As the series rolls on, there is a
lot of world-building and development of characters. The
characters are observant and often have the type of internal
commentary and self-questioning many of us do. There is a 6th
one “Morningstar”, but it’s self-published and very hard to track
down - I have done some initial digging and not turned up a
successful way to get it.
Liz will happily trade £ for it the ebook you email her, which is how I
Icepick in head moment during editing there...
"Liz will happily trade £ for the ebook if you email her".
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
got it. Details at https://mevennen.livejournal.com/939303.html - her
email's in a response from her there.
Cheers - Jaimie
--
I think perhaps the most important problem is that we
are trying to understand the fundamental workings of
the universe via a language devised for telling one
another when the best fruit is.
-- Terry Pratchett
James Nicoll
2021-07-01 14:08:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain, very
similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories (which I greatly
enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there hasn’t been much
commentary here over the years on his other works. What should I try next?
The Flight of the Dragonfly aka Rocheworld.
Maybe Saturn Rukh.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Steve Coltrin
2021-07-01 15:25:02 UTC
Permalink
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain, very
similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories (which I greatly
enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there hasn’t been much
commentary here over the years on his other works. What should I try next?
The Flight of the Dragonfly aka Rocheworld.
Maybe Saturn Rukh.
Absolutely not _Camelot 30K_.
--
Steve Coltrin ***@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press
Tony Nance
2021-07-01 18:27:01 UTC
Permalink
begin fnord
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain, very
similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories (which I greatly
enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there hasn’t been much
commentary here over the years on his other works. What should I try next?
The Flight of the Dragonfly aka Rocheworld.
Maybe Saturn Rukh.
Absolutely not _Camelot 30K_.
Thanks - I actually held Camelot 30K in my hands at a used book store many
years ago, and something about it said "put me down". I don't remember any
details at this long remove, but I'm not feeling the urge to pursue any either.

Tony
Tony Nance
2021-07-01 18:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain, very
similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories (which I greatly
enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there hasn’t been much
commentary here over the years on his other works. What should I try next?
The Flight of the Dragonfly aka Rocheworld.
Maybe Saturn Rukh.
Thank you.
- Tony
Moriarty
2021-07-01 21:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
In appreciation of how I've benefitted from SF recs & info here over the years, I have a low-level goal to add more on-topic content. I’m aiming to do this type of post every couple of months, with this being the third one.
I think there are no spoilers this time, not even minor ones. If something does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the book in question and is front-and-center.
“+” are good, and more “+” are better
“-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse
If ratings seem overrepresented on the + side overall, it’s because I’m pretty fortunate at avoiding unenjoyable books. This group helps a lot with that, which also inspires my low-level goal.
I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.
<snips>
Post by Tony Nance
(++) Dragon’s Egg - Forward
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain, very similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories (which I greatly enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there hasn’t been much commentary here over the years on his other works. What should I try next?
You could try the sequel, Starquake. I liked it well enough, though I'm lead to understand that Dragon's Egg is his best SF work. The criticism I've read of Forward says that he's at his best when he steers clear of people, as his characterisation is flat. I read Dragon's Egg maybe five years back and I remember almost nothing about the humans but pretty much everything about the aliens and the neutron star they live on. In fact the only thing about the humans I do remember well was the wonderful scene when the neutron star alien stood stock-still for three weeks on the human's hand, while the same experience passed in the blink of an eye for the human.

The aliens were COOL!

-Moriarty
Tony Nance
2021-07-04 20:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
Post by Tony Nance
Highlights and Lowlights - May&June 2021
In appreciation of how I've benefitted from SF recs & info here over the years, I have a low-level goal to add more on-topic content. I’m aiming to do this type of post every couple of months, with this being the third one.
I think there are no spoilers this time, not even minor ones. If something does seem spoiler-ish, it happens early in the book in question and is front-and-center.
“+” are good, and more “+” are better
“-“ are not good, and more “-“ are worse
If ratings seem overrepresented on the + side overall, it’s because I’m pretty fortunate at avoiding unenjoyable books. This group helps a lot with that, which also inspires my low-level goal.
I’m happy to answer questions about anything on the list.
<snips>
Post by Tony Nance
(++) Dragon’s Egg - Forward
I really enjoyed this. Very interesting ideas and setup. To my brain, very similar in tone and approach to Clement’s Mesklin stories (which I greatly enjoyed). This is the first Forward I’ve read and there hasn’t been much commentary here over the years on his other works. What should I try next?
You could try the sequel, Starquake. I liked it well enough, though I'm lead to understand that Dragon's Egg is his best SF work.
Cool - thanks.
Post by Moriarty
The criticism I've read of Forward says that he's at his best when he steers clear of people, as his characterisation is flat. I read Dragon's Egg maybe five years back and I remember almost nothing about the humans but pretty much everything about the aliens and the neutron star they live on.
Well, that fits Dragon's Egg, at least.
Post by Moriarty
In fact the only thing about the humans I do remember well was the wonderful scene when the neutron star alien stood stock-still for three weeks on the human's hand, while the same experience passed in the blink of an eye for the human. The aliens were COOL!
That was a cool scene, and the aliens were indeed cool.
- Tony
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