Place your bets

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

Staying in the EU is not an option. The EU doesn't actually WANT
Britain in the EU.

The Peeler

2018-09-22 22:15:44 UTC

On Sat, 22 Sep 2018 14:04:15 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

Staying in the EU is not an option. The EU doesn't actually WANT
Britain in the EU.

You are PROJECTING, yet AGAIN, poor gay anal Razovic! The EU doesn't want
you dumb fascist serbs in the EU! It's a fact!

--
tomcov about poor psychotic asshole Razovic:
"Assholes come
Assholes go
But the revd asshole goes on forever.
(and he speaks through it)"
MID: <83356bf8-8666-4f4f-ac9a-***@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>

Norman Wells

2018-09-22 21:08:59 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The first isn't necessarily an option. It's not clear that Article 50
permits withdrawal of a notification made under it. The Scots are
trying to clarify that, but whether the Court will entertain such a
purely hypothetical case remains to be seen. Courts generally don't.
They're there to decide actual cases with actual facts.

The present government won't propose it anyway. Nor will the Labour
Party, as far as their policy can be ascertained. They both 'respect
the decision of the people' in the referendum, you see, and are scared
stiff of any Leaver backlash alleging, quite correctly, that it would be
a betrayal of democracy.

The only option therefore, if no agreement is reached, is leaving
without a deal.

Post by Yellow
I see the Labour Party are also threatening to (try to) force an
election should Parliament reject any deal that does by some miracle end
up on the table - because that is exactly what we need at the point in
the proceedings.

They are the opposition. It's their job. But they'll have to do it
under the auspices of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, and will therefore
have to table a motion of no confidence in the government. That will
fail because there's nothing like such a motion to unite the party being
attacked and those who have a supply and confidence agreement with it,
who are in an overall majority in the Commons, who quite like that
position, and don't want to lose their jobs.

Nightjar

2018-09-23 08:21:23 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it would be
up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an application to
withdraw the notification. As they don't really want us to leave, thy
would probably accept. That might well result in the matter being going
to the ECJ, but not until after the fact.

Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50, would be to
apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That would require a
unanimous vote by the other member states, but is not impossible.

The present government won't propose it anyway. Nor will the Labour
Party, as far as their policy can be ascertained. They both 'respect
the decision of the people' in the referendum, you see, and are scared
stiff of any Leaver backlash alleging, quite correctly, that it would be
a betrayal of democracy...

Democracy is not about taking one vote and forever sticking by it. If
that were true, we would never change governments. Democracy is about
doing what the people want and the indication now is that staying is
more popular than leaving.

--
--

Colin Bignell

Norman Wells

2018-09-23 09:15:52 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it would be
up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an application to
withdraw the notification

Again, not necessarily. The scenario isn't contemplated in the Treaty,
so there is no mechanism to deal with it, which means that it may not be
permissible.

Anyway, why should the EU be able to decide whether or not to accept it?
What gives it any authority *not* to accept it? It didn't have any
authority to reject our original Article 50 notification, it just had to
accept it. So why should it be able to choose whether it accepts its
withdrawal?

Post by Nightjar
As they don't really want us to leave, thy
would probably accept. That might well result in the matter being going
to the ECJ, but not until after the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50, would be to
apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That would require a
unanimous vote by the other member states, but is not impossible.

Of course, but that would only be to conclude our leaving agreement, not
re-negotiate one that had been settled and agreed between the parties.

Some long-reaching decisions have to be taken that can't be altered
willy-nilly or on a whim. We don't elect a government for ever, but for
a (now) set period of 5 years, during which time we all agree that we
can't change what we decided. We know the rules, and we vote accordingly.

The rules for the referendum were also known before we voted. We knew
it was a big decision, one that will affect us, our families and our
children for decades to come, and we were told it was a once in a
generation choice we had to make. It's totally unreasonable that those
rules should now be thrown in the bin in even less time than we can
change the government.

That is exercising democracy, not denying it.

Nightjar

2018-09-23 11:24:15 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it would
be up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an application to
withdraw the notification

Again, not necessarily. The scenario isn't contemplated in the Treaty,
so there is no mechanism to deal with it, which means that it may not be
permissible....

Which would be up to the EJC to decide, but only after it happened.

--
--

Colin Bignell

Ian Jackson

2018-09-23 13:38:12 UTC

Post by Norman Wells
Some long-reaching decisions have to be taken that can't be altered
willy-nilly or on a whim. We don't elect a government for ever, but
for a (now) set period of 5 years, during which time we all agree that
we can't change what we decided. We know the rules, and we vote
accordingly.

Didn't you notice that we had one GE in 2015 - and another in 2017?

The 5 year 'set period' is now the normal max-min time between holding
elections, and one of the reasons it was introduced was to prevent the
incumbent government from calling snap elections at a lesser time simply
in order to 'get one over' on the opposition. However, as was the case
in 2017, if the incumbent is having problems remaining in effective
control, and things look like descending into chaos, then Parliament can
also authorise that an election be called. As it's pretty obvious that
the present situation is even worse than 2017, it looks like another
early election may be required. However, a possible alternative might be
to try to alleviate the cause of the Government's problems, ie by having
another vote (of some sort) on how - or even if - we are to proceed with
Brexit.

--
Ian

Norman Wells

2018-09-23 14:30:42 UTC

Didn't you notice that we had one GE in 2015 - and another in 2017?
The 5 year 'set period' is now the normal max-min time between holding
elections, and one of the reasons it was introduced was to prevent the
incumbent government from calling snap elections at a lesser time simply
in order to 'get one over' on the opposition. However, as was the case
in 2017, if the incumbent is having problems remaining in effective
control, and things look like descending into chaos, then Parliament can
also authorise that an election be called. As it's pretty obvious that
the present situation is even worse than 2017, it looks like another
early election may be required. However, a possible alternative might be
to try to alleviate the cause of the Government's problems, ie by having
another vote (of some sort) on how - or even if - we are to proceed with
Brexit.

The early election in 2017 only took place because that nice Mrs May
initiated it and got the governing party to agree because they thought
it in their interests. Labour had to go along with it because they
couldn't be seen to be ducking it.

It's unlikely the government will initiate another one now, with their
hands burnt, and the polls not showing quite the advantage that the ones
in 2017 did. So, the only option will be for the opposition to table a
motion of no confidence, in which they won't have the numbers to win.
That doesn't look very likely either then.

Perhaps you would tell us how *you* think an election will come about?

Pamela

2018-09-23 14:41:09 UTC

Post by Norman Wells
Some long-reaching decisions have to be taken that can't be
altered willy-nilly or on a whim. We don't elect a government for
ever, but for a (now) set period of 5 years, during which time we
all agree that we can't change what we decided. We know the
rules, and we vote accordingly.

Didn't you notice that we had one GE in 2015 - and another in
2017?
The 5 year 'set period' is now the normal max-min time between
holding elections, and one of the reasons it was introduced was to
prevent the incumbent government from calling snap elections at a
lesser time simply in order to 'get one over' on the opposition.
However, as was the case in 2017, if the incumbent is having
problems remaining in effective control, and things look like
descending into chaos, then Parliament can also authorise that an
election be called. As it's pretty obvious that the present
situation is even worse than 2017, it looks like another early
election may be required. However, a possible alternative might be
to try to alleviate the cause of the Government's problems, ie by
having another vote (of some sort) on how - or even if - we are to
proceed with Brexit.

As Brexit arguments get more heated, especially over the NI border,
the government could quite easily have no majority in a Commons
confidence vote leading to an early election.

If Theresa May wants to stay in power, she might find a referendum
on the terms of Brexit is a safer political bet.

All this is just as many sensible people predicted for a long time.
Unfortunately ultra-Brexiteers and ill informed commentators went
into a collective denial about it.

Norman Wells

2018-09-23 15:01:25 UTC

Post by Norman Wells
Some long-reaching decisions have to be taken that can't be
altered willy-nilly or on a whim. We don't elect a government for
ever, but for a (now) set period of 5 years, during which time we
all agree that we can't change what we decided. We know the
rules, and we vote accordingly.

Didn't you notice that we had one GE in 2015 - and another in
2017?
The 5 year 'set period' is now the normal max-min time between
holding elections, and one of the reasons it was introduced was to
prevent the incumbent government from calling snap elections at a
lesser time simply in order to 'get one over' on the opposition.
However, as was the case in 2017, if the incumbent is having
problems remaining in effective control, and things look like
descending into chaos, then Parliament can also authorise that an
election be called. As it's pretty obvious that the present
situation is even worse than 2017, it looks like another early
election may be required. However, a possible alternative might be
to try to alleviate the cause of the Government's problems, ie by
having another vote (of some sort) on how - or even if - we are to
proceed with Brexit.

As Brexit arguments get more heated, especially over the NI border,
the government could quite easily have no majority in a Commons
confidence vote leading to an early election.

What do you think the Conservative-DUP supply and *confidence* agreement
is about?

Do say.

Post by Pamela
If Theresa May wants to stay in power, she might find a referendum
on the terms of Brexit is a safer political bet.
All this is just as many sensible people predicted for a long time.
Unfortunately ultra-Brexiteers and ill informed commentators went
into a collective denial about it.

That's because the whole idea is a nonsense. If the terms are rejected,
what happens then? Why won't you say?

tim...

2018-10-10 18:40:36 UTC

Post by Norman Wells
Some long-reaching decisions have to be taken that can't be
altered willy-nilly or on a whim. We don't elect a government for
ever, but for a (now) set period of 5 years, during which time we
all agree that we can't change what we decided. We know the
rules, and we vote accordingly.

Didn't you notice that we had one GE in 2015 - and another in
2017?
The 5 year 'set period' is now the normal max-min time between
holding elections, and one of the reasons it was introduced was to
prevent the incumbent government from calling snap elections at a
lesser time simply in order to 'get one over' on the opposition.
However, as was the case in 2017, if the incumbent is having
problems remaining in effective control, and things look like
descending into chaos, then Parliament can also authorise that an
election be called. As it's pretty obvious that the present
situation is even worse than 2017, it looks like another early
election may be required. However, a possible alternative might be
to try to alleviate the cause of the Government's problems, ie by
having another vote (of some sort) on how - or even if - we are to
proceed with Brexit.

As Brexit arguments get more heated, especially over the NI border,
the government could quite easily have no majority in a Commons
confidence vote leading to an early election.

whatever the DUP do on the Brexit deal, they would never vote against May in
a confidence vote

they fear the IRA loving Corbyn getting in, even more than the Tories do

tim

Pamela

2018-09-23 12:31:26 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The first isn't necessarily an option.Â It's not clear that
Article 50 permits withdrawal of a notification made under it.Â
The Scots are trying to clarify that, but whether the Court will
entertain such a purely hypothetical case remains to be seen.Â
Courts generally don't. They're there to decide actual cases with
actual facts.

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it
would be up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an
application to withdraw the notification. As they don't really
want us to leave, thy would probably accept. That might well
result in the matter being going to the ECJ, but not until after
the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50, would
be to apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That would
require a unanimous vote by the other member states, but is not
impossible.

The EU is nothing but endlessly flexible about these things.
Hardcore Brexiteers are terrified that their temporary win is going
to get remedied and they demand our exit is rushed.

The present government won't propose it anyway.Â Nor will the
Labour Party, as far as their policy can be ascertained.Â They
both 'respect the decision of the people' in the referendum, you
see, and are scared stiff of any Leaver backlash alleging, quite
correctly, that it would be a betrayal of democracy...

Democracy is not about taking one vote and forever sticking by it.
If that were true, we would never change governments. Democracy is
about doing what the people want and the indication now is that
staying is more popular than leaving.

A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they would
probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding of the
Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media targetting.

Norman Wells

2018-09-23 14:19:16 UTC

Post by Pamela
Hardcore Brexiteers are terrified that their temporary win is going
to get remedied and they demand our exit is rushed.

Ah, another thing to add to your 'Brexiteers think' list you just keep
adding to.

Post by Pamela
A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most.

And another.

Post by Pamela
They know they would
probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding of the
Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media targetting.

And another.

All you're doing is confirming that Brexiteers know an awful lot and
have thought about an awful lot in connection with Brexit.

Which is why of course they came to the right conclusion.

Remainers' thinking and knowing don't seem to figure in your posts at all.

Possibly because they don't.

Ian Jackson

2018-09-23 14:38:12 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it
would be up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an
application to withdraw the notification. As they don't really
want us to leave, thy would probably accept. That might well
result in the matter being going to the ECJ, but not until after
the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50, would
be to apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That would
require a unanimous vote by the other member states, but is not
impossible.

The EU is nothing but endlessly flexible about these things.
Hardcore Brexiteers are terrified that their temporary win is going
to get remedied and they demand our exit is rushed.

The present government won't propose it anyway. Nor will the
Labour Party, as far as their policy can be ascertained. They
both 'respect the decision of the people' in the referendum, you
see, and are scared stiff of any Leaver backlash alleging, quite
correctly, that it would be a betrayal of democracy...

Democracy is not about taking one vote and forever sticking by it.
If that were true, we would never change governments. Democracy is
about doing what the people want and the indication now is that
staying is more popular than leaving.

A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they would
probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding of the
Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media targetting.

Personally, I doubt if the overspend was really necessary. Most of the
in-phoner Brexiteers that I hear seem fully convinced of the wisdom of
Brexit - and were probably convinced well before the referendum. Few
admit to having been last-minute converts to the dark side.

--
Ian

Nightjar

2018-09-23 15:56:46 UTC

...

Post by Pamela
A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they would
probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding of the
Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media targetting.

One of the Leave campaign directors has stated that they would not have
won without the slogan on the bus. Later surveys suggest that around one
third of those who voted to leave thought it would result in more money
going to the NHS.

They were also very lucky that the Mediterranean refugee crisis was at
its height. That gave some newspapers an opportunity to give the
impression that the EU could and would force us to take large numbers of
them, despite one of the opt-outs we have is to retain control over
non-EU citizens entering the UK from the EU.

--
--

Colin Bignell

harry

2018-09-24 05:55:44 UTC

Post by Nightjar
...

One of the Leave campaign directors has stated that they would not have
won without the slogan on the bus. Later surveys suggest that around one
third of those who voted to leave thought it would result in more money
going to the NHS.
They were also very lucky that the Mediterranean refugee crisis was at
its height. That gave some newspapers an opportunity to give the
impression that the EU could and would force us to take large numbers of
them, despite one of the opt-outs we have is to retain control over
non-EU citizens entering the UK from the EU.

If we were to remain, that's exactly what they would do.
Merkel just has to give these scum EUSSR passports.

Nightjar

2018-09-24 09:46:35 UTC

Post by harry

Post by Nightjar
...

One of the Leave campaign directors has stated that they would not have
won without the slogan on the bus. Later surveys suggest that around one
third of those who voted to leave thought it would result in more money
going to the NHS.
They were also very lucky that the Mediterranean refugee crisis was at
its height. That gave some newspapers an opportunity to give the
impression that the EU could and would force us to take large numbers of
them, despite one of the opt-outs we have is to retain control over
non-EU citizens entering the UK from the EU.

If we were to remain, that's exactly what they would do.
Merkel just has to give these scum EUSSR passports.

Brexiteer scare mongering.

To get an EU passport, they have to be an EU citizen. That is a long and
involved process. First, they have to be granted permanent right of
residence in the EU country concerned. Most will only get a temporary
right of stay, which does not count towards residency.

Having got a permanent right of residence, they have to be resident in
the country for a number of years. That varies from five (e.g. Belgium)
to ten years (e.g. Italy). Even then, citizenship is not automatic. The
applicant for Naturalisation also has to demonstrate that they have
integrated with the life and culture of the country, usually by
something like the UK Citizenship test.

--
--

Colin Bignell

Pamela

2018-09-24 10:48:34 UTC

Post by harry

Post by Nightjar
...

Post by Pamela
A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they
would probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal
overfunding of the Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian
social media targetting.

One of the Leave campaign directors has stated that they would
not have won without the slogan on the bus. Later surveys suggest
that around one third of those who voted to leave thought it
would result in more money going to the NHS.
They were also very lucky that the Mediterranean refugee crisis
was at its height. That gave some newspapers an opportunity to
give the impression that the EU could and would force us to take
large numbers of them, despite one of the opt-outs we have is to
retain control over non-EU citizens entering the UK from the EU.

If we were to remain, that's exactly what they would do.
Merkel just has to give these scum EUSSR passports.

Neither Merkel nor the EU issues passports.

tim...

2018-10-10 18:41:56 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it
would be up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an
application to withdraw the notification. As they don't really
want us to leave, thy would probably accept. That might well
result in the matter being going to the ECJ, but not until after
the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50, would
be to apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That would
require a unanimous vote by the other member states, but is not
impossible.

The EU is nothing but endlessly flexible about these things.
Hardcore Brexiteers are terrified that their temporary win is going
to get remedied and they demand our exit is rushed.

Democracy is not about taking one vote and forever sticking by it.
If that were true, we would never change governments. Democracy is
about doing what the people want and the indication now is that
staying is more popular than leaving.

A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they would
probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding of the
Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media targetting.

nonsense

its effect was a trivial item

tim

Ophelia

2018-10-10 19:14:43 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it
would be up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an
application to withdraw the notification. As they don't really
want us to leave, thy would probably accept. That might well
result in the matter being going to the ECJ, but not until after
the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50, would
be to apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That would
require a unanimous vote by the other member states, but is not
impossible.

The EU is nothing but endlessly flexible about these things.
Hardcore Brexiteers are terrified that their temporary win is going
to get remedied and they demand our exit is rushed.

Democracy is not about taking one vote and forever sticking by it.
If that were true, we would never change governments. Democracy is
about doing what the people want and the indication now is that
staying is more popular than leaving.

A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they would
probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding of the
Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media targetting.

nonsense

its effect was a trivial item

tim

==

It was indeed!

Pamela

2018-10-10 20:05:20 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The first isn't necessarily an option.Â It's not clear that
Article 50 permits withdrawal of a notification made under it.Â
The Scots are trying to clarify that, but whether the Court
will entertain such a purely hypothetical case remains to be
seen.Â Courts generally don't. They're there to decide actual
cases with actual facts.

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it
would be up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an
application to withdraw the notification. As they don't really
want us to leave, thy would probably accept. That might well
result in the matter being going to the ECJ, but not until after
the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50,
would be to apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That
would require a unanimous vote by the other member states, but
is not impossible.

The EU is nothing but endlessly flexible about these things.
Hardcore Brexiteers are terrified that their temporary win is
going to get remedied and they demand our exit is rushed.

The present government won't propose it anyway.Â Nor will the
Labour Party, as far as their policy can be ascertained.Â They
both 'respect the decision of the people' in the referendum,
you see, and are scared stiff of any Leaver backlash alleging,
quite correctly, that it would be a betrayal of democracy...

Democracy is not about taking one vote and forever sticking by
it. If that were true, we would never change governments.
Democracy is about doing what the people want and the indication
now is that staying is more popular than leaving.

A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they
would probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding
of the Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media
targetting.

nonsense
its effect was a trivial item
tim

Wake up. Tim. You're rigthing alleged wrongs from 3 weeks ago!

tim...

2018-10-11 09:42:18 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The first isn't necessarily an option.Â It's not clear that
Article 50 permits withdrawal of a notification made under it.Â
The Scots are trying to clarify that, but whether the Court
will entertain such a purely hypothetical case remains to be
seen.Â Courts generally don't. They're there to decide actual
cases with actual facts.

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it
would be up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an
application to withdraw the notification. As they don't really
want us to leave, thy would probably accept. That might well
result in the matter being going to the ECJ, but not until after
the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50,
would be to apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That
would require a unanimous vote by the other member states, but
is not impossible.

The EU is nothing but endlessly flexible about these things.
Hardcore Brexiteers are terrified that their temporary win is
going to get remedied and they demand our exit is rushed.

The present government won't propose it anyway.Â Nor will the
Labour Party, as far as their policy can be ascertained.Â They
both 'respect the decision of the people' in the referendum,
you see, and are scared stiff of any Leaver backlash alleging,
quite correctly, that it would be a betrayal of democracy...

Democracy is not about taking one vote and forever sticking by
it. If that were true, we would never change governments.
Democracy is about doing what the people want and the indication
now is that staying is more popular than leaving.

A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they
would probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding
of the Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media
targetting.

nonsense
its effect was a trivial item
tim

Wake up. Tim. You're rigthing alleged wrongs from 3 weeks ago!

I was on holiday

are people not allowed to go on holiday in your world?

tim

Pamela

2018-10-11 12:34:45 UTC

Post by tim...

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The first isn't necessarily an option.Â It's not clear that
Article 50 permits withdrawal of a notification made under it.Â
The Scots are trying to clarify that, but whether the Court
will entertain such a purely hypothetical case remains to be
seen.Â Courts generally don't. They're there to decide actual
cases with actual facts.

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it
would be up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an
application to withdraw the notification. As they don't really
want us to leave, thy would probably accept. That might well
result in the matter being going to the ECJ, but not until after
the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50,
would be to apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That
would require a unanimous vote by the other member states, but
is not impossible.

The EU is nothing but endlessly flexible about these things.
Hardcore Brexiteers are terrified that their temporary win is
going to get remedied and they demand our exit is rushed.

The present government won't propose it anyway.Â Nor will the
Labour Party, as far as their policy can be ascertained.Â They
both 'respect the decision of the people' in the referendum,
you see, and are scared stiff of any Leaver backlash alleging,
quite correctly, that it would be a betrayal of democracy...

Democracy is not about taking one vote and forever sticking by
it. If that were true, we would never change governments.
Democracy is about doing what the people want and the indication
now is that staying is more popular than leaving.

A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they
would probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding
of the Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media
targetting.

nonsense
its effect was a trivial item
tim

Wake up. Tim. You're rigthing alleged wrongs from 3 weeks ago!

I was on holiday
are people not allowed to go on holiday in your world?
tim

People who post to 3 week old post in a fast moving and high volume
newsgroup are crazy to think anyone is following the old thread.

Wake up, open your eyes and look at the dates.

tim...

2018-10-11 16:00:49 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The first isn't necessarily an option.Â It's not clear that
Article 50 permits withdrawal of a notification made under it.Â
The Scots are trying to clarify that, but whether the Court
will entertain such a purely hypothetical case remains to be
seen.Â Courts generally don't. They're there to decide actual
cases with actual facts.

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it
would be up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an
application to withdraw the notification. As they don't really
want us to leave, thy would probably accept. That might well
result in the matter being going to the ECJ, but not until after
the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50,
would be to apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That
would require a unanimous vote by the other member states, but
is not impossible.

The EU is nothing but endlessly flexible about these things.
Hardcore Brexiteers are terrified that their temporary win is
going to get remedied and they demand our exit is rushed.

The present government won't propose it anyway.Â Nor will the
Labour Party, as far as their policy can be ascertained.Â They
both 'respect the decision of the people' in the referendum,
you see, and are scared stiff of any Leaver backlash alleging,
quite correctly, that it would be a betrayal of democracy...

Democracy is not about taking one vote and forever sticking by
it. If that were true, we would never change governments.
Democracy is about doing what the people want and the indication
now is that staying is more popular than leaving.

A change of mind if what Brexiteers fear most. They know they
would probably not have won if it wasn't for illegal overfunding
of the Leave campaign, ably assisted by Russian social media
targetting.

nonsense
its effect was a trivial item
tim

Wake up. Tim. You're rigthing alleged wrongs from 3 weeks ago!

I was on holiday
are people not allowed to go on holiday in your world?
tim

People who post to 3 week old post in a fast moving and high volume
newsgroup are crazy to think anyone is following the old thread.

ah diddums

tim

harry

2018-09-24 05:50:29 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it would be
up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an application to
withdraw the notification. As they don't really want us to leave, thy
would probably accept. That might well result in the matter being going
to the ECJ, but not until after the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50, would be to
apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That would require a
unanimous vote by the other member states, but is not impossible.

Which "indication" is that?
Making stuff up again. As usual.

Nightjar

2018-09-24 09:57:07 UTC

Post by harry

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it would be
up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an application to
withdraw the notification. As they don't really want us to leave, thy
would probably accept. That might well result in the matter being going
to the ECJ, but not until after the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50, would be to
apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That would require a
unanimous vote by the other member states, but is not impossible.

Which "indication" is that?

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-polls/britain-would-now-vote-to-stay-in-the-eu-new-poll-shows-idUSKCN1LK2U4

--
--

Colin Bignell

2018-09-24 08:35:00 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

The fact that Article 50 is silent on the matter manes that it would be
up to the EU to decide whether or not to accept an application to
withdraw the notification. As they don't really want us to leave, thy
would probably accept. That might well result in the matter being going
to the ECJ, but not until after the fact.
Another option, not discussed but definitely in Article 50, would be to
apply to the EU to extend the two year period. That would require a
unanimous vote by the other member states, but is not impossible.

I like to think of it this way, which even Brexiters with their rather
more restricted intellectual capacity might just about understand:

Little Johnny goes into the woods and comes back with a basket of
mushrooms. "Lovely!" says his mother. She invites the extended family
around for a meal. Enthusiastically they slurp the amazing soup, all
agreeing that it is the most amazing food they've ever tasted.

But then some of the party are violently sick. They're throwing up
everywhere. But Johnny's mother is offended and refuses to allow
~any~one to leave until they've eaten her soup. "Out of the question!"
she announces. "You've got to eat up; there's no other choice!"

But people are dying now. Still mother says "Keep eating! You don't
have any other decision to make!"

Finally, all are dead, including Johnny. But mother is not convinced.
Being a "family hold back" kind of gal, she waited until all her
guests had been fed, then ladled a huge portion of soup into a bowl.

Her last supper.

MM

Nightjar

2018-09-23 08:12:19 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?
I see the Labour Party are also threatening to (try to) force an
election should Parliament reject any deal that does by some miracle end
up on the table - because that is exactly what we need at the point in
the proceedings.

The political commentators are saying that May is going to have to
choose between a general election and a referendum. They think the
latter is more likely. Polls suggest that current opinion on that is 48%
stay 44% leave.

--
--

Colin Bignell

The Todal

2018-09-23 09:57:24 UTC

If Theresa May thinks that the issue can be solved by a general
election, can anyone figure out how that could work?

Ted Heath held an election on the slogan "Who Governs The Country?"
hoping for the electorate to back him against the power of the unions.
The electorate didn't back him and voted Labour in.

Would Theresa May be campaigning for the electorate to back her Chequers
Plan, even though it's largely unworkable? Would a vote for the LibDems
be interpreted as a vote for Remain?

Nightjar

2018-09-23 11:20:28 UTC

If Theresa May thinks that the issue can be solved by a general
election, can anyone figure out how that could work?...

I don't think any of them are suggesting it would be her choice. They
seem to think that, if she refuses a referendum, that would give enough
support to have one forced upon her.

Post by The Todal
Ted Heath held an election on the slogan "Who Governs The Country?"
hoping for the electorate to back him against the power of the unions.
The electorate didn't back him and voted Labour in.
Would Theresa May be campaigning for the electorate to back her Chequers
Plan, even though it's largely unworkable? Would a vote for the LibDems
be interpreted as a vote for Remain?

They would probably hope so. A lot of people voted remain.

--
--

Colin Bignell

2018-09-23 13:41:56 UTC

Post by The Todal
If Theresa May thinks that the issue can be solved by a general
election, can anyone figure out how that could work?

I don't much like or admire Mrs May or her policies, except for one
thing. She does seem to have extraordinary grit and determination in the
face of adversity. I couldn't conceive of staying in her position for
more than a few weeks. It must be awful.

The Todal

2018-09-23 09:53:13 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

We'll end up with one extension of time after another, staying in the EU
but with a clear commitment to leaving, and this could go on for five
years or more.

Speaking as someone who has been involved in many court cases, it
reminds me of the lawyers who still haven't prepared their evidence and
their arguments and keep asking the judge for yet another extension of time.

I don't think you should blame the Labour Party for an autumn election.
According to the Times, the Tories are pressing for one.

Theresa May’s aides have secretly begun contingency planning for a snap
election in November to save the Brexit talks and her job after EU
leaders rebuffed the prime minister’s Chequers plan.

Two senior members of May’s Downing Street political operation responded
to her summit humiliation in Salzburg last week by “war-gaming” an
autumn vote to win public backing for a new plan.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/theresa-mays-team-plot-snap-election-to-save-brexit-7gs8nxs2h

Pamela

2018-09-23 12:41:56 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

We'll end up with one extension of time after another, staying in
the EU but with a clear commitment to leaving, and this could go
on for five years or more.

That outcome is quite likely but it was keep open the rift amongst
politicians and also amongst the public. To avoid a poisonous
atmosphere in the UK for decades to come, a referendum on the terms
should provide reassurance that the deal we reach is acceptable to
the majority.

Post by The Todal
Speaking as someone who has been involved in many court cases, it
reminds me of the lawyers who still haven't prepared their
evidence and their arguments and keep asking the judge for yet
another extension of time.

Post by Yellow
I see the Labour Party are also threatening to (try to) force an
election should Parliament reject any deal that does by some
miracle end up on the table - because that is exactly what we
need at the point in the proceedings.

I don't think you should blame the Labour Party for an autumn
election. According to the Times, the Tories are pressing for one.
Theresa Mays aides have secretly begun contingency planning for a
snap election in November to save the Brexit talks and her job
after EU leaders rebuffed the prime ministers Chequers plan.

It was always short-sighted for people, like some extremely adamant
posters here, to claim there was absolutely no chance of an early
election. It was always a possibility. Those who denied it show
poor political judgement.

Post by The Todal
Two senior members of Mays Downing Street political operation
responded to her summit humiliation in Salzburg last week by
"war-gaming" an autumn vote to win public backing for a new plan.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/theresa-mays-team-
plot-snap-election-to-save-brexit-7gs8nxs2h

Humiliation is what the papers called it but it was really just a
simple pushback, admittedly at an important time to Theresa May, to
extract more concessions.

For weeks the EU had signalled Chequers wasn't good enough but
Theresa May nevertheless tried her best to push it through at
Salzburg.

It's nothing like as bad as all the times the EU repeateadly
outmanoeuvered Greece when it tried to default on its debt.

Norman Wells

2018-09-23 14:35:04 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

We'll end up with one extension of time after another, staying in
the EU but with a clear commitment to leaving, and this could go
on for five years or more.

And if it isn't, what then?

Stop swerving and tell us for once.

Pamela

2018-09-23 14:44:51 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

We'll end up with one extension of time after another, staying
in the EU but with a clear commitment to leaving, and this could
go on for five years or more.

That outcome is quite likely but it was keep open the rift
amongst politicians and also amongst the public. To avoid a
poisonous atmosphere in the UK for decades to come, a referendum
on the terms should provide reassurance that the deal we reach is
acceptable to the majority.

And if it isn't, what then?
Stop swerving and tell us for once.

Sorry if my typo was confusing. Try this:

That delayed outcome mentioned by Todal is quite likely but it would
keep open the rift amongst politicians and also amongst the public.

To avoid a poisonous atmosphere for decades to come, a referendum on
the terms would provide evidence that the deal we reach is
acceptable to the majority.

Norman Wells

2018-09-23 14:56:46 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

We'll end up with one extension of time after another, staying
in the EU but with a clear commitment to leaving, and this could
go on for five years or more.

That outcome is quite likely but it was keep open the rift
amongst politicians and also amongst the public. To avoid a
poisonous atmosphere in the UK for decades to come, a referendum
on the terms should provide reassurance that the deal we reach is
acceptable to the majority.

And if it isn't, what then?
Stop swerving and tell us for once.

That delayed outcome mentioned by Todal is quite likely but it would
keep open the rift amongst politicians and also amongst the public.
To avoid a poisonous atmosphere for decades to come, a referendum on
the terms would provide evidence that the deal we reach is
acceptable to the majority.

And if it isn't, what then?

Stop swerving and tell us for once.

tim...

2018-10-10 18:47:04 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

We'll end up with one extension of time after another, staying in
the EU but with a clear commitment to leaving, and this could go
on for five years or more.

Post by Yellow
I see the Labour Party are also threatening to (try to) force an
election should Parliament reject any deal that does by some
miracle end up on the table - because that is exactly what we
need at the point in the proceedings.

I don't think you should blame the Labour Party for an autumn
election. According to the Times, the Tories are pressing for one.
Theresa May's aides have secretly begun contingency planning for a
snap election in November to save the Brexit talks and her job
after EU leaders rebuffed the prime minister's Chequers plan.

Post by The Todal
Two senior members of May's Downing Street political operation
responded to her summit humiliation in Salzburg last week by
"war-gaming" an autumn vote to win public backing for a new plan.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/theresa-mays-team-
plot-snap-election-to-save-brexit-7gs8nxs2h

Humiliation is what the papers called it but it was really just a
simple pushback, admittedly at an important time to Theresa May, to
extract more concessions.
For weeks the EU had signalled Chequers wasn't good enough but
Theresa May nevertheless tried her best to push it through at
Salzburg.
It's nothing like as bad as all the times the EU repeateadly
outmanoeuvered Greece when it tried to default on its debt.

except that it's inevitable that Greece will eventually default on the debt

all that the EU negotiations did is make sure that the Greek population
suffers before that happens

tim

Norman Wells

2018-09-23 13:37:41 UTC

Post by The Todal
I don't think you should blame the Labour Party for an autumn election.
According to the Times, the Tories are pressing for one.
Theresa May’s aides have secretly begun contingency planning for a snap
election in November to save the Brexit talks and her job after EU
leaders rebuffed the prime minister’s Chequers plan.
Two senior members of May’s Downing Street political operation responded
to her summit humiliation in Salzburg last week by “war-gaming” an
autumn vote to win public backing for a new plan.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/theresa-mays-team-plot-snap-election-to-save-brexit-7gs8nxs2h

Strange then that the article concludes:

"A Downing Street source said 'It is categorically not true that No 10
is planning for an election or has held any meetings to discuss one'".

'War-gaming' is only another word for 'considering possibilities', but
it sounds so much more exciting to the unsophisticated, doesn't it?

JNugent

2018-09-26 10:11:29 UTC

Post by The Todal
I don't think you should blame the Labour Party for an autumn
election. According to the Times, the Tories are pressing for one.
Theresa May’s aides have secretly begun contingency planning for a
snap election in November to save the Brexit talks and her job after
EU leaders rebuffed the prime minister’s Chequers plan.
Two senior members of May’s Downing Street political operation
responded to her summit humiliation in Salzburg last week by
“war-gaming” an autumn vote to win public backing for a new plan.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/theresa-mays-team-plot-snap-election-to-save-brexit-7gs8nxs2h

"A Downing Street source said 'It is categorically not true that No 10
is planning for an election or has held any meetings to discuss one'".
'War-gaming' is only another word for 'considering possibilities', but
it sounds so much more exciting to the unsophisticated, doesn't it?

No future election will take place on today's corrupt Labour
Parliamentary boundaries.

The Todal

2018-10-18 22:07:57 UTC

Post by Yellow
What will happen? Stay in the EU or leave without a deal?

We'll end up with one extension of time after another, staying in the EU
but with a clear commitment to leaving, and this could go on for five
years or more.
Speaking as someone who has been involved in many court cases, it
reminds me of the lawyers who still haven't prepared their evidence and
their arguments and keep asking the judge for yet another extension of time.

I believe that current events are supporting my prediction. The jargon
is "extend the transition period" but that's just spin, to give the
impression that negotiations are making progress.

I don't suggest that Labour would do any better if it was in charge of
the negotiations. But at the moment our government seems intent on
making announcements to placate the British people. The Europeans aren't
impressed by any of our sabre-rattling. They actually hold all the cards
even if we try to pretend otherwise.

Omega

2018-09-23 11:12:53 UTC

I have no idea why you have applied a condition in your question as to
whether we will leave or not, "leave without a deal"?

To answer your question from my view, there is no mechanism at present
for us to stay unless that was to change somehow so therefore we will
leave. We gave our notice, eighteen months ago, the clock is ticking
away the two years we were required to wait then we will be rid the EU.

As for the Labour party forcing an election? How? If they had that
power then why would they wait? Simply not going to happen!

If we leave without a 'deal' it will soon follow once we have left, when
those plotting Nazis in Europe cop the backlash from their very own
belligerence! They will crawl!

omega

Ophelia

2018-09-23 16:36:30 UTC

Shitsack Moishe Goldberg

2018-09-23 18:02:24 UTC

I have no idea why you have applied a condition in your question as to
whether we will leave or not, "leave without a deal"?
To answer your question from my view, there is no mechanism at present
for us to stay unless that was to change somehow so therefore we will
leave. We gave our notice, eighteen months ago, the clock is ticking
away the two years we were required to wait then we will be rid the EU.
As for the Labour party forcing an election? How? If they had that
power then why would they wait? Simply not going to happen!
If we leave without a 'deal' it will soon follow once we have left, when
those plotting Nazis in Europe cop the backlash from their very own
belligerence! They will crawl!
omega
==
Well said!

Well k00ked!

Ophelia

2018-09-23 18:08:28 UTC

I have no idea why you have applied a condition in your question as to
whether we will leave or not, "leave without a deal"?
To answer your question from my view, there is no mechanism at present
for us to stay unless that was to change somehow so therefore we will
leave. We gave our notice, eighteen months ago, the clock is ticking
away the two years we were required to wait then we will be rid the EU.
As for the Labour party forcing an election? How? If they had that
power then why would they wait? Simply not going to happen!
If we leave without a 'deal' it will soon follow once we have left, when
those plotting Nazis in Europe cop the backlash from their very own
belligerence! They will crawl!
omega
==
Well said!

Well k00ked!

==

Is that you shits??? Shitting yourself again???

Shitsack Moishe Goldberg

2018-09-23 18:32:45 UTC

I have no idea why you have applied a condition in your question as to
whether we will leave or not, "leave without a deal"?
To answer your question from my view, there is no mechanism at present
for us to stay unless that was to change somehow so therefore we will
leave. We gave our notice, eighteen months ago, the clock is ticking
away the two years we were required to wait then we will be rid the EU.
As for the Labour party forcing an election? How? If they had that
power then why would they wait? Simply not going to happen!
If we leave without a 'deal' it will soon follow once we have left, when
those plotting Nazis in Europe cop the backlash from their very own
belligerence! They will crawl!
omega
==
Well said!

Well k00ked!
==
Is that you shits??? Shitting yourself again???

Is that you Ophailure? K00king again?

Ophelia

2018-09-23 19:48:47 UTC

I have no idea why you have applied a condition in your question as to
whether we will leave or not, "leave without a deal"?
To answer your question from my view, there is no mechanism at present
for us to stay unless that was to change somehow so therefore we will
leave. We gave our notice, eighteen months ago, the clock is ticking
away the two years we were required to wait then we will be rid the EU.
As for the Labour party forcing an election? How? If they had that
power then why would they wait? Simply not going to happen!
If we leave without a 'deal' it will soon follow once we have left, when
those plotting Nazis in Europe cop the backlash from their very own
belligerence! They will crawl!
omega
==
Well said!

Well k00ked!
==
Is that you shits??? Shitting yourself again???

Is that you Ophailure? K00king again?
==

Piss off RACIST!!!

Shitsack Moishe Goldberg

2018-09-23 20:23:27 UTC

I have no idea why you have applied a condition in your question as to
whether we will leave or not, "leave without a deal"?
To answer your question from my view, there is no mechanism at present
for us to stay unless that was to change somehow so therefore we will
leave. We gave our notice, eighteen months ago, the clock is ticking
away the two years we were required to wait then we will be rid the EU.
As for the Labour party forcing an election? How? If they had that
power then why would they wait? Simply not going to happen!
If we leave without a 'deal' it will soon follow once we have left, when
those plotting Nazis in Europe cop the backlash from their very own
belligerence! They will crawl!
omega
==
Well said!

Well k00ked!
==
Is that you shits??? Shitting yourself again???

Is that you Ophailure? K00king again?
==
Piss off RACIST!!!

Fuck orf K00K!!!

The Peeler

2018-09-23 21:32:51 UTC

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 13:23:27 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass

Post by Ophelia
Is that you shits??? Shitting yourself again???

Is that you Ophailure? K00king again?
==
Piss off RACIST!!!

Fuck orf K00K!!!

She has the right, like EVERYONE ELSE, to piss and shit all over you,
whenever she feels like it, dreckserb Razovic!

--
Nefesh about stinking serb peasant Razovic: "All good people shit on the
Revd"
MID: <8560bbb2-d446-4ba9-a3e7-***@c20g2000prc.googlegroups.com>

The Peeler

2018-09-23 20:13:45 UTC

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 11:32:45 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass

Post by Ophelia
==
Is that you shits??? Shitting yourself again???

Is that you Ophailure? K00king again?

Is that you Razoshit? Getting slapped around by a girl AGAIN? LOL

--
The top 5 truths about poor dumb Razovic, our colostomy bag wearing resident
psychopath, aka "The Rectum":

the desperate psycho can't SLEEP anymore,
she can't get out of the house anymore,
she got NOBODY to talk to anymore,
she can't FUCK anymore,
she got no life outside Usenet AT ALL!

The Peeler

2018-09-23 19:09:02 UTC

On Sun, 23 Sep 2018 11:02:24 -0700, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass

Post by Ophelia
omega
==
Well said!

Well k00ked!

Psychosis in full swing again, poor psycho? LOL

--
"The Jews" to poor dumb anal Razovic:
"Nobody here gets tired of exposing you for the idiot you are, Gordon!"
MID: <***@4ax.com>

R. Mark Clayton

2018-09-23 17:37:24 UTC

Of course Labour are trying to 'force' an election - it's their raison d'etre in opposition and the Tories are already in a minority, seen as incompetent and not very popular.

OTOH a Labour government under Corbyn and McDonkey would be out of a very hot frying pan and into the furnace.

The biggest disaster of all for the UK would be a vote of some sort on the deal and the result was still Leave, because like turkeys those of similarly limited intellectual ability will vote for Xmas because Boris and Nigel tell them there will be a great feast...

Norman Wells

2018-09-23 18:17:07 UTC