Discussion:
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2013-06-25 16:20:00 UTC
Permalink
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html

So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?

Lynn
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2013-06-25 16:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
Lynn
Hmm. I thought that "Hang in there until Nook sales carry the company" was
a bit optimistic. Though I'm not sure why Nook is not doing better.

They were already in a major round of store closings anyway. This means
the Richland Mall store is a sure goner, which will take down the whole mall...
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
J. Clarke
2013-06-25 17:02:34 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@loft.tnolan.com
says...
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
Lynn
Hmm. I thought that "Hang in there until Nook sales carry the company" was
a bit optimistic. Though I'm not sure why Nook is not doing better.
Mostly I think because it's seen as a "me-too" product--a Nook is a kind
of kindle, like Scotties is a kind of kleenex.
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
They were already in a major round of store closings anyway. This means
the Richland Mall store is a sure goner, which will take down the whole mall...
Yeah. One of the local strip malls is likely to go with our B&N. Of
course that mall alreaady "went" in a sense--when I moved here it was a
nice indoor mall with some somewhat interesting architecture--in the mid
'80s it got turned into a strip mall.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 17:53:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chap
ter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
Lynn
Hmm. I thought that "Hang in there until Nook sales carry the
company" was a bit optimistic. Though I'm not sure why Nook is
not doing better.
Mostly I think because it's seen as a "me-too" product--a Nook
is a kind of kindle, like Scotties is a kind of kleenex.
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
They were already in a major round of store closings anyway.
This
means
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
the Richland Mall store is a sure goner, which will take down
the whole mall...
Yeah. One of the local strip malls is likely to go with our
B&N. Of course that mall alreaady "went" in a sense--when I
moved here it was a nice indoor mall with some somewhat
interesting architecture--in the mid '80s it got turned into a
strip mall.
Maybe they'll survive by going from strip mall to strip club.
There's always money in boobies.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Andrew Plotkin
2013-06-25 17:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
Lynn
Hmm. I thought that "Hang in there until Nook sales carry the company" was
a bit optimistic. Though I'm not sure why Nook is not doing better.
Apple owns the high end of the e-reader market, and Amazon owns the
low end. Can't go fancier than the one or cheaper than the other, and
apparently there's no room in between them.

However, brick and mortar books stores remain viable if you live where
there are lots of reading people. This seems to be what the article is
saying: B&N can do well if it discards the Nook division *and* reduces
the store count. Its (university-affiliated) locations in Cambridge MA
will certainly remain open.

--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
Andrew Plotkin
2013-06-25 19:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Plotkin
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Hmm. I thought that "Hang in there until Nook sales carry the company" was
a bit optimistic. Though I'm not sure why Nook is not doing better.
Apple owns the high end of the e-reader market, and Amazon owns the
low end. Can't go fancier than the one or cheaper than the other, and
apparently there's no room in between them.
And apparently B&N half-agrees with me: "Barnes & Noble now says it
[...] will cease manufacturing the Nook HD and Nook HD+, effective
immediately... the company says it will continue to produce its line
of E-Ink reading devices in-house."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/25/nook_tablets_discontinued/

Good luck, I guess.

--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
J. Clarke
2013-06-25 16:54:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that sell new
books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are several used book
stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt that it's going to be
replaced any time soon just because the economy is so bad that nobody's
going to be able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking up new
titles though.

But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--when you can watch movies on the same
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 17:55:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-
chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that
sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are
several used book stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt
that it's going to be replaced any time soon just because the
economy is so bad that nobody's going to be able to come up with
the money to start a locally owned store. Maybe one of the used
book stores will start picking up new titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2013-06-25 17:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-
chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that
sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are
several used book stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt
that it's going to be replaced any time soon just because the
economy is so bad that nobody's going to be able to come up with
the money to start a locally owned store. Maybe one of the used
book stores will start picking up new titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
I figure independents are taking up the slack left by Borders' absence.
--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1466291532/
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 18:02:40 UTC
Permalink
On 2013-06-25 13:55:51 -0400, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-
chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me
that sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop.
There are several used book stores. If Barnes & Noble goes
away I doubt that it's going to be replaced any time soon just
because the economy is so bad that nobody's going to be able
to come up with the money to start a locally owned store.
Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking up new
titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent booksellers association has had record new
membership in the last few years, obviously.
I figure independents are taking up the slack left by Borders'
absence.
I expect that's a big, big part of it. I think there's also been
more attention to the indies that have always been around, chugging
along, and how they do it. And maybe even some study of how B&N
does it - the new Mysterious Galaxy has a coffee bar, for instance.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lynn McGuire
2013-06-25 18:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
On 2013-06-25 13:55:51 -0400, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-
chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me
that sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop.
There are several used book stores. If Barnes & Noble goes
away I doubt that it's going to be replaced any time soon just
because the economy is so bad that nobody's going to be able
to come up with the money to start a locally owned store.
Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking up new
titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent booksellers association has had record new
membership in the last few years, obviously.
I figure independents are taking up the slack left by Borders' absence.
I expect that's a big, big part of it. I think there's also been
more attention to the indies that have always been around, chugging
along, and how they do it. And maybe even some study of how B&N
does it - the new Mysterious Galaxy has a coffee bar, for instance.
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.

Lynn
Andrew Plotkin
2013-06-25 18:59:37 UTC
Permalink
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).

--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
Brian M. Scott
2013-06-25 19:48:29 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 18:59:37 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Plotkin
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which
started the trend as far as I know).
Around here it was Booksellers, a very good independent,
that started the trend; when Borders came in, it looked like
the imitator. Unfortunately, Booksellers foolishly
overreached itself and died years ago.

Brian
Kurt Busiek
2013-06-25 21:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started up, they
paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the Powell's
approach, and based Borders on that. Which worked well until they
started cutting corners and crapping up the process, whereupon they
started their decline.

Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can probably work
well for other independent stores.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2013-06-25 21:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Busiek
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started up, they
paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the Powell's
approach, and based Borders on that. Which worked well until they
started cutting corners and crapping up the process, whereupon they
started their decline.
Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can probably work
well for other independent stores.
I would say that cutting corners in the coffee bar was the least of their
problems (and in fact I never noticed such).

Anything else you do after telling Amazon to handle your online business is
just lost in the noise..
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Kurt Busiek
2013-06-25 21:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kurt Busiek
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started up, they
paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the Powell's
approach, and based Borders on that. Which worked well until they
started cutting corners and crapping up the process, whereupon they
started their decline.
Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can probably work
well for other independent stores.
I would say that cutting corners in the coffee bar was the least of their
problems (and in fact I never noticed such).
I didn't say they cut corners in the coffee bar. I said they started
cutting corners.

They spend months learning the Powell's approach to running a
bookstore; they got more out of it than just a coffee bar.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2013-06-25 21:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kurt Busiek
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started up, they
paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the Powell's
approach, and based Borders on that. Which worked well until they
started cutting corners and crapping up the process, whereupon they
started their decline.
Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can probably work
well for other independent stores.
I would say that cutting corners in the coffee bar was the least of their
problems (and in fact I never noticed such).
Anything else you do after telling Amazon to handle your online business is
just lost in the noise..
Oh, I dunno -- telling publishers you weren't going to pay them unless
they raised your already-excessive discount was a pretty loud bang,
too. Being surprised when the publishers stopped sending merchandise
instead of giving in took an impressive level of cluelessness.

But I guess they were already doomed by that point.
--
Now available on Amazon or B&N: One-Eyed Jack.
Greg Kraft could see ghosts. That didn't mean he could stop them...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1466291532/
J. Clarke
2013-06-25 22:13:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kurt Busiek
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started up, they
paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the Powell's
approach, and based Borders on that. Which worked well until they
started cutting corners and crapping up the process, whereupon they
started their decline.
Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can probably work
well for other independent stores.
I would say that cutting corners in the coffee bar was the least of their
problems (and in fact I never noticed such).
Anything else you do after telling Amazon to handle your online business is
just lost in the noise..
Oh, I dunno -- telling publishers you weren't going to pay them unless
they raised your already-excessive discount was a pretty loud bang,
too. Being surprised when the publishers stopped sending merchandise
instead of giving in took an impressive level of cluelessness.
But I guess they were already doomed by that point.
Neither of them though ever got "online" right. If I go to the Lowes or
the Best Buy web site I can find out which store near me has the product
I want and if I wish they'll have it waiting for me when I arrive.
Barnes & Noble didn't allow that last time I checked and when I did look
online and found something I wanted in a store near me, I then went in
and they couldn't find it and couldn't be assed to look. So I ordered
it off of Amazon and had it in a couple of days.
Rod Speed
2013-06-26 05:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kurt Busiek
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started up, they
paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the Powell's
approach, and based Borders on that. Which worked well until they
started cutting corners and crapping up the process, whereupon they
started their decline.
Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can probably work
well for other independent stores.
I would say that cutting corners in the coffee bar was the least of their
problems (and in fact I never noticed such).
Anything else you do after telling Amazon to handle your online business is
just lost in the noise..
Oh, I dunno -- telling publishers you weren't going to pay them unless
they raised your already-excessive discount was a pretty loud bang,
too. Being surprised when the publishers stopped sending merchandise
instead of giving in took an impressive level of cluelessness.
But I guess they were already doomed by that point.
Neither of them though ever got "online" right. If I go to the Lowes or
the Best Buy web site I can find out which store near me has the product
I want and if I wish they'll have it waiting for me when I arrive.
Barnes & Noble didn't allow that last time I checked and when I did look
online and found something I wanted in a store near me, I then went in
and they couldn't find it and couldn't be assed to look. So I ordered
it off of Amazon and had it in a couple of days.
And B&N is too stupid to even allow the purchase of ebooks without a US
based card.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-26 00:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Kurt Busiek
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started up, they
paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the Powell's
approach, and based Borders on that. Which worked well until they
started cutting corners and crapping up the process, whereupon they
started their decline.
Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can probably work
well for other independent stores.
I would say that cutting corners in the coffee bar was the least of their
problems (and in fact I never noticed such).
Anything else you do after telling Amazon to handle your online business is
just lost in the noise..
Oh, I dunno -- telling publishers you weren't going to pay them unless
they raised your already-excessive discount was a pretty loud bang,
too. Being surprised when the publishers stopped sending merchandise
instead of giving in took an impressive level of cluelessness.
But I guess they were already doomed by that point.
To me, the first real sign that they'd lost the concept was when they
got rid of the CRCs -- Community Relations Coordinators. These were
dedicated, full-time positions which arranged events, publicized things
of interest to the community, maintained good contacts with the local
independent bookstores, and so on.

Getting rid of them was an obvious "we've forgotten why this was
important" move, and a clear signal that whoever was running the show
didn't understand how it worked.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Greg Goss
2013-06-26 06:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Oh, I dunno -- telling publishers you weren't going to pay them unless
they raised your already-excessive discount was a pretty loud bang,
too. Being surprised when the publishers stopped sending merchandise
instead of giving in took an impressive level of cluelessness.
But I guess they were already doomed by that point.
In Canada, a well-capitalized company "went megastore" and grew to
totally dominate the books business in the country, then used their
gorilla strength to extract money from the other layers of the
business. Then they collapsed.

Along the way to their collapse, they merged with a much smaller
company also pursuing the megastore model. There were some pretty
interesting interviews with the head of the merging company expressing
mea culpa for doing lousy due diligence before before the merger.
Nobody realized just how screwed up the company totally dominating the
national business in a particular sector could be.

Chapters/Indigo still dominates the Canadian book business, but Indigo
said a few times that they would have been better off with internal
growth and just to let Chapters crash. I haven't heard since the
merger about whether the combined business is as vicious to the
wholesaler and publisher layers as Chapters was.
--
We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 21:58:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
On 2013-06-25 18:59:37 +0000, Andrew Plotkin
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started
the trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started
up, they paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the
Powell's approach, and based Borders on that. Which worked well
until they started cutting corners and crapping up the process,
whereupon they started their decline.
Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can probably
work well for other independent stores.
I would say that cutting corners in the coffee bar was the least
of their problems (and in fact I never noticed such).
Anything else you do after telling Amazon to handle your online
business is just lost in the noise..
I was under the impression they turned to Amazon *because* they were
already in trouble.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-26 00:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
On 2013-06-25 18:59:37 +0000, Andrew Plotkin
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started
the trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started
up, they paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the
Powell's approach, and based Borders on that. Which worked well
until they started cutting corners and crapping up the process,
whereupon they started their decline.
Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can probably
work well for other independent stores.
I would say that cutting corners in the coffee bar was the least
of their problems (and in fact I never noticed such).
Anything else you do after telling Amazon to handle your online
business is just lost in the noise..
I was under the impression they turned to Amazon *because* they were
already in trouble.
I tried to tell them to develop their own site about 5 years before
they really started going downhill. Alas they didn't listen, tried to do
it halfassed, and then torpedoed themselves with Amazon later.

They also failed in their New Media (software) department, not due to
choosing the wrong merchandise, but due to basic mistakes of conflating
the selling of software with the selling of books, leading to a 20+%
shrink rate...
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-26 15:49:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
On 2013-06-25 18:59:37 +0000, Andrew Plotkin
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which
started the trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they
started up, they paid Powell's to let various Border's execs
observe the Powell's approach, and based Borders on that.
Which worked well until they started cutting corners and
crapping up the process, whereupon they started their
decline.
Anyway, the coffee bar works well for Powell's, and can
probably work well for other independent stores.
I would say that cutting corners in the coffee bar was the
least of their problems (and in fact I never noticed such).
Anything else you do after telling Amazon to handle your
online business is just lost in the noise..
I was under the impression they turned to Amazon *because* they
were already in trouble.
I tried to tell them to develop their own site about 5
years before
they really started going downhill. Alas they didn't listen,
tried to do it halfassed, and then torpedoed themselves with
Amazon later.
They also failed in their New Media (software) department, not due to
choosing the wrong merchandise, but due to basic mistakes of
conflating the selling of software with the selling of books,
leading to a 20+% shrink rate...
I don't think anybody is going to argue that Borders died of
anything other than stupidity.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Tim McDaniel
2013-06-25 22:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Busiek
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started up, they
paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the Powell's
approach, and based Borders on that.
Wikipedia says that Borders and Powell's started in the same year, 1971.
--
Tim McDaniel, ***@panix.com
Kurt Busiek
2013-06-25 22:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim McDaniel
Post by Kurt Busiek
Post by Andrew Plotkin
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for B&N.
I think they've been good for B&N (and Borders, which started the
trend as far as I know).
Borders got it from Powell's, in Portland -- when they started up, they
paid Powell's to let various Border's execs observe the Powell's
approach, and based Borders on that.
Wikipedia says that Borders and Powell's started in the same year, 1971.
When Borders started their national chain operations, then. I'm pretty
sure they didn't pay to consult with Powell's when they were a single
two-room second-floor used bookstore in Ann Arbor.

I gotta say, though, that's a practically incoherent Wikipedia entry.
Even just getting the history stuff into reasonably-chronological order
would help…

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 23:26:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Busiek
I gotta say, though, that's a practically incoherent Wikipedia
entry.
Gee, I'm surprised.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-25 19:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.
Your thoughts don't match reality. I worked at Borders for 7 years, and
the coffee bar, plus comfortable seating, encouraged people to stay,
read... and *BUY*.

Sure, plenty of non-bought stuff was lying around, but they bought a
LOT more than they would have if it was just a narrow little store with
shelves o' books but no place to sit down and think about the
purchases... be encouraged to STAY and look at more things...

Anyone in the industry knew that THAT part of the Borders/B&N design
was brilliantly successful.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 22:00:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.
Your thoughts don't match reality. I worked at Borders for 7 years, and
the coffee bar, plus comfortable seating, encouraged people to
stay, read... and *BUY*.
Sure, plenty of non-bought stuff was lying around, but they bought a
LOT more than they would have if it was just a narrow little
store with shelves o' books but no place to sit down and think
about the purchases... be encouraged to STAY and look at more
things...
Anyone in the industry knew that THAT part of the
Borders/B&N design
was brilliantly successful.
I suspect it varies by location. The local on here, the Starbucks
doesn't feel like it's in the same building. In is, mind you, but
there's an obvious (though huge* doorway between the to, so it
feels like you're leaving the B&N when you go in to Starbucks. I
suspect that encourages people to buy before they sit down to read.

Certainly, the story is always busy, and seems to be doing well. A
well trained staff is a good part of that.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lynn McGuire
2013-06-25 22:32:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.
Your thoughts don't match reality. I worked at Borders for 7 years, and
the coffee bar, plus comfortable seating, encouraged people to
stay, read... and *BUY*.
Sure, plenty of non-bought stuff was lying around, but they bought a
LOT more than they would have if it was just a narrow little
store with shelves o' books but no place to sit down and think
about the purchases... be encouraged to STAY and look at more
things...
Anyone in the industry knew that THAT part of the
Borders/B&N design
was brilliantly successful.
I suspect it varies by location. The local on here, the Starbucks
doesn't feel like it's in the same building. In is, mind you, but
there's an obvious (though huge* doorway between the to, so it
feels like you're leaving the B&N when you go in to Starbucks. I
suspect that encourages people to buy before they sit down to read.
Certainly, the story is always busy, and seems to be doing well. A
well trained staff is a good part of that.
My B&N has a self owned coffee store with starbucks
coffee. There is no interface between the two except
two stair steps. One of the employees told me that
people rarely buy stuff that they are reading in there.
Plus the obligatory teenagers doing their homework.

Lynn
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-26 00:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.
Your thoughts don't match reality. I worked at Borders for 7 years, and
the coffee bar, plus comfortable seating, encouraged people to
stay, read... and *BUY*.
Sure, plenty of non-bought stuff was lying around, but they bought a
LOT more than they would have if it was just a narrow little
store with shelves o' books but no place to sit down and think
about the purchases... be encouraged to STAY and look at more
things...
Anyone in the industry knew that THAT part of the
Borders/B&N design
was brilliantly successful.
I suspect it varies by location. The local on here, the Starbucks
doesn't feel like it's in the same building.
Then it's not really the same concept. Borders had the coffee shop
right there in the store, not more than a step or three from the shelves.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Brian M. Scott
2013-06-26 02:12:45 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 20:11:56 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.
Your thoughts don't match reality. I worked at Borders
for 7 years, and the coffee bar, plus comfortable
seating, encouraged people to stay, read... and *BUY*.
Sure, plenty of non-bought stuff was lying around, but
they bought a LOT more than they would have if it was
just a narrow little store with shelves o' books but no
place to sit down and think about the purchases... be
encouraged to STAY and look at more things...
Anyone in the industry knew that THAT part of the
Borders/B&N design was brilliantly successful.
I suspect it varies by location. The local on here, the
Starbucks doesn't feel like it's in the same building.
Then it's not really the same concept. Borders had the
coffee shop right there in the store, not more than a
step or three from the shelves.
So does the local B&N: coffee shop at one end, kids’ books
at the other. The Joseph Beth had its coffee shop tucked
away in one corner, and it did feel a little bit separate
from the rest of the store, but on the other hand the store
had some of the most extensive and most comfortable seating
I’ve seen in any bookshop.

Brian
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-26 15:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.
Your thoughts don't match reality. I worked at Borders
for 7 years, and
the coffee bar, plus comfortable seating, encouraged people to
stay, read... and *BUY*.
Sure, plenty of non-bought stuff was lying around, but
they bought a
LOT more than they would have if it was just a narrow little
store with shelves o' books but no place to sit down and think
about the purchases... be encouraged to STAY and look at more
things...
Anyone in the industry knew that THAT part of the
Borders/B&N design
was brilliantly successful.
I suspect it varies by location. The local on here, the
Starbucks doesn't feel like it's in the same building.
Then it's not really the same concept. Borders had the
coffee shop
right there in the store, not more than a step or three from the shelves.
Oh, it's the same, really. It just *looks* like it's seperate
because of the way the building is laid out. But the cash register
is no more than three steps from the nearest shelf, and the
"doorway" is bigger than a triple garage door (and I don't think it
has any actual door in it). It's all an optical illusion.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 21:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-
chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me
that sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop.
There are several used book stores. If Barnes & Noble goes
away I doubt that it's going to be replaced any time soon
just because the economy is so bad that nobody's going to be
able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking
up new titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent booksellers association has had record new
membership in the last few years, obviously.
I figure independents are taking up the slack left by Borders' absence.
I expect that's a big, big part of it. I think there's also
been more attention to the indies that have always been around,
chugging along, and how they do it. And maybe even some study
of how B&N does it - the new Mysterious Galaxy has a coffee
bar, for instance.
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.
And hopefully without coffee stains. I've wondered about that.
Their coffee bars are mostly Starbucks, though, and I doubt B&N
gets much of a cut. The indeie store I've seen with one looks like
they run it themselves, so the coffee drinkers are actually their
customers.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2013-06-25 22:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-
chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me
that sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop.
There are several used book stores. If Barnes & Noble goes
away I doubt that it's going to be replaced any time soon
just because the economy is so bad that nobody's going to be
able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking
up new titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent booksellers association has had record new
membership in the last few years, obviously.
I figure independents are taking up the slack left by Borders' absence.
I expect that's a big, big part of it. I think there's also
been more attention to the indies that have always been around,
chugging along, and how they do it. And maybe even some study
of how B&N does it - the new Mysterious Galaxy has a coffee
bar, for instance.
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.
And hopefully without coffee stains. I've wondered about that.
Their coffee bars are mostly Starbucks, though, and I doubt B&N
gets much of a cut. The indeie store I've seen with one looks like
they run it themselves, so the coffee drinkers are actually their
customers.
B&N coffee bars are *not* Starbucks. They serve Starbucks cofeee -- there's
a big difference. (For instance, try to use your Starbucks gift card there..)
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 23:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
On 2013-06-25 13:55:51 -0400, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final
- chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of
the competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores
near me that sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno
shop. There are several used book stores. If Barnes &
Noble goes away I doubt that it's going to be replaced any
time soon just because the economy is so bad that nobody's
going to be able to come up with the money to start a
locally owned store. Maybe one of the used book stores
will start picking up new titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent booksellers association has had record new
membership in the last few years, obviously.
I figure independents are taking up the slack left by
Borders' absence.
I expect that's a big, big part of it. I think there's also
been more attention to the indies that have always been
around, chugging along, and how they do it. And maybe even
some study of how B&N does it - the new Mysterious Galaxy has
a coffee bar, for instance.
I think that the coffee bars have been bad for
B&N. They attract the people who come in, pick
up a book or magazine off the shelf, buy a coffee
and procede to read their choice there. If you
are lucky, the reshelve their book before leaving.
And hopefully without coffee stains. I've wondered about that.
Their coffee bars are mostly Starbucks, though, and I doubt B&N
gets much of a cut. The indeie store I've seen with one looks
like they run it themselves, so the coffee drinkers are actually
their customers.
B&N coffee bars are *not* Starbucks. They serve Starbucks
cofeee -- there's a big difference. (For instance, try to use
your Starbucks gift card there..)
I don't do Starbucks, but if that's the case for the local B&N,
that is the only difference. It has a Starbucks sign over the
seperate entrance from the street.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
J. Clarke
2013-06-25 22:06:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-
chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that
sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are
several used book stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt
that it's going to be replaced any time soon just because the
economy is so bad that nobody's going to be able to come up with
the money to start a locally owned store. Maybe one of the used
book stores will start picking up new titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
I figure independents are taking up the slack left by Borders' absence.
The local members of the Independent Booksellers Association don't seem
to have much new stock though.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 22:21:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On 2013-06-25 13:55:51 -0400, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-
chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me
that sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop.
There are several used book stores. If Barnes & Noble goes
away I doubt that it's going to be replaced any time soon
just because the economy is so bad that nobody's going to be
able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking
up new titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent booksellers association has had record new
membership in the last few years, obviously.
I figure independents are taking up the slack left by Borders' absence.
The local members of the Independent Booksellers Association
don't seem to have much new stock though.
Maybe you should live in a place that isn't a shithole. The indies
around here are thriving, and opening new locations.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lynn McGuire
2013-06-25 22:34:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-
chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that
sell new books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are
several used book stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt
that it's going to be replaced any time soon just because the
economy is so bad that nobody's going to be able to come up with
the money to start a locally owned store. Maybe one of the used
book stores will start picking up new titles though.
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
I figure independents are taking up the slack left by Borders' absence.
The local members of the Independent Booksellers Association don't seem
to have much new stock though.
Neither does my B&N. The scifi is down
to 12 bookcases. Used to be 30 when the
store opened 10 years ago. Feels like an
old B Daltons. The toy section is about
1/3 of store now.

Lynn
JRStern
2013-06-27 05:09:27 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?

J.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2013-06-27 05:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
J.
I'm not sure where they are. Columbia is a medium-sized city, and all
I can think of aside from B&N and BAM are some devotional bookstores and
used book stores.

We used to have a pretty good one

http://columbiaclosings.com/wordpress/?p=223

whose owner was president of the ABA several times (IIRC), but in the end
they succumbed to Amazon + big box and haven't been replaced.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Brian M. Scott
2013-06-27 07:51:56 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Jun 2013 05:23:41 GMT, "Ted Nolan <tednolan>"
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent booksellers association has had record new
membership in the last few years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
I'm not sure where they are. Columbia is a medium-sized
city, and all I can think of aside from B&N and BAM are
some devotional bookstores and used book stores.
Cleveland Heights has one, handling a mixture of new and
used books, and Shaker Heights has one; those are within 5
miles, probably within 3. Chagrin Falls has one; that’s
about 12-15 miles. And there’s one in Hudson, about 20-25
miles away.

Brian
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-27 11:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
I think the number's around 1600-1700, actually.

There's at least one or two in Albany, and that's not a big city.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
James Silverton
2013-06-27 12:26:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-27 13:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
J. Clarke
2013-06-27 13:25:43 UTC
Permalink
In article <kqhdig$aa4$***@dont-email.me>, ***@sgeinc.invalid.com
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-27 13:29:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
James Silverton
2013-06-27 13:51:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
Well, the first gave 0 results, searching on my ZIP code or my village
name and the second, as might be guessed from the name, does not put
Maryland in the choices. There are probably three B&N's in neighboring
towns but no independent new book stores that I know of. I think there
are a few stores in Washington, DC but one I know is a technical
bookstore and it's a bit of an expedition to go to DC just to look at
bookstores.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-27 14:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty
independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
Well, the first gave 0 results, searching on my ZIP code or my village
name and the second, as might be guessed from the name, does not put
Maryland in the choices. There are probably three B&N's in neighboring
towns but no independent new book stores that I know of. I think there
are a few stores in Washington, DC but one I know is a technical
bookstore and it's a bit of an expedition to go to DC just to look at
bookstores.
If less than 7 miles is a bit of an expedition you have a different
definition than I do. My work location is, by most people's standards,
pretty close to me, and it's 5 miles (well, 4.7 by shortest route, 6 or
so by faster and easier route)

As I said, a search on bookstores for your area gave me 17 results, of
which 7 were B&Ns and 10 were independents or, in one case,
Books-A-Million (another chain) within less than 7 miles of you.

Yes, if you search on a given zip code, or confine yourself to one
relatively small town, you may come up empty, but I presume the question
isn't whether there's one on every streetcorner, but whether there's one
in reasonable distance from any given streetcorner.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2013-06-27 16:54:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
Well, the first gave 0 results, searching on my ZIP code or my village
name and the second, as might be guessed from the name, does not put
Maryland in the choices. There are probably three B&N's in neighboring
towns but no independent new book stores that I know of. I think there
are a few stores in Washington, DC but one I know is a technical
bookstore and it's a bit of an expedition to go to DC just to look at
bookstores.
If less than 7 miles is a bit of an expedition you have a different
definition than I do. My work location is, by most people's standards,
pretty close to me, and it's 5 miles (well, 4.7 by shortest route, 6 or
so by faster and easier route)
In his defense, Potomac doesn't have much in the way of public transit,
and the roads from there into DC are among the most overcrowded
commuter routes in the country. I'm seven miles from downtown DC, too,
but I can probably get there much faster than he can.
--
My Kickstarter campaign is under way:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/217993880/publish-lawrence-watt-evans-vikas-avenger
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-27 17:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/217993880/publish-lawrence-wa
tt-evans-vikas-avenger
Congratulations. Fully funded with 27 days to go.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
2013-06-27 22:13:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/217993880/publish-lawrence-wa
tt-evans-vikas-avenger
Congratulations. Fully funded with 27 days to go.
Thanks. I'm pleasantly surprised.
--
My Kickstarter campaign is under way:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/217993880/publish-lawrence-watt-evans-vikas-avenger
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-27 23:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/217993880/publish-lawrence-wa
tt-evans-vikas-avenger
Congratulations. Fully funded with 27 days to go.
Thanks. I'm pleasantly surprised.
To be honest, I'm really not. You seem to have a bit of a following
hereabouts (and, no doubt, elsewhere).
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
J. Clarke
2013-06-27 15:33:00 UTC
Permalink
In article <kqhfn0$mfl$***@dont-email.me>, ***@verizon.net
says...
Post by James Silverton
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
Well, the first gave 0 results, searching on my ZIP code or my village
name and the second, as might be guessed from the name, does not put
Maryland in the choices. There are probably three B&N's in neighboring
towns but no independent new book stores that I know of. I think there
are a few stores in Washington, DC but one I know is a technical
bookstore and it's a bit of an expedition to go to DC just to look at
bookstores.
There appears to be one in DC that has incorporated not only a coffee
house but a bar and grill. Whether they have anything interesting in
the way of books is another story.
danny burstein
2013-06-27 16:54:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Well, the first gave 0 results, searching on my ZIP code or my village
name and the second, as might be guessed from the name, does not put
Maryland in the choices. There are probably three B&N's in neighboring
towns but no independent new book stores that I know of. I think there
are a few stores in Washington, DC but one I know is a technical
bookstore and it's a bit of an expedition to go to DC just to look at
bookstores.
[gpo.gov website]

The U.S. Government Printing Office Bookstore is a
few blocks north of the U.S. Capitol building on North
Capitol St. between G and H Streets. The street address
is 710 North Capitol Street, NW, Washington, DC 20403.

http://www.gpo.gov/about/bookstore_location.htm

danny "used to walk into the NYC one, back when you
could enter a gov't building without a cavity search" burstein
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
James Silverton
2013-06-27 21:26:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
Post by James Silverton
Well, the first gave 0 results, searching on my ZIP code or my village
name and the second, as might be guessed from the name, does not put
Maryland in the choices. There are probably three B&N's in neighboring
towns but no independent new book stores that I know of. I think there
are a few stores in Washington, DC but one I know is a technical
bookstore and it's a bit of an expedition to go to DC just to look at
bookstores.
[gpo.gov website]
The U.S. Government Printing Office Bookstore is a
few blocks north of the U.S. Capitol building on North
Capitol St. between G and H Streets. The street address
is 710 North Capitol Street, NW, Washington, DC 20403.
http://www.gpo.gov/about/bookstore_location.htm
danny "used to walk into the NYC one, back when you
could enter a gov't building without a cavity search" burstein
And you buy science fiction at the Government Book Store? Well, perhaps!
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-27 23:40:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Post by danny burstein
Post by James Silverton
Well, the first gave 0 results, searching on my ZIP code or my
village name and the second, as might be guessed from the
name, does not put Maryland in the choices. There are probably
three B&N's in neighboring towns but no independent new book
stores that I know of. I think there are a few stores in
Washington, DC but one I know is a technical bookstore and
it's a bit of an expedition to go to DC just to look at
bookstores.
[gpo.gov website]
The U.S. Government Printing Office Bookstore is a
few blocks north of the U.S. Capitol building on North
Capitol St. between G and H Streets. The street address
is 710 North Capitol Street, NW, Washington, DC 20403.
http://www.gpo.gov/about/bookstore_location.htm
danny "used to walk into the NYC one, back when you
could enter a gov't building without a cavity search"
burstein
And you buy science fiction at the Government Book Store? Well, perhaps!
*Speculative* fiction, son. In includes fantasy. And it's really hard
to imagine a bigger publisher of fantasy than the US government.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
JRStern
2013-06-29 04:12:50 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:29:27 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/los%20angeles/0/0

For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed are general,
independent bookstores. Others are specialized, museum or university
concessions - or a car wash.

Twenty years ago I could walk to three used and two new bookstores,
all long gone now. Well, actually the smallest of those might still
be there, but didn't show in the search so maybe not.

The few remaining bookstores in the city, if there *are* any, tend to
pile the books until the shelves are full, then the floors, then they
vanish, implode I suppose. One small store that was still going a
year ago was more a collection than a store, and I never actually saw
a customer buy anything there other than myself. He had some nice
stuff, at nice enough prices, but my shelves are full, too.

J.


Children's Book World
10580 1/2 W Pico Blvd, Los Angeles, CA, 90064-2347
(310) 559-2665

Over 80,000 titles for children through age 14, parents, teachers, and
collectors. Excellent service with a commitment to offering the best
in children's literature and a comprehensive, multicultural, library
type selection.

Eso Won Books
4331 Degnan Blvd, Los Angeles, CA, 90008-4908
(323) 290-1048

Over 17,000 titles pertaining to African Americans available. Large
selection of audio/video products. We ship worldwide.

J. Paul Getty Trust
1200 Getty Center Dr Ste 1200, Los Angeles, CA, 90049-1741
(310) 440-7589


Los Angeles County Museum Of A Museum Shop
5905 Wilshire Blvd, Los Angeles, CA, 90036-4504
(323) 857-6147

The Museum Shops have a comprehensive selection of books on art &
artists, costume & textile history, the arts of Japan, art-related
books for children, CD-ROMS and videos, art catalogues, posters and
products reflecting the Museum's collections.

Occidental College Bookstore
1600 Campus Rd, Los Angeles, CA, 90041-3314
(323) 259-2828

Appealing to serious scholars, artists and other discerning readers,
Occidental College Bookstore has the cream of non mainstream fiction,
poetry, significant new titles, art and media books and a superb
critical theory section.

R. Lee Walker Bookstore
1407 W 71st St, Los Angeles, CA, 90047-2035
(310) 670-2889

R. Lee Walker, Afro American writer, Black writers, Inspirational
writing, Urban writer, Black Professionals, Contemporary American
writers.

Sepulveda West Car Wash Westsi Carwash Limited
2001 S Sepulveda Blvd, Los Angeles, CA, 90025-5621
(310) 479-0655


Skylight Books
1818 N Vermont Ave, Los Angeles, CA, 90027-4213
(323) 660-1175

Literature, books on cinema, Los Angeles. A general bookstore with an
edge. Autographed books. In the Los Feliz neighborhood of L.A. Orders
welcome.

Stories
1716 W Sunset Blvd, Los Angeles, CA, 90026-3225
(213) 413-3733


UCLA Bookzone General Book Division
308 Westwood Plz, Los Angeles, CA, 90095-8355
(310) 206-0764


University of Southern California
840 Childs Way, Los Angeles, CA, 90089-0277
(213) 740-9036

One of the nation's largest college stores. Selections in Academic,
general and technical books. Full special order service, gifts and
clothing, office supplies, copy center and custom publishing. Also,
full medical and dental bookstores.
Brian M. Scott
2013-06-29 04:21:28 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:12:50 -0700, JRStern
<***@foobar.invalid> wrote in
<news:***@4ax.com> in
rec.arts.sf.written:

[...]
Post by JRStern
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed
are general, independent bookstores. Others are
specialized, museum or university concessions - or a car
wash.
[...]
Post by JRStern
University of Southern California
840 Childs Way, Los Angeles, CA, 90089-0277
(213) 740-9036
One of the nation's largest college stores. Selections in
Academic, general and technical books. Full special order
service, gifts and clothing, office supplies, copy center
and custom publishing. Also, full medical and dental
bookstores.
I rather doubt that ‘concession’ is accurate, and if, as the
description suggests, it’s anything like the Univ. of Wisc.
bookstore, it’s a good independent general bookstore *plus*.

Brian
JRStern
2013-06-29 05:32:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 00:21:28 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
Post by Brian M. Scott
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:12:50 -0700, JRStern
[...]
Post by JRStern
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed
are general, independent bookstores. Others are
specialized, museum or university concessions - or a car
wash.
[...]
Post by JRStern
University of Southern California
840 Childs Way, Los Angeles, CA, 90089-0277
(213) 740-9036
One of the nation's largest college stores. Selections in
Academic, general and technical books. Full special order
service, gifts and clothing, office supplies, copy center
and custom publishing. Also, full medical and dental
bookstores.
I rather doubt that ‘concession’ is accurate, and if, as the
description suggests, itÂ’s anything like the Univ. of Wisc.
bookstore, itÂ’s a good independent general bookstore *plus*.
What's wrong with "concession"? You prefer the longer but more
accurate, "money-losing taxpayer-supported necessity shielded from the
realities of the real world?"

I was in a (non-Los Angeles) university bookstore a couple of weeks
ago. I was warned in advance it had hardly any books anymore. Well,
that was an exaggeration, I even found one to buy and might have gone
two. But it probably had half the stock the same store had twenty
years ago, in a world where probably twice as many books are
published.

J.
Brian M. Scott
2013-06-29 05:39:25 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 22:32:35 -0700, JRStern
Post by JRStern
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 00:21:28 -0400, "Brian M. Scott"
Post by Brian M. Scott
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 21:12:50 -0700, JRStern
[...]
Post by JRStern
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed
are general, independent bookstores. Others are
specialized, museum or university concessions - or a car
wash.
[...]
Post by JRStern
University of Southern California
840 Childs Way, Los Angeles, CA, 90089-0277
(213) 740-9036
One of the nation's largest college stores. Selections
in Academic, general and technical books. Full special
order service, gifts and clothing, office supplies,
copy center and custom publishing. Also, full medical
and dental bookstores.
I rather doubt that ‘concession’ is accurate, and if, as
the description suggests, itÂ’s anything like the Univ.
of Wisc. bookstore, itÂ’s a good independent general
bookstore *plus*.
What's wrong with "concession"?
It’s inaccurate. I’ve now checked: the USC Bookstores are
owned and operated by the university.

[...]
J. Clarke
2013-06-29 11:47:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by JRStern
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:29:27 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/los%20angeles/0/0
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed are general,
independent bookstores. Others are specialized, museum or university
concessions - or a car wash.
Twenty years ago I could walk to three used and two new bookstores,
all long gone now. Well, actually the smallest of those might still
be there, but didn't show in the search so maybe not.
Twenty years ago I could walk into three general-content new bookstores
in one mall in Hartford and every other mall of any size had at least
one, and my secretary could spend entire weekends browsing used
bookstores.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-29 13:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:29:27 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/los%20angeles/0/0
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed are general,
independent bookstores. Others are specialized, museum or university
concessions - or a car wash.
Twenty years ago I could walk to three used and two new bookstores,
all long gone now. Well, actually the smallest of those might still
be there, but didn't show in the search so maybe not.
Twenty years ago I could walk into three general-content new bookstores
in one mall in Hartford and every other mall of any size had at least
one, and my secretary could spend entire weekends browsing used
bookstores.
Of course, twenty years ago you didn't have an effective alternative to
actually going to the bookstore and physically searching their
collection, either.

My theory is that Amazon and the economy DID cause an implosion of
bookstores, but that the implosion stopped in ~2010 and an expansion is
now beginning as the stores figure out how to reposition themselves in
the new market.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
James Silverton
2013-06-29 13:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:29:27 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers'
Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/los%20angeles/0/0
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed are general,
independent bookstores. Others are specialized, museum or university
concessions - or a car wash.
Twenty years ago I could walk to three used and two new bookstores,
all long gone now. Well, actually the smallest of those might still
be there, but didn't show in the search so maybe not.
Twenty years ago I could walk into three general-content new bookstores
in one mall in Hartford and every other mall of any size had at least
one, and my secretary could spend entire weekends browsing used
bookstores.
Of course, twenty years ago you didn't have an effective
alternative to actually going to the bookstore and physically searching
their collection, either.
My theory is that Amazon and the economy DID cause an implosion of
bookstores, but that the implosion stopped in ~2010 and an expansion is
now beginning as the stores figure out how to reposition themselves in
the new market.
I really hope you are correct about a revival of general bookstores but
I see little evidence of that here.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
J. Clarke
2013-06-29 15:02:37 UTC
Permalink
In article <kqmmbv$jcu$***@dont-email.me>, ***@sgeinc.invalid.com
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:29:27 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/los%20angeles/0/0
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed are general,
independent bookstores. Others are specialized, museum or university
concessions - or a car wash.
Twenty years ago I could walk to three used and two new bookstores,
all long gone now. Well, actually the smallest of those might still
be there, but didn't show in the search so maybe not.
Twenty years ago I could walk into three general-content new bookstores
in one mall in Hartford and every other mall of any size had at least
one, and my secretary could spend entire weekends browsing used
bookstores.
Of course, twenty years ago you didn't have an effective alternative to
actually going to the bookstore and physically searching their
collection, either.
My theory is that Amazon and the economy DID cause an implosion of
bookstores, but that the implosion stopped in ~2010 and an expansion is
now beginning as the stores figure out how to reposition themselves in
the new market.
For me, Amazon initially was competing with the university bookstore
about 25 miles away, not the general bookstores in the mall. Then it
started competing on new titles that the general bookstores seemed to
take forever to get.
JRStern
2013-06-29 16:17:16 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 11:02:37 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:29:27 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/los%20angeles/0/0
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed are general,
independent bookstores. Others are specialized, museum or university
concessions - or a car wash.
Twenty years ago I could walk to three used and two new bookstores,
all long gone now. Well, actually the smallest of those might still
be there, but didn't show in the search so maybe not.
Twenty years ago I could walk into three general-content new bookstores
in one mall in Hartford and every other mall of any size had at least
one, and my secretary could spend entire weekends browsing used
bookstores.
Of course, twenty years ago you didn't have an effective alternative to
actually going to the bookstore and physically searching their
collection, either.
My theory is that Amazon and the economy DID cause an implosion of
bookstores, but that the implosion stopped in ~2010 and an expansion is
now beginning as the stores figure out how to reposition themselves in
the new market.
For me, Amazon initially was competing with the university bookstore
about 25 miles away, not the general bookstores in the mall. Then it
started competing on new titles that the general bookstores seemed to
take forever to get.
Of *course* Amazon and the Interwebs caused an implosion in marketing
and distribution that goes without saying, what is debatable is where
the entire market for paper-printed books is going, which is
plummeting downward like new Star Trek characters diving from space in
nothing but body suits, if nobody cares to *read* anyway. And if a
significant portion of remaining readers are happy to download to
Kindles, Nooks, and iPads anyway, can brick and mortar building really
survive as bookstores? I daresay, not, at least not on the previous
scale, small displays and service desks in small mall outlets, maybe.

Web marketing is a good thing in many ways, more than half the books I
buy are Oxford or Cambridge or MIT Press that basically nobody is
going to stock on shelves for more than a year past their publication
dates. And somehow, print-on-demand never caught on though the
technology has been around since about 1990, and I have some few
printed-on-demand books on my shelf from then to prove it. "Long tail"
distribution is supposed to be the key, more for music than books but
I guess for both.

But I miss the capability to browse books that I might never run into
on my own searches, Amazon's AI is too logical maybe, too linear, so
that not only does it not do the job, but it turns me off to what it
does suggest. Or maybe I just want to discover it myself so *any*
suggestion is obnoxious, that's what "browse" really means.

About half the remaining "bookstores" are "all books one dollar" kinds
of places with closeouts and salvage from Goodwill.

J.
J. Clarke
2013-06-29 17:02:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by JRStern
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 11:02:37 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:29:27 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the independent
booksellers association has had record new membership in the last few
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of those
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/los%20angeles/0/0
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed are general,
independent bookstores. Others are specialized, museum or university
concessions - or a car wash.
Twenty years ago I could walk to three used and two new bookstores,
all long gone now. Well, actually the smallest of those might still
be there, but didn't show in the search so maybe not.
Twenty years ago I could walk into three general-content new bookstores
in one mall in Hartford and every other mall of any size had at least
one, and my secretary could spend entire weekends browsing used
bookstores.
Of course, twenty years ago you didn't have an effective alternative to
actually going to the bookstore and physically searching their
collection, either.
My theory is that Amazon and the economy DID cause an implosion of
bookstores, but that the implosion stopped in ~2010 and an expansion is
now beginning as the stores figure out how to reposition themselves in
the new market.
For me, Amazon initially was competing with the university bookstore
about 25 miles away, not the general bookstores in the mall. Then it
started competing on new titles that the general bookstores seemed to
take forever to get.
Of *course* Amazon and the Interwebs caused an implosion in marketing
and distribution that goes without saying, what is debatable is where
the entire market for paper-printed books is going, which is
plummeting downward like new Star Trek characters diving from space in
nothing but body suits, if nobody cares to *read* anyway. And if a
significant portion of remaining readers are happy to download to
Kindles, Nooks, and iPads anyway, can brick and mortar building really
survive as bookstores? I daresay, not, at least not on the previous
scale, small displays and service desks in small mall outlets, maybe.
Web marketing is a good thing in many ways, more than half the books I
buy are Oxford or Cambridge or MIT Press that basically nobody is
going to stock on shelves for more than a year past their publication
dates. And somehow, print-on-demand never caught on though the
technology has been around since about 1990, and I have some few
printed-on-demand books on my shelf from then to prove it. "Long tail"
distribution is supposed to be the key, more for music than books but
I guess for both.
Print-on-demand never caught on because it's expensive to do.
Post by JRStern
But I miss the capability to browse books that I might never run into
on my own searches, Amazon's AI is too logical maybe, too linear, so
that not only does it not do the job, but it turns me off to what it
does suggest. Or maybe I just want to discover it myself so *any*
suggestion is obnoxious, that's what "browse" really means.
Current search engines are still rather rudimentary--they can't answer
questions like "What is C.J. Cherry's newest Atevi novel". It's rather
sad really considering how much Google and Microsoft and the rest have
spent on them.

In fact Microsoft is taking steps backward--they want you to learn a
query language in order to make any kind of search beyond finding
keywords anywhere in the text.
Post by JRStern
About half the remaining "bookstores" are "all books one dollar" kinds
of places with closeouts and salvage from Goodwill.
Yep.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2013-06-29 17:09:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by JRStern
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 11:02:37 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:29:27 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
booksellers association has had record new membership in
the last few
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one
of those
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed
when I look
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty
independents
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing,
there's still
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers'
Association".
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/los%20angeles/0/0
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed are general,
independent bookstores. Others are specialized, museum or university
concessions - or a car wash.
Twenty years ago I could walk to three used and two new bookstores,
all long gone now. Well, actually the smallest of those might still
be there, but didn't show in the search so maybe not.
Twenty years ago I could walk into three general-content new bookstores
in one mall in Hartford and every other mall of any size had at least
one, and my secretary could spend entire weekends browsing used
bookstores.
Of course, twenty years ago you didn't have an effective alternative to
actually going to the bookstore and physically searching their
collection, either.
My theory is that Amazon and the economy DID cause an implosion of
bookstores, but that the implosion stopped in ~2010 and an expansion is
now beginning as the stores figure out how to reposition themselves in
the new market.
For me, Amazon initially was competing with the university bookstore
about 25 miles away, not the general bookstores in the mall. Then it
started competing on new titles that the general bookstores seemed to
take forever to get.
Of *course* Amazon and the Interwebs caused an implosion in marketing
and distribution that goes without saying, what is debatable is where
the entire market for paper-printed books is going, which is
plummeting downward like new Star Trek characters diving from space in
nothing but body suits, if nobody cares to *read* anyway. And if a
significant portion of remaining readers are happy to download to
Kindles, Nooks, and iPads anyway, can brick and mortar building really
survive as bookstores? I daresay, not, at least not on the previous
scale, small displays and service desks in small mall outlets, maybe.
Web marketing is a good thing in many ways, more than half the books I
buy are Oxford or Cambridge or MIT Press that basically nobody is
going to stock on shelves for more than a year past their publication
dates. And somehow, print-on-demand never caught on though the
technology has been around since about 1990, and I have some few
printed-on-demand books on my shelf from then to prove it. "Long tail"
distribution is supposed to be the key, more for music than books but
I guess for both.
Print-on-demand never caught on because it's expensive to do.
Post by JRStern
But I miss the capability to browse books that I might never run into
on my own searches, Amazon's AI is too logical maybe, too linear, so
that not only does it not do the job, but it turns me off to what it
does suggest. Or maybe I just want to discover it myself so *any*
suggestion is obnoxious, that's what "browse" really means.
Current search engines are still rather rudimentary--they can't answer
questions like "What is C.J. Cherry's newest Atevi novel". It's rather
sad really considering how much Google and Microsoft and the rest have
spent on them.
The information is out there: For instance, that's the kind of
thing isfdb.org is good for.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
J. Clarke
2013-06-29 17:24:56 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@loft.tnolan.com
says...
Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by JRStern
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 11:02:37 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:29:27 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
says...
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
booksellers association has had record new membership in
the last few
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one
of those
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by James Silverton
nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there were two
chain bookstores there.
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed
when I look
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty
independents
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing,
there's still
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
10 left.
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers'
Association".
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Is there one?
There's the American Booksellers' Association, which is at
http://www.bookweb.org/ . There's the New England Independent
Bookseller's Association at http://www.newenglandbooks.org/ . Jeez, if
you do a search on independent booksellers association, there's a whole
list of 'em, with the ABA probably the top one.
http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/los%20angeles/0/0
Post by JRStern
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
For the city of Los Angeles, maybe two of eleven listed are general,
independent bookstores. Others are specialized, museum or university
concessions - or a car wash.
Twenty years ago I could walk to three used and two new bookstores,
all long gone now. Well, actually the smallest of those might still
be there, but didn't show in the search so maybe not.
Twenty years ago I could walk into three general-content new bookstores
in one mall in Hartford and every other mall of any size had at least
one, and my secretary could spend entire weekends browsing used
bookstores.
Of course, twenty years ago you didn't have an effective alternative to
actually going to the bookstore and physically searching their
collection, either.
My theory is that Amazon and the economy DID cause an implosion of
bookstores, but that the implosion stopped in ~2010 and an expansion is
now beginning as the stores figure out how to reposition themselves in
the new market.
For me, Amazon initially was competing with the university bookstore
about 25 miles away, not the general bookstores in the mall. Then it
started competing on new titles that the general bookstores seemed to
take forever to get.
Of *course* Amazon and the Interwebs caused an implosion in marketing
and distribution that goes without saying, what is debatable is where
the entire market for paper-printed books is going, which is
plummeting downward like new Star Trek characters diving from space in
nothing but body suits, if nobody cares to *read* anyway. And if a
significant portion of remaining readers are happy to download to
Kindles, Nooks, and iPads anyway, can brick and mortar building really
survive as bookstores? I daresay, not, at least not on the previous
scale, small displays and service desks in small mall outlets, maybe.
Web marketing is a good thing in many ways, more than half the books I
buy are Oxford or Cambridge or MIT Press that basically nobody is
going to stock on shelves for more than a year past their publication
dates. And somehow, print-on-demand never caught on though the
technology has been around since about 1990, and I have some few
printed-on-demand books on my shelf from then to prove it. "Long tail"
distribution is supposed to be the key, more for music than books but
I guess for both.
Print-on-demand never caught on because it's expensive to do.
Post by JRStern
But I miss the capability to browse books that I might never run into
on my own searches, Amazon's AI is too logical maybe, too linear, so
that not only does it not do the job, but it turns me off to what it
does suggest. Or maybe I just want to discover it myself so *any*
suggestion is obnoxious, that's what "browse" really means.
Current search engines are still rather rudimentary--they can't answer
questions like "What is C.J. Cherry's newest Atevi novel". It's rather
sad really considering how much Google and Microsoft and the rest have
spent on them.
The information is out there: For instance, that's the kind of
thing isfdb.org is good for.
Sure, it's out there, but having to know where to go to find it defeats
the purpose of a search engine.

Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2013-06-29 17:08:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by JRStern
dates. And somehow, print-on-demand never caught on though the
technology has been around since about 1990, and I have some few
printed-on-demand books on my shelf from then to prove it. "Long tail"
I think POD is a technology that is hard to fit into the book buying
experience. Unless it can give you a book in five minutes, it's too
slow for a walk-in store. The obvious niche would have been for online
orders, and indeed I'm pretty sure that's how Amazon does some paperbacks,
but the ebook has pretty much killed that rationale.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Robert Carnegie
2013-06-27 13:42:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
Is "American Booksellers Association" what you want?
<http://www.bookweb.org/about-aba> appears to be that:
"a not-for-profit trade organization devoted to meeting
the needs of its core members – independently owned
bookstores with storefront locations nationwide – through
education, information dissemination, business products
and services, and advocacy. ABA exists to protect and
promote the interests of independent retail book
businesses, as well as to protect the First Amendment
rights of every American."

<http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember>
is their store locator.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2013-06-27 13:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
Is "American Booksellers Association" what you want?
"a not-for-profit trade organization devoted to meeting
the needs of its core members – independently owned
bookstores with storefront locations nationwide – through
education, information dissemination, business products
and services, and advocacy. ABA exists to protect and
promote the interests of independent retail book
businesses, as well as to protect the First Amendment
rights of every American."
<http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember>
is their store locator.
Interesting!

http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember/results/0/0/sc/0

I am familiar with the stores in Hartsville, Litchfield and Georgetown
(though that is an old address for Litchfield), but none at all in Columbia!

Also, no B&N in those places.. If B&N *does* go belly up, it will
be interesting to see if we get an ABA member here.
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
J. Clarke
2013-06-27 15:32:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by J. Clarke
I can't find a web site for this "Independent Booksellers' Association".
Is there one?
Is "American Booksellers Association" what you want?
"a not-for-profit trade organization devoted to meeting
the needs of its core members ? independently owned
bookstores with storefront locations nationwide ? through
education, information dissemination, business products
and services, and advocacy. ABA exists to protect and
promote the interests of independent retail book
businesses, as well as to protect the First Amendment
rights of every American."
<http://www.bookweb.org/member_directory/search/ABAmember>
is their store locator.
I plugged in the zip code for Potomac, MD and it found no hits. Same
for the name. None in my area either that I could find.
Robert Carnegie
2013-06-27 14:27:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
What are you using to search?

There's <http://www.yellowpages.com/> but I don't know if
it covers all businesses of the type - "Book Store" -
or only paying advertisers.

I suppose also that a church, or a fishing store,
or whatever, may be selling books about their topic
of interest, without making a big business of it.

The ABA site appears to let you pick one zip code,
or town name, or state, and only shows you results
/inside/ that area, not near that area, I suppose.
All book stores in a state /may/ be too many to
choose from.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-27 16:31:36 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 14:14:54 UTC+1, Sea Wasp (Ryk E.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch
listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty
independents -- 17 of them githin less than 7 miles of Potomac,
MD (which is, I gather, your location, based on your sig). Even
if I assume that the B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7)
are all closing, there's still 10 left.
What are you using to search?
iou can get an approximation of a decent list by going to Google Maps
and sarching for "book store" followed by your city and state. You
get a lot of extraneous crap, but it's easy to dig through.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Brian M. Scott
2013-06-27 21:08:12 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:31:36 -0700, Gutless Umbrella
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
On Thursday, 27 June 2013 14:14:54 UTC+1, Sea Wasp (Ryk E.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch
listed when I look for them online, ranging from chain
bookstores to specialty independents -- 17 of them
githin less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I
assume that the B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than
7) are all closing, there's still 10 left.
What are you using to search?
iou can get an approximation of a decent list by going to
Google Maps and sarching for "book store" followed by
your city and state. You get a lot of extraneous crap,
but it's easy to dig through.
You can also use IndieBound’s store finder at

<http://www.indiebound.org/indie-store-finder>,

though it’s worth double-checking the results individually:
it does have some outdated information.

Brian
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-27 16:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
How far are you willing to go? There's a whole bunch listed when I look
for them online, ranging from chain bookstores to specialty independents
-- 17 of them within less than 7 miles of Potomac, MD (which is, I
gather, your location, based on your sig). Even if I assume that the
B&Ns (of which there are no fewer than 7) are all closing, there's still
10 left.
What are you using to search?
Google. Then checking out a couple of the hits that came up brought me
a list.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-27 16:26:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent booksellers association has had record new
membership in the last few years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
Where are these independent booksellers? There's neither one of
those nor a chain store in the local mall. A few years ago there
were two chain bookstores there.
Mall space is generally quite a bit more expensive, so independent
books stores, being aware of how marginal an industry it is, usually
locate elsewhere, like strip malls or old stand alone buildings. At
least in my experience.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-27 16:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 10:55:51 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
Post by Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
You are unaware (as you are of so many things) that the
independent booksellers association has had record new
membership in the last few years, obviously.
Got it up to three?
I think can point to more than that that are *new* within reasonable
driving distance of me.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Jorgen Grahn
2013-06-25 18:36:22 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 2013-06-25, J. Clarke wrote:
...
Post by J. Clarke
But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--when you can watch movies on the same
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
I do think a big chunk of the population have other distractions now.
Not just movies, but stuff like Facebook, YouTube clips ... all
those little things you can use to keep your mind occupied when
nothing major is going on.

But I think many (not just a small elite) will still find time for
reading.

/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
J. Clarke
2013-06-25 22:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jorgen Grahn
...
Post by J. Clarke
But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--when you can watch movies on the same
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
I do think a big chunk of the population have other distractions now.
Not just movies, but stuff like Facebook, YouTube clips ... all
those little things you can use to keep your mind occupied when
nothing major is going on.
But I think many (not just a small elite) will still find time for
reading.
The nature of literature may be changing too. People sneer at the video
game as a literary form, but they sneered at science fiction once, and
later at comic books.
David Johnston
2013-06-26 15:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Jorgen Grahn
...
Post by J. Clarke
But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--when you can watch movies on the same
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
I do think a big chunk of the population have other distractions now.
Not just movies, but stuff like Facebook, YouTube clips ... all
those little things you can use to keep your mind occupied when
nothing major is going on.
But I think many (not just a small elite) will still find time for
reading.
The nature of literature may be changing too. People sneer at the video
game as a literary form, but they sneered at science fiction once, and
later at comic books.
Of course people still sneer at science fiction and comic books...
Juho Julkunen
2013-06-26 19:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by J. Clarke
The nature of literature may be changing too. People sneer at the video
game as a literary form, but they sneered at science fiction once, and
later at comic books.
Of course people still sneer at science fiction and comic books...
I still remember what the director Brian Singer said of the first X-men
movie: "We're making a science fiction movie, not a comic book movie".
It's nice to occasionally get an idea of the relative prestige of
things.
--
Juho Julkunen
blat
2013-06-25 19:48:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that sell new
books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are several used book
stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt that it's going to be
replaced any time soon just because the economy is so bad that nobody's
going to be able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking up new
titles though.
But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--
I doubt it.

when you can watch movies on the same
Post by J. Clarke
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
Sure, but that has always been true and books survived fine anyway.
J. Clarke
2013-06-25 22:06:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by blat
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that sell new
books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are several used book
stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt that it's going to be
replaced any time soon just because the economy is so bad that nobody's
going to be able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking up new
titles though.
But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--
I doubt it.
when you can watch movies on the same
Post by J. Clarke
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
Sure, but that has always been true and books survived fine anyway.
It has? Ok, tell us how, in, say, 1776, one went about watching movies
on the same handheld that they used to read books. For that matter,
tell us how one went about doing it in 1993.
blat
2013-06-26 05:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by blat
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that sell new
books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are several used book
stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt that it's going to be
replaced any time soon just because the economy is so bad that nobody's
going to be able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking up new
titles though.
But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--
I doubt it.
when you can watch movies on the same
Post by J. Clarke
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
Sure, but that has always been true and books survived fine anyway.
It has?
Yes.

Ok, tell us how, in, say, 1776, one went about watching movies
Post by J. Clarke
on the same handheld that they used to read books.
There wasn't a lot of fiction to read at that time.

For that matter,
Post by J. Clarke
tell us how one went about doing it in 1993.
Doesn't matter whether its done on a handheld or not.
J. Clarke
2013-06-26 06:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by blat
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that sell new
books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are several used book
stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt that it's going to be
replaced any time soon just because the economy is so bad that nobody's
going to be able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking up new
titles though.
But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--
I doubt it.
when you can watch movies on the same
Post by J. Clarke
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
Sure, but that has always been true and books survived fine anyway.
It has?
Yes.
Ok, tell us how, in, say, 1776, one went about watching movies
Post by J. Clarke
on the same handheld that they used to read books.
There wasn't a lot of fiction to read at that time.
That would be news to quite a lot of Greeks, Romans, and Englishmen,
among others.
Post by J. Clarke
For that matter,
Post by J. Clarke
tell us how one went about doing it in 1993.
Doesn't matter whether its done on a handheld or not.
Since the premise was that one could watch movies on the same device
that one uses to read books it most assuredly does matter. Unless you
knod of some other device that was _always_ available and that shows
movies and displays books.

I'm getting the impression that you aren't really trying to participate
in the conversation, just show everybody how smart you are by displaying
your total lack of reading comprehension.
blat
2013-06-26 06:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by blat
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that sell new
books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are several used book
stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt that it's going to be
replaced any time soon just because the economy is so bad that nobody's
going to be able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking up new
titles though.
But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--
I doubt it.
when you can watch movies on the same
Post by J. Clarke
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
Sure, but that has always been true and books survived fine anyway.
It has?
Yes.
Ok, tell us how, in, say, 1776, one went about watching movies
Post by J. Clarke
on the same handheld that they used to read books.
There wasn't a lot of fiction to read at that time.
That would be news to quite a lot of Greeks, Romans, and Englishmen,
among others.
Not with books at that date.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
For that matter,
Post by J. Clarke
tell us how one went about doing it in 1993.
Doesn't matter whether its done on a handheld or not.
Since the premise was that one could watch movies on the same
device that one uses to read books it most assuredly does matter.
Doesn't matter if its done on the same device or not.

That is unlikely to make much difference to the choice
between reading a book or watching a movie.
Post by J. Clarke
Unless you knod of some other device that was _always_
available and that shows movies and displays books.
See above.
J. Clarke
2013-06-26 14:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by blat
Post by J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
Post by blat
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?\
Possibly. Barnes & Noble and Borders killed off much of the
competition. The only brick and mortar bookstores near me that sell new
books are Barnes & Noble and a porno shop. There are several used book
stores. If Barnes & Noble goes away I doubt that it's going to be
replaced any time soon just because the economy is so bad that nobody's
going to be able to come up with the money to start a locally owned
store. Maybe one of the used book stores will start picking up new
titles though.
But sadly I'm starting to think that recreational reading is itself in
the process of going away--
I doubt it.
when you can watch movies on the same
Post by J. Clarke
handheld that you use to read books many people will pick the movies
instead.
Sure, but that has always been true and books survived fine anyway.
It has?
Yes.
Ok, tell us how, in, say, 1776, one went about watching movies
Post by J. Clarke
on the same handheld that they used to read books.
There wasn't a lot of fiction to read at that time.
That would be news to quite a lot of Greeks, Romans, and Englishmen,
among others.
Not with books at that date.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
For that matter,
Post by J. Clarke
tell us how one went about doing it in 1993.
Doesn't matter whether its done on a handheld or not.
Since the premise was that one could watch movies on the same
device that one uses to read books it most assuredly does matter.
Doesn't matter if its done on the same device or not.
That is unlikely to make much difference to the choice
between reading a book or watching a movie.
Post by J. Clarke
Unless you knod of some other device that was _always_
available and that shows movies and displays books.
See above.
Rod, that you? Bye.
David DeLaney
2013-06-26 12:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by blat
Post by J. Clarke
Ok, tell us how, in, say, 1776, one went about watching movies
on the same handheld that they used to read books.
There wasn't a lot of fiction to read at that time.
For that matter,
Post by J. Clarke
tell us how one went about doing it in 1993.
Doesn't matter whether its done on a handheld or not.
And here we have another Rod Speed nom-de-loon. (If nothing else, you can
tell from the way the ignorameter has to switch to a log log scale to display.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2013-06-25 17:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
The Huge Chain may be, although you'll note that if you ignore their
DISASTROUS Nook issues, the chain would be making profits closer to $400
million instead of $10 million.

However, independent bookstores are *EXPANDING* these days; see, for
instance,
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0317/The-novel-resurgence-of-independent-bookstores/%28page%29/4

So I'm not counting paper out yet.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Lynn McGuire
2013-06-25 17:06:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
The Huge Chain may be, although you'll note that if you ignore their DISASTROUS Nook issues, the chain would be making profits
closer to $400 million instead of $10 million.
However, independent bookstores are *EXPANDING* these days; see, for instance,
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0317/The-novel-resurgence-of-independent-bookstores/%28page%29/4
So I'm not counting paper out yet.
My B&N has turned itself into a toy store that
has books in it. I have no idea how successful
that has been for them.

Lynn
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 18:00:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chap
ter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
The Huge Chain may be, although you'll note that if you
ignore their DISASTROUS Nook issues, the chain would be
making profits
closer to $400 million instead of $10 million.
However, independent bookstores are *EXPANDING* these
days; see, for instance,
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0317/The-novel-resurge
nce-of-independent-bookstores/%28page%29/4
So I'm not counting paper out yet.
My B&N has turned itself into a toy store that
has books in it. I have no idea how successful
that has been for them.
My local B&N is still over 50% books. But only just. Toys, games, I
believe they even (try to) sell music CDs. The Starbucks in it seems
to do well, too. I suspect that's the college kids.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
2013-06-25 17:59:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapt
er-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
The Huge Chain may be, although you'll note that if you
ignore their
DISASTROUS Nook issues, the chain would be making profits closer
to $400 million instead of $10 million.
However, independent bookstores are *EXPANDING* these days; see, for
instance,
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0317/The-novel-resurgen
ce-of-independent-bookstores/%28page%29/4
So I'm not counting paper out yet.
Mysterious Galaxy's new location seems to be doing OK. It ha a coffee
bar in it.
--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
JRStern
2013-06-27 05:19:19 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:00:01 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
The Huge Chain may be, although you'll note that if you ignore their
DISASTROUS Nook issues, the chain would be making profits closer to $400
million instead of $10 million.
However, independent bookstores are *EXPANDING* these days; see, for
instance,
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0317/The-novel-resurgence-of-independent-bookstores/%28page%29/4
So I'm not counting paper out yet.
Paper, and reading, both gonzo.

I don't know what to make of that csmonitor article, the number of new
and used bookstores is down by 90% or more in Los Angeles, compared to
ten years ago, and I find it very hard to believe it's significantly
different anywhere else.

Let's see if WSJ has this article online and public ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323844804578526963222895632.html

The Young and the Bookless
Many of my college students hadn't read for fun since 'Harry Potter.'
By
DANNY HEITMAN
As I start another summer reading season, I'm worried that few of my
recent students will be joining me in reading for fun.

This spring, in addition to my primary job as a journalist, I taught
my first college writing course. It was a class of 16, most of them
freshmen. They were sharp, engaging and curious students, but I
quickly noticed that much of their writing didn't display the kind of
familiarity with English that comes from reading a lot.

For my first quiz, I included a bonus question asking my students to
name the last book they had read for fun. More than half of the
students listed one of the Harry Potter books by J.K. Rowling, titles
most popular with middle-school youngsters. The answers suggested that
most of my students hadn't read a book for pleasure in nearly a
decade.

...



J.
J. Clarke
2013-06-27 05:30:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:00:01 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
The Huge Chain may be, although you'll note that if you ignore their
DISASTROUS Nook issues, the chain would be making profits closer to $400
million instead of $10 million.
However, independent bookstores are *EXPANDING* these days; see, for
instance,
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0317/The-novel-resurgence-of-independent-bookstores/%28page%29/4
So I'm not counting paper out yet.
Paper, and reading, both gonzo.
I don't know what to make of that csmonitor article, the number of new
and used bookstores is down by 90% or more in Los Angeles, compared to
ten years ago, and I find it very hard to believe it's significantly
different anywhere else.
Let's see if WSJ has this article online and public ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323844804578526963222895632.html
The Young and the Bookless
Many of my college students hadn't read for fun since 'Harry Potter.'
By
DANNY HEITMAN
As I start another summer reading season, I'm worried that few of my
recent students will be joining me in reading for fun.
This spring, in addition to my primary job as a journalist, I taught
my first college writing course. It was a class of 16, most of them
freshmen. They were sharp, engaging and curious students, but I
quickly noticed that much of their writing didn't display the kind of
familiarity with English that comes from reading a lot.
For my first quiz, I included a bonus question asking my students to
name the last book they had read for fun. More than half of the
students listed one of the Harry Potter books by J.K. Rowling, titles
most popular with middle-school youngsters. The answers suggested that
most of my students hadn't read a book for pleasure in nearly a
decade.
If anything saves the brick and mortar bookstore, I suspect it will be
rising shipping costs.
whoky
2013-06-27 09:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:00:01 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
The Huge Chain may be, although you'll note that if you ignore their
DISASTROUS Nook issues, the chain would be making profits closer to $400
million instead of $10 million.
However, independent bookstores are *EXPANDING* these days; see, for
instance,
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0317/The-novel-resurgence-of-independent-bookstores/%28page%29/4
So I'm not counting paper out yet.
Paper, and reading, both gonzo.
I don't know what to make of that csmonitor article, the number of new
and used bookstores is down by 90% or more in Los Angeles, compared to
ten years ago, and I find it very hard to believe it's significantly
different anywhere else.
Let's see if WSJ has this article online and public ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323844804578526963222895632.html
The Young and the Bookless
Many of my college students hadn't read for fun since 'Harry Potter.'
By
DANNY HEITMAN
As I start another summer reading season, I'm worried that few of my
recent students will be joining me in reading for fun.
This spring, in addition to my primary job as a journalist, I taught
my first college writing course. It was a class of 16, most of them
freshmen. They were sharp, engaging and curious students, but I
quickly noticed that much of their writing didn't display the kind of
familiarity with English that comes from reading a lot.
For my first quiz, I included a bonus question asking my students to
name the last book they had read for fun. More than half of the
students listed one of the Harry Potter books by J.K. Rowling, titles
most popular with middle-school youngsters. The answers suggested that
most of my students hadn't read a book for pleasure in nearly a
decade.
If anything saves the brick and mortar bookstore,
I doubt anything will, just like with printed newspapers.
Post by J. Clarke
I suspect it will be rising shipping costs.
Unlikely given that there isnt a lot in it between ebooks and printed books.
JRStern
2013-06-28 05:20:59 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 01:30:57 -0400, "J. Clarke"
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JRStern
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 13:00:01 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/barnes-noble-final-chapter-151038001.html
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
The Huge Chain may be, although you'll note that if you ignore their
DISASTROUS Nook issues, the chain would be making profits closer to $400
million instead of $10 million.
However, independent bookstores are *EXPANDING* these days; see, for
instance,
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2013/0317/The-novel-resurgence-of-independent-bookstores/%28page%29/4
So I'm not counting paper out yet.
Paper, and reading, both gonzo.
I don't know what to make of that csmonitor article, the number of new
and used bookstores is down by 90% or more in Los Angeles, compared to
ten years ago, and I find it very hard to believe it's significantly
different anywhere else.
Let's see if WSJ has this article online and public ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323844804578526963222895632.html
The Young and the Bookless
Many of my college students hadn't read for fun since 'Harry Potter.'
By
DANNY HEITMAN
As I start another summer reading season, I'm worried that few of my
recent students will be joining me in reading for fun.
This spring, in addition to my primary job as a journalist, I taught
my first college writing course. It was a class of 16, most of them
freshmen. They were sharp, engaging and curious students, but I
quickly noticed that much of their writing didn't display the kind of
familiarity with English that comes from reading a lot.
For my first quiz, I included a bonus question asking my students to
name the last book they had read for fun. More than half of the
students listed one of the Harry Potter books by J.K. Rowling, titles
most popular with middle-school youngsters. The answers suggested that
most of my students hadn't read a book for pleasure in nearly a
decade.
If anything saves the brick and mortar bookstore, I suspect it will be
rising shipping costs.
Yes, but maybe the opposite way from what you mean - even Amazon is
opening up storefronts so they can ship wholesale and let people pick
stuff up instead of shipping retail and letting it sit by the door and
got stolen. I've ordered books custom from B&N as often as buying off
the shelf - but sometimes the web price is different and better and
they wouldn't ship to the store for pickup, wish they would.

J.
David DeLaney
2013-06-25 18:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
"lack of foot traffic in the stores"? The one in Knoxville must be rather above
average then - always a full parking lot, always lots of people in the store
and attached pseudo-Starbucks...

If they go, I shall be REALLY annoyed, because they're the last big dependable
chain in Knoxville. Ed McKay's is huge but it's used books; Books-a-Million,
the last time I checked, didn't bother to put their subject sections in
alphabetical order...

...ah, the Nook division specifically is to blame. Okay got it. The actual
stores are doing okay or even good; the Nook division had a $475 million loss.

Dave, comforted obscurely
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2013-06-25 18:50:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Lynn McGuire
"Barnes & Noble: The Final Chapter?"
So, are the brick and mortar book stores dead?
"lack of foot traffic in the stores"? The one in Knoxville must be rather above
average then - always a full parking lot, always lots of people in the store
and attached pseudo-Starbucks...
If they go, I shall be REALLY annoyed, because they're the last big dependable
chain in Knoxville. Ed McKay's is huge but it's used books; Books-a-Million,
the last time I checked, didn't bother to put their subject sections in
alphabetical order...
...ah, the Nook division specifically is to blame. Okay got it. The actual
stores are doing okay or even good; the Nook division had a $475 million loss.
BAM is moving at least some of their stores to a used concept:


http://columbiaclosings.com/wordpress/?p=7732
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