Anyone using a Cantar for over-the-shoulder work

[stef]

A production company I may be working for is looking into buying some
audio gear for a new reality show, and they were looking at the Cantar
as a possible recorder. Since this will be for over the shoulder work,
my question to those that already own one of these recorders is whether
it's practical (weight, size, ergonomics...) in a run and gun type
shoot. The production is considering the benefits of having more than
than four independent tracks (1 boom, two camera mics fed wirelessly to
the recorder, and a couple of wireless for talent), though I'm not sure
we will ever use up more than four channels. The SD744 would have been
my choice based on its small size.
Another question I had about the Cantar recorder is whether a seperate
mixer is needed. Can I route a stereo or mono mix to camera stright out
of the recorder and save myself the weight of an additional mixer.

Stephane

[Scott Farr]

No seperate mixer needed, waterproof, very easy over the shoulder, pots
for each track, multiple routing options, in use on multiple MTV, ABC,
FOX, Discovery primetime shows, Wireless control w/Palm via bluetooth.
Unlimited post editing and production reports with Majax software
(works on both Mac & PC). Battery life of 15 hours.

photo of Cantar with 8 wireless systems
http://jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=93.0;id=67;image

Post by stef
A production company I may be working for is looking into buying some
audio gear for a new reality show, and they were looking at the Cantar
as a possible recorder. Since this will be for over the shoulder work,
my question to those that already own one of these recorders is whether
it's practical (weight, size, ergonomics...) in a run and gun type
shoot. The production is considering the benefits of having more than
than four independent tracks (1 boom, two camera mics fed wirelessly to
the recorder, and a couple of wireless for talent), though I'm not sure
we will ever use up more than four channels. The SD744 would have been
my choice based on its small size.
Another question I had about the Cantar recorder is whether a seperate
mixer is needed. Can I route a stereo or mono mix to camera stright out
of the recorder and save myself the weight of an additional mixer.
Stephane

[h***@hotmail.com]

"Very easy over the shoulder"? Not on my shoulder! It takes three
NP1's just to power the beast.. When PortaBrace makes a wheelbarrow,
I'll use it.

So it goes.

Terry

Post by Scott Farr
No seperate mixer needed, waterproof, very easy over the shoulder, pots
for each track, multiple routing options, in use on multiple MTV, ABC,
FOX, Discovery primetime shows, Wireless control w/Palm via bluetooth.
Unlimited post editing and production reports with Majax software
(works on both Mac & PC). Battery life of 15 hours.
photo of Cantar with 8 wireless systems
http://jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=93.0;id=67;image

Post by stef
A production company I may be working for is looking into buying some
audio gear for a new reality show, and they were looking at the Cantar
as a possible recorder. Since this will be for over the shoulder work,
my question to those that already own one of these recorders is whether
it's practical (weight, size, ergonomics...) in a run and gun type
shoot. The production is considering the benefits of having more than
than four independent tracks (1 boom, two camera mics fed wirelessly to
the recorder, and a couple of wireless for talent), though I'm not sure
we will ever use up more than four channels. The SD744 would have been
my choice based on its small size.
Another question I had about the Cantar recorder is whether a seperate
mixer is needed. Can I route a stereo or mono mix to camera stright out
of the recorder and save myself the weight of an additional mixer.
Stephane

[Scott Farr]

I dont think I will be able to afford a Portabrace wheelbarrow.

Post by h***@hotmail.com
"Very easy over the shoulder"? Not on my shoulder! It takes three
NP1's just to power the beast.. When PortaBrace makes a wheelbarrow,
I'll use it.
So it goes.
Terry

Post by Scott Farr
No seperate mixer needed, waterproof, very easy over the shoulder, pots
for each track, multiple routing options, in use on multiple MTV, ABC,
FOX, Discovery primetime shows, Wireless control w/Palm via bluetooth.
Unlimited post editing and production reports with Majax software
(works on both Mac & PC). Battery life of 15 hours.
photo of Cantar with 8 wireless systems
http://jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=93.0;id=67;image

Post by stef
A production company I may be working for is looking into buying some
audio gear for a new reality show, and they were looking at the Cantar
as a possible recorder. Since this will be for over the shoulder work,
my question to those that already own one of these recorders is whether
it's practical (weight, size, ergonomics...) in a run and gun type
shoot. The production is considering the benefits of having more than
than four independent tracks (1 boom, two camera mics fed wirelessly to
the recorder, and a couple of wireless for talent), though I'm not sure
we will ever use up more than four channels. The SD744 would have been
my choice based on its small size.
Another question I had about the Cantar recorder is whether a seperate
mixer is needed. Can I route a stereo or mono mix to camera stright out
of the recorder and save myself the weight of an additional mixer.
Stephane

[S Harber]

Post by h***@hotmail.com
It takes three
NP1's just to power the beast..

Odd. I power it and as many wires as I need w/ 2 NP1s.

Scott Harber

[Jim Rillie]

Post by stef
A production company I may be working for is looking into buying some
audio gear for a new reality show, and they were looking at the Cantar
as a possible recorder. Since this will be for over the shoulder work,
my question to those that already own one of these recorders is whether
it's practical (weight, size, ergonomics...) in a run and gun type
shoot. The production is considering the benefits of having more than
than four independent tracks (1 boom, two camera mics fed wirelessly to
the recorder, and a couple of wireless for talent), though I'm not sure
we will ever use up more than four channels. The SD744 would have been
my choice based on its small size.
Another question I had about the Cantar recorder is whether a seperate
mixer is needed. Can I route a stereo or mono mix to camera stright out
of the recorder and save myself the weight of an additional mixer.
Stephane

Stephane,

The Cantar can do what you want. No other mixer needed. It's all there.
There is a learning curve
but it's well worth it. He/She is not light- 5 kilograms = 11 pounds.
Less than a Nagra.

I have used mine over the shoulder and like the concept. One machine
fits all. But it costs $.

My experience in the past 30 years has been that in some way you always
get what you pay for
if you go with industry standards.

Regards,
Jim Rillie

[Fernando]

Another option is the Deva IV or V (2,26 Kg)
Using two 65W Li-Ion NP1 you get 12 hours at 1 less Kilogram
But if size and weight is so important the 744T is a great option, I
think

Fernando

Post by stef
A production company I may be working for is looking into buying some
audio gear for a new reality show, and they were looking at the Cantar
as a possible recorder. Since this will be for over the shoulder work,
my question to those that already own one of these recorders is whether
it's practical (weight, size, ergonomics...) in a run and gun type
shoot. The production is considering the benefits of having more than
than four independent tracks (1 boom, two camera mics fed wirelessly to
the recorder, and a couple of wireless for talent), though I'm not sure
we will ever use up more than four channels. The SD744 would have been
my choice based on its small size.
Another question I had about the Cantar recorder is whether a seperate
mixer is needed. Can I route a stereo or mono mix to camera stright out
of the recorder and save myself the weight of an additional mixer.
Stephane

[°R•Œ €*Š*b€rt°•]

Post by stef
A production company I may be working for is looking into buying some
audio gear for a new reality show, and they were looking at the Cantar
as a possible recorder. Since this will be for over the shoulder work,
my question to those that already own one of these recorders is whether
it's practical (weight, size, ergonomics...) in a run and gun type
shoot.

some over-shoulder-examples ( without registering ) :

http://www.aaton.com/gallery/on-location/Antennen_Joe

http://www.aaton.com/gallery/on-location/Saldanha_Kamikia

and my all time favorite

http://www.aaton.com/gallery/on-location/Hajime_Takagi_Tokyo_TV_Center_LTD


R ( using his cantar more and more over-shoulder )






--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[adhocsound]

Stef,

There is a new "IDEQUATION" bag for Cantar specially designed for
over-shoulder work with many radio links.
You will see photographs following this link:
http://www.aaton.com/gallery/cantar_bag

I have three Cantars (serial #22, #144, #250).One for me and the others
for renting. My opinion is that's the best tool, specially if you look
to the post-production aspects: there is a lot of software tools with
the Cantar to simplify the editing and conformation work.

For hard days, I use harness. I have the "Kata" and the "Porta-Brace"
but the "Camrade" is the best.

Ergonomics is much better than DEVA and ther is no comparison with the
4 tracks Sound devices: with Cantar you can have 6 source tracks ant
two mix tracks for Camera feeds or editing work.

With two batteries you can expect 12-15 hours continuous. And the
Origin C+ and GMT-S are a very secure solution to sync from the mini-DV
cameras to the professional HD cameras.

Ther is a lot of TV series made with Cantars in Belgium.

Philippe Vandendriessche.
AD HOC Sound Services
Brussels, Belgium
http://www.adhocsound.be.tf

[Fernando]

Post by adhocsound
Ergonomics is much better than DEVA and ther is no comparison with the
4 tracks Sound devices: with Cantar you can have 6 source tracks ant
two mix tracks for Camera feeds or editing work.

I find Cantar's meters extremely uncomfortable to use (you have to
watch three meters plus the alphanumeric screen) and afaik you can't
visually monitor the level of 7&8.
I find Deva's user interface the most comfortable and helpful in the
usual panic moments, you find everything fast and easy. And you can
watch to 4 to 10 meters, as you need.
Cantar is beautiful though.

Post by adhocsound
With two batteries you can expect 12-15 hours continuous.

Same with Deva, but 1 Kg lighter

[adhocsound]

I agree, Cantar meters are less legible than the Deva display but when
working "over the shoulder" I have a lot of things to look at but the
meters...
Looking at Zaxcom Deva photo gallery I see only huge sound carts with a
lot of mixing consoles. At Cantar's photo gallery, you see a lot of
crazy Cantarists with their machines around neck. That's the difference!

[s***@simonbishop.com]

If you are working 1 x boom 2 x radios, and a couple of camera mics,
then I wonder why you dont find a way to make it work with a SD744. The
744 is way smaller, way lighter, and after a long runaround day would
be far, far easier on your back than either Cantar or Deva. The
difference in size is great, but the difference in weight is huge.
Would it not be possible to record the camera mics on the cameras,
leaving 4 x tracks available on the 744. You might need a 302 mixer to
get you decent level control for IPs 3 & 4, but again this is a tiny
unit that weighs next to nothing.

If you really do nee to go to greater track counts, and therefore
bigger machines, there are a few things to consider.

The Cantar has a built in 6 into 2 mixer with 6 x slider style faders,
that eneables you to mix a 2 channel 'guide' mix for post prod. This is
a great feature, and works very well in my experience. The Cantar is
also dead good inasmuchas it can 'remember' a number of configurations
that can be recalled at the turn of a knob wheely thing on the side.
This makes it very quick indeed to change from one configuration to
another. The flip side of this is that if you have not memorised the
configuration that you want to go to then it is clunky to set up a
configuration from scratch. It is possible to set up configurations
from a Palm type device and Bluetooth, but this relies on your Palm
device being handy and charged up. Cantar has only 5 mic IP's, and 4
line IP's - so be aware that if you want more of either then you need
to either pre amp up to line level, or pad down to mic level, which can
be a bit clunky.

The Deva 5 has an 8 into 2 mixer built in, and 8 x switchable mic/line
IPs. This allows easy configuration of IPs for sure. There are only 4 x
hardware knobs on the Deva, plus 4 x onscreen faders. You can assign
any fader to any IP channel, so this can work well so long as you
proritise which Ip's go to the knobs (i.e. are available for level
adjustment at all times). My Deva spends a lot of its time on my cart,
but I had a day on and around the London Underground yesterday and the
Deva was excellent. I was running 1 x boom, and 4 x radio mics, which I
receorded as Iso's plus a 2 channel mix. I sent a feed to headphones
via another radio and everything was good. The Deva used less than 1
NP1 for the morning, and another for the afternoon. Credit where it is
due - these machines are so lean on power that I find it incredible.
Both design teams should be congratulated on doing amazing stuff.. As
regards to routing and setup configurations. The Deva can also memorise
setups for recall later, but does have an advantage when it comes to
routing. The touch screen is a real bonus and timesaver here as the
graphical representation of IP's along the top and tracks along the
side makes it incredibly simple to alter the current setup by simply
touching the crosspoint. Its far easier to show than to explain but
suffice to say that if you set up a Cantar and a Deva to do the same
thing, and then changed your mind about the config, I would have the
Deva ready to go far quicker then the Cantar. This assumes that you are
changing to a new config which is not already in either machine's
memory. Be aware that there is a virtual Deva program that you can
download from the Zax website. This allows you to see and alter all the
setup and config screens as if on a real machine.

If you are seriously considering one of the bigger machines, then I
would consider all three (I am including HHB Portadrive here).
Portadrive has 6 x mic line switchable IP's plus an onboard 6 into 2
mixer which has 6 x knobs. Although Portadrive is heavier, and not as
sexy as Cantar, it is a good solid machine and has an advantage in
rushes delivery. If you are shooting many gigs of stuff each day then
you can put the PC docking station onto your post ingest machine and
plug the HDD's directly in. This makes for a very fast delivery of your
stuff, so long as you are geographically able to get the HDD's to and
from post.

I would definitely reccommend that you try all three machines
extensively before you buy. Are they likely to do a test shoot? It
might be worth having one of each machine for a test shoot and see how
they go.

Its not an easy decision to make as all of the machines are so good,
but I would start by working out whether you are heading for small or
large, and moving on from there.

How lucky you are to be spending someone else's money, spend it
wisely!!

Good luck - and please let us know which way you go.

Regards,

Simon B

Post by adhocsound
I agree, Cantar meters are less legible than the Deva display but when
working "over the shoulder" I have a lot of things to look at but the
meters...
Looking at Zaxcom Deva photo gallery I see only huge sound carts with a
lot of mixing consoles. At Cantar's photo gallery, you see a lot of
crazy Cantarists with their machines around neck. That's the difference!

[°R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•]

On 7 Jun 2006 03:06:38 -0700, ***@simonbishop.com schreef:

Snipped the usual.


Simon, A longer or shorter learning curve is not an argument used by
professional mixers.

I would know many arguments to promote your Deva in various ways,
without ever mentioning any other brand, or machine.
The Deva has it;s specific quality's, but comparing it to a Cantar is
like comparing a Sedan to a Land cruiser.

R

.





--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[martin griffith]

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 01:07:35 +0200, in
rec.arts.movies.production.sound °R¤¼ •*¦*b€rt°•

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Snipped the usual.
Simon, A longer or shorter learning curve is not an argument used by
professional mixers.
I would know many arguments to promote your Deva in various ways,
without ever mentioning any other brand, or machine.
The Deva has it;s specific quality's, but comparing it to a Cantar is
like comparing a Sedan to a Land cruiser.
R

So, what the Hummer of audio mixers?


martin

[s***@simonbishop.com]

Hi Roberto,

I am confused. You say

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Snipped the usual.

The usual what? I could say much the same of you!

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Simon, A longer or shorter learning curve is not an argument used by
professional mixers.

I didnt mention the lerning curve in my post at all. Perhaps you are
confusing me with someone else?

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
I would know many arguments to promote your Deva in various ways,
without ever mentioning any other brand, or machine.
The Deva has it;s specific quality's, but comparing it to a Cantar is
like comparing a Sedan to a Land cruiser.

Not sure if you read my post correctly - maybe it is a language thing.
I thought I had written to try and show some of the good points of both
Cantar, Portadrive, and Deva. I have after all owned and worked with
all three - I am not so sure that you are lucky enough to be able to
state the same. If I am not correct you own a Cantar, but have only
used Portadrive or Deva 4/5 very briefly.

I presume that you equate your Cantar to a Sedan, and my Deva to a Land
Cruiser? Not so sure that that is such a great comparison. My Land
Cruiser works just fine on your autobahns, but will your Sedan be of
much use off road, cross country, in the mud, across the river, or in
the desert? Or did I read you the wrong way round, in which case I
simply disagree.

Have we not strayed rather from Stephane's original question?

I still think that it looks to me like a SD744 might be a better bet
for what they want to do on that shoot - I think we are saying that
they might prefer a VW golf rather than either Sedan or Land
Cruiser;-))

Keep a beer cold for me - I might be over soon!!

Kindest Regards,

Simon B

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
.
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[Scott Farr]

If you want to talk about being off topic the orignal question was 744T
or Cantar only.

Post by s***@simonbishop.com
Hi Roberto,
I am confused. You say

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Snipped the usual.

The usual what? I could say much the same of you!

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Simon, A longer or shorter learning curve is not an argument used by
professional mixers.

I didnt mention the lerning curve in my post at all. Perhaps you are
confusing me with someone else?

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
I would know many arguments to promote your Deva in various ways,
without ever mentioning any other brand, or machine.
The Deva has it;s specific quality's, but comparing it to a Cantar is
like comparing a Sedan to a Land cruiser.

Not sure if you read my post correctly - maybe it is a language thing.
I thought I had written to try and show some of the good points of both
Cantar, Portadrive, and Deva. I have after all owned and worked with
all three - I am not so sure that you are lucky enough to be able to
state the same. If I am not correct you own a Cantar, but have only
used Portadrive or Deva 4/5 very briefly.
I presume that you equate your Cantar to a Sedan, and my Deva to a Land
Cruiser? Not so sure that that is such a great comparison. My Land
Cruiser works just fine on your autobahns, but will your Sedan be of
much use off road, cross country, in the mud, across the river, or in
the desert? Or did I read you the wrong way round, in which case I
simply disagree.
Have we not strayed rather from Stephane's original question?
I still think that it looks to me like a SD744 might be a better bet
for what they want to do on that shoot - I think we are saying that
they might prefer a VW golf rather than either Sedan or Land
Cruiser;-))
Keep a beer cold for me - I might be over soon!!
Kindest Regards,
Simon B

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
.
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[Oleg Kaizerman]

if I have to be on topic I usually pass on some people answers and Simon
doesn't include in
--
Oleg Kaizerman (gebe) Hollyland

Post by Scott Farr
If you want to talk about being off topic the orignal question was 744T
or Cantar only.

Post by s***@simonbishop.com
Hi Roberto,
I am confused. You say

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Snipped the usual.

The usual what? I could say much the same of you!

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Simon, A longer or shorter learning curve is not an argument used by
professional mixers.

I didnt mention the lerning curve in my post at all. Perhaps you are
confusing me with someone else?

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
I would know many arguments to promote your Deva in various ways,
without ever mentioning any other brand, or machine.
The Deva has it;s specific quality's, but comparing it to a Cantar is
like comparing a Sedan to a Land cruiser.

Not sure if you read my post correctly - maybe it is a language thing.
I thought I had written to try and show some of the good points of both
Cantar, Portadrive, and Deva. I have after all owned and worked with
all three - I am not so sure that you are lucky enough to be able to
state the same. If I am not correct you own a Cantar, but have only
used Portadrive or Deva 4/5 very briefly.
I presume that you equate your Cantar to a Sedan, and my Deva to a Land
Cruiser? Not so sure that that is such a great comparison. My Land
Cruiser works just fine on your autobahns, but will your Sedan be of
much use off road, cross country, in the mud, across the river, or in
the desert? Or did I read you the wrong way round, in which case I
simply disagree.
Have we not strayed rather from Stephane's original question?
I still think that it looks to me like a SD744 might be a better bet
for what they want to do on that shoot - I think we are saying that
they might prefer a VW golf rather than either Sedan or Land
Cruiser;-))
Keep a beer cold for me - I might be over soon!!
Kindest Regards,
Simon B

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
.
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[Boomboom]

mmm... thinking about weight, without batteries :

1x Cantar : 3,2 Kg / 7.5 lbs
2x 744s : 2,4Kg / 5.2 lbs

Not taking into account:

- overall size
- running time (batteries)
- "mixing comfort" (faders vs. knobs)
- the end of the day : what's the delivery : have to download something
in order to consider your day off ? Haven't check this out for both
mixers, but think you have to with the 744, nope ? (unless the
production provides the flash cards?) (haven't checked, like I said...)
- lots of other things I heven't think of yet...

[Boomboom]

mmm... thinking about weight, without batteries :

1x Cantar : 3,2 Kg / 7.5 lbs
2x 744s : 2,4Kg / 5.2 lbs

Not taking into account:

- overall size
- running time (batteries)
- "mixing comfort" (faders vs. knobs)
- the end of the day : what's the delivery : have to download something
in order to consider your day off ? Haven't check this out for both
mixers, but think you have to with the 744, nope ? (unless the
production provides the flash cards?) (haven't checked, like I said...)
- lots of other things I heven't think of yet...

[Paulo Ricardo Nunes]

And what about the Fostex PD-6?
6 tracks mic/line
1 NP1 battery
1 stereo bus
sound report inside
portabrace ready
nice display
easy PFL button
reliable machine
2 hirose DC 12v good for wireless mics
1 line out per track

Regards

Paulo Ricardo Nunes

[°R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•]

Post by s***@simonbishop.com
Hi Roberto,
I am confused. You say

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Snipped the usual.

The usual what? I could say much the same of you!

http://www.firstsense.net/docs/aaton_firstsense_pinewood_trim.wmv

that should do the talking.

And no, the Cantar is the Landcruiser. Once you worked with a rain,
sand and snow proof recorder, you never want anything else.


R ( by the way, didn;t know you are the UK Deva salesrep. )





--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[s***@simonbishop.com]

I could of course level that I didnt know that you are the Dutch Cantar
salesrep.

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
R ( by the way, didn;t know you are the UK Deva salesrep. )

As you well know I am not the UK sales rep for Deva. Just a happy
customer.

Kindest regards,

Simon B

[°R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•]

Post by s***@simonbishop.com
I could of course level that I didnt know that you are the Dutch Cantar
salesrep.

www.noyzboyz.nl

Post by s***@simonbishop.com

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
R ( by the way, didn;t know you are the UK Deva salesrep. )

As you well know I am not the UK sales rep for Deva. Just a happy
customer.

I ask that, since that is mentioned in that video.


R






--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[s***@simonbishop.com]

Now you should better than to believe what you see and hear on a video.

It was certainly not I that mentioned any connection with the UK Deva
dealers.

In fact that is Everything Audio, Roger Patel, a very fine fellow. I
have no connection with them whatsoever, other than I keep emptying my
wallet in their direction to buy more Devas, and that occassionally
Roger and I have a beer (wine in his case) after work.

I am sure that you have shared a glass with the folks at Noyzboyz in
your time. I would far rather get on with my dealers like friends n'est
pas?

Kindest,

sb

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•

Post by s***@simonbishop.com
As you well know I am not the UK sales rep for Deva. Just a happy
customer.

I ask that, since that is mentioned in that video.
R
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[°R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•]

Post by s***@simonbishop.com
Now you should better than to believe what you see and hear on a video.

fair enough.

Now, back to the subject.
Here is a nice thread about the Deva and reality TV, that tells more
then enough about that part.
http://tinyurl.com/ez79e

About the Cantar.
i just finished a commercial with 3 TX, a boom, a stereo mic, the
whole blabla, and over shoulder. Routing is the last thing i worried
about on a day like that Simon, stable Timecode, battery's, the
ability to ride more gains, make a -P mix, mic inputs, HP filters,
thats the stuff that counts, since that is what i hear back on TV.



R





--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[Billy Sarokin]

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Once you worked with a rain,
sand and snow proof recorder, you never want anything else.

R ( by the way, didn;t know you are the UK Deva salesrep. )


Unless you want 10 tracks, 8 Mic inputs, 8 digital inputs, touch
screen, light weight and all controls on one face.

B (not a Deva sales rep, just a very hapy user, twice over... who by
the way has used the Deva in extremes of all the above conditions and
miraculously survived).

[°R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•]

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•
Once you worked with a rain,
sand and snow proof recorder, you never want anything else.

R ( by the way, didn;t know you are the UK Deva salesrep. )
Unless you want 10 tracks, 8 Mic inputs, 8 digital inputs, touch
screen, light weight and all controls on one face.
B (not a Deva sales rep, just a very hapy user, twice over... who by
the way has used the Deva in extremes of all the above conditions and
miraculously survived).

time to leave the thread i see.

Plonk.

R







--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[stef]

Thanks to everyone for their replies... and pictures. It's obvious to
me that a large number of Cantar owners use this recorder frequently,
and effectively, in over-the-shoulder work. I'm still not sure what
recorder I will end up using. I was hoping to get more info about the
project and the gear that "we" will be purchasing before posting here
again, but for now, I'm still waiting to hear back from production.
If the Cantar works perfectly well on its own with no mixer (that is,
unless more than 9 inputs are needed), is it safe to assume the same
applies to a Deva IV and V?

Stephane

[Billy Sarokin]

stef wrote:
is it safe to assume the same

Post by stef
applies to a Deva IV and V?
Stephane

Hi Stepf,
The Deva and Cantar are 2 very different design concepts that in the
end get you to the same place. Try to get all the applicable machines
to demo. The dealers or manufacturers should cooperate. You won't go
wrong whatever machine you get the show to purchase.
Good luck!
Billy Sarokin

[soundchris]

Post by s***@simonbishop.com
Have we not strayed rather from Stephane's original question?
Since this will be for over the shoulder work,
my question to those that already own one of these recorders
is whether
it's practical (weight, size, ergonomics...) in a run and gun type
shoot.

Sic!
cheers,
Christian

[adhocsound]

Stephane,

Where are you located?
In Belgium, I explain the use of Cantar and the belgian distributor has
a machine for demonstrations. You need some 2 hours to explore all the
menus and functions and after that you can work without problems in any
configuration. In the film school I'm teaching we have a Cantar since 2
years for the students and in our small country we have more than 20
Cantars owned by the key location mixers. We have a "Cantar Community"
and the positive point is the editors begin to know very well the
process with Cantar files so there is a kind of "standard". All the
different HDD ou CARD based multitrack machines on the market (AATON,
ZAXCOM, FOSTEX, SOUND DEVICES, HHB, TASCAM, NAGRA...) complicates the
life of post-production people but some machines are smarter and have
better solutions from recording to sound conformation and mixing. See
the editors you work with what are the less ennoying systems. About
ergonomics, don't forget the touch screens need to use your eyes and
fingers and it is difficult when working over shoulder. Recorders and
mixers should have been designed for blind persons, with the same
"tactile feedback" than "good old Nagras". Cantar is someting very
close to that philosophy. Debate is overwarming when turning "Deva
against Cantar" and looks like integrism. I think the best is rent the
tool you need for the job you do. And if you want to buy a machine, you
should know there is better machines for some specific jobs: they are
not all the same. In the case you describe, I know the job can be
perfectly done with a Cantar (my first choice). But there is a lot of
other solutions. Depending if you are sensitive to one kilogram more or
less, if you work looking at the needles or if you look and listen the
sound sources...
Don't hesitate to do trial of two or three machines: you will have
tools to lower the prices talking about the concurrence...
Good luck.

Philippe Vandendriessche
http://www.adhocsound.be.tf

[Scott Farr]

This is what I have been trying to say...


"About ergonomics, don't forget the touch screens need to use your eyes
and fingers and it is difficult when working over shoulder. Recorders
and mixers should have been designed for blind persons, with the same
"tactile feedback" than "good old Nagras".

[°R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•]

Post by Scott Farr
This is what I have been trying to say...
"About ergonomics, don't forget the touch screens need to use your eyes
and fingers and it is difficult when working over shoulder. Recorders
and mixers should have been designed for blind persons, with the same
"tactile feedback" than "good old Nagras".

Why...anyone that ever ran around with a recorder around his or her
neck will understand that it is the only bigger machine that actually
is designed with Over/shoulder ergonomics in mind.


R ( who loves to see a soundguy, riding a touchscreen fader, or
adjusting the sub gain in a menu, whilst having a boom in his hand. )






--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[Billy Sarokin]

Hmmmm, thought you left the thread. But what R brings up is precisely
why the Deva has 4 large fader pots. Glenn consulted many sound mixers
while designing the Deva and the consensus was that if you are over the
shoulder with a boom in one hand, you probably would not be mixing more
than 4 mics anyway (in most cases... of course there are always
exceptions and no machine can be everything for everybody all of the
time) so it was felt that 4 large faders were the best compromise
between size, ease of use, and practicality.

The touch screen can be pre-set for whatever mode you are in. You can
show meters for just the tracks you are working with or set the display
to show additional touch screen faders. So instead of showing 10 small
tracks for instance, the display can be set to show 4 large ones (or
any other number). Many mixers love it, and some don't. And don't
forget, there are many other options. The HHB, SD and Fostex machines,
etc, so whereever you are located, find a good dealer or have the
production send you on an all expense paid trip to NY, LA, London,
Paris, etc.... If you are near NY, Gotham Sound carries all the above
machines, so sounds (no pun intended) like a win-win situation :-)
Get a good education AND a free trip to some great city in spring time.
Billy Sarokin

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•

Post by Scott Farr
This is what I have been trying to say...
"About ergonomics, don't forget the touch screens need to use your eyes
and fingers and it is difficult when working over shoulder. Recorders
and mixers should have been designed for blind persons, with the same
"tactile feedback" than "good old Nagras".

Why...anyone that ever ran around with a recorder around his or her
neck will understand that it is the only bigger machine that actually
is designed with Over/shoulder ergonomics in mind.
R ( who loves to see a soundguy, riding a touchscreen fader, or
adjusting the sub gain in a menu, whilst having a boom in his hand. )
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[Scott Farr]

I have looked the deva and I know that in a setup with 8 wireless
running and a boom the last thing I would want to do is have to fool
around with looking down at the screen. I have talked with other mixers
who have tried this and were really not happy with it for that reason.

Since this thread was started about the puse of a 744T or a Cantar why
are we having the same deva & cantar debate?

Post by Billy Sarokin
Hmmmm, thought you left the thread. But what R brings up is precisely
why the Deva has 4 large fader pots. Glenn consulted many sound mixers
while designing the Deva and the consensus was that if you are over the
shoulder with a boom in one hand, you probably would not be mixing more
than 4 mics anyway (in most cases... of course there are always
exceptions and no machine can be everything for everybody all of the
time) so it was felt that 4 large faders were the best compromise
between size, ease of use, and practicality.
The touch screen can be pre-set for whatever mode you are in. You can
show meters for just the tracks you are working with or set the display
to show additional touch screen faders. So instead of showing 10 small
tracks for instance, the display can be set to show 4 large ones (or
any other number). Many mixers love it, and some don't. And don't
forget, there are many other options. The HHB, SD and Fostex machines,
etc, so whereever you are located, find a good dealer or have the
production send you on an all expense paid trip to NY, LA, London,
Paris, etc.... If you are near NY, Gotham Sound carries all the above
machines, so sounds (no pun intended) like a win-win situation :-)
Get a good education AND a free trip to some great city in spring time.
Billy Sarokin

Post by °R€Œ •*Š*b€rt°•

Post by Scott Farr
This is what I have been trying to say...
"About ergonomics, don't forget the touch screens need to use your eyes
and fingers and it is difficult when working over shoulder. Recorders
and mixers should have been designed for blind persons, with the same
"tactile feedback" than "good old Nagras".

Why...anyone that ever ran around with a recorder around his or her
neck will understand that it is the only bigger machine that actually
is designed with Over/shoulder ergonomics in mind.
R ( who loves to see a soundguy, riding a touchscreen fader, or
adjusting the sub gain in a menu, whilst having a boom in his hand. )
--
Http://www.xs4all.nl/~tuig/index.html

[Billy Sarokin]

Well there we have it. Case closed. 8 wireless and a boom. 9
channels. Only option is the Deva. Thanks Scott. Your chiropractor
asked me to thank you too.
Billy

Post by Scott Farr
I have looked the deva and I know that in a setup with 8 wireless
running and a boom the last thing I would want to do is have to fool
around with looking down at the screen. I have talked with other mixers
who have tried this and were really not happy with it for that reason.
Since this thread was started about the puse of a 744T or a Cantar why
are we having the same deva & cantar debate?