OT: an odd experience at a supermarket

[Mike Ruddock]

For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
for a joint meal at a local supermarket. Attendance was varied:
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)

This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.

Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.

Mike Ruddock

[Vicky Ayech]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 08:39:23 +0100, Mike Ruddock

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

It is odd but they don't have the system to go and get food, a way to
pay for it and prepare and cook it. They are probably not allowed to
inovate. Which supermarket?

[Penny]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 08:39:23 +0100, Mike Ruddock

Post by Mike Ruddock
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.

I think there is a world of difference between "a guaranteed source" and
"food not fit to eat". Restaurants these days have to know (and document)
all the ingredients of the food they serve. I imagine a cafe in a
supermarket does very little actual 'cooking'. They may prepare fresh
salads, cook eggs and deep fry on the premises but everything else is just
reheated and they can rely on complying with food allergen legislation for
those items on the menu.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 08:39:23 +0100, Mike Ruddock

Post by Mike Ruddock
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.

I think there is a world of difference between "a guaranteed source" and
"food not fit to eat". Restaurants these days have to know (and document)
all the ingredients of the food they serve. I imagine a cafe in a
supermarket does very little actual 'cooking'. They may prepare fresh
salads, cook eggs and deep fry on the premises but everything else is just
reheated and they can rely on complying with food allergen legislation for
those items on the menu.

The most recent time I ate a meal in a supermarket cafe they made a
point of emphasising that all the food in the cafe came straight out of
the store. I think the supermarket must have been Somerfield so you
already know that most recent isn't very recent at all. But I don't
recall wading through the dead bodies of ansphylactic shock victims to
get to the till so I guess the food they sold to supermarket customers
must have been good enough.

Nick

[Penny]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 15:24:46 +0100, Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell
The most recent time I ate a meal in a supermarket cafe they made a
point of emphasising that all the food in the cafe came straight out of
the store. I think the supermarket must have been Somerfield so you
already know that most recent isn't very recent at all. But I don't
recall wading through the dead bodies of ansphylactic shock victims to
get to the till so I guess the food they sold to supermarket customers
must have been good enough.

New legislation about allergens came in a couple of years ago. Prior to
that, anyone with serious food allergies probably just avoided eating out.

D#1 always chooses where we eat when we're out - both she and one of her
daughters have problems after eating certain foods. Nothing
life-threatening but unwise eating can have quite an effect upon their
lives.

She uses an app which includes comments from customers and seems very
useful. Problems do occur from time to time (presumably she records them in
the app) but generally speaking this and the legislation have helped
enormously and restaurant chefs and staff are (largely) far more clued up
on the whole issue and know how to avoid cross-contamination.

[Mike]

Post by Penny
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 15:24:46 +0100, Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell
The most recent time I ate a meal in a supermarket cafe they made a
point of emphasising that all the food in the cafe came straight out of
the store. I think the supermarket must have been Somerfield so you
already know that most recent isn't very recent at all. But I don't
recall wading through the dead bodies of ansphylactic shock victims to
get to the till so I guess the food they sold to supermarket customers
must have been good enough.

New legislation about allergens came in a couple of years ago. Prior to
that, anyone with serious food allergies probably just avoided eating out.
D#1 always chooses where we eat when we're out - both she and one of her
daughters have problems after eating certain foods. Nothing
life-threatening but unwise eating can have quite an effect upon their
lives.
She uses an app which includes comments from customers and seems very
useful. Problems do occur from time to time (presumably she records them in
the app) but generally speaking this and the legislation have helped
enormously and restaurant chefs and staff are (largely) far more clued up
on the whole issue and know how to avoid cross-contamination.

Installed on my iPhone (but not actually used in anger yet) is an app
called Kafoodle (free); this could be a great aid to anyone in your
situation.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Mike

Post by Penny
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 15:24:46 +0100, Nick Odell

Post by Nick Odell
The most recent time I ate a meal in a supermarket cafe they made a
point of emphasising that all the food in the cafe came straight out of
the store. I think the supermarket must have been Somerfield so you
already know that most recent isn't very recent at all. But I don't
recall wading through the dead bodies of ansphylactic shock victims to
get to the till so I guess the food they sold to supermarket customers
must have been good enough.

New legislation about allergens came in a couple of years ago. Prior to
that, anyone with serious food allergies probably just avoided eating out.
D#1 always chooses where we eat when we're out - both she and one of her
daughters have problems after eating certain foods. Nothing
life-threatening but unwise eating can have quite an effect upon their
lives.
She uses an app which includes comments from customers and seems very
useful. Problems do occur from time to time (presumably she records them in
the app) but generally speaking this and the legislation have helped
enormously and restaurant chefs and staff are (largely) far more clued up
on the whole issue and know how to avoid cross-contamination.

Installed on my iPhone (but not actually used in anger yet) is an app
called Kafoodle (free); this could be a great aid to anyone in your
situation.

And I looked at them a little while ago and it said ‘site under
construction’ and it still is. Not good when you first hear of them on the
televisual device.

Sincerely Chris

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

If you wrote a play or a book no publisher would touch it!

Sincerely Chris

[John Finlay]

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

If you wrote a play or a book no publisher would touch it!
Sincerely Chris

Name the company please.

[Mike Ruddock]

Post by John Finlay

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

If you wrote a play or a book no publisher would touch it!
Sincerely Chris

Name the company please.

I am in the process of writing (an actual letter!) to the company
concerned and will post here the response and tell you who they are.
There may be something of a wait involved.

Mike Ruddock

[Mike]

Post by Mike Ruddock

Post by John Finlay

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

If you wrote a play or a book no publisher would touch it!
Sincerely Chris

Name the company please.

I am in the process of writing (an actual letter!) to the company
concerned and will post here the response and tell you who they are.
There may be something of a wait involved.
Mike Ruddock

They need more beepueses then.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Mike Ruddock

Post by John Finlay

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

If you wrote a play or a book no publisher would touch it!
Sincerely Chris

Name the company please.

I am in the process of writing (an actual letter!) to the company
concerned and will post here the response and tell you who they are.
There may be something of a wait involved.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet?

Nick

[Mike]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Mike Ruddock

Post by John Finlay

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

If you wrote a play or a book no publisher would touch it!
Sincerely Chris

Name the company please.

I am in the process of writing (an actual letter!) to the company
concerned and will post here the response and tell you who they are.
There may be something of a wait involved.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet?
Nick

You must ‘Wait’ to find out I think.

[Flop]

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

Local (v. large) Sainsburys is the same.

In-store cafe with 3/4 selection of buns.

Outside, there are racks of cakes/buns/nibbles etc. (And 'no' you cannot
eat them in the cafe*).

Possibly, the cafe is franchised but I do not think so.

* I do wonder though if you can take your coffee out into the store and
enjoy pre-purchased muffins.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare, >that)

Sounds nice - and nice that the staff are nice too.

Post by Mike Ruddock
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that
shop was.

This is not unusual. I eat (when I get there before they close) at the
only one of my local supermarkets that has a caff, on my weekly shop;
occasionally my default choice is off, because they've run out of one of
the ingredients. I have expressed similar surprise, though haven't been
given the same explanation (or any, really); I presume they just operate
as separate entities, with separate supply chains.

Post by Mike Ruddock
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

You can always tell them (you'll need your till receipt, though the one
from your shop in the grocery part will do, probably better): for
Sainsburys it's https://www.lettuce-know.com/ (!), for Tesco
www.tescoviews.com . (Both give something - I think it's entry into a
draw for both, and Tesco also give you some points - for filling it in.)
I don't know for Waitrose or Morrisons.

jpeg
--


Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.

(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)

[Penny]

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 12:36:51 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You can always tell them (you'll need your till receipt, though the one
from your shop in the grocery part will do, probably better): for
Sainsburys it's https://www.lettuce-know.com/ (!), for Tesco
www.tescoviews.com . (Both give something - I think it's entry into a
draw for both, and Tesco also give you some points - for filling it in.)
I don't know for Waitrose or Morrisons.

I frequently tell Morrisons 'how they did' - not always because I have
something to complain about.

I told them several times running that I thought offering 10 different
packs of frozen peas but zero packs of frozen broad beans wasn't good
enough (I used to buy them there). Nothing changed but I did find some in
Tesco.

[Fenny]

Post by Penny
I told them several times running that I thought offering 10 different
packs of frozen peas but zero packs of frozen broad beans wasn't good
enough (I used to buy them there). Nothing changed but I did find some in
Tesco.

I have commented several times in my local Waitrose that there is a
lack of own brand tinned fruit - specifically pears and peaches. One
of my fellow martial artists works for W/R and is transferring back to
our local store next week, so I shall be seeking a slightly more
fulsome explanation.

[Mike Ruddock]

Post by Fenny

Post by Penny
I told them several times running that I thought offering 10 different
packs of frozen peas but zero packs of frozen broad beans wasn't good
enough (I used to buy them there). Nothing changed but I did find some in
Tesco.

I have commented several times in my local Waitrose that there is a
lack of own brand tinned fruit - specifically pears and peaches. One
of my fellow martial artists works for W/R and is transferring back to
our local store next week, so I shall be seeking a slightly more
fulsome explanation.

Fenny, I think you should look up the definition of "fulsome" in a good
dictionary. I hope you won't be offended by this pedantic quibble, and
it may be that you were using the word correctly having already received
a bland, smarmy, sickening etc reply from the store.

Mike Ruddock

[Fenny]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:47:18 +0100, Mike Ruddock

Post by Mike Ruddock

Post by Fenny
I have commented several times in my local Waitrose that there is a
lack of own brand tinned fruit - specifically pears and peaches. One
of my fellow martial artists works for W/R and is transferring back to
our local store next week, so I shall be seeking a slightly more
fulsome explanation.

Fenny, I think you should look up the definition of "fulsome" in a good
dictionary. I hope you won't be offended by this pedantic quibble, and
it may be that you were using the word correctly having already received
a bland, smarmy, sickening etc reply from the store.

Mirriam Webster, she say:
Definition of fulsome
1a : characterized by abundance : COPIOUS
describes in fulsome detail
— G. N. Shuster
fulsome bird life. The feeder overcrowded
— Maxine Kumin
b : generous in amount, extent, or spirit
the passengers were fulsome in praise of the plane's crew
— Don Oliver
a fulsome victory for the far left
— Bruce Rothwell
the greetings have been fulsome, the farewells tender
— Simon Gray
c : being full and well developed
she was in generally fulsome, limpid voice
— Thor Eckert, Jr.

Anything more expansive than "Not really sure" gets my vote.

[BrritSki]

Post by Fenny
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:47:18 +0100, Mike Ruddock

Post by Mike Ruddock

Post by Fenny
I have commented several times in my local Waitrose that there is a
lack of own brand tinned fruit - specifically pears and peaches. One
of my fellow martial artists works for W/R and is transferring back to
our local store next week, so I shall be seeking a slightly more
fulsome explanation.

Fenny, I think you should look up the definition of "fulsome" in a good
dictionary. I hope you won't be offended by this pedantic quibble, and
it may be that you were using the word correctly having already received
a bland, smarmy, sickening etc reply from the store.

Mike did say a GOOD dictionary, and I think he meant English too ;)

[Nick Odell]

Post by Fenny
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 12:47:18 +0100, Mike Ruddock

Post by Mike Ruddock

Post by Fenny
I have commented several times in my local Waitrose that there is a
lack of own brand tinned fruit - specifically pears and peaches. One
of my fellow martial artists works for W/R and is transferring back to
our local store next week, so I shall be seeking a slightly more
fulsome explanation.

Fenny, I think you should look up the definition of "fulsome" in a good
dictionary. I hope you won't be offended by this pedantic quibble, and
it may be that you were using the word correctly having already received
a bland, smarmy, sickening etc reply from the store.

Mike did say a GOOD dictionary, and I think he meant English too  ;)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08qxd02

Nick

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Fenny

Post by Penny
I told them several times running that I thought offering 10 different
packs of frozen peas but zero packs of frozen broad beans wasn't good
enough (I used to buy them there). Nothing changed but I did find some in
Tesco.

I have commented several times in my local Waitrose that there is a
lack of own brand tinned fruit - specifically pears and peaches. One
of my fellow martial artists works for W/R and is transferring back to
our local store next week, so I shall be seeking a slightly more
fulsome explanation.

I don't know about Waitrose, but Tescbury are for a lot of things
"inventing" a brand, rather than using their own name, so it might be
worth looking twice. (Lidl have always done this: named brands are the
exception there, but the other stuff is under obscure names. If you pick
them up and look at them, "made exclusively for Lidl" or similar will be
in the small print; I don't think they do anything branded "Lidl". [I'm
guessing Aldi might be similar.]) Sainsbury's brand (or one of them -
frozen ready meals anyway) is "Stamford St. Food Company"; I don't have
anything Tesco at the moment, but they use the same name for quite a lot
of products, I just can't remember it. One of Lidl's is "Crownfield".

jpeg
--


Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.

(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)

[Penny]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:51:00 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don't know about Waitrose, but Tescbury are for a lot of things
"inventing" a brand, rather than using their own name, so it might be
worth looking twice. (Lidl have always done this: named brands are the
exception there, but the other stuff is under obscure names. If you pick
them up and look at them, "made exclusively for Lidl" or similar will be
in the small print; I don't think they do anything branded "Lidl". [I'm
guessing Aldi might be similar.]) Sainsbury's brand (or one of them -
frozen ready meals anyway) is "Stamford St. Food Company"; I don't have
anything Tesco at the moment, but they use the same name for quite a lot
of products, I just can't remember it. One of Lidl's is "Crownfield".

Rowan Hill bakery is one of Lidl's. I used to like their sliced wholemeal
but then it suddenly became pappy and too sweet. Staff informed me the old
version was made by Kingsmill but they'd switched to Hovis. I couldn't find
any Kingsmill wholemeal elsewhere but then the bread turned up again
labelled as Tesco and only slightly more expensive.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Penny
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:51:00 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don't know about Waitrose, but Tescbury are for a lot of things
"inventing" a brand, rather than using their own name, so it might be
worth looking twice. (Lidl have always done this: named brands are the
exception there, but the other stuff is under obscure names. If you pick
them up and look at them, "made exclusively for Lidl" or similar will be
in the small print; I don't think they do anything branded "Lidl". [I'm
guessing Aldi might be similar.]) Sainsbury's brand (or one of them -
frozen ready meals anyway) is "Stamford St. Food Company"; I don't have
anything Tesco at the moment, but they use the same name for quite a lot
of products, I just can't remember it. One of Lidl's is "Crownfield".

Rowan Hill bakery is one of Lidl's. I used to like their sliced wholemeal
but then it suddenly became pappy and too sweet. Staff informed me the old
version was made by Kingsmill but they'd switched to Hovis. I couldn't find
any Kingsmill wholemeal elsewhere but then the bread turned up again
labelled as Tesco and only slightly more expensive.

Lidl tend to use lots of names depending on product type - Rowan Hill
for bread, Crownfield for cereals, Snaktastic for crisps, Freeway for
orangeade and similar fizzies, Natura for fruit juice, Freshona for
jarred (?) vegetable (I like their beetroot), Sol Mar for anything
nominally Spanish, Dulano and Warren & Sons for processed meat,
Birchwood for fresh meat, Mister Choc for chocolate, Oakwood for
strawberries, Simply for the few things actually packaged to look
budget, Cien for cosmetics, Livarno/Auriol/Silver Crest (among others?)
for electricals, Ultimate Speed for automotive, Formil for detergent,
Alesto for dried fruit, Belbake for sugar etc., Newgate for tins and
packets, and probably many others. They're all Lidl really.

Morrisons use Market Street for fresh meat, but do put their own name
too.

Sainsburys I've only noticed in the frozen ready meals using this
"Stamford St" name (along with a _reduction_ in price to 90p, without
AFAICS any reduction in quality or quantity); their
butter/teacakes/ricecakes, for example, is still just "by Sainsburys".
Though I think it may be something farm for fresh meat.

I think Tesco are introducing their new pretend name across the board
for all their products; I've certainly noticed it on both coffee and
things very different from coffee. Oh, "Hearty Food Co" for frozen ready
meals, but that's not the same name as the coffee etcetera.

ASDA seem to still be using their own name on their own-brand stuff.

Bread: I tend to alternate loaves between (white) Warburtons "Blackpool
Milk Roll" (I like the taste, and the unusual round slices!) and (brown)
WW "Malted Danish" (again, I like the taste); both are stocked by my
local Sains and Tesc, though both often seem to have run out, and I
_always_ seem to have to hunt for them.

jpeg
--


Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.

(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)

[John Ashby]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I think Tesco are introducing their new pretend name across the board
for all their products; I've certainly noticed it on both coffee and
things very different from coffee. Oh, "Hearty Food Co" for frozen ready
meals, but that's not the same name as the coffee etcetera.

T E Stockwell [1] which was the name of the grocer Jack Cohen took over
to start the firm.

john

[1] As opposed to D H Stockwell, maker of Lady Chatterley's Liver Pate.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by John Ashby

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I think Tesco are introducing their new pretend name across the
board for all their products; I've certainly noticed it on both
coffee and things very different from coffee. Oh, "Hearty Food Co"
for frozen ready meals, but that's not the same name as the coffee
etcetera.

T E Stockwell [1] which was the name of the grocer Jack Cohen took over
to start the firm.

That's the one! (Oh, I see - T E S Co.) Yes, they seem to be putting it
on things rather than Tesco.

Post by John Ashby
john
[1] As opposed to D H Stockwell, maker of Lady Chatterley's Liver Pate.

I'm sure there is something UMRAtic to say there, but can't think of it
- Mike? Brittski?

(And why do we say pate - or pâté - rather than paste?)

[Mike]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by John Ashby

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I think Tesco are introducing their new pretend name across the
board for all their products; I've certainly noticed it on both
coffee and things very different from coffee. Oh, "Hearty Food Co"
for frozen ready meals, but that's not the same name as the coffee
etcetera.

T E Stockwell [1] which was the name of the grocer Jack Cohen took over
to start the firm.

That's the one! (Oh, I see - T E S Co.) Yes, they seem to be putting it
on things rather than Tesco.

Post by John Ashby
john
[1] As opposed to D H Stockwell, maker of Lady Chatterley's Liver Pate.

I'm sure there is something UMRAtic to say there, but can't think of it
- Mike? Brittski?
(And why do we say pate - or pâté - rather than paste?)

I know there is, or maybe was, a Cliffords Dairy, but I’m not sure about a
Mellors product.

You say Pate, I say p*&&, but only after the watershed.

[Clive Arthur]

Post by John Ashby

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I think Tesco are introducing their new pretend name across the board
for all their products; I've certainly noticed it on both coffee and
things very different from coffee. Oh, "Hearty Food Co" for frozen
ready meals, but that's not the same name as the coffee etcetera.

T E Stockwell [1] which was the name of the grocer Jack Cohen took over
to start the firm.

Grocer Jack, grocer Jack, is it true what mummy said, you won't come
back, oh no, no...

Cheers

[Mike]

Post by Clive Arthur

Post by John Ashby

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I think Tesco are introducing their new pretend name across the board
for all their products; I've certainly noticed it on both coffee and
things very different from coffee. Oh, "Hearty Food Co" for frozen
ready meals, but that's not the same name as the coffee etcetera.

T E Stockwell [1] which was the name of the grocer Jack Cohen took over
to start the firm.

Grocer Jack, grocer Jack, is it true what mummy said, you won't come
back, oh no, no...
Cheers

Very short opera, that one.

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Sainsburys I've only noticed in the frozen ready meals using this
"Stamford St" name (along with a _reduction_ in price to 90p, without
AFAICS any reduction in quality or quantity); their
butter/teacakes/ricecakes, for example, is still just "by Sainsburys".
Though I think it may be something farm for fresh meat.

It appears that Sainsbury's have rebranded their "value" range,
and made them look more attractive, so meat is "Butcher's Choice"
and veg is "Greengrocer".

It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions
were packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the
package look good.

Chris

[Jim Easterbrook]

It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions were
packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the package
look good.

I vaguely remember when one of the chains introduced "yellow label" or
similar cheap versions they claimed to have done research that showed
people would choose the plain looking ones without even checking the
price, just assuming they were cheap because they looked boring.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions were
packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the package
look good.

I vaguely remember when one of the chains introduced "yellow label" or
similar cheap versions they claimed to have done research that showed
people would choose the plain looking ones without even checking the
price, just assuming they were cheap because they looked boring.

(You beat me to it: basically, the economy-minded among us _look_ for
the plain[er] packaging, and they target us just as much as they target
all other groups.) Conversely, I've noticed that the variants (e. g.
BGTY) trying to claim superiority, tend to use more black - both in the
printed part, and (in the case of fresh meat for example) the colour of
the trays.

[Mike]

Post by Jim Easterbrook

It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions were
packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the package
look good.

I vaguely remember when one of the chains introduced "yellow label" or
similar cheap versions they claimed to have done research that showed
people would choose the plain looking ones without even checking the
price, just assuming they were cheap because they looked boring.

Plain saling?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Mike

Post by Jim Easterbrook

It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions were
packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the package
look good.

I vaguely remember when one of the chains introduced "yellow label" or
similar cheap versions they claimed to have done research that showed
people would choose the plain looking ones without even checking the
price, just assuming they were cheap because they looked boring.

Plain saling?

One of the masters at the school we attended, my brother told me many
years later, made note of (cryptic) crossword clues that he found
particularly pleasing. It seems sad to me that such pieces of wit as the
above - mostly from Mike! - are probably not being collected.

[Mike]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Mike

Post by Jim Easterbrook

It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions were
packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the package
look good.

I vaguely remember when one of the chains introduced "yellow label" or
similar cheap versions they claimed to have done research that showed
people would choose the plain looking ones without even checking the
price, just assuming they were cheap because they looked boring.

Plain saling?

One of the masters at the school we attended, my brother told me many
years later, made note of (cryptic) crossword clues that he found
particularly pleasing. It seems sad to me that such pieces of wit as the
above - mostly from Mike! - are probably not being collected.

Mine could be archived on a SATA drive, (Spectacular, Absolute Tosh
Archive)

[Joe Kerr]

Post by Chris J Dixon
It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions
were packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the
package look good.
Chris

They are! It is so that people who don't absolutely /have/ to buy the
cheapest will buy the next range up (with the higher profit margin) so
as not to look mean or hard up.

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by Chris J Dixon
It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions
were packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the
package look good.

They are! It is so that people who don't absolutely /have/ to buy the
cheapest will buy the next range up (with the higher profit margin) so
as not to look mean or hard up.

So, why have Sainsbury's, as I said above, now started to move
away from "Basics" branding?

Chris

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by Chris J Dixon
It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions
were packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the
package look good.

They are! It is so that people who don't absolutely /have/ to buy the
cheapest will buy the next range up (with the higher profit margin) so
as not to look mean or hard up.

So, why have Sainsbury's, as I said above, now started to move
away from "Basics" branding?
Chris

At a guess, they see themselves as no longer catering for that market -
with the rise of Lidl and Aldi, it's probably shrunk a lot, and they are
maybe letting T E S Co have it (though I think they are using less of
their equivalent too)? So they are getting rid of their "Basics"
branding so as not to be seen as "where the poor people shop" by their
target market who might find that off-putting? As I say, just a guess:
I'm sure there's a _lot_ of psychology, market research, and so on in
this matter. I think they're keeping their "Be Good To Yourself" and
"Taste The Difference" ones as "By Sainsburys", but maybe what was the
bottom level is now being hidden behind fake names (such as "xxx farm"
for fresh meat).

[Joe Kerr]

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by Chris J Dixon
It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions
were packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the
package look good.

They are! It is so that people who don't absolutely /have/ to buy the
cheapest will buy the next range up (with the higher profit margin) so
as not to look mean or hard up.

So, why have Sainsbury's, as I said above, now started to move
away from "Basics" branding?
Chris

I have no idea how Sainsbury's thinks - I wish I did, it would help my
shopping. It is possible that jpeg has the answer in falling sales
caused by greater low-end competition and an attempt to rebrand with
phoney wholesome, rural, traceable labelling.

[Sally Thompson]

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by Chris J Dixon
It always seemed to me a little strange that the cheap versions
were packaged almost as if they were intended to be unattractive,
when there must be very little, if any, extra cost in making the
package look good.

They are! It is so that people who don't absolutely /have/ to buy the
cheapest will buy the next range up (with the higher profit margin) so
as not to look mean or hard up.

So, why have Sainsbury's, as I said above, now started to move
away from "Basics" branding?
Chris

I have no idea how Sainsbury's thinks - I wish I did, it would help my
shopping. It is possible that jpeg has the answer in falling sales
caused by greater low-end competition and an attempt to rebrand with
phoney wholesome, rural, traceable labelling.

Don't get me started on wholesome rural labelling. Oh, all right then. The
"local" milk in an organic shop in Ludlow which turned out to be from
Gloucester (50 miles away) and the "locally sourced" sausages in the pub
which, on enquiry, turned out to be from the wholesaler (who was indeed
local, but...).

[Penny]

On 27 Jun 2019 08:35:02 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
Don't get me started on wholesome rural labelling. Oh, all right then. The
"local" milk in an organic shop in Ludlow which turned out to be from
Gloucester (50 miles away) and the "locally sourced" sausages in the pub
which, on enquiry, turned out to be from the wholesaler (who was indeed
local, but...).

It always surprises me that Lidl seem to carry produce which is far more
'local' than either eTsco or Morrisons. Much of it being labelled as from
farms in Herefordshire or Worcestershire rather than Peru or Egypt.
However, I am very aware that supermarket central distribution means that
any crop grown within 10 miles of the actual store will have travelled from
that field to somewhere many many miles away before being brought back
again. I can buy truly locally grown veg in the market hall where the
community garden has a stall but there aren't enough smallholders and
market gardeners in this area - one of the few things I miss from Kent.

Local butchers, on the other hand, can often tell you which farm their meat
came from, having bought it 'on the hoof' at the auction.

[Vicky Ayech]

On 27 Jun 2019 08:35:02 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
Don't get me started on wholesome rural labelling. Oh, all right then. The
"local" milk in an organic shop in Ludlow which turned out to be from
Gloucester (50 miles away) and the "locally sourced" sausages in the pub
which, on enquiry, turned out to be from the wholesaler (who was indeed
local, but...).

When we watch 4 in a bed and the critical visitors say breakfast
should be with local produce you wonder whether the local Tescos
counts. And sausages with a higher meat content are not as tasty as
those with more fat.

[Penny]

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:32:52 +0100, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
sausages with a higher meat content are not as tasty as
those with more fat.

I've given up on sausages, wasted a lot of money failing to find any I
like.
No salt, too much pepper and not enough fat :(

[BrritSki]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
sausages with a higher meat content are not as tasty as
those with more fat.

I've given up on sausages, wasted a lot of money failing to find any I
like.
No salt, too much pepper and not enough fat :(

You should try the Bedford Bangers. No, not a BrritSki invention/moment
surprisingly, they're made by the good butcher in town and are
excellent, as are their spicy Italian that really are hot.

Ceriana sausages are fantastic though, just meat [1] - not too lean -
salt and pepper, made on the premises while you wait. I was staggered
when some non-local Italians enquired about them in the shop and were
given raw sausage to sample which they all did. Never risked it myself,
but lots of locals swore by it.

[1] No rusk or other filler which is what I think is wrong with most
British sausages. We had cumberland and lincolnshire from the Waitrose
counter recently that were utterly tasteless, whereas the v. expensive
rib of beef we had 10 days ago was amazingly good - helped by expert
cooking of BrratSki.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
sausages with a higher meat content are not as tasty as
those with more fat.

I've given up on sausages, wasted a lot of money failing to find any I
like.
No salt, too much pepper and not enough fat :(

Make your own!

I'm currently advising a Buenos Aires business how to make English
sausages[1][2] and I'm looking forward to trying them out in a couple of
weeks. They tell me they are thrilled with the results they are getting.

Start where you are.

If you haven't got a mincer, get your butcher to mince the pork shoulder
- and get him to chuck in some pork belly if the shoulder looks too lean.

If you don't own a sausage stuffer, consider making your first ones as
square sausages or sausage patties like those served up in a McDonalds
breakfast (I'm told)

There's no need to add any filler for high meat content sausages but if
you prefer a more traditional texture, shredded fresh white bread is
great for fresh sausages

And I'd recommend using a classic recipe for the spices before
experimenting with variations.

Everyone over to your place for breakfast on Saturday?

Nick
[1]Which is quite amusing as I'm hardly the most professional at it
myself and have a very amateur sausage-stuffer but it appears that I'm
the first person they've come across who has actually done it before.
[2]I've been completely up front with them and told them my recipes come
from ISBN 978-1-84533-923-4

[Dumrat]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
sausages with a higher meat content are not as tasty as
those with more fat.

I've given up on sausages, wasted a lot of money failing to find any I
like.
No salt, too much pepper and not enough fat :(

Make your own!
I'm currently advising a Buenos Aires business how to make English sausages[1][2] and I'm
looking forward to trying them out in a couple of weeks. They tell me they are thrilled
with the results they are getting.

[1]Which is quite amusing as I'm hardly the most professional at it myself and have a very

Post by Nick Odell
amateur sausage-stuffer but it appears that I'm the first person they've come across who
has actually done it before.
[2]I've been completely up front with them and told them my recipes come from ISBN
978-1-84533-923-4

This is just one of the best quirky umratic things I've read in a long time. Where I live
now, we have a saying; "Only in Dubai" - "Only on Umra", in this case, I think!

[Nick Odell]

Post by Dumrat

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
sausages with a higher meat content are not as tasty as
those with more fat.

I've given up on sausages, wasted a lot of money failing to find any I
like.
No salt, too much pepper and not enough fat :(

Make your own!
I'm currently advising a Buenos Aires business how to make English
sausages[1][2] and I'm looking forward to trying them out in a couple
of weeks. They tell me they are thrilled with the results they are
getting.

[1]Which is quite amusing as I'm hardly the most professional at it myself and have a very

Post by Nick Odell
amateur sausage-stuffer but it appears that I'm the first person
they've come across who has actually done it before.
[2]I've been completely up front with them and told them my recipes
come from ISBN 978-1-84533-923-4

This is just one of the best quirky umratic things I've read in a long
time. Where I live now, we have a saying; "Only in Dubai" - "Only on
Umra", in this case, I think!

I suspect it's a world-wide meme: "Only in Argentina" is a pretty
frequent cry.

This morning I found a flyer in my inbox from that business in BsAS.
They are launching their new breakfast products next week - including
the Cumberland sausage - so I'm looking forward to trying them out after
I arrive a week later.

Nick

[BrritSki]

Post by Nick Odell
ISBN 978-1-84533-923-4

Made me look, made me stare, but I kept on my underwear.

I think I bought that book for Drother as a Christmas present. He and a
couple of friends keep pigs and have an annual sausage making fest. He
keeps his sausages very simple with just seasoning and no filler and
they are wonderful. The friends put in leeks, and other fruit and veg
and are all a bit ott in our opinion as they overwhelm the essential
sausaginess [1] of the pure product.

[1] if that's not a word it should be

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Penny
I've given up on sausages, wasted a lot of money failing to find any I
like.
No salt, too much pepper and not enough fat:(

I bought some smoked sausages the other day that were made by the chaps
currently residing at HMP Haverigg. They were SCRUMMY!

[Paul Herber]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Penny
I've given up on sausages, wasted a lot of money failing to find any I
like.
No salt, too much pepper and not enough fat:(

I bought some smoked sausages the other day that were made by the chaps
currently residing at HMP Haverigg. They were SCRUMMY!

I hope these sausages aren't an attempt to get someone out without being noticed?
Prisoner 153128, where is your left leg?

[Mike]

Post by Paul Herber

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Penny
I've given up on sausages, wasted a lot of money failing to find any I
like.
No salt, too much pepper and not enough fat:(

I bought some smoked sausages the other day that were made by the chaps
currently residing at HMP Haverigg. They were SCRUMMY!

I hope these sausages aren't an attempt to get someone out without being noticed?
Prisoner 153128, where is your left leg?

Probably, even using spices, *BTN* with added sauce!

[Sid Nuncius]

Post by Mike

Post by Paul Herber

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Penny
I've given up on sausages, wasted a lot of money failing to find any I
like.
No salt, too much pepper and not enough fat:(

I bought some smoked sausages the other day that were made by the chaps
currently residing at HMP Haverigg. They were SCRUMMY!

I hope these sausages aren't an attempt to get someone out without being noticed?
Prisoner 153128, where is your left leg?

Probably, even using spices, *BTN* with added sauce!

Yes.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Penny
On 27 Jun 2019 08:35:02 GMT, Sally Thompson

Post by Sally Thompson
Don't get me started on wholesome rural labelling. Oh, all right then. The
"local" milk in an organic shop in Ludlow which turned out to be from
Gloucester (50 miles away) and the "locally sourced" sausages in the pub
which, on enquiry, turned out to be from the wholesaler (who was indeed
local, but...).

When we watch 4 in a bed and the critical visitors say breakfast
should be with local produce you wonder whether the local Tescos
counts. And sausages with a higher meat content are not as tasty as
those with more fat.

That depends.

"Meat" should include muscle and fat (and it is permissible to include a
whole lot else under the description of "meat." Fat is integral to the
taste of sausages so I would say low-fat sausages don't have the same
potential to be tasty.

Nick

[Flop]

Post by Joe Kerr
I have no idea how Sainsbury's thinks - I wish I did, it would help my
shopping. It is possible that jpeg has the answer in falling sales
caused by greater low-end competition and an attempt to rebrand with
phoney wholesome, rural, traceable labelling.

'Traceable labelling'. I would love to know who produced these labels.
From Sainsbury's milk:

".... farmers who we have worked in partnership with...."

"They supply us with approximately 97% of our by [sic] Sainsbury's fresh
milk."

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Flop

Post by Joe Kerr
I have no idea how Sainsbury's thinks - I wish I did, it would help
my shopping. It is possible that jpeg has the answer in falling sales
caused by greater low-end competition and an attempt to rebrand with
phoney wholesome, rural, traceable labelling.

'Traceable labelling'. I would love to know who produced these labels.
".... farmers who we have worked in partnership with...."

Once, ten years ago, for a couple of days? (Just being cynical; the
following implies it's more genuine.)

Post by Flop
"They supply us with approximately 97% of our by [sic] Sainsbury's
fresh milk."

I think "by Sainsbury's" is either in quotes, or italics, or a different
font to the rest of the sentence, making it clear that it's a sort of
brand name, not that Sainsburys produced it. Or am I missing what it is
you're objecting to?

[Flop]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Joe Kerr
I have no idea how Sainsbury's thinks - I wish I did, it would help
my  shopping. It is possible that jpeg has the answer in falling
sales caused by greater low-end competition and an attempt to rebrand
with phoney wholesome, rural, traceable labelling.

'Traceable  labelling'. I would love to know who produced these labels.
".... farmers who we have worked in partnership with...."

Once, ten years ago, for a couple of days? (Just being cynical; the
following implies it's more genuine.)

"They supply us with approximately 97% of our by [sic] Sainsbury's
fresh milk."

I think "by Sainsbury's" is either in quotes, or italics, or a different
font to the rest of the sentence, making it clear that it's a sort of
brand name, not that Sainsburys produced it. Or am I missing what it is
you're objecting to?

You are wrong.

The text has no change in formatting or punctuation.

It reads exactly as I have quoted. But without the '[sic]' of course.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by Flop

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

'Traceable  labelling'. I would love to know who produced these labels.
".... farmers who we have worked in partnership with...."

Once, ten years ago, for a couple of days? (Just being cynical; the
following implies it's more genuine.)

"They supply us with approximately 97% of our by [sic] Sainsbury's
fresh milk."

I think "by Sainsbury's" is either in quotes, or italics, or a
different font to the rest of the sentence, making it clear that it's
a sort of brand name, not that Sainsburys produced it. Or am I
missing what it is you're objecting to?

You are wrong.
The text has no change in formatting or punctuation.
It reads exactly as I have quoted. But without the '[sic]' of course.

OK, I was wrong! But I think anyone who shops there would be aware that
they are currently using the phrase "by Sainsburys" to denote (some of)
their own-brand produce.

Was it the apparent grammatical oddity of "our by" that struck you?

[Flop]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Flop

'Traceable  labelling'. I would love to know who produced these labels.
".... farmers who we have worked in partnership with...."

 Once, ten years ago, for a couple of days? (Just being cynical; the
following implies it's more genuine.)

"They supply us with approximately 97% of our by [sic] Sainsbury's
fresh milk."

I think "by Sainsbury's" is either in quotes, or italics, or a
different  font to the rest of the sentence, making it clear that
it's a sort of  brand name, not that Sainsburys produced it. Or am I
missing what it is  you're objecting to?

You are wrong.
The text has no change in formatting or punctuation.
It reads exactly as I have quoted.  But without the '[sic]' of course.

OK, I was wrong! But I think anyone who shops there would be aware that
they are currently using the phrase "by Sainsburys" to denote (some of)
their own-brand produce.
Was it the apparent grammatical oddity of "our by" that struck you?

Yes. I speed read it and tripped over. Trying to untangle the grammar, I
forgot about the "By Sainsbury's" motto.

I was still upset about ".... farmers with whom we have worked in
partnership ...." and probably took the rest too literally.

[Penny]

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:13:50 +0100, Flop <***@flop.knot.me.uk> scrawled in
the dust...

Post by Flop

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Flop

'Traceable  labelling'. I would love to know who produced these labels.
".... farmers who we have worked in partnership with...."

 Once, ten years ago, for a couple of days? (Just being cynical; the
following implies it's more genuine.)

"They supply us with approximately 97% of our by [sic] Sainsbury's
fresh milk."

I think "by Sainsbury's" is either in quotes, or italics, or a
different  font to the rest of the sentence, making it clear that
it's a sort of  brand name, not that Sainsburys produced it. Or am I
missing what it is  you're objecting to?

You are wrong.
The text has no change in formatting or punctuation.
It reads exactly as I have quoted.  But without the '[sic]' of course.

OK, I was wrong! But I think anyone who shops there would be aware that
they are currently using the phrase "by Sainsburys" to denote (some of)
their own-brand produce.
Was it the apparent grammatical oddity of "our by" that struck you?

Yes. I speed read it and tripped over.

I'm glad it's not just me who feels like that. It happens to me in
conversations too, my brain stops listening while it tries to figure out
what has been said.

Post by Flop
Trying to untangle the grammar, I
forgot about the "By Sainsbury's" motto.
I was still upset about ".... farmers with whom we have worked in
partnership ...." and probably took the rest too literally.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Penny
the dust...

Post by Flop

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Flop

'Traceable  labelling'. I would love to know who produced these labels.
".... farmers who we have worked in partnership with...."

 Once, ten years ago, for a couple of days? (Just being cynical; the
following implies it's more genuine.)

"They supply us with approximately 97% of our by [sic] Sainsbury's
fresh milk."

I think "by Sainsbury's" is either in quotes, or italics, or a
different  font to the rest of the sentence, making it clear that
it's a sort of  brand name, not that Sainsburys produced it. Or am I
missing what it is  you're objecting to?

You are wrong.
The text has no change in formatting or punctuation.
It reads exactly as I have quoted.  But without the '[sic]' of course.

OK, I was wrong! But I think anyone who shops there would be aware that
they are currently using the phrase "by Sainsburys" to denote (some of)
their own-brand produce.
Was it the apparent grammatical oddity of "our by" that struck you?

Yes. I speed read it and tripped over.

I'm glad it's not just me who feels like that. It happens to me in
conversations too, my brain stops listening while it tries to figure out
what has been said.

Yes, having good grammar is often a positive disadvantage in that way: I
hear someone come out with something appalling on TV or radio, and my
mind immediately goes into a "how would I explain to them why that's
wrong" scenario, meaning I completely miss the rest of what they say.
Which is sometimes more important than good grammar, or at least it's
more important that I hear what the idiot is saying.

Post by Penny

Post by Flop
Trying to untangle the grammar, I
forgot about the "By Sainsbury's" motto.
I was still upset about ".... farmers with whom we have worked in
partnership ...." and probably took the rest too literally.

Ah, yes, I hadn't spotted the tautology in that.

[Penny]

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:53:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Penny
I'm glad it's not just me who feels like that. It happens to me in
conversations too, my brain stops listening while it tries to figure out
what has been said.

Yes, having good grammar is often a positive disadvantage in that way: I
hear someone come out with something appalling on TV or radio, and my
mind immediately goes into a "how would I explain to them why that's
wrong" scenario, meaning I completely miss the rest of what they say.
Which is sometimes more important than good grammar, or at least it's
more important that I hear what the idiot is saying.

It's not always about grammar as such, use of the wrong word does it for
me too. I blame my mother for the 'correcting grammar' bits (and eventually
trained myself not to do it out loud in conversation) and years of text
editing for the other.

[Vicky Ayech]

Post by Penny
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:53:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Penny
I'm glad it's not just me who feels like that. It happens to me in
conversations too, my brain stops listening while it tries to figure out
what has been said.

Yes, having good grammar is often a positive disadvantage in that way: I
hear someone come out with something appalling on TV or radio, and my
mind immediately goes into a "how would I explain to them why that's
wrong" scenario, meaning I completely miss the rest of what they say.
Which is sometimes more important than good grammar, or at least it's
more important that I hear what the idiot is saying.

It's not always about grammar as such, use of the wrong word does it for
me too. I blame my mother for the 'correcting grammar' bits (and eventually
trained myself not to do it out loud in conversation) and years of text
editing for the other.

I lose the conversation trend anyway sometimes :). And I don't start
listening at once if I am on the computer and B talks to me. I take a
while to switch concentration.

[Flop]

Post by Vicky Ayech

Post by Penny
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:53:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Penny
I'm glad it's not just me who feels like that. It happens to me in
conversations too, my brain stops listening while it tries to figure out
what has been said.

Yes, having good grammar is often a positive disadvantage in that way: I
hear someone come out with something appalling on TV or radio, and my
mind immediately goes into a "how would I explain to them why that's
wrong" scenario, meaning I completely miss the rest of what they say.
Which is sometimes more important than good grammar, or at least it's
more important that I hear what the idiot is saying.

It's not always about grammar as such, use of the wrong word does it for
me too. I blame my mother for the 'correcting grammar' bits (and eventually
trained myself not to do it out loud in conversation) and years of text
editing for the other.

I lose the conversation trend anyway sometimes :). And I don't start
listening at once if I am on the computer and B talks to me. I take a
while to switch concentration.

Nesting is my problem.

Wife will start a monologue [Subject A].

Halfway through the sentence she will start a subset [Subject B].

Before coming to end of that there is another side issue to be covered
[Subject C].

... And so on.

At one point she may start back towards [Subject A] but rarely gets
there having bypassed completion of half the other Subjects.

Storing all these half stories in memory (and being unable to recombine
them) results in me not listening and being blamed for my hopeless memory.

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Flop

Post by Vicky Ayech

Post by Penny
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:53:10 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Penny
I'm glad it's not just me who feels like that. It happens to me in
conversations too, my brain stops listening while it tries to figure out
what has been said.

Yes, having good grammar is often a positive disadvantage in that way: I
hear someone come out with something appalling on TV or radio, and my
mind immediately goes into a "how would I explain to them why that's
wrong" scenario, meaning I completely miss the rest of what they say.
Which is sometimes more important than good grammar, or at least it's
more important that I hear what the idiot is saying.

It's not always about grammar as such, use of the wrong word does it for
me too. I blame my mother for the 'correcting grammar' bits (and eventually
trained myself not to do it out loud in conversation) and years of text
editing for the other.

I lose the conversation trend anyway sometimes :). And I don't start
listening at once if I am on the computer and B talks to me. I take a
while to switch concentration.

Nesting is my problem.
Wife will start a monologue [Subject A].
Halfway through the sentence she will start a subset [Subject B].
Before coming to end of that there is another side issue to be covered
[Subject C].
... And so on.
At one point she may start back towards [Subject A] but rarely gets
there having bypassed completion of half the other Subjects.
Storing all these half stories in memory (and being unable to recombine
them) results in me not listening and being blamed for my hopeless memory.

Your wife is me. However, I recently decided it was time to have a hearing
test after 40 years plus: I’ve a fair degree of ageing hearing loss and
need two hearing aids. If I have to concentrate on what others say, I
might be less keen on rambling complicated conversations in future!

Sincerely Chris

[Penny]

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:50:12 +0100, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
I lose the conversation trend anyway sometimes :). And I don't start
listening at once if I am on the computer and B talks to me. I take a
while to switch concentration.

This was part of the problem I had with Ray - and yes, I should have waited
for acknowledgement before continuing.

The other part of the problem was his deafness which lead to some hilarious
conversations when he came back with a comment I could not relate to what I
had just said or, when I could, just laughed so much it was a while before
I could collect myself and explain what I had _actually_ said.

[Sally Thompson]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
I lose the conversation trend anyway sometimes :). And I don't start
listening at once if I am on the computer and B talks to me. I take a
while to switch concentration.

This was part of the problem I had with Ray - and yes, I should have waited
for acknowledgement before continuing.
The other part of the problem was his deafness which lead to some hilarious
conversations when he came back with a comment I could not relate to what I
had just said or, when I could, just laughed so much it was a while before
I could collect myself and explain what I had _actually_ said.

My sister is deaf and won't admit it, which means that when we talk on the
phone she laughs at inappropriate moments. I wish she would just say!

[LFS]

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
I lose the conversation trend anyway sometimes :). And I don't start
listening at once if I am on the computer and B talks to me. I take a
while to switch concentration.

This was part of the problem I had with Ray - and yes, I should have waited
for acknowledgement before continuing.
The other part of the problem was his deafness which lead to some hilarious
conversations when he came back with a comment I could not relate to what I
had just said or, when I could, just laughed so much it was a while before
I could collect myself and explain what I had _actually_ said.

My sister is deaf and won't admit it, which means that when we talk on the
phone she laughs at inappropriate moments. I wish she would just say!

When my hearing suddenly deteriorated a few years ago I realised how
unsympathetic I has always been to my dad, my mother-in-law and my
husband about their deafness and I felt quite ashamed.

It's a horrible handicap and it's not easy to face up to it, let alone
to tell people and ask them to repeat what they've said or speak more
clearly.

But if the hearing loss is slow, people develop strategies for
disguising it. Their nearest and dearest may be well aware that these
don't work but it can be very tricky to get the point across.

[Kate B]

Post by LFS

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
I lose the conversation trend anyway sometimes :). And I don't start
listening at once if I am on the computer and B talks to me. I take a
while to switch concentration.

This was part of the problem I had with Ray - and yes, I should have waited
for acknowledgement before continuing.
The other part of the problem was his deafness which lead to some hilarious
conversations when he came back with a comment I could not relate to what I
had just said or, when I could,  just laughed so much it was a while
before
I could collect myself and explain what I had _actually_ said.

My sister is deaf and won't admit it, which means that when we talk on the
phone she laughs at inappropriate moments. I wish she would just say!

When my hearing suddenly deteriorated a few years ago I realised how
unsympathetic I has always been to my dad, my mother-in-law and my
husband about their deafness and I felt quite ashamed.
It's a horrible handicap and it's not easy to face up to it, let alone
to tell people and ask them to repeat what they've said or speak more
clearly.
But if the hearing loss is slow, people develop strategies for
disguising it. Their nearest and dearest may be well aware that these
don't work but it can be very tricky to get the point across.

My husband is extremely deaf. It's an hereditary thing - his father was
deaf and his daughter now has hearing loss in her late fifties. His
hearing aids are the one thing he is happy to spend money on and they
are excellent, but only when he can concentrate and watch someone
speaking. Casual chat is difficult, but if he focusses, he's as sharp as
he ever was, and a conversation with one or two people is as
entertaining and illuminating as ever. But too often people - especially
new and transient people, plumbers, shop assistants, people on the other
end of a phone whom he doesn't know - simply think he's stupid, slow,
past it. Hearing aids are so small now you can't tell when someone is
wearing them. Sometimes I persuade him to tell them that he's deaf but
it doesn't often make a difference and he hates admitting to weakness.
It takes a long time, sometimes, to restore him after encounters like that.

[Mike]

Post by Kate B

Post by LFS

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Vicky Ayech
I lose the conversation trend anyway sometimes :). And I don't start
listening at once if I am on the computer and B talks to me. I take a
while to switch concentration.

This was part of the problem I had with Ray - and yes, I should have waited
for acknowledgement before continuing.
The other part of the problem was his deafness which lead to some hilarious
conversations when he came back with a comment I could not relate to what I
had just said or, when I could,  just laughed so much it was a while
before
I could collect myself and explain what I had _actually_ said.

My sister is deaf and won't admit it, which means that when we talk on the
phone she laughs at inappropriate moments. I wish she would just say!

When my hearing suddenly deteriorated a few years ago I realised how
unsympathetic I has always been to my dad, my mother-in-law and my
husband about their deafness and I felt quite ashamed.
It's a horrible handicap and it's not easy to face up to it, let alone
to tell people and ask them to repeat what they've said or speak more
clearly.
But if the hearing loss is slow, people develop strategies for
disguising it. Their nearest and dearest may be well aware that these
don't work but it can be very tricky to get the point across.

My husband is extremely deaf. It's an hereditary thing - his father was
deaf and his daughter now has hearing loss in her late fifties. His
hearing aids are the one thing he is happy to spend money on and they
are excellent, but only when he can concentrate and watch someone
speaking. Casual chat is difficult, but if he focusses, he's as sharp as
he ever was, and a conversation with one or two people is as
entertaining and illuminating as ever. But too often people - especially
new and transient people, plumbers, shop assistants, people on the other
end of a phone whom he doesn't know - simply think he's stupid, slow,
past it. Hearing aids are so small now you can't tell when someone is
wearing them. Sometimes I persuade him to tell them that he's deaf but
it doesn't often make a difference and he hates admitting to weakness.
It takes a long time, sometimes, to restore him after encounters like that.

There’s another factor that can rear its’ ugly head on occasions;
explaining that you have a visual, aural or physical handicap to some
(possibly well-meaning) people will result in slow, loud ‘simple speech’
style which can feel very condescending and patronising. Anyone who
remembers the programme and expression ‘Does he take sugar?’ will know what
I mean.

[Joe Kerr]

Post by Mike
There’s another factor that can rear its’ ugly head on occasions;
explaining that you have a visual, aural or physical handicap to some
(possibly well-meaning) people will result in slow, loud ‘simple speech’
style which can feel very condescending and patronising. Anyone who
remembers the programme and expression ‘Does he take sugar?’ will know what
I mean.

It can also, somewhat surprisingly, work in reverse too. I have had
instances where I have been talking to a person with disabilities and
had the carer come over and interrupt to tell me whether or not the
person did "take sugar".

The carer was probably stereotyping and making assumptions that because
I am normal[1] I wouldn't be able to handle talking to somebody with
problems.

[1] Insert your own definition.

[Mike]

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by Mike
There’s another factor that can rear its’ ugly head on occasions;
explaining that you have a visual, aural or physical handicap to some
(possibly well-meaning) people will result in slow, loud ‘simple speech’
style which can feel very condescending and patronising. Anyone who
remembers the programme and expression ‘Does he take sugar?’ will know what
I mean.

It can also, somewhat surprisingly, work in reverse too. I have had
instances where I have been talking to a person with disabilities and
had the carer come over and interrupt to tell me whether or not the
person did "take sugar".
The carer was probably stereotyping and making assumptions that because
I am normal[1] I wouldn't be able to handle talking to somebody with
problems.
[1] Insert your own definition.

Yup, that too!

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <DiLRE.280136$***@fx39.am4>, Mike
<***@ntlworld.com> writes:
[]

Post by Mike
There’s another factor that can rear its’ ugly head on occasions;
explaining that you have a visual, aural or physical handicap to some
(possibly well-meaning) people will result in slow, loud ‘simple speech’
style which can feel very condescending and patronising. Anyone who
remembers the programme and expression ‘Does he take sugar?’ will know what
I mean.

I occasionally find this with my blind friends; people sometimes assume
they are simple, which they most definitely are not. (Doesn't help that
Julia also _is_ hard of hearing - she has aids, but sometimes things do
need repeating - and has a slight lisp.)

And don't get me started on the institutions that think "disabled" means
"wheelchair" or similar. This has two opposite effects: some places
think they are very accessible, but only to wheelchairs, not to the
blind; and some places think my friends need lifts etc., whereas (for
example) they'd clamber around a submarine or sailing ship as much as I
would. [I was considering Chatham dockyard.] Julia in fact loves the
sort of fairground ride that I'm not too happy with! (I go with her
anyway, as Frank has a bad back.)

[Steve Hague]

I know it's politically incorrect to like sliced white bread, but Aldi
do a loaf using the Village Bakery label which is really good, much
better than the budget white loaves the other supermarkets sell. My
favourite bread though is original wheatgerm Hovis, which is often in
short supply hereabouts.
Steve

[Vicky Ayech]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:36:06 +0100, Steve Hague

Post by Steve Hague
I know it's politically incorrect to like sliced white bread, but Aldi
do a loaf using the Village Bakery label which is really good, much
better than the budget white loaves the other supermarkets sell. My
favourite bread though is original wheatgerm Hovis, which is often in
short supply hereabouts.
Steve

I like medium sliced Hovis. I know how many WW points in each slice so
can calculate intake. It has it on the bag. But it is usually now
£1.10 and Asda do a wholemeal loaf that has a different but very nice
taste for 55p so if I am there on the right day I get that.

I'm the only one eats it here so I had it go mouldy a few times. I had
been freezing part as sliced is fine when defrosted and that kept it
but if it is closed very well and goes into the fridge on the day it
says sell by it is ok for several more days.

[Penny]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:04:44 +0100, Vicky Ayech <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...

Bread

Post by Vicky Ayech
I'm the only one eats it here so I had it go mouldy a few times. I had
been freezing part as sliced is fine when defrosted and that kept it
but if it is closed very well and goes into the fridge on the day it
says sell by it is ok for several more days.

I keep all my sliced* bread in the freezer. I toast it straight from the
freezer and, if I know I'm going to want a sandwich** at lunchtime, I'll
take a couple of slices out to thaw at the same time. Or if I'm taking a
sandwich with me for lunch, will make it with the frozen bread. Bread
doesn't go mouldy here (but I do have a small chest freezer).

*on the rare occasions I buy an unsliced loaf it will be a 400g (half size)
one and it rarely lasts longer than two days as I find it hard to resist.

**as I'm currently on a 'resistance' (not a diet, you understand) I've only
been eating one slice (or a small roll) at lunchtime lately, usually with a
cup of soup.

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Bread

Post by Vicky Ayech
I'm the only one eats it here so I had it go mouldy a few times. I had
been freezing part as sliced is fine when defrosted and that kept it but
if it is closed very well and goes into the fridge on the day it says
sell by it is ok for several more days.

I keep all my sliced* bread in the freezer. I toast it straight from the
freezer and, if I know I'm going to want a sandwich** at lunchtime, I'll
take a couple of slices out to thaw at the same time. Or if I'm taking a
sandwich with me for lunch, will make it with the frozen bread. Bread
doesn't go mouldy here (but I do have a small chest freezer).

My home made sour dough half wholemeal bread lasts for weeks in the
fridge. I normally get through one loaf a week, but a year or two ago I
left half a loaf in the fridge when I went on holiday. It was still fine
when I got back two weeks later.

[LFS]

Post by Penny
**as I'm currently on a 'resistance' (not a diet, you understand) I've only
been eating one slice (or a small roll) at lunchtime lately, usually with a
cup of soup.

Oh, I like that - I'm on a resistance too. It sounds so much more
positive and worthwhile than a diet.

[Penny]

On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:18:44 +0100, LFS <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS

Post by Penny
**as I'm currently on a 'resistance' (not a diet, you understand) I've only
been eating one slice (or a small roll) at lunchtime lately, usually with a
cup of soup.

Oh, I like that - I'm on a resistance too. It sounds so much more
positive and worthwhile than a diet.

Mostly it's really easy - living alone probably helps - but we have tea and
biscuits after singing and now and then someone brings shortbread, I can't
resist those, even shop-bought.

[Vicky Ayech]

Post by LFS

Post by Penny
**as I'm currently on a 'resistance' (not a diet, you understand) I've only
been eating one slice (or a small roll) at lunchtime lately, usually with a
cup of soup.

Oh, I like that - I'm on a resistance too. It sounds so much more
positive and worthwhile than a diet.

On my resistance I have one slice if I have soup (home-made veg) or
two slices with a Leerdammer light slice and cucumber.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by LFS

Post by Penny
**as I'm currently on a 'resistance' (not a diet, you understand) I've only
been eating one slice (or a small roll) at lunchtime lately, usually with a
cup of soup.

Oh, I like that - I'm on a resistance too. It sounds so much more
positive and worthwhile than a diet.

Not to mention that diet originally meant what you ate/eat, not
necessarily a reducing diet: you can even have a weight-gain diet.

Let alone the Diet of Worms ...

[carolet]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Penny
On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:51:00 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I don't know about Waitrose, but Tescbury are for a lot of things
"inventing" a brand, rather than using their own name, so it might be
worth looking twice. (Lidl have always done this: named brands are the
exception there, but the other stuff is under obscure names. If you pick
them up and look at them, "made exclusively for Lidl" or similar will be
in the small print; I don't think they do anything branded "Lidl". [I'm
guessing Aldi might be similar.]) Sainsbury's brand (or one of them -
frozen ready meals anyway) is "Stamford St. Food Company"; I don't have
anything Tesco at the moment, but they use the same name for quite a lot
of products, I just can't remember it. One of Lidl's is "Crownfield".

Rowan Hill bakery is one of Lidl's. I used to like their sliced wholemeal
but then it suddenly became pappy and too sweet. Staff informed me the old
version was made by Kingsmill but they'd switched to Hovis. I couldn't find
any Kingsmill wholemeal elsewhere but then the bread turned up again
labelled as Tesco and only slightly more expensive.

Lidl tend to use lots of names depending on product type - Rowan Hill
for bread, Crownfield for cereals, Snaktastic for crisps, Freeway for
orangeade and similar fizzies, Natura for fruit juice, Freshona for
jarred (?) vegetable (I like their beetroot), Sol Mar for anything
nominally Spanish, Dulano and Warren & Sons for processed meat,
Birchwood for fresh meat, Mister Choc for chocolate, Oakwood for
strawberries, Simply for the few things actually packaged to look
budget, Cien for cosmetics, Livarno/Auriol/Silver Crest (among others?)
for electricals, Ultimate Speed for automotive, Formil for detergent,
Alesto for dried fruit, Belbake for sugar etc., Newgate for tins and
packets, and probably many others. They're all Lidl really.
Morrisons use Market Street for fresh meat, but do put their own name too.
Sainsburys I've only noticed in the frozen ready meals using this
"Stamford St" name (along with a _reduction_ in price to 90p, without
AFAICS any reduction in quality or quantity); their
butter/teacakes/ricecakes, for example, is still just "by Sainsburys".
Though I think it may be something farm for fresh meat.
I think Tesco are introducing their new pretend name across the board
for all their products; I've certainly noticed it on both coffee and
things very different from coffee. Oh, "Hearty Food Co" for frozen ready
meals, but that's not the same name as the coffee etcetera.

I've been noticing "Redmere Farms" vegetables in Tesco recently. I have
assumed that that is one of Tesco's alter egos.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
ASDA seem to still be using their own name on their own-brand stuff.
Bread: I tend to alternate loaves between (white) Warburtons "Blackpool
Milk Roll" (I like the taste, and the unusual round slices!) and (brown)
WW "Malted Danish" (again, I like the taste); both are stocked by my
local Sains and Tesc, though both often seem to have run out, and I
_always_ seem to have to hunt for them.
jpeg
--
Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.
(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)

[Anne B]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Lidl tend to use lots of names depending on product type - Rowan Hill
for bread, Crownfield for cereals, Snaktastic for crisps, Freeway for
orangeade and similar fizzies, Natura for fruit juice, Freshona for
jarred (?) vegetable (I like their beetroot)

Now Lidl's beetroot is one product I really don't like, because as well
as the proper ingredients it has onions and I dislike the taste of
onions. Only bought it once. Never again.

Anne B

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Anne B

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Lidl tend to use lots of names depending on product type - Rowan Hill
for bread, Crownfield for cereals, Snaktastic for crisps, Freeway for
orangeade and similar fizzies, Natura for fruit juice, Freshona for
jarred (?) vegetable (I like their beetroot)

Now Lidl's beetroot is one product I really don't like, because as well
as the proper ingredients it has onions and I dislike the taste of
onions. Only bought it once. Never again.

You're right! Sixth out of seven ingredients, just before spice extract,
so there can't be much; I've never been aware of it, and certainly never
found any. Not that I don't believe you - one can be very sensitive to
the taste of some substances; I used to strongly dislike kidney, and
couldn't enjoy a Kate and Sidney pie even if someone had taken out the
pieces of kidney. At some point I reduced my dislike - I don't know how
or if anything triggered the change - and can now enjoy a s&k. (I still
quite strongly dislike liver though, at least whatever animal it
normally comes from [I can eat it in some pastes, or the same word in
French, but I think that's a different animal - assorted bird varieties,
perhaps].)

Post by Anne B
Anne B

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You're right! Sixth out of seven ingredients, just before spice extract,
so there can't be much; I've never been aware of it, and certainly never
found any. Not that I don't believe you - one can be very sensitive to
the taste of some substances; I used to strongly dislike kidney, and
couldn't enjoy a Kate and Sidney pie even if someone had taken out the
pieces of kidney. At some point I reduced my dislike - I don't know how
or if anything triggered the change - and can now enjoy a s&k. (I still
quite strongly dislike liver though, at least whatever animal it
normally comes from [I can eat it in some pastes, or the same word in
French, but I think that's a different animal - assorted bird varieties,
perhaps].)

I was brought up to believe (and have never seen any reason to change
this belief) that the only animal liver worth eating is lamb's. My
latex told me he didn't like liver, but discovered that he did when I
served him lamb's liver. (Embarrassing moment once when his mother
asked me what I was planning for tea and I said "liver" and she said
"Our Leslie doesn't like liver!" Best not to disagree with your m-i-l,
I always found.)

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by Jenny M Benson
I was brought up to believe (and have never seen any reason to change
this belief) that the only animal liver worth eating is lamb's. My
latex told me he didn't like liver, but discovered that he did when I
served him lamb's liver.

The liver of my childhood was always overcooked, either by my mum or by
the school canteen. I've since discovered that I do like liver (calf,
duck or goose) if it's fried very briefly so it's still pink in the
middle.

[Penny]

On 6 Jul 2019 08:11:06 GMT, Jim Easterbrook <***@jim-easterbrook.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Jim Easterbrook

Post by Jenny M Benson
I was brought up to believe (and have never seen any reason to change
this belief) that the only animal liver worth eating is lamb's. My
latex told me he didn't like liver, but discovered that he did when I
served him lamb's liver.

The liver of my childhood was always overcooked, either by my mum or by
the school canteen. I've since discovered that I do like liver (calf,
duck or goose) if it's fried very briefly so it's still pink in the
middle.

My mother managed to make 'big' liver more palatable than the school
kitchens but I still wasn't keen. She also bulked out the protein content
of the dish she called chicken risotto (much more like a Mallorcan paella
and made with left-overs from a roast) with chicken livers and they are
lovely. I cook them gently in butter and serve on toast.

D#1 came home from nursery one day saying she hadn't eaten any lunch
because it was "hither and onions", I fully sympathised with this.

[Vicky Ayech]

On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 08:56:49 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You're right! Sixth out of seven ingredients, just before spice extract,
so there can't be much; I've never been aware of it, and certainly never
found any. Not that I don't believe you - one can be very sensitive to
the taste of some substances; I used to strongly dislike kidney, and
couldn't enjoy a Kate and Sidney pie even if someone had taken out the
pieces of kidney. At some point I reduced my dislike - I don't know how
or if anything triggered the change - and can now enjoy a s&k. (I still
quite strongly dislike liver though, at least whatever animal it
normally comes from [I can eat it in some pastes, or the same word in
French, but I think that's a different animal - assorted bird varieties,
perhaps].)

I was brought up to believe (and have never seen any reason to change
this belief) that the only animal liver worth eating is lamb's. My
latex told me he didn't like liver, but discovered that he did when I
served him lamb's liver. (Embarrassing moment once when his mother
asked me what I was planning for tea and I said "liver" and she said
"Our Leslie doesn't like liver!" Best not to disagree with your m-i-l,
I always found.)

Actually I was brought up to believe calves' liver is the only one
worth eating. Or chicken livers. Those are nice in a fried tomato
and onion dish, in Cooking in a Bedsitter, and also as chopped liver.

[Vicky Ayech]

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019 09:42:15 +0100, Vicky Ayech

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 08:56:49 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You're right! Sixth out of seven ingredients, just before spice extract,
so there can't be much; I've never been aware of it, and certainly never
found any. Not that I don't believe you - one can be very sensitive to
the taste of some substances; I used to strongly dislike kidney, and
couldn't enjoy a Kate and Sidney pie even if someone had taken out the
pieces of kidney. At some point I reduced my dislike - I don't know how
or if anything triggered the change - and can now enjoy a s&k. (I still
quite strongly dislike liver though, at least whatever animal it
normally comes from [I can eat it in some pastes, or the same word in
French, but I think that's a different animal - assorted bird varieties,
perhaps].)

I was brought up to believe (and have never seen any reason to change
this belief) that the only animal liver worth eating is lamb's. My
latex told me he didn't like liver, but discovered that he did when I
served him lamb's liver. (Embarrassing moment once when his mother
asked me what I was planning for tea and I said "liver" and she said
"Our Leslie doesn't like liver!" Best not to disagree with your m-i-l,
I always found.)

Actually I was brought up to believe calves' liver is the only one
worth eating. Or chicken livers. Those are nice in a fried tomato
and onion dish, in Cooking in a Bedsitter, and also as chopped liver.

I think maybe calf's liver would have been a better way to say it.

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by Vicky Ayech

Actually I was brought up to believe calves' liver is the only one worth
eating. Or chicken livers. Those are nice in a fried tomato and onion
dish, in Cooking in a Bedsitter, and also as chopped liver.

I think maybe calf's liver would have been a better way to say it.

Depends how hungry you are.

[Tony Smith Gloucestershire]

Don't eat polar bear liver. It's too high in vitamin A.

[Mike]

Post by Tony Smith Gloucestershire
Don't eat polar bear liver. It's too high in vitamin A.

Likewise, husky.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Tony Smith Gloucestershire
Don't eat polar bear liver. It's too high in vitamin A.

I learned this from an Afternoon Play on BBC Radio 4 in the "Medical
Detectives" series - The Stranded Eagle. I only mention this here
because it's a fascinating series dramatising such things as how Yellow
Fever works, how Cholera spreads and - yes - vitamin A poisoning and if
you haven't heard any of them before, do give them a try next time they
pop up on R4 Extra.

Nick

[krw]

Post by Penny
I told them several times running that I thought offering 10 different
packs of frozen peas but zero packs of frozen broad beans wasn't good
enough (I used to buy them there). Nothing changed but I did find some in
Tesco.

Someone has something against frozen broad beans. Last time I wanted
some I had trouble tracking them down.

[Joe Kerr]

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

That is very odd. In the last week or two I was in a supermarket (I
can't remember which) and spotted somebody in a polo shirt bearing the
name of the shop and the word cafe filling a basket out on the shop
floor. I assumed they were replenishing the cafe.

Back when I was involved with a supermarket, about 15 years ago, the
systems definitely had the ability to transfer stock from the main
store to the restaurant.

[Mike]

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

That is very odd. In the last week or two I was in a supermarket (I
can't remember which) and spotted somebody in a polo shirt bearing the
name of the shop and the word cafe filling a basket out on the shop
floor. I assumed they were replenishing the cafe.
Back when I was involved with a supermarket, about 15 years ago, the
systems definitely had the ability to transfer stock from the main
store to the restaurant.

Maybe the polo shirt wearer was doing their own shopping?

[Joe Kerr]

Post by Mike

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

That is very odd. In the last week or two I was in a supermarket (I
can't remember which) and spotted somebody in a polo shirt bearing the
name of the shop and the word cafe filling a basket out on the shop
floor. I assumed they were replenishing the cafe.
Back when I was involved with a supermarket, about 15 years ago, the
systems definitely had the ability to transfer stock from the main
store to the restaurant.

Maybe the polo shirt wearer was doing their own shopping?

Perfectly possible, of course. It was just that there was something that
made me go, "Oh, somebody restocking the cafe.", not, "There's somebody
who's knocked off and is doing their shopping."

[the Omrud]

Post by Joe Kerr

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two
(rare, that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid
there is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that
shop was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

That is very odd. In the last week or two I was in a supermarket (I
can't remember which) and spotted somebody in a polo shirt bearing the
name of the shop and the word cafe filling a basket out on the shop
floor. I assumed they were replenishing the cafe.
Back when I was involved with a supermarket, about 15 years ago, the
systems  definitely had the ability to transfer stock from the main
store to the restaurant.

Not long at we asked for Earl Grey in a Waitrose cafe. They'd run out
so one of the assistants went and got a box from the shop.

[Mike Ruddock]

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

Reporting back as promised: I have received an answer from Morrisons.
The answer came in an email (snifffff!) whereas I wrote an actual
physical letter.

The answer was, as you would expect, placatory and but not effusive. (By
no means - thread merge - fulsome) It said that the member of staff was
incorrect about taking foods from the main store, but that, of course,
to keep the books straight it would have to be accounted for. She will
be spoken to to ensure that this sort of thing does not occur again.

Change of subject

As an example of positive service may I mention that yesterday I took my
car in to a local garage I had never used before and asked if they could
check the electrical system. I had had to buy a new battery as the old
one had just gone dead: although it would accept a charge it wouldn't
retain it for more than a few minutes. I thought it possible that the
alternator might be a bit under par.

They checked as requested and produced a table of readings of voltage
under various conditions, including full load, and declared the
alternator as working within spec. . . .

. . . and refused any payment!

Mike Ruddock

[Penny]

On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 11:58:30 +0100, Mike Ruddock <***@btinternet.com>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Mike Ruddock
As an example of positive service may I mention that yesterday I took my
car in to a local garage I had never used before and asked if they could
check the electrical system. I had had to buy a new battery as the old
one had just gone dead: although it would accept a charge it wouldn't
retain it for more than a few minutes. I thought it possible that the
alternator might be a bit under par.
They checked as requested and produced a table of readings of voltage
under various conditions, including full load, and declared the
alternator as working within spec. . . .
. . . and refused any payment!

I can add to this good customer service (if that's the right term when one
has not paid) with a similar tale of my own - hope I haven't bored you with
it before.

When bumbling around Yorkshire about a year ago my semi-automatic car
decided it wasn't going to change up out of 1st gear and displayed a STOP!
light on the dashboard. It was past 5pm at the time so my chances of
finding a dealership open was small, let alone finding the phone number for
one without wifi so I gingerly set off again, having remembered how to
change gear manually, to get to a camp site.

D#2 found me some phone numbers the following morning but no nearby
dealership could help me for several days. The car had behaved reasonably
once I got going the previous afternoon so I set off to meet d#2 and family
in Bridlington where I happened upon a KwikFit and explained my situation
to them.

They said they didn't have the software to do a full diagnostic but could
run what they had and generally check things over and reset the warning
light while I made use of their free wifi and free tea.

No charge and the car worked fine for the next week until it pulled this
stunt again in Shrewsbury on my way home.

It took three visits to my local dealer to actually fix the problem which
was, thankfully, nothing to do with the transmission but down to a faulty
brake light switch (replacement <£12 but the final cost was rather more
with diagnostics and labour). I hate modern cars!

[Paul Herber]

Post by Mike Ruddock

Post by Mike Ruddock
For several years branches of our family have met on Thursday evenings
sometimes all those family members who live in the town turned up (10,
requiring additional chairs at the table we usually occupied) at other
times there might be as few as four. The staff grew to know us and
seemed concerned on those odd occasions when there were only two (rare,
that)
This week there was a very odd development: as we arrived one of the
serving staff came over and said, very apologetically "I'm afraid there
is no food left to serve."
She modified this by saying that there was actually some food, but not
enough for all of us.
Amazed, I turned and pointed out into the main part of the shop.
"There's literally tons of food out there."
"Oh, we can't use any of that, our food has to come from a guaranteed
source."
Which left us wondering about how safe the food we bought from that shop
was.
Sorry if this has been a bore, but it strikes me as very odd that the
shop sells food that it's cafe won't use.
Mike Ruddock

Reporting back as promised: I have received an answer from Morrisons.
The answer came in an email (snifffff!) whereas I wrote an actual
physical letter.
The answer was, as you would expect, placatory and but not effusive. (By
no means - thread merge - fulsome) It said that the member of staff was
incorrect about taking foods from the main store, but that, of course,
to keep the books straight it would have to be accounted for. She will
be spoken to to ensure that this sort of thing does not occur again.
Change of subject
As an example of positive service may I mention that yesterday I took my
car in to a local garage I had never used before and asked if they could
check the electrical system. I had had to buy a new battery as the old
one had just gone dead: although it would accept a charge it wouldn't
retain it for more than a few minutes. I thought it possible that the
alternator might be a bit under par.
They checked as requested and produced a table of readings of voltage
under various conditions, including full load, and declared the
alternator as working within spec. . . .
. . . and refused any payment!

No charge ,,,