Discussion:
National Registration 1939
(too old to reply)
Keith NZ
2007-02-09 20:09:02 UTC
Permalink
Recent discussions on this newsgroup/list resulted in some
misinformation being posted about the 1939 National Registration
exercise, which in effect served as a census.

I asked the ONS a series of questions and received from the following.
Their message is repeated here with their permission.

~~~~~~~~
1. We do not know whether households completed forms. If they did,
then they are certainly no longer in existence.

2. What we do have is the Transcript Books which are the schedules
(booklets) made up by the 1939 enumerators showing one line of
information for each person in the household.

3. We do NOT have index cards made up from the household forms.

4. What we do have is the A1 which is a card index originally made up
from the information held at Local Registration Offices and sent to
Southport at the time National Registration ended in 1952. These
cards contained information relating to the whereabouts, name, etc, of
persons in 1952 which was not necessarily the same as in 1939 if they
had moved house, got married, etc. These cards were added to and/or
amended right up until 1991 in respect of persons born before 1952.

5. These documents are no longer held in the Ballroom at Smedley
Hydro. Some are in the basement and some are on microfilm.

Further queries with regard the 1939 National Registration records
should be directed to the ONS Customer Contact Centre at
***@statistics.gov.uk

Ref: CCC84596
End of ONS message
~~~~~~~~~~~

As to if any annotations were made to the Transcript Books they don't
say. Seemingly the A1 index was used for NHS purposes.

The data originally gathered was
1. Names,
2. Sex,
3. Age,
4. Occupation, profession, trade or employment,
5. Residence,
6. Condition as to marriage,
7. Membership of Naval, Military or Air Force Reserves or Auxiliary
Forces or of Civil Defence Services or Reserves.

Seemingly where born was not a requirement, so not as detailed as a
census.

Keith Wellington, NZ
d***@lycos.com
2007-02-09 21:15:29 UTC
Permalink
In the Times archive, there's an article dated 18 Sept 1939 saying
that National Registration Day is Friday 29th Sept 1939 and that "on
that day householders and others will be required to record on the
registration forms to be distributed details of all persons resident
in the United Kingdom". It goes on to say that it will be the job of
the enumerators who collect the completed forms the following morning
to write out and issue identity cards for every person registered. The
list of information collected tallies with Keith's post except that
rather than age, it is the date of birth that is recorded on the forms
(but maybe only the age made it to the index).
Dick
John Cartmell
2007-02-09 23:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@lycos.com
In the Times archive, there's an article dated 18 Sept 1939 saying
that National Registration Day is Friday 29th Sept 1939 and that "on
that day householders and others will be required to record on the
registration forms to be distributed details of all persons resident
in the United Kingdom". It goes on to say that it will be the job of
the enumerators who collect the completed forms the following morning
to write out and issue identity cards for every person registered. The
list of information collected tallies with Keith's post except that
rather than age, it is the date of birth that is recorded on the forms
(but maybe only the age made it to the index).
If that's the information that went onto the Identity Cards - and later NHS
Cards - then it included the date of birth.
--
John
BobC
2007-02-10 14:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Cartmell
[10 quoted lines suppressed]
If that's the information that went onto the Identity Cards - and later NHS
Cards - then it included the date of birth.
I just dug out my old National Registration Identity card issued in 1945 -
it didn't actually give the date of birth. However it did give an expiry
date and that would have been my 16th birthday.

Perhaps an adults card would have shown a DoB.

BobC
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
David J
2007-02-10 23:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by BobC
Post by John Cartmell
[10 quoted lines suppressed]
If that's the information that went onto the Identity Cards - and later NHS
Cards - then it included the date of birth.
I just dug out my old National Registration Identity card issued in 1945 -
it didn't actually give the date of birth. However it did give an expiry
date and that would have been my 16th birthday.
Perhaps an adults card would have shown a DoB.
I do recall that the first 7 digits of each National Identity Number
were the same for the entire family, with only the last number used to
signify the persons 'position' in the family structure.

I had a suffix /4, as I was the fourth in my family.

David
c***@postmaster.co.uk
2007-02-11 01:38:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David J
Post by BobC
Post by John Cartmell
[10 quoted lines suppressed]
If that's the information that went onto the Identity Cards - and later NHS
Cards - then it included the date of birth.
I just dug out my old National Registration Identity card issued in 1945 -
it didn't actually give the date of birth. However it did give an expiry
date and that would have been my 16th birthday.
Perhaps an adults card would have shown a DoB.
No, there was no DoB or expiry date on the adult card.
Post by David J
I do recall that the first 7 digits of each National Identity Number
were the same for the entire family, with only the last number used to
signify the persons 'position' in the family structure.
I had a suffix /4, as I was the fourth in my family.
David
The format on the two I have (adult and child) was 4 letters, 3
digits, a colon and a digit, although mine has a dash instead of the
last digit.

The same number was used for NHS medical cards until quite recently.
--
Chris
Researching Penge, Anerley, London SE20, and neighbouring parts of
Beckenham, Kent.
Charles Ellson
2007-02-11 15:07:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@postmaster.co.uk
Post by David J
Post by BobC
Post by John Cartmell
[10 quoted lines suppressed]
If that's the information that went onto the Identity Cards - and later NHS
Cards - then it included the date of birth.
I just dug out my old National Registration Identity card issued in 1945 -
it didn't actually give the date of birth. However it did give an expiry
date and that would have been my 16th birthday.
Perhaps an adults card would have shown a DoB.
No, there was no DoB or expiry date on the adult card.
Post by David J
I do recall that the first 7 digits of each National Identity Number
were the same for the entire family, with only the last number used to
signify the persons 'position' in the family structure.
I had a suffix /4, as I was the fourth in my family.
David
The format on the two I have (adult and child) was 4 letters, 3
digits, a colon and a digit, although mine has a dash instead of the
last digit.
The same number was used for NHS medical cards until quite recently.
Possibly for wartime-originated IDs but later NHS numbers in England
and Wales were derived from an alphabetical (always four letters?)
prefix followed by a number matching the individual's birth register
entry number.
Robert Stonehouse
2007-02-11 23:23:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 23:18:23 +0000, David J
...
Post by David J
Post by BobC
Post by John Cartmell
If that's the information that went onto the Identity Cards - and later NHS
Cards - then it included the date of birth.
I just dug out my old National Registration Identity card issued in 1945 -
it didn't actually give the date of birth. However it did give an expiry
date and that would have been my 16th birthday.
Perhaps an adults card would have shown a DoB.
I do recall that the first 7 digits of each National Identity Number
were the same for the entire family, with only the last number used to
signify the persons 'position' in the family structure.
I had a suffix /4, as I was the fourth in my family.
I have the identity cards for my father, mother and brother
(born 1946). They are broadly in the same form, but 'UNDER
SIXTEEN YEARS' has a buff card against the blue-green of the
adults.

The numbers after the four letters are:
Father 103.6,
Mother 103.7,
(both issued in 1943)
Mine 103.8 (which I remember, though I can't spot the card)
Brother (different letters) 155.-
(issued of course in 1946.)
Who numbers 1-5 may have been, I have no idea. There were no
other family members within 150 miles in 1939

The information is name, class code (Aha! Not on 'UNDER
SIXTEEN YEARS'), address, signature (parent's signature on
'UNDER SIXTEEN YEARS') and date of issue of the card (rubber
stamped).

My father's certificate of registration under the National
Service (Armed Forces) Acts has a different registration
number and also an occupational classification number, name,
address, date of birth and holder's signature. No date of
issue.
--
Robert Stonehouse
To mail me, replace invalid with uk. Inconvenience regretted
A.Lefevre
2007-02-11 15:51:25 UTC
Permalink
My recollection of ID cards is of a man sitting at the table in our house
filling in something. Whether we had already completed a form I don't
remember. Neither do I remember if the cards were issued at that time. I
can only say that it was between July and December, because a sister
married in July and if she had still been there I would have been /6 and
not /5 and in December we moved house.

I have just delved into my archives, I have the cards of my eldest sister
and of her husband. Hers has the original number but with the address she
moved to in 1941, and is dated February 1948. Her husbands was issued when
he was demobbed, October 1945, with a very different number. This was the
new Medical Card number. I assume the re-issue was to do with the new
Health Sevice. Interesting, the original numbering had four letters
indicating an area, the demobbed serviceman's had only three, and these are
in the National Registration Office Stamp. There is no date of birth, there
is a box "Class Code", this is flled in 'A', presumably adult.

Alec Lefevre


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