How I joined the Hare Krishnas

[Jahnu]

I grew up in Denmark in the 60s and 70s. Even though Denmark has a
state supported Lutheran Church, it's considered a very atheistic
country.

In the 60s and 70s, religious people were considered weirdos. No one
in my family, circle of friends or teachers in school believed in God.
Thus I grew up as a complete atheist. Later in life, probably from
smoking ganja, I began wondering about God and the higher dimensions
of life. I was around 19 by then. Also, another reason I started
wondering about God - I couldn't understand that even though I got all
the sex, drugs and rock'nroll, I could possibly want, I was never
really satisfied. I always felt something lacking.

I tried so many things. I tried to be an intellectual communist. I
read all the books in the library on philosophy and religion. One book
I was quite attracted to was one written by Paul Brunton - an American
who went to India to find a guru, but couldn't commit to any, so he
wrote his own book. I forget what it was called. But now I know it was
inspired by impersonal, Mayavada philosophy.

I became very critical of society. Me and and some of my friends even
talked about joining Bader-Mainhof of Rote Arme Fraktion, but luckily
it remained the idle talk of a bunch of stoners.

I tried to be a Buddhist. I tried yoga and meditation. I practiced
pranayama. At that time I met the Mormons, and they gave me my first
experience of God. I converted to the Mormons. I was baptized and
everything. But there were too many questions they had no good answers
to. At that time I was on a quest to find the truth and real purpose
of life. I was very attracted to the ideas of karma and reincarnation.

One day, I was 24 by then, I was very frustrated in existential
anxiety and I called out to Jesus - Oh Christ, please show me the way.
And lo and behold, the very next day my girl-friend came home… she
said - I met this weird dude on the street and he wouldn't let me go
until I had taken this book, and she threw it at me - here I know you
are interested in this shit. It turned out she had met a Hare Krishna,
who gave her The Science of Self-realization in Danish.

As soon as I read that book, I knew I had found God and the meaning of
life. Half a year later I moved into the Hare Krishna temple in
Copenhagen. That was in 1982. So it took me, like, 5 years from I
began my search for the truth of life, and till I met the Hare
Krishnas.

Thank God for Prabhupada and vice versa… and Jesus showed me the way
:)

Krishna says:

After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge
surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all
that is. Such a great soul is very rare. (Bg 7.19)
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

On 29 Oct 2017 04:55 PM ,Jahnu <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for sharing your tragic story. Hopefully, it will prevent other confused people from giving up their minds to a cult.

Post by Jahnu
I grew up in Denmark in the 60s and 70s. Even though Denmark has a
state supported Lutheran Church, it's considered a very atheistic
country.
In the 60s and 70s, religious people were considered weirdos. No one
in my family, circle of friends or teachers in school believed in God.
Thus I grew up as a complete atheist. Later in life, probably from
smoking ganja, I began wondering about God and the higher dimensions
of life. I was around 19 by then. Also, another reason I started
wondering about God - I couldn't understand that even though I got all
the sex, drugs and rock'nroll, I could possibly want, I was never
really satisfied. I always felt something lacking.
I tried so many things. I tried to be an intellectual communist. I
read all the books in the library on philosophy and religion. One book
I was quite attracted to was one written by Paul Brunton - an American
who went to India to find a guru, but couldn't commit to any, so he
wrote his own book. I forget what it was called. But now I know it was
inspired by impersonal, Mayavada philosophy.
I became very critical of society. Me and and some of my friends even
talked about joining Bader-Mainhof of Rote Arme Fraktion, but luckily
it remained the idle talk of a bunch of stoners.
I tried to be a Buddhist. I tried yoga and meditation. I practiced
pranayama. At that time I met the Mormons, and they gave me my first
experience of God. I converted to the Mormons. I was baptized and
everything. But there were too many questions they had no good answers
to. At that time I was on a quest to find the truth and real purpose
of life. I was very attracted to the ideas of karma and reincarnation.
One day, I was 24 by then, I was very frustrated in existential
anxiety and I called out to Jesus - Oh Christ, please show me the way.
And lo and behold, the very next day my girl-friend came home? she
said - I met this weird dude on the street and he wouldn't let me go
until I had taken this book, and she threw it at me - here I know you
are interested in this shit. It turned out she had met a Hare Krishna,
who gave her The Science of Self-realization in Danish.
As soon as I read that book, I knew I had found God and the meaning of
life. Half a year later I moved into the Hare Krishna temple in
Copenhagen. That was in 1982. So it took me, like, 5 years from I
began my search for the truth of life, and till I met the Hare
Krishnas.
Thank God for Prabhupada and vice versa? and Jesus showed me the way
:)
After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge
surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all
that is. Such a great soul is very rare. (Bg 7.19)
Have a look at my art -
http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das
https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch
https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu
https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Kevrob]

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Thanks for sharing your tragic story. Hopefully, it will prevent other confused people from giving up their minds to a cult.

Post by Jahnu
I grew up in Denmark in the 60s and 70s. Even though Denmark has a
state supported Lutheran Church, it's considered a very atheistic
country.
In the 60s and 70s, religious people were considered weirdos. No one
in my family, circle of friends or teachers in school believed in God.
Thus I grew up as a complete atheist. Later in life, probably from
smoking ganja, I began wondering about God and the higher dimensions
of life. I was around 19 by then. Also, another reason I started
wondering about God - I couldn't understand that even though I got all
the sex, drugs and rock'nroll, I could possibly want, I was never
really satisfied. I always felt something lacking.
I tried so many things. I tried to be an intellectual communist. I
read all the books in the library on philosophy and religion. One book
I was quite attracted to was one written by Paul Brunton - an American
who went to India to find a guru, but couldn't commit to any, so he
wrote his own book. I forget what it was called. But now I know it was
inspired by impersonal, Mayavada philosophy.
I became very critical of society. Me and and some of my friends even
talked about joining Bader-Mainhof of Rote Arme Fraktion, but luckily
it remained the idle talk of a bunch of stoners.
I tried to be a Buddhist. I tried yoga and meditation. I practiced
pranayama. At that time I met the Mormons, and they gave me my first
experience of God. I converted to the Mormons. I was baptized and
everything. But there were too many questions they had no good answers
to. At that time I was on a quest to find the truth and real purpose
of life. I was very attracted to the ideas of karma and reincarnation.
One day, I was 24 by then, I was very frustrated in existential
anxiety and I called out to Jesus - Oh Christ, please show me the way.
And lo and behold, the very next day my girl-friend came home? she
said - I met this weird dude on the street and he wouldn't let me go
until I had taken this book, and she threw it at me - here I know you
are interested in this shit. It turned out she had met a Hare Krishna,
who gave her The Science of Self-realization in Danish.
As soon as I read that book, I knew I had found God and the meaning of
life. Half a year later I moved into the Hare Krishna temple in
Copenhagen. That was in 1982. So it took me, like, 5 years from I
began my search for the truth of life, and till I met the Hare
Krishnas.
Thank God for Prabhupada and vice versa? and Jesus showed me the way
:)

Jesper posted this story before in a.a:

This version from over 6 years ago:

[quote]

Because I consider it more or less like witnessing, like a Christian.
Who cares? But since you ask let me tell you a little bit about
myself.

Until I was 19 I was a complete atheist. I was very tallented, popular
and got all the pretty girls. I was a drummer in a band, which is all
I ever wanted. I have had all the sex, drugs and rockn'rloll I could
possibly want. I was also an artist. Big canvasses, I produced. Some
of them were good, and I would sell them. I once had a painting
accepted to a the prestigious Fall-exhibition, at the art-academy of
Copenhagen.

But even I got all my desires fulfilled, I always felt as if
something was lacking. That's when I started to speculate, maybe there
is a God. Maybe there is more to life than just fulfilling bodily and
mental desires.

From that time on (I was 19) I started to actively search for God. I
tried to be a buddhist, a Christian, a self-professed intellectual, a
revolutionary. We used to think Bader-Meinhof was cool.

Then one day, the Mormons came to my door. My flat was the hang-out
place for the dudes. We used to sit and get high and play chess all
day. So the Mormons came and knocked on the door. My friends all
yelled from the living-room - Bah, get the fuck out of our face, but
at that time, I was 23, I was searching for the truth. So I invited
them in. What's to lose, I thought.

And I was also impressed how they dared go around to people like that.
So I invited them in. They asked us to get down on our knees. My
friends were scoffing and laughing, get out of here. But me and my
best friend got down on our knees.

So these two clean-cut American missionaries prayed - Dear Jesus,
please touch these peoples' heart.

So then I had my first God-experience, I kid you not. Ok, I was
stoned, as usual, so maybe my experienced was hightened by the pot.
But I saw the light, and tears were streaming down my cheeks. My
friend, too.

So then he and I became mormons, baptized and everything. But for me
it lasted only 6 months. Too many questions they couldn't answer, and
I was on a quest. I also met a girl in there. She was not religious at
all. She was just in the church one Sunday, because her mother was
there.

So we moved in together and had a kid, a boy. Today he is 32 and a
growler in a death metal band. They are quite big in Scandinavia. The
Cleansing they are called. Because of living in sin, I was
excumunicated from the Mormons. I didn't mind too much, because the
whole thing with Joseph Smith and the golden tablets that no one had
ever seen, was a little hard for me to swallow.

So I was still searching. One day I was very existentially frustrated.
Jesus was the only one I knew whom to pray to, so I prayed, O Jesus,
please show me the way. And low and behold - the very next day my
girl-friend came home telling me - I got this book from a crazy fellow
I met on the street. He just wouldn't go away. Here, and she threw the
book in my lap, I know you are interested in this shit.

And that was the Science of Self-realization by AC. Bhaktivedanta
Swami Prabhupada. I read it, and got the asnwers to every question I
had ever asked about God and existence. I knew immediately, that this
is the Truth. I told my friends - I HAVE FOUND THE TRUTH. Yeah right,
now he's finally lost it completely, was their reaction. 6 months
later I joined the Hare Krishnas. That was in 1982. And I have never
had any reason to regret it. On the contrary. I really do experience a
higher pleasure by surrendering to Krishna.

[/quote] From the 2011 thread "Only Surrender Is Required"

Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.atheism/UEMXlX9G0MM

It was spam then, and it is spam, now.

It shows that he was a ripe sucker. Pimply LDS "elder" missionaries
or curry-stenched airport beggars hawking Krishna - the woo didn't
matter. He'd fall for any line that allowed him to avoid grappling
with the reality of living in the world as a rational individual.

Of course, mere membership in the hive mind isn't enough. These
moral zombies are required to "eat the brains' of other individuals,
so he violates the "no proselyting of religion" section of the
group charter and ignores us when we call him on it.

Kevin R

[hypatiab7]

Post by Kevrob

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Thanks for sharing your tragic story. Hopefully, it will prevent other confused people from giving up their minds to a cult.

Post by Jahnu
I grew up in Denmark in the 60s and 70s. Even though Denmark has a
state supported Lutheran Church, it's considered a very atheistic
country.
In the 60s and 70s, religious people were considered weirdos. No one
in my family, circle of friends or teachers in school believed in God.
Thus I grew up as a complete atheist. Later in life, probably from
smoking ganja, I began wondering about God and the higher dimensions
of life. I was around 19 by then. Also, another reason I started
wondering about God - I couldn't understand that even though I got all
the sex, drugs and rock'nroll, I could possibly want, I was never
really satisfied. I always felt something lacking.
I tried so many things. I tried to be an intellectual communist. I
read all the books in the library on philosophy and religion. One book
I was quite attracted to was one written by Paul Brunton - an American
who went to India to find a guru, but couldn't commit to any, so he
wrote his own book. I forget what it was called. But now I know it was
inspired by impersonal, Mayavada philosophy.
I became very critical of society. Me and and some of my friends even
talked about joining Bader-Mainhof of Rote Arme Fraktion, but luckily
it remained the idle talk of a bunch of stoners.
I tried to be a Buddhist. I tried yoga and meditation. I practiced
pranayama. At that time I met the Mormons, and they gave me my first
experience of God. I converted to the Mormons. I was baptized and
everything. But there were too many questions they had no good answers
to. At that time I was on a quest to find the truth and real purpose
of life. I was very attracted to the ideas of karma and reincarnation.
One day, I was 24 by then, I was very frustrated in existential
anxiety and I called out to Jesus - Oh Christ, please show me the way.
And lo and behold, the very next day my girl-friend came home? she
said - I met this weird dude on the street and he wouldn't let me go
until I had taken this book, and she threw it at me - here I know you
are interested in this shit. It turned out she had met a Hare Krishna,
who gave her The Science of Self-realization in Danish.
As soon as I read that book, I knew I had found God and the meaning of
life. Half a year later I moved into the Hare Krishna temple in
Copenhagen. That was in 1982. So it took me, like, 5 years from I
began my search for the truth of life, and till I met the Hare
Krishnas.
Thank God for Prabhupada and vice versa? and Jesus showed me the way
:)

[quote]
Because I consider it more or less like witnessing, like a Christian.
Who cares? But since you ask let me tell you a little bit about
myself.
Until I was 19 I was a complete atheist. I was very tallented, popular
and got all the pretty girls. I was a drummer in a band, which is all
I ever wanted. I have had all the sex, drugs and rockn'rloll I could
possibly want. I was also an artist. Big canvasses, I produced. Some
of them were good, and I would sell them. I once had a painting
accepted to a the prestigious Fall-exhibition, at the art-academy of
Copenhagen.
But even I got all my desires fulfilled, I always felt as if
something was lacking. That's when I started to speculate, maybe there
is a God. Maybe there is more to life than just fulfilling bodily and
mental desires.
From that time on (I was 19) I started to actively search for God. I
tried to be a buddhist, a Christian, a self-professed intellectual, a
revolutionary. We used to think Bader-Meinhof was cool.
Then one day, the Mormons came to my door. My flat was the hang-out
place for the dudes. We used to sit and get high and play chess all
day. So the Mormons came and knocked on the door. My friends all
yelled from the living-room - Bah, get the fuck out of our face, but
at that time, I was 23, I was searching for the truth. So I invited
them in. What's to lose, I thought.
And I was also impressed how they dared go around to people like that.
So I invited them in. They asked us to get down on our knees. My
friends were scoffing and laughing, get out of here. But me and my
best friend got down on our knees.
So these two clean-cut American missionaries prayed - Dear Jesus,
please touch these peoples' heart.
So then I had my first God-experience, I kid you not. Ok, I was
stoned, as usual, so maybe my experienced was hightened by the pot.
But I saw the light, and tears were streaming down my cheeks. My
friend, too.
So then he and I became mormons, baptized and everything. But for me
it lasted only 6 months. Too many questions they couldn't answer, and
I was on a quest. I also met a girl in there. She was not religious at
all. She was just in the church one Sunday, because her mother was
there.
So we moved in together and had a kid, a boy. Today he is 32 and a
growler in a death metal band. They are quite big in Scandinavia. The
Cleansing they are called. Because of living in sin, I was
excumunicated from the Mormons. I didn't mind too much, because the
whole thing with Joseph Smith and the golden tablets that no one had
ever seen, was a little hard for me to swallow.
So I was still searching. One day I was very existentially frustrated.
Jesus was the only one I knew whom to pray to, so I prayed, O Jesus,
please show me the way. And low and behold - the very next day my
girl-friend came home telling me - I got this book from a crazy fellow
I met on the street. He just wouldn't go away. Here, and she threw the
book in my lap, I know you are interested in this shit.
And that was the Science of Self-realization by AC. Bhaktivedanta
Swami Prabhupada. I read it, and got the asnwers to every question I
had ever asked about God and existence. I knew immediately, that this
is the Truth. I told my friends - I HAVE FOUND THE TRUTH. Yeah right,
now he's finally lost it completely, was their reaction. 6 months
later I joined the Hare Krishnas. That was in 1982. And I have never
had any reason to regret it. On the contrary. I really do experience a
higher pleasure by surrendering to Krishna.
[/quote] From the 2011 thread "Only Surrender Is Required"
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.atheism/UEMXlX9G0MM
It was spam then, and it is spam, now.
It shows that he was a ripe sucker. Pimply LDS "elder" missionaries
or curry-stenched airport beggars hawking Krishna - the woo didn't
matter. He'd fall for any line that allowed him to avoid grappling
with the reality of living in the world as a rational individual.
Of course, mere membership in the hive mind isn't enough. These
moral zombies are required to "eat the brains' of other individuals,
so he violates the "no proselyting of religion" section of the
group charter and ignores us when we call him on it.
Kevin R

Did Jesper recently mention that he was married to a total stranger in a
group Hippy hop wedding? They had some kids and, after several years, the
wife and kids dumped him. Understandable.

[Jahnu]

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 21:33:52 -0700 (PDT), Kevin, glaced eyes, slack

Ah was a moron then, and Ah is a moron, now.
It shows Ah was a ripe sucker. Mah Pimply father who would
molest me or meat stenched Mickey Mouse clones - the woo done no
matter. Ah'd fall for any line that allowed me to avoid grappling
with the reality of living in the world as a rational individual.

You? Rational? hahaha :) That was actually funny.



Krishna says:

Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the
non-existent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the
eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by
studying the nature of both. (Bg. 2.16)

So according to Krishna's definition, reality is that which is eternal
and unreality, or illusion, is that which is temporary. Note that
illusion does exist, but it is unreal in the sense that it's not
eternal. Someone may object - if I smash my head into a wall, the pain
I feel is very real. How can it not be real? But if seen in the light
of eternity it is not real. Illusion exists, but the reason it is not
considered real is because it is not eternal. It's like a dream. A
dream happens, but when we wake up, we understand it was not real.
Life in a material body is like that - dream-like. We'll realize that,
if not before, then at the time of death. Death will be a rude
awakening for the atheist.

So reality and illusion is defined by time. One is eternal the other
is temporary. And if you think about it, it makes sense. Anything
seen in the light of eternity will be manifested for such a short
time, that it is as if it didn't really happen.

Brahma, the god of creation, is said to live as long as the universe
lasts - which is calculated to be 311 trillion solar years. So if you
live for such an unfathomable length of time, then imagine what a
person's life-span on earth of, say, 80 years must look like. I don't
even live for a second from Brahma's point of view. How real would a
person be to you if he existed for only a second? Think about it.

If you take 80 years out of 311 trillion years it is such a miniscule
portion of time, that for all practical purposes it might as well not
have happened. But then, if you take Brahma's lifespan and compare it
to eternal time, it is just as little. However long time is taken out
of eternal time, it will still amount to nothing. The duration of the
universe will make a lifespan on earth seem completely insignificant,
and the cosmic time of millions, billions, and trillions of years seem
totally inconsequential and insignificant from the point of view of
eternal time. So from the point of view of eternity, anything that is
not eternal is but an illusory glimpse.

That's how one can understand that anything which has a beginning and
an end is illusory. Only that which is eternal is real. Now, in this
world, what is then real, someone might ask. We don't have any
experience of something that lasts forever, do we? Yes we do. The only
thing, that lasts forever is the soul - ie. consciousness. The soul is
eternal, so in the material world the only real thing is the soul,
everything else is temporary and thus illusory.

That's why self-realization, according to Vaishnava theology, means to
realize one's eternal self beyond the temporary body and mind. Krishna
gives a brilliant argument in the Bhagavad Gita to help a thoughtful
person experience his eternal self. A person's body goes through
different stages of infancy, childhood, youth, old age and finally
death. But during all these changes of the body and the mind, the self
(the inner sense of I-feeling) or the inner observer remains constant.
That's one way we can logically understand we are eternal.

The human life-form is unique in the sense that it allows the self to
understand its own eternality. So the purpose of human life is to
connect with the eternal self. If one is simply absorbed in the body
and its demands, one is wasting this valuable opportunity - an
opportunity that is only available in the human life-form. Eating,
sleeping, mating and defending, the soul can do in any life-form, but
only in the human form can the self connect with eternity, ie.
reality.

Krishna says:

Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these
kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. (Bg 2.12)

As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood
to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at
death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change. (Bg 2.13)

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I
am unborn and infallible. (Bg. 7.25)







Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Kevrob]

Post by Jahnu
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 21:33:52 -0700 (PDT), Kevin, glaced eyes, slack

Ah was a moron then, and Ah is a moron, now.
It shows Ah was a ripe sucker. Mah Pimply father who would
molest me

Wow! I must have really struck home! To resort to insulting my late
father, a better man than a million of you, when your pooh widdle
feewings get hurt. Where's that Eastern calm and "moksha?"

Don't troll here if you don't want to be insulted for your
idiotic theistic proselytizing.

Post by Jahnu
Krishna says:.....

Nothing. he's a myth.

Kevin R

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 21:33:52 -0700 (PDT), Kevin, glaced eyes, slack

Ah was a moron then, and Ah is a moron, now.
It shows Ah was a ripe sucker. Mah Pimply father who would
molest me or meat stenched Mickey Mouse clones - the woo done no
matter. Ah'd fall for any line that allowed me to avoid grappling
with the reality of living in the world as a rational individual.

You? Rational? hahaha :) That was actually funny.

Nobody gives a shit.

[Jahnu]

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Nobody gives a shit.

Wrong. People with brains give a shit.

"The reader is nowhere raised into and sustained in a bigger, purer or
rarer region of thought than in the Bhagavad Gita"
- Henry David Thoreau

"The religion and philosophy of the Hebrews are those of a wilder and
ruder tribe, wanting the civility and intellectual refinements and
subtlety of Vedic culture." - Henry David Thoreau
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Kevrob]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Nobody gives a shit.

Wrong. People with brains give a shit.
{Quote from - Henry David Thoreau }

Thoreau has his good points: his use of the aphorism, "that
government governs best that governs least" comes to mind.
But HDT was a sucker for Emerson's transcendentalism,
and was a bit of a nature-worshipper. All hooey and woo-woo,
to my mind. Serious-minded people can hold perfectly fine ideas
on one thing, and be as stupid as the rest of the mob about others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Thoreau preached self-reliance and mooched off his friends, too.

Post by Jahnu
Have a look at my art -

No. People whose opinions I value have looked, and they
say it's crap. Why waste my time?

Kevin R

[Jahnu]

Post by Kevrob
No. People whose opinions I value have looked, and they
say it's crap. Why waste my time?

"The religion and philosophy of the Hebrews are those of a wilder and
ruder tribe, wanting the civility and intellectual refinements and
subtlety of Vedic culture." - Henry David Thoreau
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Kevrob
No. People whose opinions I value have looked, and they
say it's crap. Why waste my time?

"The religion and philosophy of the Hebrews are those of a wilder and
ruder tribe, wanting the civility and intellectual refinements and
subtlety of Vedic culture." - Henry David Thoreau

I'd like a citation for that Thoreau quote please. I'd like to see it in its entire context. Of course. Thanks in advance.

[Kevrob]

Post by Jeanne Douglas

Post by Jahnu

Post by Kevrob
No. People whose opinions I value have looked, and they
say it's crap. Why waste my time?

"The religion and philosophy of the Hebrews are those of a wilder and
ruder tribe, wanting the civility and intellectual refinements and
subtlety of Vedic culture." - Henry David Thoreau

I'd like a citation for that Thoreau quote please. I'd like to see it in its entire context. Of course. Thanks in advance.

Thoreau's Journal, from THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1905/02/thoreaus-journal-part-ii/542103/

All the context one would need, there.

Thoreau was a right mystic puddin' head, much of the time.

Kevin R

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Nobody gives a shit.

Wrong. People with brains give a shit.

Names. We want names of these so-called "people with brains".

[Don Martin]

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 22:29:14 -0500, "Jeanne Douglas"

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Thanks for sharing your tragic story. Hopefully, it will prevent other confused people from giving up their minds to a cult.

It is good to see that his ignorance and gullibility won out in the
end. That occasionally happens to Danes who are not so Great.

[Jahnu]

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:19:37 -0400, Don Martin

Post by Don Martin
It is good to see that his ignorance and gullibility won out in the
end. That occasionally happens to Danes who are not so Great.

It is amazing how much Western science has taught us. Today, for
example, kids in grammar school learn that the sun is 93 million miles
from the earth and that the speed of light is 186,000 miles per
second. Yoga may teach us about our Higher Self, but it can't supply
this kind of information about physics or astronomy.

Or can it? Professor Subhash Kak of Louisiana State University
recently called my attention to a remarkable statement by Sayana, a
fourteenth century Indian scholar. In his commentary on a hymn in the
Rig Veda, the oldest and perhaps most mystical text ever composed in
India, Sayana has this to say: "With deep respect, I bow to the sun,
who travels 2,202 yojanas in half a nimesha."

A yojana is about nine American miles; a nimesha is 16/75 of a second.
Mathematically challenged readers, get out your calculators!

2,202 yojanas x 9 miles x 75/8 nimeshas = 185,794 m. p. s.

Basically, Sayana is saying that sunlight travels at 186,000 miles per
second! How could a Vedic scholar who died in 1387 A. D. have known
the correct figure for the speed of light? If this was just a wild
guess it's the most amazing coincidence in the history of science!

The yoga tradition is full of such coincidences. Take for instance the
mala many yoga students wear around their neck. Since these rosaries
are used to keep track of the number of mantras a person is repeating,
students often ask why they have 108 beads instead of 100. Part of the
reason is that the mala represent the ecliptic, the path of the sun
and moon across the sky.

Yogis divide the ecliptic into 27 equal sections called nakshatras,
and each of these into four equal sectors called paadas, or "steps,"
marking the 108 steps that the sun and moon take through heaven.

Each is associated with a particular blessing force, with which you
align yourself as you turn the beads.

Traditionally, yoga students stop at the 109th "guru bead," flip the
mala around in their hand, and continue reciting their mantra as they
move backward through the beads. The guru bead represents the summer
and winter solstices, when the sun appears to stop in its course and
reverse directions. In the yoga tradition we learn that we're deeply
interconnected with all of nature. Using a mala is a symbolic way of
connecting ourselves with the cosmic cycles governing our universe.

But Professor Kak points out yet another coincidence: The distance
between the earth and the sun is approximately 108 times the sun's
diameter. The diameter of the sun is about 108 times the earth's
diameter. And the distance between the earth and the moon is 108 times
the moon's diameter.

Could this be the reason the ancient sages considered 108 such a
sacred number? If the microcosm (us) mirrors the macrocosm (the solar
system), then maybe you could say there are 108 steps between our
ordinary human awareness and the divine light at the center of our
being. Each time we chant another mantra as our mala beads slip
through our fingers, we are taking another step toward our own inner
sun.

As we read through ancient Indian texts, we find so much the sages of
antiquity could not possibly have known-but did. While our European
and Middle Eastern ancestors claimed that the universe was created
about 6,000 years ago, the yogis have always maintained that our
present cosmos is billions of years old, and that it's just one of
many such universes which have arisen and dissolved in the vastness of
eternity.

In fact the Puranas, encyclopedias of yogic lore thousands of years
old, describe the birth of our solar system out of a "milk ocean," the
Milky Way. Through the will of the Creator, they tell us, a vortex
shaped like a lotus arose from the navel of eternity. It was called
Hiranya Garbha, the shining womb. It gradually coalesced into our
world, but will perish some day billions of years hence when the sun
expands to many times it present size, swallowing all life on earth.
In the end, the Puranas say, the ashes of the earth will be blown into
space by the cosmic wind.

Today we known this is a scientifically accurate, if poetic,
description of the fate of our planet.

The Surya Siddhanta is the oldest surviving astronomical text in the
Indian tradition. Some Western scholars date it to perhaps the fifth
or sixth centuries A. D., though the text itself claims to represent a
tradition much, much older. It explains that the earth is shaped like
a ball, and states that at the very opposite side of the planet from
India is a great city where the sun is rising at the same time it sets
in India. In this city, the Surya Siddhanta claims, lives a race of
siddhas, or advanced spiritual adepts. If you trace the globe of the
earth around to the exact opposite side of India, you'll find Mexico.
Is it possible that the ancient Indians were well aware of the great
sages/astronomers of Central America many centuries before Columbus
discovered America?- the Mayans or Incas!

Knowing the unknowable: To us today it seems impossible that the speed
of light or the fate of our solar system could be determined without
advanced astronomical instruments. -as Sanjee argues!!

How could the writers of old Sanskrit texts have known the unknowable?
In searching for an explanation we first need to understand that these
ancient scientists were not just intellectuals, they were practicing
yogis. The very first lines of the Surya Siddhanta, for of the Golden
Age a great astronomer named Maya desired to learn the secrets of the
heavens, so he first performed rigorous yogic practices. Then the
answers to his questions appeared in his mind in an intuitive flash.

Does this sound unlikely? Yoga Sutra 3:26-28 states that through,
samyama (concentration, meditation, and unbroken mental absorption) on
the Sun, Moon and Pole star, we can gain knowledge of the planets and
stars. Sutra 3:33 clarifies, saying: "Through keenly developed
intuition, everything can be known." Highly developed intuition is
called pratibha in yoga. It is accessible only to those who have
completely stilled their mind, focusing their attention on one object
with laser-like intensity. Those who have limited their mind are no
longer limited to the fragments of knowledge supplied by the five
senses. All knowledge becomes accessible to them.

"There are [those] who would say that consciousness, acting on itself,
can find universal knowledge," Professor Kak admits. "In fact this is
the
traditional Indian view."

Perhaps the ancient sages didn't need advanced astronomical
instruments. After all, they had yoga.
.

Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 18:19:37 -0400, Don Martin

Post by Don Martin
It is good to see that his ignorance and gullibility won out in the
end. That occasionally happens to Danes who are not so Great.

It is amazing how much Western science has taught us. Today, for
example, kids in grammar school learn that the sun is 93 million miles
from the earth and that the speed of light is 186,000 miles per
second. Yoga may teach us about our Higher Self, but it can't supply
this kind of information about physics or astronomy.
Or can it?

Of course it can't.

[Smiler]

Post by Jahnu

It is good to see that his ignorance and gullibility won out in the end.
That occasionally happens to Danes who are not so Great.

It is amazing how much Western science has taught us. Today, for
example, kids in grammar school learn that the sun is 93 million miles
from the earth and that the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second.
Yoga may teach us about our Higher Self, but it can't supply this kind
of information about physics or astronomy.
Or can it? Professor Subhash Kak of Louisiana State University

Professor Kak...Bwahahahahaha.

[Jahnu]

Professor Kak...Bwahahahahaha. To a NY jew it sounds like
professor Cock

Why is Krsna called the reservoir of all pleasure?

Krishna is called the reservoir of all pleasure, because God is the
totality of all joy.

A question a thoughtful person might ask is, what is God made of? The
Vedic version teaches us that God is made of eternity, knowledge, and
bliss. Note how ingenious this definition of God is. As usual the
Vedic version reigns supreme.

Brahma, god of creation, says:

Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an
eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no
other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

=> Brahma-samhita, 5.1

It also makes perfect sense that eternity, knowledge and bliss is the
substance of God. We can test it on ourselves. As souls, ie. atomic
fragments of God, we consist of the same spiritual substance as God,
and this fact should be somehow measurable. It's like, by examining
one drop of the ocean one gets an understanding of the entire ocean.

The very fact that all living entities instinctively gravitate towards
these three factors, indicates that this is our natural state. All
living entities seek eternity, knowledge, and bliss. We all have the
distinct experience that these three are the prime moving factors of
our core existence.

We are all pleasure seeking. We all try to learn something. And we all
try to preserve our being. Some people say - I don't seek eternity. It
must become boring in eternity. But we all seek eternity in the sense
that we try to preserve our being. The survival instinct together with
the mating instinct are the strongest instincts in all living
entities.

Besides, boredom is a factor of material existence, As souls on the
spiritual plane we will never get bored playing with Krishna. Who
would not want to be eternally young and blissful? Does anyone want
his or her happiness to end, because it's just so boring being happy?
The only reason one would want his existence to end is if it's
miserable.

In reality we are happy all the time. Only in our delusion of bodily
existence is happiness constantly interrupted by suffering. Who wants
bliss to end? Who sits in a real happy frame of mind, and thinks -
gee, I wish this happiness would end... nobody does that. Thus it is a
direct observable fact that all living entities gravitate towards
eternity, knowledge and bliss, exactly as predicted in the Vedic
version.

By connecting with our real identities as souls we become re-situated
in God's substance of eternity, knowledge and bliss. By connecting
with our real selves we connect with eternity, knowledge and bliss.The
method to do so is to invoke the name of God and petition Him. This is
done in this age by chanting the Hare Krishna Mantra.

hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

"This mantra, consisting of 16 words and 32 syllables, is the only
means against evil in this age. After searching through all the Vedic
literature, one cannot find a method of religion more sublime for this
age than the chanting of Hare Krsna."

--- Kali-santarana Upanishad

Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Professor Kak...Bwahahahahaha. To a NY jew it sounds like
professor Cock

Why is Krsna called the reservoir of all pleasure?
Krishna is called the reservoir of all pleasure, because God is the
totality of all joy.

How can an imaginary being being the anything of joy?

[Smiler]

Post by Smiler
Professor Kak...Bwahahahahaha.

To a NY jew it sounds like professor Cock

To a NY, or anywhere else, Jew, kak is shit.

[Jahnu]

Post by Smiler
To a NY, or anywhere else, Jew, kak is shit.

I was trying to make fun of a Jewish NY accent. Like, Coorfee. You
know, the way Tony's wife speaks.

Anti-semitism, OTOH, is a serious matter.

A question a thoughtful person might ask is, what is God made of? The
Vedic version teaches us that God is made of eternity, knowledge, and
bliss. Note how ingenious this definition of God is. As usual the
Vedic version reigns supreme.

Brahma, god of creation, says:

Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an
eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no
other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

=> Brahma-samhita, 5.1

It also makes perfect sense that eternity, knowledge and bliss is the
substance of God. We can test it on ourselves. As souls, ie. atomic
fragments of God, we consist of the same spiritual substance as God,
and this fact should be somehow measurable. It's like, by examining
one drop of the ocean one gets an understanding of the entire ocean.
The very fact that all living entities instinctively gravitate towards
these three factors, indicates that this is our natural state. All
living entities seek eternity, knowledge, and bliss. We all have the
distinct experience that these three are the prime moving factors of
our core existence.

We are all pleasure seeking. We all try to learn something. And we all
try to preserve our being. Some people say - I don't seek eternity. It
must become boring in eternity. But we all seek eternity in the sense
that we try to preserve our being. The survival instinct together with
the mating instinct are the strongest instincts in all living
entities.

Besides, boredom is a factor of material existence, As souls on the
spiritual plane we will never get bored playing with Krishna. Who
would not want to be eternally young and blissful? Does anyone want
his or her happiness to end, because it's just so boring being happy?
The only reason one would want his existence to end is if it's
miserable.

In reality we are happy all the time. Only in our delusion of bodily
existence is happiness constantly interrupted by suffering. Who wants
bliss to end? Who sits in a real happy frame of mind, and thinks -
gee, I wish this happiness would end... nobody does that. Thus it is a
direct observable fact that all living entities gravitate towards
eternity, knowledge and bliss, exactly as predicted in the Vedic
version.


By connecting with our real identities as souls we become re-situated
in God's substance of eternity, knowledge and bliss. By connecting
with our real selves we connect with eternity, knowledge and bliss.The
method to do so is to invoke the name of God and petition Him. This is
done in this age by chanting the Hare Krishna Mantra.

hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

"This mantra, consisting of 16 words and 32 syllables, is the only
means against evil in this age. After searching through all the Vedic
literature, one cannot find a method of religion more sublime for this
age than the chanting of Hare Krsna."

--- Kali-santarana Upanishad
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Smiler]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
To a NY, or anywhere else, Jew, kak is shit.

I was trying to make fun of a Jewish NY accent.

And failed.

Post by Jahnu
Like, Coorfee. You know, the way Tony's wife speaks.

Who he?

Post by Jahnu
Anti-semitism, OTOH, is a serious matter.

Indeed anti-semitism[sic] is.

Post by Jahnu
A question a thoughtful person might ask is, what is God made of?

Nope. That's a question a thoughtless person might ask. One who believes
in unevidenced supposed super-beings, like you do.

<snip Krishna krap>

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
To a NY, or anywhere else, Jew, kak is shit.

I was trying to make fun of a Jewish NY accent.

And failed.

Post by Jahnu
Like, Coorfee. You know, the way Tony's wife speaks.

Uh oh. Jesper's in trouble now. You don't call a New Jerseyite a New Yorker.

[Ted]

Post by Jeanne Douglas

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
To a NY, or anywhere else, Jew, kak is shit.

I was trying to make fun of a Jewish NY accent.

And failed.

Post by Jahnu
Like, Coorfee. You know, the way Tony's wife speaks.

Uh oh. Jesper's in trouble now. You don't call a New Jerseyite a New Yorker.

You're originally from NJ, right?

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Ted

Post by Jeanne Douglas

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
To a NY, or anywhere else, Jew, kak is shit.

I was trying to make fun of a Jewish NY accent.

And failed.

Post by Jahnu
Like, Coorfee. You know, the way Tony's wife speaks.

Uh oh. Jesper's in trouble now. You don't call a New Jerseyite a New Yorker.

You're originally from NJ, right?

I was raised there from 1st grade through 12th. I was born on Manhattan and lived in Jamaica, Queens, until we moved to New Jersey.

[Jahnu]

Post by Smiler
Nope. That's a question a thoughtless person might ask. One who believes
in unevidenced supposed super-beings, like you do.

Seriously, imagine what an unevolved piece of shit you must be to feed
your kids corpses :D

I mean, do you now understand how your already shit for braiins has
been further damaged by atheism? You are actually no better than
animal.

If there was proof of a God, would belief and faith still be
necessary?

Faith is the first step in any endeavor. One requires faith to even
investigate the various proofs of God.

Some peoples' consciousness are not evolved enough to comprehend a
Supremely Intelligent Designer. They just can 't grasp such a vast
intelligence as God's. Atheists like to believe no one is above man,
so they don't like the idea of a being, far more intelligent than
them.

The Vedas mention evolution of consciousness.
The consciousness of the soul evolves through a progression of species
of life.

This evolution of consciousness progresses gradually from fish,
plants, insects, reptiles, birds, animals and then to humans.
There are 900,000 species of aquatic life; 2,000,000 species of plants
and trees; 1,100,000 species of insects; 1,000,000 species of bird
life; 3,000,000 species of beasts, and 400,000 species of human life.
-Padma Purana

One attains the human form of life after transmigrating through
8,400,000 species by the process of gradual evolution. That human life
is spoiled for those conceited fools who do not take shelter of the
lotus feet of Govinda. --Brahma-vaivarta Purana

And then, finally, after having attained the humana form of life, the
soul is given the opportunity of the consciousness to evolve from
Sraddha to Prema, meaning an evolution from faith in God to love of
God. Obviously, to love God, one needs to know Him first.
In the science of bhakti, or devotion to God, the consciousness
evolves through 9 stages:

1. sraddha - faith
2. sadhu-sanga - association with saintly people
3. bhajana kriya - following and practicing devotional principles
4. anartha nivritti - purifying the mind from material contamination
5. nistha - becoming steady in one's practice, sadhana
6. ruchi - taste for Krishna
7. asakti - attachment to Krishna
8. bhava - the dawning of pure love of God
9. prema - pure, unalloyed love for Krishna

Visvanath Chakravarti Thakur explains that the 4th step, purifying
material contamination from the heart, is the hardest stage to go
through; he describes anartha nivritti as an ocean of contamination
accumulated over countless of life-times, and it can take many lives
to traverse that great ocean.

That's why Rupa Goswami says - utsahan nischayad dhairyat -
enthusiasm, perseverance and determination are necessary ingredients
to advance in sadhana.

One has to be patient and enthusiastic to continue on the path of
bhakti even when the process of becoming purified in most cases is
very graduate.

The result of becoming free from suffering and developing some little
taste for devotional service is immediate, but to attain to the final
goal, prema, can take many life-times… except Srila Prabhupada said it
can be done in this one life-time, by his mercy. If we surrender to
Srila Prabhupada we can make this our last life.

Krishn says:

O best among the Bharatas, four kinds of pious men begin to render
devotional service unto Me - the distressed, the desirer of wealth,
the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the
Absolute. (Bg 7.16)

Of these, the one who is in full knowledge and who is always engaged
in pure devotional service is the best. For I am very dear to him, and
he is dear to Me. (Bg 7.17)

All these devotees are undoubtedly magnanimous souls, but he who is
situated in knowledge of Me I consider to be just like My own self.
Being engaged in My transcendental service, he is sure to attain Me,
the highest and most perfect goal. (Bg 7.18)

After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge
surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all
that is. Such a great soul is very rare. (Bg 7.19)



Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Nope. That's a question a thoughtless person might ask. One who believes
in unevidenced supposed super-beings, like you do.

Seriously, imagine what an unevolved piece of shit you must be to feed
your kids corpses :D

Everything every person eats is a corpse. Or contains corpses. Millions of them. Billions of them. Trillions of them.

Why don't you respect the right to life of plants and microscopic beings?

[Jahnu]

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Why don't you respect the right to life of plants and microscopic beings?

hahaha :)

Listen to Blondie. She thinks it's as violent behavior to breathe in a
microbe or plug a tomato, as it is to slit the throat of a cow or a
pig.

I mean, seriously talk about a a dumb blonde :)

Listen, this is Blondie as a kid -

--no, no daddy, don't cut that apple, it's going to suffer.

hahaha :)

Ok, Blondie, here is how it is -

In normal legal practice, in fact, you can be indicted in a court of
law for mistreatig your dog, what to speak of murdering people. There
are clear laws against that. Ever heard of a person being convicted of
mistreating his potted plants?

eh, Blondie? :D

--but, but you also kill vegetables, what about them? huh? huh?

As long as there are slaughter-houses, there will be battlefields. A
vegetarian diet is the acid test of humanitarian.

-- Leo Tolstoy


Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Why don't you respect the right to life of plants and microscopic beings?

hahaha :)
Listen to Blondie. She thinks it's as violent behavior to breathe in a
microbe or plug a tomato, as it is to slit the throat of a cow or a
pig.

And you spit on plants and microbes that you murder every time you take a bite.

[Smiler]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Nope. That's a question a thoughtless person might ask. One who believes
in unevidenced supposed super-beings, like you do.

Seriously, imagine what an unevolved piece of shit you must be to feed
your kids corpses :D

You don't feed children anything? They'd starve.

Post by Jahnu
I mean, do you now understand how your already shit for braiins has been
further damaged by atheism? You are actually no better than animal.

We are all animals, human animals.

Post by Jahnu
If there was proof of a God, would belief and faith still be necessary?

Thanks for admitting that you believe without evidence.
How stupid is that?

Post by Jahnu
Faith is the first step in any endeavor. One requires faith to even
investigate the various proofs of God.

Why would I investigate something I don't believe in?
Have you investigated leprechauns? If not, why not?
And you have stated above that there's no proof of your supposed god.

Post by Jahnu
Some peoples' consciousness are not evolved enough to comprehend a
Supremely Intelligent Designer.

Some people are stupid enough to believe in that unevidenced crap.

Post by Jahnu
They just can 't grasp such a vast intelligence as God's.

That would be the god for which you can show no evidence.

Post by Jahnu
Atheists like to believe no one is above man, so
they don't like the idea of a being, far more intelligent than them.

Ideas are fine, if they're based on evidence, but you have no evidence for
your supposed super-intelligent being.

Post by Jahnu
The Vedas

<snip Krishna krap>

[Jahnu]

Post by Smiler
Why would I investigate something I don't believe in?
Have you investigated leprechauns? If not, why not?
And you have stated above that there's no proof of your supposed god.

Atheism is the belief that there are no gods. In other words, it is a
belief that cannot be verified. It is impossible to prove there is no
God. By definition, you cannot prove a negative. So atheism is a
totally blind belief, that cannot be verified.

On the other hand, a theist, at least theoretically, has the
possibility to have his faith in God verified. God, if He exists, can
certainly prove His own existence beyond doubt. So theists are
intellectually better situated than atheists because they believe in
something that has the possibility of verification.

t actually makes more sense to be a theist than atheist.

Now, some atheist might ask, if God can verify Himself, why doesn't He
do so to me? And here is the answer that God gives in the Bhagavad
Gita.

Krishna says:

I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I
am unborn and infallible. (Bg. 7.25)

Somebody might think - this is unfair of God. But when you think about
it, it is actually not. It is rather benevolent of God. Atheism is
actually not a matter of evidence of this and proof of that. For
someone who has the eyes to see, this whole world is proof of an
intelligent, Supreme Designer. Obviously, nobody is an atheist out of
a lack of proof of God.

To be an atheist or a theist is simply a matter of choice. Atheism is
a choice you make when you don't want God in your life. It's as simple
as that. Most religions have no real good explanation for why somebody
would not want God in his life, but the Vedic version predicts this.
God is the Supreme Enjoyer, and the soul is meant for His enjoyment.
But if the soul wants to imitate God and become an independent
enjoyer, Krishna then gives the material world as the soul's field of
activity.

So all of us, whether we call ourselves Christians, atheists,
Buddhists, Muslims, liberals, democrats or whatever, are fallen souls,
who have fallen down into the material world to become enjoyers and
controllers. If we actually knew the truth - that Krishna is the only
enjoyer and controller - we wouldn't be able to live out the illusion
of being independent enjoyers and controllers. So Krishna mercifully
keeps the fallen souls in ignorance. It is out of respect for the
deluded soul's wishes, that Krishna stays away from Him. When an
atheist has a very strong conviction that there is no God, it is
Krishna Who sits in his heart and makes that conviction strong.

Krishna says:

Now hear, O son of Pritha, how by practicing yoga in full
consciousness of Me, with mind attached to Me, you can know Me in
full, free from doubt. (Bg. 7.1)

I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance,
knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known.
Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedanta, and I am the knower of the
Vedas. (Bg. 15.15)

So the only way a fallen soul will again see God, is by asking Him for
it. As long as the basic desire is there - to not have anything to do
with God, Krishna will stay far away from such a soul, and He will
offer oceans of good reasons to not believe in Him. So when atheists
ask for evidence and proof of God, it is merely obfuscation. There is
nothing that a die-hard atheist wants less than proof of God.

Anyone who wants to know God beyond doubt will certainly do whatever
is necessary to accomplish that. And the first thing one must do to
see God is give up one's atheistic mentality and develop a genuine
desire to see God. If you wish to see God, you'll follow the method of
how to access Him.

Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Why would I investigate something I don't believe in?
Have you investigated leprechauns? If not, why not?
And you have stated above that there's no proof of your supposed god.

Atheism is the belief that there are no gods.

No it's not. And you know this, so you're just a filthy liar.

Sad!

[Smiler]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Why would I investigate something I don't believe in?
Have you investigated leprechauns? If not, why not?
And you have stated above that there's no proof of your supposed god.

Atheism is the belief that there are no gods.

Nope, it's a lack of belief _in_ gods.
Whether they exist or not is immaterial.
Some claimed gods can be proven to exist.

Post by Jahnu
In other words, it is a belief that cannot be verified.

Nope. I have no such belief, liar.

Post by Jahnu
It is impossible to prove there is no God.

Just as it's impossible to prove that there are no leprechauns.

Post by Jahnu
By definition, you cannot prove a negative.

I can prove I don't have three legs simply by providing a photograph.

Post by Jahnu
So atheism is a totally blind belief, that cannot be verified.

Atheism is a LACK of belief, exactly as is your lack of belief in
leprechauns.

Post by Jahnu
On the other hand, a theist, at least theoretically, has the possibility
to have his faith in God verified. God, if He exists, can certainly
prove His own existence beyond doubt.

Why has he failed to do that for several millennia?

Post by Jahnu
So theists are intellectually
better situated than atheists because they believe in something that has
the possibility of verification.

But still has none.

Post by Jahnu
t actually makes more sense to be a theist than atheist.

Believing in the unevidenced is more sensible than doubting it?
In what world is that true?

Post by Jahnu
Now, some atheist might ask, if God can verify Himself, why doesn't He
do so to me? And here is the answer that God gives in the Bhagavad Gita.

Your evidence that your god gave an answer is what?
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.
<snip Krishna krap>

[Jahnu]

Post by Smiler
Nope. I have no such belief, liar.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything."   --  GK Chesterton
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Smiler]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Nope. I have no such belief, liar.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything."   --  GK Chesterton

His opinion matters, why?

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Nope. I have no such belief, liar.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything." Â -- Â GK Chesterton

His opinion matters, why?

It doesn't even make sense.

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 10:08:19 -0600, "Jeanne Douglas"

Post by Jeanne Douglas

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Nope. I have no such belief, liar.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything." Â -- Â GK Chesterton

His opinion matters, why?

It doesn't even make sense.

The loonies rely on the argument from authority of somebody they thing
we should believe.

[Jahnu]

Post by Smiler
His opinion matters, why?

I'll tell you when you tell me why YOUR opinion matters :)

hehe, what a clown.

--but, but no opinion except MY opinion counts. Why should I care
about other peoples' opinions, even though these people are so much
more intelligent and succesful in life than I am?

Here is what science has to say about your idiotic idea that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals.


"The probability that life arose by a coincidence can be likened to
the probability that a voluminous encyclopedia be the result of an
explosion in a print shop." - Biologist Edwin Conklin

"From my earliest training as a scientist I was very strongly
brainwashed to believe that science cannot be consistent with any kind
of deliberate creation. That notion has had to be painfully shed. I am
quite uncomfortable in this situation, the state of mind I now find
myself in. But there is no logical way out of it. I now find myself
driven to this position by logic. There is no other way in which we
can understand the precise ordering of the chemicals of life except to
invoke the creations on a cosmic scale. . . We were hoping as
scientists that there would be a way round our conclusion, but there
isn’t."

--Sir Frederick Hoyle and Chandra Wickramsinghe, There Must Be A God,
Daily Express, Aug. 14, 1981. & Hoyle On Evolution. Nature, Nov. 12,
1981, 105
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
His opinion matters, why?

I'll tell you when you tell me why YOUR opinion matters :)
hehe, what a clown.
--but, but no opinion except MY opinion counts. Why should I care
about other peoples' opinions, even though these people are so much
more intelligent and succesful in life than I am?
Here is what science has to say about your idiotic idea that the world
created itself out of a bunch of chemicals.

Who says that? I've never heard a single person say anything that stupid.

[Jahnu]

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Who says that? I've never heard a single person say anything that stupid.

hahaha :) Listen to Blondie. doesn't even know her own beliefs.

Of course, you won't publically admit to something so stupid. Do you
get now, Blondie, how atheiism has damaged your already fragile minid?

You can't admit to your own beliefs for they are too stupid, when you
actually say them ouot loud.


----but, but, but there is no magic involved in creating life. It's
all a natural process. If you ask me what exactly is that natural
process, I have no idea, I just call it a natural process to make it
sound like it's science, to fool creationists into thinking, that I
know what I'm talking about.

These poor religious fanatics, they need some magical, invisible pixie
sitting in the sky, to explain nature, but me? Forget it, I don't need
magic to explain nature, because it's all a naturall process.

You see, first there was a point... I call the point a singularity to
make it sound less ridiculous, I fabulate it's a point of all mass,
space, and time, so no need to worry about what was outside the point,
because there was nothing outside the point - no space, no time, no
mass, no condencity, no nothing, you understand? There was only the
point, and from that point a universe came out, just like that, for no
apparent reason, it just happened, see? No magic involved... it's all
a natural process, and as we all know natural processes are very
scientic.

I won't get into what happened with the natural processes after the
universe popped into existence - how life evolved out of chemicals and
then transmuted from an amoeba into a talking human being. Don't worry
yourself about all these annoying details, all you have to understand
is that it's completely natural and scientific.... and that it
happened over long, long time. That's all you have to know.

Also, don't worry yourself that noone with a brain actually believes
the world created itself out of a bunch of chemicals, don't worry that
the most prominent and brainy scientists on the planet support the
idea of ID - Intelligent Design, simply because it makes more sense.

That's totally inconsequential. All you have to know, is that it's all
completely natural. It doesn't matter you have no clue what it means
or entails. You simply have to repeat it like a mantra, just try it -
natural process, natural process, natural natural process process, no
magic, no magic, magic magic no no... see how good it makes you feel?

"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a
superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry
and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about
in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so
overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." - Fred
Hoyle, astrophysicist



Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Who says that? I've never heard a single person say anything that stupid.

hahaha :) Listen to Blondie. doesn't even know her own beliefs.

If I don't know my own beliefs, who does?

Post by Jahnu
You can't admit to your own beliefs for they are too stupid, when you
actually say them ouot loud.

What are these alleged beliefs you claim I have?

Post by Jahnu
----but, but, but there is no magic involved in creating life. It's
all a natural process. If you ask me what exactly is that natural
process, I have no idea, I just call it a natural process to make it
sound like it's science, to fool creationists into thinking, that I
know what I'm talking about.

What a lame-ass strawman. Not one thing in it is true.

Post by Jahnu
These poor religious fanatics, they need some magical, invisible pixie
sitting in the sky, to explain nature, but me? Forget it, I don't need
magic to explain nature, because it's all a naturall process.

Exactly. If you know this, why are you acting like a fool.

Does anyone else see the quote-mine possibility here? I've saved it and you'll see it. For any of our quote-miners.

Post by Jahnu
You see, first there was a point... I call the point a singularity to
make it sound less ridiculous, I fabulate it's a point of all mass,
space, and time, so no need to worry about what was outside the point,
because there was nothing outside the point - no space, no time, no
mass, no condencity, no nothing, you understand? There was only the
point, and from that point a universe came out, just like that, for no
apparent reason, it just happened, see? No magic involved... it's all
a natural process, and as we all know natural processes are very
scientic.

See. You do know this. Why do you pretend you don't?

Post by Jahnu
I won't get into what happened with the natural processes after the
universe popped into existence - how life evolved out of chemicals and
then transmuted from an amoeba into a talking human being. Don't worry
yourself about all these annoying details, all you have to understand
is that it's completely natural and scientific.... and that it
happened over long, long time. That's all you have to know.

We know a whole helluva lot about how it happened. So there's a lie from you.

Post by Jahnu
Also, don't worry yourself that noone with a brain actually believes
the world created itself out of a bunch of chemicals,

NOBODY believes that the "world created itself". No creation needed.

Post by Jahnu
don't worry that
the most prominent and brainy scientists on the planet support the
idea of ID - Intelligent Design, simply because it makes more sense.

That's a blatant lie. And you know it's a lie so why did you tell it anyway?

Post by Jahnu
That's totally inconsequential. All you have to know, is that it's all
completely natural. It doesn't matter you have no clue what it means
or entails. You simply have to repeat it like a mantra, just try it -
natural process, natural process, natural natural process process, no
magic, no magic, magic magic no no... see how good it makes you feel?

Yep. Reality always makes me feel good.

Post by Jahnu
"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a
superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry
and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about
in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so
overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." - Fred
Hoyle, astrophysicist

Fred Hoyle was a great astronomer, but outside his field he was a lunatic crank. But we all know that was yet another highly dishonest quote mine. Including you.

[Jahnu]

Post by Jeanne Douglas
What are these alleged beliefs you claim I have?

Nothing alleged abou it, Blondie. You believe in abiogenesis. You
believe in evolution. You believe in Big Bang. You believe you are
your body and its culture. You believe you are the central enjoyer in
creation. In fact, I could write books about the stuff youo believe
in.


"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything."   --  GK Chesterton
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Jeanne Douglas
What are these alleged beliefs you claim I have?

Nothing alleged abou it, Blondie. You believe in abiogenesis.

Unless you think life ALWAYS existed, then so do you. Even if a god started life, that would still be abiogenesis--one moment there was no life and the next there was. So no belief needed.

Post by Jahnu
You
believe in evolution.

No belief needed because of the huge masses of evidence.

Post by Jahnu
You believe in Big Bang.

No belief necessary because of the huge masses of evidence.

Post by Jahnu
You believe you are
your body and its culture.

What the fuck does that mean?

Post by Jahnu
You believe you are the central enjoyer in
creation.

Nope. I'm not a narcissist.

Post by Jahnu
In fact, I could write books about the stuff youo believe
in.

When are you going to list even one of them?

[Smiler]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Jeanne Douglas
What are these alleged beliefs you claim I have?

Nothing alleged abou it, Blondie. You believe in abiogenesis.

With evidence.

Post by Jahnu
You believe in evolution.

Proven.

Post by Jahnu
You believe in Big Bang.

Proven.

Post by Jahnu
You believe you are your body and its culture.

What else can we be?
Be sure to include evidence in your reply.
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

Post by Jahnu
You believe you are the central enjoyer in creation.

What creation?

Post by Jahnu
In fact, I could write books about the stuff youo believe in.

Go ahead. That would, at least, keep you out of a.a. for a while.

Post by Jahnu
"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything."   --  GK Chesterton

Merely one man's opinion.
"Opinions are like arseholes. Everybody has one. Most of them stink."

[Christopher A. Lee]

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu

Post by Jeanne Douglas
What are these alleged beliefs you claim I have?

Nothing alleged abou it, Blondie. You believe in abiogenesis.

What a fucking moron.

Post by Smiler
With evidence.

It's not a belief. ,It is tautologically a fact.

The proven serially lying religious loonie knows perfectly well that
at one point in time there was no life, and that at a later time there
was.

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
You believe in evolution.

Proven.

Again, not a belief but an observed fact.

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
You believe in Big Bang.

Proven.

Again, not a belief but a well established scientific fact.

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
You believe you are your body and its culture.

What else can we be?
Be sure to include evidence in your reply.
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

The in-your-face retarded moron cannot.

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
You believe you are the central enjoyer in creation.

What a fucking moron.

Post by Smiler
What creation?

Post by Jahnu
In fact, I could write books about the stuff youo believe in.

Go ahead. That would, at least, keep you out of a.a. for a while.

Post by Jahnu
"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything."   --  GK Chesterton

Merely one man's opinion.

And he was lying.

Post by Smiler
"Opinions are like arseholes. Everybody has one. Most of them stink."

Don't let him use the word "believe" unless it is merely belief. There
are far better words and phrases which convey the actual meaning.

[Jahnu]

Post by Christopher A. Lee
It's not a belief. ,It is tautologically a fact.

Fact? hahaha :) You wouldn't know a fact if it fell on your tiny
pointy head.

Post by Christopher A. Lee
The proven serially lying religious loonie knows perfectly well that
at one point in time there was no life, and that at a later time there
was.

Listenn to the fool -

--but, but, Ah seen it on TV

Here is what science has to say about your fantasies about the world.

"The probability that life arose by a coincidence can be likened to
the probability that a voluminous encyclopedia be the result of an
explosion in a print shop." - Biologist Edwin Conklin

"From my earliest training as a scientist I was very strongly
brainwashed to believe that science cannot be consistent with any kind
of deliberate creation. That notion has had to be painfully shed. I am
quite uncomfortable in this situation, the state of mind I now find
myself in. But there is no logical way out of it. I now find myself
driven to this position by logic. There is no other way in which we
can understand the precise ordering of the chemicals of life except to
invoke the creations on a cosmic scale. . . We were hoping as
scientists that there would be a way round our conclusion, but there
isn’t."

--Sir Frederick Hoyle and Chandra Wickramsinghe, There Must Be A God,
Daily Express, Aug. 14, 1981. & Hoyle On Evolution. Nature, Nov. 12,
1981, 105

The hypothesis that life evolved from inorganic matter is still to
this day a matter of belief. - Matematician J. W. N. Sullivan

"A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a
superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry
and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about
in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so
overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." - Fred
Hoyle, astrophysicist
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jahnu]

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
Nothing alleged abou it, Blondie. You believe in abiogenesis.

With evidence.

The hypothesis that life evolved from inorganic matter is still to
this day a matter of belief. - Matematician J. W. N. Sullivan

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
You believe in evolution.

Proven.

hahaha :) Listen to this indoctrinated fool.

--but, but it's prooven. Ah seen it on TV.

Get an education, clown.

--but, but Ah seen it on TV.

"Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are
great con-men, And the story they are telling may be the GREATEST HOAX
EVER." -- Dr.T.N.Tahmisian, Atomic Energy Commission

"We must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian
accounts of the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only
a variety of wishful speculations." -- Franklin Harold, Emeritus
Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology at Colorado State
University, in an Oxford University Press text.
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jahnu]

"Krsna Consciousness is not a faith, such as the Hindu or Christian
faith, but it is a science. When Krsna says Dehino smi yatha dehe…,
the principle is that the soul is different from the body. On account
of the presence of the soul we are getting different bodies. You
cannot say it is Hindu. The Hindu religion may be more advanced, but
Krsna Consciousness is a science. Others have only a vague idea. Krsna
never said He was preaching as a Hindu or for the Hindus.
But as a public statement you may say we are part of the Hindu dharma.
It is actually Vedic culture, but they have been misinformed. We are
actually Varnasrama dharma. The public doesn't understand Varnasram so
sometimes we say "Hindu dharma. "It is a great science but
unfortunately the name has come since the Mohammedans called the
Indians Hindu because of the Indus River. The word is coming down like
that, but we do not find the word Hindu in any scripture."

--Srila Prabhupada letter to Pranaba, Feb. 1, 1977
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jahnu]

Oooh look! Nothing left in my brain, again.
Not only am I a loser with absolutely nothing of
value to contribute to the world, in fact, according
to my own retard world-view, I'm no more important
to the planet than a cockroach - but I like to show everyone
on usenet how useless and unimportant I am.
I just have to keep repeating myself like a complete
idiot, because, as I said, I have nothing of value to
say. All I can do is bitch and moan on usenet like a fool.
I guess, now that this other useless guy, Birdbrain,
has left us, I have to take up his mantle by keeping up
bitching and >moaning where he left off.

The sages say:

O learned one, in this iron age of Kali men have but short lives. They
are quarrelsome, lazy, misguided, unlucky and, above all, always
disturbed.

-- Srimad Bhagavatam, 1.1.10
Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jahnu]

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
Nothing alleged abou it, Blondie. You believe in abiogenesis.

With evidence.

hahaha :) Evidence that matter generates life? What evidence might
that be, fool?

Now watch the Smiler thing scrample to post a link to alt.origin or
some other place where atheists gather to confirm their idiotic
beliefs.

The hypothesis that life evolved from inorganic matter is still to
this day a matter of belief. - Matematician J. W. N. Sullivan

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
You believe in evolution.

Proven.

What proof might that be? :)

"We must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian
accounts of the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only
a variety of wishful speculations." -- Franklin Harold, Emeritus
Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology at Colorado State
University, in an Oxford University Press text.

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
You believe in Big Bang.

Proven.

hahaha :) It doesn't take much to convince you of anything, eh?

--but, but Ah seen it on TV.

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
You believe you are your body and its culture.

What else can we be?
Be sure to include evidence in your reply.
Beliefs, opinions and 'holy' books are NOT evidence.

How about some logic and reason? I know they are foreign concepts to
you, but you might want to try it sometime.

Youo see, anyone, regardless of his beliefs and convictions, can
experience that he or she is a constant observer of existence.

Krishna says:

As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood
to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at
death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change. (Bg. 2.13)

What Krishna is saying here, is that the body changes constantly from
childhood, to youth, to old age. But the self or the ‘I’ within,
remains constant. One's mind and intelligence change, sure. We are are
supposed to grow wiser with age.

One's thoughts, feelings, willpower, and convictions change as time
progresses.

But it is the same observer within, who experiences these changes.
The I-feeling remains the same.

So the person stays the same despite the alterations in matter.

That is the eternal soul. It is the same self who sits in a child's
body as the one sitting in the old man's body. The self doesn't
change. The thoughts and feelings and intelligence change, but it is
the same self observing these. The I-feeling remains the same.

In this way anyone can experience his or her own eternity.

It's a question of absorption - either one is absorbed in matter,
which is in a constant flux.

That means, one is identifying with his thoughts, feelings and likes
and dislikes. Or one is absorbed in one's eternal self. That means,
one is identifying with observing one's thoughts and feelings. The
absorption is in one's own consciousness.

The soul or the self is called marginal, which means it will be
controlled either by spirit or matter. The choice one has is whether
to be controlled by matter, controlled by the false ego, or whether
one wants to be controlled by God.

When one's choice is motivated by the desire to become free from the
false ego, free from bodily identification, then one begins a
spiritual journey back home, back to Godhead.

"There are 900,000 species of aquatic life; 2,000,000 species of
plants and trees; 1,100,000 species of insects; 1,000,000 species of
bird life; 3,000,000 species of beasts, and 400,000 species of human
life." (Padma Purana)

One attains the human form of life after transmigrating through
8,400,000 species by the process of gradual evolution. That human life
is spoiled for those conceited fools who do not take shelter of the
lotus feet of Govinda.


--Brahma-vaivarta Purana

Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

https://photos.google.com/u/1/?hl=en

[Jahnu]

Post by Jahnu
Now watch the Smiler thing scrample to post a link to alt.origin or
some other place where atheists gather to confirm their idiotic
beliefs.
The hypothesis that life evolved from inorganic matter is still to
this day a matter of belief. - Matematician J. W. N. Sullivan

Post by Smiler

Post by Jahnu
You believe in evolution.

Proven.

What proof might that be? :)
"We must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian
accounts of the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only
a variety of wishful speculations." -- Franklin Harold, Emeritus
Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology at Colorado State
University, in an Oxford University Press text.

Why is it hard for me to believe that the absolute truth (God) has a
personality?

It should not be so hard to believe that God is a person.
You and me and everyone else in the world are persons, so how could we
be persons unless God is also a person?

The definition of God is that He is - janmady asya yatah - the source
from which everything emanates - so naturally, personality proceeds
from Him.

Krishna says:

Because I am transcendental, beyond both the fallible and the
infallible, and because I am the greatest, I am celebrated both in the
world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person. (Bg 15.18)

Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without
doubting, is the knower of everything. He therefore engages himself in
full devotional service to Me, O son of Bharata. (Bg 15.19)

This is the most confidential part of the Vedic scriptures, O sinless
one, and it is disclosed now by Me. Whoever understands this will
become wise, and his endeavors will know perfection. - Bg 15.20
A question a thoughtful person might ask is, what is God made of? The
Vedic version teaches us that God is made of eternity, knowledge, and
bliss.

Brahma, god of creation, says:

Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an
eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no
other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.

=> Brahma-samhita, 5.1

It also makes perfect sense that eternity, knowledge and bliss is the
substance of God. We can test it on ourselves. As souls, ie. atomic
fragments of God, we consist of the same spiritual substance as God,
and this fact should be somehow measurable.

It's like, by examining one drop of the ocean one gets an
understanding of the entire ocean. The very fact that all living
entities instinctively gravitate towards these three factors,
indicates that this is our natural state. All living entities seek
eternity, knowledge, and bliss. We all have the distinct experience
that these three are the prime moving factors of our core existence.
We are all pleasure seeking.

We all try to learn something. And we all try to preserve our being.
Some people say - I don't seek eternity. It must become boring in
eternity. But we all seek eternity in the sense that we try to
preserve our being. The survival instinct together with the mating
instinct are the strongest instincts in all living entities.

Besides, boredom is a factor of material existence, As souls on the
spiritual plane we will never get bored playing with Krishna. Who
would not want to be eternally young and blissful? Does anyone want
his or her happiness to end, because it's just so boring being happy?
The only reason one would want his existence to end is if it's
miserable.

In reality we are happy all the time. Who wants bliss to end? Who sits
in a real happy frame of mind, and thinks - gee, I wish this happiness
would end... nobody does that. Thus it is a direct observable fact
that all living entities gravitate towards eternity, knowledge and
bliss, exactly as predicted in the Vedic version.

By connecting with our real identities as souls we become re-situated
in God's substance of eternity, knowledge and bliss. By connecting
with our real selves we connect with eternity, knowledge and bliss.The
method to do so is to invoke the name of God and petition Him. This is
done in this age by chanting the Hare Krishna Mantra.

hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare
hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

"This mantra, consisting of 16 words and 32 syllables, is the only
means against evil in this age. After searching through all the Vedic
literature, one cannot find a method of religion more sublime for this
age than the chanting of Hare Krsna."

--- Kali-santarana Upanishad


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[Jahnu]

It's always vital to know why. It's vital to know why because when the
why of things are known their purpose becomes known.

It's like a washing machine, one may know how it works, but without
knowing why it was made, the purpose of it remains unknown. One may
use it to wash bricks, and it will ruin the machine.

That's why, the purpose is important to know for the right use and
application of things. The purpose is understood by knowing the why.
Modern science, in later years, has advanced human understanding
explosively in how nature works, but the understanding of why nature
works has kept people from understanding the purpose of nature. The
purpose of nature is to reward the soul for piety and punish it for
impiety.

The ultimate purpose of nature is to be a correctional facility for
the rebellious souls who have turned away from God.

The real purpose of the material world is to make the soul understand
that it doesn't belong here.

As one becomes older in this life one can realize that without
exception everything turns into misery, sorrow and frustration. Even
if you are enjoying to the max, disease, old age and death always get
you in the end.

This would be a depressing realization if there were no positive
alternative. But there is. When Krishna is added to one's life
together with the practice of devotion to Him, all this other stuff -
family, friends, society, all your loved ones become as significant as
the autumn leaves rattling in the wind, for the security and bliss one
discovers in Krishna's service makes everything else pale in
comparison.

-- but, but, that's being defeatist and irresponsible, I hear someone
object.

On the contrary, it is defeatist and irresponsible to surrender to
disease, old age and death. To explain it away by saying, there is
nothing you can do about it anyway, when God Himself tells you, you
can get out of the ocean of birth and death - now THAT's defeatist and
irresponsible.

It is defeatist because one surrenders to nature's powers, and it is
irresponsible, because the sole prerogative of the human life-form is
for the soul to get out of samsara - the endless cycle of birth and
death. To not take advantage of that rare opportunity is
irresponsible.

--but, but who will take care of the family, if everyone just goes
off, dresses in sheets and chants mantras?

Family? First of all, one doesn't exclude the other. To practice
devotion to Krishna does not mean you can't take care of your family.
Rather, one can take better care, it's just not the ultimate goal in
life anymore.

And secondly, everyone in the material world takes care of their
family. Ants, cockroaches, cats and dogs and cows take care of their
families. Family is being taken care of in any life-form. In the
modern culture, it is being hailed as some noble, unassailable, holy
principle - the ultimate goal in life one must stick to, no matter
what. Family is God.

The fact is, though, that if humans are just another lifeform happened
to pop out of the evolutionary cycle, there is nothing more noble or
exquisite about a mother strolling her infant down 5th Avenue in a
pushchair, than an ant carrying an egg home to its nest.

Therefore Krishna says:

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire
from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized
souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.
(Bg. 4.34)

Having obtained real knowledge from a self-realized soul, you will
never fall again into such illusion, for by this knowledge you will
see that all living beings are but part of the Supreme, or, in other
words, that they are Mine. (Bg.4.35)

Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners, when
you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge you will be
able to cross over the ocean of miseries. (Bg. 4.36)

As a blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire
of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities. (Bg.
4.37)

In this world, there is nothing so sublime and pure as transcendental
knowledge. Such knowledge is the mature fruit of all mysticism. And
one who has become accomplished in the practice of devotional service
enjoys this knowledge within himself in due course of time. (Bg. 4.38)

A faithful man who is dedicated to transcendental knowledge and who
subdues his senses is eligible to achieve such knowledge, and having
achieved it he quickly attains the supreme spiritual peace. (Bg. 4.39)

But ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed scriptures
do not attain God consciousness; they fall down. For the doubting soul
there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next. (Bg. 4.40)

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[Jahnu]

Seriously, your greedy guru does.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, Redneck Joe.

--but, but Ah seen it on TV

So after TV and a good stew of pig-intestines cooked up by Momma
Redneck, Ritson and his redneck friend go for a walk down the street
and see a dog licking its own balls.

Ritson yells in a shrill, girly voice - Oh boy, Ah wish Ah could do
that.

Other redneck goes - maybe you should pet him first.


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[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Nope. I have no such belief, liar.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything." -- GK Chesterton

Can you provide a citation for that quote so we can see the whole thing in its entire context? Thank you.

[Kevrob]

Post by Jeanne Douglas

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Nope. I have no such belief, liar.

"When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing --
they believe in anything." -- GK Chesterton

Can you provide a citation for that quote so we can see the whole thing in its entire context? Thank you.

The specific quote is of confused provenance, as these
Chesterton devotees spell out.

https://www.chesterton.org/ceases-to-worship/

Kevin R

[Kevrob]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
Nope. That's a question a thoughtless person might ask. One who believes
in unevidenced supposed super-beings, like you do.

Seriously, imagine what an unevolved piece of shit you must be to feed
your kids corpses :D
I mean, do you now understand how your already shit for braiins has
been further damaged by atheism? You are actually no better than
animal.

So, you can't offer a rational rebuttal, so you respond with:
emotional language - "corpse" for animal flesh - which has its
roots in "corpus" - Latin for "body"; then insult, which isn't
very "enlightened" of you; and finally a reversion to off-charter
proselytizing.

What a troll you are! Go bang your tangerine where people
can't hear you.

Kevin R

[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu

Post by Smiler
To a NY, or anywhere else, Jew, kak is shit.

I was trying to make fun of a Jewish NY accent. Like, Coorfee. You
know, the way Tony's wife speaks.
Anti-semitism, OTOH, is a serious matter.
A question a thoughtful person might ask is, what is God made of?

Fictional characters aren't made of anything.

[Jahnu]

On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 21:47:52 -0500, "Jeanne Douglas"

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Fictional characters aren't made of anything.

hahaha :) You actually sound like a dumb blonde.

Who ever said they were?

Are believers meant to judge other believers and are believers meant
to judge non-believers?

Every single person on the planet is a believer.

Unless we are a judge in court, with the powers of the state invested
in us, we are not meant to judge other people, whether they believe in
abiogenesis or whether they believe in God.

We are, however, meant to evaluate people. We have to evaluate other
people in order to deal with them properly.

Atheists or so-called non-believers have managed to create a false
dichotomy between belief and religion. In modern speech, belief and
religion have become equated, as if belief and faith is exclusive to
religion.

And that is wrong because everyone, whatever they call themselves,
believe in something . It's not a question of believers or
non-believers, it's a question of what to believe in.

Abiogenesis, ie. the belief that life comes from matter, is the chosen
faith of atheists.

The hypothesis that life evolved from inorganic matter is still to
this day a matter of belief. -- Matematician J. W. N. Sullivan
People in general have faith in the way they were brought up and in
the daily activities they perform. They have faith in their culture
and way of life. People have faith in different "isms," like
nationalism, atheism, Marxism, empiricism, feminism, Globalism,
Hinduism, Darwinism, Racism, etc.

Some people ponder their beliefs, and wonder why they think like they
do, but most people of the world today belong in the category of the
broad masses who accept what they are brought up to believe as gospel
truth.

In Atheism, for instance, there is a claim to have no faith, but
people with that outlook are strongly convinced that there is no
eternal soul; they believe the self to be the body. They have faith
that conscious awareness is nothing more than neuro-chemical reactions
in the brain.

Other people have faith that there is a supreme intelligence guiding
and controlling everything, and which is the original cause of all
things.

Since we have to have faith in something, it makes more sense to place
our faith in a religious system or a supreme person rather than
placing our faith in blind natural laws, or the big nothingness.
The thing is, if we are ultimately products of random chance, it leads
to a bleak outlook in life. This is also why, the more atheistic
people become, the more depressed and miserable they become.
If our suffering and enjoyment are random, it means we can't do
anything about it. That means we are puppets in the hands of nature
with no real influence on the workings of matter, except through
technology and politics.

Contrary to that scenario, there is the holistic idea - we all are
part of the same whole. The religion of the Vedas is the original
holistic belief-system of humanity which holds that harmony will only
evolve when individuals give up their selfish pursuits, and come
together to serve the complete whole.

The path to true satisfaction lies in giving up ego-centred pursuits
(whether extended to family and society or contracted to oneself), and
serve the complete whole - Krishna. Only such a course of action will
bring lasting satisfaction to the self.

The basic misunderstanding of the modern way of life is to confuse the
self with the body and mind and thus quarrels and frustrations are
widespread.

It is not possible to satisfy the self or the eternal soul by trying
to satisfy the body and mind. It is like trying to satisfy a bird in a
cage by polishing the cage.

The self is the eternal observer within the gross body and subtle
mind. And because the self is eternal it cannot find satisfaction in
the non-permanent sphere of the body and mind.The body and mind are
constantly changing, while the self is constant.

Therefore the conscious self cannot find satisfaction in a world of
repeated birth and death. How can we find satisfaction when we know
we're soon going to die, except by forgetting about it?

Thus, we're willing to completely forget about death. We're willing to
forget the fact that in the face of death, everyone's hopes and
aspirations are rendered meaningless.

Of course, nobody thinks like that. We go on in life as if we are
never going to die and we think this life is the only chance we'll
ever get to become happy.

In the meantime, while waiting for death, we try to find so many
causes to believe in, but since everything in the material world is
transient, whatever we place our faith in changes and becomes
something else than expected.

The only solution to the problems of finding our real identity is to
accept divine knowledge descending from God, and which furthermore has
been recorded and transcribed in the Vedas, the greatest body of
knowledge known to mankind.

The essence of Vedic knowledge has been delivered and made accessible
to the people of this fallen age by Srila Prabhupada, who comes in the
ancient disciplic succession from Krishna Himself.

Anything else is mental speculation. So there is faith based on
speculation, and faith based on fact. The process of Krishna
consciousness or bhakti-yoga is faith based on facts.

The knowledge Krishna offers in Bhagavad Gita of how nature works
according to the three modes of material nature is a science that can
be tested and verified like any other science. Bhagavad Gita is not a
book of belief, it's a book of knowledge.

Krishna says:

My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to
you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which
you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence. (Bg. 9.1)

This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all
secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct
perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of
religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed. (Bg. 9.2)

Have a look at my art -

http://www.touchtalent.com//artist/118705/jahnu-das

https://www.youtube.com/user/jahnudvip?feature=watch

https://picasaweb.google.com/113672947796865733014/Jahnu

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[Jeanne Douglas]

Post by Jahnu
On Fri, 03 Nov 2017 21:47:52 -0500, "Jeanne Douglas"

Post by Jeanne Douglas
Fictional characters aren't made of anything.

hahaha :) You actually sound like a dumb blonde.
Who ever said they were?

<snippage of yet another insane rant>

[Из Алматы]

"Jahnu" skrev i meddelelsen news:***@4ax.com...

I grew up in Denmark in the 60s and 70s. Even though Denmark has a
state supported Lutheran Church, it's considered a very atheistic
country.

You could also write "how I survived the hare krishnas"

[Cloud Hobbit]

I'm guessing your joining was preceded by som kind of stroke.
Probably one of those little ones that go unnoticed because the damage can be hard to spot.

Your damage is obvious to us.
You could just be a dumbass based on your childish defenses of your faith and the crap you try to pass off as evidence.

You should acknowledge that you might just be wrong and then reexamine the evidence.

It's nonsense.