Lie on me

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. He cant just go on TV and lie on me, she said on CNN. I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

It suggests that he might be trying to do a Harvey Weinstein on her.

Post by Tony Cooper
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

--
athel

Janet

2017-10-22 11:06:41 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@imm.cnrs.fr
says...

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. ?He can?t just go on TV and lie on me,? she said on CNN. ?I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.?
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

It suggests that he might be trying to do a Harvey Weinstein on her.

In the last week, lots of women have told on Harvey Weinstein.

Does AmE have that playground use of "told on".

Janet

Janet.

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 13:12:10 UTC

Post by Janet
says...

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. ?He can?t just go on TV and lie on me,? she said on CNN. ?I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.?
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

It suggests that he might be trying to do a Harvey Weinstein on her.

Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Post by Janet
In the last week, lots of women have told on Harvey Weinstein.
Does AmE have that playground use of "told on".

Yes.

And "I'm telling!"

Richard Tobin

2017-10-22 13:40:29 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

-- Richard

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 14:03:51 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.

Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know what you were referring to.

Richard Tobin

2017-10-22 15:03:18 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.

Which is a completely separate question from whether it is funny.

You, in the statement quoted above, make the logical error of
inferring that because something is claimed to be a joke, the subject
of it must be claimed to be funny.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know what
you were referring to.

I did not refer to the joke. I have nothing to say about it. I
referred to your logical error, which is a common one made by people
who object to a joke for moral or political reasons.

-- Richard

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 18:13:04 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.

Which is a completely separate question from whether it is funny.

Why would someone make a joke about something they didn't think was funny, or trivially funnable?

Post by Richard Tobin
You, in the statement quoted above, make the logical error of
inferring that because something is claimed to be a joke, the subject
of it must be claimed to be funny.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know what
you were referring to.

I did not refer to the joke. I have nothing to say about it. I
referred to your logical error, which is a common one made by people
who object to a joke for moral or political reasons.

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?

In what year did it become acceptable to say, "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you
enjoy the play?" I don't think anyone has yet tried "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you
enjoy the motorcade?" "Other than that, Survivor, are you pleased that the tattoo on your wrist
anticipated a fashion trend?"

Reinhold {Rey} Aman

2017-10-22 21:00:27 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Why would someone make a joke about something they didn't think
was funny, or trivially funnable?

Ignorant well-frog PeteY is unaware of black humor and _Galgenhumor_.

And his "funnable" sucks, like faggot PeteY at the YMCA.

See the ignorant well-frog:
Loading Image...

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

CDB

2017-10-22 21:16:47 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.

Which is a completely separate question from whether it is funny.

Why would someone make a joke about something they didn't think was
funny, or trivially funnable?

Post by Richard Tobin
You, in the statement quoted above, make the logical error of
inferring that because something is claimed to be a joke, the
subject of it must be claimed to be funny.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would
know what you were referring to.

I did not refer to the joke. I have nothing to say about it. I
referred to your logical error, which is a common one made by
people who object to a joke for moral or political reasons.

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?
In what year did it become acceptable to say, "Other than that, Mrs.
Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" I don't think anyone has yet
tried "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you enjoy the
motorcade?" "Other than that, Survivor, are you pleased that the
tattoo on your wrist anticipated a fashion trend?"

I heard the first one in the late '50s, when "sick" jokes were a new thing.

Your invented examples resemble it in that, in all three,
great tragedy, personal and societal, is dismissed as a minor
distraction. I don't know about objecting, but I don't suppose I would
laugh.

Athel's joke (if his brief mention of Harvey Weinstein is the one you
meant) referred to an outrage, but hardly one of such proportions. It
pointed out the ambiguity of "lie on", which seems appropriate for this
group. I pointed it out meself, in fact.

I listened the other day to a brief discussion of "sexual addiction" by
two psychologists who had studied the alleged phenomenon. They agreed
that it wasn't in the diagnostic manual for good reasons, and said that
Weinstein was simply a pushy asshole, in his behaviour with women as in
other aspects of his life.

*********

Having read ahead, I see that that is the joke you meant. It may be
worth noting that Weinstein has only been accused of rape by one woman,
(the other complaints being about disgraceful behaviour of varying
degrees of seriousness) and that that one seems to be being taken seriously.

Tony Cooper

2017-10-22 21:25:28 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.

Which is a completely separate question from whether it is funny.

Why would someone make a joke about something they didn't think was
funny, or trivially funnable?

Post by Richard Tobin
You, in the statement quoted above, make the logical error of
inferring that because something is claimed to be a joke, the
subject of it must be claimed to be funny.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would
know what you were referring to.

I did not refer to the joke. I have nothing to say about it. I
referred to your logical error, which is a common one made by
people who object to a joke for moral or political reasons.

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?
In what year did it become acceptable to say, "Other than that, Mrs.
Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" I don't think anyone has yet
tried "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you enjoy the
motorcade?" "Other than that, Survivor, are you pleased that the
tattoo on your wrist anticipated a fashion trend?"

I find it difficult to take a person seriously who complains about
jokes being offensive when that person inundates this group with
accusations of someone else being a "moron".

He gets his panties in a twist when there's some joking reference to
certain things, but has no compunctions about making a mentally
defective condition a term to be tossed about.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 21:45:25 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
I find it difficult to take a person seriously who complains about
jokes being offensive when that person inundates this group with
accusations of someone else being a "moron".
He gets his panties in a twist when there's some joking reference to
certain things, but has no compunctions about making a mentally
defective condition a term to be tossed about.

The "mentally defective" sense is long-buried, in the past of the "eugenics" that introduced it.

Tony Cooper

2017-10-22 22:51:51 UTC

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 14:45:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

The "mentally defective" sense is long-buried, in the past of the "eugenics" that introduced it.

Oh. So you are not indicating that Athel is mentally defective? What
*are* you indicating?

Perhaps we have been judging both you and Rex Tillerson unfairly, and
you two are using "moron" in some complimentary way.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-23 04:53:54 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 14:45:25 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

The "mentally defective" sense is long-buried, in the past of the "eugenics" that introduced it.

Oh. So you are not indicating that Athel is mentally defective? What
*are* you indicating?
Perhaps we have been judging both you and Rex Tillerson unfairly, and
you two are using "moron" in some complimentary way.

There's a big, big, big difference between an obsolete technical term used in a discredited pseudoscience,
and a generalized insult of what Damia calls "intelligence."

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 21:43:39 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.

Which is a completely separate question from whether it is funny.

Why would someone make a joke about something they didn't think was
funny, or trivially funnable?

Post by Richard Tobin
You, in the statement quoted above, make the logical error of
inferring that because something is claimed to be a joke, the
subject of it must be claimed to be funny.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would
know what you were referring to.

I did not refer to the joke. I have nothing to say about it. I
referred to your logical error, which is a common one made by
people who object to a joke for moral or political reasons.

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?
In what year did it become acceptable to say, "Other than that, Mrs.
Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" I don't think anyone has yet
tried "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you enjoy the
motorcade?" "Other than that, Survivor, are you pleased that the
tattoo on your wrist anticipated a fashion trend?"

What I objected to was not the "joke," if that was what it was, but his characterization of it
("a remark ... not intended seriously").

Post by CDB
I listened the other day to a brief discussion of "sexual addiction" by
two psychologists who had studied the alleged phenomenon. They agreed
that it wasn't in the diagnostic manual for good reasons, and said that
Weinstein was simply a pushy asshole, in his behaviour with women as in
other aspects of his life.
*********
Having read ahead, I see that that is the joke you meant. It may be
worth noting that Weinstein has only been accused of rape by one woman,
(the other complaints being about disgraceful behaviour of varying
degrees of seriousness) and that that one seems to be being taken seriously.

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-23 03:43:45 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.

Which is a completely separate question from whether it is funny.

Why would someone make a joke about something they didn't think was funny, or trivially funnable?

I don't think death is funny. But I think this joke is funny:

Lenny went on vacation and asked Bobby to watch over his house. About a week later, Lenny calls home and asked "How's my cat?"

Bobby hesitated and sadly told Lenny his cat died.

"What?! You shouldn't have broken the news to me like that! You should have done it slowly. The first time I called, you should have told me she was on the roof. The second time I called, you should have said there was no way to get her down. The third time I called, you should have told me that you tried to get her off the roof, but she fell down and died," explained Lenny.

Bobby apologized and went about his day.

About a week later, Lenny called again and asked "How's my Granny?"

There was a long silence and then Bobby replied. "Well, she's on the roof."

Post by Richard Tobin
You, in the statement quoted above, make the logical error of
inferring that because something is claimed to be a joke, the subject
of it must be claimed to be funny.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know what
you were referring to.

I did not refer to the joke. I have nothing to say about it. I
referred to your logical error, which is a common one made by people
who object to a joke for moral or political reasons.

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?
In what year did it become acceptable to say, "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you
enjoy the play?" I don't think anyone has yet tried "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you
enjoy the motorcade?" "Other than that, Survivor, are you pleased that the tattoo on your wrist
anticipated a fashion trend?"

Now, I have to agree, that is a good question. Like to take a stab at the answer?

Best,
Helen

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-23 04:59:57 UTC

[The rooftop joke isn't a joke about death. It's a joke about oversensitivity.]

Post by Richard Tobin
I did not refer to the joke. I have nothing to say about it. I
referred to your logical error, which is a common one made by people
who object to a joke for moral or political reasons.

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?
In what year did it become acceptable to say, "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you
enjoy the play?" I don't think anyone has yet tried "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you
enjoy the motorcade?" "Other than that, Survivor, are you pleased that the tattoo on your wrist
anticipated a fashion trend?"

Now, I have to agree, that is a good question. Like to take a stab at the answer?

An awful lot of comics will follow a joke like those -- that falls flat -- with the mock query,
"Too soon?"

Would Will Rogers have made jokes about FDR's wheelchair, if he'd known about it?

Kennedy-era comedians did make jokes about his rocking chair, even if they didn't know that he
used it because of serious back pain.

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-23 05:11:41 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
[The rooftop joke isn't a joke about death. It's a joke about oversensitivity.]

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?
In what year did it become acceptable to say, "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you
enjoy the play?" I don't think anyone has yet tried "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you
enjoy the motorcade?" "Other than that, Survivor, are you pleased that the tattoo on your wrist
anticipated a fashion trend?"

Now, I have to agree, that is a good question. Like to take a stab at the answer?

An awful lot of comics will follow a joke like those -- that falls flat -- with the mock query,
"Too soon?"
Would Will Rogers have made jokes about FDR's wheelchair, if he'd known about it?
Kennedy-era comedians did make jokes about his rocking chair, even if they didn't know that he
used it because of serious back pain.

A condemned prisoner is being transported to the gallows in the rain.

"Ugh," he says, "don't you have an umbrella for me? The rain is seeping
inside my shirt and shoes."

"What are you complaining about?" said the guards. "We are the ones
who will have to slog all the way back again through this terrible storm!"

Best,
Helen

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-23 05:25:54 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
[The rooftop joke isn't a joke about death. It's a joke about oversensitivity.]

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?
In what year did it become acceptable to say, "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you
enjoy the play?" I don't think anyone has yet tried "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you
enjoy the motorcade?" "Other than that, Survivor, are you pleased that the tattoo on your wrist
anticipated a fashion trend?"

Now, I have to agree, that is a good question. Like to take a stab at the answer?

An awful lot of comics will follow a joke like those -- that falls flat -- with the mock query,
"Too soon?"
Would Will Rogers have made jokes about FDR's wheelchair, if he'd known about it?
Kennedy-era comedians did make jokes about his rocking chair, even if they didn't know that he
used it because of serious back pain.

A condemned prisoner is being transported to the gallows in the rain.
"Ugh," he says, "don't you have an umbrella for me? The rain is seeping
inside my shirt and shoes."
"What are you complaining about?" said the guards. "We are the ones
who will have to slog all the way back again through this terrible storm!"

The rope might break, there's always hope!

(Except on Hawaii Five-O, where the bad guys always miss and the good guys never do.)

J. J. Lodder

2017-10-23 11:45:01 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
[The rooftop joke isn't a joke about death. It's a joke about
oversensitivity.]

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?
In what year did it become acceptable to say, "Other than that, Mrs.
Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" I don't think anyone has yet
tried "Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you enjoy the
motorcade?" "Other than that, Survivor, are you pleased that the
tattoo on your wrist anticipated a fashion trend?"

Now, I have to agree, that is a good question. Like to take a stab at the answer?

An awful lot of comics will follow a joke like those -- that falls flat --
with the mock query, "Too soon?"
Would Will Rogers have made jokes about FDR's wheelchair, if he'd known about it?
Kennedy-era comedians did make jokes about his rocking chair, even if they
didn't know that he used it because of serious back pain.

All of them could see his bloated prednison face,
(aka Cushing's syndrome)
and there were no comments about it, afaik,

Jan

Yes, I know, the effects of prednison were little known at the time,
but it was obvious that he looked far from healthy.

Richard Tobin

2017-10-23 09:29:12 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.

Which is a completely separate question from whether it is funny.

Why would someone make a joke about something they didn't think was
funny, or trivially funnable?

Most jokes are not about things that are in themselves funny.
I'm not going to address "trivially funnable" because I have
no idea what it means.

Are you saying those are not valid reasons for objecting to a joke?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand? Those are perfectly
valid reasons. As I have said several times now, the error is saying
"X is not funny" when you mean "X is not an appropriate subject for a
joke".

-- Richard

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-22 16:29:08 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know what you were referring to.

A chemist, a shopkeeper and a teacher were sentenced to death
by firing squad. The chemist was taken from his cell and as the soldiers
took aim he shouted "Avalanche!" The soldiers panicked and in the
confusion the chemist escaped. The shopkeeper was led out next.
As the soldiers took aim he shouted "Flood!" and escaped. The teacher
was then led out. The squad took aim and the teacher, remembering
how the other two had escaped, shouted "Fire!"

Best,
Helen

Richard Tobin

2017-10-22 16:30:37 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know

what you were referring to.
A chemist, a shopkeeper and a teacher were sentenced to death
by firing squad. The chemist was taken from his cell and as the soldiers
took aim he shouted "Avalanche!" The soldiers panicked and in the
confusion the chemist escaped. The shopkeeper was led out next.
As the soldiers took aim he shouted "Flood!" and escaped. The teacher
was then led out. The squad took aim and the teacher, remembering
how the other two had escaped, shouted "Fire!"

Firing squads are not funny!

-- Richard

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-22 17:10:20 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know

Firing squads are not funny!

Oh, sorry. How about this one?

A man is driving with his wife and small child. A militiaman pulls
them over and makes the man take a breathalyzer test. “See,”
the militiaman says, “you’re drunk.” The man protests that the
breathalyzer must be broken and invites the cop to test his wife.
She also registers as drunk. Exasperated, the man invites the cop
to test his child. When the child registers drunk as well, the cop shrugs
and says “Yes, perhaps it is broken,” and sends them on their way. Out
of earshot the man tells his wife, “See, I told you is wouldn’t hurt to give
the kid five grams of vodka.”

Best,
Helen

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-22 17:53:06 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know

Firing squads are not funny!

Oh, sorry. How about this one?
A man is driving with his wife and small child. A militiaman pulls
them over and makes the man take a breathalyzer test. “See,”
the militiaman says, “you’re drunk.” The man protests that the
breathalyzer must be broken and invites the cop to test his wife.
She also registers as drunk. Exasperated, the man invites the cop
to test his child. When the child registers drunk as well, the cop shrugs
and says “Yes, perhaps it is broken,” and sends them on their way. Out
of earshot the man tells his wife, “See, I told you is wouldn’t hurt to give
the kid five grams of vodka.”

Should be ounces.

Best,
Helen

Ken Blake

2017-10-22 18:00:45 UTC

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 10:53:06 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know

Firing squads are not funny!

Oh, sorry. How about this one?
A man is driving with his wife and small child. A militiaman pulls
them over and makes the man take a breathalyzer test. “See,”
the militiaman says, “you’re drunk.” The man protests that the
breathalyzer must be broken and invites the cop to test his wife.
She also registers as drunk. Exasperated, the man invites the cop
to test his child. When the child registers drunk as well, the cop shrugs
and says “Yes, perhaps it is broken,” and sends them on their way. Out
of earshot the man tells his wife, “See, I told you is wouldn’t hurt to give
the kid five grams of vodka.”

Should be ounces.

Yes, but only if it's considerably less than five. Five ounces of
vodka might kill

musika

2017-10-22 18:31:00 UTC

Post by Richard Tobin
Firing squads are not funny!

Then you haven't watched Black Adder.

--
Ray
UK

Janet

2017-10-22 22:40:08 UTC

In article <osih3d$10vd$***@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk>, ***@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
says...

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know

Firing squads are not funny!

Neither are chemists.

Janet.

grabber

2017-10-22 16:36:36 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know what you were referring to.

Are teachers the new Irish?

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2017-10-22 17:18:30 UTC

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 09:29:08 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know what you were referring to.

There are some mistakes you don't live to regret.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 18:22:38 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

It does not imply, it states, that it is something to be joked about.
Of course you removed the alleged "joke" so that no one would know what you were referring to.

Good one!

Assuming that all three had been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt of capital offenses, and
all DNA evidence had been taken into consideration, and the first two were quickly recaptured.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2017-10-22 15:27:23 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

I made no such claim. As usual the nasty little man displays his
inability to understand what he reads, or, in this case, who wrote what
he's attacking.

--
athel

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 18:15:22 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Telling a joke about X does not imply that X is funny.

I made no such claim. As usual the nasty little man displays his
inability to understand what he reads, or, in this case, who wrote what
he's attacking.

The senile moron doesn't remember making a joke about Harvey Weinstein? Or rather, made a statement
about a congresswoman that he subsequently claimed was a joke about Weinstein? Isn't it time he
headed off to Barcelona, already?

Janet

2017-10-22 15:49:54 UTC

Post by Janet
says...

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. ?He can?t just go on TV and lie on me,? she said on CNN. ?I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.?
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

It suggests that he might be trying to do a Harvey Weinstein on her.

Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Peter, if you think you're being amusing, you're not.

Janet

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2017-10-22 16:36:41 UTC

[ ... ]
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Peter, if you think you're being amusing, you're not.

It hadn't occurred to me that he might think he was being amusing (I
can't remember anything he ever said that I have found amusing: even
when he's right, something that happens occasionally, he is never
amusing). I thought he was just indulging in one of his favourite
pastimes of scraping the bottom of the barrel to find nasty things to
say about me. His pretence that I wasn't familiar with African American
Vernacular English fell rather flat, so he invented a new insult out of
whole cloth with his lie that I had claimed that my earlier post was a
joke.

--
athel

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 18:32:35 UTC

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Peter, if you think you're being amusing, you're not.

How would someone afraid to read what I write have the slightest idea of whether my intentional
pleasantries are amusing or not?

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I thought he was just indulging in one of his favourite
pastimes of scraping the bottom of the barrel to find nasty things to
say about me. His pretence that I wasn't familiar with African American
Vernacular English fell rather flat,

How so?

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
so he invented a new insult out of
whole cloth with his lie that I had claimed that my earlier post was a
joke.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I can understand Athel being utterly unfamiliar with AAVE, but not you.

So the silly little man is completely incapable of judging when a
remark is not intended seriously."

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 18:20:25 UTC

Post by Janet
says...

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. ?He can?t just go on TV and lie on me,? she said on CNN. ?I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.?
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

It suggests that he might be trying to do a Harvey Weinstein on her.

Athel, by claiming that was a joke, seems to think that rape is funny.

Peter, if you think you're being amusing, you're not.

No. People who make jokes about rape and try to weasel out of them (such as D. J. Trump) are not funny.

Ken Blake

2017-10-22 16:03:45 UTC

Post by Janet
says...

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. ?He can?t just go on TV and lie on me,? she said on CNN. ?I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.?
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

It suggests that he might be trying to do a Harvey Weinstein on her.

In the last week, lots of women have told on Harvey Weinstein.
Does AmE have

HVS

2017-10-22 16:37:09 UTC

Post by Janet
says...

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the

White House

Post by Tony Cooper
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. ?He can?t just go on TV and lie on me,? she said on CNN. ?I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the

building was

Post by Tony Cooper
secured.?
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

It suggests that he might be trying to do a Harvey Weinstein on her.

In the last week, lots of women have told on Harvey Weinstein.
Does AmE have that playground use of "told on".

Yes.

Nor is it restricted to playgrounds - "Your cheatin' heart will tell
on you".

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed

Lewis

2017-10-23 00:16:32 UTC

Post by Janet
says...

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. ?He can?t just go on TV and lie on me,? she said on CNN. ?I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.?
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

It suggests that he might be trying to do a Harvey Weinstein on her.

In the last week, lots of women have told on Harvey Weinstein.

Is that the phrase used? Seem very juvenile (intentionally?)

Post by Janet
Does AmE have that playground use of "told on".

Yes. And it implies that the person doing the telling is a poncy little
wimp tattle-tale who deserves what's coming.

--
Tina... homecoming is spelled c *O* m

Janet

2017-10-23 12:20:46 UTC

Post by Janet
says...

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. ?He can?t just go on TV and lie on me,? she said on CNN. ?I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.?
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

It suggests that he might be trying to do a Harvey Weinstein on her.

In the last week, lots of women have told on Harvey Weinstein.

Is that the phrase used? Seem very juvenile (intentionally?)

I just used it. Do you think a juvenile phrase lessens the seriousness
of the man's offence?

Post by Janet
Does AmE have that playground use of "told on".

Yes. And it implies that the person doing the telling is a poncy little
wimp tattle-tale who deserves what's coming.

Sounds to me like shooting the messenger.

IME, it's generally the playground bullies who are poncy little wimps
who deserve what's coming to them when they get told on.

Janet.

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-21 15:59:12 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I can understand Athel being utterly unfamiliar with AAVE, but not you.

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-21 16:13:15 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I can understand Athel being utterly unfamiliar with AAVE, but not you.

Compare, for instance:

"She's always ragging on me." (complaining and nagging)
"Don't hate on me." (to be jealously mean)

So, "go on tv and lie on me" makes sense. It takes the act of lying and makes
it personal.

Best,
Helen

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2017-10-21 16:29:29 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I can understand Athel being utterly unfamiliar with AAVE, but not you.

So the silly little man is completely incapable of judging when a
remark is not intended seriously. If he thinks he's going to confuse me
by using USA-specific abbreviations like AAVE he's wrong as usual.

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
"She's always ragging on me." (complaining and nagging)
"Don't hate on me." (to be jealously mean)
So, "go on tv and lie on me" makes sense. It takes the act of lying and makes
it personal.
Best,
Helen

--
athel

Tony Cooper

2017-10-21 16:58:59 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

I can understand Athel being utterly unfamiliar with AAVE, but not you.

WTF are you on about now? I said it grates. I didn't say I was not
familiar with it. I pointed out that she is African-American. I may
be familiar with some African-American ways of expressing things, but
that doesn't mean they don't grate.

What has Athel got to do with this? His response was a joke, not a
comment of unfamiliarity.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

CDB

2017-10-21 18:05:26 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White
House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN.
“I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building
was secured.” [end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.

Same "on" as in "tell on", I suppose. Lying to someone who will judge
you on that basis.

Post by Tony Cooper
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I can understand Athel being utterly unfamiliar with AAVE, but not you.

It's the ambiguity, together with the fact that some White folks lie on
Black folks a whole lot, even when the Black folks don't much want them to.

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2017-10-21 18:36:04 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I can understand Athel being utterly unfamiliar with AAVE, but not you.

That sense of "lie on" is known to the OED. It dates from before AAVE
and is marked as obsolete. The "entry has not yet been fully updated
(first published 1902)".

lie, v.2

1.b. to lie of (arch.), †on, †upon: to tell lies about.

The earliest quotation is dated "a1200".

c1275 Passion of Our Lord 241 in Old Eng. Misc. 44 A ueole kunne
wise hi lowen him vp-on.
...
??a1513 W. Dunbar Flyting in Poems (1998) I. 204 Thocht
thow..thus vpoun me leid.
....
1580 J. Hay Certain Demandes in T. G. Law Catholic Tractates
(1901) 59 Quhy ar ye nocht esscheamed..to lie on wss in your
preachings, saying [etc.].
1629 J. Earle Micro-cosmogr. (ed. 5) iv. sig. B9v Whosoeuer dare
lye on him hath power ouer him.
....
1871 R. Ellis tr. Catullus Poems lxvii. 20 They lie on her [L.
falsum est].

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

David Kleinecke

2017-10-21 18:46:58 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 08:59:12 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I can understand Athel being utterly unfamiliar with AAVE, but not you.

That sense of "lie on" is known to the OED. It dates from before AAVE
and is marked as obsolete. The "entry has not yet been fully updated
(first published 1902)".
lie, v.2
1.b. to lie of (arch.), †on, †upon: to tell lies about.
The earliest quotation is dated "a1200".
c1275 Passion of Our Lord 241 in Old Eng. Misc. 44 A ueole kunne
wise hi lowen him vp-on.
...
??a1513 W. Dunbar Flyting in Poems (1998) I. 204 Thocht
thow..thus vpoun me leid.
....
1580 J. Hay Certain Demandes in T. G. Law Catholic Tractates
(1901) 59 Quhy ar ye nocht esscheamed..to lie on wss in your
preachings, saying [etc.].
1629 J. Earle Micro-cosmogr. (ed. 5) iv. sig. B9v Whosoeuer dare
lye on him hath power ouer him.
....
1871 R. Ellis tr. Catullus Poems lxvii. 20 They lie on her [L.
falsum est].

So the AAVE may be a survival rather than an innovation.

Interesting.

Mack A. Damia

2017-10-21 16:20:02 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

I am familiar with that usage.

You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

b***@aol.com

2017-10-21 17:56:19 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Mack A. Damia

2017-10-21 18:12:26 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

It is all about popular and particular usage. I don't think
"equivalents" are relevant.

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-21 18:18:24 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Helen the Spartan provided some of the expressions from which this one was
creatively analogized.

b***@aol.com

2017-10-21 19:37:18 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Helen the Spartan provided some of the expressions from which this one was
creatively analogized.

Indeed, but my point is that the usage is different (towards vs about).

IMHO, the usage of "on" in "lie on" here is pretty unremarkable, as one
basic meaning of "on" is "about".

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-21 19:29:04 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Kelly did not lie to her. He went on national television and, from her
point of view, lied to the nation about her. That's different, and I can't
think of any more efficient way of expressing than hers. He totally
lied on her.

Go back and see my previous post referencing similar expressions:

"rag on"
"hate on"

I really don't think her words are ambiguous or difficult to understand,
although they do represent an innovation to my ears. But an easily
grasped one. I'll probably adopt it for my own use.

Best,
Helen

b***@aol.com

2017-10-21 19:49:27 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Kelly did not lie to her. He went on national television and, from her
point of view, lied to the nation about her.

That's what I understood too - what I wrote above means:

'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
That's different, and I can't
think of any more efficient way of expressing than hers. He totally
lied on her.
"rag on"
"hate on"
I really don't think her words are ambiguous or difficult to understand,
although they do represent an innovation to my ears. But an easily
grasped one. I'll probably adopt it for my own use.
Best,
Helen

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-21 21:37:34 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Kelly did not lie to her. He went on national television and, from her
point of view, lied to the nation about her.

'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

I don't think "cheat on" is the correct antecedent. Look instead at these:

"hate on" --> to express hate/jealousy towards a person, but not necessarily
to their face, as in:

"Why you always hating on Beyonce?"

"rag on" --> to express complaints about:

"Don't rag on him for being tired -- don't you see how hard he works?"

In a way, "lie on" leverages both of these meanings to enhance the underlying
accusation. He not only lied, but he did it in a mean, public, and berating
way.

Best,
Helen

Tony Cooper

2017-10-21 22:03:11 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
"hate on" --> to express hate/jealousy towards a person, but not necessarily

In my opinion, you are defending something by offering something worse
as a comparable usage.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-21 22:11:25 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
"hate on" --> to express hate/jealousy towards a person, but not necessarily

In my opinion, you are defending something by offering something worse
as a comparable usage.

You seem to be getting pretty emotional about this. Is she your representative?
Is the issue that you would prefer your representative to express him or herself
entirely in standard (white) English, circa 1940? Or, what year would you pick as
the one where we freeze the language in stone?

Best,
Helen

Tony Cooper

2017-10-21 23:05:06 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 15:11:25 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
"hate on" --> to express hate/jealousy towards a person, but not necessarily

In my opinion, you are defending something by offering something worse
as a comparable usage.

You seem to be getting pretty emotional about this.

No, not at all. a.u.e. is the place where we bring up topics like
this and express opinions.

There are expressions and usages that I don't like. I strongly
dislike it when people start sentences with "Basically...". I
strongly dislike the use of "Like" as a perpetual interjection in a
conversation. I strongly dislike "You know what I mean?" used as
filler after all statements. There are others.

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
Is she your representative?

If you mean "Representative", then no. She is in South Florida and I
am in Central Florida. Stephanie Murphy is the Representative for my
congressional district.

Until this flap, I don't think Rep Wilson ever came to my attention.
In fact, in this imbroglio, I'm very much on Rep Wilson's side. She's
been maligned by the President and maligned by the WH CoS, and
maligned unfairly.

That doesn't mean that I don't notice something she's said that grates
on me and bring it up here. If she says that Gen Kelly is "hating on
her", that - too - will grate.

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
Is the issue that you would prefer your representative to express him or herself
entirely in standard (white) English, circa 1940?

That's rather loaded, Helen. I noticed this usage because it is
non-standard and worth commenting on in this group.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-22 03:20:23 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 15:11:25 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
"hate on" --> to express hate/jealousy towards a person, but not necessarily

In my opinion, you are defending something by offering something worse
as a comparable usage.

You seem to be getting pretty emotional about this.

No, not at all. a.u.e. is the place where we bring up topics like
this and express opinions.
There are expressions and usages that I don't like. I strongly
dislike it when people start sentences with "Basically...". I
strongly dislike the use of "Like" as a perpetual interjection in a
conversation. I strongly dislike "You know what I mean?" used as
filler after all statements. There are others.

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
Is she your representative?

If you mean "Representative", then no. She is in South Florida and I
am in Central Florida. Stephanie Murphy is the Representative for my
congressional district.
Until this flap, I don't think Rep Wilson ever came to my attention.
In fact, in this imbroglio, I'm very much on Rep Wilson's side. She's
been maligned by the President and maligned by the WH CoS, and
maligned unfairly.
That doesn't mean that I don't notice something she's said that grates
on me and bring it up here. If she says that Gen Kelly is "hating on
her", that - too - will grate.

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
Is the issue that you would prefer your representative to express him or herself
entirely in standard (white) English, circa 1940?

That's rather loaded, Helen. I noticed this usage because it is
non-standard and worth commenting on in this group.

Tony, I was delighted that you noted the usage and brought it to
the attention of this group! What concerns me is the fact that you
responded to every post with the exact same idea, the idea that you
began with, that this usage was personally irritating to you. This apparent
rigidity suggested that your ideas would be unaffected by any actual
information that might have been imparted by the discussion here.

So why bother?

I post here so that the informed discussion that ensues can help me
to understand a new and/or unfamiliar usage.

Why do you post such repetitive screeds? To register and then reinforce
an uninformed complaint?

I call that overemotional.

Best,
Helen

RH Draney

2017-10-22 00:15:15 UTC

Post by b***@aol.com
'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

"hate on" --> to express hate/jealousy towards a person, but not necessarily
"Why you always hating on Beyonce?"
"Don't rag on him for being tired -- don't you see how hard he works?"
In a way, "lie on" leverages both of these meanings to enhance the underlying
accusation. He not only lied, but he did it in a mean, public, and berating
way.

And if he'd said something true about her instead, but still something
that she'd rather not have had said, she might well complain "he told on
me!"...r

m***@att.net

2017-10-22 19:57:00 UTC

Post by RH Draney

Post by b***@aol.com
'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

And if he'd said something true about her instead, but still something
that she'd rather not have had said, she might well complain "he told on
me!"...r

As somebody was making some reference, there's a bit of ambiguity between
lying on me, as in 'speaking lies', and lying on me like 'getting prone on top of me'. These other examples are similar in construction but don't
have that kind of property. If you just changed the baby's diaper you
might say "that baby went and peed on me" if you spoke like the
congresswoman. May or may not mean you got splashed.

Rich Ulrich

2017-10-22 17:26:47 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Kelly did not lie to her. He went on national television and, from her
point of view, lied to the nation about her.

'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

I could be wrong because I know it only from a few books,
but I think that the immediate antecedent phrase may be
"throw shade on" --> lie about.

In this case, "lie on" could be the quick avoidance of the less
familiar phrase.

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
Best,
Helen

--
Rich Ulrich

Helen Lacedaemonian

2017-10-22 17:50:53 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Kelly did not lie to her. He went on national television and, from her
point of view, lied to the nation about her.

'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

I could be wrong because I know it only from a few books,
but I think that the immediate antecedent phrase may be
"throw shade on" --> lie about.
In this case, "lie on" could be the quick avoidance of the less
familiar phrase.

Yes, good point. I'd forgotten that one. To be clear, "to throw shade"
means to publicly insult someone, not specifically by means of a lie.
But I agree that it is a good candidate for a direct antecedent.

Best,
Helen

Rich Ulrich

2017-10-23 16:24:36 UTC

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 10:50:53 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Kelly did not lie to her. He went on national television and, from her
point of view, lied to the nation about her.

'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

I could be wrong because I know it only from a few books,
but I think that the immediate antecedent phrase may be
"throw shade on" --> lie about.
In this case, "lie on" could be the quick avoidance of the less
familiar phrase.

Thanks for the correction. A lot of insults are lies, but I see how
"throwing shade" can be more subtle -- such as,, making a simple
declaration with a sneer.

--
Rich Ulrich

David Kleinecke

2017-10-23 17:28:09 UTC

Post by Rich Ulrich
A lot of insults are lies, but I see how
"throwing shade" can be more subtle -- such as,, making a simple
declaration with a sneer.

Or even patronizing - as in the case of Trump's talk
with the soldier's mother.

CDB

2017-10-23 18:14:47 UTC

A lot of insults are lies, but I see how "throwing shade" can be
more subtle -- such as,, making a simple declaration with a sneer.

Or even patronizing - as in the case of Trump's talk with the
soldier's mother.

Kelly told him to say something like "He died doing an important job
that he loved, even though he knew it was dangerous". In Trumpese that
came out as "He knew what he was signing up for".

Sad, as they say, but his inability to comfort the grieving is not among
the faults that make him a dangerous failure at his job.

Janet

2017-10-23 18:27:04 UTC

A lot of insults are lies, but I see how "throwing shade" can be
more subtle -- such as,, making a simple declaration with a sneer.

Or even patronizing - as in the case of Trump's talk with the
soldier's mother.

Kelly told him to say something like "He died doing an important job
that he loved, even though he knew it was dangerous". In Trumpese that
came out as "He knew what he was signing up for".
Sad, as they say, but his inability to comfort the grieving is not among
the faults that make him a dangerous failure at his job.

What he demonstrated was his thoughtless carelessness and
superficiality. His crude and crass inability to make a rational
assessment of the situation, then behave appropriately in a
statesmanlike manner.

That does make him a dangerous failure at his job.

Janet.

Tony Cooper

2017-10-23 19:15:33 UTC

A lot of insults are lies, but I see how "throwing shade" can be
more subtle -- such as,, making a simple declaration with a sneer.

Or even patronizing - as in the case of Trump's talk with the
soldier's mother.

Kelly told him to say something like "He died doing an important job
that he loved, even though he knew it was dangerous". In Trumpese that
came out as "He knew what he was signing up for".
Sad, as they say, but his inability to comfort the grieving is not among
the faults that make him a dangerous failure at his job.

I could forgive him for inadvertently being tactless in his remarks.
He's not a follow-the-script type of person.

What I can't accept is the denial of saying what he said when it is
verifiable that he did say it. When a person is known to fabricate -
OK, "lie" - the assumption becomes he will lie about anything.

But, we already knew that.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 18:35:24 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by b***@aol.com
'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

I could be wrong because I know it only from a few books,
but I think that the immediate antecedent phrase may be
"throw shade on" --> lie about.
In this case, "lie on" could be the quick avoidance of the less
familiar phrase.

I've mostly heard it intransitively -- I think Obama said something about "throwing shade"
when talking with Keegan Michael Key.

Janet

2017-10-22 22:43:08 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by b***@aol.com
'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

I could be wrong because I know it only from a few books,
but I think that the immediate antecedent phrase may be
"throw shade on" --> lie about.
In this case, "lie on" could be the quick avoidance of the less
familiar phrase.

I've mostly heard it intransitively -- I think Obama said something about "throwing shade"
when talking with Keegan Michael Key.

I've only heard it as "cast a shadow on"

Janet

Lewis

2017-10-23 00:18:49 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she said on CNN. “I
was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building was
secured.”
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Kelly did not lie to her. He went on national television and, from her
point of view, lied to the nation about her.

'But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as meaning "lie about me"?'

I could be wrong because I know it only from a few books,
but I think that the immediate antecedent phrase may be
"throw shade on" --> lie about.

Throw shade does not mean lying.

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
'Tis the Season to bitch and moan.

Tony Cooper

2017-10-21 22:00:36 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 12:29:04 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Kelly did not lie to her. He went on national television and, from her
point of view, lied to the nation about her. That's different, and I can't
think of any more efficient way of expressing than hers. He totally
lied on her.
"rag on"
"hate on"
I really don't think her words are ambiguous or difficult to understand,
although they do represent an innovation to my ears. But an easily
grasped one. I'll probably adopt it for my own use.

Oh, I *understood* what she was saying. I just don't like it. I
would expect "lie about me" or, more extensively, "lie about what I
said".

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Mack A. Damia

2017-10-22 01:06:30 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 18:00:36 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 12:29:04 -0700 (PDT), Helen Lacedaemonian

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:23:08 -0400, Tony Cooper

I am familiar with that usage.
You might say, "I am not going to sit back and let my girlfriend cheat
on me."

But wouldn't the equivalent of "cheat on me" be "lie to me", and not
"lie on me" as used here, i.e. "lie about me"?

Kelly did not lie to her. He went on national television and, from her
point of view, lied to the nation about her. That's different, and I can't
think of any more efficient way of expressing than hers. He totally
lied on her.
"rag on"
"hate on"
I really don't think her words are ambiguous or difficult to understand,
although they do represent an innovation to my ears. But an easily
grasped one. I'll probably adopt it for my own use.

Oh, I *understood* what she was saying. I just don't like it. I
would expect "lie about me" or, more extensively, "lie about what I
said".

I don't know about "hate on me" or "hating on somebody"; I don't
remember hearing that in ordinary conversation.

Reminds me of the 1986 song that I don't like, "Take on me", by a-ha.

My local radio station plays it often.

Reinhold {Rey} Aman

2017-10-21 16:50:28 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. He cant just go on TV and lie on me, she said on CNN.
I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building
was secured.
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

That idiotic Negress, Frederica Wilson, was called an "empty barrel"
(which make the loudest noise). She looked it up in a dictionary and
stated that "empty barrel" is *racist*. What a racist asshole!

For more info, Google <"empty barrel" racist>.

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

Mack A. Damia

2017-10-21 17:16:29 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 09:50:28 -0700, Reinhold {Rey} Aman

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White House
Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. He cant just go on TV and lie on me, she said on CNN.
I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building
was secured.
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents a
South Florida congressional district.

Good for her. Anything that sticks to the wall.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody names. He
has sullied the Office of the Presidency big time and much of the
nation is stunned by his nonsense.

As Churchill's grandson said, he is a "daft twerp".

Reinhold {Rey} Aman

2017-10-21 23:03:43 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White
House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. He cant just go on TV and lie on me, she said on CNN.
I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building
was secured.
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents
a South Florida congressional district.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody names.

Trump did not call her an "empty barrel." It was White House Chief of
Staff John Kelly.

Amazingly, so far in this thread, everyone is only concerned with the
preposition "on" but ignores the stupendous stupidity of stating that
"empty barrel" is *racist*.

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

Tony Cooper

2017-10-21 23:31:20 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 16:03:43 -0700, Reinhold {Rey} Aman

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White
House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. He cant just go on TV and lie on me, she said on CNN.
I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building
was secured.
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents
a South Florida congressional district.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody names.

Trump did not call her an "empty barrel." It was White House Chief of
Staff John Kelly.
Amazingly, so far in this thread, everyone is only concerned with the
preposition "on" but ignores the stupendous stupidity of stating that
"empty barrel" is *racist*.

Do you think it could be because the Subject is "Lie on me" and my
original post on this subject questions the usage?

We can discuss "empty barrel" if you'd like, and we can discuss "All
hat and no cattle" (Sarah Huckabee Sanders' description of the
hat-wearing Representative from South Florida), but it's really not a
violation of the TOS of a.u.e to stay on subject.

While I don't see "empty barrel" as a racist comment in any way, this
Kelly's second observed use of the term. The first was about Rep Luis
Gutiérrez (D-Illinois). His barrels all seem to be minorities.

Or, to drift a bit further, we can discuss SHS's usage of "apples and
oranges" when it was brought up that Pence used a private email server
just as Ms Clinton did.

Personally, if Ms Huckabee Sanders prepares a Waldorf salad, I'm not
sure if she knows that Valencia oranges are not the usual ingredient.

Any other terms you'd like to ring in here?

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Mack A. Damia

2017-10-21 23:35:50 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 16:03:43 -0700, Reinhold {Rey} Aman

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White
House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. He cant just go on TV and lie on me, she said on CNN.
I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building
was secured.
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents
a South Florida congressional district.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody names.

Trump did not call her an "empty barrel." It was White House Chief of
Staff John Kelly.
Amazingly, so far in this thread, everyone is only concerned with the
preposition "on" but ignores the stupendous stupidity of stating that
"empty barrel" is *racist*.

Sarah Bimbobee Sanders who is Trump's (WH) spokeswoman echoed that
slur.

Reference AUE'e earlier conversation of these idioms, she exclaimed
that it means, "All hat and no cattle".

Tony Cooper

2017-10-21 23:53:22 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 16:35:50 -0700, Mack A. Damia

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 16:03:43 -0700, Reinhold {Rey} Aman

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White
House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. He cant just go on TV and lie on me, she said on CNN.
I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building
was secured.
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents
a South Florida congressional district.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody names.

Trump did not call her an "empty barrel." It was White House Chief of
Staff John Kelly.
Amazingly, so far in this thread, everyone is only concerned with the
preposition "on" but ignores the stupendous stupidity of stating that
"empty barrel" is *racist*.

Sarah Bimbobee Sanders who is Trump's (WH) spokeswoman echoed that
slur.
Reference AUE'e earlier conversation of these idioms, she exclaimed
that it means, "All hat and no cattle".

I didn't read that, and she may have said that, but it was actually a
pretty good jab by the usually boring and unimaginative Huckabee
Sanders.

Rep Wilson is known for wearing cowboy hats.

http://tinyurl.com/yczasjss or
https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/crop/3260x2140+0+10/resize/1028x675!/format/jpg/quality/85/http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas%2F89007897d8b5b94cad7743578bdf9fff%2F205784324%2Frep-frederica-wilson-speaks-at-a-congressional-field-hearing-on-home-picture-id863085008

Not the normal chapeau for someone in her congressional district of
South Florida. The only horses in her district run at Gulfstream or
Hialeah Park, and the jockeys don't wear ten-gallon hats. I don't
think her district extends to Palm Beach where the horses are ridden
by men who hit a ball with a mallet. She'd probably be refused at the
bridge, anyway.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Mack A. Damia

2017-10-22 00:00:19 UTC

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 19:53:22 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 16:35:50 -0700, Mack A. Damia

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 16:03:43 -0700, Reinhold {Rey} Aman

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the White
House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of lying
about her. He cant just go on TV and lie on me, she said on CNN.
I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money for the building
was secured.
[end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who represents
a South Florida congressional district.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody names.

Trump did not call her an "empty barrel." It was White House Chief of
Staff John Kelly.
Amazingly, so far in this thread, everyone is only concerned with the
preposition "on" but ignores the stupendous stupidity of stating that
"empty barrel" is *racist*.

Sarah Bimbobee Sanders who is Trump's (WH) spokeswoman echoed that
slur.
Reference AUE'e earlier conversation of these idioms, she exclaimed
that it means, "All hat and no cattle".

I didn't read that, and she may have said that, but it was actually a
pretty good jab by the usually boring and unimaginative Huckabee
Sanders.

Quoting you in another context, she grates on my nerves.

I saw the press conference, and that was her explanation.

Post by Tony Cooper
Rep Wilson is known for wearing cowboy hats.

Now I didn't put that together, and I saw her wearing a cowboy hat.

Post by Tony Cooper
http://tinyurl.com/yczasjss or
https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/crop/3260x2140+0+10/resize/1028x675!/format/jpg/quality/85/http%3A%2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas%2F89007897d8b5b94cad7743578bdf9fff%2F205784324%2Frep-frederica-wilson-speaks-at-a-congressional-field-hearing-on-home-picture-id863085008
Not the normal chapeau for someone in her congressional district of
South Florida. The only horses in her district run at Gulfstream or
Hialeah Park, and the jockeys don't wear ten-gallon hats. I don't
think her district extends to Palm Beach where the horses are ridden
by men who hit a ball with a mallet. She'd probably be refused at the
bridge, anyway.

CDB

2017-10-22 07:48:28 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the
White House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of
lying about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she
said on CNN. “I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money
for the building was secured.” [end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who
represents a South Florida congressional district.

That idiotic Negress, Frederica Wilson, was called an "empty
barrel" (which make the loudest noise). She looked it up in a
dictionary and stated that "empty barrel" is *racist*. What a
racist asshole!
For more info, Google <"empty barrel" racist>.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody names.

Trump did not call her an "empty barrel." It was White House Chief
of Staff John Kelly.
Amazingly, so far in this thread, everyone is only concerned with
the preposition "on" but ignores the stupendous stupidity of stating
that "empty barrel" is *racist*.

Because there's nothing to argue about, I suppose. I haven't seen her
dictionary's definition in the coverage, only her assertion that it
calls the phrase racist; that might spark a discussion here, if it says
what she reports.

Maybe it says "(pej.)", and she figures that anything insult to an
African-American woman is racist and disgusting by, uh, definition.

Lewis

2017-10-22 08:57:06 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the
White House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly of
lying about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,” she
said on CNN. “I was not even in Congress in 2009 when the money
for the building was secured.” [end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who
represents a South Florida congressional district.

That idiotic Negress, Frederica Wilson, was called an "empty
barrel" (which make the loudest noise). She looked it up in a
dictionary and stated that "empty barrel" is *racist*. What a
racist asshole!
For more info, Google <"empty barrel" racist>.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody names.

Trump did not call her an "empty barrel." It was White House Chief
of Staff John Kelly.
Amazingly, so far in this thread, everyone is only concerned with
the preposition "on" but ignores the stupendous stupidity of stating
that "empty barrel" is *racist*.

I've never herd the phrase empty barrel in this context (or any context
other than a barrel which is empty), so I have no idea if it is racists.
The consensus appears to be that it is not.

Post by CDB
Maybe it says "(pej.)", and she figures that anything insult to an
African-American woman is racist and disgusting by, uh, definition.

She should take pride in the fact that a worthless piece of shit and
disgrace to the uniform like Kelly and the slavish ass-licker Sander are
insulting her. If they were praising her, that would be very
concerning.

--
Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you
put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying
"End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH," the paint wouldn't even
have time to dry.

Richard Tobin

2017-10-22 10:20:26 UTC

Post by Lewis
I've never herd the phrase empty barrel in this context (or any context
other than a barrel which is empty), so I have no idea if it is racists.
The consensus appears to be that it is not.

The traditional phrase is empty *vessel*, widely known because of its
use in Henry V, though it is already described as a saying there.

-- Richard

Jerry Friedman

2017-10-22 14:26:01 UTC

The traditional phrase is empty *vessel*, widely known because of its
use in Henry V, though it is already described as a saying there.

We just did this in Bozo's thread on citing proverbs. Obviously Gen.
Kelly reads a.u.e.

--
Jerry Friedman

CDB

2017-10-22 11:04:42 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the
White House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly
of lying about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,”
she said on CNN. “I was not even in Congress in 2009 when
the money for the building was secured.” [end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who
represents a South Florida congressional district.

That idiotic Negress, Frederica Wilson, was called an "empty
barrel" (which make the loudest noise). She looked it up in
a dictionary and stated that "empty barrel" is *racist*. What
a racist asshole!
For more info, Google <"empty barrel" racist>.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody
names.

Trump did not call her an "empty barrel." It was White House
Chief of Staff John Kelly.
Amazingly, so far in this thread, everyone is only concerned
with the preposition "on" but ignores the stupendous stupidity of
stating that "empty barrel" is *racist*.

I've never herd the phrase empty barrel in this context (or any
context other than a barrel which is empty), so I have no idea if it
is racists. The consensus appears to be that it is not.

Post by CDB
Maybe it says "(pej.)", and she figures that any insult to an
African-American woman is racist and disgusting by, uh,
definition.

She should take pride in the fact that a worthless piece of shit and
disgrace to the uniform like Kelly and the slavish ass-licker Sander
are insulting her. If they were praising her, that would be very
concerning.

Is that the general assessment of him? I had heard he was well-regarded.

I've heard rumours the other one's a Huckabee.

Richard Yates

2017-10-22 12:08:59 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
A US congresswoman is embroiled in a controversy with the
White House Chief of Staff over what he reported she said.
During a series of interviews Friday, Wilson accused Kelly
of lying about her. “He can’t just go on TV and lie on me,”
she said on CNN. “I was not even in Congress in 2009 when
the money for the building was secured.” [end quote]
That "lie on me" grates.
The congresswoman is a Miami-born African-American who
represents a South Florida congressional district.

That idiotic Negress, Frederica Wilson, was called an "empty
barrel" (which make the loudest noise). She looked it up in
a dictionary and stated that "empty barrel" is *racist*. What
a racist asshole!
For more info, Google <"empty barrel" racist>.

Fact is, Rey, that the POTUS should not be calling anybody
names.

Trump did not call her an "empty barrel." It was White House
Chief of Staff John Kelly.
Amazingly, so far in this thread, everyone is only concerned
with the preposition "on" but ignores the stupendous stupidity of
stating that "empty barrel" is *racist*.

I've never herd the phrase empty barrel in this context (or any
context other than a barrel which is empty), so I have no idea if it
is racists. The consensus appears to be that it is not.

Post by CDB
Maybe it says "(pej.)", and she figures that any insult to an
African-American woman is racist and disgusting by, uh,
definition.

She should take pride in the fact that a worthless piece of shit and
disgrace to the uniform like Kelly and the slavish ass-licker Sander
are insulting her. If they were praising her, that would be very
concerning.

Is that the general assessment of him? I had heard he was well-regarded.

Yes, until last week.

Post by CDB
I've heard rumours the other one's a Huckabee.

Afraid so.

Tony Cooper

2017-10-22 13:54:27 UTC

Post by Lewis
She should take pride in the fact that a worthless piece of shit and
disgrace to the uniform like Kelly and the slavish ass-licker Sander
are insulting her. If they were praising her, that would be very
concerning.

Is that the general assessment of him? I had heard he was well-regarded.

Yes, in general he is. His comments on this subject have resulted in
the first real criticism of his WH role.

Huckabee Sanders (I don't think she uses the hyphen) is not as well
regarded, but only because she's just a mouthpiece for Trump. One
doesn't think that *she* is lying when she voices a lie because it's
understood that she's just delivering what she's been told to deliver.

In a brilliant move to avoid criticism and ridicule, and being a
weekly segment on "Saturday Night Live", she comes across as the most
uninteresting person to ever hold the job and seems to treat the press
conferences as an unwelcome chore.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Peter T. Daniels

2017-10-22 18:08:48 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper