Go-Ahead profits hit by Southern strife

Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/southern-rail-turmoil-hits-go-ahead-
profits-9rrtq36j3?shareToken=6a84a9614d3b9d2365fba1b139b6655e>

"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."

From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

--
Roland Perry

Recliner

2017-09-08 17:35:58 UTC

Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/southern-rail-turmoil-hits-go-ahead-
profits-9rrtq36j3?shareToken=6a84a9614d3b9d2365fba1b139b6655e>

"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

--

Roland Perry

2017-09-08 19:42:29 UTC

Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/southern-rail-turmoil-hits-go-ahead-
profits-9rrtq36j3?shareToken=6a84a9614d3b9d2365fba1b139b6655e>

"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

They are struggling to find bidders for many franchises. But apparently
there's still a few gullible foreigners who haven't caught on yet. (eg
Trentinalia).

--
Roland Perry

d***@yahoo.co.uk

2017-09-08 21:17:49 UTC

Post by Recliner
The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

They are struggling to find bidders for many franchises. But apparently
there's still a few gullible foreigners who haven't caught on yet. (eg
Trentinalia).

Perhaps they are learning fast which is why they dropped interest in
Southeastern.

G.Harman

r***@cix.compulink.co.uk

2017-09-08 20:32:01 UTC

Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/southern-rail-turmoil-hits-go-ahead-pro

fits-9rrtq36j3?shareToken=6a84a9614d3b9d2365fba1b139b6655e>

Post by Recliner
"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

Isn't that the unions' objective, to get the franchise handed to DOR,
nationalisation by the back door?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Roland Perry

2017-09-09 09:44:08 UTC

Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/southern-rail-turmoil-hits-go-ahead-pro

fits-9rrtq36j3?shareToken=6a84a9614d3b9d2365fba1b139b6655e>

Post by Recliner
"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

Isn't that the unions' objective, to get the franchise handed to DOR,
nationalisation by the back door?

It's already nationalised by the back door - DfT is in charge and Govia
just run the trains for a fixed fee.

Very little would change if the Govia senior managers were replaced by
DOR senior managers (where would the latter come from, anyway)?

--
Roland Perry

Recliner

2017-09-09 13:54:56 UTC

Post by Recliner
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/southern-rail-turmoil-hits-go-ahead-pro

fits-9rrtq36j3?shareToken=6a84a9614d3b9d2365fba1b139b6655e>

Post by Recliner
"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

Isn't that the unions' objective, to get the franchise handed to DOR,
nationalisation by the back door?

It's already nationalised by the back door - DfT is in charge and Govia
just run the trains for a fixed fee.
Very little would change if the Govia senior managers were replaced by
DOR senior managers (where would the latter come from, anyway)?

Govia, presumably, apart from one or two figureheads?

Roland Perry

2017-09-09 15:13:01 UTC

In message
<1431686656.526657454.023942.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 13:54:56 on Sat, 9 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

Isn't that the unions' objective, to get the franchise handed to DOR,
nationalisation by the back door?

It's already nationalised by the back door - DfT is in charge and Govia
just run the trains for a fixed fee.
Very little would change if the Govia senior managers were replaced by
DOR senior managers (where would the latter come from, anyway)?

Govia, presumably, apart from one or two figureheads?

Do they swap around like that? Have Stagecoach made some of their top
people redundant and sent them off to get jobs with SWR.

I'm thinking here about the people in the parent company, not drones
being TUPEd over from the local franchise.

If everyone to do with running a franchise is TUPEd over, then almost
nothing will ever change. The whole point of swapping parent companies
on renewal is to bring in some new blood.

--
Roland Perry

r***@cix.compulink.co.uk

2017-09-09 18:49:16 UTC

Post by Roland Perry
In message

<1431686656.526657454.023942.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septembe
r.org>, at 13:54:56 on Sat, 9 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

Isn't that the unions' objective, to get the franchise handed to DOR,
nationalisation by the back door?

It's already nationalised by the back door - DfT is in charge and Govia
just run the trains for a fixed fee.
Very little would change if the Govia senior managers were replaced by
DOR senior managers (where would the latter come from, anyway)?

Govia, presumably, apart from one or two figureheads?

Do they swap around like that? Have Stagecoach made some of their top
people redundant and sent them off to get jobs with SWR.
I'm thinking here about the people in the parent company, not drones
being TUPEd over from the local franchise.
If everyone to do with running a franchise is TUPEd over, then almost
nothing will ever change. The whole point of swapping parent
companies on renewal is to bring in some new blood.

You have it right, though there have been exceptions. The Northern MD, Alex
Hynes, did transfer to the new franchise holder there at first though he's
now gone to Scotrail.

And DOR started with Elaine Holt transferring from our very own FCC. She
then brought in her former FCC colleague Karen Boswell to run East Coast.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Recliner

2017-09-10 02:19:25 UTC

Post by Roland Perry
In message

r.org>, at 13:54:56 on Sat, 9 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

Isn't that the unions' objective, to get the franchise handed to DOR,
nationalisation by the back door?

It's already nationalised by the back door - DfT is in charge and Govia
just run the trains for a fixed fee.
Very little would change if the Govia senior managers were replaced by
DOR senior managers (where would the latter come from, anyway)?

Govia, presumably, apart from one or two figureheads?

Do they swap around like that? Have Stagecoach made some of their top
people redundant and sent them off to get jobs with SWR.
I'm thinking here about the people in the parent company, not drones
being TUPEd over from the local franchise.
If everyone to do with running a franchise is TUPEd over, then almost
nothing will ever change. The whole point of swapping parent
companies on renewal is to bring in some new blood.

You have it right, though there have been exceptions. The Northern MD, Alex
Hynes, did transfer to the new franchise holder there at first though he's
now gone to Scotrail.
And DOR started with Elaine Holt transferring from our very own FCC. She
then brought in her former FCC colleague Karen Boswell to run East Coast.

But below them, where did the other senior DOR managers come from when it
was running EC? I suspect most were from NXEC. After all, DOR had no
permanent operational staff, while NXEC had people who were no longer
needed by NX, but had exactly the right experience that DOR needed to run
EC.

Roland Perry

2017-09-10 09:20:41 UTC

In message
<1728881909.526702404.788032.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 02:19:25 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
If everyone to do with running a franchise is TUPEd over, then almost
nothing will ever change. The whole point of swapping parent
companies on renewal is to bring in some new blood.

You have it right, though there have been exceptions. The Northern MD, Alex
Hynes, did transfer to the new franchise holder there at first though he's
now gone to Scotrail.
And DOR started with Elaine Holt transferring from our very own FCC. She
then brought in her former FCC colleague Karen Boswell to run East Coast.

But they are implementers, not policy-makers.

--
Roland Perry

Recliner

2017-09-10 14:46:47 UTC

Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org>, at 02:19:25 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

You have it right, though there have been exceptions. The Northern MD, Alex
Hynes, did transfer to the new franchise holder there at first though he's
now gone to Scotrail.
And DOR started with Elaine Holt transferring from our very own FCC. She
then brought in her former FCC colleague Karen Boswell to run East Coast.

But they are implementers, not policy-makers.

Yes, particularly where DOR was concerned: Adonis was the policy maker.

Roland Perry

2017-09-10 15:36:17 UTC

In message
<1326927602.526747419.718479.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 14:46:47 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

You have it right, though there have been exceptions. The Northern MD, Alex
Hynes, did transfer to the new franchise holder there at first though he's
now gone to Scotrail.
And DOR started with Elaine Holt transferring from our very own FCC. She
then brought in her former FCC colleague Karen Boswell to run East Coast.

But they are implementers, not policy-makers.

Yes, particularly where DOR was concerned: Adonis was the policy maker.

I don't know to what extent he micro-managed the policymaking, rather
than delegating it to Holt and her teleported-in senior team.

For example, did he decide specifically to scrap the restaurant cars, or
was that just collateral damage of a policy to "balance the books,
however unpopular"?

--
Roland Perry

Recliner

2017-09-10 17:10:39 UTC

Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org>, at 14:46:47 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

You have it right, though there have been exceptions. The Northern MD, Alex
Hynes, did transfer to the new franchise holder there at first though he's
now gone to Scotrail.
And DOR started with Elaine Holt transferring from our very own FCC. She
then brought in her former FCC colleague Karen Boswell to run East Coast.

But they are implementers, not policy-makers.

Yes, particularly where DOR was concerned: Adonis was the policy maker.

I don't know to what extent he micro-managed the policymaking, rather
than delegating it to Holt and her teleported-in senior team.
For example, did he decide specifically to scrap the restaurant cars, or
was that just collateral damage of a policy to "balance the books,
however unpopular"?

I had thought that had already happened before DOR took over, but I think
you're right, it was DOR that done it.

<http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/east-coast-anger-as-yorkshire-rail-dining-is-axed-1-3083684>

NX had previously axed restaurant cars on MML and Anglia, and probably
would have done so on EC had it kept the franchise long enough to do so.

I think it was Adonis who instructed that free food and drinks be provided
to First pax instead, similar to Virgin's WC offering.

Roland Perry

2017-09-10 17:49:02 UTC

In message
<1703374611.526755733.158463.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 17:10:39 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
But they are implementers, not policy-makers.

Yes, particularly where DOR was concerned: Adonis was the policy maker.

I don't know to what extent he micro-managed the policymaking, rather
than delegating it to Holt and her teleported-in senior team.
For example, did he decide specifically to scrap the restaurant cars, or
was that just collateral damage of a policy to "balance the books,
however unpopular"?

I had thought that had already happened before DOR took over, but I think
you're right, it was DOR that done it.
<http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/east-coast-anger-as-yorkshire-rail-dining-is-axed-1-3083684>
NX had previously axed restaurant cars on MML and Anglia, and probably
would have done so on EC had it kept the franchise long enough to do so.

I don't know when they last had fully functioning restaurant cars but
Midland Mainline's service was terrible when I started using them in
2005. While they did have a "bistro" type paid-for food offering, they
never solicited orders and all they wanted to do was offer free drinks
and snacks. Only south of Derby when on a down service.

When EMT inherited the franchise they still operated a "First with
Breakfast" ticket, but the staffing for the restaurant and buffets was
in crisis and they ended up shuttling catering crews between either
Market Harborough and London, or Derby and London.

It didn't help that EMT didn't want the newly arrived POS/credit card
machines, so for a while they only accepted cash, and receipts were
written on the back of a napkin.

Not sure when EMT threw in the towel completely, but they are
Stagecoach, not NX.

I know nothing about the Anglia catering service.

Post by Recliner
I think it was Adonis who instructed that free food and drinks be provided
to First pax instead, similar to Virgin's WC offering.

The free "food" is pretty pathetic, even more so at weekends.

--
Roland Perry

Recliner

2017-09-10 18:23:04 UTC

Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org>, at 17:10:39 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
But they are implementers, not policy-makers.

Yes, particularly where DOR was concerned: Adonis was the policy maker.

I don't know to what extent he micro-managed the policymaking, rather
than delegating it to Holt and her teleported-in senior team.
For example, did he decide specifically to scrap the restaurant cars, or
was that just collateral damage of a policy to "balance the books,
however unpopular"?

I had thought that had already happened before DOR took over, but I think
you're right, it was DOR that done it.
<http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/east-coast-anger-as-yorkshire-rail-dining-is-axed-1-3083684>
NX had previously axed restaurant cars on MML and Anglia, and probably
would have done so on EC had it kept the franchise long enough to do so.

I don't know when they last had fully functioning restaurant cars but
Midland Mainline's service was terrible when I started using them in
2005. While they did have a "bistro" type paid-for food offering, they
never solicited orders and all they wanted to do was offer free drinks
and snacks. Only south of Derby when on a down service.
When EMT inherited the franchise they still operated a "First with
Breakfast" ticket, but the staffing for the restaurant and buffets was
in crisis and they ended up shuttling catering crews between either
Market Harborough and London, or Derby and London.
It didn't help that EMT didn't want the newly arrived POS/credit card
machines, so for a while they only accepted cash, and receipts were
written on the back of a napkin.
Not sure when EMT threw in the towel completely, but they are
Stagecoach, not NX.

I thought the restaurant cars had been cut before Stagecoach took over from
NX?

Post by Roland Perry
I know nothing about the Anglia catering service.

Post by Recliner
I think it was Adonis who instructed that free food and drinks be provided
to First pax instead, similar to Virgin's WC offering.

The free "food" is pretty pathetic, even more so at weekends.

Yup. Has it changed much since VTEC took over from EC? My first weekday
experience of it will be in a couple of weeks.

Roland Perry

2017-09-10 19:09:59 UTC

In message
<446653097.526760351.798252.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 18:23:04 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
Not sure when EMT threw in the towel completely, but they are
Stagecoach, not NX.

I thought the restaurant cars had been cut before Stagecoach took over from
NX?

May depend on your definition I'm including trains with a kitchen car,
serving at-seat in First Class. Not a car where you move to for the
meal, then move back to your seat.

Post by Roland Perry
I know nothing about the Anglia catering service.

Post by Recliner
I think it was Adonis who instructed that free food and drinks be provided
to First pax instead, similar to Virgin's WC offering.

The free "food" is pretty pathetic, even more so at weekends.

Yup. Has it changed much since VTEC took over from EC? My first weekday
experience of it will be in a couple of weeks.

I don't know if "Please note, we don't serve hot food or alcohol at the
weekend or on bank holidays" is worse than before; and the "Evening"
menu is somewhat restricted in terms of which trains[1].

The daytime hot food they offer looks much the same. Breakfast was
beyond rubbery, and we had to insist on getting one boarding at
Peterborough as they clearly thought it was for Kings Cross starters
only. And of course the time limit means a KGX-PBO passenger doesn't
qualify. Weekend sandwiches were very poor quality. More Tesco than M&S.

Not convinced where they get the locally-sourced rice, spices, pistachio
nuts etc (unless they mean at a local cash and carry).

[1] "these trains from King’s Cross: 1700, 1719, 1730, 1733, 1800,
1803, 1819, 1830, 1833, 1900." No southbound ones.

--
Roland Perry

Recliner

2017-09-10 20:34:48 UTC

Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 18:23:04 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
Not sure when EMT threw in the towel completely, but they are
Stagecoach, not NX.

I thought the restaurant cars had been cut before Stagecoach took over from
NX?

May depend on your definition I'm including trains with a kitchen car,
serving at-seat in First Class. Not a car where you move to for the
meal, then move back to your seat.

Yes, I meant a separate dining car, now I think only offered on a few GWR
services.

Post by Roland Perry
I know nothing about the Anglia catering service.

Post by Recliner
I think it was Adonis who instructed that free food and drinks be provided
to First pax instead, similar to Virgin's WC offering.

The free "food" is pretty pathetic, even more so at weekends.

Yup. Has it changed much since VTEC took over from EC? My first weekday
experience of it will be in a couple of weeks.

I don't know if "Please note, we don't serve hot food or alcohol at the
weekend or on bank holidays" is worse than before; and the "Evening"
menu is somewhat restricted in terms of which trains[1].
The daytime hot food they offer looks much the same. Breakfast was
beyond rubbery, and we had to insist on getting one boarding at
Peterborough as they clearly thought it was for Kings Cross starters
only. And of course the time limit means a KGX-PBO passenger doesn't
qualify. Weekend sandwiches were very poor quality. More Tesco than M&S.
Not convinced where they get the locally-sourced rice, spices, pistachio
nuts etc (unless they mean at a local cash and carry).
[1] "these trains from King’s Cross: 1700, 1719, 1730, 1733, 1800,
1803, 1819, 1830, 1833, 1900." No southbound ones.

Roland Perry

2017-09-11 07:18:03 UTC

In message
<1443255014.526764113.566646.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 20:34:48 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
Not sure when EMT threw in the towel completely, but they are
Stagecoach, not NX.

I thought the restaurant cars had been cut before Stagecoach took over from
NX?

May depend on your definition I'm including trains with a kitchen car,
serving at-seat in First Class. Not a car where you move to for the
meal, then move back to your seat.

Yes, I meant a separate dining car, now I think only offered on a few GWR
services.

That's not the main economic driver (for withdrawal) though - which is
the kitchen car, chefs, supply of non-microwave meals, and so on.

--
Roland Perry

Recliner

2017-09-10 17:38:53 UTC

Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org>, at 14:46:47 on Sun, 10 Sep 2017, Recliner

You have it right, though there have been exceptions. The Northern MD, Alex
Hynes, did transfer to the new franchise holder there at first though he's
now gone to Scotrail.
And DOR started with Elaine Holt transferring from our very own FCC. She
then brought in her former FCC colleague Karen Boswell to run East Coast.

But they are implementers, not policy-makers.

Yes, particularly where DOR was concerned: Adonis was the policy maker.

I don't know to what extent he micro-managed the policymaking, rather
than delegating it to Holt and her teleported-in senior team.
For example, did he decide specifically to scrap the restaurant cars, or
was that just collateral damage of a policy to "balance the books,
however unpopular"?

Another thought strikes me: I wonder if Adonis's enthusiasm for kicking out
NX rather than renegotiating was partly driven by his desire to pull the
strings on a TOC himself? No doubt he thought a DOR answerable to him
would be more controllable than a private TOC, and he wanted to show that
he could do a better job when in direct control.

Roland Perry

2017-09-10 09:19:20 UTC

Post by Roland Perry
It's already nationalised by the back door - DfT is in charge and Govia
just run the trains for a fixed fee.
Very little would change if the Govia senior managers were replaced by
DOR senior managers (where would the latter come from, anyway)?

Govia, presumably, apart from one or two figureheads?

Do they swap around like that? Have Stagecoach made some of their top
people redundant and sent them off to get jobs with SWR.
I'm thinking here about the people in the parent company, not drones
being TUPEd over from the local franchise.
If everyone to do with running a franchise is TUPEd over, then almost
nothing will ever change. The whole point of swapping parent
companies on renewal is to bring in some new blood.

You have it right, though there have been exceptions. The Northern MD, Alex
Hynes, did transfer to the new franchise holder there at first though he's
now gone to Scotrail.
And DOR started with Elaine Holt transferring from our very own FCC. She
then brought in her former FCC colleague Karen Boswell to run East Coast.

No doubt senior persons from National Express HQ would have not been
invited to interview for those positions. Blotted copybook and all that.

--
Roland Perry

Recliner

2017-09-10 15:11:09 UTC

Post by Roland Perry
In message

r.org>, at 13:54:56 on Sat, 9 Sep 2017, Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

Isn't that the unions' objective, to get the franchise handed to DOR,
nationalisation by the back door?

It's already nationalised by the back door - DfT is in charge and Govia
just run the trains for a fixed fee.
Very little would change if the Govia senior managers were replaced by
DOR senior managers (where would the latter come from, anyway)?

Govia, presumably, apart from one or two figureheads?

Do they swap around like that? Have Stagecoach made some of their top
people redundant and sent them off to get jobs with SWR.
I'm thinking here about the people in the parent company, not drones
being TUPEd over from the local franchise.
If everyone to do with running a franchise is TUPEd over, then almost
nothing will ever change. The whole point of swapping parent
companies on renewal is to bring in some new blood.

You have it right, though there have been exceptions. The Northern MD, Alex
Hynes, did transfer to the new franchise holder there at first though he's
now gone to Scotrail.
And DOR started with Elaine Holt transferring from our very own FCC. She
then brought in her former FCC colleague Karen Boswell to run East Coast.

Karen Boswell, of course, is now MD of Hitachi Europe, which is supplying
her former employers (GWR and what's now VTEC) with their new intercity
fleets.

r***@cix.compulink.co.uk

2017-09-09 18:49:16 UTC

In article
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/southern-rail-turmoil-hits-go-ahead-profi
ts-9rrtq36j3?shareToken=6a84a9614d3b9d2365fba1b139b6655e>

Post by Roland Perry
"It forecast that margins would reach up to 1.5 per cent."
From an orderly queue to take on this vastly lucrative business!

The DfT might struggle to find any bidders for SN when the
franchise is next tendered. It's become a real poisoned chalice.

Isn't that the unions' objective, to get the franchise handed to DOR,
nationalisation by the back door?

It's already nationalised by the back door - DfT is in charge and
Govia just run the trains for a fixed fee.
Very little would change if the Govia senior managers were replaced
by DOR senior managers (where would the latter come from, anyway)?

Govia, presumably, apart from one or two figureheads?

Precisely. But try telling the RMT in particular that! Mind you, their
agenda isn't just GTR. They have Merseytravel and Northern in their sights
too.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

r***@cix.compulink.co.uk

2017-09-10 19:16:06 UTC

In article

Post by Roland Perry
In message
september.org>, at 13:54:56 on Sat, 9 Sep 2017, Recliner