Dear Gabriel,
OK, I won't post here anymore since I'm not welcome.
I'm just a little surprised some can tell things that are terribly hurtful
and agressive (and just false) without any problem and that I'm supposed to
be silenced because my wife is on the board.
Violence is really a problem we have to deal with in our communities and
I'm afraid this shows the solution is yet to be found.
Thus, I would love to discuss things with you (why "critical of the ED" ?
More largely, why can't an ED stay more than a few years in any chapter?
Isn't there a general issue between some members and employees?) but it
won't be on this list - you know where to find me if you please - but I
guess you won't since it's "maneuvering" and no good faith will be assumed
:-/
The last few lines one more time makes people think the chapter was and is
not professional. Managing several employees and an important budget, the
chapter has always worked consulting lawyers and respecting the law ad
litteram. I'm not even talking about medicals doctors, who also have
opinions, alas, on what happens :-/
So, this will be my last message on the subject, leaving the ground to...
always the same people.
Best
Rémi
On 3 August 2017 at 14:02, Gabriel Thullen <***@thullen.com> wrote:
> I will bi going to the September 9 GA, and for the moment I still am a
> member of Wikimedia France.
> I am posting here in spite of the risk, because I want to set a few things
> straight.
>
> 25% of the French chapter asked for this GA knowing full well that the
> annual GA was scheduled a month later in October. A few of the most vocal
> opponents have been expelled from the chapter, some of them for failure to
> pay their dues before the deadline. Other active French wikipedians have
> had their admission refused. In spite of all that, a quarter of the members
> asked to hold this extra GA. I my experience, this is a serious crisis and
> the current French chapter leadership cannot ignore that fact.
>
> We cannot immediately qualify any dissenting as "aggressive behavior" or
> "harassment". It has become quite impossible for current members to express
> their views for fear of being expelled from the chapter, or being accused
> of harassing the chapter president or senior staff - I do make a
> distinction between the ED and the staff who are having a hard time and who
> work under the risk of being fired if they refuse to obey orders (like what
> has just happened to Jules). We all are very appreciative and thankful for
> the work done by the "employees", we are quite critical of the ED.
>
> Florence is quite right about being concerned about the very sudden
> increase in membership, and I fully suspect that these new members will be
> at the GA in September. Before being involved in Wikimedia, I was quite
> involved in labor unions (and still am), so I have seen this type of
> maneuvering before. It makes me quite sad to see this happen to a Wikimedia
> Chapter, but that is probably because I am much too much of an idealist.
>
> I will quote Rémi Mathis:
> "This is a few people, for various reasons, usualy very personal and very
> bad ones. And those people refuse to acknowledge reality, even when the
> board explains everything, even when lawyers explains what can and cannot
> be done within a chapter.
>
> I'm really worried about the behaviour of those people, and the future of
> Wikimedia France - since the harassment could lead to prosecution from
> employees."
>
> For one, I think that Rémi should steer clear of this type of discussion,
> because he has a very clear COI. Sorry Rémi, you are not an "ordinary
> member".
> Now what really disturbs me is that Rémi tries to discredit the members who
> are asking for a GA by implying that they have an agenda, that they are
> very few, and that they "refuse to acknowledge reality". As a labor union
> leader, I have had exactly the same accusations leveled at me. And I hope
> that Rémi knows what he is talking about when he speaks of harassment,
> because I have never experienced a case where one of the labor unions I
> worked with had to pay a company executive compensation for "harassment".
>
> Best regards
> Gabe
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Rémi Mathis <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is typically the kind agressive behaviour we don't need right now.
> > Everybody in the chapter knows that Marie-Alice Mathis and Rémi Mathis
> are
> > wife and husband, it has always been clearly stated and we always refused
> > to be at the board at the same time to avoid conflicts of interest.
> >
> > Now what? Do you think I can't have opinions of my own because I'm not a
> > member of the board, or she can't have because she's a manipulated woman?
> > We are *two individuals* and we do have *two brains*. This kind of
> > allegations are not acceptable and the smugness of "Nuff said" really
> > hurtful!
> >
> > I am an ordinary member... but I think I have a certain experience of
> > what's going on
> > 1/ as a long-time member of the board (2009-2014) and chair (2011-2014),
> > who hired most of the employees, managed them, organized a lot of what
> made
> > Wikimedia France one of the biggest and most sucessful chapters... and a
> > member still really involved in the life of the community
> > 2/ as someone, yes, who sees her wife spending hours every night, trying
> to
> > explain things to people who don't want to hear or understand. Like, you
> > know, when you ask a question about a fact, I answer to you with a
> > *checkable fact*. And you answer "I don't agree" (not even "it's not
> true",
> > because everybody could check that, but "I don't agree")...
> >
> > I can't even understand why you post things like at all, but even less on
> > an international list where people don't know what happens and, for most
> of
> > them, can't read French.
> > This really makes me sad and frustrated
> >
> > Rémi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3 August 2017 at 12:47, Devouard (gmail) <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And for the sake of proper understanding... Rémi Mathis is the husband
> of
> > > the current vice-chair of Wikimedia France.
> > >
> > > Nuff said.
> > >
> > >
> > > Florence
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le 03/08/2017 à 12:17, Rémi Mathis a écrit :
> > >
> > >> Dear all,
> > >>
> > >> As a member - and former chair - of Wikimedia France, this kind of
> > message
> > >> really hurts my feelings and I still wonder why they can be posted on
> > >> international mailing lists.
> > >> We are supposed to act as responsible adults and work together so that
> > the
> > >> chapters can manage projects... and I keep thinking we are pretty good
> > at
> > >> it.
> > >>
> > >> I don't want to read "shame", "false statement", "use Louise passing",
> > >> "uncollaborative way".
> > >> Both because it's a very agressive way to talk to human beings,
> because
> > >> it's misleading people about what's going on, and because it's simply
> > not
> > >> true.
> > >>
> > >> A few French wkipedians are not happy with the board and some of the
> > >> employees. They are about 25-30% of Wikimedia France members and asked
> > for
> > >> a General Meeting - which will take place in September.
> > >> Some of their concerns can be understood, but some of those
> wikipedians
> > >> began to accuse the board of squandering money without any ground for
> it
> > >> (there have been two audits within the past few years and all the
> > >> accounts/expenses are audited yearly, published and commented to the
> > >> members), to go and see former employee's bosses to stalk them, to
> > spread
> > >> rumours on their sexuality, to report members of the board to their
> own
> > >> boss etc. This is going mad. Really mad.
> > >>
> > >> This is not "the community", Pierre-Selim, I'm sorry.
> > >> This is a few people, for various reasons, usualy very personal and
> very
> > >> bad ones. And those people refuse to acknowledge reality, even when
> the
> > >> board explains everything, even when lawyers explains what can and
> > cannot
> > >> be done within a chapter.
> > >>
> > >> I'm really worried about the behaviour of those people, and the future
> > of
> > >> Wikimedia France - since the harassment could lead to prosecution from
> > >> employees.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >>
> > >> Rémi
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> From: Pierre-Selim <pierre-***@huard.info>
> > >>> Date: 2 August 2017 at 20:09
> > >>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Wikimédia France
> > >>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-***@lists.wikimedia.org>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> The passing of Louise is really sad :(
> > >>>
> > >>> On the other fronts, Edouard it feels like you're not telling things
> > the
> > >>> way
> > >>> they really are.
> > >>>
> > >>> "The board acknowledge..." means the board has been forced to a new
> AGM
> > >>> by
> > >>> 25%
> > >>> of the member. Our bylaws dictate that.
> > >>>
> > >>> The board has published a shameful "Right of reply" [1], full of
> > >>> inexact/false
> > >>> statements that are on the same line than the email sent by the board
> > >>> on July 11th (and shared here by Chris [2]).
> > >>> This Right of reply even "use" Louise passing ... For shame!
> > >>>
> > >>> In an uncollaborative way, the board has not listen to the
> > >>> community/member
> > >>> for
> > >>> the agenda which forces the members to a new vote [3] to add items to
> > the
> > >>> agenda
> > >>> ... during the summer ... and Wikimania.
> > >>>
> > >>> I hope the board will have again to "Acknowlege" the voice of the
> > >>> community,
> > >>> but I wish we did not had to go this way.
> > >>>
> > >>> I am truly ashamed of this board,
> > >>>
> > >>> [1] https://www.mathisbenguigui.eu/wikimedia-timeline/droitderep
> > >>> onse.html
> > >>> [2] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-July/
> > >>> 088008.html
> > >>> [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimédia_France/
> > >>> Assemblée_générale/septembre_2017/Points_à_ajouter_à_l'ordre_du_jour
> > >>>
> > >>> 2017-07-26 17:56 GMT+02:00 Yaroslav Blanter <***@gmail.com>:
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes, I figured this out, thanks. Now copyediting.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cheers
> > >>>> Yaroslav
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 5:51 PM, Natacha Rault <***@me.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> probably me...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Le 26 juil. 2017 à 17:49, Yaroslav Blanter <***@gmail.com> a
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> écrit
> > >>>
> > >>>> :
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Actually, after Catherine's mail, an English article was started
> by
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> someone
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> I can not recognize from the username.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Merzeau
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Cheers
> > >>>>>> Yaroslav
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 2:38 PM, Katherine Maher <
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> ***@wikimedia.org
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Dear Édouard and our other colleagues at Wikimédia France,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> We are sorry to hear about the passing of Mrs. Louise Merzeau.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> While I
> > >>>
> > >>>> did
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> not have a chance to meet her, I understand she was an advocate
> for
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Commons movement and a leading academic on digital identities and
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> the
> > >>>
> > >>>> relationship between technology and culture. I suspect we would have
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> gotten
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> along well.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Although she did not get to share her knowledge longer, we are
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> grateful
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> for
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> the contributions she made. I have no doubt Wikimedia would have
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> benefited
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> greatly from her continued advocacy.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I recognize with everything that is going on, an event like this
> > can
> > >>>>>>> quickly pass by without enough notice and tribute from all of us.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> However,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> I hope we can pause to recognize that, above all, we are people
> who
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> have
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> come together under a shared vision for a better future. The
> passion
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> bond that unites us are much stronger than any disagreements or
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> challenges.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Louise was a part of that vision, and we owe it to her to
> recognize
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> her
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> passing.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation, please know that she is in
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> our
> > >>>
> > >>>> thoughts and that the community has our condolences.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Katherine
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> PS. I encourage you to learn more about Mrs. Merzeau and her life
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> from
> > >>>
> > >>>> her
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> article on French Wikipedia: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Louise_Merzeau
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >>>>>>>
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> > >>>
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> > >>>>>>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >>>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-***@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ma
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ilman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > >>>
> > >>>> ,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-***@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsu
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> bscribe>
> > >>>
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> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>>>>
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> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Pierre-Selim
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>>
> > >>>
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