Post by Altroy1"Yellow" wrote in message All the EU have to say is that UK folk
living in the EU can stay and
this whole issue would be resolve - for everyone - as the UK will
reciprocate.
In other words: the EU should blink first.
Nobody's asking anybody to blink first. Just reach a negotiated agreement.
Once again the Remainers sink to using tendentious , emotive words to
obfuscate the argument.
Emotive words? You know. Words like
Who gives a shit about Mrs May's reputation
among the ordinary folk of the EU?
Apart from you, here?
Which words might play on emotion, shit perhaps?
Or "among the ordinary folk" (the word ordinary = innuendo)
Then there is this
Exactly and if she gives way to the loonies
and say that the EU citizens can stay, she
has lost all clout to keep our own people safe!
Loonies (insult) lost all clout(emotional) keep our own people(tribal)
our own people safe(suggests the EU is the threat and exit the solution).
To be fair, immigration is a legitimate concern. I wrote nothing here in
support of unrestricted immigration though if you oppose free for all
immigration you might want to also oppose the zero hours casualisation
of the workforce. However people who rail at "Eastern Europeans" but sit
back, relax and remain mute as swans as permanent jobs are allowed to
fade and zero hours contracts brought in as a substitute might have a
small degree of hypocrisy.
What I have written is that free movement is a separate issue to EU
membership and there is not and was not a referendum on that matter.
Perhaps this is because while there is a vested interest to repatriate
powers from the wicked EU there isnt the same vested interest amongst
the powerful to stop free movement. In fact the concept of free movement
gels quite nicely with the Adam Smith brigade who quite like the idea of
the market with its invisible hand to guide all things. The elite worry
about getting a cheap Polish plumber. Meanwhile the working class wory
about finding affordable housing.
Post by Altroy1The voteleavetakecontrol brigade said let's take back control but
there is no taking back control of the EU member states policy on any
persons living in their jurisdiction who are not nationals of an EU
member state.
Nobody ever suggested we should "take back" control of other countries'
policies. Just negotiate with them as all governments do.
There was a debate in the HoL where one side thought that declaring
(perhaps pre 23 June) EU citizens residency rights and another view was
not do that as it will weaken our bargaining position. It is dificult
for any of us not professional negotiators to really determine what is
really the best strategy, but it is not illegitimate to consider that
one strategy could appear to be treating recent EU UK residents status
as something to be bargained with - and that might appear to be acting
how Mrs May's "the nasty party" might once have acted.
Once again you misrepresent your opponents' argument by lying and
distortions. Sorry you can't debate honestly.
Calling someone a liar like that = bad journalism. Claiming to have a
window into someone's soul is an extrordinary claim. You don't have a
window into my soul despite your pretention. Apparently to some
beLEAVERs anyone with a different view must be ignorant or worse:
I just can't believe how simple it is,
but apparently too simple for the remoaners.
It makes you wonder what they have in their heads
.. if anything!
[...]
Post by Altroy1It isn't Mrs May's fault unless Mrs May was part of the
voteleavetakecontrol/Adam Smith/NO2AV/Business for Britain alliance
which it appears she wasn't. If votelavetakecontrol breaks it then
they should own it.
Once again you are raving about these mythical, all-powerful
"voteleavetakecontrol" eminence grises. Listen: Nobody gives a *fuck*
about them, whoever they are, or were. They are figments of your fevered
imagination.
Not just my imagination.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4269370/Ukip-s-MP-held-secret-talks-rejoining-Tories.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3834471/Ukip-s-millionaire-donor-Arron-Banks-set-private-DETECTIVES-Vote-Leave-chief-stir-paranoia-rival-Brexit-campaigns.html
Post by Altroy1Post by Ian JacksonShe
appears to be oblivious that this is getting us a bad reputation among
the ordinary people of Europe -
Who gives a shit about Mrs May's reputation among the ordinary folk of
the EU? Apart from you, here?
Anyone that thinks there should be good faith negotiations with 27
other countries might give a shit.
Her job is too look after UK citizen.
Which might not mean telling the rest of the world to FK off.
More lies. The UK has not done that.
No and I never wrote,implied or tried to imply the UK negotiators did.
What I did was paraphrase (you may think wrongly) the attitude of
certain uk.legal posters. It is the attitude of certain posters in this
group insulting remainers that suggests (sometimes) that not only that
the rest of the world FK off but that if you're not a leaver you should
FK off as well.
Post by Altroy1That would be rather strange. The last time I checked countries that
built walls to keep away Johnny Foreigner
More lies. The UK has not done that.
Not a lie because I made no such suggestion. What I did was draw an
analogy with countries that in the past adopted isolation. I will give
the benefit of the doubt and accept that the current Ministry for
exiting the EU are not negotiating isolation. My comment of course was
in reply in this newsgroup where there might be an attitude of isolation
among some that post here.
Post by Altroy1======
Exactly and if she gives way to the loonies and say that the EU
citizens can stay, she has lost all clout to keep our own people safe!
Nobody is safe unless they find some sort of coccoon somewhere where
their every breath and heartbeat can be monitored night and day until
they croak.
Sheer maundering stupidity.
Sheer maundering stupidity is all this uk.legal posted stuff about
exiting the EU keeping us safe what with free movement and globalisation
free market economics & so on being completely unaffected by exit EU.
Post by Altroy1I just can't believe how simple it is, but apparently too simple for
the remoaners.
The beLEAVErs had a simple solution. Exit the EU. All problems solved.
As simple as ABC. But? Migration. Supported by vested interests. Among
those could be the business alliance for Britain that just might like
to continue the idea of zero hours contracts and Eastern European
workers galore. Want to stop Estern Europe migration? Then obviously a
referendum on free movement. A referendum vote to stop free movement
could have forced EU exit, if the EU refused to change its policy. As
it is, a vote to exit the EU does not either force nor imply an end to
cheap EU labour nor the vested interests that continue to support
migration and zero hours agency workers.
Ah, it's the voteleavetakecontrol world dominators again. Led by Ernst
Stavro Blofeld and the Bilderberg group.
The Lib Dems came along to negotitate with these people. No need to call
upon the recollection of a good historian to demonstrate how they were
comprehensively outsmarted. As was the AV campaign. At one point more
than 60% ahead in the polls. Utterly destroyed in a relatively short period.