Weaknesses of the Singapore Education System

[h***@gmail.com]

Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education System.
These are:

1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.

2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.

3. They lack social skills. Many just don't know how to handle themselves in a social gathering or setting. They lack the social graces, simple human decency like politeness. They lack humane values.

[TheInquirer]

Post by h***@gmail.com
Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA

you mean "pecah"?


but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education
System.

Post by h***@gmail.com
1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.

what about skills in asking questions?

[Zanzibar]

Post by h***@gmail.com
Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education System.
1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.
2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.
3. They lack social skills. Many just don't know how to handle themselves in a social gathering or setting. They lack the social graces, simple human decency like politeness. They lack humane values.

Totally agreed. I agree with your views. There should be ministry to look into the matter.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
Totally agreed. I agree with your views. There should be ministry to look into the matter.

*gasp*! what if the maids lose their jobs? who is going to do their
homework for them?

[auwe digidauw]

Post by Zanzibar
Totally agreed. I agree with your views. There should be ministry to look into the matter.

I second that.

I encountered several singaporean fresh graduate colleagues,

and yes they somewhat performed ackwardly when socializing with

others

[auwe digidauw]

Post by h***@gmail.com
2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but
cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the
reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore
Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how
to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.

singaporeans are spoiled brats

with such luxury life style they still complain and whine 24/7


just look at this newsgroup

no wonder even cooking instant noodle is a big troublesome to them

[baldeagle]

Post by h***@gmail.com
Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education System.
1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.
2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.
3. They lack social skills. Many just don't know how to handle themselves in a social gathering or setting. They lack the social graces, simple human decency like politeness. They lack humane values.

-----

You don't know what you are talking about. You talk bad about our brainy students...because you are JEALOUS...because you have a pin head of a brain. (Your post proved beyond a doubt that you don't have a smart brain)

Yes. The students who originally attended Chinese schools are not fluent in English....awkward when speaking English. However, they can speak very fluently in Mandarin. As long as they can communicate with others adequately, either in English or Chinese, what's the big deal! In NUS, in NTU and in A*Star, Mandarin is spoken more commonly than English.
Students educated in English school are good English speaker ...and as shown in TV debates...they are as good as any native English speaker.

Native English speakers who can talk as well as a car salesmen are shown to be NOT as well educated as Singaporeans.

What is the need to cook instant noodle and fold a blanket when we have maids to do the job for us !!! What is the need for Singaporeans to be a garbage man or a construction worker when we can use our time better ... be a brain surgeon or a banker.

[auwe digidauw]

Post by baldeagle
What is the need to cook instant noodle and fold a blanket when we
have maids to do the job for us !!!

fine !! but dont complain and whine the next time another flock

of mediocre indians take offer all your banking jobs


dont expect to get the prize

if you are not ready to pay the price

[baldeagle]

Post by auwe digidauw

Post by baldeagle
What is the need to cook instant noodle and fold a blanket when we
have maids to do the job for us !!!

fine !! but dont complain and whine the next time another flock
of mediocre indians take offer all your banking jobs

Getting maids to do domestic chores and low lever labourers to do dirty jobs us ...are good policies... Singaporean are then free to enjoy good life.

Giving good paying banking jobs to Indians (poorly qualified) when there are much better qualified Singaporeans... is BAD policies...very very bad.

Besides, these Indians pollute our place...with their body odour (stale curry smelling sweat)everywhere they go...with their mannerism and bad culture (they bring with them the caste system type of behaviours)...they make our parks, our gardens, our children playground overcrowded...they make our Bus overcrowded... they make our apartment more expensive...they do not serve in our armed forces...it is like a army of beggars and untouchables from India has invaded our nice HDB heartland.

When something is seriously WRONG...we have the right to voice our feeling, our anger.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by baldeagle

Post by h***@gmail.com
Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education System.
1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.
2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.
3. They lack social skills. Many just don't know how to handle themselves in a social gathering or setting. They lack the social graces, simple human decency like politeness. They lack humane values.

-----
You don't know what you are talking about. You talk bad about our brainy students...because you are JEALOUS...because you have a pin head of a brain. (Your post proved beyond a doubt that you don't have a smart brain)
Yes. The students who originally attended Chinese schools are not fluent in English....awkward when speaking English. However, they can speak very fluently in Mandarin. As long as they can communicate with others adequately, either in English or Chinese, what's the big deal! In NUS, in NTU and in A*Star, Mandarin is spoken more commonly than English.
Students educated in English school are good English speaker ...and as shown in TV debates...they are as good as any native English speaker.
Native English speakers who can talk as well as a car salesmen are shown to be NOT as well educated as Singaporeans.
What is the need to cook instant noodle and fold a blanket when we have maids to do the job for us !!! What is the need for Singaporeans to be a garbage man or a construction worker when we can use our time better ... be a brain surgeon or a banker.

Of course our Singapore Students are much better than an underage fucker like u from the KL slums.

[baldeagle]

Post by baldeagle

Post by h***@gmail.com
Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education System.
1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.
2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.
3. They lack social skills. Many just don't know how to handle themselves in a social gathering or setting. They lack the social graces, simple human decency like politeness. They lack humane values.

You don't know what you are talking about. You talk bad about our brainy students...because you are JEALOUS...because you have a pin head of a brain. (Your post proved beyond a doubt that you don't have a smart brain)
Yes. The students who originally attended Chinese schools are not fluent in English....awkward when speaking English. However, they can speak very fluently in Mandarin. As long as they can communicate with others adequately, either in English or Chinese, what's the big deal! In NUS, in NTU and in A*Star, Mandarin is spoken more commonly than English.
Students educated in English school are good English speaker ...and as shown in TV debates...they are as good as any native English speaker.
Native English speakers who can talk as well as a car salesmen are shown to be NOT as well educated as Singaporeans.
What is the need to cook instant noodle and fold a blanket when we have maids to do the job for us !!! What is the need for Singaporeans to be a garbage man or a construction worker when we can use our time better ... be a brain surgeon or a banker.

-----

Of course our Singapore Students are much better than an underage fucker like u from the KL slums.

You are right...Many Singapore students are world beater...they performed much better than the best from USA, Europe, Malaysia and other part of the world in international competition. There is no shame to say that they are better than me... who failed kindergarten.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by baldeagle

Post by h***@gmail.com
Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education System.
1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.
2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.
3. They lack social skills. Many just don't know how to handle themselves in a social gathering or setting. They lack the social graces, simple human decency like politeness. They lack humane values.

You don't know what you are talking about. You talk bad about our brainy students...because you are JEALOUS...because you have a pin head of a brain. (Your post proved beyond a doubt that you don't have a smart brain)
Yes. The students who originally attended Chinese schools are not fluent in English....awkward when speaking English. However, they can speak very fluently in Mandarin. As long as they can communicate with others adequately, either in English or Chinese, what's the big deal! In NUS, in NTU and in A*Star, Mandarin is spoken more commonly than English.
Students educated in English school are good English speaker ...and as shown in TV debates...they are as good as any native English speaker.
Native English speakers who can talk as well as a car salesmen are shown to be NOT as well educated as Singaporeans.
What is the need to cook instant noodle and fold a blanket when we have maids to do the job for us !!! What is the need for Singaporeans to be a garbage man or a construction worker when we can use our time better ... be a brain surgeon or a banker.

-----
Of course our Singapore Students are much better than an underage fucker like u from the KL slums.
You are right...Many Singapore students are world beater...they performed much better than the best from USA, Europe, Malaysia and other part of the world in international competition. There is no shame to say that they are better than me... who failed kindergarten.

Like u they also don't know what life is for. All u know is making money and screwing underage Malay girls.
Life of course is very much more than that. For a start it is about living a happy life. Next is how can u contribute to make this world a better place before u move on to other realm of existence.

[TheInquirer]

Post by h***@gmail.com
Like u they also don't know what life is for. All u know is making money and screwing underage Malay girls.
Life of course is very much more than that. For a start it is about living a happy life. Next is how can u contribute to make this world a better place before u move on to other realm of existence.

yes, argeed. very good speech!

but ...

... still ...

i have a question:

by running away to Aussieland, how are you contributing to Singaporeans?

[baldeagle]

Post by h***@gmail.com
Like u they also don't know what life is for.

Are you sure...these brilliant young Singaporean don't know what is life for...ONLY you know ? I think, you are wrong about them.

I think they have higher IQ than you, they know things much better than you. Not fluent in English(but fluent in Chinese) is not equal to not knowing what life is for. Do you understand this flaw in your thinking ?

Post by h***@gmail.com
All u know is making money and screwing underage Malay girls.

Hey...Making money and fucking...are some of the ways I happened to enjoy life.

Post by h***@gmail.com
Life of course is very much more than that. For a start it is about living a happy life.

Yes. I do a lot more than just making money and fucking.... I travel a lot, I do charity work, I do research on religions and philosophy, I drive fast cars, I play chess, I jog and walk, I meditate, I climb mountains occasionally, I fuck politicians who failed us, I teach young kids about life, I talk cock with friends, I make girls happy, I make myself happy, I google, I use the facebook, I cook special meals (not sold in Singapore) I pay respect to my elders and visit them, ... and I spend time talking cock in this forum.
Enough..or do you want to know more what I do...to enjoy a full...and fulfilling life.

Post by h***@gmail.com
Next is how can u contribute to make this world a better place before u move on to other realm of existence.

You are right, I don't try to make Singapore or elsewhere a better place...I don't know how...and don't have the ability to do so. Others can do better...eg Lee Kuan Yew, Teng XiaoPing, Dr. M, Goh Keng Swee,

I don't believe...there is heaven or hell, ...when I die, I don't move on. It is the end for me..as a human...Just like the fallen dead leave. Nature may use the dead leave material( or my ashes) to make other things. I don't really care.

[Pelandok]

They do form a significant amount of votes in the 2016 elections and will be the swing factor either way in the 2016 elections.

Being educated sufficiently in Chemistry, and not enough in money, they should know enough to avoid Newater. They also do not have the emotional baggage of the CLOB issue and other previous spats.

A reduction in seats for the PAP may happen due to this section of the population if their concerns are not met enough, and this would require a reduction in foreign talent influx so as to protect their 'market'.

In case of upset, we trust the institutions are strong enough to carry Singapore.

Post by h***@gmail.com
Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education System.
1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.
2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.
3. They lack social skills. Many just don't know how to handle themselves in a social gathering or setting. They lack the social graces, simple human decency like politeness. They lack humane values.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Pelandok
They do form a significant amount of votes in the 2016 elections and will be the swing factor either way in the 2016 elections.

so you have faith that this batch of students will not blindly just
read the Straight Times?

[Pelandok]

They don't read the Straits Times. It is not a compulsory subject.

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Pelandok
They do form a significant amount of votes in the 2016 elections and will be the swing factor either way in the 2016 elections.

so you have faith that this batch of students will not blindly just
read the Straight Times?
--
Just answer the damn question, not the questioner! Don't
presume. My personal matters/beliefs are none of your
business. I ask, you answer. If you think I am stupid,
you have already proven that you are stupid, not me. If
you don't know the answer, can you please "pass" to other
people to answer? thanks.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Pelandok
They don't read the Straits Times. It is not a compulsory subject.

not even for General Paper?

[Zanzibar]

Post by h***@gmail.com
Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education System.
1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.
2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.
3. They lack social skills. Many just don't know how to handle themselves in a social gathering or setting. They lack the social graces, simple human decency like politeness. They lack humane values.

Why I agree with you is this is because I converse with many of them are like this, but unfortunately I found them to be lacking in fluency and not eloquent. d this included of many civil servants even up very high ranking in their minstry and this included of many MPs and ministers after having listened to them on TV news and interviews and radio 938.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
Why I agree with you is this is because I converse with many of them are like this, but unfortunately I found them to be lacking in fluency and not eloquent. d this included of many civil servants even up very high ranking in their minstry and this included of many MPs and ministers after having listened to them on TV news and interviews and radio 938.

do you agree that they should learn to ASK MORE QUESTIONS
instead of memorising for tests and exams? yes?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
Why I agree with you is this is because I converse with many of them are like this, but unfortunately I found them to be lacking in fluency and not eloquent. d this included of many civil servants even up very high ranking in their minstry and this included of many MPs and ministers after having listened to them on TV news and interviews and radio 938.

do you agree that they should learn to ASK MORE QUESTIONS
instead of memorising for tests and exams? yes?
--
Just answer the damn question, not the questioner! Don't
presume. My personal matters/beliefs are none of your
business. I ask, you answer. If you think I am stupid,
you have already proven that you are stupid, not me. If
you don't know the answer, can you please "pass" to other
people to answer? thanks.

The problem is not about asking more question which is not relevant, but about the ability to speak and converse the snetnece of thought in a flowing out way, continually in one sentence, in a logical manner and order.

It is also about the ability to speak out in a articulating way that is flowing out from the mind directly without having any stirring, stuttering, interrruptive ways of thougths that also peppered with Singlish words.

It is about the orderly way in a fluent, and eloquent processed way that processed in one thought of expression, and in expressing them in one line in a continuously form from the beginning of the thought that flows out from the mind from the start to the end.

It is about that people when listening of it can understand the words and meanings of your expressions and the gist of the story behind it from the complete convervation that was made.

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
Why I agree with you is this is because I converse with many of them are like this, but unfortunately I found them to be lacking in fluency and not eloquent. d this included of many civil servants even up very high ranking in their minstry and this included of many MPs and ministers after having listened to them on TV news and interviews and radio 938.

do you agree that they should learn to ASK MORE QUESTIONS
instead of memorising for tests and exams? yes?
--
Just answer the damn question, not the questioner! Don't
presume. My personal matters/beliefs are none of your
business. I ask, you answer. If you think I am stupid,
you have already proven that you are stupid, not me. If
you don't know the answer, can you please "pass" to other
people to answer? thanks.

The problem is not about asking more question which is not relevant, but about the ability to speak and converse the sentence of thought in a flowing out way, continually in one sentence, in a logical manner and order.

It is also about the ability to speak out in a articulating way that is flowing out from the mind directly without having any stirring, stuttering, interrruptive ways of thougths. It should not be peppered with Singlish words or other forms of slangs and linguals.

It is about speaking in the orderly way, in a fluent and eloquent processed way that processed in one thought of expression, and expressing them in one line in a continuously form from the beginning of the thought that flows out from the mind from the start to the end.

It is about that people when listening of it can understand the words and meanings of your expressions and the gist of the story behind it from the complete conversation that was made.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
The problem is not about asking more question which is not relevant,

do you mean you mean
1. "asking more question which is not relevant" (asking of questions is
not the problem)
2. "asking more question that is not relevant" (when you ask irrelevent
questions, that is a problem)
?

[ i don't mean to be grammar police, but in this case, the word "that"
versus "which" makes a huge difference. I guess even the Singaporean
"English" teachers may not know this themselves, much less their students ]


the rest: agreed.

but about the ability to speak and converse the sentence of thought in
a flowing out way, continually in one sentence, in a logical manner and
order.

Post by Zanzibar
It is also about the ability to speak out in a articulating way that is flowing out from the mind directly without having any stirring, stuttering, interrruptive ways of thougths. It should not be peppered with Singlish words or other forms of slangs and linguals.
It is about speaking in the orderly way, in a fluent and eloquent processed way that processed in one thought of expression, and expressing them in one line in a continuously form from the beginning of the thought that flows out from the mind from the start to the end.
It is about that people when listening of it can understand the words and meanings of your expressions and the gist of the story behind it from the complete conversation that was made.

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
The problem is not about asking more question which is not relevant,

do you mean you mean
1. "asking more question which is not relevant" (asking of questions is
not the problem)
2. "asking more question that is not relevant" (when you ask irrelevent
questions, that is a problem)
?
[ i don't mean to be grammar police, but in this case, the word "that"
versus "which" makes a huge difference. I guess even the Singaporean
"English" teachers may not know this themselves, much less their students ]
the rest: agreed.
but about the ability to speak and converse the sentence of thought in
a flowing out way, continually in one sentence, in a logical manner and
order.

Post by Zanzibar
It is also about the ability to speak out in a articulating way that is flowing out from the mind directly without having any stirring, stuttering, interrruptive ways of thougths. It should not be peppered with Singlish words or other forms of slangs and linguals.
It is about speaking in the orderly way, in a fluent and eloquent processed way that processed in one thought of expression, and expressing them in one line in a continuously form from the beginning of the thought that flows out from the mind from the start to the end.
It is about that people when listening of it can understand the words and meanings of your expressions and the gist of the story behind it from the complete conversation that was made.

You are right. It was shortened. But in long written form, it meant to be in a long word "which is not relevant as in this case". In this sentence case, "which", is applicable as its meaning of the wording denotes it. Thks.

This forum is a English lesson. This forum is also not meant to write in perfect sentences. It is for expression of written thought from our mind without spendingto much time to correct them, whether correcting of spelling of words or any of its perfectness of sentences, as they can become tedious and time consuming to many to communicate their views in forums here.

Improvement needs not be perfect but by incremental ways steps along the way when we write more often from our thoughts without mental translation.

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
The problem is not about asking more question which is not relevant,

do you mean you mean
1. "asking more question which is not relevant" (asking of questions is
not the problem)
2. "asking more question that is not relevant" (when you ask irrelevent
questions, that is a problem)
?
[ i don't mean to be grammar police, but in this case, the word "that"
versus "which" makes a huge difference. I guess even the Singaporean
"English" teachers may not know this themselves, much less their students ]
the rest: agreed.
but about the ability to speak and converse the sentence of thought in
a flowing out way, continually in one sentence, in a logical manner and
order.

Post by Zanzibar
It is also about the ability to speak out in a articulating way that is flowing out from the mind directly without having any stirring, stuttering, interrruptive ways of thougths. It should not be peppered with Singlish words or other forms of slangs and linguals.
It is about speaking in the orderly way, in a fluent and eloquent processed way that processed in one thought of expression, and expressing them in one line in a continuously form from the beginning of the thought that flows out from the mind from the start to the end.
It is about that people when listening of it can understand the words and meanings of your expressions and the gist of the story behind it from the complete conversation that was made.

"That" is used when there is a continuous discussion of the subject matter that follows that being in discussion. "Which" is used when there the subject matter is outside the scope or not part of the continuous discussion of the subject matter being in discussion.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
"That" is used when there is a continuous discussion of the subject matter that follows that being in discussion. "Which" is used when there the subject matter is outside the scope or not part of the continuous discussion of the subject matter being in discussion.

might be even more clearer if you use a comma "," or brackets "(...)"
e.g.

"The problem is not about asking more questions, which is not relevant,
but about the ability to ..."

"The problem is not about asking more questions (which is not relevant)
but about the ability to ..."

[Meaning: 'asking more questions' is not the relevant issue ]

"The problem is not about asking more questions that are not relevant,
but about the ability to ..."

[Meaning: the irrelevant questions are not a problem, but maybe the
relevant questions are. just maybe. ]

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
"That" is used when there is a continuous discussion of the subject matter that follows that being in discussion. "Which" is used when there the subject matter is outside the scope or not part of the continuous discussion of the subject matter being in discussion.

might be even more clearer if you use a comma "," or brackets "(...)"
e.g.
"The problem is not about asking more questions, which is not relevant,
but about the ability to ..."
"The problem is not about asking more questions (which is not relevant)
but about the ability to ..."
[Meaning: 'asking more questions' is not the relevant issue ]
"The problem is not about asking more questions that are not relevant,
but about the ability to ..."
[Meaning: the irrelevant questions are not a problem, but maybe the
relevant questions are. just maybe. ]

Yes, you are right, a bracket is better and preferred.

[TheInquirer]

might be even more clearer if you use a comma "," or brackets "(...)"
e.g.

"The problem is not about asking more questions, which is not relevant,
but about the ability to ..."

"The problem is not about asking more questions (which is not relevant)
but about the ability to ..."

[Meaning: 'asking more questions' is not the relevant issue ]

"The problem is not about asking more questions that are not relevant,
but about the ability to ..."

[Meaning: the irrelevant questions are not a problem, but maybe the
relevant questions are. just maybe. ]

[TheInquirer]

might be even clearer if you use a comma "," or brackets "(...)"
e.g.

"The problem is not about asking more questions, which is not relevant,
but about the ability to ..."

"The problem is not about asking more questions (which is not relevant)
but about the ability to ..."

[Meaning: 'asking more questions' is not the relevant issue ]

"The problem is not about asking more questions that are not relevant,
but about the ability to ..."

[Meaning: the irrelevant questions are not a problem, but maybe the
relevant questions are. just maybe. ]

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
Why I agree with you is this is because I converse with many of them are like this, but unfortunately I found them to be lacking in fluency and not eloquent. d this included of many civil servants even up very high ranking in their minstry and this included of many MPs and ministers after having listened to them on TV news and interviews and radio 938.

do you agree that they should learn to ASK MORE QUESTIONS
instead of memorising for tests and exams? yes?
--
Just answer the damn question, not the questioner! Don't
presume. My personal matters/beliefs are none of your
business. I ask, you answer. If you think I am stupid,
you have already proven that you are stupid, not me. If
you don't know the answer, can you please "pass" to other
people to answer? thanks.

Asking more questions are essential parts of the learning proces of "enquiring and asking" minds in our education. The memorising process for tests and exams are also parts of the learning process of recall education. They are separated of each other. Depending on what forms of subjects of the test and exam questions, the questions asked can require on memorising answers, whilst others may require a narrative forms of answers indtead.


The original topic of the subject is not about poor people but about imcompetency in vocal communication skill, that I agreed totally here. I cam across graduates who talked to me in a Singlish way that I wonder how he got his degree. He even texted me in Singlish way that I feel at loss as to their phrases, words, and meanngs of it.


s

[TheInquirer]

On 12/8/2013 1:54 PM, Zanzibar wrote:
I cam across graduates who talked to me in a Singlish way

LOL!

do their "English" _teachers_ teach the proper English and show how to
speak/write proper English by example?


that I wonder how he got his degree.

do their Singaporean lecturers teachers speak/write proper English?
do their foreigner lecturers teachers speak/write proper English?

LOL!

by the way, consider the Filipino sales people and maids that have been
in Singapore for a few years. have you heard how they speak?
don't you find American-accented Singlish interesting?


He even texted me in Singlish way that I feel at loss as to their
phrases, words, and meanngs of it.

i c. r u ft? ur england cmi? nvm.

LOL!

[Zanzibar]

Post by Zanzibar
I cam across graduates who talked to me in a Singlish way
LOL!
do their "English" _teachers_ teach the proper English and show how to
speak/write proper English by example?
that I wonder how he got his degree.
do their Singaporean lecturers teachers speak/write proper English?
do their foreigner lecturers teachers speak/write proper English?
LOL!
by the way, consider the Filipino sales people and maids that have been
in Singapore for a few years. have you heard how they speak?
don't you find American-accented Singlish interesting?
He even texted me in Singlish way that I feel at loss as to their
phrases, words, and meanngs of it.
i c. r u ft? ur england cmi? nvm.
LOL!

I think the subject here by ***@gmail.com is about Singaporean graduates not able to speak fluently and not eloquent in their speech of tougue.

I think he referred to about oratory skills. In my opinion, oratory skill is a reflection of the speaking skills and in turn they reflect on the expression on their writings.

I have seen too many graduates have poor oratory and conversational skills.

Their poor oratory and conversational skils were contributed from lack of interaction with the right people from their classmates and other outside of their schools.

Unfortunately their course did not have oratory training on presentation skils, speaking skill training of such conversational skill training.

Since such training courses are not available, their only way is to develop their oratorical and debating skills through joining of oratory and debating society through lessons and classes.

But this not useful because it is like attending Korean or Japanese language lessons and then it cannot be practiced as environment is not a Korean or Japanese environment, or working their country.

There should be immersion experience where their lessons learned can be applied and practiced and even horned. The best is to work in traditonal Japanese or Korean restaurants wher their conversations can be acquired and learned.

I think from my experience, the best way to speak English well fluently and eloquently is read aloud everyday on every articles covered in the newspapers. Reading aloud on your own in your quiet time on some particular of the long article that found in the centre page of the newspapers is a good training ground to verbalize one's speaking skill.

Try it, it works vey well. If one remembers in their primary school, this is like a comprehension class, whereby the student is tested of his/her comprehension skill by reading aloud a selected passage of the book decided by the teacher and then explains to the teacher of the story of it. By this way one can comphrehend (understand) what was the passage was meant.

Practising of conversational skill in English is key to speaking correctly and developing flowing words of thoughts in a fluent and eloquent manners. Once this is done, the writing will also improve as the flows of words in the fluent and eloquent manners would directly imprinted in the same way on the piece of paper.

[TheInquirer]

On 12/8/2013 7:35 PM, Zanzibar wrote:

do you know from kindergarten to Junior College to University, what the
culture of Singapore classrooms is like? Do pupils talk and share
knowledge with each other when they have problems understanding their
school subjects, or do they rely on their private tutors?

LOL!

do they encourage students to talk and explain matters in all subjects
to their classmates, or do they rely on the teacher (who speaks Singlish
because he/she wants to connect with the students better)?

LOL!

since these are not tested except maybe for the language "subjects"
(i.e. there is no oral examination for history, mathematics, physics),
do you think multi-way multi-modal (speaking and writing) classroom
communication is viewed as important by our teachers and students?

LOL!

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer
do you know from kindergarten to Junior College to University, what the
culture of Singapore classrooms is like? Do pupils talk and share
knowledge with each other when they have problems understanding their
school subjects, or do they rely on their private tutors?
LOL!
do they encourage students to talk and explain matters in all subjects
to their classmates, or do they rely on the teacher (who speaks Singlish
because he/she wants to connect with the students better)?
LOL!
since these are not tested except maybe for the language "subjects"
(i.e. there is no oral examination for history, mathematics, physics),
do you think multi-way multi-modal (speaking and writing) classroom
communication is viewed as important by our teachers and students?
LOL!

If the lessons are tightly run in a tight timetable, there is nothing can be done more to encourgae speaking and conversing in the class.

But this is quite common in most countries as they also have the same standards of lessons to complete and achieved within the year for their students.

I think spoken English or Mandarin and the fluency of speaking can be done through watching of TV such as English movie programmes and art science programme, and for Mandarin, the Chinese drama or Chinese narrative programmes.


Also not to forget to read aloud the articles in the English papers and Chinese papers.

The reason being that reading aloud gives one a feel of the flow of words and the eloquent from the flow of its wordings, since articles are written in their expressed form expressed by the commentator or analyst, or author themselves.


Really, much depend on the person making effort to read aloud on his/her own.By this way, it can build up speaking confident, and also it develops the brain from being obstacled by menta-blocks on translation and interpretation of them that caused further obstruction to speak normally and flowingly from the mind.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
If the lessons are tightly run in a tight timetable, there is nothing can be done more to encourgae speaking and conversing in the class.

yes ... yes ... yes ... but why must it be mostly teacher talk, instead
of student-student talk during the classroom? I thought NIE trains them
in the latest teaching methods? why do they still revert to the old
methods of teaching (the way their own teachers and their teachers'
teachers taught them)?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
If the lessons are tightly run in a tight timetable, there is nothing can be done more to encourgae speaking and conversing in the class.

yes ... yes ... yes ... but why must it be mostly teacher talk, instead
of student-student talk during the classroom? I thought NIE trains them
in the latest teaching methods? why do they still revert to the old
methods of teaching (the way their own teachers and their teachers'
teachers taught them)?

The NIE teachers are trained to deliver their lessons in the proper way to maximise its effects on studentns to receive them and to absorb them.

But because of their own tight schedule of delivering the lessons within the time block on their timetable, they have to talk and talk in order to deliver and finish them within the time block.

They have other leassons to continue with them on other days in order to complete the whole syllabus for the term or for the whole year.

The problem of this lies with the MOE. They do not have a good policy and is still resistance to change even up to now.

This is due to their stubbornness of continuing in pushing the topics to the maximum, that most students found the problems too hard to solve them, and that ended them up failing in their marks in subject like Maths.

So that is where time was ocupied with hard solving of problem when it leaves very little "pause time" left for the teacher and students to interact with each other, and to communicate and discuss their topic.

There should be "pause" time from lessons for which a two-way communication or mass communication from each other can be exchanged and talked.

This can improve and even polish up their oratory and speaking skill as well.

Rightly, the MOE should reduce the lessons and thus there will be reduced contents to be taught and leaned, and only essential and keys contents should be taught only.

This is so that there will be enough of "pause time" for students to think and talk, and discuss and channel their views back and forth with the teachers and other students as well.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
The NIE teachers are trained to deliver their lessons in the proper way to maximise its effects on studentns to receive them and to absorb them.

"deliver" lessons ... you think they are Fedex or DHL?

what happened to the newer theories like social constructivism and
cognitivism? these are not taught in NIE? why are these not used?

[baldeagle]

Post by Zanzibar
Rightly, the MOE should reduce the lessons and thus there will be reduced contents to be taught and leaned, and only essential and keys contents should be taught only.
This is so that there will be enough of "pause time" for students to think and talk, and discuss and channel their views back and forth with the teachers and other students as well.

I have seen how teachers are trained and how they performed...in the USA, in UK and in Malaysia. I can say without a doubt that Singapore has the very good teachers, the best training for teachers...and for this the teacher are rewarded with high salary, as good as Engineers and other professionals (except for lawyers, surgeon and bankers). Our students could compete and beat with the best from USA and Europe ....is mainly because our educational system is on the ball....able to improve constantly.

Yes. Our System is NOT perfect...especially in putting too much emphasis on passing exams...on getting a first class honours degree...in order to get the best jobs for the students.
This is the fault of the individuals, the family as much as is the fault of the educational system. The parents especially are the guilty ones...forcing their kids to attend tuitions for extra lessons...and to attend all sorts of training from piano lesson,.... to ballet dancing.
These extra tuitions and skill training are utterly useless. Singapore has not produced ONE world renowned pianist or world class ballet dancer.

As a matter of fact, they are harmful to the kids as they robs the kids of playtime, to enjoy playing games as kids...which is essential to acquire the important all round training in the gamesmanship of life....to learn how to relate with others fellow beings.... and towards building a well-balanced adult.

Singaporean are blaming the educational system...they are behaving like the victims of a fire which was started in the first place by themselves.


we are PATHETIC.

[~]

Post by Zanzibar
Rightly, the MOE should reduce the lessons and thus there will be reduced
contents to be taught and leaned, and only essential and keys contents
should be taught only.
This is so that there will be enough of "pause time" for students to think
and talk, and discuss and channel their views back and forth with the
teachers and other students as well.

I have seen how teachers are trained and how they performed...in the USA, in
UK and in Malaysia. I can say without a doubt that Singapore has the very
good teachers, the best training for teachers...and for this the teacher
are rewarded with high salary, as good as Engineers and other
professionals (except for lawyers, surgeon and bankers). Our students could
compete and beat with the best from USA and Europe ....is mainly because our
educational system is on the ball....able to improve constantly.

Yes. Our System is NOT perfect...especially in putting too much emphasis on
passing exams...on getting a first class honours degree...in order to get
the best jobs for the students.
This is the fault of the individuals, the family as much as is the fault of
the educational system. The parents especially are the guilty
ones...forcing their kids to attend tuitions for extra lessons...and to
attend all sorts of training from piano lesson,.... to ballet dancing.
These extra tuitions and skill training are utterly useless. Singapore has
not produced ONE world renowned pianist or world class ballet dancer.

As a matter of fact, they are harmful to the kids as they robs the kids of
playtime, to enjoy playing games as kids...which is essential to acquire the
important all round training in the gamesmanship of life....to learn how to
relate with others fellow beings.... and towards building a well-balanced
adult.

Singaporean are blaming the educational system...they are behaving like the
victims of a fire which was started in the first place by themselves.


we are PATHETIC.





--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---

[TheInquirer]

On 12/10/2013 10:35 AM, ~ wrote:
huh? did you just quote the baldeagle verbatim? where was your opinion?

[Zanzibar]

Post by baldeagle

Post by Zanzibar
Rightly, the MOE should reduce the lessons and thus there will be reduced contents to be taught and leaned, and only essential and keys contents should be taught only.
This is so that there will be enough of "pause time" for students to think and talk, and discuss and channel their views back and forth with the teachers and other students as well.

I have seen how teachers are trained and how they performed...in the USA, in UK and in Malaysia. I can say without a doubt that Singapore has the very good teachers, the best training for teachers...and for this the teacher are rewarded with high salary, as good as Engineers and other professionals (except for lawyers, surgeon and bankers). Our students could compete and beat with the best from USA and Europe ....is mainly because our educational system is on the ball....able to improve constantly.
Yes. Our System is NOT perfect...especially in putting too much emphasis on passing exams...on getting a first class honours degree...in order to get the best jobs for the students.
This is the fault of the individuals, the family as much as is the fault of the educational system. The parents especially are the guilty ones...forcing their kids to attend tuitions for extra lessons...and to attend all sorts of training from piano lesson,.... to ballet dancing.
These extra tuitions and skill training are utterly useless. Singapore has not produced ONE world renowned pianist or world class ballet dancer.
As a matter of fact, they are harmful to the kids as they robs the kids of playtime, to enjoy playing games as kids...which is essential to acquire the important all round training in the gamesmanship of life....to learn how to relate with others fellow beings.... and towards building a well-balanced adult.
Singaporean are blaming the educational system...they are behaving like the victims of a fire which was started in the first place by themselves.
we are PATHETIC.

I have no doubt agreed to say that our educational system is very good in comparison to many developed countries. But how our people cannt find good jobs, like those relationship managers in the income range from 120 USD to 180USD per annum.

All these jobs went only to the foreign Indians as the practiced racist stance of givnig their hig hpaying jobs to their indians when many of them were retrenched or fired from their previous jobs with other banks.

And many of thme do not have good university deree from a Indian or overseas university whose name is acceptable to Singaporean standards.

Many of them ahve very poor results in their A levels and/or "0" level with Maths and Sciences as their main cores.

If the PM is interested, he can ask the HR of these foreign banks to bring their clients to a relationship communication.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
I have no doubt agreed to say that our educational system is very good in comparison to many developed countries. But how our people cannt find good jobs, like those relationship managers in the income range from 120 USD to 180USD per annum.
All these jobs went only to the foreign Indians as the practiced racist stance of givnig their hig hpaying jobs to their indians when many of them were retrenched or fired from their previous jobs with other banks.

is it sour grapes? so what if they are not as "highly qualified"?
what if they're more street smart and are more able to bring in the
clients? what if they are better at customer service? what if they
have a hungrier, more "can do" spirit?

just because you have one piece of toilet paper cert, you think you
deserve the goodies? why don't Sinkapooreans stop being so smug, but
look at their own weaknesses?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
I have no doubt agreed to say that our educational system is very good in comparison to many developed countries. But how our people cannt find good jobs, like those relationship managers in the income range from 120 USD to 180USD per annum.
All these jobs went only to the foreign Indians as the practiced racist stance of givnig their hig hpaying jobs to their indians when many of them were retrenched or fired from their previous jobs with other banks.

is it sour grapes? so what if they are not as "highly qualified"?
what if they're more street smart and are more able to bring in the
clients? what if they are better at customer service? what if they
have a hungrier, more "can do" spirit?
just because you have one piece of toilet paper cert, you think you
deserve the goodies? why don't Sinkapooreans stop being so smug, but
look at their own weaknesses?
--
Just answer the damn question(s), not the questioner! Don't
presume. My personal matters/beliefs are none of your
business. I ask, you answer. If you think I am stupid,
you have already proven that you are stupid, not me. If
you don't know the answer, can you please "pass" to other
people to answer? thanks.

Are you talking cock and nonsense?.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar

Post by TheInquirer
is it sour grapes? so what if they are not as "highly qualified"?
what if they're more street smart and are more able to bring in the
clients? what if they are better at customer service? what if they
have a hungrier, more "can do" spirit?
just because you have one piece of toilet paper cert, you think you
deserve the goodies? why don't Sinkapooreans stop being so smug, but
look at their own weaknesses?

Are you talking cock and nonsense?.

these aren't legitimate questions?

you like to whine and complain? shall i leave auwe digidauw to deal
with you guys?

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar

Post by TheInquirer
is it sour grapes? so what if they are not as "highly qualified"?
what if they're more street smart and are more able to bring in the
clients? what if they are better at customer service? what if they
have a hungrier, more "can do" spirit?
just because you have one piece of toilet paper cert, you think you
deserve the goodies? why don't Sinkapooreans stop being so smug, but
look at their own weaknesses?

Are you talking cock and nonsense?.

these aren't legitimate questions? if you don't like the situation
why not do something about it? also, why not vote wisely and ask your
friends to vote wisely next time?

[baldeagle]

Post by Zanzibar
I have no doubt agreed to say that our educational system is very good in comparison to many developed countries.
But how our people cannt find good jobs, like those relationship managers

Hey...Your definition of 'a good job' is a bank PR man !?
A Bank PR man is NOT a very good job....may be the pay is good...but the job is real lousy. There are thousands of better jobs with higher pay than a PR man in the bank.
My son who is a SVP in a Bank...told me that the PR jobs is the worse job in a bank....an entry level job for a graduate.

This morning I was at my bank...I overheard a woman shouting at the Relationship manager at the front desk...right in front of all the customers. The poor man had to keep apologizing...I would have slapped the rude woman....and told her to go and get fucked.
But the poor man ...obviously wanting to keep his job...had to swallow a lot of shit from her. This is just the easy part of the job of a customer relation manager. The bank's senior manager would treat him worse than the woman...if he ever failed to meet the monthly quota.

[Zanzibar]

Post by baldeagle

Post by Zanzibar
I have no doubt agreed to say that our educational system is very good in comparison to many developed countries.
But how our people cannt find good jobs, like those relationship managers

Hey...Your definition of 'a good job' is a bank PR man !?
A Bank PR man is NOT a very good job....may be the pay is good...but the job is real lousy. There are thousands of better jobs with higher pay than a PR man in the bank.
My son who is a SVP in a Bank...told me that the PR jobs is the worse job in a bank....an entry level job for a graduate.
This morning I was at my bank...I overheard a woman shouting at the Relationship manager at the front desk...right in front of all the customers. The poor man had to keep apologizing...I would have slapped the rude woman....and told her to go and get fucked.
But the poor man ...obviously wanting to keep his job...had to swallow a lot of shit from her. This is just the easy part of the job of a customer relation manager. The bank's senior manager would treat him worse than the woman...if he ever failed to meet the monthly quota.

You are right, the relationship manager is a lousy job. But as a relationship manager workign at the high level title of a VP and above, the job s muc heasier as most the work and scolding are done their junior relationshop managers whose job are to work for him.


They have to find customers who are willing to part their money to him to buy their products and not to blame them for their loss, and yes - to meet the monthly quota.

Even though the job is shit job, but every passing day is also a failure, when employer also took shit job too, the pay is good at 180k USD per annum for relationship mananger carrying a title of VP. The mid-level relationship mangers reporting to him is 120K per annum.

THe question of asking should be onwhich job is not "shit job" when the pay is high and good. In most jobs from cleaner to banking or factory jobs, equaly of treatment by superiors does not always for them to exist.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
You are right, the relationship manager is a lousy job. But as a relationship manager workign at the high level title of a VP and above, the job s muc heasier as most the work and scolding are done their junior relationshop managers whose job are to work for him.
They have to find customers who are willing to part their money to him to buy their products and not to blame them for their loss, and yes - to meet the monthly quota.
Even though the job is shit job, but every passing day is also a failure, when employer also took shit job too, the pay is good at 180k USD per annum for relationship mananger carrying a title of VP. The mid-level relationship mangers reporting to him is 120K per annum.
THe question of asking should be onwhich job is not "shit job" when the pay is high and good. In most jobs from cleaner to banking or factory jobs, equaly of treatment by superiors does not always for them to exist.

so do you like this state of affairs? what are you going to do about
it? are you going to exercise your vote properly (and tell your friends
and family members to do the same) during GE 2016?

are you jealous of their pay? what are you going to do about it?

are you so proud of your own "abilities" and disdainful of theirs?
you think you deserve the comfortable life just because you have some
piece of toilet paper certificate?

[ i just talked with a Singaporean ex-HR manager in a bank. He said
that foreigners are hungrier and have the "can do" attitude (whether
they are able to do it or not, that's another matter). He also said
that India Indians are more united (that's why they like to pull in
their comrades from their home country) while our locals are brought up
to be more competitive. ]

instead of thinking of ourselves as so damn bloody good and others so
damn undeserving, why not Singaporeans look at what we can learn from
the foreigners (e.g. their drive, determination, attitude) instead of
our misplaced sense of entitlement (thinking that the world owes us our
oyster) and our selfishness (everybody thinking of himself/herself only)?

alternatively, instead of whining and complaining about foreign
competition, why don't voters pressurise the government to shut off the
competition (if that is possible)?

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar

Post by baldeagle
This morning I was at my bank...I overheard a woman shouting at the Relationship manager at the front desk...right in front of all the customers. The poor man had to keep apologizing...I would have slapped the rude woman....and told her to go and get fucked.
But the poor man ...obviously wanting to keep his job...had to swallow a lot of shit from her. This is just the easy part of the job of a customer relation manager. The bank's senior manager would treat him worse than the woman...if he ever failed to meet the monthly quota.

You are right, the relationship manager is a lousy job. But as a relationship manager workign at the high level title of a VP and above, the job s muc heasier as most the work and scolding are done their junior relationshop managers whose job are to work for him.
They have to find customers who are willing to part their money to him to buy their products and not to blame them for their loss, and yes - to meet the monthly quota.
Even though the job is shit job, but every passing day is also a failure, when employer also took shit job too, the pay is good at 180k USD per annum for relationship mananger carrying a title of VP. The mid-level relationship mangers reporting to him is 120K per annum.
THe question of asking should be onwhich job is not "shit job" when the pay is high and good. In most jobs from cleaner to banking or factory jobs, equaly of treatment by superiors does not always for them to exist.

so do you like this state of affairs? what are you going to do about
it? are you going to exercise your vote properly (and tell your friends
and family members to do the same) during GE 2016?

are you jealous of their pay? what are you going to do about it?

are you so proud of your own "abilities" and disdainful of theirs?
you think you deserve the comfortable life just because you have some
piece of toilet paper certificate?

[ i just talked with a Singaporean ex-HR manager in a bank. He said
that foreigners are hungrier and have the "can do" attitude (whether
they are able to do it or not, that's another matter). He also said
that India Indians are more united (that's why they like to pull in
their comrades from their home country) while our locals are brought up
to be more selfishly competitive. ]

instead of thinking of ourselves as so damn bloody good and others so
damn undeserving, why not Singaporeans look at what we can learn from
the foreigners (e.g. their drive, determination, attitude) instead of
our misplaced sense of entitlement (thinking that the world owes us our
oyster) and our selfishness (everybody thinking of himself/herself only)?

alternatively, instead of whining and complaining about foreign
competition, why don't voters pressurise the government to shut off the
competition (if that is possible)?

[Zanzibar]

Post by baldeagle

Post by Zanzibar
Rightly, the MOE should reduce the lessons and thus there will be reduced contents to be taught and leaned, and only essential and keys contents should be taught only.
This is so that there will be enough of "pause time" for students to think and talk, and discuss and channel their views back and forth with the teachers and other students as well.

I have seen how teachers are trained and how they performed...in the USA, in UK and in Malaysia. I can say without a doubt that Singapore has the very good teachers, the best training for teachers...and for this the teacher are rewarded with high salary, as good as Engineers and other professionals (except for lawyers, surgeon and bankers). Our students could compete and beat with the best from USA and Europe ....is mainly because our educational system is on the ball....able to improve constantly.
Yes. Our System is NOT perfect...especially in putting too much emphasis on passing exams...on getting a first class honours degree...in order to get the best jobs for the students.
This is the fault of the individuals, the family as much as is the fault of the educational system. The parents especially are the guilty ones...forcing their kids to attend tuitions for extra lessons...and to attend all sorts of training from piano lesson,.... to ballet dancing.
These extra tuitions and skill training are utterly useless. Singapore has not produced ONE world renowned pianist or world class ballet dancer.
As a matter of fact, they are harmful to the kids as they robs the kids of playtime, to enjoy playing games as kids...which is essential to acquire the important all round training in the gamesmanship of life....to learn how to relate with others fellow beings.... and towards building a well-balanced adult.
Singaporean are blaming the educational system...they are behaving like the victims of a fire which was started in the first place by themselves.
we are PATHETIC.

To solve this, can we ban the tuition classess or any other classses.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
To solve this, can we ban the tuition classess or any other classses.

will this really solve the problem?

you drive the thing underground, but in its place, do students learn
important life skills and street smarts (e.g. communication, EQ,
relationship management, marketing, asking questions, thinking
critically ... etc) whether in school or in secret tuition classes?

when will Singapore society learn that certification is only 10% of
what's important in life?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
To solve this, can we ban the tuition classess or any other classses.

will this really solve the problem?
you drive the thing underground, but in its place, do students learn
important life skills and street smarts (e.g. communication, EQ,
relationship management, marketing, asking questions, thinking
critically ... etc) whether in school or in secret tuition classes?
when will Singapore society learn that certification is only 10% of
what's important in life?
--
Just answer the damn question(s), not the questioner! Don't
presume. My personal matters/beliefs are none of your
business. I ask, you answer. If you think I am stupid,
you have already proven that you are stupid, not me. If
you don't know the answer, can you please "pass" to other
people to answer? thanks.

In many developed countries from Japan to UK, US, EU and even Switzerland and scandinavian countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark, they do not have such kinds of such many kinds of tuition centres of courses found in Singapore.

They may have child development centre but that they are for those identified with autistic behavior and hyperactive children, or children with slow IQ mental development, or they require of other focus training to improve their mental development skills, etc.

In any case, there do nto have tuition class when the schools have their duties to cover them in their course and they even have heir duties to coach them if they found to be weak i nthe subject.

The responsibility lies with teachers and principals, and specialist education people in their fields o expertise in the schools that assigned from the education ministry.

There should not be any worry of any student in Singapore of going underground to get tuition if a law is passed in parliament, whereby registered tuition centres can only take in students that have a referral letter from the school principal on recommednation from the senior subject specialist teacher.

The senior subject specialisr is to ensure those slow learner students will be ttaught and chase up their marks to match of other sutdents in the class.

The pricipal of the tuition centre will have the results from their tuition teacher o ntheir students.

The results will be emailed to the principal of the school for their senior subject specialist to review and comment if further tuition is reqired or if any specific additional topics or subjects to be covered or not for the tutored student.

Also the senior specialist teacher will refer to their child development evaluation and assessement committiees that included of psychiatrist to check on the child mental trauma.

Or to check on the student's family background by referring the case to social welfare investigator to see if the student has had family problems like divorcing parents, or family abuses on him, quarrelling family, and noisy family, and many other social factors.

I think by this way of processing weaker students with various conditions to tuition, other students will have equal footing to depend of their learning at schools instead.

By his way, there will be reduction of teachers in the tuition centres, and thus many teachers could be recruited again to join their schools again.

This is worthy of consideration.

[TheInquirer]

On 12/11/2013 11:19 PM, Zanzibar wrote:
...

Post by Zanzibar
This is worthy of consideration.

yes, agreed. are tuition centres the symptom or the cause of problems?

instead of aiming to get rid of tuition centres, why not make our
"garment" and "silver servants" more accountable? why not apply more
pressure to them to improve our normal school education ... take care of
less-privilege poorer people ... make it more wholistic?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer
...

Post by Zanzibar
This is worthy of consideration.

yes, agreed. are tuition centres the symptom or the cause of problems?
instead of aiming to get rid of tuition centres, why not make our
"garment" and "silver servants" more accountable? why not apply more
pressure to them to improve our normal school education ... take care of
less-privilege poorer people ... make it more wholistic?
--
Just answer the damn question(s), not the questioner! Don't
presume. My personal matters/beliefs are none of your
business. I ask, you answer. If you think I am stupid,
you have already proven that you are stupid, not me. If
you don't know the answer, can you please "pass" to other
people to answer? thanks.

Yes, the tution centresare the causes of the manifestation of the current problems.

The proliferation of thousands of tuition centres that grown over the years have had overwhelmed the reliability of depending on school teachers to teach and horn students, and that to especially to guide and govern and discipline them by their teachers of discipline of their leaderships in schools have been demolished down by parents that cannot find reliable teachers in school to "guarantee" the success of improvement of their children while in scools.

In other words thy cannot entrust their chidlren to the teachers of schools anymore.

If there is a law where schooling is not compulsory from primary one to secondary 4 to be educated and conducted and held in public schools that were meant primarily to enable and ensure and to deepen the integration of the diverty of various Singaporean children to principally meet those national and social values and goals, etc, most parents would not want to send their chidlren to public school anymore if they had a chance to send to tuition centres instead.

There is more reliability in tuition centre as they have adapted different teaching methology and proven system to educate their child.

In the early days, there were hardly any tuition centres around in Singapore, and yet many students studied hard on their own to succeed.

If they have had interent at that time, more would have succeeded, as internet have many training and explaination and methodology to teach online to them.

But now most students did not take their study seriously in class because they knew the tuition techers can give them a lift up whenever they need them.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
Yes, the tution centresare the causes of the manifestation of the current problems.
...
In other words thy cannot entrust their chidlren to the teachers of schools anymore.

and you don't think that your two sentences contradict each other?

have you thought about the plight of those from the poorer families
(mostly malays, but there are indians and chinese as well) who cannot
afford tutors? why can't the school take care of them (as is their duty
as public servants paid by tax dollars)? whose fault is it, actually?

[TheInquirer]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
Yes, the tution centresare the causes of the manifestation of the current problems.
...
In other words thy cannot entrust their chidlren to the teachers of schools anymore.

and you don't think that your two sentences contradict each other?
have you thought about the plight of those from the poorer families
(mostly malays, but there are indians and chinese as well) who cannot
afford tutors? why can't the school take care of them (as is their duty
as public servants paid by tax dollars)? whose fault is it, actually?

the other thing is: even if schools or tuition centres can teach
students to score a string of As, do they teach students to be
street-smart, to be creative ... etc?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
Yes, the tution centresare the causes of the manifestation of the
current problems.
...
In other words thy cannot entrust their chidlren to the teachers of
schools anymore.

and you don't think that your two sentences contradict each other?
have you thought about the plight of those from the poorer families
(mostly malays, but there are indians and chinese as well) who cannot
afford tutors? why can't the school take care of them (as is their duty
as public servants paid by tax dollars)? whose fault is it, actually?

the other thing is: even if schools or tuition centres can teach
students to score a string of As, do they teach students to be
street-smart, to be creative ... etc?

In my opinion, academic learning from teachers teaching can provde the enhancement in motivation and absorption to increase the potential of the natural learning curve of the person on imagination and curiosity, but it is limited to the extent that it cannot make a person more street-smart and intelligently more creative unitl he/she is on hands-on experiencing them throughout th journey of their life time.

Creativeness is about the exposure that forms in the imagination and visualization of the person's mind that has those elements of curiosities, perception and perspective qualities, that either was imbibed or ingrained from his/her exposure in hsi mind or guidance from his/her dad or mom who had the experiences and knowledge od training and the available of art culture in the environment in wich he/she lives in to enable them to progress and enlighten.

Street-smart is the ability of the person's been given the free-reins to work independently and run their own in the making of day to day decision on their feet on their own, picking up and moving on in their learning experiences.

The school of education can certainly help give an expanded limit on the person to perform more confidently with more intelligent thinking and decision-making assistance.

Thius, the scoool teacher and tuition teacher somewhat cannot produce better student on these aspects of things - creativeness and strret-smartness.

Only parents can help them on these. This is because their children can acquire their learning skill and experiences from their parents if they wanted to learn and taught by their parents instead.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
In my opinion, academic learning from teachers teaching can provde the enhancement in motivation and absorption to increase the potential of the natural learning curve of the person on imagination and curiosity, but it is limited to the extent that it cannot make a person more street-smart and intelligently more creative unitl he/she is on hands-on experiencing them throughout th journey of their life time.
Creativeness is about the exposure that forms in the imagination and visualization of the person's mind that has those elements of curiosities, perception and perspective qualities, that either was imbibed or ingrained from his/her exposure in hsi mind or guidance from his/her dad or mom who had the experiences and knowledge od training and the available of art culture in the environment in wich he/she lives in to enable them to progress and enlighten.
Street-smart is the ability of the person's been given the free-reins to work independently and run their own in the making of day to day decision on their feet on their own, picking up and moving on in their learning experiences.

why can't the schools' examination systems be changed to measure
creativity, the ability to learn how to learn a random new topic on
one's own (unaided), collaborative / cooperation, real-life problem solving?

warum?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
Yes, the tution centresare the causes of the manifestation of the current problems.
...
In other words thy cannot entrust their chidlren to the teachers of schools anymore.

and you don't think that your two sentences contradict each other?
have you thought about the plight of those from the poorer families
(mostly malays, but there are indians and chinese as well) who cannot
afford tutors? why can't the school take care of them (as is their duty
as public servants paid by tax dollars)? whose fault is it, actually?

No, not at all. The tuition centres had made used of the weaknesses of MOE role of their school teachers of which their limited responsibility is confined to delivering their teaching material to their students and nothing more.

Because of this, parents afraid of their children may not passed as they afraid they may not be able to absorbe and perform ad digest the teacher's input to them, they became worried and concerned of them.

Thus, due to their lack of confidence on the teachers and the school, they prefer to get some help from outside in order to ensure their chidlren can pass in their examinations.

In short, theuy cannot entrust their children to teach and pass their chidlren anymore.

They have lost their confidence in them. They have now decided to switch to their trust and confidence to their tuition teachers in tution centres instead. there is no contradiction here at all on this.

[TheInquirer]

On 12/13/2013 12:50 PM, Zanzibar wrote:

...

Post by Zanzibar
They have lost their confidence in them. They have now decided to switch to their trust and confidence to their tuition teachers in tution centres instead. there is no contradiction here at all on this.

in the first place, why parents lost confidence in regular teachers?
also: why have so many good teachers left the teaching service to become
tutors? is it because of money, or is there some deeper reason?

do teachers actually teach the basics properly to ALL pupils (especially
to the poorer students who have no other choice)? why? is it because
they have a lot of other activities / responsibilities to take care of?
do they know to teach properly after their NIE training and subsequent
professional development courses? what about the management of
teachers? are teachers given full autonomy to design lessons
appropriate for the pupils? why are they still using the older
ineffective teaching methods in actual school despite what they have
learned in NIE? isn't it a waste of taxpayers' money to send them to
NIE training, but they don't apply what they have learnt in real-life
teaching?

instead of selfishly "solving" the problem by engaging tutors, why don't
parents apply political pressure to force the "garment" and the "silver
service" to become more accountable?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer
...

Post by Zanzibar
They have lost their confidence in them. They have now decided to switch to their trust and confidence to their tuition teachers in tution centres instead. there is no contradiction here at all on this.

in the first place, why parents lost confidence in regular teachers?
also: why have so many good teachers left the teaching service to become
tutors? is it because of money, or is there some deeper reason?

They begin to lose confidence and begin to distrust of the school teacher when their chilren did not meet their expectation from the school resuts from their examination.

To my knowledge of knowing some teachers who left, many found better jobs wher their hours of the days are not so long and prolonged.

They spent a lot of time in having to prepare themselves after normal school lesson hours to deliver remedial class to students in the afternoon, or spent their time in the marking of books and attending other staff meeting activity, etc.

Whereas in tuition centre, the tutor is only need to come to the class and conduct the prepared lessons to students.

They can also spare their extra tiem to give to particular students who are weak and still need special attention which in the course of giving was able to give confident boosting to the weak student who needs confidence building to do the problme solving on their own.

Somehow in all the above, there are necessary work required of the teachers. It is just that there is more confident and trsut in their tuition teacher in givign feed back to the parents on their children progression of their education in school.

Instead of knowing from their school specialist teacher of the outcome of their children in their specific subject, they depend on he tuition to advise of their outcome.

The diversion and digression become a norm for parents that school can become eroded and possible becoming irrelevant to them eventually to them.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
They begin to lose confidence and begin to distrust of the school teacher when their chilren did not meet their expectation from the school resuts from their examination.

"did not meet their expectation from the school"?? LOL

do you know if the children even learn the basics in school? do can
teachers actually teach properly? do they have all the time?

do schools purposely set exam questions that are more difficult and/or
beyond normal syllabus, or do they make things more interesting like
giving students role-playing scenario games?

Post by Zanzibar
To my knowledge of knowing some teachers who left, many found better jobs wher their hours of the days are not so long

so whose fault is it? system's fault? or school teachers fault? is
tuition the result or the cause of all these? which comes first?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
They begin to lose confidence and begin to distrust of the school teacher when their chilren did not meet their expectation from the school resuts from their examination.

"did not meet their expectation from the school"?? LOL

Yes, absolutely - they did not get their expectation from the school.

If they did get their expectation from their school, how come these parents began to migrate their children to tuition centre in order to seek confidence of help and assistance from them for their child when their school teachers in the school should have given them clear assurance to them of their seeking of confidence of help and assistance for their children?. Right?

Post by TheInquirer
do you know if the children even learn the basics in school? do can
teachers actually teach properly? do they have all the time?

No doubt children can learn basics in school as school does have the spacious space and the nurturing environment and the availabilty of trained teachers and trainers that have also the supervising skills and knowledges to raise and educate their students.

Yes, teachers actually do teach properly. Most teachers gone through teacher's training for two years had gained significant learning skils and knowledge of educating and teaching their students.

So, in short, because of their training of being a teacher, most do have a earnest desire to teach their students well.

Unfortunately, they have no promises to fulfill and deliver them. If they do, will have to keep his promise, you can be sure not they will not retreat the goods

Post by TheInquirer
do schools purposely set exam questions that are more difficult and/or
beyond normal syllabus, or do they make things more interesting like
giving students role-playing scenario games?

Post by Zanzibar
To my knowledge of knowing some teachers who left, many found better jobs wher their hours of the days are not so long

so whose fault is it? system's fault? or school teachers fault? is
tuition the result or the cause of all these? which comes first?

both have faults. The school system was not changed for many years and although the product may be good - like PISA score with second in the world on Mths, science and reading skils.

But, when come to students with speaking skills like oratorical skills such as stringing of words and sentences,they could not meet the standard.

And worse, despite of their first here and first that, they still could not compete or find good jobs of high salary.

This could be that the Singapore govt did not have companies to employ them to grow their confidence and experiences.

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer
...

Post by Zanzibar
This is worthy of consideration.

yes, agreed. are tuition centres the symptom or the cause of problems?
instead of aiming to get rid of tuition centres, why not make our
"garment" and "silver servants" more accountable? why not apply more
pressure to them to improve our normal school education ... take care of
less-privilege poorer people ... make it more wholistic?
--
Just answer the damn question(s), not the questioner! Don't
presume. My personal matters/beliefs are none of your
business. I ask, you answer. If you think I am stupid,
you have already proven that you are stupid, not me. If
you don't know the answer, can you please "pass" to other
people to answer? thanks.

Govt and civil servants have no accountability. If they have to have accountability, they will not get their 2.5 month bonus this year 2103 - i.e one 13th month guaranteed payment + one 14th month payment based on good performance of the GDP result, and 0.5 month payment in mid-year GDP performance for mid year reviewed in June 2013.

In any case, they do not have to care much about the outcome of the students they taught although the teachers promotions and career advancement were measured somewhat from the results of their students under their care.

But they still get their usual increment and 2.5 months bonus like everyone else gets. So who cares if they cannot improve their students when they at most lose their promotion of ggrade in their career when their bonus and increment were not affected at all.

[TheInquirer]

Post by Zanzibar
Govt and civil servants have no accountability.

LOL!

how come they still get to keep their jobs?

[Zanzibar]

Post by TheInquirer

Post by Zanzibar
Govt and civil servants have no accountability.

LOL!
how come they still get to keep their jobs?
--
Just answer the damn question(s), not the questioner! Don't
presume. My personal matters/beliefs are none of your
business. I ask, you answer. If you think I am stupid,
you have already proven that you are stupid, not me. If
you don't know the answer, can you please "pass" to other
people to answer? thanks.

The elected govt needs them to give them to give them support fires. Their support fires included of them and their family having to the casting of votes for them.

It's about I scratched your back and you scratched mine. And they tell them to remember of them in order not to miss them of their share of pay and bonus when they paid themselves rich. In short, they need each others as otherwise they could function themselves reluctantly with slow speed disintereted drive.

The civil servants and employees of other govt related companies formed more than 1/3 of the voting electorates in the voting population. Their voting support at the election is a "compulsory" requirment to them.

And they (the civil servants) need them to keep them in their employed, and ensuring they get 2.5 months of bonus every year with yearly annual increment and yearly grade promotion progression.

[Pelandok]

They may be wooden, but it is more important for them to be higher paid.

Post by Zanzibar

Post by h***@gmail.com
Singapore students may have scored brilliantly in PICA but there are clear and obvious weaknesses in the Singapore Education System.
1. Graduates from the Singapore Education System are very poor in communication skills especially oral and conversational skills. This has been very clear from interviews, be it for jobs or scholarship. Perfect academic results but cannot even clearly answer simple questions or conduct a decent conversation.
2. They also lack the Skills for living. Perfect academic result but cannot even cook an instant noodle, fold a blanket. This is the reality. The focus on academic results have led to many Singapore Students losing their ordinary living skills. They have forgotten how to be a normal human being. They are more like robots.
3. They lack social skills. Many just don't know how to handle themselves in a social gathering or setting. They lack the social graces, simple human decency like politeness. They lack humane values.

Why I agree with you is this is because I converse with many of them are like this, but unfortunately I found them to be lacking in fluency and not eloquent. d this included of many civil servants even up very high ranking in their minstry and this included of many MPs and ministers after having listened to them on TV news and interviews and radio 938.