Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaOn Friday, March 30, 2018 at 6:42:21 AM UTC-5, aaa
Post by aaaPost by MelzzzzzPost by aaaOn Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 6:12:48 PM UTC-5,
Post by aaaPost by Greywolfhttps://theatheistobserver.wordpress.com/2018/01/18/which-jesus-died-on-the-cross/
I'm anxious to view irrefutable proof to the contrary. Any out there?
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by aaaPost by MelzzzzzPost by aaaPost by aaaThe crucifixion isn't about death. It's about
defeating death.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge,
consciousness, intelligence, happiness, faith,
courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life
itself.
__________
You seem to have missed the whole point of the
post. The God Jesus could not have possibly
"died." The reason given leaves virtually no
doubt about it.
I have a sneaky suspicion you didn't even bother
to read it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But your
response sure seems like you didn't.
Have courage, reading the post may enlighten you.
It may give you a perspective you haven't
contemplated before.
To me, defeating death is more than simply die. So
talking about the death of Jesus is misleading.
After all, he didn't die. His faith in God has
withstood the threat of death. He didn't believe he
would die. With his example, he has shown us the
way of salvation. It's not about death. It's about
life in the resurrection Christ consciousness.
He didn't died, but he was berried and supposedly
resurrected...
He didn't die, but he did experience death on the
cross. His consciousness as man died, and his
consciousness as Christ rose from death. It's a battle
against death, and Christ has won because of the faith
of Jesus.
________________
Where is the WORLD did you pick up that utter nonsense
up from? You've made that all up, haven't you?
No, it's what I have learned and understood.
Only "his consciousness as a man died"? Sorry, all that
could possibly mean is that Jesus was "unconscious," not
dead. Your "conscious" dies when you're physically dead.
And I mean kicked the bucket. But Jesus never actually
died.
Not so. The body doesn't control life. It's the
consciousness that controls life.
Read that article before posting any more of your drivel.
At least we'll be working from the same playbook
Your article doesn't appear to match my understanding. You
need to upgrade a little bit.
____________
That's too bad because what you're trying to maintain as fact
is simply made-up nonsense. You couldn't prove it true to
save your life.
What I said is self-explanatory. I don't think I need to prove anything.
Yes, you do. You need to provide proof that the God Jesus
actually died.
Read the Gospels.
https://theatheistobserver.wordpress.com/2018/01/18/which-jesus-died-on-the-cross/
No, read the Gospels. The Bible is the only spiritual authority in this
world.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfIf your brain, which is part of your physical body ceases to
function altogether, you'll be dead. So "No," you're wrong.
The conscious doesn't "control life." It's the brain that
keeps you alive.
That's only what appears to you, but people on life support
often do have a functioning brain without consciousness.
Medically, they might be considered as alive, but in actuality,
they are no different from being dead. So only consciousness
can decide whether one is alive or not.
People on life support may appear to be dead, they're still
alive. Their brain may not be functioning as it should, but
they're not dead, only unconscious.
Without consciousness means without a living soul.
There's no proof whatever that a "soul" forms an actual part of the
human body. It's really nothing more than a figure of speech, when
you break it down.
The soul is the human mind. The human mind isn't any magical thing in
the brain. It's spiritual having an intelligent spiritual ability that
physical things are not capable to have or demonstrate.
Post by GreywolfScience can determine whether you're conscious or not. But there's no
way of determining whether this "soul" of yours is living or dead.
And that's because it's not measurable nor detectable.
Consciousness is what forms the soul. They are the same thing.
Post by GreywolfIt's just a body
Post by aaawaiting for the soul to return. It's no different from being dead.
There's more of your made-up stuff again. But even if I grant that a
soul is an actual "thing," the God in Jesus' "soul" never left. It
remained within Jesus's body throughout the entire Passion and death.
You seem to want to have Jesus be two separate bodies in one. But
Jesus was a combination of deity and humanity forming only ONE
entity, not two.
No, there is only one consciousness coming from God to form the soul of
Jesus. Jesus, by being the lamb of God, has taken the sin of the world
on his soul to show us how to defeat sin and death on the cross. There
are no two separate entities occupying the body of Jesus.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfBut more to the point, since Jesus was 100% Deity as *well*
as 100% human inextricably bound together forming ONE entity,
the conscious of Jesus the Man-God could never have "died"!
He was ONE entity, One God, One being. A combination of deity
and humanity born as ONE creature.
That's a generalization.
That's scriptural.
According to your interpretation.
Prove your point using scripture alone. And I'll find bible texts
that will flatly contradict it.
That's only because you have already misinterpreted the scripture. There
is no amount of the scripture that can stop you from misinterpreting it.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfThe consciousness of men is fallible to sin.
Post by aaaThe consciousness of God is infallible to sin. They are not
the same consciousness.
I'm just beginning work on the so-called "Hypostatic Union" of
Christ, but to claim that Jesus had a veritable "two brains"
in-one is laughable.
It's not about the brain. It's about the consciousness of the mind
coming from the heart.
That's just theological gibberish. Consciousness is centered in the
brain. Do you actually believe that when someone has a heart
transplant that they're getting a new "conscious" and losing their
"old" one?
Actually, the answer is yes.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfHe was composed of deity AND man as ONE hybrid entity. Jesus'
composition was that of a singular Man-God who *acted* as a
singular creature.
This is open for interpretation.
Again, prove your point using scripture. I'll then present you with
bible verse that contradicts it.
This is not based on scripture alone. It's also based on the
understanding of the scripture.
Post by GreywolfThe consciousness from the spirit in
Post by aaaour heart is pure without sin.
Would that be "sin" your God purposely created when he Had the "evil
serpent He created trick Eve into "sinning"?
What does that have anything to do with my actual point?
Post by GreywolfIt's only contaminated by the sin in our
Post by aaamind to become the fallible human consciousness.
What "sin in our mind"? Oh, you mean, say, impure thoughts, that an
individual is never going to act upon?
Not exactly. They are symptoms instead of the actual cause. The sin in
the mind is the original sin.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfTrying to assert that Jesus had two separate "natures" is nothing
but a man-made concoction made up by the Church. But I have to
hold my fire on this point until I do more research. But in the
meantime I *have* done work on the "Kenosis Argument" which is
related to the Hypostatic Union argument.
https://theatheistobserver.wordpress.com/2018/03/28/the-god-jesus-on-the-date-of-his-second-coming-part-1/
As you can see, it's an argument that falls flat on its face.
What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?
What's the matter? Talking to yourself?
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfThe Salvation of Jesus is to show us the resurrection of
Post by aaathe consciousness of God that is called Christ consciousness.
I don't know how I can make this any plainer: The consciousness
of the God part of Jesus of Nazareth NEVER died. It couldn't
have, Jesus was a God. Even if the conscious of the human part of
Jesus somehow died, the God part of Jesus never did. So while
Jesus was undergoing the Passion, the total consciousness
remained alive due to the fact that Jesus was deity.
God's consciousness never dies,
That's precisely why we can say Jesus never really died. Thanks for
buttressing my point for me.
That still doesn't change the fact he did experience and conquer death.
Post by Greywolfbut such consciousness in a human has
Post by aaabeen tainted by sin to become fallible. It's the same
consciousness, but it's different from what it's supposed to be.
God's consciousness will never die, but human consciousness is
possible to die.
What in the *world* does that have to do with the pretend death of Jesus?
There is no pretense. That's just your speculation.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfAt best, Jesus can only be said to have been unconscious. You
can't pretend that the human in Jesus was separate from the God
in Him. Both God and Man were completely intertwined to form ONE
being.
You are the one who tries to separate God and man. I disagree with
your opinion.
Would that be a God (or three Gods) that you couldn't POSSIBLY prove
exists? Would that be the make-believe God, the non-existent God, the
completely made-up God, or the completely imaginary one?
There is only one God who is the truth you don't want to see and understand.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfIn claiming that Jesus' "consciousness as man died, and his
consciousness as Christ rose from death" you're implying
that the consciousness of the God part of Jesus died as
well--and then came back to life. But even *you* would have
to agree that at no point did the God part of Jesus actually
"die."
We, as sinners, have lost our consciousness of God when we
committed the original sin by learning the knowledge of good
and evil.
https://theatheistobserver.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/on-god-and-evil-about-that-tree-of-knowledge/
What is that? Another of your misinterpretation of the Bible?
Nope. It's based entirely on the Bible.
According to your misinterpretation, yes.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfWe only have
Post by aaathe consciousness of man. Our consciousness of God has been
dead since the day we sinned for the first time.
Whose fault is that? Pssst. Read the article.
It has nothing to do with anyone's fault. It's what happened to mankind.
By a God who's Divine Plan *insured* man was to sin. I guess because
He's such a sadist--creating very evil itself, and all--that He
wanted billions of men and women (and even children) to suffer
*eternal* damnation. A few years, I guess, was just being to damn
nice.
That's still just your misinterpretation of the Bible and your stupid
blame game of the sin. It only shows your own ignorance about the actual
issue.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfWhat Jesus did was to show us how
Post by aaato resurrect our consciousness of God so that we can be free
from sin and suffering.
According to the "Good Book," Jesus had to "die" in order for
that other God to redeem man's sins.
That's your interpretation. I have said it already. It's not about
death. It's about defeating death.
But if Jesus never truly "died," He *didn't* pay the price required
by that other God to absolve man of his sins. Capisce?
If one doesn't experience death, how can one defeat death?
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfSince the God part of Jesus never actually died, "Jesus"
never actually died. It's that simple.
I disagree. Jesus was born a man like everyone else. He called
himself the son of man. His divine consciousness was not fully
realized until resurrection.
Baloney. Jesus could read the minds of people, raise people from
the dead, and positively know the future. Read John 1:1 in
conjunction with John 1:14 and tell me that Jesus wasn't a
deity.
Despite all of that, he is still just an ordinary man.
Now see, scripture proves you wrong. But what do *you* do? Why, make
up you own theology and try promoting it, in of all places, an
ATHEIST forum. Hell, your nonsense wouldn't fly in a Christian forum
let alone an atheist one..
What are you *thinking*?!!
I think the scripture should prove me right instead because there is
nothing in scripture that shows Jesus having any kind of worldly skills
that can make him special. He is only a carpenter who is likely unemployed.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfRegarding being actually died, that's open for
Post by aaainterpretation.
Not really. You can believe anything you want, but the clear
evidence is that Jesus of Nazareth never actually died. He
couldn't because He was "God on earth," so Christian apologists
tell us.
The fact remains that he did experience death and conquer death.
No he didn't! Gods don't die.
Yes, he did. That's what makes him special because he is the man who
conquered death.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfSpiritually speaking, giving up one's own consciousness
Post by aaais the same as being dead.
Sorry, but giving up one's consciousness leads to one being
"unconscious."
That's no different from being dead.
Oh, but it is different. Your dead body has no conscious. Your alive body does.
According to medical science, a living body can have no consciousness.
Spiritually speaking, it's no different from being dead.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfIt's more real than the actual physical death.
Post by aaaI agree Jesus didn't die, but I disagree he didn't actually
experience death.
Hmmmm! Let me catch my breath here. I'm trying to figure out just
how crazy of a statement that is.
Hold on, I'm still trying to figure out how that can actually be rational reply.
Nope it isn't!
He was physically dead for three days. You can't dispute that.
Oh yes I can. Since He was deity, he *couldn't have died. End of story.
That's just your imagination. The spirit of life can leave the body and
return at his own will. You can't decide what God wants to do.
Post by GreywolfBut let me bring up another point: In Matthew 16:21 Jesus says He
will arise from the dead "on the third day," making that Easter
Sunday. But in Mark 8:31, Jesus claims He will arise three days AFTER
his death, making it Monday. In Matthew 12:40 Jesus says He'll be
buried "three days AND three nights," also making it on Monday.
Irrelevant. Human errors are not forbidden in the writing of the
scripture. It only proves human errors can't overshadow the truth of God.
Post by Greywolfhttps://theatheistobserver.wordpress.com/2016/03/10/on-what-day-was-jesus-to-arise-from-the-dead-part-iv-the-conclusion/
and you'll see that the Resurrection would have had to occur on SATURDAY.
Read the article if you want to be a better informed Christian.
Post by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfEven arguing that the consciousness of the human part of
Jesus "died," you're still stuck with the fact that the
consciousness of the God part of Jesus never did. It was
conscious throughout the whole time Jesus is said to have
been dead.
Now tell me that isn't true.
That isn't true because Jesus never claimed to be God. He
never claimed to be incapable to sin. He was just an ordinary
man like everyone else.
That is a positively minority opinion and has no basis in fact
when compared to certain passages in scripture.
I don't have to make Jesus a God in disguise.
He's considered God incarnate by an overwhelming majority of the
world's Christians. Besides, its' scriptural. There's no getting
around itl
I don't have to disagree with that if all humans are considered God
incarnate also. I don't have to elevate the status of Jesus for
religious purposes since I have no such purpose. God made Jesus to live
among men. God never intended for Jesus to rule over men, and Jesus
never ruled over men either. Jesus will always be a fellow friend of
every man.
Post by GreywolfIf he is a God in
Post by aaadisguise, then everyone on earth is also a God in disguise.
Hey everybody! Look at me! I'm an atheist God!!!
Nope. You are just a blind man who doesn't know the Christ within you.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfSo the being known as Jesus of Nazareth never actually died.
He didn't die, but he did experience death. That's why he
defeated death. He passed through death and realized his
divine consciousness.
Please explain how a person who never really dies, dies.
It's possible for the human consciousness to die.
Yeah, along with the rest of the body. But Jesus was NOT 100% human.
John 1:1, 14 proves *that*!
False interpretation.
Post by GreywolfAnyone who has the
Post by aaahuman consciousness can die.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfRead that and weep. Maybe you'll come to your senses and
realize what a load of malarkey you've been brainwashed
with.
That only shows your lack of understanding.
No, you've clearly shown that you've been brainwashed beyond
repair. That's just the way it is. But you have every right to
believe what you want to believe. Hell, believe there's cows
grazing on the moon if you want to. But that doesn't make it
true.
What I said is quite simple and easy to understand. It should have
nothing to do with any kind of brainwashing.
Oh, but it is. You would not believe half the nonsense you do if it
hadn't been drilled into your head at some point earlier in your
life. You'd have never have dreamt up a God who is three Gods in one
on your own. And you would never have explained the existence of evil
in the world by claiming it's because a woman ate an apple she was
told not to eat.
Sounds a bit ridiculous now, doesn't it?
No, I do learn everything from the world, but that doesn't mean that I'm
brainwashed by the world.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfDon't get me wrong. I truly admire and respect those who I
perceive to be true, honest Christians for the dignified,
honorable way they carry themselves. They're truly good
people. It's just that their religious beliefs have been
built upon one lie after another, with no basis in fact.
That would be your misunderstanding.
Baloney. Just remember this: Not a single human being in the
entire history of mankind has EVER provided irrefutable proof for
the actual existence of "God." NEVER. What does *that* tell you?
The Bible can be ripped to shreds for the amount mistranslation,
historical error, unscientific nonsense, forgery, interpolation,
false prophecy, and out-and-out fraud surrounding it.
Spare me.
If we lived in ancient Greece, I have no doubt you would be
telling me how Zeus was worthy of worship as well. Probably based
on a "gut-feeling" that he's real.
No, the teaching of Jesus is proof enough for anyone to follow Jesus.
Jesus certainly had some very wise things to say, but He was no more
brilliant than any number of ancient wise men.
That's not my point. I'm talking about the truth found and realized in
life that proves the teaching of Jesus. It's the same truth. Therefore,
following the teaching of Jesus is our only way to know the truth.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaIt's our guiding light on our journey to God. Anyone who has been
on such journey will testify for his teaching.
You're referring to a God who deliberately created very evil
itself--when He didn't have to; who supplies Satan with his evil
powers to lead man further into sin instead of wiping him and every
form of evil right out of existence. He's a God who punishes feeble,
puny, hapless man with *eternal* suffering when He could be
infinitely more "loving."
False understanding.
Post by GreywolfIn shore, this God you worship, adore, and like to promote is as evil as it gets.
Greywolf’s 1st Dictum: There can be no greater evil in all of
existence than the Creator of Evil. (I’m referring to the God Jesus,
of course. The conscious, deliberate, act of creating very evil is,
in itself, inherently evil. Try thinking of an act even remotely
more evil. End of story.)
False.
Post by GreywolfGreywolf’s 2nd Dictum: If if happened, God wanted it to. If He
didn’t, it would never have happened. (Assuming God actually exists,
of course. Note: This would include every human tragedy, every evil
to befall man. Would it not? It’s A sobering conclusion that needs to
be honestly dealt with by every God believer. The God named Jesus (as
opposed to “God the Father”) willfully created very evil itself when
he didn’t have to. Ask yourself if that wasn’t being evil in the
extreme. See John 1:3.
False.
Post by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfPost by aaaPost by GreywolfThat is simply the truth, sad to say. It really is.
Oh, by the way: Since Jesus never really died, that must
mean that God the Father--you know, that *other* God--hasn't
forgiven mankind of its "sins." The price for man's
redemption, the Good Book tells us, was for Jesus to "die" on
the cross. So that means God the Father's "bill" has never
been paid in full.
As you can now see, He never really did.
How about *them* apples!
What apples? You never said a word about the apples.
It's a figure of speech.
That must be one confused apple.
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness,
intelligence, happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom,
and life itself.
--
God's spiritual evidence:
Truth, love, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, consciousness, intelligence,
happiness, faith, courage, justice, peace, freedom, and life itself.