Gina Miller at it again!

[harry]

https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/

Where does she get the money from?

[MM]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 23:49:40 -0800 (PST), harry

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

Do you deny her right to do what is legal?

MM

[Norman Wells]

Post by MM
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 23:49:40 -0800 (PST), harry

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

Do you deny her right to do what is legal?

Are you a daffodil?

Well, if we're going to ask each other random unrelated questions ....

[Let It Be]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by MM
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 23:49:40 -0800 (PST), harry

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

Do you deny her right to do what is legal?

Are you a daffodil?
Well, if we're going to ask each other random unrelated questions ....

But surely that's what the Brexit idiots wanted? The UK run buy the UK - and
surely that means anyone is allowed to freely ask whatever questions they
wish?

Or is it the ultimate Brexit intent for the UK to become a dictatorship run
by a 'Chief' Brexiteer (and it's reasonably obvious who wants that job [and
it's *NOT* 'Farridge])?

[Jethro_uk]

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-

to-derail-brexit/

Post by harry
Where does she get the money from?

from some of the 48% who didn't vote for leave.

Why - it's almost like there are some people who don't want to leave the
EU. Who'd have thunk it ?

[The Todal]

Post by harry

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-

to-derail-brexit/

Post by harry
Where does she get the money from?

from some of the 48% who didn't vote for leave.
Why - it's almost like there are some people who don't want to leave the
EU. Who'd have thunk it ?

I think Gina Miller uses her own money. She may not be as rich as the
Brexiters' hero Donald J. Trump, but she has plenty of money.

There was a crowdfunding appeal to which I contributed a hundred quid,
but it was for a separate group of claimants, Grahame Pigney and Others
(known colloquially as People's Challenge). The court actions were
consolidated and were heard together.

For more info, and the opportunity to contribute to the Second People's
Challenge, go to:
https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/parliament-should-decide/

[Jethro_uk]

Post by The Todal

Post by harry

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-

to-derail-brexit/

Post by harry
Where does she get the money from?

from some of the 48% who didn't vote for leave.
Why - it's almost like there are some people who don't want to leave
the EU. Who'd have thunk it ?

I think Gina Miller uses her own money. She may not be as rich as the
Brexiters' hero Donald J. Trump, but she has plenty of money.
There was a crowdfunding appeal to which I contributed a hundred quid,
but it was for a separate group of claimants, Grahame Pigney and Others
(known colloquially as People's Challenge). The court actions were
consolidated and were heard together.
For more info, and the opportunity to contribute to the Second People's
https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/parliament-should-decide/

The development of crowdfunding (formerly known as "by public
subscription") is an interesting one. Taken to the logical conclusion (or
reductio ad absurbem) it suggests that the days of monolithic political
parties is coming to an end.

I am intrigued how the Labour and Tory candidates will craft their appeal
to the remain majority constituency of Gorton ? Will party loyalty trump
the voters EU sentiments ?

[tim...]

Post by Jethro_uk

Post by The Todal

Post by harry

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-

to-derail-brexit/

Post by harry
Where does she get the money from?

from some of the 48% who didn't vote for leave.
Why - it's almost like there are some people who don't want to leave
the EU. Who'd have thunk it ?

I think Gina Miller uses her own money. She may not be as rich as the
Brexiters' hero Donald J. Trump, but she has plenty of money.
There was a crowdfunding appeal to which I contributed a hundred quid,
but it was for a separate group of claimants, Grahame Pigney and Others
(known colloquially as People's Challenge). The court actions were
consolidated and were heard together.
For more info, and the opportunity to contribute to the Second People's
https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/parliament-should-decide/

The development of crowdfunding (formerly known as "by public
subscription") is an interesting one. Taken to the logical conclusion (or
reductio ad absurbem) it suggests that the days of monolithic political
parties is coming to an end.
I am intrigued how the Labour and Tory candidates will craft their appeal
to the remain majority constituency of Gorton ? Will party loyalty trump
the voters EU sentiments ?

a 24,079 majority looks insurmountable whatever hook you try to challenge on

tim

[Fredxxx]

Post by harry

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-

to-derail-brexit/

Post by harry
Where does she get the money from?

from some of the 48% who didn't vote for leave.

I thought it was 34.7% of the electorate who voted remain?

Post by harry
Why - it's almost like there are some people who don't want to leave the
EU. Who'd have thunk it ?

They tend have delusions of grandeur and believe they can impose their
will above those of the electorate.

Who'd have thunk it?

[Ophelia]

"harry" wrote in message news:04eff1c1-4f41-4f44-b22d-***@googlegroups.com...

https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/

Where does she get the money from?

====

Crowd funding. Probably those rich arrogant bastards who think they can
control everything.

[The Todal]

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?
====
Crowd funding. Probably those rich arrogant bastards who think they can
control everything.

Wrong again. Is there no limit to your ignorance which, like a tsunami
of immigrants, threatens to wash you out of your home and into the sea?

[steve robinson]

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?
====
Crowd funding. Probably those rich arrogant bastards who think they can
control everything.

About time someone dropped her in the middle of the ocean

[Ophelia]

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?
====
Crowd funding. Probably those rich arrogant bastards who think they can
control everything.

About time someone dropped her in the middle of the ocean

===

lol that sounds fair enough to me:))

[Yellow]

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

She is married to "Multi-millionaire Alan Miller, the original 'Mr Hedge
Fund'"

You have to admire her tenacity I suppose - it looks like she has failed
to stop Brexit the first time because unfortunately for her, Parliament
(so far) have decided to respect the result of the referendum so now she
is staging an attack up the rear.

It was inevitable.

But was is interesting to me is that she claimed and claimed and claimed
that her reason for court action in the first place was because of
democracy, Parliament needed to decide - but now in is in Parliament and
they are deciding.

They are deciding, as we speak, what sort of vote, if any, there should
be at the end of the process.

Now however it seems she is not happy with Parliamentary democracy after
all.

But then we all knew that was not what it was about, and it still isn't.

[The Todal]

Post by Yellow

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

She is married to "Multi-millionaire Alan Miller, the original 'Mr Hedge
Fund'"
You have to admire her tenacity I suppose - it looks like she has failed
to stop Brexit the first time because unfortunately for her, Parliament
(so far) have decided to respect the result of the referendum so now she
is staging an attack up the rear.
It was inevitable.
But was is interesting to me is that she claimed and claimed and claimed
that her reason for court action in the first place was because of
democracy, Parliament needed to decide - but now in is in Parliament and
they are deciding.
They are deciding, as we speak, what sort of vote, if any, there should
be at the end of the process.
Now however it seems she is not happy with Parliamentary democracy after
all.

Why do you imagine that? If she is asking for more Parliamentary control
over our exit from the EU and you're objecting to that, it seems that
you're the one who isn't happy with Parliamentary democracy.

Post by Yellow
But then we all knew that was not what it was about, and it still isn't.

Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.

I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of Theresa
May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no constitutional law.

To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give control
back to Parliament, where it belongs.

Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/

Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly object to?

[The Todal]

Post by The Todal
Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.
I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of Theresa
May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no constitutional law.
To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give control
back to Parliament, where it belongs.
Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/
Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly object to?

And there have been some very perceptive speeches in the House of Lords.
Maybe you believe that the Lords should all be made to shut up and suck
it up, in the interests of, er, Parliamentary sovereignty?

For instance:


Invoking Article 50 is the inevitable consequence of the referendum
result last year. There is no alternative but to do that. I am being
consistent here. Throughout the Scottish referendum campaign, in which I
played some part, I made it very clear that the result would be binding.
If we voted to leave, that was it; there was no going back. For the sake
of consistency, and because I happen to think it is right as a matter of
democratic principle, if we ask people what they think and they come
back with an answer, even if we do not like the answer, we have to go
along with it. There is no point in trying to rerun the arguments that
should frankly have been made with more force on my side last year. It
did not work and we now have that result. It is now up to us to ensure
that we try to shape things so that we get the best possible result for
the United Kingdom, as the noble Lord has just said.

However, that will not be easy. I also, of course, part company with the
many who have spoken who take a different view from mine—mainly from the
Benches opposite—who are more or less inviting us to give the Prime
Minister and the Government a blank cheque. I am not prepared to do
that. The problem is this: whereas a narrow majority, but a majority
none the less, voted for us to leave the European Union last year—we
know what they are against—there was no plan B, no alternative on the
ballot paper. It is not at all clear exactly what people were voting
for. The truth is that there will be a whole spectrum of people who
voted to leave the European Union and will not be happy until we treat
it as any other third country—keeping it at a distance—and those who
just wanted a rearrangement and a slightly different sense of direction.

The problem is that the leavers did not expect to win and the remainers
thought they would, and the result was that there was no plan B waiting
to be taken down. That is why we get the impression that the Government
over the last few months have been very much making up matters on the
hoof and why we have a White Paper which must be the thinnest government
publication I have ever seen—I say that having been a Member of a
Government for 13 years. This has precious little to commend it.​

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2017-02-21/debates/5061080A-55F6-4500-91D4-10EC50BBC33C/EuropeanUnion(NotificationOfWithdrawal)Bill

[Yellow]

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal
Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.
I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of Theresa
May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no constitutional law.
To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give control
back to Parliament, where it belongs.
Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/
Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly object to?

And there have been some very perceptive speeches in the House of Lords.
Maybe you believe that the Lords should all be made to shut up and suck
it up, in the interests of, er, Parliamentary sovereignty?

Instead of telling me what you think I think, perhaps you should simply
ask me.

But like your posts yesterday declaring that "all Brexiters suck Trump's
dick" you seem to be soothing your brow with the idea that all 17
million who voted to leave the EU are ignorant or stupid or racist or
right-wing fascists or whatever else you want to believe to convince
yourself that you are right simply because you are none of these things.

It isn't pretty.

[The Todal]

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal
Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.
I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of Theresa
May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no constitutional law.
To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give control
back to Parliament, where it belongs.
Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/
Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly object to?

And there have been some very perceptive speeches in the House of Lords.
Maybe you believe that the Lords should all be made to shut up and suck
it up, in the interests of, er, Parliamentary sovereignty?

Instead of telling me what you think I think, perhaps you should simply
ask me.
But like your posts yesterday declaring that "all Brexiters suck Trump's
dick" you seem to be soothing your brow with the idea that all 17
million who voted to leave the EU are ignorant or stupid or racist or
right-wing fascists or whatever else you want to believe to convince
yourself that you are right simply because you are none of these things.
It isn't pretty.

How odd. I never said that all Brexiters suck Trump's dick. Maybe you
spend too much of your time worrying about whether you really are one of
the bigoted masses who want to beat up immigrants. I'm quite sure you
aren't, but perhaps you need that reassurance.

The Brits who keep speaking up in support of Donald J. Trump tend to be
Leave voters. It doesn't follow that all Leave voters support Trump. Why
do this small subset of Leave voters feel the need to speak up in
support of Trump?

It isn't pretty.

[Yellow]

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by The Todal

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal
Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.
I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of Theresa
May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no constitutional law.
To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give control
back to Parliament, where it belongs.
Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/
Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly object to?

And there have been some very perceptive speeches in the House of Lords.
Maybe you believe that the Lords should all be made to shut up and suck
it up, in the interests of, er, Parliamentary sovereignty?

Instead of telling me what you think I think, perhaps you should simply
ask me.
But like your posts yesterday declaring that "all Brexiters suck Trump's
dick" you seem to be soothing your brow with the idea that all 17
million who voted to leave the EU are ignorant or stupid or racist or
right-wing fascists or whatever else you want to believe to convince
yourself that you are right simply because you are none of these things.
It isn't pretty.

How odd. I never said that all Brexiters suck Trump's dick.

I was paraphrasing your reply to Ophelia but that is pretty much what
you said.

Post by The Todal
Maybe you
spend too much of your time worrying about whether you really are one of
the bigoted masses who want to beat up immigrants. I'm quite sure you
aren't, but perhaps you need that reassurance.
The Brits who keep speaking up in support of Donald J. Trump tend to be
Leave voters. It doesn't follow that all Leave voters support Trump.

That isn't what you said yesterday.

Post by The Todal
Why
do this small subset of Leave voters feel the need to speak up in
support of Trump?
It isn't pretty.

If people want to support Trump that is their business, like your
bizarre support for Corbyn is yours.

[Ophelia]

"Yellow" wrote in message news:***@News.Individual.NET...

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by The Todal

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal
Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.
I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of Theresa
May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no constitutional law.
To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give control
back to Parliament, where it belongs.
Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/
Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly object to?

And there have been some very perceptive speeches in the House of Lords.
Maybe you believe that the Lords should all be made to shut up and suck
it up, in the interests of, er, Parliamentary sovereignty?

Instead of telling me what you think I think, perhaps you should simply
ask me.
But like your posts yesterday declaring that "all Brexiters suck Trump's
dick" you seem to be soothing your brow with the idea that all 17
million who voted to leave the EU are ignorant or stupid or racist or
right-wing fascists or whatever else you want to believe to convince
yourself that you are right simply because you are none of these things.
It isn't pretty.

How odd. I never said that all Brexiters suck Trump's dick.

I was paraphrasing your reply to Ophelia but that is pretty much what
you said.



Ahh I have him filtered. Gosh whatever
did I miss <g>


If people want to support Trump that is their business, like your
bizarre support for Corbyn is yours.

He can't possibly assimilate that. He is
a superior being you know LOL

[The Todal]

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by The Todal
How odd. I never said that all Brexiters suck Trump's dick.

I was paraphrasing your reply to Ophelia but that is pretty much what
you said.

So you aren't very good at paraphrasing. Never mind. You probably have
other skills.

[pamela]

Post by Yellow

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal
Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.
I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of
Theresa May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no
constitutional law.
To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give
control back to Parliament, where it belongs.
Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/
Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly
object to?

And there have been some very perceptive speeches in the House
of Lords. Maybe you believe that the Lords should all be made
to shut up and suck it up, in the interests of, er,
Parliamentary sovereignty?

Instead of telling me what you think I think, perhaps you should
simply ask me.
But like your posts yesterday declaring that "all Brexiters suck
Trump's dick" you seem to be soothing your brow with the idea
that all 17 million who voted to leave the EU are ignorant or
stupid or racist or right-wing fascists or whatever else you
want to believe to convince yourself that you are right simply
because you are none of these things.
It isn't pretty.

The repeated refrain of "the majority voted for Brexit and Brexit
means anything we want it to mean" is getting tired.

As Gina Miller's law suit showed, the referendum is advisory and
it can not overrule parliamentary sovereignty to decide exactly
what to do.

The biggest fear Brexiteers seem to have is that they may not be
able to demand all the terms and conditions mentioned during the
referendum campaign by various politicans with no authority
whatsoever.

[Incubus]

Post by The Todal

Post by The Todal
Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.
I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of Theresa
May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no constitutional law.
To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give control
back to Parliament, where it belongs.
Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/
Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly object to?

And there have been some very perceptive speeches in the House of Lords.
Maybe you believe that the Lords should all be made to shut up and suck
it up, in the interests of, er, Parliamentary sovereignty?
Invoking Article 50 is the inevitable consequence of the referendum
result last year. There is no alternative but to do that. I am being
consistent here. Throughout the Scottish referendum campaign, in which I
played some part, I made it very clear that the result would be binding.
If we voted to leave, that was it; there was no going back. For the sake
of consistency, and because I happen to think it is right as a matter of
democratic principle, if we ask people what they think and they come
back with an answer, even if we do not like the answer, we have to go
along with it. There is no point in trying to rerun the arguments that
should frankly have been made with more force on my side last year. It
did not work and we now have that result. It is now up to us to ensure
that we try to shape things so that we get the best possible result for
the United Kingdom, as the noble Lord has just said.
However, that will not be easy. I also, of course, part company with the
many who have spoken who take a different view from mine—mainly from the
Benches opposite—who are more or less inviting us to give the Prime
Minister and the Government a blank cheque. I am not prepared to do
that. The problem is this: whereas a narrow majority, but a majority
none the less, voted for us to leave the European Union last year—we
know what they are against—there was no plan B, no alternative on the
ballot paper. It is not at all clear exactly what people were voting
for.

It was clear what people voted for. It stated what a Leave result entailed in the pro-Remain leaflets that David Cameron spent £9.3million sending out.

[Yellow]

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by The Todal

Post by Yellow
Now however it seems she is not happy with Parliamentary democracy after
all.

Why do you imagine that?
If she is asking for more Parliamentary control
over our exit from the EU and you're objecting to that, it seems that
you're the one who isn't happy with Parliamentary democracy.

Post by Yellow
But then we all knew that was not what it was about, and it still isn't.

Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.
I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of Theresa
May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no constitutional law.
To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give control
back to Parliament, where it belongs.

I was under the impression it is now 100% with Parliament, no royal
prerogative - but you are claiming this not to be the case?

Post by The Todal
Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/
Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly object to?

I did not say I objected to it, because I don't - she is entitled to do
this if she so wishes. I am simply commentating on the stories she has
already told us and how they relate to her current behaviour and any new
stories told.

And surely, you cannot object to that.

[pamela]

Post by Yellow

Post by The Todal

Post by Yellow
In article
Now however it seems she is not happy with Parliamentary
democracy after all.

Why do you imagine that?
If she is asking for more Parliamentary control
over our exit from the EU and you're objecting to that, it
seems that you're the one who isn't happy with Parliamentary
democracy.

Post by Yellow
But then we all knew that was not what it was about, and it
still isn't.

Presumably you saw her on the Andrew Marr show.
I *know* it was about curbing the power-grabbing ambitions of
Theresa May, a mediocre politician who knows little or no
constitutional law.
To prevent her making unconstitutional decisions, and to give
control back to Parliament, where it belongs.

I was under the impression it is now 100% with Parliament, no
royal prerogative - but you are claiming this not to be the
case?

Theresa May has attempted, with some success, to put the process
under party control by assigning her placemen on the committees
she set up.

Furthermore she has cowed her MPs, apart from Kenneth Clarke, into
voting for her approach despite their widespread belief they would
be doing more for constitutency and country by opposing some
aspects of it.

Post by Yellow

Post by The Todal
Here's the website.
http://campaign2018.org/
Just a letter, no request for funds. What can you possibly
object to?

I did not say I objected to it, because I don't - she is
entitled to do this if she so wishes. I am simply commentating
on the stories she has already told us and how they relate to
her current behaviour and any new stories told.
And surely, you cannot object to that.

Gina Miller brought a fair case for a fair decision in a fair
court. Strange how that upsets some people.

[Ophelia]

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

She is married to "Multi-millionaire Alan Miller, the original 'Mr Hedge
Fund'"

You have to admire her tenacity I suppose - it looks like she has failed
to stop Brexit the first time because unfortunately for her, Parliament
(so far) have decided to respect the result of the referendum so now she
is staging an attack up the rear.

It was inevitable.

But was is interesting to me is that she claimed and claimed and claimed
that her reason for court action in the first place was because of
democracy, Parliament needed to decide - but now in is in Parliament and
they are deciding.

They are deciding, as we speak, what sort of vote, if any, there should
be at the end of the process.

Now however it seems she is not happy with Parliamentary democracy after
all.

But then we all knew that was not what it was about, and it still isn't.
===

I think her ego is coming into play here ...

[pamela]

Post by Yellow
In article

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-
new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

She is married to "Multi-millionaire Alan Miller, the original
'Mr Hedge Fund'"
You have to admire her tenacity I suppose - it looks like she
has failed to stop Brexit the first time because unfortunately
for her, Parliament (so far) have decided to respect the result
of the referendum so now she is staging an attack up the rear.
It was inevitable.
But was is interesting to me is that she claimed and claimed and
claimed that her reason for court action in the first place was
because of democracy, Parliament needed to decide - but now in
is in Parliament and they are deciding.
They are deciding, as we speak, what sort of vote, if any, there
should be at the end of the process.
Now however it seems she is not happy with Parliamentary
democracy after all.
But then we all knew that was not what it was about, and it
still isn't. ===
I think her ego is coming into play here ...

Gina Miller has failed to succumb to all the character
assassinations and mind reading she has been subjected to.

The end result is that she has made the role of Parliament clearer
in oppositng false mandates claimed by some Brexiteers.

Even Farage conceded to Gina Miller in person that the referendum
was advisory. If others had shown better grace about it then her
court case would not need to have been brought.

[The Todal]

Post by pamela

Post by Yellow
In article

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-
new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

She is married to "Multi-millionaire Alan Miller, the original
'Mr Hedge Fund'"
You have to admire her tenacity I suppose - it looks like she
has failed to stop Brexit the first time because unfortunately
for her, Parliament (so far) have decided to respect the result
of the referendum so now she is staging an attack up the rear.
It was inevitable.
But was is interesting to me is that she claimed and claimed and
claimed that her reason for court action in the first place was
because of democracy, Parliament needed to decide - but now in
is in Parliament and they are deciding.
They are deciding, as we speak, what sort of vote, if any, there
should be at the end of the process.
Now however it seems she is not happy with Parliamentary
democracy after all.
But then we all knew that was not what it was about, and it
still isn't. ===
I think her ego is coming into play here ...

Gina Miller has failed to succumb to all the character
assassinations and mind reading she has been subjected to.
The end result is that she has made the role of Parliament clearer
in oppositng false mandates claimed by some Brexiteers.
Even Farage conceded to Gina Miller in person that the referendum
was advisory. If others had shown better grace about it then her
court case would not need to have been brought.

Well said, Pamela.

Gina Miller has been subjected to hateful messages and threats of death,
rape and mutilation. And in this group a chap called Steve says that
Gina Miller should be dropped into the ocean, and Ophelia approves of that.

These are supposedly examples of the sane, level headed voters who
carefully weighed up the pros and cons of leaving the EU and made a
rational decision.

I know Nigel Farage has also been subjected to hate mail, as he
mentioned in his Piers Morgan interview. But he has actively sought the
limelight. He enjoys being provocative and he claims that he is
indifferent to the hate mail and the jeering. Gina Miller isn't
indifferent to hate mail and neither are the various female MPs who have
been threatened with violence from extreme left wing activists, racists
and antisemites, some claiming to be doing it in support of Corbyn. We
have a poisonous political atmosphere and a section of Leave campaigners
are contributing to it.

The Leave supporters all seem to think that we should quickly leave the
EU and that all the deals, trade agreements, unravelling of EU laws etc
will be straightforward to sort out if the clever people put their minds
to it. The flaw in that argument is obvious. The clever people don't
agree. The clever people aren't enthusiastic Leave supporters. The Leave
supporters are, at best, people like Nigel Farage who have experience of
commodities trading in the City and who believe, through that narrow
view of the world, that leaving the EU has no pitfalls that should
seriously worry us.

Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of the hand.
We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to take our Brexit from
us and it's not fair.

[Norman Wells]

Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and knowledge, and
the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of the hand. We don't want to hear
their opinions. They want to take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too right wing for you,
is he?

[The Todal]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of the
hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to take our
Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too right
wing for you, is he?

Everyone assumes, probably rightly, that Blair makes speeches because he
wants to change Labour's leadership or to grab back power for himself.

Nobody seriously imagines that Heseltine or Major have any political
ambitions.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of the
hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to take our
Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too right
wing for you, is he?

Everyone assumes, probably rightly, that Blair makes speeches because he
wants to change Labour's leadership or to grab back power for himself.
Nobody seriously imagines that Heseltine or Major have any political
ambitions.

I think that's because we're given the impression that there are many in
the labour party who are clamouring for a change, whereas tories are
currently happy with their leadership. No idea how true that is,
though. I have no first-hand knowledge of any of this :-)

[Yellow]

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@icloud.com
says...

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of the
hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to take our
Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too right
wing for you, is he?

Everyone assumes, probably rightly, that Blair makes speeches because he
wants to change Labour's leadership or to grab back power for himself.
Nobody seriously imagines that Heseltine or Major have any political
ambitions.

You like telling other people what they think, don't you.

[The Todal]

Post by Yellow
says...

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of the
hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to take our
Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too right
wing for you, is he?

Everyone assumes, probably rightly, that Blair makes speeches because he
wants to change Labour's leadership or to grab back power for himself.
Nobody seriously imagines that Heseltine or Major have any political
ambitions.

You like telling other people what they think, don't you.

Not one of your most interesting responses. This is usenet. Everyone
discusses what the public thinks about everything. If you want a
peer-reviewed academic paper, you really have to look elsewhere.

[Norman Wells]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of the
hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to take our
Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too right
wing for you, is he?

Everyone assumes, probably rightly, that Blair makes speeches because he wants to
change Labour's leadership or to grab back power for himself.
Nobody seriously imagines that Heseltine or Major have any political ambitions.

Does that answer what I asked? If so, it's escaped me.

Why don't you just come out with it and say you support that nice Mr Blair?

[pamela]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience
and knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a
wave of the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They
want to take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list.
Too right wing for you, is he?

Everyone assumes, probably rightly, that Blair makes speeches
because he wants to change Labour's leadership or to grab back
power for himself.
Nobody seriously imagines that Heseltine or Major have any
political ambitions.

Does that answer what I asked? If so, it's escaped me.
Why don't you just come out with it and say you support that
nice Mr Blair?

Who do you support currently?

[The Todal]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of the
hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to take our
Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too right
wing for you, is he?

Everyone assumes, probably rightly, that Blair makes speeches because
he wants to change Labour's leadership or to grab back power for himself.
Nobody seriously imagines that Heseltine or Major have any political ambitions.

Does that answer what I asked? If so, it's escaped me.

Most things do, Norman. Life, politics, medicine, law.

Post by Norman Wells
Why don't you just come out with it and say you support that nice Mr Blair?

I would like him to have his throat ritually slit by ISIS terrorists
while he kneels and begs for mercy. If that's support, then I support him.

[pamela]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience
and knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave
of the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to
take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too
right wing for you, is he?

One of Tony Blair's biggest failings is that he made Labour
electable.

The misery-guts of Labour's hard left had for generations pursued a
life of near continuous moaning. When Blair thrust Labour into power
they became restless because now they had to deal with real world
issues and make real world compromises.

These starry-eyed head left idealist moaners were so programmed to
moan that they couldn't make a realpolitik compromise not even to
save their party.

Blair made some tough decisions and some he got right and some he got
wrong. That's life. That's politics.

I never voted for Blair nor for any of his opponents but it's clear
he was and is a true statesman. The hard left rage at these notions
and, as an alternative, offer the never-to be-elected Corbyn who
thinks running a country is an academic exercise.

[MM]

Post by pamela

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience
and knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave
of the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to
take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too
right wing for you, is he?

One of Tony Blair's biggest failings is that he made Labour
electable.
The misery-guts of Labour's hard left had for generations pursued a
life of near continuous moaning. When Blair thrust Labour into power
they became restless because now they had to deal with real world
issues and make real world compromises.
These starry-eyed head left idealist moaners were so programmed to
moan that they couldn't make a realpolitik compromise not even to
save their party.
Blair made some tough decisions and some he got right and some he got
wrong. That's life. That's politics.
I never voted for Blair nor for any of his opponents but it's clear
he was and is a true statesman. The hard left rage at these notions
and, as an alternative, offer the never-to be-elected Corbyn who
thinks running a country is an academic exercise.

I voted Labour (not Blair specifically) in 1997, but soon became
disillusioned and thereafter have voted Lib Dem ever since. During and
after the Coalition I lost faith in the Lib Dems, but now that they
are obviously in the ascendancy again under Farron, I shall support
them in all future elections. It would all be so much easier and
fairer if we had PR.

MM

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by MM

Post by pamela

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience
and knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave
of the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to
take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too
right wing for you, is he?

One of Tony Blair's biggest failings is that he made Labour
electable.
The misery-guts of Labour's hard left had for generations pursued a
life of near continuous moaning. When Blair thrust Labour into power
they became restless because now they had to deal with real world
issues and make real world compromises.
These starry-eyed head left idealist moaners were so programmed to
moan that they couldn't make a realpolitik compromise not even to
save their party.
Blair made some tough decisions and some he got right and some he got
wrong. That's life. That's politics.
I never voted for Blair nor for any of his opponents but it's clear
he was and is a true statesman. The hard left rage at these notions
and, as an alternative, offer the never-to be-elected Corbyn who
thinks running a country is an academic exercise.

I voted Labour (not Blair specifically) in 1997, but soon became
disillusioned and thereafter have voted Lib Dem ever since. During and
after the Coalition I lost faith in the Lib Dems, but now that they
are obviously in the ascendancy again under Farron, I shall support
them in all future elections. It would all be so much easier and
fairer if we had PR.
MM

Presumably someone has devised a better system of PR than the Germans
had in the 30's? :-) Is there are generally accepted definition of a
working system of PR? That's a genuine question, BTW - I'm only asking
because I don't know enough about it.

[MM]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by MM

Post by pamela

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience
and knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave
of the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to
take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too
right wing for you, is he?

One of Tony Blair's biggest failings is that he made Labour
electable.
The misery-guts of Labour's hard left had for generations pursued a
life of near continuous moaning. When Blair thrust Labour into power
they became restless because now they had to deal with real world
issues and make real world compromises.
These starry-eyed head left idealist moaners were so programmed to
moan that they couldn't make a realpolitik compromise not even to
save their party.
Blair made some tough decisions and some he got right and some he got
wrong. That's life. That's politics.
I never voted for Blair nor for any of his opponents but it's clear
he was and is a true statesman. The hard left rage at these notions
and, as an alternative, offer the never-to be-elected Corbyn who
thinks running a country is an academic exercise.

I voted Labour (not Blair specifically) in 1997, but soon became
disillusioned and thereafter have voted Lib Dem ever since. During and
after the Coalition I lost faith in the Lib Dems, but now that they
are obviously in the ascendancy again under Farron, I shall support
them in all future elections. It would all be so much easier and
fairer if we had PR.
MM

Presumably someone has devised a better system of PR than the Germans
had in the 30's? :-) Is there are generally accepted definition of a
working system of PR? That's a genuine question, BTW - I'm only asking
because I don't know enough about it.

Wikipedia will tell you all.

PR is used for the elections of MEPs to the European Parliament, for
the Scottish Assembly, the Welsh Assembly and the Northern Ireland
Assembly. I believe the Additional Member system used in London is
also a form of PR.

In addition, PR is used all over the world, in many countries.

MM

[pamela]

Post by MM

Post by pamela

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience
and knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a
wave of the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They
want to take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list.
Too right wing for you, is he?

One of Tony Blair's biggest failings is that he made Labour
electable.
The misery-guts of Labour's hard left had for generations
pursued a life of near continuous moaning. When Blair thrust
Labour into power they became restless because now they had to
deal with real world issues and make real world compromises.
These starry-eyed head left idealist moaners were so programmed
to moan that they couldn't make a realpolitik compromise not
even to save their party.
Blair made some tough decisions and some he got right and some
he got wrong. That's life. That's politics.
I never voted for Blair nor for any of his opponents but it's
clear he was and is a true statesman. The hard left rage at
these notions and, as an alternative, offer the never-to
be-elected Corbyn who thinks running a country is an academic
exercise.

I voted Labour (not Blair specifically) in 1997, but soon became
disillusioned and thereafter have voted Lib Dem ever since.
During and after the Coalition I lost faith in the Lib Dems, but
now that they are obviously in the ascendancy again under
Farron, I shall support them in all future elections. It would
all be so much easier and fairer if we had PR.
MM

I used vote in every election but nowadays I don't vote at all.

One thing about not voting is you don't later get defensive if
your candidate acts badly or is criticised for something. There
isn't that instinctive attachment.

That means I don't feel I am betraying myself if I start to like
one party's policies or another one's which I would never have
voted for.

I wouldn't have voted for Blair but I am not so surly as to put
down his considerable achievements. I watch with wonder at the
vitriol and bile some people pour on him; I don't feel sorry for
him and he doesn't much care but I am left wondering what on earth
is going though the heads of his attackers. They seem to live in
a world of constant anger and hatred. It wouldn't be surprised to
learn a larger than average proportion of these people are
receiving psychiatric treament for either problems of emotional
control or for problems with a grip on reality.

We saw looks of shock and total disappointment on these people's
faces, for example, when Chilcot published his report. They
seemed to actually genuinely think a detailed and balanced
investigation would now officially brand Blair a "war criminal" or
some other nonsense. What sort of logic is going on inside the
heads of Blair's detractors? I wouldn't be surprised if they are
mostly Corbyn supporters now which tells no end.

[MM]

Post by pamela
I used vote in every election but nowadays I don't vote at all.

I could never do that. I have voted in every election, apart from when
I was living abroad in the 1970s.

MM

[The Todal]

Post by pamela

Post by MM

Post by pamela

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience
and knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a
wave of the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They
want to take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list.
Too right wing for you, is he?

One of Tony Blair's biggest failings is that he made Labour
electable.
The misery-guts of Labour's hard left had for generations
pursued a life of near continuous moaning. When Blair thrust
Labour into power they became restless because now they had to
deal with real world issues and make real world compromises.
These starry-eyed head left idealist moaners were so programmed
to moan that they couldn't make a realpolitik compromise not
even to save their party.
Blair made some tough decisions and some he got right and some
he got wrong. That's life. That's politics.
I never voted for Blair nor for any of his opponents but it's
clear he was and is a true statesman. The hard left rage at
these notions and, as an alternative, offer the never-to
be-elected Corbyn who thinks running a country is an academic
exercise.

I voted Labour (not Blair specifically) in 1997, but soon became
disillusioned and thereafter have voted Lib Dem ever since.
During and after the Coalition I lost faith in the Lib Dems, but
now that they are obviously in the ascendancy again under
Farron, I shall support them in all future elections. It would
all be so much easier and fairer if we had PR.
MM

I used vote in every election but nowadays I don't vote at all.
One thing about not voting is you don't later get defensive if
your candidate acts badly or is criticised for something. There
isn't that instinctive attachment.
That means I don't feel I am betraying myself if I start to like
one party's policies or another one's which I would never have
voted for.
I wouldn't have voted for Blair but I am not so surly as to put
down his considerable achievements.

Which ones impressed you?

As a Labour voter I loathed him from the outset. Everything he did was
to gain power and influence for himself and to do little or nothing to
remedy the injustices suffered by the working classes who built the
Labour Party. The grinning idiot fooled more people than Gove or Johnson
or Farage.

Post by pamela
I watch with wonder at the
vitriol and bile some people pour on him;

I've got plenty if you ever need to see more.

Post by pamela
I don't feel sorry for
him and he doesn't much care but I am left wondering what on earth
is going though the heads of his attackers. They seem to live in
a world of constant anger and hatred. It wouldn't be surprised to
learn a larger than average proportion of these people are
receiving psychiatric treament for either problems of emotional
control or for problems with a grip on reality.

I wouldn't be surprised by much, and that's a fact. But it's true that
thousands of people do suffer from PTSD as a direct result of Blair's
military adventures.

Post by pamela
We saw looks of shock and total disappointment on these people's
faces, for example, when Chilcot published his report. They
seemed to actually genuinely think a detailed and balanced
investigation would now officially brand Blair a "war criminal" or
some other nonsense.

And what Chilcot actually told us was that the decisions made by Blair
were wrong at the time and were not properly presented to cabinet, and
have caused huge damage to our nation.



What sort of logic is going on inside the

Post by pamela
heads of Blair's detractors? I wouldn't be surprised if they are
mostly Corbyn supporters now which tells no end.

I think most reputable political pundits are Blair detractors, actually.

[tim...]

Post by MM

Post by pamela

Post by Norman Wells

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience
and knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave
of the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to
take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

Strange you don't mention that nice Mr Blair in your list. Too
right wing for you, is he?

One of Tony Blair's biggest failings is that he made Labour
electable.
The misery-guts of Labour's hard left had for generations pursued a
life of near continuous moaning. When Blair thrust Labour into power
they became restless because now they had to deal with real world
issues and make real world compromises.
These starry-eyed head left idealist moaners were so programmed to
moan that they couldn't make a realpolitik compromise not even to
save their party.
Blair made some tough decisions and some he got right and some he got
wrong. That's life. That's politics.
I never voted for Blair nor for any of his opponents but it's clear
he was and is a true statesman. The hard left rage at these notions
and, as an alternative, offer the never-to be-elected Corbyn who
thinks running a country is an academic exercise.

I voted Labour (not Blair specifically) in 1997, but soon became
disillusioned and thereafter have voted Lib Dem ever since. During and
after the Coalition I lost faith in the Lib Dems, but now that they
are obviously in the ascendancy again under Farron, I shall support
them in all future elections. It would all be so much easier and
fairer if we had PR.

then the rag tag and bob-tail party would now have major influence

would you really want that

[pamela]

Post by The Todal

Post by pamela

Post by Yellow
In article

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-
new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

She is married to "Multi-millionaire Alan Miller, the original
'Mr Hedge Fund'"
You have to admire her tenacity I suppose - it looks like she
has failed to stop Brexit the first time because unfortunately
for her, Parliament (so far) have decided to respect the
result of the referendum so now she is staging an attack up
the rear.
It was inevitable.
But was is interesting to me is that she claimed and claimed
and claimed that her reason for court action in the first
place was because of democracy, Parliament needed to decide -
but now in is in Parliament and they are deciding.
They are deciding, as we speak, what sort of vote, if any,
there should be at the end of the process.
Now however it seems she is not happy with Parliamentary
democracy after all.
But then we all knew that was not what it was about, and it
still isn't. ===
I think her ego is coming into play here ...

Gina Miller has failed to succumb to all the character
assassinations and mind reading she has been subjected to.
The end result is that she has made the role of Parliament
clearer in oppositng false mandates claimed by some Brexiteers.
Even Farage conceded to Gina Miller in person that the
referendum was advisory. If others had shown better grace
about it then her court case would not need to have been
brought.

Well said, Pamela.
Gina Miller has been subjected to hateful messages and threats
of death, rape and mutilation. And in this group a chap called
Steve says that Gina Miller should be dropped into the ocean,
and Ophelia approves of that.
These are supposedly examples of the sane, level headed voters
who carefully weighed up the pros and cons of leaving the EU and
made a rational decision.
I know Nigel Farage has also been subjected to hate mail, as he
mentioned in his Piers Morgan interview. But he has actively
sought the limelight. He enjoys being provocative and he claims
that he is indifferent to the hate mail and the jeering. Gina
Miller isn't indifferent to hate mail and neither are the
various female MPs who have been threatened with violence from
extreme left wing activists, racists and antisemites, some
claiming to be doing it in support of Corbyn. We have a
poisonous political atmosphere and a section of Leave
campaigners are contributing to it.
The Leave supporters all seem to think that we should quickly
leave the EU and that all the deals, trade agreements,
unravelling of EU laws etc will be straightforward to sort out
if the clever people put their minds to it. The flaw in that
argument is obvious. The clever people don't agree. The clever
people aren't enthusiastic Leave supporters. The Leave
supporters are, at best, people like Nigel Farage who have
experience of commodities trading in the City and who believe,
through that narrow view of the world, that leaving the EU has
no pitfalls that should seriously worry us.
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of
the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to
take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

The arrogant-aggressive-ignorant Brexit mindset is a relatively
new thing in the UK and when it showed up it puzzled many who
couldn't make sense of the sheer illogicality and mendacity
involved.

Last month Donald Trump took power and has allowed us here in the
UK to watch how such a mindset operates on the political stage.
It isn't a pretty sight. Personal attacks. False allegations.
Alternative facts. Different rules for different people.
Breaches of established rights. Executive orders despite them
lacking executive powers. Fights with the judiciary. And that's
just for starters.

This is the sort of mindset Gina Miller has had to contend with.
They don't like being told they're wrong - especially when they're
wrong.

[Handsome Jack]

Post by pamela

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of
the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to
take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

The arrogant-aggressive-ignorant Brexit mindset is a relatively
new thing in the UK and when it showed up it puzzled many who
couldn't make sense of the sheer illogicality and mendacity
involved.
Last month Donald Trump took power and has allowed us here in the
UK to watch how such a mindset operates on the political stage.
It isn't a pretty sight. Personal attacks. False allegations.
Alternative facts. Different rules for different people.
Breaches of established rights. Executive orders despite them
lacking executive powers. Fights with the judiciary. And that's
just for starters.
This is the sort of mindset Gina Miller has had to contend with.
They don't like being told they're wrong - especially when they're
wrong.

In my life have I never read such drivel.

[Sid]

Post by pamela

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of
the hand. We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to
take our Brexit from us and it's not fair.

The arrogant-aggressive-ignorant Brexit mindset is a relatively
new thing in the UK and when it showed up it puzzled many who
couldn't make sense of the sheer illogicality and mendacity
involved.
Last month Donald Trump took power and has allowed us here in the
UK to watch how such a mindset operates on the political stage.
It isn't a pretty sight. Personal attacks. False allegations.
Alternative facts. Different rules for different people.
Breaches of established rights. Executive orders despite them
lacking executive powers. Fights with the judiciary. And that's
just for starters.
This is the sort of mindset Gina Miller has had to contend with.
They don't like being told they're wrong - especially when they're
wrong.

In my life have I never read such drivel.

[MM]

Post by pamela
The arrogant-aggressive-ignorant Brexit mindset is a relatively
new thing in the UK and when it showed up it puzzled many who
couldn't make sense of the sheer illogicality and mendacity
involved.
Last month Donald Trump took power and has allowed us here in the
UK to watch how such a mindset operates on the political stage.
It isn't a pretty sight. Personal attacks. False allegations.
Alternative facts. Different rules for different people.
Breaches of established rights. Executive orders despite them
lacking executive powers. Fights with the judiciary. And that's
just for starters.
This is the sort of mindset Gina Miller has had to contend with.
They don't like being told they're wrong - especially when they're
wrong.

This is what happens when complacency assumes too much for too long.

It has puzzled most remainers, this "arrogant-aggressive-ignorant
Brexit mindset" as you so nicely put it. It's puzzling, because an
educated people usually bases decisions on logic, as I do when
choosing where to obtain medical treatment, for example. This would
also hold true in Britain, and probably does in Scotland, which
overwhelmingly voted to remain. But no one realised just how many
ignorant, and therefore illogical, people there are in society,
especially *English* society. As soon as a Brexiter starts to speak,
whether on porgrammes like Question Time or in vox pops on the high
street, you recognise the symptoms. Usually it's belligerence that
makes an appearance quite quickly, for Brexiters are all naturally
very angry people. If they couldn't get riled about Europe and
"furriners comin' here, stealin' our jobs", they'd find some other
scapegoat instead.

Normally, even 17 million such people would not be a problem, and
obviously they have always been there, moaning to themselves and to
others "dahn the pub", but the difference this time is that they have
been *organised*. The right-wing media, the rightward tendency of the
Tory party, the far-right propaganda from the likes of UKIP have all
provided a sense of conformity for these folks.

Unfortunately, we are stuck with them and the only choice I see now is
to give them their head and watch them take the country over the
cliff. Here's a picture from Germany's Karneval season, which
illustrates how Germans perceive Brexit:
http://tinyurl.com/brexitbangformay

MM

[pamela]

Post by MM

Post by pamela
The arrogant-aggressive-ignorant Brexit mindset is a relatively
new thing in the UK and when it showed up it puzzled many who
couldn't make sense of the sheer illogicality and mendacity
involved.
Last month Donald Trump took power and has allowed us here in
the UK to watch how such a mindset operates on the political
stage. It isn't a pretty sight. Personal attacks. False
allegations. Alternative facts. Different rules for different
people. Breaches of established rights. Executive orders
despite them lacking executive powers. Fights with the
judiciary. And that's just for starters.
This is the sort of mindset Gina Miller has had to contend with.
They don't like being told they're wrong - especially when
they're wrong.

This is what happens when complacency assumes too much for too
long.
It has puzzled most remainers, this
"arrogant-aggressive-ignorant Brexit mindset" as you so nicely
put it. It's puzzling, because an educated people usually bases
decisions on logic, as I do when choosing where to obtain
medical treatment, for example. This would also hold true in
Britain, and probably does in Scotland, which overwhelmingly
voted to remain. But no one realised just how many ignorant, and
therefore illogical, people there are in society, especially
*English* society. As soon as a Brexiter starts to speak,
whether on porgrammes like Question Time or in vox pops on the
high street, you recognise the symptoms. Usually it's
belligerence that makes an appearance quite quickly, for
Brexiters are all naturally very angry people. If they couldn't
get riled about Europe and "furriners comin' here, stealin' our
jobs", they'd find some other scapegoat instead.
Normally, even 17 million such people would not be a problem,
and obviously they have always been there, moaning to themselves
and to others "dahn the pub", but the difference this time is
that they have been *organised*. The right-wing media, the
rightward tendency of the Tory party, the far-right propaganda
from the likes of UKIP have all provided a sense of conformity
for these folks.
Unfortunately, we are stuck with them and the only choice I see
now is to give them their head and watch them take the country
over the cliff. Here's a picture from Germany's Karneval season,
http://tinyurl.com/brexitbangformay

In the old pre-Brexit days, populist extremism and
misunderstanding were tempered by their elected repesentatives who
acted in a far more considered way. The lunatic tendancies got
washed out.

The referendum (and Trump) has shown how demagogues can use any
number of falsehoods to stir up their voters and, when elected,
deliver on none of them. These people are not necessarily
ignorant or incompetent but they are certainly deliberately
deceitful.

The supporters have a new pasttime of making big claims without
knowledge and, when caught lying, blustering their way out. This
is different to the old style discussions of making a genuine
mistake and then accepting a correction. It doesn't take long for
this new behaviour to trun into intentional lying from the outset.
This seems to be where we are now.

I notice your picture of Theresa May has many similarities with
the way Thatcher used to be depicted.

[harry]

Post by MM

Post by pamela
The arrogant-aggressive-ignorant Brexit mindset is a relatively
new thing in the UK and when it showed up it puzzled many who
couldn't make sense of the sheer illogicality and mendacity
involved.
Last month Donald Trump took power and has allowed us here in the
UK to watch how such a mindset operates on the political stage.
It isn't a pretty sight. Personal attacks. False allegations.
Alternative facts. Different rules for different people.
Breaches of established rights. Executive orders despite them
lacking executive powers. Fights with the judiciary. And that's
just for starters.
This is the sort of mindset Gina Miller has had to contend with.
They don't like being told they're wrong - especially when they're
wrong.

This is what happens when complacency assumes too much for too long.
It has puzzled most remainers, this "arrogant-aggressive-ignorant
Brexit mindset" as you so nicely put it. It's puzzling, because an
educated people usually bases decisions on logic, as I do when
choosing where to obtain medical treatment, for example. This would
also hold true in Britain, and probably does in Scotland, which
overwhelmingly voted to remain. But no one realised just how many
ignorant, and therefore illogical, people there are in society,
especially *English* society. As soon as a Brexiter starts to speak,
whether on porgrammes like Question Time or in vox pops on the high
street, you recognise the symptoms. Usually it's belligerence that
makes an appearance quite quickly, for Brexiters are all naturally
very angry people. If they couldn't get riled about Europe and
"furriners comin' here, stealin' our jobs", they'd find some other
scapegoat instead.
Normally, even 17 million such people would not be a problem, and
obviously they have always been there, moaning to themselves and to
others "dahn the pub", but the difference this time is that they have
been *organised*. The right-wing media, the rightward tendency of the
Tory party, the far-right propaganda from the likes of UKIP have all
provided a sense of conformity for these folks.
Unfortunately, we are stuck with them and the only choice I see now is
to give them their head and watch them take the country over the
cliff. Here's a picture from Germany's Karneval season, which
http://tinyurl.com/brexitbangformay
MM

This is the true picture of Germany.
Or the new caliphate

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-mosques-insig-idUSKCN12S0HE

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3487/germany-fear-east-west

[MM]

Post by harry
This is the true picture of Germany.

No, it isn't.

MM

[Incubus]

Post by The Todal

Post by pamela

Post by Yellow
In article

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-
new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

She is married to "Multi-millionaire Alan Miller, the original
'Mr Hedge Fund'"
You have to admire her tenacity I suppose - it looks like she
has failed to stop Brexit the first time because unfortunately
for her, Parliament (so far) have decided to respect the result
of the referendum so now she is staging an attack up the rear.
It was inevitable.
But was is interesting to me is that she claimed and claimed and
claimed that her reason for court action in the first place was
because of democracy, Parliament needed to decide - but now in
is in Parliament and they are deciding.
They are deciding, as we speak, what sort of vote, if any, there
should be at the end of the process.
Now however it seems she is not happy with Parliamentary
democracy after all.
But then we all knew that was not what it was about, and it
still isn't. ===
I think her ego is coming into play here ...

Gina Miller has failed to succumb to all the character
assassinations and mind reading she has been subjected to.
The end result is that she has made the role of Parliament clearer
in oppositng false mandates claimed by some Brexiteers.
Even Farage conceded to Gina Miller in person that the referendum
was advisory. If others had shown better grace about it then her
court case would not need to have been brought.

Well said, Pamela.

Pamela reminds me a lot of Judith for some reason.

Post by The Todal
Gina Miller has been subjected to hateful messages and threats of death,
rape and mutilation. And in this group a chap called Steve says that
Gina Miller should be dropped into the ocean, and Ophelia approves of that.

When one person seeks to frustrate the will of the people, I imagine a number of people will become angry. I don't condone such threats but I do feel she has no business butting into our affairs.

Post by The Todal
I know Nigel Farage has also been subjected to hate mail, as he
mentioned in his Piers Morgan interview. But he has actively sought the
limelight. He enjoys being provocative and he claims that he is
indifferent to the hate mail and the jeering.

So you excuse such behaviour when it is directed against Farage. Noted.

Post by The Todal
Gina Miller isn't
indifferent to hate mail and neither are the various female MPs who have
been threatened with violence from extreme left wing activists, racists
and antisemites, some claiming to be doing it in support of Corbyn.

Todal the Feminist, making it all about women.

Post by The Todal
We
have a poisonous political atmosphere and a section of Leave campaigners
are contributing to it.

A rather large section of Remain campaigners and so-called AntiFa have contributed likewise but feel free to ignore that.

Post by The Todal
The Leave supporters all seem to think that we should quickly leave the
EU and that all the deals, trade agreements, unravelling of EU laws etc
will be straightforward to sort out if the clever people put their minds
to it. The flaw in that argument is obvious. The clever people don't
agree. The clever people aren't enthusiastic Leave supporters. The Leave
supporters are, at best, people like Nigel Farage who have experience of
commodities trading in the City and who believe, through that narrow
view of the world, that leaving the EU has no pitfalls that should
seriously worry us.

In actual fact, the Leave supporters want to pretend that EU membership is an enormous Gordian knot that can never be unravelled.

Post by The Todal
Michael Heseltine and John Major have a wealth of experience and
knowledge, and the Leave campaigners dismiss it with a wave of the hand.
We don't want to hear their opinions. They want to take our Brexit from
us and it's not fair.

They would be better off putting that 'wealth of experience and knowledge' towards helping us to leave the EU rather than trying to frustrate the will of the people. The ship has already sailed: we are leaving the EU and no amount of 'wealth of experience and knowledge' will change that.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

Gina Miller is part of George Osbournes inner circle, this is sabotage

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by harry
https://alt-politics.com/2017/02/24/gina-miller-launches-new-campaign-to-derail-brexit/
Where does she get the money from?

It is not a question of legal, it is a question of the banks running our society