Post by Râ¼dPost by RobertPost by Râ¼dPost by RobertPost by Râ¼dPost by RobertPost by dukePost by RobertPost by dukePost by RobertPost by dukeOn Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:15:34 +1100, Michael Christ
Post by Michael Christ1) They strive to be what the bible says they should be.
Its indisputable. That alone should send up alarm bells.
2) They then declare that they are the Church, saved, and keep trying to
establish themselves by repeating bible verses again and again and again.
A true Christian fully understands that Jesus will advise us of our salvation,
or not, at the moment of our judgment before him when we die.
And then, when you find out that you aren't? It shows you weren't all
along. There is something so desperately wrong with your scenario and
that you accept that it makes others think that you are being played
for a fool. Why would God leave you hanging out on a limb to dry?
To do the very thing he calls us to do: repent of our sins, pick up our own
cross, and follow Jesus.
You think it's free. Bad news.
the dukester, American-American
I know it is free. I did nothing to earn it. It was all a gift, or
unmerited favor. It didn't cost me a goat, lamb, dove, bull, nothing,
he offered to give me salvation and the righteousness of God for all
my sin. What a deal!
Then why did Jesus tell us that we are to repent of our sins, pick up our own
cross and follow him?
Because if you do not change your ways and follow him you are not a
believer. He came to those who change their evil ways.
What is your cross?
Post by dukeWhy did Jesus tell us to feed the hungry, clothe the
naked, give drink to the thirst , that our faith is dead faith without deeds of
love, He didn't and I have quoted that to you many times.
that we are to love and obey God and love our neighbor as we love
ourselves, that if we CONTINUE TO SIN AFTER WE LEARN THE TRUTH, THE ONLY THING
LEFT FOR US ARE THE FIRES OF HELL.
He didn't command us to do that.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with
all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Rod, Jesus never commanded us to do those things. It was not a
commandment that he gave us, but he was referring to a question some
Jews asked him about what was the greatest of the commandments of
Moses. Jesus not only told him, but told him the reason why, verse 40.
Jesus was speaking to the Jews about Judaism at the time.
I know this, Robert, but..he who has seen the son has seen the Father.
that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Joh_12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent
me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Well Rod, I had to do some thinking on what you posted here, and if I
read you right you are saying in effect that all the commandments of
God as written, stand.
Robert, I realize in Pauls confrontation with Peter
that Paul saw it differently; as a burden that could
not be met, but tell me Robert; do you transgress the
commandments? Do you love God before all else? Do you
love your neighbor as much as yourself, enough to help
when he needs help?
Rod, I was treading lightly regarding what you brought up, I
understand what has gone on in the recent past and your feelings about
it. I wanted to say something about this when you mentioned it to
Matt, because you are seeing things improperly and I did not want to
just stir up the pot. Yet I was hoping to be able to clarify it with
you, and you brought it up here, so I questioned it, timidly.
Post by Râ¼dIt's the law of love, Robert. Reason dictates that if
you love God you also love your neighbor and value his
life higher than your own; in other words you put others
ahead of yourself. That is the way love operates.
I help my neighbor, as you asked above, but not from the standpoint of
any law, other than the law of Faith. I do it because it is a natural
part of by being, a desire to do so. I have even helped some who never
asked, and most people would have never known they were in need, and
the only reason I knew it was because the Lord told me, or my wife
about it. That is also what Paul teaches as the law written on our
hearts of flesh, not the mind, that in effect establishes the Mosaic
Law as being laws given by God.
Jesus, explained to the Jews of his day, that if a person were to just
act solely out of love towards all people and God, that by doing so
they would fulfill all the law, naturally. By doing so they would
have, as a people, not felt as if they were under a heavy burden.
Sort of like when your a kid and you have to do chores around the
house, and it was all a burden, but as an adult you took care of your
parents doing the same thing but out of Love, so it was no big deal.
But Jesus did not command these things to us, and God did not tell him
to command these things to us. Instead as Born Again believers he
wrote the desire to do these things on our hearts. We are not stuck
with studying the Law, with its blessings and Curses.
But Jesus did give us a New Commandment. A different commandment.
Post by Râ¼dThe logic of love guarantees that you will not offend
or do harm to others, and by it's very nature has kept
the commandments without effort. So why is it seen as a
burden? Because there are people that will not surrender
completely to God. Yes, Christ paid the price for everyone
up to the point of them transgressing deliberately to rub
Christs name in the mud.
Jesus offended many, he also overturned the tables of the Money
Changers in the temple, he was also ostracized for not washing his
hands when he was invited to a house to eat and then he chewed out a
lawyer when he piped up. In today's PC world many are offended easily
or perceive themselves or someone else offended by the PC moment of
the day.
Jesus has paid for the sins of every man, even those who like Paul
drug his name through the mud. He never stops forgiving. Some men pull
themselves out of his grace via continual sin, they renounce him.
Jesus said he would never leave us nor forsake us. However, that does
not stop men from departing him.
Post by Râ¼dNo Robert, the Gentiles were not given the law. As I recall
we are to abstain from idol worship and not to eat meat
sacrificed to idols, and no other burdens were placed upon us
at that time. However, after conversion most of Pauls followers
were also obedient to the laws of love, meaning they did not
deliberately transgress the commandments.
The New commandment is and was very specific. You spoke without regard
to it in both of your posts. There is a huge difference between the
letter of the Law and following it with out minds, that the laws of
God written upon the hearts of those that believe in Jesus Christ.
God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son are not the same person. Jesus
very clearly spoke regarding God the Father as greater than he, He
also very clearly Called God the Father, My God and your God. They are
of one mind, one purpose. The Law of Moses was fulfilled by Jesus.
Jesus was abandoned by God for a time, when he was on the Cross.
To be "obedient to any law" you have to be conscious of it at all
times, but when it is second nature to your spirit, and you walk in
the spirit it is effortless and you do not deliberately transgress.
Post by Râ¼dI posted only to let you know that we are not in agreement
on this. No reply is needed as it is your choice to make.
I posted this for the same reason, and hope you find out what the new
commandment is, and why it was given.
Post by Râ¼dIf that be the case then that would mean all
Post by Robertthe laws as well as the Sabbaths and the High Sabbaths, etc.
So I am asking if I am reading you right before I venture on.
Post by Râ¼dPost by RobertJesus did give us a New Commandment and he also gave us the reason for
that commandment. No one here seems to pay much attention to it, not
the reason for it.
Post by Râ¼dHeb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the
knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery
indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
This is not a commandment. But it was an addon thought of Earls who
said we are to "that we are to love and obey God and love our neighbor
as we love ourselves" was a commandment of Jesus. It was not. He said
it was a right thing to do and why.
Post by Râ¼dHeb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought
worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the
blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and
hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Both those verses are tied together as one thought. No one then or now
is killed even if there are five or ten witnesses that someone broke
Moses' law, that was all over with when Christ died and resurrected.
Now, instead of the law being written and published to all Christians
to follow, God writes those laws on our hearts of flesh for them that
are born again, and they then become the desire of our heart to do,
instinctively without even thinking about it, and that mainly because
God gives us Love, to operate by. And Love fulfills all the law as he
stated to the Jews.
This was also all foretold in Jeremiah 33
Post by Râ¼dPost by RobertPost by dukeSomething doesn't match up.
You words do not match up with Jesus., if you reply, post the
pertinent scripture if you can.
Post by dukeI'm going with Jesus myself, for sure not with robert.
the dukester, American-American