Mark Lane and the KGB

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a ?trusted
relationship? with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane?s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock?s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission?s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau?s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women ?hand printed instructions ? in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.?
The KGB?s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union?s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name ?Kram.? ?The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.?
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

So not only was he a dishonest person but was a pervert to boot. I'm not
surprised.

Anthony Marsh

2018-02-07 03:29:37 UTC

So not only was he a dishonest person but was a pervert to boot. I'm not
surprised.

So you'll fall for any disinformation as long as it comes from the CIA.

Bill Clarke

2018-02-08 01:30:50 UTC

So not only was he a dishonest person but was a pervert to boot. I'm not
surprised.

So you'll fall for any disinformation as long as it comes from the CIA.

Actually Marsh I got my information that Lane was dishonest from several
sources, none being the CIA. I'll include a few here for you. I don't
give a damn if he was a pervert or not but I must say that I don't trust
people prone to make false statements.

Mark Lane -- Smearing America's Soldiers - Mcadams.posc.mu.edu?
mcadams.posc.mu.edu/smearing.htm

His book Conversations With Americans portrayed American soldiers as
brutal war criminals with the same selective use of evidence and the same
reliance on unreliable witnesses that mark his JFK conspiracy books.
Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Neil Sheehan reported on the Vietnam War
for the New York Times.

Conversation with Neil Sheehan, cover page
globetrotter.berkeley.edu/conversations/Sheehan/

Harry Kreisler interviews Neil Sheehan on covering the Vietnam War;
November 1988. ... Sheehan. Remembering the Vietnam War; Conversation with
Neil Sheehan, 11/14/88 by ... Mr. Sheehan has just written a new book,
published by Random House, called A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and
America in Vietnam.

Anthony Marsh

2018-02-10 01:28:29 UTC

So not only was he a dishonest person but was a pervert to boot. I'm not
surprised.

So you'll fall for any disinformation as long as it comes from the CIA.

As I said - CIA. That's all you have.

Post by Bill Clarke
His book Conversations With Americans portrayed American soldiers as
brutal war criminals with the same selective use of evidence and the same
reliance on unreliable witnesses that mark his JFK conspiracy books.
Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Neil Sheehan reported on the Vietnam War
for the New York Times.
Conversation with Neil Sheehan, cover page
globetrotter.berkeley.edu/conversations/Sheehan/
Harry Kreisler interviews Neil Sheehan on covering the Vietnam War;
November 1988. ... Sheehan. Remembering the Vietnam War; Conversation with
Neil Sheehan, 11/14/88 by ... Mr. Sheehan has just written a new book,
published by Random House, called A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and
America in Vietnam.

BFD. You've gone off-topic again. You always do that when you've lost an
argument. I have that book of course. Stay on topic. Mark Lane is not in
the index.

Bill Clarke

2018-02-10 20:56:43 UTC

So not only was he a dishonest person but was a pervert to boot. I'm not
surprised.

So you'll fall for any disinformation as long as it comes from the CIA.

As I said - CIA. That's all you have.

Yeah, guess I forgot John works for the CIA. Rolling on the floor again
Marsh.

BFD. You've gone off-topic again. You always do that when you've lost an
argument.

Good god Marsh. You should talk! I've just watched you post everything
but the order for your false statement that "JFK ordered 1,000 men per
month home from Vietnam" and you have the nerve to post this crap?

I have that book of course. Stay on topic. Mark Lane is not in

Post by Anthony Marsh
the index.

I didn't say he was. But the author of that book is the one that exposed
Lane's book as a bunch of lies. Try to keep up.

BOZ

2018-02-11 01:29:14 UTC

So not only was he a dishonest person but was a pervert to boot. I'm not
surprised.

So you'll fall for any disinformation as long as it comes from the CIA.

Stop spreading disinformation.

g***@gmail.com

2018-02-07 03:34:18 UTC

So not only was he a dishonest person but was a pervert to boot. I'm not
surprised.

Not unlike J. Edgar.

Squinty

BOZ

2018-02-06 00:56:40 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a “trusted
relationship” with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane’s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock’s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission’s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau’s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women “hand printed instructions … in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.”
The KGB’s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union’s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name “Kram.” “The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.”
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

It sounds like Mark Lane was part of the Kinsey Report.

mainframetech

2018-02-06 01:21:45 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a “trusted
relationship” with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane’s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock’s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission’s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau’s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women “hand printed instructions … in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.”
The KGB’s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union’s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name “Kram.” “The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.”
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

"Mark Lane soon became aware of a smear campaign against him by the FBI
and the CIA. As Bernard Fensterwald, pointed out: "Mark Lane, the long
time critic of the Warren Report has often spoken of FBI harassment and
surveillance directed against him. While many observers were at first
skeptical about Lane's characteristically vocal allegations against the
FBI, the list of classified Warren Commission documents that was later
released substantiated Lane's charges, as it contained several FBI files
about him. Lane had earlier uncovered a February 24, 1964 Warren
Commission memorandum from staff counsel Harold Willens to General Counsel
J. Lee Rankin. The memorandum revealed that FBI agents had Lane's
movements and lectures under surveillance, and were forwarding their
reports to the Warren Commission.""

From: http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKlaneM.htm

Chris

John McAdams

2018-02-06 01:25:22 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a trusted
relationship with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lanes relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrocks name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commissions work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureaus longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women hand printed instructions in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.
The KGBs contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Unions UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name Kram. The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

"Mark Lane soon became aware of a smear campaign against him by the FBI
and the CIA. As Bernard Fensterwald, pointed out: "Mark Lane, the long
time critic of the Warren Report has often spoken of FBI harassment and
surveillance directed against him. While many observers were at first
skeptical about Lane's characteristically vocal allegations against the
FBI, the list of classified Warren Commission documents that was later
released substantiated Lane's charges, as it contained several FBI files
about him. Lane had earlier uncovered a February 24, 1964 Warren
Commission memorandum from staff counsel Harold Willens to General Counsel
J. Lee Rankin. The memorandum revealed that FBI agents had Lane's
movements and lectures under surveillance, and were forwarding their
reports to the Warren Commission.""
From: http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKlaneM.htm

So you object to the FBI surveilling Mark Lane, who had considerable
communist "connections," but was not known to have broken any law?

(Well . . . laws about certain sexual behavior, but that was no
business of the FBI. Just the Queens County DA.)

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Anthony Marsh

2018-02-07 03:27:04 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a ???trusted
relationship??? with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane???s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock???s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission???s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau???s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women ???hand printed instructions ??? in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.???
The KGB???s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union???s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name ???Kram.??? ???The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.???
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

"Mark Lane soon became aware of a smear campaign against him by the FBI
and the CIA. As Bernard Fensterwald, pointed out: "Mark Lane, the long
time critic of the Warren Report has often spoken of FBI harassment and
surveillance directed against him. While many observers were at first
skeptical about Lane's characteristically vocal allegations against the
FBI, the list of classified Warren Commission documents that was later
released substantiated Lane's charges, as it contained several FBI files
about him. Lane had earlier uncovered a February 24, 1964 Warren
Commission memorandum from staff counsel Harold Willens to General Counsel
J. Lee Rankin. The memorandum revealed that FBI agents had Lane's
movements and lectures under surveillance, and were forwarding their
reports to the Warren Commission.""
From: http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKlaneM.htm

So you object to the FBI surveilling Mark Lane, who had considerable
communist "connections," but was not known to have broken any law?

You don't have to wait until someone actually breaks the law to
investigate.

Post by John McAdams
(Well . . . laws about certain sexual behavior, but that was no
business of the FBI. Just the Queens County DA.)

CIA slander.

Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Ace Kefford

2018-02-06 02:45:23 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a “trusted
relationship” with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane’s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock’s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission’s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau’s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women “hand printed instructions … in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.”
The KGB’s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union’s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name “Kram.” “The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.”
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

There is no defense for how Lane presented his "evidence," but this is
really weak stuff. Not only based on one source but also with gratuitous
addition about his sexual kinks.

Truly what should be so surprising that a prominent leftist would be
speaking with someone affiliated with Russian intelligence (which Lane
might not have even known). Now if you tell me Lane was knowingly
providing classified information to a known KGB agent or source or that he
was taking marching orders from the Soviets like plenty of U.S. Communist
leaders were, then that's another matter.

In any case I can't imagine anyone other than the true believers who could
never be persuaded still stands behind Lane and his methods. Even when I
was a teenager I could see through his stuff.

John McAdams

2018-02-06 02:50:45 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a trusted
relationship with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lanes relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrocks name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commissions work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureaus longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women hand printed instructions in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.
The KGBs contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Unions UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name Kram. The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

There is no defense for how Lane presented his "evidence," but this is
really weak stuff. Not only based on one source but also with gratuitous
addition about his sexual kinks.

That actually has been known since the Garrison trial era.

Post by Ace Kefford
Truly what should be so surprising that a prominent leftist would be
speaking with someone affiliated with Russian intelligence (which Lane
might not have even known). Now if you tell me Lane was knowingly
providing classified information to a known KGB agent or source or that he
was taking marching orders from the Soviets like plenty of U.S. Communist
leaders were, then that's another matter.

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

Post by Ace Kefford
In any case I can't imagine anyone other than the true believers who could
never be persuaded still stands behind Lane and his methods. Even when I
was a teenager I could see through his stuff.

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.

Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Anthony Marsh

2018-02-07 02:28:35 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a ???trusted
relationship??? with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane???s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock???s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission???s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau???s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women ???hand printed instructions ??? in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.???
The KGB???s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union???s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name ???Kram.??? ???The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.???
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

There is no defense for how Lane presented his "evidence," but this is
really weak stuff. Not only based on one source but also with gratuitous
addition about his sexual kinks.

That actually has been known since the Garrison trial era.

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

It may take us a few months to figure out what you mean. Carter Page
sexual kinks? Carter Page passing secrets to the KGB? I will defend him on
that. He was too young when there still was a KGB to know that those were
secrets, He just though they were Find a Word puzzles. He did not yet know
about The Puzzle Palace, I heard someone accidentally using a SCI code
word, but he didn't know that it meant.

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.

OMG, and the ACLU represented the Nazi. What's wrong with these people
defending unpopular speech. I bet even YOU had a Jewish lawyer defending
your unpopular speech.

Post by John McAdams
Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.

Did you misspell his name? Did you mean Trump?
Gotta watch those typos.

Why didn't you bring up Mark Lane's running the NY campaign for JFK?
Can't you use that to prove that he was a dirty Communist? Lane, JFK,
both, whatever?

In 1959, Lane helped found the Reform Democrat movement within the New
York Democratic Party. He was elected with the support of Eleanor
Roosevelt and presidential candidate John F. Kennedy (JFK) to the New York
Legislature in 1960. During his own campaign, he also managed the New York
City area's campaign for JFK's 1960 presidential bid.[8] He was a member
of the New York State Assembly (New York County's 10th District,
encompassing East Harlem and Yorkville, where Lane resided) in 1961 and
1962.[9] In

Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Ace Kefford

2018-02-07 17:18:37 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a “trusted
relationship” with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane’s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock’s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission’s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau’s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women “hand printed instructions … in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.”
The KGB’s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union’s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name “Kram.” “The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.”
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

There is no defense for how Lane presented his "evidence," but this is
really weak stuff. Not only based on one source but also with gratuitous
addition about his sexual kinks.

That actually has been known since the Garrison trial era.

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.
Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

This has nothing to do with current investigations into Carter Page.
You've followed the typical approach of the current right wing of adopting
the old Soviet apologist dodge of saying if two things can be "equated"
with words or characterization then they are equal and the same. Makes no
sense.

This is an article about a long ago figure. I pointed out, as you had,
that it was weak stuff. Also, since this was a JFK assassination forum, I
added that it was hard to believe anyone still defended Lane. It also
involved gratuitous stuff about his sex life.

All of us on the the left/liberal end of things are well aware of the bias
that can be found in official investigative reports. Hoover's FBI was the
worst for it. You can read lots of books about it if you are interested.

P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

John McAdams

2018-02-07 17:28:08 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a trusted
relationship with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lanes relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrocks name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commissions work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureaus longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women hand printed instructions in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.
The KGBs contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Unions UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name Kram. The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

There is no defense for how Lane presented his "evidence," but this is
really weak stuff. Not only based on one source but also with gratuitous
addition about his sexual kinks.

That actually has been known since the Garrison trial era.

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.
Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.

So you are a liberal, and when you encounter an argument you don't
like you engage in red baiting.

Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.

You recognize the irony in this, right?

Post by Ace Kefford
This is an article about a long ago figure. I pointed out, as you had,
that it was weak stuff. Also, since this was a JFK assassination forum, I
added that it was hard to believe anyone still defended Lane. It also
involved gratuitous stuff about his sex life.
All of us on the the left/liberal end of things are well aware of the bias
that can be found in official investigative reports. Hoover's FBI was the
worst for it. You can read lots of books about it if you are interested.

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?

Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.

But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.

But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Anthony Marsh

2018-02-08 15:33:26 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a ???trusted
relationship??? with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane???s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock???s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission???s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau???s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women ???hand printed instructions ??? in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.???
The KGB???s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union???s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name ???Kram.??? ???The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.???
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

There is no defense for how Lane presented his "evidence," but this is
really weak stuff. Not only based on one source but also with gratuitous
addition about his sexual kinks.

That actually has been known since the Garrison trial era.

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.
Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.

So you are a liberal, and when you encounter an argument you don't
like you engage in red baiting.

Red means Communist. Communism is dead. Didn't you get the memo? Why don't
you bring up McCarthyism to show how hip you are and keeping up with the
times?

Post by John McAdams
Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.
You recognize the irony in this, right?

You're pretty good at irony. Did you invent it?

Post by John McAdams
http://youtu.be/bowhUWl6rxQ

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?

You make no sense. They are just doing their jobs. They didn't
manufacture anything. They just followed the leads. Something that ANY
legal system does anywhere.

Post by John McAdams
Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.

False. Show me Communist connectsions in the US.
One Soviet agent tried to contact him.

Post by John McAdams
But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.

Mark Lane or Carter Page?
What classified information did either of them have. Soviet agents use
sources with influential contacts. They don't always get classified
information, just access and insight into persons of interest.

Post by John McAdams
But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?

No, it was funny. Trump's way of getting revenge on Obama for when Obama
humiliated him at the Press Club dinner.

Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

mainframetech

2018-02-09 02:12:23 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a “trusted
relationship” with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane’s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock’s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission’s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau’s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women “hand printed instructions … in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.”
The KGB’s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union’s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name “Kram.” “The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.”
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

There is no defense for how Lane presented his "evidence," but this is
really weak stuff. Not only based on one source but also with gratuitous
addition about his sexual kinks.

That actually has been known since the Garrison trial era.

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.
Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.

So you are a liberal, and when you encounter an argument you don't
like you engage in red baiting.
Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.
You recognize the irony in this, right?
http://youtu.be/bowhUWl6rxQ

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?
Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.
But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.
But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?

Sadly, the Steele Dossier has had some of it proven out from other
sources, and as per Senator Feinstein, it has had NONE of it proven to be
incorrect. Considering the probable rape of the thirteen year old girl,
Trump will probably be found to have done that stuff too:

https://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/

Chris

Ace Kefford

2018-02-23 02:00:21 UTC

Post by John McAdams
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/10/jfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane/1018691001/
<quote on>
Mark Lane, the New York attorney who challenged the findings of the
commission that investigated the JFK assassination had a “trusted
relationship” with the Soviet KGB, according to a KGB informant for
the CIA.
Lane’s relationship with the KGB, which was revealed in new files
released from the investigation of the assassination of President John
F Kennedy, was disclosed by a little-known Soviet informant code named
Shamrock. That source, a KGB official who worked in the Soviet
delegation office at the United Nations, contacted the CIA on Jan. 16,
1967, and agreed to share information with both the CIA and FBI, an
April 4, 1967, FBI memo shows.
Shamrock’s name was made public for the first time among the more than
35,500 files connected to the Kennedy investigation that were released
late last year.
Lane, who died at age 89 in May 2016, first represented the mother of
Kennedy assassin Lee Harvey Oswald as the Warren Commission conducted
its investigation. In 1966, he published the best-selling Rush to
Judgment, which criticized the commission’s work as sloppy and
incomplete.
A Nov. 7, 1967, memorandum from FBI official W.A. Branigan to William
Sullivan, the bureau’s longtime intelligence chief, said the
information provided by Shamrock about Lane would be passed to the
White House if Sullivan approved. The Lane file included claims that
Lane, a one-time Democratic member of the New York Assembly, was once
investigated for sodomy by the Queens County, N.Y., district attorney
and had once given two women “hand printed instructions … in order
that they could perform upon his person perverted sexual acts of a
sadistic and masochistic nature.”
The KGB’s contact with Lane, the FBI memo said, was Boris Orehkov, a
former official at the Soviet Union’s UN delegation.
A Jan. 9, 1968, FBI report released as part of the JFK files said that
an FBI information identified only as "NY 5812-S" said the KGB had
given Lane the code name “Kram.” “The source stated that BORIS
OREKHOV, a KGB officer, assigned to the NY residency, had had two
meetings with LANE and had established a trusted relationship with
him.”
<end quote>
Of course, this seems to be based on a single source.
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

There is no defense for how Lane presented his "evidence," but this is
really weak stuff. Not only based on one source but also with gratuitous
addition about his sexual kinks.

That actually has been known since the Garrison trial era.

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.
Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.

So you are a liberal, and when you encounter an argument you don't
like you engage in red baiting.
Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.
You recognize the irony in this, right?
http://youtu.be/bowhUWl6rxQ

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?
Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.
But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.
But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

"So you are a liberal, and when you encounter an argument you don't like
you engage in red baiting."

That's not red-baiting, that is telling the truth. The Trumpist
Republicans are like the old Soviet Union in trying to make false
equivalencies.

"The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?"

The answer is, yes, of course, in what kind of strange world would you
think I (or any real liberal or leftist) wouldn't be? We are not like you
and your Trumpist Republicans who put party, actually even worse not just
party but one short-fingered man, over country. We believe in America and
democracy and the rule of law.

And I would remind you Professor that there is a difference between
systematic law enforcement abuses aimed at those having certain political
views and the incidental catching of some people as part of an overall
program not aimed at a particular domestic political party. But that's the
kind of real distinction that the "but what would" false equivalency
Trumpists and old-line Soviets like to gloss over.

On the other hand if you are, as increasingly appears to be the case, a
true committed Trumpist, then you probably believe with Alex Jones, der
President and the rest that there was some "secret society" FBI plot
against Trump. Egad! If you are headed down that road be careful because
you will end up in the same camp as what are essentially the
"alterationists" of the political world who believe in "crisis actors" and
"false flag" operations as part of the anti-gun fake school shooting
plots. Re-reading any good book debunking conspiracy theory and thinking,
even your own, and applying what you read to the Trump-centric world might
prove beneficial.

John McAdams

2018-02-23 02:23:12 UTC

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.
Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.

So you are a liberal, and when you encounter an argument you don't
like you engage in red baiting.
Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.
You recognize the irony in this, right?
http://youtu.be/bowhUWl6rxQ

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?
Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.
But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.
But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?

It's perfectly accurate to say that for liberals Russia has become the
"evil empire," that is a huge threat.

Did you watch the video clip above? Noticed how Obama ridiculed
Romney?

Was Romney right?

Post by Ace Kefford
"The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?"
The answer is, yes, of course, in what kind of strange world would you
think I (or any real liberal or leftist) wouldn't be? We are not like you
and your Trumpist Republicans who put party, actually even worse not just
party but one short-fingered man, over country. We believe in America and
democracy and the rule of law.

That seems to depend on who is president, and who is stretching the
law.

Post by Ace Kefford
And I would remind you Professor that there is a difference between
systematic law enforcement abuses aimed at those having certain political
views and the incidental catching of some people as part of an overall
program not aimed at a particular domestic political party.

Was the Susan Rice unmasking of Trump associates aimed at a particular
political party?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/23/obama-administration-records-on-trump-team-unmasking-withheld-from-judicial-watch.html

Was the use of the Steele dossier to justify spying on Carter Page
"aimed at a particular party?"

Remember, it was attempted to be leaked to several mainstream media
outlets, and they rejected it as unreliable.

But it was fine for the FBI.

Post by Ace Kefford
But that's the
kind of real distinction that the "but what would" false equivalency
Trumpists and old-line Soviets like to gloss over.

You are begging the question when you call it "false equivalency."

It *ought* to disturb any civil libertarian.

There was, apparently, a small group that actually talked to each
other and were virulently anti-Trump. But it was a lot broader than
that.

As for the Mueller probe:

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/21/exclusive-zero-registered-republicans-mueller-lawyer/

Post by Ace Kefford
Egad! If you are headed down that road be careful because
you will end up in the same camp as what are essentially the
"alterationists" of the political world who believe in "crisis actors" and
"false flag" operations as part of the anti-gun fake school shooting
plots. Re-reading any good book debunking conspiracy theory and thinking,
even your own, and applying what you read to the Trump-centric world might
prove beneficial.

Straw man argument. Believing in ideological bias on the part of
bureaucrats is pretty mainstream.

Perhaps as important is the self-preservation instinct on their part.
They have furiously leaked against Trump, much more than Obama. But
Obama, in spite of being a liberal, didn't threaten their interests.

The whole tone of your post reminds me of this:

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

mainframetech

2018-02-24 21:38:58 UTC

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.
Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.

So you are a liberal, and when you encounter an argument you don't
like you engage in red baiting.
Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.
You recognize the irony in this, right?
http://youtu.be/bowhUWl6rxQ

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?
Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.
But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.
But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?

It's perfectly accurate to say that for liberals Russia has become the
"evil empire," that is a huge threat.

Odd. I thought that Ronald Reagan, a Republican, first called Russia
an 'evil empire':

"I urge you to beware the temptation of pride–the temptation of
blithely..uh..declaring yourselves above it all and label both sides
equally at fault, to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive
impulses of an evil empire, to simply call the arms race a giant
misunderstanding and thereby remove yourself from the struggle between
right and wrong and good and evil."

From: http://voicesofdemocracy.umd.edu/reagan-evil-empire-speech-text/

Post by John McAdams
Did you watch the video clip above? Noticed how Obama ridiculed
Romney?
Was Romney right?

Post by Ace Kefford
"The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?"

Guilt is guilt, no matter who the victim is, of course, we don't want
to give any credit to 'fake news' that issues from the White House
frequently.

That seems to depend on who is president, and who is stretching the
law.

Did the Republicans in power find any wrong to be done by Susan Rice?
Or was it the usual tempest in a teapot, as with Hillary and Benghazi?
No charges, no crime.

Post by John McAdams
Was the use of the Steele dossier to justify spying on Carter Page
"aimed at a particular party?"
Remember, it was attempted to be leaked to several mainstream media
outlets, and they rejected it as unreliable.
But it was fine for the FBI.

Post by Ace Kefford
But that's the
kind of real distinction that the "but what would" false equivalency
Trumpists and old-line Soviets like to gloss over.

You are begging the question when you call it "false equivalency."
It *ought* to disturb any civil libertarian.

There was, apparently, a small group that actually talked to each
other and were virulently anti-Trump. But it was a lot broader than
that.

Anti-Trump sentiment has been wide open and obvious. Why hide what the
majority feel?

Post by John McAdams
http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/21/exclusive-zero-registered-republicans-mueller-lawyer/

Straw man argument. Believing in ideological bias on the part of
bureaucrats is pretty mainstream.
Perhaps as important is the self-preservation instinct on their part.
They have furiously leaked against Trump, much more than Obama. But
Obama, in spite of being a liberal, didn't threaten their interests.
http://youtu.be/lfgIawRDQM4
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

John McAdams

2018-02-24 21:49:14 UTC

Post by John McAdams
Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.
You recognize the irony in this, right?
http://youtu.be/bowhUWl6rxQ

Post by Ace Kefford
All of us on the the left/liberal end of things are well aware of the bias
that can be found in official investigative reports. Hoover's FBI was the
worst for it. You can read lots of books about it if you are interested.

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?
Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.
But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.
But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?

It's perfectly accurate to say that for liberals Russia has become the
"evil empire," that is a huge threat.

Odd. I thought that Ronald Reagan, a Republican, first called Russia
"I urge you to beware the temptation of pridethe temptation of
blithely..uh..declaring yourselves above it all and label both sides
equally at fault, to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive
impulses of an evil empire, to simply call the arms race a giant
misunderstanding and thereby remove yourself from the struggle between
right and wrong and good and evil."
From: http://voicesofdemocracy.umd.edu/reagan-evil-empire-speech-text/

And now you agree with Reagan?

That's odd, since liberals condemned the speech.

<quote on>

What Reagan said was exactly right, and sorely needed. But thats not
how liberals saw it. The left, naturally, went bonkers, accusing
Reagan of all sorts of evil and pride and temptation worst of all,
of America-centrism. But its funny what the left doesnt remember:
Before Reagan pointed the finger at the USSR, he paused in the speech
to point it inward at the faults and moral evils of his own country:
Our nation, too, has a legacy of evil with which it must deal, said
Reagan. For example, the long struggle of minority citizens for equal
rights. There is no room for racism, anti-Semitism, or other forms of
ethnic and racial hatred in this country.

<end quote>

https://spectator.org/33780_reagans-evil-empire-turns-30/

Post by John McAdams
Did you watch the video clip above? Noticed how Obama ridiculed
Romney?
Was Romney right?

No answer from Mainframe.

Post by Ace Kefford
"The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?"

Guilt is guilt, no matter who the victim is, of course, we don't want
to give any credit to 'fake news' that issues from the White House
frequently.

But you accept fake news from CNN.

Post by John McAdams
Was the Susan Rice unmasking of Trump associates aimed at a particular
political party?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/23/obama-administration-records-on-trump-team-unmasking-withheld-from-judicial-watch.html

Did the Republicans in power find any wrong to be done by Susan Rice?
Or was it the usual tempest in a teapot, as with Hillary and Benghazi?
No charges, no crime.

No charges against Trump. J. Edgar Hoover was never charged with a
crime either. Abuses don't ncessarily lead to indictments.

But you evaded my question about Rice.

Directed against a particular party or not?

Post by John McAdams
Was the use of the Steele dossier to justify spying on Carter Page
"aimed at a particular party?"

No answer from Mainframe.

Post by John McAdams
There was, apparently, a small group that actually talked to each
other and were virulently anti-Trump. But it was a lot broader than
that.

Anti-Trump sentiment has been wide open and obvious. Why hide what the
majority feel?

The FBI is not supposed to be moved by ideological bias.

In fact, I think it's more likely moved by bureaucratic
self-preservation.

In J. Edgar Hoover's time, anti-communist sentiment was wide open and
obvious. Does that justify what he did?

.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

Anthony Marsh

2018-02-26 04:49:08 UTC

Post by John McAdams
Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.
You recognize the irony in this, right?
http://youtu.be/bowhUWl6rxQ

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?
Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.
But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.
But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?

It's perfectly accurate to say that for liberals Russia has become the
"evil empire," that is a huge threat.

Odd. I thought that Ronald Reagan, a Republican, first called Russia
"I urge you to beware the temptation of pride–the temptation of
blithely..uh..declaring yourselves above it all and label both sides
equally at fault, to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive
impulses of an evil empire, to simply call the arms race a giant
misunderstanding and thereby remove yourself from the struggle between
right and wrong and good and evil."
From: http://voicesofdemocracy.umd.edu/reagan-evil-empire-speech-text/

And now you agree with Reagan?
That's odd, since liberals condemned the speech.

As I said before, the politics about Russia have flipped. The
Republicans are no pro-Russia and the Democrats are now anti-Russia.
And you aren't old enough to remember when the US and the Russian were
ALLIES against Nazi Germany.

Post by John McAdams
<quote on>
What Reagan said was exactly right, and sorely needed. But that’s not
how liberals saw it. The left, naturally, went bonkers, accusing
Reagan of all sorts of evil and pride and temptation — worst of all,

You mean like America First? You thought Trump invented that!

Post by John McAdams
Before Reagan pointed the finger at the USSR, he paused in the speech
“Our nation, too, has a legacy of evil with which it must deal,” said
Reagan. “For example, the long struggle of minority citizens for equal
rights…. There is no room for racism, anti-Semitism, or other forms of
ethnic and racial hatred in this country.”
<end quote>

OMG, you just let someone say anti-Semitism in this newsgroup!

Post by John McAdams
https://spectator.org/33780_reagans-evil-empire-turns-30/

Post by John McAdams
Did you watch the video clip above? Noticed how Obama ridiculed
Romney?
Was Romney right?

No answer from Mainframe.

Not far enough Right for Trump.

Post by Ace Kefford
"The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?"

Guilt is guilt, no matter who the victim is, of course, we don't want
to give any credit to 'fake news' that issues from the White House
frequently.

But you accept fake news from CNN.

Don't watch CNN. Were you thinking of NSNBC?
You prefer covered up news from The National Enquirer to protect your
hero Trump. How much did he have to pay to kill the story about the
abortion he paid for?

Did the Republicans in power find any wrong to be done by Susan Rice?
Or was it the usual tempest in a teapot, as with Hillary and Benghazi?
No charges, no crime.

No charges against Trump. J. Edgar Hoover was never charged with a
crime either. Abuses don't ncessarily lead to indictments.

You just figured that out this year only because it applies to Trump?
Was Hillary Clinton indicted? Was Bill Clinton indicted?
Was Nixon indicted?

Post by John McAdams
But you evaded my question about Rice.
Directed against a particular party or not?

Post by John McAdams
Was the use of the Steele dossier to justify spying on Carter Page
"aimed at a particular party?"

No answer from Mainframe.

I answered that before. Get a better time machine, Doctor.

Post by John McAdams
There was, apparently, a small group that actually talked to each
other and were virulently anti-Trump. But it was a lot broader than
that.

Anti-Trump sentiment has been wide open and obvious. Why hide what the
majority feel?

The FBI is not supposed to be moved by ideological bias.
In fact, I think it's more likely moved by bureaucratic
self-preservation.
In J. Edgar Hoover's time, anti-communist sentiment was wide open and
obvious. Does that justify what he did?

Did that justify the letter to Martin Luther King, Jr. telling him to
commit suicide?

Post by John McAdams
.John
-----------------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm

mainframetech

2018-02-26 22:34:36 UTC

Post by John McAdams
Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.
You recognize the irony in this, right?
http://youtu.be/bowhUWl6rxQ

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?
Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.
But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.
But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?

It's perfectly accurate to say that for liberals Russia has become the
"evil empire," that is a huge threat.

And now you agree with Reagan?

I didn't say I agreed with Reagan, but at that time I was a law & order
Republican. I also foolishly believed that Oswald was guilty all alone
for killing JFK. I got away from all my foolishness when Bush got into
office and I saw the hand writing on the wall. I realized that being a
Republican was the worst I could do, and became an Independent who knew
that the JFK killing was a conspiracy.

Post by John McAdams
That's odd, since liberals condemned the speech.
<quote on>
What Reagan said was exactly right, and sorely needed. But that’s not
how liberals saw it. The left, naturally, went bonkers, accusing
Reagan of all sorts of evil and pride and temptation — worst of all,
Before Reagan pointed the finger at the USSR, he paused in the speech
“Our nation, too, has a legacy of evil with which it must deal,” said
Reagan. “For example, the long struggle of minority citizens for equal
rights…. There is no room for racism, anti-Semitism, or other forms of
ethnic and racial hatred in this country.”
<end quote>
https://spectator.org/33780_reagans-evil-empire-turns-30/

Post by John McAdams
Did you watch the video clip above? Noticed how Obama ridiculed
Romney?
Was Romney right?

No answer from Mainframe.

I just looked back and saw there was reply now. I looked at the clip,
but didn't see Obama's name anywhere in the article. As a note, I agreed
with Reagan about Russia, but not with the almost religious term 'evil'
which was a bit much for me. I saw it as an expansionist country looking
to take over the whole ball of mud.

Post by Ace Kefford
"The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?"

Guilt is guilt, no matter who the victim is, of course, we don't want
to give any credit to 'fake news' that issues from the White House
frequently.

But you accept fake news from CNN.

Because YOU say it is? I see agreement with PBS and BBC and others
with CNN, and the only one that gets it wrong now and then is FOX News and
maybe a few radio commentators like Limbaugh. I see CNN apologizing when
they get it wrong as well. See if Trump ever really apologized for all
his mistakes.

Did the Republicans in power find any wrong to be done by Susan Rice?
Or was it the usual tempest in a teapot, as with Hillary and Benghazi?
No charges, no crime.

No charges against Trump. J. Edgar Hoover was never charged with a
crime either. Abuses don't ncessarily lead to indictments.

On the case of Trump and his legal problems, the case is still under
investigation, which is different from the Rice situation. The odds are
great that there will be pending charges lodged against Trump.

Post by John McAdams
But you evaded my question about Rice.
Directed against a particular party or not?

Doesn't matter, and the Republicans berated and questioned Hillary for
11 hours in congress, which she stood for, and came up with NO charges
recommended to law enforcement. At a time when there were all Republican
controls on the 3 areas of the USA, no charges could be found to tie on to
Hillary. Seems with all that desire to hold her accountable for something
SOMETHING could be found if she was so guilty of everything. Or was that
all political noise generated by we know who?

Post by John McAdams
Was the use of the Steele dossier to justify spying on Carter Page
"aimed at a particular party?"

No answer from Mainframe.

Because I only now looked to see if there were any responses. I'll be
happy to answer, and you know me well enough to know if I see it, I'll
respond. My answer to the Steele comment is that based on further info
from politicians, that the Steele Dossier was not only NOT the only thing
used for the warrant request, but was actually a less important reason
used. The FBI had data (apparently bad stuff) on Carter Page since 2013,
long before the Steele document came out. A note here on the Steele
Dossier, is that it has been and continues to be checked out by the FBI
and whatever they've been able to check has been found to be true.
Senator Diane Feinstein stated that she knew that not one item in the
Steele Dossier has been found to be incorrect so far.

Post by John McAdams
There was, apparently, a small group that actually talked to each
other and were virulently anti-Trump. But it was a lot broader than
that.

Anti-Trump sentiment has been wide open and obvious. Why hide what the
majority feel?

The FBI is not supposed to be moved by ideological bias.
In fact, I think it's more likely moved by bureaucratic
self-preservation.
In J. Edgar Hoover's time, anti-communist sentiment was wide open and
obvious. Does that justify what he did?

Each crime must be decided on its own. Of course, if it's the current
president, we should act quickly because there is too much that can be
damaged too quickly. As is already happening.

Chris

Anthony Marsh

2018-02-25 00:28:01 UTC

You'll apply the same standard to Carter Page, I trust? :-)

In spite of Lane's rather deep Communist connections, the real story
of who he was is shown in the fact that he, a Jew, represented the
Liberty Lobby.
Self aggrandizement for Mark Lane (with little respect for truth) was
always his agenda.

So you are a liberal, and when you encounter an argument you don't
like you engage in red baiting.
Way to go! All kind of things are topsy-turvy in the Trump era.
You recognize the irony in this, right?
http://youtu.be/bowhUWl6rxQ

OMG. If McAdams starts letting us talk about peoples sex lives, where
would it end? He'd have to let us talk about Trump raping 13-year-old
girls and defend Trump.

The question is: are you equally concerned about FBI abuses when
directed at Trump's people?
Remember, Lane had strong communist connections in the U.S. And one
Soviet source said he was connected to a Soviet agent.
But as you pointed out, there is no evidence he was ever taking orders
from the Soviets. And none that he ever turned over any classified
material to them.
But the same can be said of Carter Page.

Post by Ace Kefford
P.S. Got anything on Carter Page's sex life (a stomach-turning thought)?

Was the "golden showers" stuff in the Steele dossier equally
stomach-turning?

It's perfectly accurate to say that for liberals Russia has become the
"evil empire," that is a huge threat.
Did you watch the video clip above? Noticed how Obama ridiculed
Romney?
Was Romney right?

That seems to depend on who is president, and who is stretching the
law.

The Carter Page stuff started years before the Steele dossier. You are
getting confused by all your time travel, Doctor. Something like jet lag.

Post by John McAdams
Remember, it was attempted to be leaked to several mainstream media
outlets, and they rejected it as unreliable.

So you say. Not a fact. It was not their cup of tea and not what their
audiences wanted to hear.

Post by John McAdams
But it was fine for the FBI.

What was fine? Can't you see that the FBI is prosecuting those criminals
right now? That doesn't qualify as fine.

Post by Ace Kefford
But that's the
kind of real distinction that the "but what would" false equivalency
Trumpists and old-line Soviets like to gloss over.

You are begging the question when you call it "false equivalency."

No, we are pointing out that all Trump supporters just repeat his
talking points directly from cue cards.

Post by John McAdams
It *ought* to disturb any civil libertarian.

There was, apparently, a small group that actually talked to each
other and were virulently anti-Trump. But it was a lot broader than
that.

Wow, out of all the thousands of FBI agents 2 didn't like Trump.
What a scandal. Oh, the humanity.
That does not qualify as a Secret Society.

Post by John McAdams
http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/21/exclusive-zero-registered-republicans-mueller-lawyer/

Of course you would cite a source like that. Why not quote directly from
Fox News if you want to make people know how righwing you are?