Panorama on Brexit

[Vicky]

This was only a half hour programme and I felt they could have spent
longer. Also isn't it a programme that is meant to be serious and
reasonably clever? They had Umbrella walking off a blue flag with
stars on to illustrate leaving the EU. Unnecessary?

TA could discuss some of the points made or questions raised.Umrats
might know the answers, maybe I am just ignorant; why can't UK farmers
export to countries outside the EU? One farmer was saying Brexit would
give the chance to.

Food miles and food security are surely important. The former for the
environment and the latter for national security. Being in the EU
seemed to me to extend our borders and make the latter safer and also
importing from the EU is nearer than China or Australia.

They showed a community cafe in Birmingham making cheap meals for the
local population who are the poorest in the UK and the menu board has
5 or 6 kinds of coffee etc which I think of as luxuries to buy when
out, latte, cappuccino etc. They had people who were hungry and
struggling to afford food at all so I wonder if they'd buy those.

A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this? Also they get pumped
with hormones to fatten them and are fed on GM crops, which are both
currently not allowed here. We eat very little meat now and two out of
three grandchildren are given none, which pleases me.

[krw]

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

[Mike]

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

That was their argument, but this is G.M crop and does it seem 'natrull' to
keep cattle this way - if only the beef cattle could voice their side of
the story.

[Btms]

Post by Mike

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

That was their argument, but this is G.M crop and does it seem 'natrull' to
keep cattle this way - if only the beef cattle could voice their side of
the story.

Isn't this like turkeys voting for Christmas?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by Mike

Post by krw
Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

That was their argument, but this is G.M crop and does it seem 'natrull' to
keep cattle this way - if only the beef cattle could voice their side of
the story.

Of course, they'd not be too keen on being "beef cattle" anyway.

Whatever the pros and cons of GM crops, using the "natrull" argument
doesn't work with me: the majority of modern life is not "natural". I'd
have been dead years ago from common diseases, for a start.

[Btms]

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

I prefer grass fed beef from the Highlands for preference.

[krw]

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

I prefer grass fed beef from the Highlands for preference.

In the US they make great play of it being grain fed. Off to the
Highlands next year so will hopefully get some proper grass fed on our trip.

[Btms]

Post by krw

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

I prefer grass fed beef from the Highlands for preference.

In the US they make great play of it being grain fed. Off to the
Highlands next year so will hopefully get some proper grass fed on our trip.

The local Aviemore butcher is excellent. Their steak pies are worth every
calorie. We havent been up for a couple of years but are feeling the need
for 2018.

[krw]

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

I prefer grass fed beef from the Highlands for preference.

In the US they make great play of it being grain fed. Off to the
Highlands next year so will hopefully get some proper grass fed on our trip.

The local Aviemore butcher is excellent. Their steak pies are worth every
calorie. We havent been up for a couple of years but are feeling the need
for 2018.

Aviemore is a bit south of our intended destinations.

[Mike]

Post by krw

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

I prefer grass fed beef from the Highlands for preference.

In the US they make great play of it being grain fed. Off to the
Highlands next year so will hopefully get some proper grass fed on our trip.

The local Aviemore butcher is excellent. Their steak pies are worth every
calorie. We havent been up for a couple of years but are feeling the need
for 2018.

Aviemore is a bit south of our intended destinations.

You had better get your skates on then.😉

[Btms]

Post by Mike

Post by krw

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

I prefer grass fed beef from the Highlands for preference.

In the US they make great play of it being grain fed. Off to the
Highlands next year so will hopefully get some proper grass fed on our trip.

The local Aviemore butcher is excellent. Their steak pies are worth every
calorie. We havent been up for a couple of years but are feeling the need
for 2018.

Aviemore is a bit south of our intended destinations.

You had better get your skates on then.😉

Hasn't been a skating rink there for years.

[Btms]

Post by krw

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

I prefer grass fed beef from the Highlands for preference.

In the US they make great play of it being grain fed. Off to the
Highlands next year so will hopefully get some proper grass fed on our trip.

The local Aviemore butcher is excellent. Their steak pies are worth every
calorie. We havent been up for a couple of years but are feeling the need
for 2018.

Aviemore is a bit south of our intended destinations.

No point in going at all then. Back in the day SODAM made it to a devolved
bbq despite extreme difficulty.*

Anne never made it. Rumour is that she got delayed at the House of Bruar.
No truth at all in the story of the year she diverted to Dalwhinnie and was
delayed for several days. No truth at all.

[Penny]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 17:06:49 -0000 (UTC), Btms <***@thetames.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

I prefer grass fed beef from the Highlands for preference.

Have you tried Ifor's Wagyu from Montgomeryshire? He doesn't keep them
indoors, unlike traditional Japanese Wagyu, but feeds grass/clover, grain
and beer. <https://www.iforswelshwagyu.co.uk/>

[krw]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Btms

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

I prefer grass fed beef from the Highlands for preference.

Have you tried Ifor's Wagyu from Montgomeryshire? He doesn't keep them
indoors, unlike traditional Japanese Wagyu, but feeds grass/clover, grain
and beer. <https://www.iforswelshwagyu.co.uk/>

Not that I am aware. But I see they supply Ynyshir Hall and I hope to
eat there one day!

[Vicky]

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this?

Is it? OTOH grain fed beef often tastes better which might influence
the way in which the cattle are fed?

He said feeding them that way and the hormones make the meat marbled
which tastes better but what about animal welfare and our safety from
hormones?

[Mike]

Post by Vicky
This was only a half hour programme and I felt they could have spent
longer. Also isn't it a programme that is meant to be serious and
reasonably clever? They had Umbrella walking off a blue flag with
stars on to illustrate leaving the EU. Unnecessary?
TA could discuss some of the points made or questions raised.Umrats
might know the answers, maybe I am just ignorant; why can't UK farmers
export to countries outside the EU? One farmer was saying Brexit would
give the chance to.
Food miles and food security are surely important. The former for the
environment and the latter for national security. Being in the EU
seemed to me to extend our borders and make the latter safer and also
importing from the EU is nearer than China or Australia.
They showed a community cafe in Birmingham making cheap meals for the
local population who are the poorest in the UK and the menu board has
5 or 6 kinds of coffee etc which I think of as luxuries to buy when
out, latte, cappuccino etc. They had people who were hungry and
struggling to afford food at all so I wonder if they'd buy those.
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this? Also they get pumped
with hormones to fatten them and are fed on GM crops, which are both
currently not allowed here. We eat very little meat now and two out of
three grandchildren are given none, which pleases me.

The McToodles watched this and from the start with such a choreographed
opening, striding from table to machine to picker to flag etc. so as to fit
his opening lines, it felt rather set up and glib. Some good points made
and seeing the American farming techniques (have seen this sort of thing
before, but no less settling to see it again) makes me feel more than ever
that the meat should not land in the UK. It may be an answer to feeding the
world but I don't think it is the solution - as to Brexit good, or perhaps
bad - who knows???

[Vicky]

Post by Mike

Post by Vicky
This was only a half hour programme and I felt they could have spent
longer. Also isn't it a programme that is m
with hormones to fatten them and are fed on GM crops, which are both
currently not allowed here. We eat very little meat now and two out of
three grandchildren are given none, which pleases me.

The McToodles watched this and from the start with such a choreographed
opening, striding from table to machine to picker to flag etc. so as to fit
his opening lines, it felt rather set up and glib. Some good points made
and seeing the American farming techniques (have seen this sort of thing
before, but no less settling to see it again) makes me feel more than ever
that the meat should not land in the UK. It may be an answer to feeding the
world but I don't think it is the solution - as to Brexit good, or perhaps
bad - who knows???

But being in the EU is a more basic thing than just food or cars or
security. It is not having WW2 again.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <***@4ax.com>, Vicky
<***@gmail.com> writes:
[]

Post by Vicky
But being in the EU is a more basic thing than just food or cars or
security. It is not having WW2 again.

(Well, wouldn't it be WW3?) I'm not convinced by that argument. I know
the usual reply (or, to be fair, one of them) is that I haven't lived
through a war and am thus not in a position to comment.

_At present_, the main threat to civilization (as _we_ know it, anyway)
appears to be from different _types_ of entities than led to WWs I and
II; there, it was clearly defined states - official declarations of war,
that sort of thing. But things could change rapidly, in all sorts of
directions, including ones we haven't even thought of.

[steveski]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Vicky
But being in the EU is a more basic thing than just food or cars or
security. It is not having WW2 again.

(Well, wouldn't it be WW3?)

Old joke from when the idea of tactical nukes were considered by the West
as a means of neutralising [sic] the huge Soviet tank divisions on the
Rhine:

Q. When is a limited nuclear war not a limited nuclear war?

A. 30 seconds after it's started.

[krw]

Post by Vicky
It is not having WW2 again.

Better solved by not electing meglomaniacs - a close call with Mr A
Blair I would suggest.

[Btms]

Post by krw

Post by Vicky
It is not having WW2 again.

Better solved by not electing meglomaniacs - a close call with Mr A
Blair I would suggest.

The more global economy begs that question now. Integrated world trade is
far more relevant to controlling wars now.

[Btms]

Post by Vicky

Post by Mike

Post by Vicky
This was only a half hour programme and I felt they could have spent
longer. Also isn't it a programme that is m
with hormones to fatten them and are fed on GM crops, which are both
currently not allowed here. We eat very little meat now and two out of
three grandchildren are given none, which pleases me.

The McToodles watched this and from the start with such a choreographed
opening, striding from table to machine to picker to flag etc. so as to fit
his opening lines, it felt rather set up and glib. Some good points made
and seeing the American farming techniques (have seen this sort of thing
before, but no less settling to see it again) makes me feel more than ever
that the meat should not land in the UK. It may be an answer to feeding the
world but I don't think it is the solution - as to Brexit good, or perhaps
bad - who knows???

But being in the EU is a more basic thing than just food or cars or
security. It is not having WW2 again.

But it has gone too far and is no longer appropriate. It is too big, too
wide, too powerful and too inefficient? It wont reform and will implode.
Too many snouts in the trough.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message
[]

Post by Btms

Post by Vicky
But being in the EU is a more basic thing than just food or cars or
security. It is not having WW2 again.

But it has gone too far and is no longer appropriate. It is too big, too
wide, too powerful and too inefficient? It wont reform and will implode.
Too many snouts in the trough.

Interesting viewpoint (I'm assuming the "it" in question to be the EU.)
[I certainly agree with some of that viewpoint.] It will be interesting
to see how it changes after (and, presumably, starting before) Brexit;
since most of the major drivers within it don't want anything like
Brexit to ever happen again, I rather expect it to _increase_ its power
at least in that respect, i. e. to make it harder for current (and
future?) members to leave, i. e. the opposite of reform. Whether this
will cause implosion at some future point we will have to see.

On the too big, I'd never really thought that on its own was necessarily
a bad thing: presumably at least a proportion of the founders had
visions of a USE to rival (or rather equal) the USA. However, thinking
about it, NATO has not really grown much, and seems to be just about
surviving.

[Btms]

J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG-***@255soft.uk> wrote:


[]
.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On the too big, I'd never really thought that on its own was necessarily
a bad thing: presumably at least a proportion of the founders had
visions of a USE to rival (or rather equal) the USA. However, thinking
about it, NATO has not really grown much, and seems to be just about
surviving.

Just about is the word.

[Btms]

Vicky <***@gmail.com> wrote:

[]

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

[]
Food prices went up when we joined the EU so obviously they will go up when
we leave? Ehrm....

[krw]

Post by Btms
[]

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

[]
Food prices went up when we joined the EU so obviously they will go up when
we leave? Ehrm....

The EU membership has artificially kept sterling high in recent years
propped up by the mark.

Already sterling is trading at a more natural level which will aid
exports and life food costs.

The supermarkets are concerned at the shortage of milk in the UK market
- probably because they have been forcing dairy farmers out of business
by not paying a fair price to cover production costs and a decent
profit. We will import more (at a higher price because of sterling's
devaluation) and eventually they will pay our farmers more. The few
remaining dairy farmers will then actually make a profit.

[Fenny]

Post by krw
The supermarkets are concerned at the shortage of milk in the UK market
- probably because they have been forcing dairy farmers out of business
by not paying a fair price to cover production costs and a decent
profit. We will import more (at a higher price because of sterling's
devaluation) and eventually they will pay our farmers more. The few
remaining dairy farmers will then actually make a profit.

Well, breaking even would be a good start!

[Btms]

Post by krw

Post by Btms
[]

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

[]
Food prices went up when we joined the EU so obviously they will go up when
we leave? Ehrm....

The EU membership has artificially kept sterling high in recent years
propped up by the mark.
Already sterling is trading at a more natural level which will aid
exports and life food costs.
The supermarkets are concerned at the shortage of milk in the UK market
- probably because they have been forcing dairy farmers out of business
by not paying a fair price to cover production costs and a decent
profit. We will import more (at a higher price because of sterling's
devaluation) and eventually they will pay our farmers more. The few
remaining dairy farmers will then actually make a profit.

Sounds ok to me. Though I believe subsidy has ling skewed the cost of our
food and propped up farmers to achieve this. I suppose this could happen
again.

[BrritSki]

Post by krw

Post by Btms
[]

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

[]
Food prices went up when we joined the EU so obviously they will go up when
we leave? Ehrm....

The EU membership has artificially kept sterling high in recent years
propped up by the mark.
Already sterling is trading at a more natural level which will aid
exports and life food costs.
The supermarkets are concerned at the shortage of milk in the UK market
- probably because they have been forcing dairy farmers out of business
by not paying a fair price to cover production costs and a decent
profit. We will import more (at a higher price because of sterling's
devaluation) and eventually they will pay our farmers more. The few
remaining dairy farmers will then actually make a profit.

Sounds ok to me. Though I believe subsidy has ling skewed...

Mmmm, skewed ling.

[Btms]

Post by BrritSki

Post by krw

Post by Btms
[]

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

[]
Food prices went up when we joined the EU so obviously they will go up when
we leave? Ehrm....

The EU membership has artificially kept sterling high in recent years
propped up by the mark.
Already sterling is trading at a more natural level which will aid
exports and life food costs.
The supermarkets are concerned at the shortage of milk in the UK market
- probably because they have been forcing dairy farmers out of business
by not paying a fair price to cover production costs and a decent
profit. We will import more (at a higher price because of sterling's
devaluation) and eventually they will pay our farmers more. The few
remaining dairy farmers will then actually make a profit.

Sounds ok to me. Though I believe subsidy has ling skewed...

Mmmm, skewed ling.

That would skewered ling shurely.

[BrritSki]

Post by Btms

Post by BrritSki

Post by krw

Post by Btms
[]

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

[]
Food prices went up when we joined the EU so obviously they will go up when
we leave? Ehrm....

The EU membership has artificially kept sterling high in recent years
propped up by the mark.
Already sterling is trading at a more natural level which will aid
exports and life food costs.
The supermarkets are concerned at the shortage of milk in the UK market
- probably because they have been forcing dairy farmers out of business
by not paying a fair price to cover production costs and a decent
profit. We will import more (at a higher price because of sterling's
devaluation) and eventually they will pay our farmers more. The few
remaining dairy farmers will then actually make a profit.

Sounds ok to me. Though I believe subsidy has ling skewed...

Mmmm, skewed ling.

That would skewered ling shurely.

YADonnaKebabAICM5fallafels

[Sally Thompson]

Post by BrritSki

Post by krw

Post by Btms
[]

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

[]
Food prices went up when we joined the EU so obviously they will go up when
we leave? Ehrm....

The EU membership has artificially kept sterling high in recent years
propped up by the mark.
Already sterling is trading at a more natural level which will aid
exports and life food costs.
The supermarkets are concerned at the shortage of milk in the UK market
- probably because they have been forcing dairy farmers out of business
by not paying a fair price to cover production costs and a decent
profit. We will import more (at a higher price because of sterling's
devaluation) and eventually they will pay our farmers more. The few
remaining dairy farmers will then actually make a profit.

Sounds ok to me. Though I believe subsidy has ling skewed...

Mmmm, skewed ling.

A Norwegian speciality by the sound of it.

[Mike]

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by BrritSki

Post by krw

Post by Btms
[]

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

[]
Food prices went up when we joined the EU so obviously they will go up when
we leave? Ehrm....

The EU membership has artificially kept sterling high in recent years
propped up by the mark.
Already sterling is trading at a more natural level which will aid
exports and life food costs.
The supermarkets are concerned at the shortage of milk in the UK market
- probably because they have been forcing dairy farmers out of business
by not paying a fair price to cover production costs and a decent
profit. We will import more (at a higher price because of sterling's
devaluation) and eventually they will pay our farmers more. The few
remaining dairy farmers will then actually make a profit.

Sounds ok to me. Though I believe subsidy has ling skewed...

Mmmm, skewed ling.

A Norwegian speciality by the sound of it.

Does the taste ling-er?

[Btms]

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by BrritSki

Post by krw

Post by Btms
[]

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

[]
Food prices went up when we joined the EU so obviously they will go up when
we leave? Ehrm....

The EU membership has artificially kept sterling high in recent years
propped up by the mark.
Already sterling is trading at a more natural level which will aid
exports and life food costs.
The supermarkets are concerned at the shortage of milk in the UK market
- probably because they have been forcing dairy farmers out of business
by not paying a fair price to cover production costs and a decent
profit. We will import more (at a higher price because of sterling's
devaluation) and eventually they will pay our farmers more. The few
remaining dairy farmers will then actually make a profit.

Sounds ok to me. Though I believe subsidy has ling skewed...

Mmmm, skewed ling.

A Norwegian speciality by the sound of it.

Maybe but we do catch ling off the north cornwall coast.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <***@4ax.com>, Vicky
<***@gmail.com> writes:
[]

Post by Vicky
TA could discuss some of the points made or questions raised.Umrats
might know the answers, maybe I am just ignorant; why can't UK farmers
export to countries outside the EU? One farmer was saying Brexit would
give the chance to.

AIUI (which is hazily), it's not that they can't, it's that British
farming can't _independently_ make arrangements with non-EU countries.
(Britain already has - or had, but I _think_ they're still in place -
special concessions that allow us to import from New Zealand, for
example.) After Brexit, we won't have to negotiate as part of the EU,
but can do so on our own. (I am not in a position to say whether this is
a good or bad thing.)

Post by Vicky
Food miles and food security are surely important. The former for the
environment and the latter for national security. Being in the EU
seemed to me to extend our borders and make the latter safer and also
importing from the EU is nearer than China or Australia.

Agreed to some extent.

Post by Vicky
They showed a community cafe in Birmingham making cheap meals for the
local population who are the poorest in the UK and the menu board has
5 or 6 kinds of coffee etc which I think of as luxuries to buy when
out, latte, cappuccino etc. They had people who were hungry and
struggling to afford food at all so I wonder if they'd buy those.

That does seem very odd. (I have never intentionally even gone into any
of the coffee chains, at least not to buy coffee, as it seems very
expensive to me - and I _could_ easily afford it.) Was this cafe
catering _only_ to (for want of a better word) the poor, though, or did
it take other customers too? If so, perhaps their coffees help to
subsidise the Jill-type activities.

Post by Vicky
A former chief of Sainsburys was on and said Brexit would probably
bring higher prices, less choice and poorer quality. I wasn't

In the short term at least, I can't help but agree with him.

Post by Vicky
convinced by the Brexit supporter who said otherwise.

Wishful thinking, at least in the short term. (Longer term, who knows.)

Post by Vicky
They went ot look at US meat farms where cattle are in sheds or corals
and get fed grain that is harvested instead of the cattle being in
fields and grazing. Why is it cheaper to do this? Also they get pumped

I think cheap(-er than here) energy may enter into the equation, and
different climates (possibly water is more costly). Don't know though.
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