Duplicate key made from VIN # ?

Post by Jimmy
Is this a troll.... or is this a fact.
Can someone copy your VIN number off your dashboard and
then go to a dealer and have a key made from the number.... and
then go back and steal your car?
Car manufacturers aren't that stupid, are they?
Jimmy

No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to
the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

Edwin Pawlowski

2006-06-04 03:52:53 UTC

Post by Sharon K. Cooke
No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to
the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

The dealer may have the key code for a particular car though. My boss's
wife used his car and the electric locks failed. (door key and ignition key
were different) He had the key in his pocket, but he was in Europe at the
time. I called the dealer (60 miles away) and with some difficulty in
proving it was a legit situation, he gave the code to a local locksmith.

I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key. I
don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him the
vin.

Rob

2006-06-04 04:44:30 UTC

Post by Sharon K. Cooke
No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to
the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

The dealer may have the key code for a particular car though. My boss's
wife used his car and the electric locks failed. (door key and ignition key
were different) He had the key in his pocket, but he was in Europe at the
time. I called the dealer (60 miles away) and with some difficulty in
proving it was a legit situation, he gave the code to a local locksmith.
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key. I
don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him the
vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk
right up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in
plain view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key
codes lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able
to provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock
cylinder) when one is ordered by the dealer.

Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership
from the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good,
makes you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded
key for their vehicle to a crook.]

Jimmy

2006-06-04 08:16:19 UTC

"Rob" <***@insightbb.com> wrote in message news:4KGdnakZyfyy-***@adelphia.com...
<snip>

Post by Edwin Pawlowski
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key.
I don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him
the vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk right
up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in plain
view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key codes
lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able to
provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock cylinder)
when one is ordered by the dealer.
Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership from
the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good, makes
you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded key for
their vehicle to a crook.]

Are you telling me that I should take a piece of black electrical tape and
put it over my VIN number on my dashboard to keep my car from
getting stolen... for chrissakes...!

Jimmy

Nate Nagel

2006-06-04 11:55:23 UTC

Post by Jimmy
<snip>

Post by Edwin Pawlowski
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key.
I don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him
the vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk right
up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in plain
view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key codes
lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able to
provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock cylinder)
when one is ordered by the dealer.
Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership from
the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good, makes
you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded key for
their vehicle to a crook.]

Are you telling me that I should take a piece of black electrical tape and
put it over my VIN number on my dashboard to keep my car from
getting stolen... for chrissakes...!
Jimmy

that's actually not a bad idea.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Paradox

2006-06-04 17:56:32 UTC

Post by Nate Nagel

Post by Jimmy
<snip>

Post by Edwin Pawlowski
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key.
I don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him
the vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk right
up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in plain
view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key codes
lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able to
provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock cylinder)
when one is ordered by the dealer.
Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership from
the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good, makes
you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded key for
their vehicle to a crook.]

Are you telling me that I should take a piece of black electrical tape and
put it over my VIN number on my dashboard to keep my car from
getting stolen... for chrissakes...!
Jimmy

that's actually not a bad idea.
nate

You just need to cover up the last 8, cops get mad if you cover the whole
thing up and they want to check your VIN # against your insurance card to
make sure its not a hot car.

SgtSilicon

2006-06-07 01:35:03 UTC

Post by Paradox
You just need to cover up the last 8, cops get mad if you cover the whole
thing up and they want to check your VIN # against your insurance card to
make sure its not a hot car.

Who cares if cops don't like it? All that matters is if it complies
with law and regulation. Never heard of either that says you can't
place things on your dash that might cover that number up.

s***@gmail.com

2016-07-11 09:10:58 UTC

It is illeagal do cover the vin number check your local laws before covering any part of the number

William H. Bowen

2006-06-04 15:24:43 UTC

Post by Sharon K. Cooke
No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to
the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

The dealer may have the key code for a particular car though. My boss's
wife used his car and the electric locks failed. (door key and ignition key
were different) He had the key in his pocket, but he was in Europe at the
time. I called the dealer (60 miles away) and with some difficulty in
proving it was a legit situation, he gave the code to a local locksmith.
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key. I
don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him the
vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk
right up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in
plain view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key
codes lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able
to provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock
cylinder) when one is ordered by the dealer.
Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership
from the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good,
makes you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded
key for their vehicle to a crook.]

Rob,

GM also requires their dealers to keep records on any person that
requests a key based on VIN number. It is for the dealer's own
protection: if a dealer makes a key for someone that is not the owner
and that car gets stolen, the dealer is an accessory to that theft and
can, at the least, be subject o civil suit.

Here is a direct quote of Buick Bulletin 01-00-89-009:

Info - Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
#01-00-89-009
Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
2002 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks

General Motors has received reports from dealers and law enforcement
officials in various parts of the country regarding a new trend in
auto theft.

The current mode of operation is for a person (thief) to do the
following:

Pick out the vehicle he/she wishes to steal from a new/used car sales
facility or off the street.

Record the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).

Take the VIN to any dealership which cuts keys. In some instances they
have presented hand-written registration forms as proof of ownership.

The thief then returns and drives the vehicle from the location.

Cutting of replacement keys is serious business. General Motors
Policies and Procedures Manual, Section 3.2.5 (3.1.6 in Canada),
Replacement of Key Numbers & Security Chips, provides the following
guidelines: "For security and protection against auto theft, dealer
should verify vehicle ownership before providing replacement keys, key
numbers and/or security chips. Verification should include positive
identification of requester and verification of vehicle ownership
through registration."

Each dealership should (if they are in the business of cutting keys
for walk-in, phone, fax, or other requesters) make a permanent file,
by VIN, of all key requests. Copies of the following documents should
remain in each file:

Government-issued picture ID (for example, a driver's license)

Registration or other proof of ownership Registration should have
normal markings from the state/province which issued the registration
and possibly the receipt for payment recorded as well. Since each
state/province will be different, you will need to set up guidelines
for your dealership based on the current registration laws and or
policies of your state/province. We know of no law enforcement agency
or state/province vehicle registration office which will accept a
hand-written registration document.

Copy of the paid customer receipt which has the name of the employee
who cut and sold the key to the customer

When vehicle ownership cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, DO
NOT provide the keys. Refer the customer to the selling dealer or GM
Roadside Assistance.

Important
When a dealership calls the TRACS 2000 voice response system (Vintage
Group in Canada) for key codes, the dealer code is recorded by VIN, in
a permanent electronic file.
Cutting keys for anyone other than the registered vehicle owner may
result in the dealership and/or employee being charged with aiding and
abetting in grand theft auto and determined to be liable, in the event
the vehicle is subsequently stolen from another dealership or
customer.

Dealers may wish to designate one specific, trusted employee as the
person to handle all key requests.

ajtessier

2006-06-04 22:30:46 UTC

That sounds good but the vehicle owner or the police would have to know
where the key was cut. If the thief goes to that much trouble to get your
car it's not just for a joy ride, if the police don't stop it while it's
being driven to the chop shop nobody will know if they had keys or if it was
hot wired when it was stolen.

Al

Post by Sharon K. Cooke
No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to
the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

The dealer may have the key code for a particular car though. My boss's
wife used his car and the electric locks failed. (door key and ignition key
were different) He had the key in his pocket, but he was in Europe at the
time. I called the dealer (60 miles away) and with some difficulty in
proving it was a legit situation, he gave the code to a local locksmith.
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key.
I
don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him the
vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk
right up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in
plain view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key
codes lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able
to provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock
cylinder) when one is ordered by the dealer.
Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership
from the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good,
makes you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded
key for their vehicle to a crook.]

Rob,
GM also requires their dealers to keep records on any person that
requests a key based on VIN number. It is for the dealer's own
protection: if a dealer makes a key for someone that is not the owner
and that car gets stolen, the dealer is an accessory to that theft and
can, at the least, be subject o civil suit.
Info - Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
#01-00-89-009
Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
2002 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks
General Motors has received reports from dealers and law enforcement
officials in various parts of the country regarding a new trend in
auto theft.
The current mode of operation is for a person (thief) to do the
Pick out the vehicle he/she wishes to steal from a new/used car sales
facility or off the street.
Record the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).
Take the VIN to any dealership which cuts keys. In some instances they
have presented hand-written registration forms as proof of ownership.
The thief then returns and drives the vehicle from the location.
Cutting of replacement keys is serious business. General Motors
Policies and Procedures Manual, Section 3.2.5 (3.1.6 in Canada),
Replacement of Key Numbers & Security Chips, provides the following
guidelines: "For security and protection against auto theft, dealer
should verify vehicle ownership before providing replacement keys, key
numbers and/or security chips. Verification should include positive
identification of requester and verification of vehicle ownership
through registration."
Each dealership should (if they are in the business of cutting keys
for walk-in, phone, fax, or other requesters) make a permanent file,
by VIN, of all key requests. Copies of the following documents should
Government-issued picture ID (for example, a driver's license)
Registration or other proof of ownership Registration should have
normal markings from the state/province which issued the registration
and possibly the receipt for payment recorded as well. Since each
state/province will be different, you will need to set up guidelines
for your dealership based on the current registration laws and or
policies of your state/province. We know of no law enforcement agency
or state/province vehicle registration office which will accept a
hand-written registration document.
Copy of the paid customer receipt which has the name of the employee
who cut and sold the key to the customer
When vehicle ownership cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, DO
NOT provide the keys. Refer the customer to the selling dealer or GM
Roadside Assistance.
Important
When a dealership calls the TRACS 2000 voice response system (Vintage
Group in Canada) for key codes, the dealer code is recorded by VIN, in
a permanent electronic file.
Cutting keys for anyone other than the registered vehicle owner may
result in the dealership and/or employee being charged with aiding and
abetting in grand theft auto and determined to be liable, in the event
the vehicle is subsequently stolen from another dealership or
customer.
Dealers may wish to designate one specific, trusted employee as the
person to handle all key requests.

SgtSilicon

2006-06-07 01:40:50 UTC

On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 22:30:46 GMT, "ajtessier"

Post by ajtessier
That sounds good but the vehicle owner or the police would have to know
where the key was cut. If the thief goes to that much trouble to get your
car it's not just for a joy ride, if the police don't stop it while it's
being driven to the chop shop nobody will know if they had keys or if it was
hot wired when it was stolen.
Al

Chop shop or shipping container, depending on the demand for you car.

Shep

2006-06-04 23:53:00 UTC

Good, right out of the P and P manual.

Post by Sharon K. Cooke
No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to
the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

The dealer may have the key code for a particular car though. My boss's
wife used his car and the electric locks failed. (door key and ignition key
were different) He had the key in his pocket, but he was in Europe at the
time. I called the dealer (60 miles away) and with some difficulty in
proving it was a legit situation, he gave the code to a local locksmith.
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key.
I
don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him the
vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk
right up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in
plain view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key
codes lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able
to provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock
cylinder) when one is ordered by the dealer.
Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership
from the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good,
makes you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded
key for their vehicle to a crook.]

Rob,
GM also requires their dealers to keep records on any person that
requests a key based on VIN number. It is for the dealer's own
protection: if a dealer makes a key for someone that is not the owner
and that car gets stolen, the dealer is an accessory to that theft and
can, at the least, be subject o civil suit.
Info - Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
#01-00-89-009
Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
2002 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks
General Motors has received reports from dealers and law enforcement
officials in various parts of the country regarding a new trend in
auto theft.
The current mode of operation is for a person (thief) to do the
Pick out the vehicle he/she wishes to steal from a new/used car sales
facility or off the street.
Record the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).
Take the VIN to any dealership which cuts keys. In some instances they
have presented hand-written registration forms as proof of ownership.
The thief then returns and drives the vehicle from the location.
Cutting of replacement keys is serious business. General Motors
Policies and Procedures Manual, Section 3.2.5 (3.1.6 in Canada),
Replacement of Key Numbers & Security Chips, provides the following
guidelines: "For security and protection against auto theft, dealer
should verify vehicle ownership before providing replacement keys, key
numbers and/or security chips. Verification should include positive
identification of requester and verification of vehicle ownership
through registration."
Each dealership should (if they are in the business of cutting keys
for walk-in, phone, fax, or other requesters) make a permanent file,
by VIN, of all key requests. Copies of the following documents should
Government-issued picture ID (for example, a driver's license)
Registration or other proof of ownership Registration should have
normal markings from the state/province which issued the registration
and possibly the receipt for payment recorded as well. Since each
state/province will be different, you will need to set up guidelines
for your dealership based on the current registration laws and or
policies of your state/province. We know of no law enforcement agency
or state/province vehicle registration office which will accept a
hand-written registration document.
Copy of the paid customer receipt which has the name of the employee
who cut and sold the key to the customer
When vehicle ownership cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, DO
NOT provide the keys. Refer the customer to the selling dealer or GM
Roadside Assistance.
Important
When a dealership calls the TRACS 2000 voice response system (Vintage
Group in Canada) for key codes, the dealer code is recorded by VIN, in
a permanent electronic file.
Cutting keys for anyone other than the registered vehicle owner may
result in the dealership and/or employee being charged with aiding and
abetting in grand theft auto and determined to be liable, in the event
the vehicle is subsequently stolen from another dealership or
customer.
Dealers may wish to designate one specific, trusted employee as the
person to handle all key requests.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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SgtSilicon

2006-06-07 01:39:51 UTC

On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:24:43 GMT, William H. Bowen

Post by Sharon K. Cooke
No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to
the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

The dealer may have the key code for a particular car though. My boss's
wife used his car and the electric locks failed. (door key and ignition key
were different) He had the key in his pocket, but he was in Europe at the
time. I called the dealer (60 miles away) and with some difficulty in
proving it was a legit situation, he gave the code to a local locksmith.
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key. I
don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him the
vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk
right up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in
plain view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key
codes lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able
to provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock
cylinder) when one is ordered by the dealer.
Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership
from the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good,
makes you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded
key for their vehicle to a crook.]

Rob,
GM also requires their dealers to keep records on any person that
requests a key based on VIN number. It is for the dealer's own
protection: if a dealer makes a key for someone that is not the owner
and that car gets stolen, the dealer is an accessory to that theft and
can, at the least, be subject o civil suit.
Info - Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
#01-00-89-009
Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
2002 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks
General Motors has received reports from dealers and law enforcement
officials in various parts of the country regarding a new trend in
auto theft.
The current mode of operation is for a person (thief) to do the
Pick out the vehicle he/she wishes to steal from a new/used car sales
facility or off the street.
Record the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).
Take the VIN to any dealership which cuts keys. In some instances they
have presented hand-written registration forms as proof of ownership.
The thief then returns and drives the vehicle from the location.
Cutting of replacement keys is serious business. General Motors
Policies and Procedures Manual, Section 3.2.5 (3.1.6 in Canada),
Replacement of Key Numbers & Security Chips, provides the following
guidelines: "For security and protection against auto theft, dealer
should verify vehicle ownership before providing replacement keys, key
numbers and/or security chips. Verification should include positive
identification of requester and verification of vehicle ownership
through registration."
Each dealership should (if they are in the business of cutting keys
for walk-in, phone, fax, or other requesters) make a permanent file,
by VIN, of all key requests. Copies of the following documents should
Government-issued picture ID (for example, a driver's license)
Registration or other proof of ownership Registration should have
normal markings from the state/province which issued the registration
and possibly the receipt for payment recorded as well. Since each
state/province will be different, you will need to set up guidelines
for your dealership based on the current registration laws and or
policies of your state/province. We know of no law enforcement agency
or state/province vehicle registration office which will accept a
hand-written registration document.
Copy of the paid customer receipt which has the name of the employee
who cut and sold the key to the customer
When vehicle ownership cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, DO
NOT provide the keys. Refer the customer to the selling dealer or GM
Roadside Assistance.
Important
When a dealership calls the TRACS 2000 voice response system (Vintage
Group in Canada) for key codes, the dealer code is recorded by VIN, in
a permanent electronic file.
Cutting keys for anyone other than the registered vehicle owner may
result in the dealership and/or employee being charged with aiding and
abetting in grand theft auto and determined to be liable, in the event
the vehicle is subsequently stolen from another dealership or
customer.
Dealers may wish to designate one specific, trusted employee as the
person to handle all key requests.

Yeah but that's Canada. Here in the U.S. the government is on the
side of protecting the ability of businesses to operate how they want,
insulate them from any connection to crime or liability, and just give
lip service to protecting the rights of the common citizen. At least
if it might interfere with business interests.

William H. Bowen

2006-06-08 23:04:45 UTC

Post by SgtSilicon
On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 15:24:43 GMT, William H. Bowen

Post by Sharon K. Cooke
No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to
the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

The dealer may have the key code for a particular car though. My boss's
wife used his car and the electric locks failed. (door key and ignition key
were different) He had the key in his pocket, but he was in Europe at the
time. I called the dealer (60 miles away) and with some difficulty in
proving it was a legit situation, he gave the code to a local locksmith.
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key. I
don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him the
vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk
right up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in
plain view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key
codes lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able
to provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock
cylinder) when one is ordered by the dealer.
Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership
from the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good,
makes you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded
key for their vehicle to a crook.]

Rob,
GM also requires their dealers to keep records on any person that
requests a key based on VIN number. It is for the dealer's own
protection: if a dealer makes a key for someone that is not the owner
and that car gets stolen, the dealer is an accessory to that theft and
can, at the least, be subject o civil suit.
Info - Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
#01-00-89-009
Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips
2002 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks
General Motors has received reports from dealers and law enforcement
officials in various parts of the country regarding a new trend in
auto theft.
The current mode of operation is for a person (thief) to do the
Pick out the vehicle he/she wishes to steal from a new/used car sales
facility or off the street.
Record the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).
Take the VIN to any dealership which cuts keys. In some instances they
have presented hand-written registration forms as proof of ownership.
The thief then returns and drives the vehicle from the location.
Cutting of replacement keys is serious business. General Motors
Policies and Procedures Manual, Section 3.2.5 (3.1.6 in Canada),
Replacement of Key Numbers & Security Chips, provides the following
guidelines: "For security and protection against auto theft, dealer
should verify vehicle ownership before providing replacement keys, key
numbers and/or security chips. Verification should include positive
identification of requester and verification of vehicle ownership
through registration."
Each dealership should (if they are in the business of cutting keys
for walk-in, phone, fax, or other requesters) make a permanent file,
by VIN, of all key requests. Copies of the following documents should
Government-issued picture ID (for example, a driver's license)
Registration or other proof of ownership Registration should have
normal markings from the state/province which issued the registration
and possibly the receipt for payment recorded as well. Since each
state/province will be different, you will need to set up guidelines
for your dealership based on the current registration laws and or
policies of your state/province. We know of no law enforcement agency
or state/province vehicle registration office which will accept a
hand-written registration document.
Copy of the paid customer receipt which has the name of the employee
who cut and sold the key to the customer
When vehicle ownership cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, DO
NOT provide the keys. Refer the customer to the selling dealer or GM
Roadside Assistance.
Important
When a dealership calls the TRACS 2000 voice response system (Vintage
Group in Canada) for key codes, the dealer code is recorded by VIN, in
a permanent electronic file.
Cutting keys for anyone other than the registered vehicle owner may
result in the dealership and/or employee being charged with aiding and
abetting in grand theft auto and determined to be liable, in the event
the vehicle is subsequently stolen from another dealership or
customer.
Dealers may wish to designate one specific, trusted employee as the
person to handle all key requests.

The bulletin I cited applies to GM delaers in the US as well. The
reference to Canada is to the outside vendor that GM-Canada uses for
data warehousing.

Bill

m***@gmail.com

2018-05-30 17:21:24 UTC

Post by Sharon K. Cooke
No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to
the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

The dealer may have the key code for a particular car though. My boss's
wife used his car and the electric locks failed. (door key and ignition key
were different) He had the key in his pocket, but he was in Europe at the
time. I called the dealer (60 miles away) and with some difficulty in
proving it was a legit situation, he gave the code to a local locksmith.
I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key. I
don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him the
vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you
ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk
right up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in
plain view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key
codes lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able
to provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock
cylinder) when one is ordered by the dealer.
Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership
from the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of
personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers
frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good,
makes you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded
key for their vehicle to a crook.]

This is 100% false. I work at a Toyota dealer. Picture ID and at least 2 other forms with your name and address on them are required proving that you own the car. I.E. Title, registration, insurance...

They make it very clear if you request a keycode without knowing who it is, and they steal a car. Your ass is grass and you will most likely be going to prison.

KjunRaven

2006-06-04 14:03:08 UTC

its a FACT! with GM at least.....i have many keys cut a year (rental fleet)
with nothing but the VIN......now, if the system is protected with theft
prevention all the key will do is get you in the door......ford seems to be
adifferent story tho. they force me to find the selling dealer and hope he
does a good job on paperwork..............kjun

William H. Bowen

2006-06-04 15:32:46 UTC

Post by KjunRaven

Kjun,

If the dealer knows you and does business with you, that is a
different story than someone just walking in off the street. GM, in
the P&P Manual, requires their dealers to keep records of all key
requests from VIN numbers - also, when a dealer calls the automated
system GM has for them to get key codes, the dealer's code and the VIN
is recorded.

See the other post I placed in this thread for the complete text of
Buick Service Bulletin regarding this subject.

Regards,
Bill Bowen
Sacramento, CA

Mike Hunter

2006-06-04 15:47:10 UTC

No they are not, and no you can not simply copy a VIN number off a car and
go to a dealer and have a key made from the number. Any body who tries to
tell you somthing different has no idea what they are talking about.

There is not ralationship to the VIN and the key code excect a dealer can
'sometimes' obtain the key code by knowing the VIN, in orded to cut a key,
for a person whom they can varify as the owner. If the vehilce is titled to
anybody other than a single named owner, you may have a problem ketting a
key cut in any event

mike hunt

shiden_kai

2006-06-04 17:59:07 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
No they are not, and no you can not simply copy a VIN number off a
car and go to a dealer and have a key made from the number. Any body
who tries to tell you somthing different has no idea what they are
talking about.
There is not ralationship to the VIN and the key code excect a dealer
can 'sometimes' obtain the key code by knowing the VIN, in orded to
cut a key, for a person whom they can varify as the owner. If the
vehilce is titled to anybody other than a single named owner, you may
have a problem ketting a key cut in any event

Mike, you are wrong, we do it all the time at our dealership. There is
a relationship between the VIN and the key code. Didn't we have this
discussion before already?

Ian

Mike Hunter

2006-06-04 21:35:42 UTC

If that is what you still believe, than you are still incorrect. The is no
single digit or combination of digits in the VIN that will allow a person to
discover the key code with which to enable anybody to cut a key, at your
dealership or any other.

The VIN will reveal the registered owner and that will permit an authorized
person to find the key code, IF it was recorded, from the key tab by the
selling dealership, at some point.

Therefore my answer to the question asked, can anybody get a key cut by
observing ones VIN #, is accurate.

mike hunt

Mike, you are wrong, we do it all the time at our dealership. There is
a relationship between the VIN and the key code. Didn't we have this
discussion before already?
Ian

aarcuda69062

2006-06-04 23:34:40 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
If that is what you still believe, than you are still incorrect.

Which part about Ian sees this every day in the [GM] dealership
where he works is too hard for you to understand?

Post by Mike Hunter
The is no
single digit or combination of digits in the VIN that will allow a person to
discover the key code with which to enable anybody to cut a key, at your
dealership or any other.

You're claiming that GM is incapable of maintaining a [very]
simple database. They're inept, but not -that- inept.

Post by Mike Hunter
The VIN will reveal the registered owner and that will permit an authorized
person to find the key code, IF it was recorded, from the key tab by the
selling dealership, at some point.

How many decades have you been out of the loop?
Here's a news flash; the VIN is now used to determine many things
about which specific equipment was installed on a vehicle when it
was built, right down to the interior trim color and whether it
has power seats and rear air conditioning. Is this coded in the
VIN? Of course not (and no one claimed that it was), but the VIN
allows access to a database that contains the information.
No different than pushing a sequence of buttons on a radio to get
a numerical readout, inputting those numbers into an automated
telephone database and getting an unlock code.
<zoom, right over Hunters head>

Post by Mike Hunter
Therefore my answer to the question asked, can anybody get a key cut by
observing ones VIN #, is accurate.

No it is not, not by current technology.

Mike Hunter

2006-06-05 14:02:26 UTC

That may be your opinion but you do not know what you are talking about.
You can prove it to yourself, take down somebody VIN go to a dealership and
ask them to cut you a key and see what happens. LOL

mike hunt

Post by Mike Hunter
If that is what you still believe, than you are still incorrect.
The is no
single digit or combination of digits in the VIN that will allow a person to
discover the key code with which to enable anybody to cut a key, at your
dealership or any other.
The VIN will reveal the registered owner and that will permit an authorized
person to find the key code, IF it was recorded, from the key tab by the
selling dealership, at some point.

Post by Mike Hunter
Therefore my answer to the question asked, can anybody get a key cut by
observing ones VIN #, is accurate.

No it is not, not by current technology.

aarcuda69062

2006-06-06 00:24:06 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
That may be your opinion but you do not know what you are talking about.

Says the guy who insists that there was a Mitsubishi V-6 engine
option in a Chrysler product that required that the engine be
jacked up in order to change the oil filter; a fact that's been
refuted by two different (Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth) dealership
mechanics in two different countries who together have a combined
working experience of over 50 years.

Post by Mike Hunter
You can prove it to yourself, take down somebody VIN go to a dealership and
ask them to cut you a key and see what happens. LOL

Don't need to, I've already done it.
Maybe it's because I have a 26 year working history at the GM
dealership and they know that it's a legitimate request.
Maybe it's because my brother in law works at the Dodge
dealership where I have a 30 year working history and they know
that it's a legitimate request.
Maybe it's because I have a 18 year working history at the Ford
dealership and they know it's a legitimate request.

If it never worked for you maybe it's because you talk funny...
I bet that you get laughed at and ignored a LOT.

Face it Hunter, there are lots of things that -I- can do that you
can't even begin to fathom.

Mike Hunter

2006-06-06 01:43:38 UTC

How much did you get for the vehicle you stole? LOL

mike hunt

Post by Mike Hunter
That may be your opinion but you do not know what you are talking about.
You can prove it to yourself, take down somebody VIN go to a dealership and
ask them to cut you a key and see what happens. LOL

Don't need to, I've already done it.

aarcuda69062

2006-06-06 02:08:19 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
How much did you get for the vehicle you stole? LOL

"Stole?" According to you, that would be impossible.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that that is all the farther
that your brain can comprehend.

Ever hear of locks that don't work as they should? Has it
occurred to you that there are trained service personnel out
there whose job it is to repair such problems? Or should they
just throw the vehicle away because the ignition lock is stuck?

Imagine that... I can call a dealership parts department and have
an ignition lock cylinder coded and ready to go that matches the
original key. They actually -do- that if you're not brain dead.

shiden_kai

2006-06-06 00:50:15 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
That may be your opinion but you do not know what you are talking
about. You can prove it to yourself, take down somebody VIN go to a
dealership and ask them to cut you a key and see what happens. LOL

No problem, just did it with my son's car today.

And for the other folks reading, there are still plenty of vehicles
that do not use security style keys.

Ian

Mike Hunter

2006-06-06 01:45:26 UTC

What does getting key cut for you sons car have to do with stealing somebody
car? LOL

mike hunt

Post by Mike Hunter
That may be your opinion but you do not know what you are talking
about. You can prove it to yourself, take down somebody VIN go to a
dealership and ask them to cut you a key and see what happens. LOL

No problem, just did it with my son's car today.
And for the other folks reading, there are still plenty of vehicles
that do not use security style keys.
Ian

aarcuda69062

2006-06-06 02:12:22 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
What does getting key cut for you sons car have to do with stealing somebody
car? LOL

Nothing. (I'm sure that Ian carries the title to his sons car in
his wallet)
But it does prove that the only thing(s) you know about
dealership operations is where the mens room was and where the
owner hid his bottle of Gin.

shiden_kai

2006-06-06 02:20:59 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
What does getting key cut for you sons car have to do with stealing
somebody car? LOL

You are the one that says a person can't read a VIN and get
a key cut that works. You are wrong. You also assume that
criminals can't have people working on the inside. Fortunately,
our dealership requires proof of ownership before they will
cut keys for anyone.

Ian

jcr

2006-06-09 00:26:11 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
What does getting key cut for you sons car have to do with stealing
somebody car? LOL

Of course he is wrong on this one.

Mike Hunter

2006-06-09 02:04:28 UTC

If that is what you believe try to get a key cut for your neighbors car and
see what happens LOL

mike hunt

Post by jcr

Post by Mike Hunter
What does getting key cut for you sons car have to do with stealing
somebody car? LOL

Of course he is wrong on this one.

jcr

2006-06-09 00:24:07 UTC

I left my 1987 Caravan at a dealer for work 15 years ago and forgot to
leave the key for them. When I got to work and realized what had
happened, I called my service adviser to see if I had to get a ride back
there to give them the key. I was told by the service adviser that she
had another key made from the VIN# and I didn't need to come in. So,
dealers obviously have had the capability to do this for over 10 years
now!

Mike Hunter

2006-06-09 02:02:48 UTC

Duh that was YOUR car. LOL

mike hunt

Post by jcr

Post by Mike Hunter
That may be your opinion but you do not know what you are talking about.
You can prove it to yourself, take down somebody VIN go to a dealership
and ask them to cut you a key and see what happens. LOL

Mike Levy

2006-06-05 21:28:53 UTC

You're splitting hairs. No, you cannot determine the key code using a
single character in the VIN, and I don't think anyone other than
yourself said something to indicate they thought this. However, the
VIN may be used, by an authorized person, to obtain the code using
GM's database. I can't imagine GM is unable to record the key code
used on a given vehicle at the time of assembly and leaves it up to
the selling dealer to record this code, thus forcing the owner to FIND
said selling dealer (if no the original owner) to make a new key. As
was said before, GM isn't THAT inept or poor at record-keeping. Not
to mention that it would make road-side assistance calls VERY
difficult if an owner needs a key cut while on vacation because theirs
got dropped in the ocean.

Now, if the vehicle in question has been re-keyed, that's another
story.

On Sun, 4 Jun 2006 17:35:42 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Post by Mike Hunter
If that is what you still believe, than you are still incorrect. The is no
single digit or combination of digits in the VIN that will allow a person to
discover the key code with which to enable anybody to cut a key, at your
dealership or any other.
The VIN will reveal the registered owner and that will permit an authorized
person to find the key code, IF it was recorded, from the key tab by the
selling dealership, at some point.
Therefore my answer to the question asked, can anybody get a key cut by
observing ones VIN #, is accurate.
mike hunt

Mike, you are wrong, we do it all the time at our dealership. There is
a relationship between the VIN and the key code. Didn't we have this
discussion before already?
Ian

Mike Hunter

2006-06-05 23:48:57 UTC

What part of 'The VIN will reveal the registered owner and that will permit
an authorized person to find the key code and have a key cut for your car,'
did you not understand?

If you knew anything about what happens on the assembly line you would know
the manufacture does not record the key code at time of assembly. The key
code is determined by the supplier and recorded on the tabs attached to the
keys, included with the lock set, that comes out of a box on the assembly
line. When the car is reported to the manufacture as sold by the
dealership, the key code is supplied by the dealership to the manufacture
for the data base and warranty purposes. It is also supplied to the lending
institution, although, with all the litigation today some prefer to be
simply be given a PAT key.. Some dealership will not reveal the code to
anybody, not even the manufacture for the same reason.

Dealerships do have a computerized key cutter that can cut another, but it
can not install the PAT code if you do not have a SECOND key to enter into
the machine. It can only do so if one has TWO keys. In the absence of a
second key a separate scan tool must be attached to the vehicle, to down
load the PAT code off the vehicle microprocessor. That is why it costs so
much to have a PAT key cut, if a person does not have a second key. Things
are designed that way so that somebody, like a valet parking attendant can
not copy your ONE key, or a person having only the VIN can not have a key
made that will start YOUR car.

So in essence for a dealership to cut a key that will start your car they
need the car, or two keys. My answer to the original question, 'Can anybody
simply look at your VIN and go to a dealership and get a key cut, still
stands as the correct answer to the question asked, no they can not.

PS My advice always take a second key when away from home. When I travel,
my wife takes her key to that car as well, and I carry a key hidden inside
my cars for that reason. It is not like the old days when you could have a
key cut anywhere just by carrying the key code with you. ;)

mike hunt

Post by Mike Levy
You're splitting hairs. No, you cannot determine the key code using a
single character in the VIN, and I don't think anyone other than
yourself said something to indicate they thought this. However, the
VIN may be used, by an authorized person, to obtain the code using
GM's database. I can't imagine GM is unable to record the key code
used on a given vehicle at the time of assembly and leaves it up to
the selling dealer to record this code, thus forcing the owner to FIND
said selling dealer (if no the original owner) to make a new key. As
was said before, GM isn't THAT inept or poor at record-keeping. Not
to mention that it would make road-side assistance calls VERY
difficult if an owner needs a key cut while on vacation because theirs
got dropped in the ocean.
Now, if the vehicle in question has been re-keyed, that's another
story.

Edwin Pawlowski

2006-06-05 23:55:12 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
my cars for that reason. It is not like the old days when you could have
a key cut anywhere just by carrying the key code with you. ;)

In the really good old days, I remember trying the 55 Chevy keys and it
fitting some other GM cars of that era. No need for codes, just try enough
and you will find the right one.

aarcuda69062

2006-06-06 01:56:09 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
What part of 'The VIN will reveal the registered owner and that will permit
an authorized person to find the key code and have a key cut for your car,'
did you not understand?

The VIN will reveal the registered owner at the Department of
Motor Vehicles. There is a much less than 100% chance that the
OEM can track an owner via VIN once the car has changed hands
until and/or unless the new owner frequents a dealership and the
VIN is reassigned to the new owner/customer.

Post by Mike Hunter
If you knew anything about what happens on the assembly line you would know
the manufacture does not record the key code at time of assembly. The key
code is determined by the supplier and recorded on the tabs attached to the
keys, included with the lock set, that comes out of a box on the assembly
line. When the car is reported to the manufacture as sold by the
dealership, the key code is supplied by the dealership to the manufacture
for the data base and warranty purposes. It is also supplied to the lending
institution, although, with all the litigation today some prefer to be
simply be given a PAT key.. Some dealership will not reveal the code to
anybody, not even the manufacture for the same reason.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph. The alpha numeric key codes were printed
on the window sticker as far back as 1980. The alpha numeric
codes and the Briggs&Stratton master code manual were all that
was needed to cut new keys. If I did it once, I did it one
hundred times after a transport driver did an after hours
delivery and locked the keys in the car instead of walking his
lazy ass over to the after hours keys deposit slot and dropping
them in.

Post by Mike Hunter
Dealerships do have a computerized key cutter that can cut another, but it
can not install the PAT code if you do not have a SECOND key to enter into
the machine. It can only do so if one has TWO keys. In the absence of a
second key a separate scan tool must be attached to the vehicle, to down
load the PAT code off the vehicle microprocessor. That is why it costs so
much to have a PAT key cut, if a person does not have a second key. Things
are designed that way so that somebody, like a valet parking attendant can
not copy your ONE key, or a person having only the VIN can not have a key
made that will start YOUR car.

Not all cars have Passive Anti-Theft, and not all PATS vehicles
have the PATS coded into the key, so stop with the red herring.

Post by Mike Hunter
So in essence for a dealership to cut a key that will start your car they
need the car, or two keys. My answer to the original question, 'Can anybody
simply look at your VIN and go to a dealership and get a key cut, still
stands as the correct answer to the question asked, no they can not.

Happens every day.

Post by Mike Hunter
PS My advice always take a second key when away from home. When I travel,
my wife takes her key to that car as well, and I carry a key hidden inside
my cars for that reason. It is not like the old days when you could have a
key cut anywhere just by carrying the key code with you. ;)

That something this simple is a two person job in your household
is not surprising...

Mike Hunter

2006-06-06 03:01:52 UTC

I guess you are free to believe whatever you wish LOL

mike hunt

Post by Mike Hunter
What part of 'The VIN will reveal the registered owner and that will permit
an authorized person to find the key code and have a key cut for your car,'
did you not understand?

Post by Mike Hunter
Dealerships do have a computerized key cutter that can cut another, but it
can not install the PAT code if you do not have a SECOND key to enter into
the machine. It can only do so if one has TWO keys. In the absence of a
second key a separate scan tool must be attached to the vehicle, to down
load the PAT code off the vehicle microprocessor. That is why it costs so
much to have a PAT key cut, if a person does not have a second key.
Things
are designed that way so that somebody, like a valet parking attendant can
not copy your ONE key, or a person having only the VIN can not have a key
made that will start YOUR car.

Not all cars have Passive Anti-Theft, and not all PATS vehicles
have the PATS coded into the key, so stop with the red herring.

Happens every day.

That something this simple is a two person job in your household
is not surprising...

aarcuda69062

2006-06-06 12:02:12 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
I guess you are free to believe whatever you wish LOL
mike hunt

All you do is guess.

Rob

2006-06-04 18:13:26 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
No they are not, and no you can not simply copy a VIN number off a car and
go to a dealer and have a key made from the number. Any body who tries to
tell you somthing different has no idea what they are talking about.
There is not ralationship to the VIN and the key code excect a dealer can
'sometimes' obtain the key code by knowing the VIN, in orded to cut a key,
for a person whom they can varify as the owner. If the vehilce is titled to
anybody other than a single named owner, you may have a problem ketting a
key cut in any event
mike hunt

Michael, Michael, Michael

I admire your strength of conviction, but as usual you are as full of
shit as a Christmas turkey. Life in your parallel universe must be a
wonderful thing. "But most of us don't live anywhere near perfect ..."

Mike Hunter

2006-06-04 22:03:00 UTC

Nor do you live in THIS world apparently, what color is the sky in YOUR
world? My knowledge of the question ask is based on my years as Group Sales
Manager for one of the largest mega-deal groups on the east cost. In my
reply to the original poster to the question; 'Can someone copy your VIN
number off your dashboard and then go to a dealer and have a key made from
the number,' I said in part, no and anybody who tries to tell you something
different has no idea what they are talking about. You are entitle to your
opinion but not your own facts.

A quick search of the NHTSA site, for the definition of the seventeen digits
of the VIN, will reveal you are wrong my dear friend Rob, not me, there is
nothing in the VIN concerning the key code. No dealership would authorize
any employee to cut a key for any person, not know by the dealership to be
the rightful owner of that vehicle, simply because they knew the VIN. .

If you discover anything different than what is found on the NHTSA site, I
would be more than glad to look at any evidence to the contrary. ;)

By the way do you EVER have friends over for Christmas dinner that eats your
stuffing,? ;)

mike hunt

Post by Mike Hunter
No they are not, and no you can not simply copy a VIN number off a car
and go to a dealer and have a key made from the number. Any body who
tries to tell you somthing different has no idea what they are talking
about.
There is no ralationship to the VIN and the key code except a dealer can
'sometimes' obtain the key code by knowing the VIN, in orded to cut a
key, for a person whom they can varify as the owner. If the vehilce is
titled to anybody other than a single named owner, you may have a problem
getting a key cut in any event
mike hunt

Michael, Michael, Michael
I admire your strength of conviction, but as usual you are as full of shit
as a Christmas turkey. Life in your parallel universe must be a wonderful
thing. "But most of us don't live anywhere near perfect ..."

aarcuda69062

2006-06-04 23:40:04 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
Nor do you live in THIS world apparently, what color is the sky in YOUR
world? My knowledge of the question ask is based on my years as Group Sales
Manager for one of the largest mega-deal groups on the east cost.

So, you'd know then right off the top of your head what the exact
torque specifications are for the rocker arm bolts on a GM 3400
engine in a 2002 Montana mini-van is, right?

IOWs, why would a sales manager know jack shit about cutting keys
when that is the lot boys job?

Shep

2006-06-04 23:51:50 UTC

I believe he is saying the vin does not directly reveal key info, the vin
leads to a data bank where the info is available to specified dealer
personel that have verified owner ship of that vin/ vehicle. This is the was
it was for me as a GM and Toyota SM till 98.

So, you'd know then right off the top of your head what the exact
torque specifications are for the rocker arm bolts on a GM 3400
engine in a 2002 Montana mini-van is, right?
IOWs, why would a sales manager know jack shit about cutting keys
when that is the lot boys job?

aarcuda69062

2006-06-05 00:16:35 UTC

Post by Shep
I believe he is saying the vin does not directly reveal key info,

Then he has a severe reading comprehension problem since no one
claimed that it was.

Post by Shep
the vin leads to a data bank where the info is available to specified dealer
personel that have verified owner ship of that vin/ vehicle. This is the was
it was for me as a GM and Toyota SM till 98.

Same as what we had available in a public utility fleet.

shiden_kai

2006-06-05 03:37:31 UTC

Post by Shep
I believe he is saying the vin does not directly reveal key info, the
vin leads to a data bank where the info is available to specified dealer
personel that have verified owner ship of that vin/ vehicle. This is
the was it was for me as a GM and Toyota SM till 98.

It doesn't matter what "he" says. The fact is that Randy in
parts can go out to my son's car, which I happened to park
in a spot on the employee's parking lot which "Randy in
parts" thinks is "his parking spot" and he can read the VIN
thru the window, he can cut keys for the car, and then he
can punt my son's car out of the spot that he believes belongs
to him. Of course, he won't do this, but he's threatened in
the past few days.

You guys are hilarious. This stuff is common knowledge. Of
course the VIN is connected to the key code. It always has
been. Whether it's directly connected or indirectly connected
thru a database makes no difference. If someone gives me
a Canadian VIN, I can get a key cut that will physically match
the key that comes from that car, with that VIN.

But guys like Mike live in their own little world , believing whatever
they want to. Unfortunately, they spread their uninformed bullshit
everywhere they manage to type on usenet, and confuse the hell
out of the poor sap who's trying to get a straight answer.

Ian

JRL

2006-06-05 14:12:30 UTC

Dateline did a show on this very subject. They got keys made (with
hidden cameras running) with stolen VIN numbers. Parts guy never asks
for ID or proof of ownership. Go figure.

It doesn't matter what "he" says. The fact is that Randy in
parts can go out to my son's car, which I happened to park
in a spot on the employee's parking lot which "Randy in
parts" thinks is "his parking spot" and he can read the VIN
thru the window, he can cut keys for the car, and then he
can punt my son's car out of the spot that he believes belongs
to him. Of course, he won't do this, but he's threatened in
the past few days.
You guys are hilarious. This stuff is common knowledge. Of
course the VIN is connected to the key code. It always has
been. Whether it's directly connected or indirectly connected
thru a database makes no difference. If someone gives me
a Canadian VIN, I can get a key cut that will physically match
the key that comes from that car, with that VIN.
But guys like Mike live in their own little world , believing whatever
they want to. Unfortunately, they spread their uninformed bullshit
everywhere they manage to type on usenet, and confuse the hell
out of the poor sap who's trying to get a straight answer.
Ian

Sharon K. Cooke

2006-06-05 14:36:34 UTC

Post by JRL
Dateline did a show on this very subject. They got keys made (with
hidden cameras running) with stolen VIN numbers. Parts guy never asks
for ID or proof of ownership. Go figure.

<snip>

Dateline also did a show that proved how "dangerous" the sidesaddle fuel
tanks were on a Chevy pickup. The problem with the "proof" was that the
subject "dangerous truck" exploded about 1/2 second BEFORE the collision
with another vehicle.

Mike Hunter

2006-06-05 14:38:07 UTC

Dateline did a show where they set GM trucks on fire a while back, as well.
LOL

Post by JRL
Dateline did a show on this very subject. They got keys made (with
hidden cameras running) with stolen VIN numbers. Parts guy never asks
for ID or proof of ownership. Go figure.

SgtSilicon

2006-06-07 02:10:14 UTC

Post by JRL
Dateline did a show on this very subject. They got keys made (with
hidden cameras running) with stolen VIN numbers. Parts guy never asks
for ID or proof of ownership. Go figure.

Where was that?

Mike Hunter

2006-06-05 14:28:37 UTC

That is a far different situation, then what the original questioner asked.
I'm sure 'Randy' could go down the street and bring back some heron as well.
The fact remains one can not go to a dealership with a VIN from somebody
else's car and walk out and steal the car, no matter what you believe.

mike hunt

SgtSilicon

2006-06-07 02:12:56 UTC

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 10:28:37 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Post by Mike Hunter
That is a far different situation, then what the original questioner asked.
I'm sure 'Randy' could go down the street and bring back some heron as well.
The fact remains one can not go to a dealership with a VIN from somebody
else's car and walk out and steal the car, no matter what you believe.

But what if instead of making Randy pay money for the drugs, they get
him to pay in service to them. Keymaking service. I guess then you
could steal a $40K car for a bit of blow. Sounds like a hell of an
investment.

s***@gmail.com

2018-01-08 15:09:43 UTC

what if some hackers got the program which programs the key when you have the vin # ?

is this possible to make the key if you have the VIN # ? is there any relation between Vin and car key?

personally, i don't believe you can do such thing with the Vin number otherwise car companies will never put the VIN number on your dashboard and make it obvious to everyone.

regards

Steve W.

2018-01-09 01:55:32 UTC

Post by s***@gmail.com

Post by Mike Hunter
That is a far different situation, then what the original
questioner asked. I'm sure 'Randy' could go down the street and
bring back some heron as well. The fact remains one can not go to a
dealership with a VIN from somebody else's car and walk out and
steal the car, no matter what you believe.
mike hunt

Post by Shep
I believe he is saying the vin does not directly reveal key
info, the vin leads to a data bank where the info is available
to specified dealer personel that have verified owner ship of
that vin/ vehicle. This is the was it was for me as a GM and
Toyota SM till 98.

what if some hackers got the program which programs the key when you have the vin # ?
is this possible to make the key if you have the VIN # ? is there any
relation between Vin and car key?
personally, i don't believe you can do such thing with the Vin number
otherwise car companies will never put the VIN number on your
dashboard and make it obvious to everyone.
regards

There is no "program". You need to have the VIN and the correct dealer
information and you order the key which gets shipped to the dealer.

Average Joe on the street doesn't have the correct info, and even if he
did the new keys get shipped to the dealer.

As for "Randy in parts", Yes he could use the VIN and try to get the
keycode to cut a key. BUT to get the keycode he has to be a credentialed
locksmith and provide that information.

--
Steve W.

SgtSilicon

2006-06-07 02:09:44 UTC

Post by shiden_kai
But guys like Mike live in their own little world , believing whatever
they want to. Unfortunately, they spread their uninformed bullshit
everywhere they manage to type on usenet, and confuse the hell
out of the poor sap who's trying to get a straight answer.
Ian

Don't worry Ian, you have credibility around here. Anyone who's spent
much time in here knows that, and also knows about Mike's "facts." I
suppose newcomers could be vulnerable but...

jcr

2006-06-09 00:35:00 UTC

It doesn't matter what "he" says. The fact is that Randy in
parts can go out to my son's car, which I happened to park
in a spot on the employee's parking lot which "Randy in
parts" thinks is "his parking spot" and he can read the VIN
thru the window, he can cut keys for the car, and then he
can punt my son's car out of the spot that he believes belongs
to him. Of course, he won't do this, but he's threatened in
the past few days.
You guys are hilarious. This stuff is common knowledge. Of
course the VIN is connected to the key code. It always has
been. Whether it's directly connected or indirectly connected
thru a database makes no difference. If someone gives me
a Canadian VIN, I can get a key cut that will physically match
the key that comes from that car, with that VIN.
But guys like Mike live in their own little world , believing whatever
they want to. Unfortunately, they spread their uninformed bullshit
everywhere they manage to type on usenet, and confuse the hell
out of the poor sap who's trying to get a straight answer.
Ian

He doesn't confuse me. I've had a dealer cut a key for one of my cars
with no other knowledge beyond the VIN#. He can say what he wants.

Larry from N.J.

2006-06-09 11:51:19 UTC

Hi Guys and Girls
Been watching this "Crazy" thread for days.

Lets all agree that Dishonest people working in dealerships DO have the
ability to cut these Keys!!
VINS do provide the info. It's truly up to people who make these keys to
check out that the rightfull person who owns the vehicle is the one who they
are making the key for!!

Larry from NJ

William H. Bowen

2006-06-09 13:37:03 UTC

Post by Larry from N.J.
Hi Guys and Girls
Been watching this "Crazy" thread for days.
Lets all agree that Dishonest people working in dealerships DO have the
ability to cut these Keys!!
VINS do provide the info. It's truly up to people who make these keys to
check out that the rightfull person who owns the vehicle is the one who they
are making the key for!!
Larry from NJ

Larry,

Well said - and what you said is the main thrust of the GM P&P
Manual pontification on this issue. Also, GM makes a strong point
about having one trusted employee be the "point person" for such key
requests.

Regards,
Bill Bowen
Sacramento, CA

Mike Hunter

2006-06-09 13:40:39 UTC

Precisely what some of us have been saying, one can not get a key cut that
will start somebody else vehicle by simply knowing the VIN. ;)

mike hunt
.

SgtSilicon

2006-06-09 23:04:00 UTC

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 09:40:39 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Post by Mike Hunter
Precisely what some of us have been saying, one can not get a key cut that
will start somebody else vehicle by simply knowing the VIN. ;)
mike hunt
.

It means they potentially CAN do so you dunce.

shiden_kai

2006-06-10 00:52:00 UTC

Post by Mike Hunter
Precisely what some of us have been saying, one can not get a key
cut that will start somebody else vehicle by simply knowing the VIN. ;)

Yaaaawn......

Ian

w***@yahoo.com

2015-09-30 18:02:50 UTC

For what it's worth, I currently have, sitting on my property, a vehicle that is registered to NOBODY as it is a salvage-titled theft recovery that I have in fact gotten the VIN specific key for, due to the original being lost in the theft. To answer the ORIGINAL query - thus avoiding all of the ignorant semantics - one can, yes, acquire a key by knowing only the VIN. I have it setting on my property now as proof. No person is registered on this vehicle, the title is 'open', however, due to my physical posession of it and it's documentation I was able to get a replacement VIN-Matched key for it. If you are concerned about your own vehicle, you can put tape over the last 6-8 numbers of you VIN tag as a precaution without overly upsetting law enforcement. I deal with this often enough and just hope that this helps to answer the original question.

SgtSilicon

2006-06-09 23:03:07 UTC

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 07:51:19 -0400, "Larry from N.J."

That's what some of us have been saying over and over. Mike Hunter
can't handle the truth though.

Mike Hunter

2006-06-05 14:16:27 UTC

Sort of a logical conclusion, when one takes the time to think it through,
isn't it Shep? ;)

mike hunt

Post by Shep
I believe he is saying the vin does not directly reveal key info, the vin
leads to a data bank where the info is available to specified dealer
personel that have verified owner ship of that vin/ vehicle. This is the
was it was for me as a GM and Toyota SM till 98.

So, you'd know then right off the top of your head what the exact
torque specifications are for the rocker arm bolts on a GM 3400
engine in a 2002 Montana mini-van is, right?
IOWs, why would a sales manager know jack shit about cutting keys
when that is the lot boys job?

SgtSilicon

2006-06-07 02:07:02 UTC

OMFG, look. The whole original point questions was basically, if
someone learns your VIN, could that enable them to get a key that will
let them steal your car.

The actual, truthful answer to that is this:

There is the potential that such could happen given the right
circumstances. Circumstances such as security standards adhered to
(or the lack of doing so), or "inside" people. In the real world,
security practices can often be lax and also in the real world,
trusted employees can aid thrives. So yeah, covering your VIN could
reduce your risk of being a victim of theft.

Is knowing a VIN a GUARANTEE of easily getting working keys made for a
vehicle you don't own? Nooooo, it isn't. But Mike (are you
listening), that wan't the question.

Post by Shep
I believe he is saying the vin does not directly reveal key info, the vin
leads to a data bank where the info is available to specified dealer
personel that have verified owner ship of that vin/ vehicle. This is the was
it was for me as a GM and Toyota SM till 98.

So, you'd know then right off the top of your head what the exact
torque specifications are for the rocker arm bolts on a GM 3400
engine in a 2002 Montana mini-van is, right?
IOWs, why would a sales manager know jack shit about cutting keys
when that is the lot boys job?

Mike Hunter

2006-06-05 14:13:39 UTC

What I do know is there is nothing in the VIN that will get anybody, but the
registered owner off the vehicle, a key cut at a dealership. What I do
know is there is, it the selling dealer does not record the key code from
the tab on the keys when the car arrives at the dealership there will be no
record of the key code to connect the VIN to the key code. The original
question was. 'Can anybody read the VIN and go to a dealer and acquire a
key.' that is not going to happen not matter what you believe.

mike hunt

So, you'd know then right off the top of your head what the exact
torque specifications are for the rocker arm bolts on a GM 3400
engine in a 2002 Montana mini-van is, right?
IOWs, why would a sales manager know jack shit about cutting keys
when that is the lot boys job?

William H. Bowen

2006-06-08 23:14:49 UTC

Mike,

You are dead wrong about this. Since the mid '80 for sure, GM has in
its database the key codes for all cars tied to the VIN of the car,
along with the numbers of various subassemblies such as transmissions
and such.

The one circumstance where you would not be able to get key codes
for a GM car from GM is if the locks where changed AFTER the car was
built and the new locks where not coded the same as the originals.

Regards,
Bill Bowen
Sacramento, CA

Post by Mike Hunter
What I do know is there is nothing in the VIN that will get anybody, but the
registered owner off the vehicle, a key cut at a dealership. What I do
know is there is, it the selling dealer does not record the key code from
the tab on the keys when the car arrives at the dealership there will be no
record of the key code to connect the VIN to the key code. The original
question was. 'Can anybody read the VIN and go to a dealer and acquire a
key.' that is not going to happen not matter what you believe.
mike hunt

So, you'd know then right off the top of your head what the exact
torque specifications are for the rocker arm bolts on a GM 3400
engine in a 2002 Montana mini-van is, right?
IOWs, why would a sales manager know jack shit about cutting keys
when that is the lot boys job?

Nate Nagel

2006-06-10 02:16:00 UTC

Ah, that explains why you always radiate that aura of "full of shit."

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

SgtSilicon

2006-06-07 01:45:07 UTC

On Sun, 4 Jun 2006 11:47:10 -0400, "Mike Hunter"

Post by Mike Hunter
There is not ralationship to the VIN and the key code excect a dealer can
'sometimes' obtain the key code by knowing the VIN, in orded to cut a key,
for a person whom they can varify as the owner. If the vehilce is titled to

Here again Mike, you talk out both sides of your ass. If there truly
were NO RELATIONSHIP between VIN and key code, dealers would NEVER
(not even sometimes) be able to obtain a key code by knowing the VIN.
Obviously one can get you the other. It's just a matter of how many
security measures may (or may not) be employed while doing so.

shiden_kai

2006-06-07 02:20:10 UTC

Post by SgtSilicon
Obviously one can get you the other. It's just a matter of how many
security measures may (or may not) be employed while doing so.

Here in Canada, the procedure is fairly simple. You go to an online
site called GMACCESS, type in the VIN number and you get all
sorts of info on the vehicle. RPO codes, warranty repair history,
key code information...etc. The security measure lies with the
person who either gets a call from somebody wanting a key code
or is dealing with a live customer who wants another key cut. That's
the only real security measure.

ian

SgtSilicon

2006-06-07 02:32:58 UTC

Post by SgtSilicon
Obviously one can get you the other. It's just a matter of how many
security measures may (or may not) be employed while doing so.

Thanks Ian. And that should be a wake up call to people that covering
their VIN might not be such a bad idea.

shiden_kai

2006-06-08 00:23:29 UTC

Post by SgtSilicon
Thanks Ian. And that should be a wake up call to people that covering
their VIN might not be such a bad idea.

I should change that a bit. "We" can go to an online site called GMACCESS.
The general public can't get there.

Ian

Magnetic Water

2006-06-06 23:30:14 UTC

Can't make a key copy BUT they can apply your VIN
to a ALREADY STOLEN car. Happened to me in FL
4 yrs ago. Crooks stole a 99 Caddy (in 2002) in Alabama
and someone copied my VIN and re-painted the car
and put on a fake VIN plate. Had my car impounded
for 2 days as possible stolen while the local PD checked
things out. (Identity Theft for Cars. Now you know why I keep
a piece of black electrical tape over my VIN plate.

m***@hotmail.com

2016-07-05 00:14:08 UTC

Post by Jimmy
Can someone copy your VIN number off your dashboard and
then go to a dealer and have a key made from the number.... and
then go back and steal your car?

- The key code is cross-referenced to the VIN. A reputable dealer will ask for a photo ID, and the title, before looking up the code and cutting the key but a disreputable person with access to the dealer's computer can look up the code and cut the key.

w***@gmail.com

2016-07-07 14:36:47 UTC

Dealership requires proof of ownership.

Ed Pawlowski

2016-07-08 10:08:47 UTC

Post by w***@gmail.com
Dealership requires proof of ownership.

Yes, as they should.
My boss went to Europe and took his key. His wife used the car and
locked the keys inside. No one would use a slim jim as there was a lot
that could go wrong. It took some doing for the dealer to give the
information to a local locksmith that knows who we are.

r***@gmail.com

2017-08-12 22:25:17 UTC

Lost only key 1989 izusu trooper need one

Ed Pawlowski

2017-08-12 23:20:57 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com
Lost only key 1989 izusu trooper need one

Dealer can get one. Locksmith may be able to help but you may need some
proof you own the vehicle.

Lius Vegas

2017-09-22 03:14:19 UTC

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p***@gmail.com

2018-01-22 06:43:16 UTC

Yes you they can, but they require you show proof of ownership of the vehicle

1***@gmail.com

2018-03-04 22:12:10 UTC

Keys CAN be cut by a VIN #- our dealership does it with the # and proof of ownership - bring your title along with you and VERIFY IT IS you - and you can have a key cut for your GM product - know your facts before you post things you do not know about

Ed Pawlowski

2018-03-12 19:36:08 UTC

Post by 1***@gmail.com
Keys CAN be cut by a VIN #- our dealership does it with the # and proof of ownership - bring your title along with you and VERIFY IT IS you - and you can have a key cut for your GM product - know your facts before you post things you do not know about

I was able to do it with a reputable locksmith. Called the dealer 50
miles away and he gave the information to a locksmith that knows me.
It was not even my car. It belonged to the owner where I worked. His
wife took the car while he had the other keys with him in Austria.
Wife called me for help. Fortunately, the locksmith knows both of us
since he as done a lot of work for the company and I had the proper
info for the dealer.

c***@gmail.com

2018-10-18 12:08:53 UTC

Yes you can get a key with the vin. I recover stolen vehicle for the sheriffs office and they almost always have a key that was cut using the vin and an online program to get the key code. You dont even have to go to the dealer or show proof of ownership. Just get the vin, run it with the program, which will give you the key code, order a blank online, and go to a locksmith and boom you can get any car. Doesnt matter if it is a chipped key or not. You can reset the chip in about 30 seconds. When people come to pick up their vehicle we give them the key that was with it and they always says "Thats not my key. I have all of my keys". So yes the whole chipped key/key fob is a false sense of safety. Car manufacturers are that stupid. Even had people tell me "you cant steal my car it has a special key" lol. Well here is you special key that was use to steal you car. You have an extra now.

Steve W.

2018-10-18 18:20:53 UTC

Post by c***@gmail.com
Yes you can get a key with the vin. I recover stolen vehicle for the
sheriffs office and they almost always have a key that was cut using
the vin and an online program to get the key code. You dont even have
to go to the dealer or show proof of ownership. Just get the vin, run
it with the program, which will give you the key code, order a blank
online, and go to a locksmith and boom you can get any car. Doesnt
matter if it is a chipped key or not. You can reset the chip in about
30 seconds. When people come to pick up their vehicle we give them
the key that was with it and they always says "Thats not my key. I
have all of my keys". So yes the whole chipped key/key fob is a false
sense of safety. Car manufacturers are that stupid. Even had people
tell me "you cant steal my car it has a special key" lol. Well here
is you special key that was use to steal you car. You have an extra
now.

That program is not available to the general public.
It uses the NASTF network that gives out a secure ID that identifies the
user. Being they are a sheriffs department they likely have a couple
members or sub it out to a locksmith.

https://www.nastf.org/

--
Steve W.

k***@gmail.com

2020-02-05 03:27:53 UTC