Ferrari cheating again. (Surprise surprise surprise....)

[~misfit~]

So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an illegal
internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more electrical
energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on Thursday / Friday at
Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in contravention of the regs and
could have had their points taken away fron those three races (at the
least).

However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari supporting the
new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead against the proposed
changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for them and so they were passed.

The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's latest
youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in the F1 media.

Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix was a
harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance he'll return....

See this video for more info

(I've heard elsewhere that the way the energy was 'stolen' didn't suit
Vettels driving style which explains why Kimi had been quicker early on.
Speculation is the mystery lever was so that he could use the energy in a
more controlled manner and ultimately that's how they got busted. If they'd
left it as it was Kimi might have won the WCC but he's not Ferraris first
choice - hence the lever.)

If Vettel wins the championship I'll be spitting because it'll be down to
this back-door deal and him running an illegal car for three races. Without
the stolen energy the Ferrari wasn't anywhere near as quick in Spain - a
track that otherwise suited them.

Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.

[M2T]

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an illegal
internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more electrical
energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on Thursday / Friday at
Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in contravention of the regs and
could have had their points taken away fron those three races (at the
least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari supporting the
new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead against the proposed
changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's latest
youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix was a
harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance he'll return....
See this video for more info http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc
(I've heard elsewhere that the way the energy was 'stolen' didn't suit
Vettels driving style which explains why Kimi had been quicker early on.
Speculation is the mystery lever was so that he could use the energy in a
more controlled manner and ultimately that's how they got busted. If they'd
left it as it was Kimi might have won the WCC but he's not Ferraris first
choice - hence the lever.)
If Vettel wins the championship I'll be spitting because it'll be down to
this back-door deal and him running an illegal car for three races. Without
the stolen energy the Ferrari wasn't anywhere near as quick in Spain - a
track that otherwise suited them.
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.

The FIA bought back Whitmarsh in Jan. He's involved cost cutting as a
consultant.

Ferrari cheating and getting away with it. Move on, nothing to see here!

[larkim]

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is this energy
going to come from?

[M2T]

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is this energy
going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use. Ferrari
are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more than allowed.

https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

[larkim]

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is this energy
going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use. Ferrari
are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered? I take
your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they were putting
more joules through from the battery, they still have to get it from the
various re-cycling sources on the car which come from the fuel.

I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the energy from
the various recovery mechanisms through to power deployment from the battery
is more efficient than simply wasting the energy through heat / noise to the
environment.

My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

[News]

Post by larkim

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is this energy
going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use. Ferrari
are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered? I take
your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they were putting
more joules through from the battery, they still have to get it from the
various re-cycling sources on the car which come from the fuel.
I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the energy from
the various recovery mechanisms through to power deployment from the battery
is more efficient than simply wasting the energy through heat / noise to the
environment.
My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

Kinetic energy may be harvested, converted and stored for timely and
opportunistic re-use; need not be continuously or immediately applied.

[M2T]

Post by larkim

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is this energy
going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use. Ferrari
are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered? I take
your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they were putting
more joules through from the battery, they still have to get it from the
various re-cycling sources on the car which come from the fuel.
I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the energy from
the various recovery mechanisms through to power deployment from the battery
is more efficient than simply wasting the energy through heat / noise to the
environment.
My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

I'd expect the usual procedure is to harvest until the battery is full.
Continued harvesting would be pointless. Remember the cars have to show
a red light when they're harvesting, as it slows the car.

[~misfit~]

Post by larkim

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch
electrical energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from
the fuel via the ICE / MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is
this energy going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more
than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered? I
take your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they were
putting more joules through from the battery, they still have to get
it from the various re-cycling sources on the car which come from the
fuel.
I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the
energy from the various recovery mechanisms through to power
deployment from the battery is more efficient than simply wasting the
energy through heat / noise to the environment.
My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

They are limited to using 4 megajoules of 'recovered' electrical energy per
lap (IIRC). It's strongly rumoured that Ferrari have been exceeding that
limit for the first three races of this season using tricky hidden
electronics.

I think that the FIA are keeping teams to a limit so that the cars will stay
largely ICE-powered. If there were no limit then the ICE could become
increasingly a feed-through for an ever-bigger turbine with the MGU-H
pushing power straight to the MGU-K - essentially a hybrid turbine /
electric system with an ICE tacked on the front end. This is the logical
progression in the F1 environment if the system weren't capped at a set
amount of electrical energy deployment.

With such a hybrid system as much or more of the motive power could go
through the electrical system as the mechanical system. It would make sense
to basically keep the ICE as close as possible to peak efficiency revs and
have the throttle vary the power from the MGU-H to the MGU-K using the ES as
a short-term buffer. A sort-of turbine-electrical CVT...

At least that's my take.

[Edmund]

Post by ~misfit~

Post by larkim

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch
electrical energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from
the fuel via the ICE / MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is
this energy going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more
than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered? I
take your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they were
putting more joules through from the battery, they still have to get
it from the various re-cycling sources on the car which come from the
fuel.
I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the
energy from the various recovery mechanisms through to power
deployment from the battery is more efficient than simply wasting the
energy through heat / noise to the environment.
My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

They are limited to using 4 megajoules of 'recovered' electrical energy per
lap (IIRC). It's strongly rumoured that Ferrari have been exceeding that
limit for the first three races of this season using tricky hidden
electronics.
I think that the FIA are keeping teams to a limit so that the cars will stay
largely ICE-powered. If there were no limit then the ICE could become
increasingly a feed-through for an ever-bigger turbine with the MGU-H
pushing power straight to the MGU-K - essentially a hybrid turbine /
electric system with an ICE tacked on the front end. This is the logical
progression in the F1 environment if the system weren't capped at a set
amount of electrical energy deployment.
With such a hybrid system as much or more of the motive power could go
through the electrical system as the mechanical system. It would make sense
to basically keep the ICE as close as possible to peak efficiency revs and
have the throttle vary the power from the MGU-H to the MGU-K using the ES as
a short-term buffer. A sort-of turbine-electrical CVT...
At least that's my take.

I don't know what those rule makers think or if they think at all.
What I do know is that they effectively ruin the whole idea
of racing and the development of clever efficient idea's.

No worry, they can always install Bernies oil sprinklers later on
if the obligated wrong tyres and the obligated parachutes are not
enough to overcome the overtake limitations they caused with their
silly regulations.

Edmund

[build]

Post by ~misfit~

Post by larkim

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch
electrical energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from
the fuel via the ICE / MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is
this energy going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more
than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered? I
take your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they were
putting more joules through from the battery, they still have to get
it from the various re-cycling sources on the car which come from the
fuel.
I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the
energy from the various recovery mechanisms through to power
deployment from the battery is more efficient than simply wasting the
energy through heat / noise to the environment.
My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

They are limited to using 4 megajoules of 'recovered' electrical energy per
lap (IIRC). It's strongly rumoured that Ferrari have been exceeding that
limit for the first three races of this season using tricky hidden
electronics.
I think that the FIA are keeping teams to a limit so that the cars will stay
largely ICE-powered. If there were no limit then the ICE could become
increasingly a feed-through for an ever-bigger turbine with the MGU-H
pushing power straight to the MGU-K - essentially a hybrid turbine /
electric system with an ICE tacked on the front end. This is the logical
progression in the F1 environment if the system weren't capped at a set
amount of electrical energy deployment.
With such a hybrid system as much or more of the motive power could go
through the electrical system as the mechanical system. It would make sense
to basically keep the ICE as close as possible to peak efficiency revs and
have the throttle vary the power from the MGU-H to the MGU-K using the ES as
a short-term buffer. A sort-of turbine-electrical CVT...
At least that's my take.
--
Shaun.

There is no limit on the MGU-H. There is only a limit on the ES.

[~misfit~]

Post by build

Post by ~misfit~

Post by larkim

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch
electrical energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes
from the fuel via the ICE / MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is
this energy going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more
than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered? I
take your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they were
putting more joules through from the battery, they still have to get
it from the various re-cycling sources on the car which come from
the fuel.
I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the
energy from the various recovery mechanisms through to power
deployment from the battery is more efficient than simply wasting
the energy through heat / noise to the environment.
My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

They are limited to using 4 megajoules of 'recovered' electrical
energy per lap (IIRC). It's strongly rumoured that Ferrari have been
exceeding that limit for the first three races of this season using
tricky hidden electronics.
I think that the FIA are keeping teams to a limit so that the cars
will stay largely ICE-powered. If there were no limit then the ICE
could become increasingly a feed-through for an ever-bigger turbine
with the MGU-H pushing power straight to the MGU-K - essentially a
hybrid turbine / electric system with an ICE tacked on the front
end. This is the logical progression in the F1 environment if the
system weren't capped at a set amount of electrical energy
deployment.
With such a hybrid system as much or more of the motive power could
go through the electrical system as the mechanical system. It would
make sense to basically keep the ICE as close as possible to peak
efficiency revs and have the throttle vary the power from the MGU-H
to the MGU-K using the ES as a short-term buffer. A sort-of
turbine-electrical CVT...
At least that's my take.

There is no limit on the MGU-H. There is only a limit on the ES.

There's no limit on the MGU-H

Yep, thanks. I looked into it after sending this post. I don't like writing
"IIRC" as I did above when the information is readily available. However I
wanted to send the post before I got distracted.... Shit happens.

[build]

Post by ~misfit~

Post by build

Post by ~misfit~

Post by larkim

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch
electrical energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes
from the fuel via the ICE / MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is
this energy going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more
than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered? I
take your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they were
putting more joules through from the battery, they still have to get
it from the various re-cycling sources on the car which come from
the fuel.
I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the
energy from the various recovery mechanisms through to power
deployment from the battery is more efficient than simply wasting
the energy through heat / noise to the environment.
My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

They are limited to using 4 megajoules of 'recovered' electrical
energy per lap (IIRC). It's strongly rumoured that Ferrari have been
exceeding that limit for the first three races of this season using
tricky hidden electronics.
I think that the FIA are keeping teams to a limit so that the cars
will stay largely ICE-powered. If there were no limit then the ICE
could become increasingly a feed-through for an ever-bigger turbine
with the MGU-H pushing power straight to the MGU-K - essentially a
hybrid turbine / electric system with an ICE tacked on the front
end. This is the logical progression in the F1 environment if the
system weren't capped at a set amount of electrical energy
deployment.
With such a hybrid system as much or more of the motive power could
go through the electrical system as the mechanical system. It would
make sense to basically keep the ICE as close as possible to peak
efficiency revs and have the throttle vary the power from the MGU-H
to the MGU-K using the ES as a short-term buffer. A sort-of
turbine-electrical CVT...
At least that's my take.

There is no limit on the MGU-H. There is only a limit on the ES.

There's no limit on the MGU-H
Yep, thanks. I looked into it after sending this post. I don't like writing
"IIRC" as I did above when the information is readily available. However I
wanted to send the post before I got distracted.... Shit happens.
--
Shaun.

So why hasn't what you said would happen, happened?

[~misfit~]

Post by build

Post by ~misfit~

Post by build

Post by ~misfit~

Post by larkim

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch
electrical energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes
from the fuel via the ICE / MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is
this energy going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp
more than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered?
I take your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they
were putting more joules through from the battery, they still
have to get it from the various re-cycling sources on the car
which come from the fuel.
I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the
energy from the various recovery mechanisms through to power
deployment from the battery is more efficient than simply wasting
the energy through heat / noise to the environment.
My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

They are limited to using 4 megajoules of 'recovered' electrical
energy per lap (IIRC). It's strongly rumoured that Ferrari have
been exceeding that limit for the first three races of this season
using tricky hidden electronics.
I think that the FIA are keeping teams to a limit so that the cars
will stay largely ICE-powered. If there were no limit then the ICE
could become increasingly a feed-through for an ever-bigger turbine
with the MGU-H pushing power straight to the MGU-K - essentially a
hybrid turbine / electric system with an ICE tacked on the front
end. This is the logical progression in the F1 environment if the
system weren't capped at a set amount of electrical energy
deployment.
With such a hybrid system as much or more of the motive power could
go through the electrical system as the mechanical system. It would
make sense to basically keep the ICE as close as possible to peak
efficiency revs and have the throttle vary the power from the MGU-H
to the MGU-K using the ES as a short-term buffer. A sort-of
turbine-electrical CVT...
At least that's my take.

There is no limit on the MGU-H. There is only a limit on the ES.

There's no limit on the MGU-H
Yep, thanks. I looked into it after sending this post. I don't like
writing "IIRC" as I did above when the information is readily
available. However I wanted to send the post before I got
distracted.... Shit happens. --
Shaun.

So why hasn't what you said would happen, happened?

Has time ended yet?

Probably because of other regulations stopping it. Also you do know what
speculation is yeah? Words and phrases like "I think" and "could become".

beers....

[~misfit~]

Post by ~misfit~

Post by build

Post by ~misfit~

Post by build

Post by ~misfit~

Post by larkim

Post by M2T

Post by larkim

Post by ~misfit~
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch
electrical energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes
from the fuel via the ICE / MGUs.
--

Beyond a fully charged battery on the start line, where else is
this energy going to come from?

All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp
more than allowed.
https://www.grandprix.com/news/rivals-could-protest-ferrari-battery.html

Is electrical energy delivery more efficient than ICE delivered?
I take your point about the "additional" energy, but even if they
were putting more joules through from the battery, they still
have to get it from the various re-cycling sources on the car
which come from the fuel.
I presume that's the point though - the cycle of harvesting the
energy from the various recovery mechanisms through to power
deployment from the battery is more efficient than simply wasting
the energy through heat / noise to the environment.
My technical knowledge is practically zero you must understand!

They are limited to using 4 megajoules of 'recovered' electrical
energy per lap (IIRC). It's strongly rumoured that Ferrari have
been exceeding that limit for the first three races of this season
using tricky hidden electronics.
I think that the FIA are keeping teams to a limit so that the cars
will stay largely ICE-powered. If there were no limit then the ICE
could become increasingly a feed-through for an ever-bigger
turbine with the MGU-H pushing power straight to the MGU-K -
essentially a hybrid turbine / electric system with an ICE tacked
on the front end. This is the logical progression in the F1
environment if the system weren't capped at a set amount of
electrical energy deployment.
With such a hybrid system as much or more of the motive power
could go through the electrical system as the mechanical system.
It would make sense to basically keep the ICE as close as
possible to peak efficiency revs and have the throttle vary the
power from the MGU-H to the MGU-K using the ES as a short-term
buffer. A sort-of turbine-electrical CVT...
At least that's my take.

There is no limit on the MGU-H. There is only a limit on the ES.

There's no limit on the MGU-H
Yep, thanks. I looked into it after sending this post. I don't like
writing "IIRC" as I did above when the information is readily
available. However I wanted to send the post before I got
distracted.... Shit happens. --
Shaun.

So why hasn't what you said would happen, happened?

Has time ended yet?

Also perhaps Liberty has forseen a similar future to the one I outlined
above, hence their proposed removal of the MGU-H. There's no point in a
manufacturer going in the above direction while the H is under scrutiny.

Another reason to keep the ICE rather than go full turbine is the F1
regulation that disallow use of the MGU-K from a standing start (until
100km/h has been reached). People other than me have seen what might happen
if things aren't regulated.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Post by ~misfit~
Probably because of other regulations stopping it. Also you do know
what speculation is yeah? Words and phrases like "I think" and "could
become".
beers....

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by ~misfit~
People other than me have seen what might happen
if things aren't regulated.

People pirating F1 tv coverage?

[b***@topmail.co.nz]

Post by M2T
All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use. Ferrari
are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more than allowed.

Wouldn't sucking an extra 20 HP out of the battery shorten its life?
How many batteries are they allowed per season?

[~misfit~]

Post by b***@topmail.co.nz

Post by M2T
All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more
than allowed.

Wouldn't sucking an extra 20 HP out of the battery shorten its life?
How many batteries are they allowed per season?

Not necessarily. Three, they call then the 'ES' for Energy Store.

[keefy]

Post by ~misfit~

Post by b***@topmail.co.nz

Post by M2T
All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more
than allowed.

Wouldn't sucking an extra 20 HP out of the battery shorten its life?
How many batteries are they allowed per season?

Not necessarily. Three, they call then the 'ES' for Energy Store.

I was under the impression they are allowed 3 each of ICE, turbo and
MGU-H and 2 each of ES and Control Electronics.

[~misfit~]

Post by keefy

Post by ~misfit~

Post by b***@topmail.co.nz

Post by M2T
All F1 batteries hold more power than cars are allowed to use.
Ferrari are bypassing a sensor and pushing through up to 20hp more
than allowed.

Wouldn't sucking an extra 20 HP out of the battery shorten its life?
How many batteries are they allowed per season?

Not necessarily. Three, they call then the 'ES' for Energy Store.

I was under the impression they are allowed 3 each of ICE, turbo and
MGU-H and 2 each of ES and Control Electronics.

Actually you could be right. Probably are in fact, I remember reading
something like that. Thanks for the correction.

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by ~misfit~
Actually you could be right. Probably are in fact

Actually you could be a faggot. Probably are in fact a faggot.

[Alan Baker]

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an illegal
internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more electrical
energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on Thursday / Friday at
Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in contravention of the regs and
could have had their points taken away fron those three races (at the
least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari supporting the
new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead against the proposed
changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's latest
youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix was a
harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance he'll return....
See this video for more info http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc

"there was talk"

"that suggests"

"and I must stress they are only rumours at this stage".

Post by ~misfit~
(I've heard elsewhere that the way the energy was 'stolen' didn't suit
Vettels driving style which explains why Kimi had been quicker early on.
Speculation is the mystery lever was so that he could use the energy in a
more controlled manner and ultimately that's how they got busted. If they'd
left it as it was Kimi might have won the WCC but he's not Ferraris first
choice - hence the lever.)
If Vettel wins the championship I'll be spitting because it'll be down to
this back-door deal and him running an illegal car for three races. Without
the stolen energy the Ferrari wasn't anywhere near as quick in Spain - a
track that otherwise suited them.
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.

[Sir Tim]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an illegal
internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more electrical
energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on Thursday / Friday at
Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in contravention of the regs and
could have had their points taken away fron those three races (at the
least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari supporting the
new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead against the proposed
changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's latest
youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix was a
harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance he'll return....
See this video for more info http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc

"there was talk"
"that suggests"
"and I must stress they are only rumours at this stage".

Classic weasel words of course, but an intriguing bit of gossip
nevertheless.

[~misfit~]

Post by Sir Tim

Post by Alan Baker

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an
illegal internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more
electrical energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on
Thursday / Friday at Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in
contravention of the regs and could have had their points taken
away fron those three races (at the least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari
supporting the new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead
against the proposed changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for
them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's
latest youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in
the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix
was a harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance
he'll return....
See this video for more info
http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc

"there was talk"
"that suggests"
"and I must stress they are only rumours at this stage".

The guy works in pit lane and spends a bit of time in the various garages.
The last thing he wants to do is make unfounded accusations and enemies.

Post by Sir Tim
Classic weasel words of course, but an intriguing bit of gossip
nevertheless.

Where there's smoke there's fire....

[Alan Baker]

Post by ~misfit~

Post by Sir Tim

Post by Alan Baker

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an
illegal internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more
electrical energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on
Thursday / Friday at Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in
contravention of the regs and could have had their points taken
away fron those three races (at the least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari
supporting the new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead
against the proposed changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for
them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's
latest youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in
the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix
was a harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance
he'll return....
See this video for more info
http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc

"there was talk"
"that suggests"
"and I must stress they are only rumours at this stage".

The guy works in pit lane and spends a bit of time in the various garages.
The last thing he wants to do is make unfounded accusations and enemies.

Sorry, but it's still a far cry from "Ferrari cheating again".

Post by ~misfit~

Post by Sir Tim
Classic weasel words of course, but an intriguing bit of gossip
nevertheless.

Where there's smoke there's fire....

Not always. And this is only a few wisps of smoke.

[News]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by ~misfit~

Post by Sir Tim

Post by Alan Baker

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an
illegal internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more
electrical energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on
Thursday / Friday at Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in
contravention of the regs and could have had their points taken
away fron those three races (at the least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari
supporting the new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead
against the proposed changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for
them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's
latest youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in
the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix
was a harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance
he'll return....
See this video for more info
http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc

"there was talk"
"that suggests"
"and I must stress they are only rumours at this stage".

The guy works in pit lane and spends a bit of time in the various garages.
The last thing he wants to do is make unfounded accusations and enemies.

Sorry, but it's still a far cry from "Ferrari cheating again".

Post by ~misfit~

Post by Sir Tim
Classic weasel words of course, but an intriguing bit of gossip
nevertheless.

Where there's smoke there's fire....

Not always. And this is only a few wisps of smoke.

Meanwhile, the Mercs are still getting away with it...

[Alan Baker]

Post by News

Post by Alan Baker

Post by ~misfit~

Post by Sir Tim

Post by Alan Baker

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an
illegal internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more
electrical energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on
Thursday / Friday at Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in
contravention of the regs and could have had their points taken
away fron those three races (at the least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari
supporting the new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead
against the proposed changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for
them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's
latest youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in
the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix
was a harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance
he'll return....
See this video for more info
http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc

"there was talk"
"that suggests"
"and I must stress they are only rumours at this stage".

The guy works in pit lane and spends a bit of time in the various garages.
The last thing he wants to do is make unfounded accusations and enemies.

Sorry, but it's still a far cry from "Ferrari cheating again".

Post by ~misfit~

Post by Sir Tim
Classic weasel words of course, but an intriguing bit of gossip
nevertheless.

Where there's smoke there's fire....

Not always. And this is only a few wisps of smoke.

Meanwhile, the Mercs are still getting away with it...

I don't pretend to having magical insider knowledge.

Are all teams trying to find loopholes in the rules? Yes: all the time.

Will some of those attempts be found to be illegal? Yup.

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by Alan Baker
I don't pretend to having magical insider knowledge.

blow me

[geoff]

Post by t***@gmail.com

Post by Alan Baker
I don't pretend to having magical insider knowledge.

blow me

Um, thanks but no.

geoff

[keithr0]

Post by ~misfit~
Where there's smoke there's fire....

You've obviously never been camping :)

[geoff]

Post by keithr0

Post by ~misfit~
Where there's smoke there's fire....

You've obviously never been camping :)

Where there's smoke there's smoke.

geoff

[Bigbird]

Post by keithr0

Post by ~misfit~
Where there's smoke there's fire....

You've obviously never been camping :)

I once went to The Rocky Horror Picture Show in a basque and
suspenders... does that count?

I was SSSSSSMOKIN!

[geoff]

Post by Bigbird

Post by keithr0

Post by ~misfit~
Where there's smoke there's fire....

You've obviously never been camping :)

I once went to The Rocky Horror Picture Show in a basque and
suspenders... does that count?
I was SSSSSSMOKIN!

I once went to a barbeque where the host told me it was a RHS themed
function. So I did a reasonable Frankenfurter. But it turned out it was
only me that he had told about the theme.

Texarsehole would have got far more that semi.

geoff

[Martin Harran]

On Thu, 17 May 2018 05:54:38 -0000 (UTC), "Bigbird"

Post by Bigbird

Post by keithr0

Post by ~misfit~
Where there's smoke there's fire....

You've obviously never been camping :)

I once went to The Rocky Horror Picture Show in a basque and
suspenders... does that count?
I was SSSSSSMOKIN!

For God's sake man, don't post stuff like that, you will give
Texasgate an uncontrollable orgasm.

[~misfit~]

Post by Bigbird

Post by keithr0

Post by ~misfit~
Where there's smoke there's fire....

You've obviously never been camping :)

I once went to The Rocky Horror Picture Show in a basque and
suspenders... does that count?
I was SSSSSSMOKIN!

So you were *really* 'camping'!

[Bigbird]

Where there's smoke there's...

<cough> Mirrors! <cough>

[~misfit~]

Post by Bigbird

Where there's smoke there's...

<cough> Mirrors! <cough>

LOL!

[M2T]

Post by ~misfit~
Where there's smoke

...there's insufficient lubrication

[geoff]

Post by M2T

Post by ~misfit~
Where there's smoke

...there's insufficient lubrication

Isn't that little puff of smoke out of Texarsegate's arse from burning
lubricating oil ?

geoff

[M2T]

Post by geoff

Post by M2T

Post by ~misfit~
Where there's smoke

...there's insufficient lubrication

Isn't that little puff of smoke out of Texarsegate's arse from burning
lubricating oil ?

The little poof is Texarsegate.

[D Munz]

Post by Sir Tim

Post by Alan Baker

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an illegal
internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more electrical
energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on Thursday / Friday at
Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in contravention of the regs and
could have had their points taken away fron those three races (at the
least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari supporting the
new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead against the proposed
changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's latest
youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix was a
harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance he'll return....
See this video for more info http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc

"there was talk"
"that suggests"
"and I must stress they are only rumours at this stage".

Classic weasel words of course, but an intriguing bit of gossip
nevertheless.
--
Sir Tim

Ok, there is more and more to this now with the FIA attaching some kind of "device" to the Ferrari to monitor "something." Maybe I missed it, but it wasn't clear if they are just monitoring the red cars, or the entire grid.

But more importantly, all the talk was around Seb's extra control on the wheel. Does that mean the Kimi didn't have the same capability? If so, that make his recent performance more impressive.

On the other hand, maybe there is a different type of control for Kimi that produces the same effect.

All very interesting but probably not relevant to Monaco. We might really see any effects of this on the higher speed tracks.

FWIW
DLM

[~misfit~]

Post by D Munz

Post by Sir Tim

Post by Alan Baker

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using
an illegal internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use
more electrical energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found
out on Thursday / Friday at Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari
were in contravention of the regs and could have had their points
taken away fron those three races (at the least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead
of penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari
supporting the new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead
against the proposed changes but by Saturday afternoon were all
for them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's
latest youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in
the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix
was a harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance
he'll return....
See this video for more info
http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc

"there was talk"
"that suggests"
"and I must stress they are only rumours at this stage".

Classic weasel words of course, but an intriguing bit of gossip
nevertheless.
--
Sir Tim

Ok, there is more and more to this now with the FIA attaching some
kind of "device" to the Ferrari to monitor "something."

They aren't sharing information mucg on this issue as they know there are
parties who will be very unhappy when they let Ferrari get away with it.

Post by D Munz
Maybe I
missed it, but it wasn't clear if they are just monitoring the red
cars, or the entire grid.

Just the red cars - not even the other Ferrari-powered teams, the 'mod' they
were running was kept just to themselves (can't have non-sworn technicians
knowing about it).

Post by D Munz
But more importantly, all the talk was around Seb's extra control on
the wheel. Does that mean the Kimi didn't have the same capability?
If so, that make his recent performance more impressive.
On the other hand, maybe there is a different type of control for
Kimi that produces the same effect.

Hard to know. I hope that it comes out though. IMO the FIA need to be
transparent.

Post by D Munz
All very interesting but probably not relevant to Monaco. We might
really see any effects of this on the higher speed tracks.

True dat.

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an illegal
internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more electrical
energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on Thursday / Friday at
Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in contravention of the regs and
could have had their points taken away fron those three races (at the
least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari supporting the
new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead against the proposed
changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's latest
youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix was a
harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance he'll return....
See this video for more info http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc
(I've heard elsewhere that the way the energy was 'stolen' didn't suit
Vettels driving style which explains why Kimi had been quicker early on.
Speculation is the mystery lever was so that he could use the energy in a
more controlled manner and ultimately that's how they got busted. If they'd
left it as it was Kimi might have won the WCC but he's not Ferraris first
choice - hence the lever.)
If Vettel wins the championship I'll be spitting because it'll be down to
this back-door deal and him running an illegal car for three races. Without
the stolen energy the Ferrari wasn't anywhere near as quick in Spain - a
track that otherwise suited them.
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.

You have a problem with cheating.
But you pirating F1 tv coverage is ethical.
Fuck off, loser, hypocrite.

[RzR]

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an illegal
internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more electrical
energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on Thursday / Friday at
Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in contravention of the regs and
could have had their points taken away fron those three races (at the
least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari supporting the
new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead against the proposed
changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's latest
youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix was a
harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance he'll return....
See this video for more info http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc
(I've heard elsewhere that the way the energy was 'stolen' didn't suit
Vettels driving style which explains why Kimi had been quicker early on.
Speculation is the mystery lever was so that he could use the energy in a
more controlled manner and ultimately that's how they got busted. If they'd
left it as it was Kimi might have won the WCC but he's not Ferraris first
choice - hence the lever.)
If Vettel wins the championship I'll be spitting because it'll be down to
this back-door deal and him running an illegal car for three races. Without
the stolen energy the Ferrari wasn't anywhere near as quick in Spain - a
track that otherwise suited them.
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.

of course they are...they were all of the sudden destroying
mercedes...now things are back to where they are suppose to
be...hamilton catching schumachers record, but without team orders

[larkim]

Post by RzR

Post by ~misfit~
So the gos is that for the first 3 races Ferrari have been using an illegal
internal ES bypass system that has allowed them to use more electrical
energy than the regulations allow. The FIA found out on Thursday / Friday at
Barcellona. This meant that Ferrari were in contravention of the regs and
could have had their points taken away fron those three races (at the
least).
However FOM / FIA needed their 2019 regs to go through so instead of
penalising Ferrari they let them off in return for Ferrari supporting the
new regs. Early in the weekend Ferrari were dead against the proposed
changes but by Saturday afternoon were all for them and so they were passed.
The only thing I have that's remotely a cite is Marc Preistley's latest
youtube video. There are other whispers here and there in the F1 media.
Also there's speculation that Whitmarsh's being at the Grand Prix was a
harbinger of changes at McLaren - and that there's a chance he'll return....
See this video for more info http://youtu.be/T5OxyB11XAc
(I've heard elsewhere that the way the energy was 'stolen' didn't suit
Vettels driving style which explains why Kimi had been quicker early on.
Speculation is the mystery lever was so that he could use the energy in a
more controlled manner and ultimately that's how they got busted. If they'd
left it as it was Kimi might have won the WCC but he's not Ferraris first
choice - hence the lever.)
If Vettel wins the championship I'll be spitting because it'll be down to
this back-door deal and him running an illegal car for three races. Without
the stolen energy the Ferrari wasn't anywhere near as quick in Spain - a
track that otherwise suited them.
Personally I don't think there should be any limit on ho wmuch electrical
energy is used in a lap as long as all of it comes from the fuel via the ICE
/ MGUs.

of course they are...they were all of the sudden destroying
mercedes...now things are back to where they are suppose to
be...hamilton catching schumachers record, but without team orders

One track does not make a season.

[FB]

"~misfit~" <***@gmail.com> wrote news:pdh4am$8r7$***@dont-email.me...
(snip)

...Ferrari have been using an illegal internal ES bypass system that has
allowed them to use more electrical energy than the regulations allow...

but still not burning extra oil, innit?

FB

[DumbedDownUSA]

Post by FB

...Ferrari have been using an illegal internal ES bypass system
that has allowed them to use more electrical energy than the
regulations allow...

but still not burning extra oil, innit?

Well no, one would hope the regs prevent any repeat.