very very very vague hoa rules

[radioguy]

The names and call letters have been changed to protect the innocent.

Once upon a time, there was a ham radio operator who moved into a
homeowners association which had the very very very vague rule "NO ham
radio transmissions allowed on homeowners association property".

Originally, the ham thought this was a very very very specific rule
which allowed him to transmit from ham radios off of homeowner
association property while he was physically off of homeowners
association property.

So he moved into the homeowners association and unlike certain other
hams which hide antennas on homeowners association property in
violation of the homeowners rules and the contract they signed, this
ham actually obeyed the homeowners association rule and transmitted
ham radio only when he was physically off of homeowners property using
radios, and repeaters, and irlp and echolink..

However, he soon found out it was a very very very vage rule when the
big bad homeowners association foreclosed his house on him for
violating the rule and claimed that it was a very very very specific
rule which prohibits him from making ham radio transmissions even whie
he is off of homeowners property and using ham radios off of
homeowners property while he is physically off homeowners association
property.

It started because while he was making a ham radio transmission off of
homeowner property while he was physically off of homeowners property,
another homeowner in the association heard the ham radio transmission
on his own scanner (no the hams scanner since he didn't have one other
than the one he had off of homeowner association property, such as at
his parents' house) and complained to the homeowners association about
it.

Then the big bad homeowners association stated he broke the rule and
fined him. The ham refused to pay the fine, stating that he never
ever broke the rule and only made ham radio transmissions when he was
physically off of the property and never ever even had a ham radio on
homeowners asociation property at all.

Then the ham quoted the rule to the homeowners association as proof he
never ever broke the rule.

Then the big bad homeowners association replied back with that it did
not matter if he was on homeowners association property or not, that
even though he was off of homeowners association property when he ade
the ham radio transmissions, since the ham radio transmission could be
heard on homeowners property , that it "was indeed a ham radio
transmission on homeowners association property and in violation of
the homeowners association rule of "NO ham radio transmissions allowed
on homeowners association property""

and the fine stands and foreclosure stands if he eefused to pay the
fine.

The ham refused to pay the fine, and wanted to take it to court.
However, he could not afford to take it to court.

The big bad homeowners association decided to take it to court to
collect the fine from him he refused to pay.

The big bad homeowners association then payed off all the lawyers and
judge including the ham's own court-appointed lawyer.

So the judge wrongly ruled in the homeowners association and against
the ham, since he and the lawyers were getting kickbacks from the
homeowners association.


The judgee wrongly ruled that the correct interpretation of "NO ham
radio transmissions allowed on homeowners association property" was a
very very very specific rule which meant that the ham was indeed in
violation of the rule and contract he signed even though he was
physically off of homeowners association property when transmitting
because since the tranmission could be heard on homeowners association
property, and therefore the ham radio transmission was made on
homeowners association property in violation of the homeowners rule
and contract th ham signed, even though the transmissions were made
from off of homeowners association property.

Plus had to pay court costs which he could not afford for losing the
case.

Angered and miffed by this, the ham wanted to appeal the case, but
could not afford the $1,500 application fee the appeals court required
just to file an appeal (not counting all the court costs afterwards),
the ham decied to get revenge against the homeowners association.

As revenge, the ham gathered some of his ham radio buddies, such as
NO44TXU, NO4DWS, NO4STU, NO4DFG, NO4SWQ, etcetera and had them all go
onto the homeowners asociation property and start transmitting on
their ham radios while physically on homeowners association property..

This angered and miffed the homeowners association who tried to gget
them to stop transmitting by saying it is a violation of the
homeowners association rules.

The hams replied that they are not bound by the homeowners association
rules since they never ever signed a contract with the homeowners
association.

Then the big bad homeowners association tried to claim they were
trespassing.

Then the hams replied they were not trespassing since they were gusts
of the ham who got fined and lived on homeowners association property
and were just visiting.

Then the big bad homeowners association tried claiming since they were
guests of the ham who got fined and lives in the hoa building and are
visiting him, that they too are bound by the homeowners rules even
though they never signed any contract with the homeowners association
at all and are in violation of the rules and will be sued if they
refuse to comply with the rules to stp transmitting ham radio on
homeowners association property.

Then the hams replied that even if the ham who got fined was in
violation of the homeowners association rules, that the rest of them
are not in violation because unlike the ham who got fined and
foreclosed on, all their call letters start with the letters NO and
the homeowners association rules plainly state "NO ham radio
transmissions allowed on homeowners association property"

[richard]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Bill Graham]

Post by richard

Post by radioguy
The names and call letters have been changed to protect the innocent.
Once upon a time, there was a ham radio operator who moved into a
homeowners association which had the very very very vague rule "NO
ham radio transmissions allowed on homeowners association property".

Where do you come up with this shit?
You don't say in which state this happened.
Furthermore, no HOA anywhere has the authority to enforce it's rules
while off it's defined property or on public roads.
Can you at least identify the county court this happened in?

My sister used to live in "Sun City West". A Dell Webb community in Phoenix
AZ, and she said that a neighbor couldn't persue his Ham
Radio Hobby, because the neighbors complained about the antenna array on his
roof.

[NotMe]

Post by radioguy
The names and call letters have been changed to protect the innocent.
Once upon a time, there was a ham radio operator who moved into a
homeowners association which had the very very very vague rule "NO ham
radio transmissions allowed on homeowners association property".
Originally, the ham thought this was a very very very specific rule
which allowed him to transmit from ham radios off of homeowner
association property while he was physically off of homeowners
association property.
So he moved into the homeowners association and unlike certain other
hams which hide antennas on homeowners association property in
violation of the homeowners rules and the contract they signed, this
ham actually obeyed the homeowners association rule and transmitted
ham radio only when he was physically off of homeowners property using
radios, and repeaters, and irlp and echolink..
However, he soon found out it was a very very very vage rule when the
big bad homeowners association foreclosed his house on him for
violating the rule and claimed that it was a very very very specific
rule which prohibits him from making ham radio transmissions even whie
he is off of homeowners property and using ham radios off of
homeowners property while he is physically off homeowners association
property.
It started because while he was making a ham radio transmission off of
homeowner property while he was physically off of homeowners property,
another homeowner in the association heard the ham radio transmission
on his own scanner (no the hams scanner since he didn't have one other
than the one he had off of homeowner association property, such as at
his parents' house) and complained to the homeowners association about
it.
Then the big bad homeowners association stated he broke the rule and
fined him. The ham refused to pay the fine, stating that he never
ever broke the rule and only made ham radio transmissions when he was
physically off of the property and never ever even had a ham radio on
homeowners asociation property at all.
Then the ham quoted the rule to the homeowners association as proof he
never ever broke the rule.
Then the big bad homeowners association replied back with that it did
not matter if he was on homeowners association property or not, that
even though he was off of homeowners association property when he ade
the ham radio transmissions, since the ham radio transmission could be
heard on homeowners property , that it "was indeed a ham radio
transmission on homeowners association property and in violation of
the homeowners association rule of "NO ham radio transmissions allowed
on homeowners association property""
and the fine stands and foreclosure stands if he eefused to pay the
fine.
The ham refused to pay the fine, and wanted to take it to court.
However, he could not afford to take it to court.
The big bad homeowners association decided to take it to court to
collect the fine from him he refused to pay.
The big bad homeowners association then payed off all the lawyers and
judge including the ham's own court-appointed lawyer.
So the judge wrongly ruled in the homeowners association and against
the ham, since he and the lawyers were getting kickbacks from the
homeowners association.
The judgee wrongly ruled that the correct interpretation of "NO ham
radio transmissions allowed on homeowners association property" was a
very very very specific rule which meant that the ham was indeed in
violation of the rule and contract he signed even though he was
physically off of homeowners association property when transmitting
because since the tranmission could be heard on homeowners association
property, and therefore the ham radio transmission was made on
homeowners association property in violation of the homeowners rule
and contract th ham signed, even though the transmissions were made
from off of homeowners association property.
Plus had to pay court costs which he could not afford for losing the
case.
Angered and miffed by this, the ham wanted to appeal the case, but
could not afford the $1,500 application fee the appeals court required
just to file an appeal (not counting all the court costs afterwards),
the ham decied to get revenge against the homeowners association.
As revenge, the ham gathered some of his ham radio buddies, such as
NO44TXU, NO4DWS, NO4STU, NO4DFG, NO4SWQ, etcetera and had them all go
onto the homeowners asociation property and start transmitting on
their ham radios while physically on homeowners association property..
This angered and miffed the homeowners association who tried to gget
them to stop transmitting by saying it is a violation of the
homeowners association rules.
The hams replied that they are not bound by the homeowners association
rules since they never ever signed a contract with the homeowners
association.
Then the big bad homeowners association tried to claim they were
trespassing.
Then the hams replied they were not trespassing since they were gusts
of the ham who got fined and lived on homeowners association property
and were just visiting.
Then the big bad homeowners association tried claiming since they were
guests of the ham who got fined and lives in the hoa building and are
visiting him, that they too are bound by the homeowners rules even
though they never signed any contract with the homeowners association
at all and are in violation of the rules and will be sued if they
refuse to comply with the rules to stp transmitting ham radio on
homeowners association property.
Then the hams replied that even if the ham who got fined was in
violation of the homeowners association rules, that the rest of them
are not in violation because unlike the ham who got fined and
foreclosed on, all their call letters start with the letters NO and
the homeowners association rules plainly state "NO ham radio
transmissions allowed on homeowners association property"

Check into the FCC rules (assuming this is in the USA) as while it's been a
long time if memory serves the FCC preempts HOA rules.

[Bill Graham]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[richard]

Post by Bill Graham

Post by NotMe
Check into the FCC rules (assuming this is in the USA) as while it's
been a long time if memory serves the FCC preempts HOA rules.

I don't understand. Was the transmitter located in the homeowners house, so
he could transmit by telephone? IOW, did he telephone his own house and talk
over his transmitter from some remote location? If so, then he certainly
broke the associations rules, since obviously it was the transmitter power
they were bitching about and not the physical location of the DJ. Its kind
of like you calling a radio station and talking over the air via your
telephone. You could call from anywhere, but the stations power will still
be there to amplify and transmit your voice with several kilowatts to an
audience.

radiofruitcake claimed the HOA foreclosed for rules violations.
that ain't gonna happen as the HOA has no legal intererst in the home.

[NotMe]

Post by richard

Post by Bill Graham

Post by NotMe
Check into the FCC rules (assuming this is in the USA) as while it's
been a long time if memory serves the FCC preempts HOA rules.

I don't understand. Was the transmitter located in the homeowners house, so
he could transmit by telephone? IOW, did he telephone his own house and talk
over his transmitter from some remote location? If so, then he certainly
broke the associations rules, since obviously it was the transmitter power
they were bitching about and not the physical location of the DJ. Its kind
of like you calling a radio station and talking over the air via your
telephone. You could call from anywhere, but the stations power will still
be there to amplify and transmit your voice with several kilowatts to an
audience.

radiofruitcake claimed the HOA foreclosed for rules violations.
that ain't gonna happen as the HOA has no legal intererst in the home.

Depends on the state. Texas has had examples of all sorts of game on the
part of the HOA.

[richard]

Post by NotMe

Post by richard

Post by Bill Graham

Post by NotMe
Check into the FCC rules (assuming this is in the USA) as while it's
been a long time if memory serves the FCC preempts HOA rules.

I don't understand. Was the transmitter located in the homeowners house, so
he could transmit by telephone? IOW, did he telephone his own house and talk
over his transmitter from some remote location? If so, then he certainly
broke the associations rules, since obviously it was the transmitter power
they were bitching about and not the physical location of the DJ. Its kind
of like you calling a radio station and talking over the air via your
telephone. You could call from anywhere, but the stations power will still
be there to amplify and transmit your voice with several kilowatts to an
audience.

radiofruitcake claimed the HOA foreclosed for rules violations.
that ain't gonna happen as the HOA has no legal intererst in the home.

Depends on the state. Texas has had examples of all sorts of game on the
part of the HOA.

They might be able to begin the procedings. But as soon as that happens,
the mortage holder takes over.
Who do you make your mortage payments to? The holder or the HOA?
The holder has priority over the HOA.

[NotMe]

Post by richard

Post by NotMe

Post by richard

Post by Bill Graham

Post by NotMe
Check into the FCC rules (assuming this is in the USA) as while it's
been a long time if memory serves the FCC preempts HOA rules.

I don't understand. Was the transmitter located in the homeowners
house,
so
he could transmit by telephone? IOW, did he telephone his own house and talk
over his transmitter from some remote location? If so, then he certainly
broke the associations rules, since obviously it was the transmitter power
they were bitching about and not the physical location of the DJ. Its kind
of like you calling a radio station and talking over the air via your
telephone. You could call from anywhere, but the stations power will still
be there to amplify and transmit your voice with several kilowatts to an
audience.

radiofruitcake claimed the HOA foreclosed for rules violations.
that ain't gonna happen as the HOA has no legal intererst in the home.

Depends on the state. Texas has had examples of all sorts of game on the
part of the HOA.

They might be able to begin the procedings. But as soon as that happens,
the mortage holder takes over.
Who do you make your mortage payments to? The holder or the HOA?
The holder has priority over the HOA.

HOA in Texas have SOLD homes at sheriff sales.

[Scott in Baltimore]

Oh, no! He's off his meds again!

Someone call Bellevue...

[radio rambo]

Post by Scott in Baltimore
Oh, no! He's off his meds again!
Someone call Bellevue...

I Punce -

http://ipunce2.blogspot.com/

[McGyver]

Post by radioguy
The names and call letters have been changed to protect the innocent.
Once upon a time, there was a ham radio operator who moved into a
homeowners association which had the very very very vague rule "NO ham
radio transmissions allowed on homeowners association property".

That rule is not vague.

Post by radioguy
Originally, the ham thought this was a very very very specific rule
which allowed him to transmit from ham radios off of homeowner
association property while he was physically off of homeowners
association property.

You were right, provided that your words: "transmit from ham radios off
of homeowners association property" mean: "transmit from ham radios
WHICH ARE off of homeowners association property."

Post by radioguy
So he moved into the homeowners association and unlike certain other
hams which hide antennas on homeowners association property in
violation of the homeowners rules and the contract they signed, this
ham actually obeyed the homeowners association rule and transmitted
ham radio only when he was physically off of homeowners property using
radios, and repeaters, and irlp and echolink..

I assume you mean that those radios and other stuff were all off of HOA
property.

Post by radioguy
However, he soon found out it was a very very very vage rule when the
big bad homeowners association foreclosed his house on him for
violating the rule and claimed that it was a very very very specific
rule which prohibits him from making ham radio transmissions even whie
he is off of homeowners property and using ham radios off of
homeowners property while he is physically off homeowners association
property.

I hereby request that all state legislators in your state pass a law
making it a misdemeanor for you to use the word "very" ever again.

Post by radioguy
It started because while he was making a ham radio transmission off of
homeowner property while he was physically off of homeowners property,
another homeowner in the association heard the ham radio transmission
on his own scanner (no the hams scanner since he didn't have one other
than the one he had off of homeowner association property, such as at
his parents' house) and complained to the homeowners association about
it.
Then the big bad homeowners association stated he broke the rule and
fined him. The ham refused to pay the fine, stating that he never
ever broke the rule and only made ham radio transmissions when he was
physically off of the property and never ever even had a ham radio on
homeowners asociation property at all.

If someone like me wrote the HOA agreement, it would have said (in more
careful legal language) that all fines must be paid without setoff and
regardless of any defense or proceeding to determine the validity of the
assessment, and that the fine will be refunded if the member wins a
protest with the HOA Protest Committee or wins a judicial determination
that the assessment was invalid. If that clause is in the HOA
agreement, you violated that rule regardless of whether you violated the
radio rule.

Post by radioguy
Then the ham quoted the rule to the homeowners association as proof he
never ever broke the rule.
Then the big bad homeowners association replied back with that it did
not matter if he was on homeowners association property or not, that
even though he was off of homeowners association property when he ade
the ham radio transmissions, since the ham radio transmission could be
heard on homeowners property , that it "was indeed a ham radio
transmission on homeowners association property and in violation of
the homeowners association rule of "NO ham radio transmissions allowed
on homeowners association property""

If the HOA really said that, that was dumb. But that doesn't mean much.
Either the non-vague rule was violated by a transmission from a
transmitter on HOA property or it was not, and the subsequent dumbness
of the HOA adds nothing and subtracts nothing.

Post by radioguy
and the fine stands and foreclosure stands if he eefused to pay the
fine.
The ham refused to pay the fine, and wanted to take it to court.
However, he could not afford to take it to court.
The big bad homeowners association decided to take it to court to
collect the fine from him he refused to pay.
The big bad homeowners association then payed off all the lawyers and
judge including the ham's own court-appointed lawyer.

Horse pucky.

Post by radioguy
So the judge wrongly ruled in the homeowners association and against
the ham, since he and the lawyers were getting kickbacks from the
homeowners association.
The judgee wrongly ruled that the correct interpretation of "NO ham
radio transmissions allowed on homeowners association property" was a
very very very specific rule which meant that the ham was indeed in
violation of the rule and contract he signed even though he was
physically off of homeowners association property when transmitting
because since the tranmission could be heard on homeowners association
property, and therefore the ham radio transmission was made on
homeowners association property in violation of the homeowners rule
and contract th ham signed, even though the transmissions were made
from off of homeowners association property.

Prove it. I'll believe it when you show me the order which says that or
a transcript in which the judge said it. Until then, I will believe
that the court decided that your transmitter was on HOA property when
the transmission occurred. That decision would be correct if the
transmitter was on HOA property at the time, regardless of where you
were standing. And of course, that decision was wrong if you did not
have the transmitter on HOA property at the time. An erroneous judgment
can be made - that's believable - somebody lied and the court believed
it. That's what appeals are for.

Post by radioguy
Plus had to pay court costs which he could not afford for losing the
case.
Angered and miffed by this, the ham wanted to appeal the case, but
could not afford the $1,500 application fee the appeals court required
just to file an appeal (not counting all the court costs afterwards),
the ham decied to get revenge against the homeowners association.
As revenge, the ham gathered some of his ham radio buddies, such as
NO44TXU, NO4DWS, NO4STU, NO4DFG, NO4SWQ, etcetera and had them all go
onto the homeowners asociation property and start transmitting on
their ham radios while physically on homeowners association property..

Useless, but harmless.

Post by radioguy
This angered and miffed the homeowners association who tried to gget
them to stop transmitting by saying it is a violation of the
homeowners association rules.

Just shows how dumb HOAs can be. It would have been more fun to stand
outside and watch the parade until the hams figured out they were
wasting gasoline and missing a baseball game on TV while accomplishing
nothing.

Post by radioguy
The hams replied that they are not bound by the homeowners association
rules since they never ever signed a contract with the homeowners
association.
Then the big bad homeowners association tried to claim they were
trespassing.
Then the hams replied they were not trespassing since they were gusts
of the ham who got fined and lived on homeowners association property
and were just visiting.
Then the big bad homeowners association tried claiming since they were
guests of the ham who got fined and lives in the hoa building and are
visiting him, that they too are bound by the homeowners rules even
though they never signed any contract with the homeowners association
at all and are in violation of the rules and will be sued if they
refuse to comply with the rules to stp transmitting ham radio on
homeowners association property.

[Yawn]

Post by radioguy
Then the hams replied that even if the ham who got fined was in
violation of the homeowners association rules, that the rest of them
are not in violation because unlike the ham who got fined and
foreclosed on, all their call letters start with the letters NO and
the homeowners association rules plainly state "NO ham radio
transmissions allowed on homeowners association property"

Now that's funny. And clever. And useless, of course, since there was
no trespassing and no violation of the agreement and no fine assessed
against them and no court proceeding contemplated. Just more harmless fun.

This answer must not be relied on as legal advice for the reasons posted
here: http://mcgyverdisclaimer.blogspot.com . And I am not your attorney.

McGyver