Internet for Cars & Buses?

[David Kaye]

Can someone enlighten me about how cars and buses get their internet
service? Are local ISPs involved or what exactly? Surely they're not using
4G, or are they?

If there are medium and long-range ISPs out there, can Average Joe sign up
with these?

[Thad Floryan]

Post by David Kaye
Can someone enlighten me about how cars and buses get their internet
service? Are local ISPs involved or what exactly? Surely they're not using
4G, or are they?
[...]

Googling "how does the Tesla S deathmobile get its internet connection"
reveals the following as some for-examples:

Model S Features | Tesla Motors
Designed from the ground up as an electric car, Model S provides an ...
Introducing a car so advanced it sets the new standard for premium ...
offers convenient access to the car's climate control system so that
you can preheat your ... GO FARTHER .... Stay connected with an
Internet browser for news, restaurant reviews and ...
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features

Model S Media/Phone integration | Forums | Tesla Motors
I hope the interior of the car is still being finalized and can be
made more ... (I didn't get to test drive, so maybe this is not the
concern I think it is.) ... the 17" display with its phone contacts,
media storage, internet access, etc. etc.
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/model-s-mediaphone-integration

Keep the Unlimited 3G Plan! | Forums | Tesla Motors
If they give you free 3G, they will just jack up the price of the car
to cover the free 3G. ... Apparently the Model S actually has two SIMs
-- one for Tesla's use and one for us, so Tesla ... I should get the
deal I signed up for which is free 3g. .... I've seen it work fine in
areas where there is no internet connection.
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/keep-unlimited-3g-plan

As to why I termed the Tesla S a "DeathMobile", it's due to the full-
size screen from which the driver can drive distracted while watching
movies, browsing Fecebook, posting to Usenet, and more all in 100% total
violation of California's Vehicle Code (re: TVs and other distractions
visible from the driver's seat) as you can see here from the Menlo Park/
Atherton online newspaper:

Loading Image...

Loading Image...

The full article about the Tesla S with more pictures is here:

http://www.almanacnews.com/news/show_story.php?id=9830

The distracted driver in the Almanac's pictures is this person:

http://soe.stanford.edu/research/layout.php?sunetid=beiker

Thad

[Thad Floryan]

Post by Thad Floryan

Post by David Kaye
Can someone enlighten me about how cars and buses get their internet
service? Are local ISPs involved or what exactly? Surely they're not using
4G, or are they?
[...]

Googling "how does the Tesla S deathmobile get its internet connection"
[...]

I just downloaded all the Tesla S PDF manuals and found that a recent
software update additionally enables WiFi Internet access:

http://teslaforum.dk/ow_userfiles/plugins/forum/attachment_62_52c05f70f0655_software_update_5.8.pdf

Thad

[Steve Pope]

Post by David Kaye
Can someone enlighten me about how cars and buses get their internet
service? Are local ISPs involved or what exactly? Surely they're not
using 4G, or are they?

Yes, generally they are using mobile broadband, without haveing a dedicated
channel or anything -- they are in there with all the other cellular
users. It should usually work, since cellular is designed for doppler
shifts up to the velocity of a high-speed rail vehicle.

Amtrak has stated in a press release that the WiFi on Acela trains
is backhauled on 4G. I presume the same for capital corridor. There
is some blocking and throttling (e.g. you cannot access Pandora,
Craigslist, etc.)

There is an 802 standard (802.11v, I think, for "vehicular") that
hopes to create dedicated datalinks to vehicles, possibly using
the 4.9 GHz band, which is currently underutilized.

Airliner WiFi is backhauled by satellite in some cases, but
terrestrial VHF in other cases, and I believe most of it is now VHF.

Steve

[Travis James]

Post by Steve Pope
Amtrak has stated in a press release that the WiFi on Acela trains
is backhauled on 4G. I presume the same for capital corridor. There
is some blocking and throttling (e.g. you cannot access Pandora,
Craigslist, etc.)

Why Craigslist?

[Steve Pope]

Post by Travis James

Post by Steve Pope
Amtrak has stated in a press release that the WiFi on Acela trains
is backhauled on 4G. I presume the same for capital corridor. There
is some blocking and throttling (e.g. you cannot access Pandora,
Craigslist, etc.)

Why Craigslist?

No information. Perhaps fallout from the sex trafficking problem,
which is perceived by some to be catalyzed by Craigslist, but that
is just a guess.


Steve

[David Kaye]

Post by Thad Floryan
Googling "how does the Tesla S deathmobile get its internet connection"

WHOA there, big fella. I didn't rattle your cage about the Tesla. And the
"features" section you quote doesn't say beans about how it gets its
internet connection.

My interest in internet service has nothing to do with driving and all to do
with extensive internet service beyond the range of wi-fi. Wi-fi is so
limited, 3G is slow, and 4G is expensive, but yet I see buses and trains
that boast wi-fi and realized that they had to get their service from
*somewhere*. I thought there might be something like Hughes for groundlinks
that I wasn't aware of.

[Roy]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Thad Floryan
Googling "how does the Tesla S deathmobile get its internet connection"

WHOA there, big fella. I didn't rattle your cage about the Tesla. And the
"features" section you quote doesn't say beans about how it gets its
internet connection.
My interest in internet service has nothing to do with driving and all to do
with extensive internet service beyond the range of wi-fi. Wi-fi is so
limited, 3G is slow, and 4G is expensive, but yet I see buses and trains
that boast wi-fi and realized that they had to get their service from
*somewhere*. I thought there might be something like Hughes for groundlinks
that I wasn't aware of.

Mobile things like cars and buses have one set of problems. If you are
talking a fixed location, there are different ways to provide service.
Then you have the "middle ground" like an RV which only wants to connect
when stopped for hours or days.

Which one are you looking for?

[David Kaye]

Post by Roy
Mobile things like cars and buses have one set of problems. If you are
talking a fixed location, there are different ways to provide service.
Then you have the "middle ground" like an RV which only wants to connect
when stopped for hours or days.
Which one are you looking for?

I just want to be conversant on what's available out there. For instance, I
have two customers who subscribe to Hughes because they operate in
commercial-only areas not wired for Comcast and out of range of AT&T's DSL,
and not served by Sonic, et al. Hughes is expensive and has the 23,000 mile
lag factor that prohibits some uses. When I see buses that say "free wi-fi"
and know that it's the bee's knees on new cars I figured that there must be
some kind of ISP out there that is providing service that might be useful
for my customers.

[Steve Pope]

Post by David Kaye
I just want to be conversant on what's available out there. For instance, I
have two customers who subscribe to Hughes because they operate in
commercial-only areas not wired for Comcast and out of range of AT&T's DSL,
and not served by Sonic, et al. Hughes is expensive and has the 23,000 mile
lag factor that prohibits some uses. When I see buses that say "free wi-fi"
and know that it's the bee's knees on new cars I figured that there must be
some kind of ISP out there that is providing service that might be useful
for my customers.

Really they are just using garden-variety mobile wireless hotspots.


Steve

[Roy]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Roy
Mobile things like cars and buses have one set of problems. If you are
talking a fixed location, there are different ways to provide service.
Then you have the "middle ground" like an RV which only wants to connect
when stopped for hours or days.
Which one are you looking for?

I just want to be conversant on what's available out there. For instance, I
have two customers who subscribe to Hughes because they operate in
commercial-only areas not wired for Comcast and out of range of AT&T's DSL,
and not served by Sonic, et al. Hughes is expensive and has the 23,000 mile
lag factor that prohibits some uses. When I see buses that say "free wi-fi"
and know that it's the bee's knees on new cars I figured that there must be
some kind of ISP out there that is providing service that might be useful
for my customers.

You should look for a wireless ISP. Check out

http://www.wispa.org/find-a-wisp

30Mbps and such is common in South Valley area for WISP with multiple
companies to choose from

[Steve Pope]

Post by Roy
You should look for a wireless ISP. Check out
http://www.wispa.org/find-a-wisp
30Mbps and such is common in South Valley area for WISP with multiple
companies to choose from

When I put in "Berkeley" as a location, the only hit is Razzolink,
which operates in rural areas south of San Jose. No WISP's listed
covering Berkeley, which suggests these is no market for such,
probably since mobile broadband is more competitive.


Steve

[Roy]

Post by Steve Pope

Post by Roy
You should look for a wireless ISP. Check out
http://www.wispa.org/find-a-wisp
30Mbps and such is common in South Valley area for WISP with multiple
companies to choose from

When I put in "Berkeley" as a location, the only hit is Razzolink,
which operates in rural areas south of San Jose. No WISP's listed
covering Berkeley, which suggests these is no market for such,
probably since mobile broadband is more competitive.
Steve

There are Internet deadzones where the options can be very limited.
WISPs like to cover those areas. Cities decree that their cable company
provide Internet to every residence but that leaves some commercial
areas as deadzones.

Razzolink's headquarters is in Berkeley so that explains why they show
up there.

WISPA is a good place to start but it only shows member companies. Two
WISPs I work with are not members. You may need to dig a bit. A scan
from a hilltop in Morgan Hill showed 24 different WAPs running.

The other thing that you can do is to be your own mini ISP. Gilroy had
one Internet deadzone that the only thing available was T1 lines. We
brought two T1s into one company and then put some antennas on the roof.
We had six businesses running off those T1 lines.

Radios are not that expensive and easy to install for ranges of 1-2
miles. Using router like a Mikrotik allows you to make sure each
business gets a "fair share" of the bandwidth.

[Steve Pope]

Post by Roy
Razzolink's headquarters is in Berkeley so that explains why they show
up there.

That explains it.

Post by Roy
The other thing that you can do is to be your own mini ISP. Gilroy had
one Internet deadzone that the only thing available was T1 lines. We
brought two T1s into one company and then put some antennas on the roof.
We had six businesses running off those T1 lines.
Radios are not that expensive and easy to install for ranges of 1-2
miles. Using router like a Mikrotik allows you to make sure each
business gets a "fair share" of the bandwidth.

Did you use the old 900 MHz frequency-hopper radios?

That band is getting more and more crowded.


Steve

[Roy]

Post by Steve Pope

Post by Roy
Razzolink's headquarters is in Berkeley so that explains why they show
up there.

That explains it.

Post by Roy
The other thing that you can do is to be your own mini ISP. Gilroy had
one Internet deadzone that the only thing available was T1 lines. We
brought two T1s into one company and then put some antennas on the roof.
We had six businesses running off those T1 lines.
Radios are not that expensive and easy to install for ranges of 1-2
miles. Using router like a Mikrotik allows you to make sure each
business gets a "fair share" of the bandwidth.

Did you use the old 900 MHz frequency-hopper radios?
That band is getting more and more crowded.
Steve

I have in the "old days"

Today is 5Ghz for most stuff. There is a licensed band at 3.6 Ghz that
some people use. Unfortunately, there are "complications" to getting
the license in the Bay area since the band is shared

As long as you have line of sight between the two antennas, you can go
pretty far. My furthest link right now tops out at 30Mbps on speed
tests over a 17 mile path.

[Steve Pope]

Today is 5Ghz for most stuff. [..]
As long as you have line of sight between the two antennas, you can go
pretty far. My furthest link right now tops out at 30Mbps on speed
tests over a 17 mile path.

That's fairly impressive.

In the band that starts at 5725 MHz, you can emit a watt and
potentially use transmitter antenna gains up to around 20 dB.
On paper, that will get you to such a throughput/range combination,
but it's impressive to actually achieve it.


Steve

[Roy]

Post by Steve Pope

Today is 5Ghz for most stuff. [..]
As long as you have line of sight between the two antennas, you can go
pretty far. My furthest link right now tops out at 30Mbps on speed
tests over a 17 mile path.

That's fairly impressive.
In the band that starts at 5725 MHz, you can emit a watt and
potentially use transmitter antenna gains up to around 20 dB.
On paper, that will get you to such a throughput/range combination,
but it's impressive to actually achieve it.
Steve

The band is bigger than that. The radios I use are rated for the
U-NII-2,-2e and -3 sections of the band.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-NII

You have choose a frequency to avoid licensed radios but the most
important user in those bands is the Terminal Doppler Weather Radar used
to detect thunderstorms and microcells. Interfering with a TDWR will
bring the FCC down on you very quickly. Luckily, there are no TDWRs on
the West Coast.

[Steve Pope]

Post by Roy

Post by Steve Pope
In the band that starts at 5725 MHz, you can emit a watt and
potentially use transmitter antenna gains up to around 20 dB.

The band is bigger than that. The radios I use are rated for the
U-NII-2,-2e and -3 sections of the band.

Sure, but you can only transmit as much as 1 watt in the band that
starts at 5725 MHz (5725-5825).

Steve

[Roy]

Post by Steve Pope

Post by Roy
You should look for a wireless ISP. Check out
http://www.wispa.org/find-a-wisp
30Mbps and such is common in South Valley area for WISP with multiple
companies to choose from

When I put in "Berkeley" as a location, the only hit is Razzolink,
which operates in rural areas south of San Jose. No WISP's listed
covering Berkeley, which suggests these is no market for such,
probably since mobile broadband is more competitive.
Steve

If you need coverage in Berkeley (or most of the Bay Area) check out
Etheric Networks. They are definitely not cheap but probably are better
than satellite. I have several clients on Etheric and they get the
advertised speeds and good reliability.

http://ethericnetworks.com/

[David Kaye]

Post by Roy
You should look for a wireless ISP. Check out
http://www.wispa.org/find-a-wisp
30Mbps and such is common in South Valley area for WISP with multiple
companies to choose from

Thanks. I didn't know about this classification. That would also include
Monkeybrains, I guess, too. I know that Rudy climbs all over roofs putting
in wireless links all over the Mission and Potrero neighborhoods of SF. But
those are fixed links designed to serve apartment buildings mostly.

Hmmm...I'll do some rooting around about "wisps".

Thanks.

[Bhairitu]

Post by David Kaye

Post by Thad Floryan
Googling "how does the Tesla S deathmobile get its internet connection"

WHOA there, big fella. I didn't rattle your cage about the Tesla. And the
"features" section you quote doesn't say beans about how it gets its
internet connection.
My interest in internet service has nothing to do with driving and all to do
with extensive internet service beyond the range of wi-fi. Wi-fi is so
limited, 3G is slow, and 4G is expensive, but yet I see buses and trains
that boast wi-fi and realized that they had to get their service from
*somewhere*. I thought there might be something like Hughes for groundlinks
that I wasn't aware of.

I have 5GB of 4G for $30 a month. Plenty if I want to go on a trip and
listen via 4G from phone->FM transmitter->radio. The car is too old to
have a radio with an input jack on it.

[Marcus Allen]

Post by Bhairitu
I have 5GB of 4G for $30 a month. Plenty if I want to go on a trip and
listen via 4G from phone->FM transmitter->radio. The car is too old to
have a radio with an input jack on it.

There are ways to add an input jack to nearly any car radio, if you're
interested.

[Bhairitu]

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu
I have 5GB of 4G for $30 a month. Plenty if I want to go on a trip and
listen via 4G from phone->FM transmitter->radio. The car is too old to
have a radio with an input jack on it.

There are ways to add an input jack to nearly any car radio, if you're
interested.

I don't like soldering and the $10 Coby FM transmitter works fine. ;-)

I did use one of those cassettes with an input jack but it stopped
working reliably.

[Marcus Allen]

Post by Bhairitu

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu
I have 5GB of 4G for $30 a month. Plenty if I want to go on a trip and
listen via 4G from phone->FM transmitter->radio. The car is too old to
have a radio with an input jack on it.

There are ways to add an input jack to nearly any car radio, if you're
interested.

I don't like soldering and the $10 Coby FM transmitter works fine. ;-)
I did use one of those cassettes with an input jack but it stopped
working reliably.

In my case, I have a Toyota with a factory stereo system, no CD changer, but
since nearly all Toyota factory radios since about 1998 have CD changer
inputs, I simply plugged in an adapter to that port. I can still play CDs
but now I can also play from any device that has a headphone jack.

[Bhairitu]

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu
I have 5GB of 4G for $30 a month. Plenty if I want to go on a trip and
listen via 4G from phone->FM transmitter->radio. The car is too old to
have a radio with an input jack on it.

There are ways to add an input jack to nearly any car radio, if you're
interested.

I don't like soldering and the $10 Coby FM transmitter works fine. ;-)
I did use one of those cassettes with an input jack but it stopped
working reliably.

In my case, I have a Toyota with a factory stereo system, no CD changer, but
since nearly all Toyota factory radios since about 1998 have CD changer
inputs, I simply plugged in an adapter to that port. I can still play CDs
but now I can also play from any device that has a headphone jack.

I have a 1998 Subaru Forester and the CD player doesn't have an earphone
jack. Back in the 1970s-80s I had a Subaru wagon with just AM radio so
I got a little transmitter that would tune FM to an AM channel.

[Marcus Allen]

Post by Bhairitu

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu
I have 5GB of 4G for $30 a month. Plenty if I want to go on a trip and
listen via 4G from phone->FM transmitter->radio. The car is too old to
have a radio with an input jack on it.

There are ways to add an input jack to nearly any car radio, if you're
interested.

I don't like soldering and the $10 Coby FM transmitter works fine. ;-)
I did use one of those cassettes with an input jack but it stopped
working reliably.

In my case, I have a Toyota with a factory stereo system, no CD changer, but
since nearly all Toyota factory radios since about 1998 have CD changer
inputs, I simply plugged in an adapter to that port. I can still play CDs
but now I can also play from any device that has a headphone jack.

I have a 1998 Subaru Forester and the CD player doesn't have an earphone
jack.

Ok, but I think that's irrelevant to what I was saying. After adding an Aux
input to the factory radio, I can use anything with a headphone jack as a
music source, including an Ipod, a smart phone, a tablet, a laptop, etc. I
connect a standard cable from some device's headphone jack to the new Aux
input. The factory radio thinks it's a CD changer but it works in addition
to, not instead of, the factory CD player.

Post by Bhairitu
Back in the 1970s-80s I had a Subaru wagon with just AM radio so
I got a little transmitter that would tune FM to an AM channel.

I never had any luck with FM transmitters. The range is too short.

[Bhairitu]

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu
I have 5GB of 4G for $30 a month. Plenty if I want to go on a trip and
listen via 4G from phone->FM transmitter->radio. The car is too old to
have a radio with an input jack on it.

There are ways to add an input jack to nearly any car radio, if you're
interested.

I don't like soldering and the $10 Coby FM transmitter works fine. ;-)
I did use one of those cassettes with an input jack but it stopped
working reliably.

In my case, I have a Toyota with a factory stereo system, no CD changer, but
since nearly all Toyota factory radios since about 1998 have CD changer
inputs, I simply plugged in an adapter to that port. I can still play CDs
but now I can also play from any device that has a headphone jack.

I have a 1998 Subaru Forester and the CD player doesn't have an earphone
jack.

Ok, but I think that's irrelevant to what I was saying. After adding an Aux
input to the factory radio, I can use anything with a headphone jack as a
music source, including an Ipod, a smart phone, a tablet, a laptop, etc. I
connect a standard cable from some device's headphone jack to the new Aux
input. The factory radio thinks it's a CD changer but it works in addition
to, not instead of, the factory CD player.

So you like to solder and I don't. ;-)

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu
Back in the 1970s-80s I had a Subaru wagon with just AM radio so
I got a little transmitter that would tune FM to an AM channel.

I never had any luck with FM transmitters. The range is too short.

It might not have been a transmitter but an FM receiver I wired to the
speakers (a lot easier than adding an earphone jack). I'll have to
check retro gear sites to see if I can find it.

[sms]

Post by Bhairitu
So you like to solder and I don't. ;-)

No need to solder. I.e. <http://blitzsafe.com/catalog/>. Other
manufacturers as well. The thing is that if you're doing this on an
older vehicle, with a DIN size head unit that doesn't have extra
functionality, the cost of the interface is more than half the cost of
an entire new head unit that has not just an AUX jack but other
desirable functionality, i.e. USB input, memory card reader, Bluetooth,
and HD Radio.

[Marcus Allen]

Post by Bhairitu

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by Bhairitu
I have 5GB of 4G for $30 a month. Plenty if I want to go on a trip and
listen via 4G from phone->FM transmitter->radio. The car is too old to
have a radio with an input jack on it.

There are ways to add an input jack to nearly any car radio, if you're
interested.

I don't like soldering and the $10 Coby FM transmitter works fine. ;-)
I did use one of those cassettes with an input jack but it stopped
working reliably.

In my case, I have a Toyota with a factory stereo system, no CD changer, but
since nearly all Toyota factory radios since about 1998 have CD changer
inputs, I simply plugged in an adapter to that port. I can still play CDs
but now I can also play from any device that has a headphone jack.

I have a 1998 Subaru Forester and the CD player doesn't have an earphone
jack.

Ok, but I think that's irrelevant to what I was saying. After adding an Aux
input to the factory radio, I can use anything with a headphone jack as a
music source, including an Ipod, a smart phone, a tablet, a laptop, etc. I
connect a standard cable from some device's headphone jack to the new Aux
input. The factory radio thinks it's a CD changer but it works in addition
to, not instead of, the factory CD player.

So you like to solder and I don't. ;-)

I'm not opposed to soldering when it's required, but like I've been saying,
this was a simple plug-in operation. Buy the adapter, plug it in to the rear
of the factory radio, presto, now I have an Aux jack that accepts (as input)
the output of anything with a headphone jack. They also make Bluetooth
adapters that work exactly the same way, (simple plug-in to the back of the
factory radio), but I was ok with the wired alternative.

While I'm at it, if you happen to have a factory radio that doesn't have an
unused port on the rear, (all Toyota/Lexus radios do since about 1998, I
believe), you can add a universal FM adapter to any car radio going back to
at least the 1940's. These adapters have both female and male antenna
connectors, with the male connector being on a short pigtail. You unplug the
antenna from the radio, plug it into the adapter, then plug the adapter into
the radio. Now you have the capability to accept an input from any
compatible source, wired or BT, and modulate it onto the FM band wherever
you like, in an otherwise unused spot. Since it's a wired solution, you
don't have the problems of low FM transmitter power to deal with.

[sms]

Post by Marcus Allen
I'm not opposed to soldering when it's required, but like I've been saying,
this was a simple plug-in operation. Buy the adapter, plug it in to the rear
of the factory radio, presto, now I have an Aux jack that accepts (as input)
the output of anything with a headphone jack. They also make Bluetooth
adapters that work exactly the same way, (simple plug-in to the back of the
factory radio), but I was ok with the wired alternative.

On two of the Toyotas in our fleet the "SAT" selection on the head unit
can have either a satellite receiver plugged in, or an after-market
Bluetooth unit. On one vehicle there's factory Bluetooth for only the
phone, not for audio, but it has an AUX jack.

Post by Marcus Allen
While I'm at it, if you happen to have a factory radio that doesn't have an
unused port on the rear, (all Toyota/Lexus radios do since about 1998, I
believe), you can add a universal FM adapter to any car radio going back to
at least the 1940's. These adapters have both female and male antenna
connectors, with the male connector being on a short pigtail. You unplug the
antenna from the radio, plug it into the adapter, then plug the adapter into
the radio.

This is better than an FM modulator that transmits with low power and
doesn't work well (besides requiring power from the cigarette lighter),
but on a vehicle that old you're better off just replacing the head unit
completely.

While you're not opposed to soldering it seems that a lot of people are
absolutely_terrified_ of it! To replace a defective or de-featured head
unit is actually quite easy with the connector kits that are available.
But it does require soldering the appropriate connector for your vehicle
onto the wires from the new head unit. These are now all color coded.

$3.99
<http://www.harborfreight.com/30-watt-lightweight-soldering-iron-69060-8913.html>

$2.99 <http://www.harborfreight.com/lead-free-rosin-core-solder-69378.html>

$3.49
<http://www.harborfreight.com/127-piece-heat-shrink-tubing-set-67524.html>

$14.99
<http://www.harborfreight.com/1500-watt-dual-temperature-heat-gun-572-1112-96289.html>
Not really necessary but makes it easier.

Maybe it's OCD, but I really dislike the kludges of various sorts to get
audio into a vehicle's sound system. Wires running everywhere, cigarette
lighter power cords, etc. I've seen them all, from the FM tuners in the
1960's to add FM to AM radios, to a home-built AUX-In to 8-Track adapter

They might have made
sense when head units were expensive and when it was difficult to
install them, but these days it really doesn't.

Here's a collection of kludges: <Loading Image...>. I
don't have one of those rotary speaker selector switches that let you go
between the in-dash radio and a separate under-dash head unit with its
own amplifier. Something like this:
<Loading Image...>.

Maybe an Cassette to AUX-In adapter plugged into an 8-Track to Cassette
Adapter plugged into an under-dash FM Tuner/8-Track Player connected to
an AM Radio (also see

[sms]

On 4/2/2014 5:08 PM, Marcus Allen wrote:

<snip>

Post by Marcus Allen
I never had any luck with FM transmitters. The range is too short.

Well you don't need much range, but the problem is that if you're on a
longer trip you have to keep changing the frequency because of
interference since adjacent geographic areas often alternate
frequencies. It's not something that many people are willing to put up with/

The bottom line is that on an older car the cost of upgrading the head
unit with a single DIN or double DIN replacement is so low that you
really don't want to deal with all sorts of adapters and cables and
power sources; for under $200 you can get a head unit with Bluetooth,
HD, AUX, and USB, be safer, and not deal with all that hassle. Or you
buy one of the AUX-IN adapters for a factory head unit.

[David Kaye]

Post by sms
Well you don't need much range, but the problem is that if you're on a
longer trip you have to keep changing the frequency because of
interference since adjacent geographic areas often alternate frequencies.
It's not something that many people are willing to put up with/

An average market size is about 50 miles. This means changing stations once
an hour, which is far less often than I change stations when listening to
conventional radio stations.

What's more, there should be enough capture effect from the nearby FM
transmitter to block out the local assigned one.

[Marcus Allen]

Post by David Kaye

Post by sms
Well you don't need much range, but the problem is that if you're on a
longer trip you have to keep changing the frequency because of
interference since adjacent geographic areas often alternate frequencies.
It's not something that many people are willing to put up with/

An average market size is about 50 miles. This means changing stations once
an hour, which is far less often than I change stations when listening to
conventional radio stations.
What's more, there should be enough capture effect from the nearby FM
transmitter to block out the local assigned one.

It's actually more annoying than you're letting on. It's not as simple as
changing the station on your car radio. You also have to change the
transmitter frequency on your FM device, and that can require multiple
steps. It helps to have a front-seat passenger along who can take care of
it, or else you're probably looking at pulling over. I don't know about
others, but when I'm on a long road trip, I usually only stop when the car
needs gas, which means I could be driving for several hours without access
to my music (or whatever). There are parts of the US where only a small
handful of Country stations are available, so it can be painful.

[sms]

On 4/4/2014 8:31 AM, Marcus Allen wrote:

<snip>

Post by Marcus Allen
It's actually more annoying than you're letting on. It's not as simple as
changing the station on your car radio. You also have to change the
transmitter frequency on your FM device, and that can require multiple
steps. It helps to have a front-seat passenger along who can take care of
it, or else you're probably looking at pulling over. I don't know about
others, but when I'm on a long road trip, I usually only stop when the car
needs gas, which means I could be driving for several hours without access
to my music (or whatever). There are parts of the US where only a small
handful of Country stations are available, so it can be painful.

You hit the nail right on the head! I'm sure that you, like me, tried
one (or more) of those FM modulators. I had the passenger futz with the
frequency adjustment on the modulator and the FM radio as we drove from
the Bay Area to Reno. And this was a higher end modulator with a very
wide adjustment range, not one of the cheaper ones with a choice of just
a couple of frequencies. It must have been HD Radio IBOC interference
causing the problem! Oh wait, there was no IBOC back then.

The cassette adapter worked a bit better but those can be flaky too. The
vehicle's cassette player would periodically eject the adapter.

I realized that I was going to keep that 4WD SUV for a long time since
it's not driven a lot, and that it was worth putting in a new head unit
with Bluetooth, USB, and AUX-In (the HD Radio was a pleasant bonus
though at the time I didn't know how good the HD Sub-Channel content
would become). $150 that was well spent.

A full featured head unit costs even less these days, i.e. see:
<http://www.frys.com/product/7003911> (online only). Bluetooth, USB,
HD-Radio, Pandora, iPod control, and can be hooked to steering wheel
controls. It's amazing what people will put up in terms of kludges to
avoid doing something properly.

[d***@97.usenet.us.com]

Post by sms
controls. It's amazing what people will put up in terms of kludges to
avoid doing something properly.

Not so much avoidance as ignorance.
I thought "FM" was the way to go. When the gadget didn't work, I thought
the next step would be the inline FM adapter that I had seen as part of
some installation, but I could only find it as part of a kit, maybe XM
Radio, not a standalone gadget.

I put an aftermarket headunit in a car that came with cassette, in the
days when it was a funky mounting thing and a black plastic filler, still
no Aux. "MP3" referred to the ability to play MP3 files from CD.
My Ford looks like a standard double-din, and I think the Honda is double
din, but the front is definitely not conducive to aesthetic replacement by
an aftermarket unit.

I don't know how I stumbled onto the logjamelectronics adapter, but I like
it.

[sms]

Post by d***@97.usenet.us.com

Post by sms
controls. It's amazing what people will put up in terms of kludges to
avoid doing something properly.

Not so much avoidance as ignorance.
I thought "FM" was the way to go. When the gadget didn't work, I thought
the next step would be the inline FM adapter that I had seen as part of
some installation, but I could only find it as part of a kit, maybe XM
Radio, not a standalone gadget.
I put an aftermarket headunit in a car that came with cassette, in the
days when it was a funky mounting thing and a black plastic filler, still
no Aux. "MP3" referred to the ability to play MP3 files from CD.
My Ford looks like a standard double-din, and I think the Honda is double
din, but the front is definitely not conducive to aesthetic replacement by
an aftermarket unit.
I don't know how I stumbled onto the logjamelectronics adapter, but I like
it.

They look like they know what they're doing
<http://www.logjamelectronics.com/>.

They also have a good article about why FM transmitters should be
avoided: <http://www.logjamelectronics.com/fmtransmitters.html>.

[Marcus Allen]

Post by sms
<snip>

Post by Marcus Allen
It's actually more annoying than you're letting on. It's not as simple as
changing the station on your car radio. You also have to change the
transmitter frequency on your FM device, and that can require multiple
steps. It helps to have a front-seat passenger along who can take care of
it, or else you're probably looking at pulling over. I don't know about
others, but when I'm on a long road trip, I usually only stop when the car
needs gas, which means I could be driving for several hours without access
to my music (or whatever). There are parts of the US where only a small
handful of Country stations are available, so it can be painful.

You hit the nail right on the head! I'm sure that you, like me, tried
one (or more) of those FM modulators. I had the passenger futz with the
frequency adjustment on the modulator and the FM radio as we drove from
the Bay Area to Reno. And this was a higher end modulator with a very
wide adjustment range, not one of the cheaper ones with a choice of just
a couple of frequencies. It must have been HD Radio IBOC interference
causing the problem! Oh wait, there was no IBOC back then.

I tend to start at the bottom because I'm a cheapskate at heart, but being
cheap sometimes means spending more in the long run as you search for a
solution that actually works. I remember trying an FM transmitter that only
had a few presets, and it sucked for multiple reasons. Next, I tried an FM
transmitter with a continuously variable output frequency, but the range was
too short. Most recently, maybe 2-3 years ago, I tried the FM transmitter in
a Garmin Nuvi 760. The output was still way too weak to be of use, given the
vehicles that I had at the time.

Post by sms
The cassette adapter worked a bit better but those can be flaky too. The
vehicle's cassette player would periodically eject the adapter.

I never owned a cassette adapter, but a friend had one back in the day. I
don't remember it sounding all that great, and of course it had the wire
sticking out of the 'fake' cassette housing. His deck was auto-reversing and
every so often it would mechanically click to reverse the direction, which
of course is useless with an adapter. He said the clicks didn't bother him,
which supports your theory that people will put up with stuff.

Post by sms
<http://www.frys.com/product/7003911> (online only). Bluetooth, USB,
HD-Radio, Pandora, iPod control, and can be hooked to steering wheel
controls. It's amazing what people will put up in terms of kludges to
avoid doing something properly.

That looks fairly decent, thanks. Not as gaudy as most that I've seen.

[Travis James]

Post by Marcus Allen
I tend to start at the bottom because I'm a cheapskate at heart, but being
cheap sometimes means spending more in the long run as you search for a
solution that actually works. I remember trying an FM transmitter that only
had a few presets, and it sucked for multiple reasons. Next, I tried an FM
transmitter with a continuously variable output frequency, but the range was
too short. Most recently, maybe 2-3 years ago, I tried the FM transmitter in
a Garmin Nuvi 760. The output was still way too weak to be of use, given the
vehicles that I had at the time.

I pretty much went the same route many years ago when I had an iPod
Touch 1st gen. What worked for my situation (2006 Honda CR-V) was the
iSimple which does use the FM channel 87.9. But what makes it work is
that it has a switch that defeats the antenna. The iPod adapter tucks
away neatly in the cubby on the dash when not in use though that's rare.
It has worked like a charm as I've iDeviced my way to the 4S phone. Even
my daughter's 5c works with the lightening connection by using a $10
bluetooth adapter with it, just no charging in that case.

I'm not sure it's exactly this one, but same idea:

https://www.isimplesolutions.com/iphone-ipod-integration-GateWay.aspx

It's not cheap, but I am happy with it, much better than using earbuds -
and legal ;-). I didn't want to change out the factory stereo so it was
a good trade off that I've enjoyed for about 5 years so far.

[d***@97.usenet.us.com]

Post by David Kaye
An average market size is about 50 miles. This means changing stations
once an hour, which is far less often than I change stations when
listening to conventional radio stations.

"FM Capture" is not a viable feature. I remember it from radio class, but
it only means that the signal for that moment is locked to a station. I
often toggle between the Spanish language station in Sacramento and the
English language station in Santa Rosa, both nice and clear.

I got quite used to listening to Public Radio "All Things Considered" near
the end of my long commute.
On the way down, I would have to switch stations on the radio, and the
Belkin FM gadget once, but when I hit the San Jose area, none of my
gadget's selected frequencies were available.

I thought I was clever, taking it with me on a business trip, and it didn't
work at all in the rental car.

I have since purchased adapters from Logjamelectronics.com for my Honda and
Ford. In the Ford, the head unit slides out easily if you buy the little
extractor kit, the gadget plugs in, run a cable out under the console, and
plug in the audio source (cellphone playing cached Slacker Radio), which
appears as "SAT" on the head unit.

In the Honda, radio removal was way too difficult. Not really, but I was
able to drop the glovebox, a normal way to change the "cabin air filter",
and reach over and plug the gadget into the back of the headset. The CD is
"CD", the gadget is "CD1-1", pushing the same button twice.

[Steve Pope]

Post by d***@97.usenet.us.com
"FM Capture" is not a viable feature. I remember it from radio class, but
it only means that the signal for that moment is locked to a station. I
often toggle between the Spanish language station in Sacramento and the
English language station in Santa Rosa, both nice and clear.

A low FM capture ratio is considered a feature.

A low FM capture ratio is the behavior that two received FM
transmissions on the same frequency do not require the stronger
one to be received all that much strong to be received clearly.
(As compared to the corresponding situation weth AM).

It is most evident if you turn off the AFC and turn from "stereo"
to "mono".

If your receiver is toggling between the two co-channel stations,
and they each are serially received clearly as they fade with respect to
each other, that is evidence of the capture ratio being low
(or good). The behavior is somewhat dependent on receiver design,
where the goal is to have a low capture ratio.

But mostly it's just a characteristic of FM radio in general.

Steve

[Marcus Allen]

Post by d***@97.usenet.us.com
I have since purchased adapters from Logjamelectronics.com for my Honda and
Ford. In the Ford, the head unit slides out easily if you buy the little
extractor kit, the gadget plugs in, run a cable out under the console, and
plug in the audio source (cellphone playing cached Slacker Radio), which
appears as "SAT" on the head unit.

Back when my wife had a Mustang, I made a radio extractor tool from a wire
coat hanger. I probably copied the idea from someone on youtube.

Post by d***@97.usenet.us.com
In the Honda, radio removal was way too difficult. Not really, but I was
able to drop the glovebox, a normal way to change the "cabin air filter",
and reach over and plug the gadget into the back of the headset. The CD is
"CD", the gadget is "CD1-1", pushing the same button twice.

My Toyota is similar, in that pushing the CD button toggles between the
internal CD player and the external Aux jack that I connected. There are no
visible wires anywhere because I opted to mount the Aux jack down low in the
dash panel, near the center console. I sometimes lay my smart phone on the
center console in a little area that seems to be made for such things, and I
connect a 3-foot cable from the headphone jack to the Aux jack. I can play
hours and hours of music, or I can use the phone to navigate and get the
voice directions loud and clear over the factory sound system. I'm happy
with it, and I didn't have to change out the factory head unit.

[d***@97.usenet.us.com]

Post by Marcus Allen
Back when my wife had a Mustang, I made a radio extractor tool from a wire
coat hanger. I probably copied the idea from someone on youtube.

I tried a coat hanger. I even tried filing a couple of notches in the end
of the coat hanger. It was easier to pay $2.99 at Walmart for the pair of
pre-formed thicker coat hangers.

Post by Marcus Allen
My Toyota is similar, in that pushing the CD button toggles between the
internal CD player and the external Aux jack that I connected. There are no
visible wires anywhere because I opted to mount the Aux jack down low in the

Still a wire, somewhere. Mine comes back along the console and disappears
alongside the seat. I have thought of using those nice panel knockouts for
a 120v panel outlet from a hidden inverter. The new car has one. the old
car is jealous.

Post by Marcus Allen
hours and hours of music, or I can use the phone to navigate and get the
voice directions loud and clear over the factory sound system. I'm happy

I use the phone/aux for navigation while playing music. It is a little
startling to hear the nice lady start chatting in the middle of a song.
Volume levels aren't right though. She needs to be louder.

If someone calls, the music player pauses for a second or two and I can
answer the call, and use the "built in hands free".

[Marcus Allen]

Post by d***@97.usenet.us.com

Post by Marcus Allen
Back when my wife had a Mustang, I made a radio extractor tool from a wire
coat hanger. I probably copied the idea from someone on youtube.

I tried a coat hanger. I even tried filing a couple of notches in the end
of the coat hanger. It was easier to pay $2.99 at Walmart for the pair of
pre-formed thicker coat hangers.

Post by Marcus Allen
My Toyota is similar, in that pushing the CD button toggles between the
internal CD player and the external Aux jack that I connected. There are no
visible wires anywhere because I opted to mount the Aux jack down low in the

Still a wire, somewhere. Mine comes back along the console and disappears
alongside the seat. I have thought of using those nice panel knockouts for
a 120v panel outlet from a hidden inverter. The new car has one. the old
car is jealous.

True, there's still a wire somewhere, but it's neatly and safely tucked
under the dash, along with the dozens of other wires put there at the
factory. I've tried, but I can't feel bad about that additional hidden wire.

Post by d***@97.usenet.us.com

Post by Marcus Allen
hours and hours of music, or I can use the phone to navigate and get the
voice directions loud and clear over the factory sound system. I'm happy

I use the phone/aux for navigation while playing music. It is a little
startling to hear the nice lady start chatting in the middle of a song.
Volume levels aren't right though. She needs to be louder.
If someone calls, the music player pauses for a second or two and I can
answer the call, and use the "built in hands free".

I do the same. I shouldn't have characterized it as 'music or navigation',
above. It's certainly easy and efficient to do both.

[Marcus Allen]

Post by sms
<snip>

Post by Marcus Allen
I never had any luck with FM transmitters. The range is too short.

Well you don't need much range,

That depends on the vehicle, I suppose. One of my recently sold vehicles had
the radio antenna at the rear of the car, so an FM transmitter had zero hope
of working in that car. My current vehicle has the antenna in the front,
embedded at the top of the windshield, and the FM transmitter works if I
hold it up near the rear view mirror, but it fades out if I put the device
down on the center console. In both cases, the FM transmitter solution is
completely unacceptable.

Post by sms
but the problem is that if you're on a
longer trip you have to keep changing the frequency because of
interference since adjacent geographic areas often alternate
frequencies. It's not something that many people are willing to put up with/

Right, that's a second problem, which doesn't replace the first problem. Of
course, this one only applies if you're traveling.

Post by sms
The bottom line is that on an older car the cost of upgrading the head
unit with a single DIN or double DIN replacement is so low that you
really don't want to deal with all sorts of adapters and cables and
power sources; for under $200 you can get a head unit with Bluetooth,
HD, AUX, and USB, be safer, and not deal with all that hassle.

I'm like most people I've talked with about this. I'm reluctant to replace
the factory head unit with an aftermarket unit. You almost certainly gain
increased functionality, but you really mess up the aesthetics because the
aftermarket units tend to go overboard on the bright lights, multicolored
segmented displays, background colors that clash with the rest of the dash
lighting, buttons for volume rather than a simple knob, things like that.
I've replaced a couple of factory units before, so I'm not completely
opposed to it, but it's not all roses.

Post by sms
Or you
buy one of the AUX-IN adapters for a factory head unit.

Yeah, that's what I've been talking about from the start.

[sms]

<snip>

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by sms
Or you
buy one of the AUX-IN adapters for a factory head unit.

Yeah, that's what I've been talking about from the start.

What you don't get on an older car with the AUX-In adapter is the
ability to play MP3 CDs. On my relatives older Honda she wanted some
cassettes transferred to CDs. If the vehicle had been able to play MP3
CDs it would have taken about two CDs rather than 25.

But while replacing a functional in-dash factory head unit has the
drawbacks you pointed out, in some cases there have been posts about
using all the kludge adapters to restore functionality that's broken in
the factory head unit.

[Marcus Allen]

Post by sms
What you don't get on an older car with the AUX-In adapter is the
ability to play MP3 CDs.

True, but in my case that was a fad that lasted a very, very short period of
time. USB very quickly took over from MP3 CDs. These days, I still sometimes
use USB, but Bluetooth is easier, once it's set up. I haven't played a CD
(regular or MP3 variety) in a car in quite a few years.

[sms]

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by sms
What you don't get on an older car with the AUX-In adapter is the
ability to play MP3 CDs.

True, but in my case that was a fad that lasted a very, very short period of
time. USB very quickly took over from MP3 CDs. These days, I still sometimes
use USB, but Bluetooth is easier, once it's set up. I haven't played a CD
(regular or MP3 variety) in a car in quite a few years.

I have a couple of relatives that wanted MP3 CDs, one for audio books,
one for some sort of Buddhist recordings she had on cassettes. In both
cases they had a Honda that could not play MP3 CDs. Neither would ever
deal with USB sticks or SD cards or smart phone streaming. I offered to
put in a replacement head unit for them, it would have been less than
$100, but they declined. One bought a new car when her Accord turned
from a four cylinder engine car into a three cylinder engine car and the
new car has a head unit that plays MP3 CDs. I haven't yet told her that
I can redo the CDDA CDs I made for her from cassettes.

[sms]

Post by Marcus Allen
I'm like most people I've talked with about this. I'm reluctant to replace
the factory head unit with an aftermarket unit. You almost certainly gain
increased functionality, but you really mess up the aesthetics because the
aftermarket units tend to go overboard on the bright lights, multicolored
segmented displays, background colors that clash with the rest of the dash
lighting, buttons for volume rather than a simple knob, things like that.
I've replaced a couple of factory units before, so I'm not completely
opposed to it, but it's not all roses.

I've seen those flashy units, but the name brand manufacturers seem to
have made an effort to minimize that sort of thing. They also use a
rotary control for volume (as well as for other scrolling). I.e. the
Kenwood KDC-BT752HD that I mentioned. I hate those volume buttons too!
The flashier units tend to be the double-DIN where they seem to think
that they need to fill all that space with a flashy display.

[SMS]

<snip>

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by sms
Well you don't need much range,

That depends on the vehicle, I suppose. One of my recently sold vehicles had
the radio antenna at the rear of the car, so an FM transmitter had zero hope
of working in that car. My current vehicle has the antenna in the front,
embedded at the top of the windshield, and the FM transmitter works if I
hold it up near the rear view mirror, but it fades out if I put the device
down on the center console. In both cases, the FM transmitter solution is
completely unacceptable.

I agree. Futzing around with these marginal-solution kludges is not
something many people want to deal with for vety long. They try them out
thinking 'what a great idea that will save me money' then they soon
realize that 'this really sucks.'

[poldy]

Post by sms
<snip>

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by sms
Well you don't need much range,

That depends on the vehicle, I suppose. One of my recently sold vehicles had
the radio antenna at the rear of the car, so an FM transmitter had zero hope
of working in that car. My current vehicle has the antenna in the front,
embedded at the top of the windshield, and the FM transmitter works if I
hold it up near the rear view mirror, but it fades out if I put the device
down on the center console. In both cases, the FM transmitter solution is
completely unacceptable.

I agree. Futzing around with these marginal-solution kludges is not
something many people want to deal with for vety long. They try them out
thinking 'what a great idea that will save me money' then they soon
realize that 'this really sucks.'

When I bought my car in 2006, one of the features I was looking for was
a built-in aux jack.

Used it for awhile and still do occasionally. But most of the time, I
just use earphones. That way when I get in and out of the car, it's
still playing.

I could be interested in something like CarPlay in the future.

But if I have to buy some expensive tech package which includes
bluetooth, GPS, to get a screen built into the console, I'd try to avoid
it.

However, some brands, especially luxury imports, are only available with
various tech packages like GPS.

New law mandating rear cameras in cars by 2018 might also achieve
putting screens in all cars. Maybe not with the overpriced packages
though.

Who wants to pay thousands for a built-in GPS when it's got outdated
maps when you buy the car and the dealer/manufacturer tries to squeeze
you for hundreds of dollars for map updates.

So you're better off using navigation apps. on your phone and if it can
be streamed on the screen built into the car, so you don't have to
fiddle with getting a dash or windshield mount for your phone, so much
the better.

[Roy]

Post by poldy
...
Used it for awhile and still do occasionally. But most of the time, I
just use earphones. That way when I get in and out of the car, it's
still playing.

Hopefully you meant using only one ear. It is illegal to drive in
California with headphones or buds in both ears.

[poldy]

In article

Post by Roy

Post by poldy
...
Used it for awhile and still do occasionally. But most of the time, I
just use earphones. That way when I get in and out of the car, it's
still playing.

Hopefully you meant using only one ear. It is illegal to drive in
California with headphones or buds in both ears.

Either. Actually, I didn't think either was legal.

But I was cited once for holding my phone -- I was trying to peak at a
notification while stopped at an intersection waiting for the light.

I appealed the citation, havent heard back. But apparently a judge in
Fresno just overturned a citation for the same CVC violation, noting
that phones have a lot of non-calling and texting features such as GPS.

I was wearing my buds at the time but the cop seemed focused on the
anti-calling/anti-texting citation.

[sms]

Post by poldy

Post by sms
<snip>

Post by Marcus Allen

Post by sms
Well you don't need much range,

That depends on the vehicle, I suppose. One of my recently sold vehicles had
the radio antenna at the rear of the car, so an FM transmitter had zero hope
of working in that car. My current vehicle has the antenna in the front,
embedded at the top of the windshield, and the FM transmitter works if I
hold it up near the rear view mirror, but it fades out if I put the device
down on the center console. In both cases, the FM transmitter solution is
completely unacceptable.

I agree. Futzing around with these marginal-solution kludges is not
something many people want to deal with for vety long. They try them out
thinking 'what a great idea that will save me money' then they soon
realize that 'this really sucks.'

When I bought my car in 2006, one of the features I was looking for was
a built-in aux jack.
Used it for awhile and still do occasionally. But most of the time, I
just use earphones. That way when I get in and out of the car, it's
still playing.
I could be interested in something like CarPlay in the future.
But if I have to buy some expensive tech package which includes
bluetooth, GPS, to get a screen built into the console, I'd try to avoid
it.
However, some brands, especially luxury imports, are only available with
various tech packages like GPS.
New law mandating rear cameras in cars by 2018 might also achieve
putting screens in all cars. Maybe not with the overpriced packages
though.
Who wants to pay thousands for a built-in GPS when it's got outdated
maps when you buy the car and the dealer/manufacturer tries to squeeze
you for hundreds of dollars for map updates.
So you're better off using navigation apps. on your phone and if it can
be streamed on the screen built into the car, so you don't have to
fiddle with getting a dash or windshield mount for your phone, so much
the better.

You can buy dual-DIN Android 4.0 head units with a 7" screen and install
an Android mapping application with stored maps.

I.e. <http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/131079022921?lpid=82>

[(null)]

Post by sms
You can buy dual-DIN Android 4.0 head units with a 7" screen and install
an Android mapping application with stored maps.
I.e. <http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/131079022921?lpid=82>

Sigh. That brings up a whole 'nother can of worms: The percentage of cars that
have DIN/2DIN openings (and thus would actually fit one of those units)
these days probably runs in the single digits.

[sms]

Post by (null)

Post by sms
You can buy dual-DIN Android 4.0 head units with a 7" screen and install
an Android mapping application with stored maps.
I.e. <http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/131079022921?lpid=82>

Sigh. That brings up a whole 'nother can of worms: The percentage of cars that
have DIN/2DIN openings (and thus would actually fit one of those units)
these days probably runs in the single digits.

For new cars that's true. But for older cars where you're more likely to
be replacing the existing head unit to gain functionality there are
many. I have two Toyotas with double DIN openings. Actually both now
have single-DIN units in the openings with a spacer, but they could go
back to double-DIN. There were a lot of double-DIN openings back when
vehicles had a cassette and CD player (though there were single-DIN
versions of head units with both as well).

[d***@97.usenet.us.com]

Post by (null)
Sigh. That brings up a whole 'nother can of worms: The percentage of cars
that have DIN/2DIN openings (and thus would actually fit one of those
units) these days probably runs in the single digits.

Did I miss the announcement? Vehicles stopped using DIN and went back to
proprietary openings and mountings?

[sms]

Post by d***@97.usenet.us.com

Post by (null)
Sigh. That brings up a whole 'nother can of worms: The percentage of cars
that have DIN/2DIN openings (and thus would actually fit one of those
units) these days probably runs in the single digits.

Did I miss the announcement? Vehicles stopped using DIN and went back to
proprietary openings and mountings?

Yes. Try to keep up.

But the thing is, a lot of people in this group seem to hang onto their
vehicles for a long time, hence a lot of them still have vehicles with
DIN openings. Personally we have two Toyotas with DIN openings, one with
a proprietary opening.

Actually there are some after-market devices for vehicles with
proprietary openings, at least for some popular vehicles.

[David Kaye]

Post by sms
But the thing is, a lot of people in this group seem to hang onto their
vehicles for a long time, hence a lot of them still have vehicles with DIN
openings.

A lot of people in general hold onto their vehicles longer than ever before.
According to NADA over 1/3 of passenger cars and trucks on the road are over
10 years old. Mine will soon be 20 and I'm expecting the state to offer to
buy it back for $1000 any day now...

[Marcus Allen]

Post by poldy
Who wants to pay thousands for a built-in GPS when it's got outdated
maps when you buy the car and the dealer/manufacturer tries to squeeze
you for hundreds of dollars for map updates.
So you're better off using navigation apps. on your phone and if it can
be streamed on the screen built into the car, so you don't have to
fiddle with getting a dash or windshield mount for your phone, so much
the better.

I don't remember the make/model now, but in the past few months I've seen
commercials for a low end car that advertises something along the lines of
"built-in GPS, powered by your smart phone". Chevy? Kia? I can't remember.

[Bhairitu]

Post by sms
<snip>

Post by Marcus Allen
I never had any luck with FM transmitters. The range is too short.

Well you don't need much range, but the problem is that if you're on a
longer trip you have to keep changing the frequency because of
interference since adjacent geographic areas often alternate
frequencies. It's not something that many people are willing to put up with/
The bottom line is that on an older car the cost of upgrading the head
unit with a single DIN or double DIN replacement is so low that you
really don't want to deal with all sorts of adapters and cables and
power sources; for under $200 you can get a head unit with Bluetooth,
HD, AUX, and USB, be safer, and not deal with all that hassle. Or you
buy one of the AUX-IN adapters for a factory head unit.

Actually my current phone is loud enough that I can just listen to it no
headset. I have a cigarette lighter to USB power adapter too. Thing is
I don't travel much anymore since becoming an old fart. ;-)