You know you're reading a book set in the UK when...

[Tony Cooper]

In reading a novel set in the UK I decided to list the words and terms
that identify the book as being set in the UK. Spelling differences
(colour/color) were ignored and as were place references. Also
skipped were the commonplace differences like flat/apartment and
solicitor/lawyer. I also skipped "digestive biscuit" because that's
been discussed here often enough to be a commonplace difference.
Still, it sounds medicinal to me rather than something tasty.

the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

the doctor had rooms at...AmE = the doctor's office was located at

she lives at Number 11...AmE = her address was 11 (street name)

the doctor's surgery...AmE = the doctor's office

he waved them through to the next room...AmE = he waved then into the
next room (waved could be "motioned")

when he was demobbed...AmE = when he was discharged

he had a reader's ticket to...AmE = he had a library card or a pass if
to an academic library

he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

the firm's overheads were...AmE = the firm's overhead was (like
"math", we don't add the "s")

he worked as a chippie...AmE = he worked as a carpenter (Interesting
that a "chippy" is a place but a "chippie" is person)

she was gasping for a...AmE = she was desperate for a (a large choice
of words here, but "gasping" isn't one of them)

they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

The last one is "messages" with the meaning of "dog poop", but I
didn't write down how that was used in the sentence.

There are, of course, other words and phrases that identify a book as
being British-written, but these are the ones in the book I just
finished.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Tony Cooper
In reading a novel set in the UK I decided to list the words and terms
that identify the book as being set in the UK. Spelling differences
(colour/color) were ignored and as were place references. Also
skipped were the commonplace differences like flat/apartment and
solicitor/lawyer. I also skipped "digestive biscuit" because that's
been discussed here often enough to be a commonplace difference.
Still, it sounds medicinal to me rather than something tasty.
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I always thought the meant locked (latched).

Post by Tony Cooper
he waved them through to the next room...AmE = he waved then into the
next room (waved could be "motioned")

Thank you.

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

command post?

[Horace LaBadie]

Post by Tony Cooper
when he was demobbed...AmE = when he was discharged

The formal term in the USA was demobilization, from which demob was
obviously derived. Why discharge replaced demob in the USA is anybody's
guess.

[pensive hamster]

On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 20:25:01 UTC+1, Tony Cooper wrote:
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.

There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

[Harrison Hill]

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Harrison Hill

Post by pensive hamster

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Houses in David Lodge novels have lounges.

[John Dunlop]

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

[LFS]

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

[Cheryl]

Post by LFS

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

Since I've found a number of UK home reno and building shows, I've
noticed that the larger of them have a large area with various names (an
open-concept area including the kitchen, a "diner", which makes me look
for a 50s-style fast food place, and a place to sit, and a "snug", which
I had vaguely assumed was part of a bar or tavern. In this context, it
appears to mean a kind of family room; a smaller and cosier alternative
to the sitting area in the big room.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Post by Cheryl

Post by LFS

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

Since I've found a number of UK home reno and building shows, I've
noticed that the larger of them have a large area with various names (an
open-concept area including the kitchen, a "diner", which makes me look
for a 50s-style fast food place, and a place to sit, and a "snug", which
I had vaguely assumed was part of a bar or tavern. In this context, it
appears to mean a kind of family room; a smaller and cosier alternative
to the sitting area in the big room.

I'm not sure to what extent such terms are used in everyday life.
Obviously the presenters and others on such TV shows need to use terms
to distinguish between types of room. Whether the people living in the
homes use those terms is a different matter.

[LFS]

Post by Cheryl

Post by LFS

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

Since I've found a number of UK home reno and building shows, I've
noticed that the larger of them have a large area with various names (an
open-concept area including the kitchen, a "diner", which makes me look
for a 50s-style fast food place, and a place to sit, and a "snug", which
I had vaguely assumed was part of a bar or tavern. In this context, it
appears to mean a kind of family room; a smaller and cosier alternative
to the sitting area in the big room.

I wonder what programmes you are watching!

Kitchen/diners are very common these days: we could have one if we
knocked down the wall between the kitchen and dining room and most of
our neighbours have done that. I don't like the idea of my cooking
activity being visible to my guests.

Very large kitchens may have a sitting area (often with a
couch/sofa/settee) but I have never heard anyone speak of a snug other
than in the context of old-fashioned pubs.

I know someone who has just moved to a newly built house which is
completely open plan on the ground floor, apart from a cloakroom
(AmE:bathroom). No rooms at all.

[Cheryl]

Post by LFS

Post by Cheryl

Post by LFS

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

Since I've found a number of UK home reno and building shows, I've
noticed that the larger of them have a large area with various names (an
open-concept area including the kitchen, a "diner", which makes me look
for a 50s-style fast food place, and a place to sit, and a "snug", which
I had vaguely assumed was part of a bar or tavern. In this context, it
appears to mean a kind of family room; a smaller and cosier alternative
to the sitting area in the big room.

I wonder what programmes you are watching!
Kitchen/diners are very common these days: we could have one if we
knocked down the wall between the kitchen and dining room and most of
our neighbours have done that. I don't like the idea of my cooking
activity being visible to my guests.
Very large kitchens may have a sitting area (often with a
couch/sofa/settee) but I have never heard anyone speak of a snug other
than in the context of old-fashioned pubs.
I know someone who has just moved to a newly built house which is
completely open plan on the ground floor, apart from a cloakroom
(AmE:bathroom). No rooms at all.

I must admit to being slightly baffled by the number of older couples on
some of these programs who are downsizing to a massive house in the
country with four or five bedrooms, an enormous open-concept
kitchen/diner/living area, and possibly a few other extras. It also
seems absolutely essential to have entire walls of windows and, of
course, an area near the entrance illuminated by these windows and open
from the ground floor to the rafters two or three storeys up.

Of course, open-concept layouts have been popular here for a long time.
I never much liked the idea, but the apartment I eventually chose for my
last move had so many other things I liked that I decided I could get
used to having essentially one large room for a living room, dining
room, kitchen, entry hall. And I did.

I suspect the channel I've been getting these UK shows on is a bit of a
teaser, and will shortly become unavailable unless I pay more. They
include "Building the Dream", "Restoration Man" and "Restoration Home"
(which convinced me that no one in their right mind restores a ruined
building to live in), "Escape to the Country"...I might be forgetting
one or two. There are food shows too, including Australian and Canadian
ones, but the houses all seem to be from the UK.

[LFS]

Post by Cheryl
I suspect the channel I've been getting these UK shows on is a bit of a
teaser, and will shortly become unavailable unless I pay more. They
include "Building the Dream", "Restoration Man" and "Restoration Home"
(which convinced me that no one in their right mind restores a ruined
building to live in), "Escape to the Country"...I might be forgetting
one or two. There are food shows too, including Australian and Canadian
ones, but the houses all seem to be from the UK.

Of those I've only watched "Escape to the Country" and that only
accidentally. I've never heard of "Building the Dream" but we do like
"Grand Designs" which sounds similar. "Homes under the Hammer" is my
favourite, where people buy properties at auction and renovate them,
hoping to make a great deal of money. I always hope that things will go
horribly wrong and sometimes they do.

[Jerry Friedman]

On 4/26/17 5:31 AM, LFS wrote:
...

Post by LFS
Kitchen/diners are very common these days: we could have one if we
knocked down the wall between the kitchen and dining room and most of
our neighbours have done that. I don't like the idea of my cooking
activity being visible to my guests.
Very large kitchens may have a sitting area (often with a
couch/sofa/settee) but I have never heard anyone speak of a snug other
than in the context of old-fashioned pubs.
I know someone who has just moved to a newly built house which is
completely open plan on the ground floor, apart from a cloakroom
(AmE:bathroom). No rooms at all.

I've been in one of those, which must have been built in the '50s or
'60s at the latest. At least half the area consisted of a swimming pool.

[Adam Funk]

Post by Cheryl

Post by LFS
We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

Since I've found a number of UK home reno and building shows, I've
noticed that the larger of them have a large area with various names (an
open-concept area including the kitchen, a "diner", which makes me look
for a 50s-style fast food place, and a place to sit, and a "snug", which
I had vaguely assumed was part of a bar or tavern. In this context, it
appears to mean a kind of family room; a smaller and cosier alternative
to the sitting area in the big room.

A "snug" to me is a small room in a (traditional) multi-room British
pub.

[Paul Wolff]

Post by LFS

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

We had a couch WIWAL, and I'm confident my mother knew her way around
all the necessary social conventions, so it must have been the right
word. But since then, I've read contrary opinions, and now I have no
idea where sofa, couch and settee stand on the social scale. Perhaps the
social scale of speaking is falling apart anyway, wiv estuarine English
appealing to the dinner-party groupies of Islington and Notting Hill.

[Whiskers]

Post by Paul Wolff

Post by LFS

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

We had a couch WIWAL, and I'm confident my mother knew her way around
all the necessary social conventions, so it must have been the right
word. But since then, I've read contrary opinions, and now I have no
idea where sofa, couch and settee stand on the social scale. Perhaps the
social scale of speaking is falling apart anyway, wiv estuarine English
appealing to the dinner-party groupies of Islington and Notting Hill.

Ours was emphatically a settee. Although nowadays it might be referred
to as a sofa-bed, as it was convertible. It stood directly facing the
fireplace, and the piano was behind it. We called that room the dining
room because the dining table was in it too, at the other end near the
hatch to the kitchen. We had a lounge as well, where children were
forbidden unless specifically invited; I think there was a sofa in there
but I can't picture it now. That was in the early '50s, in a new
bungalow. The lounge smelled of what I have since identified as sherry.

[Janet]

Post by LFS

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

See, it's not what you sit on, it's who does the sitting.

We have three sofas and the dog sits on all of them.

Janet

[Cheryl]

Post by Janet

Post by LFS

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

See, it's not what you sit on, it's who does the sitting.
We have three sofas and the dog sits on all of them.

One of my sisters has two chairs and a sofa in her living room. One is
hers, one is her husband's, and the sofa belongs to the dog - and any
visitors who happen to arrive.

The sofa was replaced recently, and the dog was a bit distressed during
the period between the disposal of the old one and the appearance of the
new one. It was really difficult to properly watch out for dangerous
squirrels and mail carriers without it.

[Tony Cooper]

Post by LFS

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a living room, sometimes referred to as the lounge, which
contains, along with other pieces of furniture, an item which is
variously referred to as the couch or the sofa. I don't know where that
places us on the class scale. On Sunday a knight of the realm was
sitting on it.

The interesting thing about a thread like this is that new aspects of
things previously discussed come to light.

We have discussed the word used to describe that piece of furniture
that seats several people, but I don't think it's been brought up that
the word chosen is a class marker.

Fleetingly, I imagined the need for your lounge to include a Hoyer
lift to return the visiting knight to an upright position.
http://tinyurl.com/mz3q8a8 or
http://medmartonline.com/hoyer-advance-e-portabel-patient-lift?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=adwords&utm_campaign=ecom+shopping+high+margin&utm_content=money+makers&gclid=Cj0KEQjwioHIBRCes6nP56Ti1IsBEiQAxxb5Gw_CqakpyWRmyiZE6uLWpOCM8yiBzPz2bu1A3-NkQwUaAgF68P8HAQ
but I suppose knights now go afield without the iron suit.

[Katy Jennison]

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a sitting-room, too. (Ours has a hyphen, so there.) And, just
for complete disclosure, it contains a sofa.

We don't have a drawing-room, as such. If I want to draw, I go into the
conservatory: the light's better. But my grandmothers both had studios,
into which they sometimes withdrew.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 11:01:41 +0100, Katy Jennison

Post by Katy Jennison

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

We have a sitting-room, too. (Ours has a hyphen, so there.) And, just
for complete disclosure, it contains a sofa.
We don't have a drawing-room, as such. If I want to draw, I go into the
conservatory: the light's better. But my grandmothers both had studios,
into which they sometimes withdrew.

Were there signs of this frequent withdrawing, "withdrawal symptoms"?

[John Dunlop]

Post by Katy Jennison
We have a sitting-room, too. (Ours has a hyphen, so there.) And,
just for complete disclosure, it contains a sofa.
We don't have a drawing-room, as such. If I want to draw, I go into
the conservatory: the light's better. But my grandmothers both had
studios, into which they sometimes withdrew.

In the same spirit then I should say our sitting room was once a byre,
though sometimes it still needs mucked out. The light is good enough for
drawing because the entrance for the cattle is now an eight-foot wide
floor-to-ceiling single-pane window---exceeding my hyphen quota for today.

No, the sofas are not leather.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense.

Yes, but it's Harrison in one of his "I'm the only yobbo here" moods.

Post by John Dunlop
This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living room".
Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone used it
first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a "couch"
(i.e., non-U).

[Janet]

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@yahoo.co.uk
says...

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense.

Yes, but it's Harrison in one of his "I'm the only yobbo here" moods.

LOL Usually he's earnestly trying to assure us how middle class he is.

Janet

[John Ritson]

Post by John Dunlop

Post by Harrison Hill
None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

Nonsense. This British house has both a "sitting room" and a "living
room". Neither is pretentious. "Lounge" I wouldn't use unless someone
used it first. It sounds like somewhere you'd sit on a "settee" or a
"couch" (i.e., non-U).

There was something called a "through lounge", which generally meant
that a partition wall had been removed, creating a larger room (normally
combining dining room and living/sitting room). I don't think that
"through sitting room" or "through living room" or "through dining room"
would work.

[Janet]

Post by Harrison Hill

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

None of us Brits are pretentious enough to have a "drawing room"
or a "sitting room". "Lounges" are familiar enough from airports.

No pretensions, but ours is a sitting room.

Janet.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

We (my family) often refer to our "front room", too. It's
interchangeable with "living room" in our vocabulary. I don't know if
that's a regional thing or an anywhere-in-the-US thing.

The book from which I noted the terms (The Marx Sisters - Barry
Maitland) was published in 1994. There's nothing in the book that I
remember that dates the setting.

Maitland was born in Scotland, raised in London, and currently (1994)
teaches at the University of Newcastle in Australia.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

We (my family) often refer to our "front room", too. It's
interchangeable with "living room" in our vocabulary. I don't know if
that's a regional thing or an anywhere-in-the-US thing.

Our house has a front room without a suitable name. "Entry hall" doesn't
quite fit because it's definitely a room, not a hall. It contains a
piano, two bookcases, a large table, and sometimes some hard seats. (The
seats tend to move from room to room, depending on need.) No lounge
chairs. My wife calls it the dining room because it contains a dining
table, but we've never eaten a meal there. I call it the top room, with
equal lack of logic.

Post by Tony Cooper
The book from which I noted the terms (The Marx Sisters - Barry
Maitland) was published in 1994. There's nothing in the book that I
remember that dates the setting.
Maitland was born in Scotland, raised in London, and currently (1994)
teaches at the University of Newcastle in Australia.

He's been in Newcastle for quite a while, so his vocabulary is a mixture
of English and Australian. Most of the examples you gave would work
equally well in Australia, although I don't think Australian houses ever
had latchstrings.

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 14:00:53 +1000, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

We (my family) often refer to our "front room", too. It's
interchangeable with "living room" in our vocabulary. I don't know if
that's a regional thing or an anywhere-in-the-US thing.

Our house has a front room without a suitable name. "Entry hall" doesn't
quite fit because it's definitely a room, not a hall. It contains a
piano, two bookcases, a large table, and sometimes some hard seats. (The
seats tend to move from room to room, depending on need.) No lounge
chairs. My wife calls it the dining room because it contains a dining
table, but we've never eaten a meal there. I call it the top room, with
equal lack of logic.

Rooms must have a name. When you can't find something, and you ask
your wife where it is, she has to be able to tell you "It's in the
(name) room".

[LFS]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 14:00:53 +1000, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

We (my family) often refer to our "front room", too. It's
interchangeable with "living room" in our vocabulary. I don't know if
that's a regional thing or an anywhere-in-the-US thing.

Our house has a front room without a suitable name. "Entry hall" doesn't
quite fit because it's definitely a room, not a hall. It contains a
piano, two bookcases, a large table, and sometimes some hard seats. (The
seats tend to move from room to room, depending on need.) No lounge
chairs. My wife calls it the dining room because it contains a dining
table, but we've never eaten a meal there. I call it the top room, with
equal lack of logic.

Rooms must have a name. When you can't find something, and you ask
your wife where it is, she has to be able to tell you "It's in the
(name) room".

I have a sudden very clear memory of my mother answering such a query
with the response "It's inside." Inside meant in the lounge/front room
and was used if one was not in that room, rather than outside the house.
"On the side" was another description of where an item might be found
but this was confined to the kitchen.

[GordonD]

Post by LFS

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 14:00:53 +1000, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster

Post by pensive hamster
On Tuesday, 25 April 2017 20:25:01 UTC+1, Tony Cooper
wrote: [...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U
words are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a
traditional terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

We (my family) often refer to our "front room", too. It's
interchangeable with "living room" in our vocabulary. I don't
know if that's a regional thing or an anywhere-in-the-US
thing.

Our house has a front room without a suitable name. "Entry hall"
doesn't quite fit because it's definitely a room, not a hall. It
contains a piano, two bookcases, a large table, and sometimes
some hard seats. (The seats tend to move from room to room,
depending on need.) No lounge chairs. My wife calls it the dining
room because it contains a dining table, but we've never eaten a
meal there. I call it the top room, with equal lack of logic.

Rooms must have a name. When you can't find something, and you
ask your wife where it is, she has to be able to tell you "It's in
the (name) room".

I have a sudden very clear memory of my mother answering such a
query with the response "It's inside." Inside meant in the
lounge/front room and was used if one was not in that room, rather
than outside the house. "On the side" was another description of
where an item might be found but this was confined to the kitchen.

'Inside' is commonly used to refer to the lower deck of a double-decker
bus. (The upper deck is 'upstairs'.) I've always assumed this dates way
back to the days when the upper deck was open to the elements, so if you
were sitting there you weren't really inside the bus.

[Adam Funk]

Post by GordonD

Post by LFS
I have a sudden very clear memory of my mother answering such a
query with the response "It's inside." Inside meant in the
lounge/front room and was used if one was not in that room, rather
than outside the house. "On the side" was another description of
where an item might be found but this was confined to the kitchen.

'Inside' is commonly used to refer to the lower deck of a double-decker
bus. (The upper deck is 'upstairs'.) I've always assumed this dates way
back to the days when the upper deck was open to the elements, so if you
were sitting there you weren't really inside the bus.

AFAICT open-top buses now are just for tourism.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Post by Adam Funk

Post by GordonD

Post by LFS
I have a sudden very clear memory of my mother answering such a
query with the response "It's inside." Inside meant in the
lounge/front room and was used if one was not in that room, rather
than outside the house. "On the side" was another description of
where an item might be found but this was confined to the kitchen.

'Inside' is commonly used to refer to the lower deck of a double-decker
bus. (The upper deck is 'upstairs'.) I've always assumed this dates way
back to the days when the upper deck was open to the elements, so if you
were sitting there you weren't really inside the bus.

AFAICT open-top buses now are just for tourism.

Yes. The terms I learnt for the decks of a double-decker bus were
"inside" for the lower deck, as GordonD said, and "on top" for the upper
deck. That was even though the upper deck was enclosed. Those terms were
obviously carried over from when upper decks were open.

[Whiskers]

Post by Adam Funk

Post by GordonD

Post by LFS
I have a sudden very clear memory of my mother answering such a
query with the response "It's inside." Inside meant in the
lounge/front room and was used if one was not in that room, rather
than outside the house. "On the side" was another description of
where an item might be found but this was confined to the kitchen.

'Inside' is commonly used to refer to the lower deck of a
double-decker bus. (The upper deck is 'upstairs'.) I've always
assumed this dates way back to the days when the upper deck was open
to the elements, so if you were sitting there you weren't really
inside the bus.

AFAICT open-top buses now are just for tourism.

Or victorious football teams or returning Olympians.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 14:00:53 +1000, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

We (my family) often refer to our "front room", too. It's
interchangeable with "living room" in our vocabulary. I don't know if
that's a regional thing or an anywhere-in-the-US thing.

Our house has a front room without a suitable name. "Entry hall" doesn't
quite fit because it's definitely a room, not a hall. It contains a
piano, two bookcases, a large table, and sometimes some hard seats. (The
seats tend to move from room to room, depending on need.) No lounge
chairs. My wife calls it the dining room because it contains a dining
table, but we've never eaten a meal there. I call it the top room, with
equal lack of logic.

Rooms must have a name. When you can't find something, and you ask
your wife where it is, she has to be able to tell you "It's in the
(name) room".

Luckily, the things I can't find are rarely in that room. They'll be in
the more commonly used rooms, and those have adequate names.

It's simpler when she loses something, because half the time it's her
phone. I just have to dial the number, and then wander through the house
listening for a ring. For another common problem, I've put a transponder
on her key ring.

[Stefan Ram]

Post by Tony Cooper
Rooms must have a name.

And homes (dwellings) need to have names, like
"Netherfield", "Pemberley", "Wuthering Heights",
or "Thrushcross Grange".

[Cheryl]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

We (my family) often refer to our "front room", too. It's
interchangeable with "living room" in our vocabulary. I don't know if
that's a regional thing or an anywhere-in-the-US thing.

Our house has a front room without a suitable name. "Entry hall" doesn't
quite fit because it's definitely a room, not a hall. It contains a
piano, two bookcases, a large table, and sometimes some hard seats. (The
seats tend to move from room to room, depending on need.) No lounge
chairs. My wife calls it the dining room because it contains a dining
table, but we've never eaten a meal there. I call it the top room, with
equal lack of logic.

I used to hear "front room" as an alternative to "living room", but I
don't think I have for a while. I don't know if it's a local
Newfoundland term, or something I picked up from my American father. I
should ask some friends if they know "front room".

In the old days (and, actually, the not-so-old days; some of my
relatives lived a bit like this) the front/living room was only used for
special honoured guests. People actually lived, and visited with their
close friends, in the kitchen. Children were forbidden to enter the
front room unless they had to help clean it; they might make a mess or
break something or leave dirty fingerprints and footprints all over it.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Cheryl

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 14:36:26 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster

Post by pensive hamster
[...]

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

Lounge is a bit non-U, allegedly, and also a bit 1960s. U words
are (with)drawing room or sitting room.
There is also "front room", which is the sitting room in a traditional
terraced house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

We (my family) often refer to our "front room", too. It's
interchangeable with "living room" in our vocabulary. I don't know if
that's a regional thing or an anywhere-in-the-US thing.

Our house has a front room without a suitable name. "Entry hall" doesn't
quite fit because it's definitely a room, not a hall. It contains a
piano, two bookcases, a large table, and sometimes some hard seats. (The
seats tend to move from room to room, depending on need.) No lounge
chairs. My wife calls it the dining room because it contains a dining
table, but we've never eaten a meal there. I call it the top room, with
equal lack of logic.

I used to hear "front room" as an alternative to "living room", but I
don't think I have for a while. I don't know if it's a local
Newfoundland term, or something I picked up from my American father. I
should ask some friends if they know "front room".
In the old days (and, actually, the not-so-old days; some of my
relatives lived a bit like this) the front/living room was only used for
special honoured guests. People actually lived, and visited with their
close friends, in the kitchen. Children were forbidden to enter the
front room unless they had to help clean it; they might make a mess or
break something or leave dirty fingerprints and footprints all over it.

That could have been a "parlor" or a "front parlor." "Front room" is known but dialectal.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room

An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

The practice of Scotland Yard taking over a case from the local plods is
a scenario used in older crime fiction. While it is not impossible
today, it is much less likely. In relatively recent years police forces
have been amalgamated. That means that although other forces are still
smaller than the London Metropolitan Police ("Scotland Yard") the
mismatch in resources and capabilities is much less than it used to be..

There are 39 forces in England, 4 in Wales and 1 each in Northern
Ireland and Scotland.

There are some so-called "non-territorial" police organisations.

More info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_agencies_in_the_United_Kingdom,_Crown_dependencies_and_British_Overseas_Territories#Territorial_police_forces

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.

In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

[bill van]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would never let
a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of the details of
their investigations are all over the walls. It's a fairly obvious
police tool for major investigations, however, so it does show up in
fiction about such investigations.

[Tony Cooper]

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would never let
a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of the details of
their investigations are all over the walls. It's a fairly obvious
police tool for major investigations, however, so it does show up in
fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that is
set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.

Is that done?

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would never let
a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of the details of
their investigations are all over the walls. It's a fairly obvious
police tool for major investigations, however, so it does show up in
fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that is
set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.
Is that done?

I still say it's a command post.

I realize you're unwilling to acknowledge your support of my comparison of
BrE "through" with AmE "in."

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:32:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would never let
a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of the details of
their investigations are all over the walls. It's a fairly obvious
police tool for major investigations, however, so it does show up in
fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that is
set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.
Is that done?

I still say it's a command post.

Wonderful. Not the question, not the term, but something that might
be used.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
I realize you're unwilling to acknowledge your support of my comparison of
BrE "through" with AmE "in."

Well, it wasn't support. As I remember what the previous discussion
was about, it concerned the phrase "Come/Go through". One of the
characters in one of your Gold Standards of Modern British Phrasing -
Keeping Up Appearances, Last of the Summer Wine, As Time Goes By, or
whatever Geofffrey Palmer was in when Thatcher was in office - stood
at a door and told someone to "Come through" or "Go Through", but you
couldn't see a room in which they had to pass through to get to the
next room. That totally flummoxed you.

That is a different usage than my example: "he waved them through to
the next room". In my example, there *is* a next room. And, my
example of AmE would be: he waved then [sic] into the next room
(waved could be "motioned"). Not "in", "into".

Although, I suspect your intent here is to do your dome/dom thing and
simply open the door to rehashing something you've already belabored
far too much.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:32:59 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would never let
a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of the details of
their investigations are all over the walls. It's a fairly obvious
police tool for major investigations, however, so it does show up in
fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that is
set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.
Is that done?

I still say it's a command post.

Wonderful. Not the question, not the term, but something that might
be used.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
I realize you're unwilling to acknowledge your support of my comparison of
BrE "through" with AmE "in."

Well, it wasn't support. As I remember what the previous discussion
was about, it concerned the phrase "Come/Go through". One of the
characters in one of your Gold Standards of Modern British Phrasing -
Keeping Up Appearances, Last of the Summer Wine, As Time Goes By, or
whatever Geofffrey Palmer was in when Thatcher was in office - stood
at a door and told someone to "Come through" or "Go Through", but you
couldn't see a room in which they had to pass through to get to the
next room. That totally flummoxed you.

Your dementia is kicking in again.

Post by Tony Cooper
That is a different usage than my example: "he waved them through to
the next room". In my example, there *is* a next room. And, my
example of AmE would be: he waved then [sic] into the next room
(waved could be "motioned"). Not "in", "into".
Although, I suspect your intent here is to do your dome/dom thing and
simply open the door to rehashing something you've already belabored
far too much.

Now you're confabulating.

[bill van]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would never let
a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of the details of
their investigations are all over the walls. It's a fairly obvious
police tool for major investigations, however, so it does show up in
fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that is
set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.
Is that done?

Now you're talking about FBI procedures when they take over an
investigation where they don't have offices. I have no way of knowing
whether they set up their own incident rooms or use the local police
facilities. I would hope the latter, assuming the local cops are
considered trustworthy.

[Cheryl]

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would never let
a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of the details of
their investigations are all over the walls. It's a fairly obvious
police tool for major investigations, however, so it does show up in
fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that is
set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.
Is that done?

Now you're talking about FBI procedures when they take over an
investigation where they don't have offices. I have no way of knowing
whether they set up their own incident rooms or use the local police
facilities. I would hope the latter, assuming the local cops are
considered trustworthy.

I would think that if a very major case happened in an area in which the
local police didn't have much in the way of facilities - perhaps a very
rural area - the visiting police would have to set up some kind of space
to work in. I can't say that I remember a real life case of this, except
perhaps major disasters like an airplane crash. And in those cases,
perhaps naturally, the media seems to mention mostly the extra
facilities needed as a temporary morgue rather than what office or
meeting space the visiting experts might need in addition to what the
local police used on a routine basis.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Cheryl
I would think that if a very major case happened in an area in which the
local police didn't have much in the way of facilities - perhaps a very
rural area - the visiting police would have to set up some kind of space
to work in. I can't say that I remember a real life case of this, except
perhaps major disasters like an airplane crash. And in those cases,
perhaps naturally, the media seems to mention mostly the extra
facilities needed as a temporary morgue rather than what office or
meeting space the visiting experts might need in addition to what the
local police used on a routine basis.

Tony Cooper didn't bother explaining why that can't be called a "command post."

[Katy Jennison]

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would never let
a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of the details of
their investigations are all over the walls. It's a fairly obvious
police tool for major investigations, however, so it does show up in
fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that is
set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.
Is that done?

Now you're talking about FBI procedures when they take over an
investigation where they don't have offices. I have no way of knowing
whether they set up their own incident rooms or use the local police
facilities. I would hope the latter, assuming the local cops are
considered trustworthy.

If it's a major investigation in a rural area, a small police station
might not have an adequate space. Mind you, small rural cop shops are
increasingly being closed, um, "rationalised".

In TV dramas, they sometimes take over a local hotel.

[GordonD]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 18:12:56 -0700, bill van

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an
AmE term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes
over a case from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a
similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will
establish one when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are
dealing with a major crime or accident. [British] 'Police have
set up an incident room as they begin to investigate this
morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't
seem to have a similar structure in the US where an outside
police force will take up an investigation in some town and set
up an "incident room" when the crime is considered to be too
major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will
take over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term
"incident room" has never been seen in any reporting I've seen.
They probably do set up some local site, but I've never seen it
reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would
never let a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of
the details of their investigations are all over the walls. It's a
fairly obvious police tool for major investigations, however, so it
does show up in fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that
is set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.
Is that done?

Yes, for things like murders in the countryside the police have mobile
offices that can be towed to the scene so that they don't have to keep
shuttling back and forward to their police station. The main details of
the investigation would still be back at HQ but the incident room lets
them maintain a presence on the spot, often with a notice outside asking
for information from any potential witnesses.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Post by GordonD

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 18:12:56 -0700, bill van

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an
AmE term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes
over a case from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a
similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will
establish one when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are
dealing with a major crime or accident. [British] 'Police have
set up an incident room as they begin to investigate this
morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't
seem to have a similar structure in the US where an outside
police force will take up an investigation in some town and set
up an "incident room" when the crime is considered to be too
major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will
take over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term
"incident room" has never been seen in any reporting I've seen.
They probably do set up some local site, but I've never seen it
reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would
never let a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of
the details of their investigations are all over the walls. It's a
fairly obvious police tool for major investigations, however, so it
does show up in fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that
is set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.
Is that done?

Yes, for things like murders in the countryside the police have mobile
offices that can be towed to the scene so that they don't have to keep
shuttling back and forward to their police station. The main details of
the investigation would still be back at HQ but the incident room lets
them maintain a presence on the spot, often with a notice outside asking
for information from any potential witnesses.

An "incident room" is a room, office, currently being used in connection
with one "incident"/investigation. It may be in a building or may be
mobile.

A news report from Kent, England, some years ago has an image of a
vehicle that is described in the caption as a "mobile police incident
unit" and in the body of the article as "a mobile police station".
Loading Image...

I don't know whether either of these is the official description of the
vehicle.

There was also a non-mobile incident room for that investigation. It
could be described as the head office for the investigation.

That article includes:
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/tunbridge-wells/news/police-release-man-held-over-ter-a23982/

The incident room number for people to call has now changed as the
murder inquiry team has moved to Kent Police headquarters in
Maidstone.

This image shows inside of a Vermont State Police "command post". The
appearance suggests that it is a vehicle, a mobile command post:
Loading Image...

[Janet]

In article <***@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by bill van

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 00:14:47 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident.
[British]
'Police have set up an incident room as they begin to investigate
this morning's fire.'

This I knew from other reading. My comment was that we don't seem to
have a similar structure in the US where an outside police force will
take up an investigation in some town and set up an "incident room"
when the crime is considered to be too major for the locals.
In the case of a federal crime (ie: kidnapping), the FBI will take
over the case. That is somewhat similar, but the term "incident room"
has never been seen in any reporting I've seen. They probably do set
up some local site, but I've never seen it reported.

It wouldn't show up in news reporting because the police would never let
a reporter anywhere near an incident room, where many of the details of
their investigations are all over the walls. It's a fairly obvious
police tool for major investigations, however, so it does show up in
fiction about such investigations.

I understand that, but the "incident room" in question is one that is
set up in a place other than the police headquarters of the
investigating force.
Is that done?

The incident room is set up on police premises. In most areas of UK,
there's more than one police station/ police offices to choose from.

Janet

[GordonD]

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a
case from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar
structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident. [British] 'Police have set up an
incident room as they begin to investigate this morning's fire.'
The practice of Scotland Yard taking over a case from the local plods
is a scenario used in older crime fiction. While it is not
impossible today, it is much less likely. In relatively recent years
police forces have been amalgamated. That means that although other
forces are still smaller than the London Metropolitan Police
("Scotland Yard") the mismatch in resources and capabilities is much
less than it used to be..

Indeed. 'Scotland Yard' was always presented as a team of experts, who
would solve cases that baffled the dull-witted local plods. (Except for
books about private detectives like Holmes and Poirot, where it was the
Scotland Yard men who were regularly stumped.)

[Jerry Friedman]

Post by GordonD

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a
case from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar
structure.

"Incident room" is more general. Any police force will establish one
when necessary.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/incident-room
An incident room is a room used by the police while they are dealing
with a major crime or accident. [British] 'Police have set up an
incident room as they begin to investigate this morning's fire.'
The practice of Scotland Yard taking over a case from the local plods
is a scenario used in older crime fiction. While it is not
impossible today, it is much less likely. In relatively recent years
police forces have been amalgamated. That means that although other
forces are still smaller than the London Metropolitan Police
("Scotland Yard") the mismatch in resources and capabilities is much
less than it used to be..

Indeed. 'Scotland Yard' was always presented as a team of experts, who
would solve cases that baffled the dull-witted local plods. (Except for
books about private detectives like Holmes and Poirot, where it was the
Scotland Yard men who were regularly stumped.)

There must be local-plod-shows-up-Scotland-Yard-experts books. One
American version is the late Tony Hillerman's Leaphorn and Chee series,
where the local plods are Navajo tribal police and the experts who
appear in some books are from the FBI.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.

I think it comes from the simple latch used on a gate or the door of a
garden shed or similar.
Like this one:
Loading Image...

That would be on the inside of the door. Note the lever coming through a
hole in the door. That can be used to lift the latch from the other side
of the door.

Wooden latches from a supplier with addresses in the US and Canada:
http://www.snugcottagehardware.com/Snug%20Product%20Pages/Latches%20for%20wood%20Traditional/Wooden%20Latches.html

If the door needs to be locked there would be a separate lock.

[David Kleinecke]

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.
I think it comes from the simple latch used on a gate or the door of a
garden shed or similar.
http://www.empagroup.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/shed-door-latch-bekkers-garden-shed-door-latches-guide-design.jpg
That would be on the inside of the door. Note the lever coming through a
hole in the door. That can be used to lift the latch from the other side
of the door.
http://www.snugcottagehardware.com/Snug%20Product%20Pages/Latches%20for%20wood%20Traditional/Wooden%20Latches.html
If the door needs to be locked there would be a separate lock.

Where the latch string hangs out (or doesn't) the latch
itself is just a bar on a hinge that drops down to bar the
door. The latch string is tied to the bar and there is a
small hole in the door above the latch. If the string is
poked through the hole and hanging on the outside a newcomer
can unlatch the door by pulling the string. Pull the string
out of the hole and the door is locked.

[Mark Brader]

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.
I think it comes from the simple latch used on a gate or the door of a
garden shed or similar.

My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

[Tony Cooper]

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.
I think it comes from the simple latch used on a gate or the door of a
garden shed or similar.

My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

Or, in a shorter term, "ajar". Normally, though, a door that is ajar
is partially open and not just not-quite-closed-firmly.

[Mark Brader]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader
My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

Or, in a shorter term, "ajar".

I wouldn't use "ajar" for that; to me it implies that it's not latched at all.

Post by Tony Cooper
Normally, though, a door that is ajar is partially open and not just
not-quite-closed-firmly.

More important, not latched.

[Tony Cooper]

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader
My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

Or, in a shorter term, "ajar".

I wouldn't use "ajar" for that; to me it implies that it's not latched at all.

Post by Tony Cooper
Normally, though, a door that is ajar is partially open and not just
not-quite-closed-firmly.

More important, not latched.

I know what you mean, but never think of a car door being "latched".
That car door that is not-quite-closed-firmly is locked if the locks
are engaged and requires a key or remote device to open. Or, it's
unlocked.

Not that "latch" is an inappropriate term because car doors have a
latching mechanism. I just wouldn't use that word in that context.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 01:02:12 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader
My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

Or, in a shorter term, "ajar".

I wouldn't use "ajar" for that; to me it implies that it's not latched at all.

Post by Tony Cooper
Normally, though, a door that is ajar is partially open and not just
not-quite-closed-firmly.

More important, not latched.

I know what you mean, but never think of a car door being "latched".
That car door that is not-quite-closed-firmly is locked if the locks
are engaged and requires a key or remote device to open. Or, it's
unlocked.
Not that "latch" is an inappropriate term because car doors have a
latching mechanism. I just wouldn't use that word in that context.

It's been years, but we used to say, "Open and close the (car) door,
it's not firmly latched." Someone might have said "half-latched".
- The door (probably) stays closed, but it rattles, lets in air, and
/feels/ like it must be unsafe.

The half-latched door I've noticed in recent years has been when
my seat belt gets caught. I think it's only half-latched then, but
I open it immediately so I can fasten the belt.

Whether "on the latch" means unlocked -- that's something I
have to try to figure out from the context because I don't get it.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Rich Ulrich
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 01:02:12 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader
My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

Or, in a shorter term, "ajar".

I wouldn't use "ajar" for that; to me it implies that it's not latched at all.

Post by Tony Cooper
Normally, though, a door that is ajar is partially open and not just
not-quite-closed-firmly.

More important, not latched.

I know what you mean, but never think of a car door being "latched".
That car door that is not-quite-closed-firmly is locked if the locks
are engaged and requires a key or remote device to open. Or, it's
unlocked.
Not that "latch" is an inappropriate term because car doors have a
latching mechanism. I just wouldn't use that word in that context.

It's been years, but we used to say, "Open and close the (car) door,
it's not firmly latched." Someone might have said "half-latched".
- The door (probably) stays closed, but it rattles, lets in air, and
/feels/ like it must be unsafe.
The half-latched door I've noticed in recent years has been when
my seat belt gets caught. I think it's only half-latched then, but
I open it immediately so I can fasten the belt.
Whether "on the latch" means unlocked -- that's something I
have to try to figure out from the context because I don't get it.

Still wondering why Tony Cooper thinks "on the latch" should mean 'off the latch'.

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 06:00:29 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by Rich Ulrich
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 01:02:12 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader
My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

Or, in a shorter term, "ajar".

I wouldn't use "ajar" for that; to me it implies that it's not latched at all.

Post by Tony Cooper
Normally, though, a door that is ajar is partially open and not just
not-quite-closed-firmly.

More important, not latched.

I know what you mean, but never think of a car door being "latched".
That car door that is not-quite-closed-firmly is locked if the locks
are engaged and requires a key or remote device to open. Or, it's
unlocked.
Not that "latch" is an inappropriate term because car doors have a
latching mechanism. I just wouldn't use that word in that context.

It's been years, but we used to say, "Open and close the (car) door,
it's not firmly latched." Someone might have said "half-latched".
- The door (probably) stays closed, but it rattles, lets in air, and
/feels/ like it must be unsafe.
The half-latched door I've noticed in recent years has been when
my seat belt gets caught. I think it's only half-latched then, but
I open it immediately so I can fasten the belt.
Whether "on the latch" means unlocked -- that's something I
have to try to figure out from the context because I don't get it.

Still wondering why Tony Cooper thinks "on the latch" should mean 'off the latch'.

I posited that "on the latch" means "unlocked" based on how the term
was used in context in the book. No UK contributor has stated that I
am incorrect. When a door is "on the latch", as I understand it no
key is needed to open the door. The latch mechanism keeps the door
closed, but the door can be opened by turning the handle or depressing
the lever that frees the latch.

I have never heard/seen "off the latch". I have no idea why you would
bring that up. Why do you bring up some term not used just because
you are befuddled?

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 06:00:29 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels

Post by Rich Ulrich
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 01:02:12 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader
My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

Or, in a shorter term, "ajar".

I wouldn't use "ajar" for that; to me it implies that it's not latched at all.

Post by Tony Cooper
Normally, though, a door that is ajar is partially open and not just
not-quite-closed-firmly.

More important, not latched.

I know what you mean, but never think of a car door being "latched".
That car door that is not-quite-closed-firmly is locked if the locks
are engaged and requires a key or remote device to open. Or, it's
unlocked.
Not that "latch" is an inappropriate term because car doors have a
latching mechanism. I just wouldn't use that word in that context.

It's been years, but we used to say, "Open and close the (car) door,
it's not firmly latched." Someone might have said "half-latched".
- The door (probably) stays closed, but it rattles, lets in air, and
/feels/ like it must be unsafe.
The half-latched door I've noticed in recent years has been when
my seat belt gets caught. I think it's only half-latched then, but
I open it immediately so I can fasten the belt.
Whether "on the latch" means unlocked -- that's something I
have to try to figure out from the context because I don't get it.

Still wondering why Tony Cooper thinks "on the latch" should mean 'off the latch'.

I posited that "on the latch" means "unlocked" based on how the term
was used in context in the book. No UK contributor has stated that I
am incorrect. When a door is "on the latch", as I understand it no
key is needed to open the door. The latch mechanism keeps the door
closed, but the door can be opened by turning the handle or depressing
the lever that frees the latch.
I have never heard/seen "off the latch". I have no idea why you would
bring that up. Why do you bring up some term not used just because
you are befuddled?

Oh. My. God. Are you even incapable of seeing and/or interpreting quotation marks?

Or have you simply never noticed that single-quotes and double-quotes are used
differently in AmE?

Or are you unable to interpret the words "on" and "off"?

[Richard Tobin]

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Still wondering why Tony Cooper thinks "on the latch" should mean 'off the latch'.

The bolt of the lock latches into the door frame, so it could mean
locked. Some locks have another latch which prevents the bolt from
going into the frame, so it could mean unlocked. The latter latch is
also known as a "snib", and when active the door can be said to be "on
the snib".

-- Richard

[Pavel Svinchnik]

Post by Tony Cooper

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.
I think it comes from the simple latch used on a gate or the door of a
garden shed or similar.

My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

Or, in a shorter term, "ajar". Normally, though, a door that is ajar
is partially open and not just not-quite-closed-firmly.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

In the courtroom scene in "The Pickwick Papers", Sam Weller testifies that
"the door was on the jar". Someone had to clarify for the judge that he meant "ajar". I've never come across the term "on the jar" anywhere else.

Paul

[Paul Wolff]

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.

My wife uses it still.

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I think it comes from the simple latch used on a gate or the door of a
garden shed or similar.

My parents used to use "on the half-latch" when speaking of a car door
that hadn't been pushed hard enough to fully close it. It was in the
condition where it stops a fraction of an inch short of being closed,
but is latched so it won't swing open again. I still don't know any
other phrase for that state (or any other kind of doors that work that
way, for that matter).

Not for door latches, but for firearms, the action can be in a similar
state, called half-cocked (when contrary to popular belief, it won't 'go
off').

[LFS]

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.

Really? We use it often. Normally closing our front door will
automatically lock it but if the latch is set, the door closes but can
be opened without a key. On our old front door, with a Yale lock,
setting the latch meant moving a button that disabled the locking
system. On our current front door, this is done by manipulating the handle.

[..]

[GordonD]

Post by LFS

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.

Really? We use it often. Normally closing our front door will
automatically lock it but if the latch is set, the door closes but
can be opened without a key. On our old front door, with a Yale
lock, setting the latch meant moving a button that disabled the
locking system. On our current front door, this is done by
manipulating the handle.
[..]

I'm not sure if I'm following you correctly here, Laura. My front door
has a Yale lock which obviously needs a key to open it from outside, but
a simple knob on the inside. There's a button next to the knob and if
you turn the knob then slide the button upwards, the tongue (if that's
the right word) of the lock is held inside so doesn't engage with the
doorframe. This means the door can be closed but is opened from outside
simply by pushing. That's my interpretation of 'on the latch' - though
in Scotland we would call it 'on the snib'. Is that what you meant?

[LFS]

Post by GordonD

Post by LFS

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.

Really? We use it often. Normally closing our front door will
automatically lock it but if the latch is set, the door closes but
can be opened without a key. On our old front door, with a Yale
lock, setting the latch meant moving a button that disabled the
locking system. On our current front door, this is done by
manipulating the handle.
[..]

I'm not sure if I'm following you correctly here, Laura. My front door
has a Yale lock which obviously needs a key to open it from outside, but
a simple knob on the inside. There's a button next to the knob and if
you turn the knob then slide the button upwards, the tongue (if that's
the right word) of the lock is held inside so doesn't engage with the
doorframe. This means the door can be closed but is opened from outside
simply by pushing. That's my interpretation of 'on the latch' - though
in Scotland we would call it 'on the snib'. Is that what you meant?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant and, thank you, snib was the word I was
trying to remember for the tongue bit.

[Tony Cooper]

Post by LFS

Post by GordonD

Post by LFS

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:24:59 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

I haven't heard that one for decades.

Really? We use it often. Normally closing our front door will
automatically lock it but if the latch is set, the door closes but
can be opened without a key. On our old front door, with a Yale
lock, setting the latch meant moving a button that disabled the
locking system. On our current front door, this is done by
manipulating the handle.
[..]

I'm not sure if I'm following you correctly here, Laura. My front door
has a Yale lock which obviously needs a key to open it from outside, but
a simple knob on the inside. There's a button next to the knob and if
you turn the knob then slide the button upwards, the tongue (if that's
the right word) of the lock is held inside so doesn't engage with the
doorframe. This means the door can be closed but is opened from outside
simply by pushing. That's my interpretation of 'on the latch' - though
in Scotland we would call it 'on the snib'. Is that what you meant?

Yes, that's exactly what I meant and, thank you, snib was the word I was
trying to remember for the tongue bit.

In the US we snub the snib term.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Tony Cooper
he waved them through to the next room...AmE = he waved then into the
next room (waved could be "motioned")

Careful, there, Tony. You could accidentally revive the argument about
that doctor in Cornwall.

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 14:02:10 +1000, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Tony Cooper
he waved them through to the next room...AmE = he waved then into the
next room (waved could be "motioned")

Careful, there, Tony. You could accidentally revive the argument about
that doctor in Cornwall.

Oh, he's already picked that up like a dog picks up his favorite ball
and brings it to you to throw, and throw again, and throw again....

I forgot it was a glimpse of a "Doc Martin" show that set him off.
That's a rather more modern show than he usually cites of Things You
Say Wrong.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 14:02:10 +1000, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Tony Cooper
he waved them through to the next room...AmE = he waved then into the
next room (waved could be "motioned")

Careful, there, Tony. You could accidentally revive the argument about
that doctor in Cornwall.

Oh, he's already picked that up like a dog picks up his favorite ball
and brings it to you to throw, and throw again, and throw again....

He had no idea what "that doctor in Cornwall" referred to.

Post by Tony Cooper
I forgot it was a glimpse of a "Doc Martin" show that set him off.
That's a rather more modern show than he usually cites of Things You
Say Wrong.

Sheer fantasy.

A moment's "Previously" simply confirmed that BrE uses "through" where AmE uses "in"
in that context.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Tony Cooper
In reading a novel set in the UK I decided to list the words and terms
that identify the book as being set in the UK. Spelling differences
(colour/color) were ignored and as were place references. Also
skipped were the commonplace differences like flat/apartment and
solicitor/lawyer. I also skipped "digestive biscuit" because that's
been discussed here often enough to be a commonplace difference.
Still, it sounds medicinal to me rather than something tasty.
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

OK, but I would never say "on the latch"

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor had rooms at...AmE = the doctor's office was located at

the doctor's surgery was at

Post by Tony Cooper
she lives at Number 11...AmE = her address was 11 (street name)

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor's surgery...AmE = the doctor's office

Yes

Post by Tony Cooper
he waved them through to the next room...AmE = he waved then into the
next room (waved could be "motioned")

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
when he was demobbed...AmE = when he was discharged

OK, if the book was written before about 1975. I doubt whether the youf
of today have much idea what "demobbed" means`;

Post by Tony Cooper
he had a reader's ticket to...AmE = he had a library card or a pass if
to an academic library

I don't think one would use reader's ticket for an ordinary library (if
indeed such a thing existed). Maybe OK for a no-lending library.

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Post by Tony Cooper
the firm's overheads were...AmE = the firm's overhead was (like
"math", we don't add the "s")

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
he worked as a chippie...AmE = he worked as a carpenter (Interesting
that a "chippy" is a place but a "chippie" is person)

Maybe, I don't know.

Post by Tony Cooper
she was gasping for a...AmE = she was desperate for a (a large choice
of words here, but "gasping" isn't one of them)

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
The last one is "messages" with the meaning of "dog poop", but I
didn't write down how that was used in the sentence.

I've never heard it used in that sense.

Post by Tony Cooper
There are, of course, other words and phrases that identify a book as
being British-written, but these are the ones in the book I just
finished.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor had rooms at...AmE = the doctor's office was located at

the doctor's surgery was at

In my (Australian) experience, most doctors, and certainly all GPs, have
a surgery, but the most expensive specialists have rooms.

[Adam Funk]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor had rooms at...AmE = the doctor's office was located at

the doctor's surgery was at

In my (Australian) experience, most doctors, and certainly all GPs, have
a surgery, but the most expensive specialists have rooms.

Sitting, drawing, or living?

[GordonD]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

[charles]

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

In many places in Scotland the room for wives was the "Cocktail Bar". A
Lounge bar did have seats, whereas the public bar was often standing only.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

Yes, I meant "lounge" in the sense of sitting room.

[charles]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

Yes, I meant "lounge" in the sense of sitting room.

Hotels still seem to have lounges - but "Lounge lizards" appear to be
extinct.

[LFS]

Post by charles

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

Yes, I meant "lounge" in the sense of sitting room.

Hotels still seem to have lounges - but "Lounge lizards" appear to be
extinct.

Modern hotels seem to just have bars or foyers, rather than separate
lounges. And there are still plenty of lounge lizard types about,
although I haven't heard the expression for a while.

[charles]

Post by LFS

Post by charles

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

Yes, I meant "lounge" in the sense of sitting room.

Hotels still seem to have lounges - but "Lounge lizards" appear to be
extinct.

Modern hotels seem to just have bars or foyers, rather than separate
lounges.

That's probably because "modern" hotels have a tv in every bedroom instead
of a "tv lounge" or even a lounge where you could just talk to people.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by charles

Post by LFS

Post by charles

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

Yes, I meant "lounge" in the sense of sitting room.

Hotels still seem to have lounges - but "Lounge lizards" appear to be
extinct.

Modern hotels seem to just have bars or foyers, rather than separate
lounges.

That's probably because "modern" hotels have a tv in every bedroom instead
of a "tv lounge" or even a lounge where you could just talk to people.

In Shanghai three or four years ago I was put in what was supposed to
be a good hotel (****, I think), belonging to one of the main European
hotel chains. There was no public place where one could just sit and
talk, or do things with one's computer. I tried to do that in the very
large ground-floor bar, but was told I could only sit there if I
ordered a drink. I wasn't pleased.

[LFS]

Post by charles

Post by LFS

Post by charles

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

Yes, I meant "lounge" in the sense of sitting room.

Hotels still seem to have lounges - but "Lounge lizards" appear to be
extinct.

Modern hotels seem to just have bars or foyers, rather than separate
lounges.

That's probably because "modern" hotels have a tv in every bedroom instead
of a "tv lounge" or even a lounge where you could just talk to people.

My grandparents spent their later years living in a hotel in
Westcliff-on-Sea which was full of crotchety old people. The TV lounge
was the scene of great battles between those wanting to watch BBC or
ITV. Occasionally the hotel manager invented fictitious technical
problems for the sake of a bit of peace and quiet.

[Cheryl]

Post by charles

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

Yes, I meant "lounge" in the sense of sitting room.

Hotels still seem to have lounges - but "Lounge lizards" appear to be
extinct.

I don't suppose the species is, though. There's an ad on TV showing a
young man meeting his grandmother at the airport when she returns from a
trip to Italy with a mountain of luggage and an Italian man. I hadn't
thought about it, but he's intended to be a lounge lizard, or perhaps a
gigolo, although those terms aren't used.

The ad is for a car which is large enough to accommodate grandmother,
her luggage, and her new boyfriend.

[Adam Funk]

Post by charles

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

Yes, I meant "lounge" in the sense of sitting room.

Hotels still seem to have lounges - but "Lounge lizards" appear to be
extinct.

Maybe they're just harder to spot without the leisure suits?

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Post by Adam Funk

Post by charles

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by GordonD

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Though until maybe ten or twenty years ago many pubs had 'lounge bars',
which was the sort of place you could take your wife to, as opposed to
the normal bar where conditions might not be quite so luxurious.

Yes, I meant "lounge" in the sense of sitting room.

Hotels still seem to have lounges - but "Lounge lizards" appear to be
extinct.

Maybe they're just harder to spot without the leisure suits?

Perhaps they are the species of Lounge Lizard that can blend into the
background: the Lounge Chameleon.

[Adam Funk]

Post by Tony Cooper
In reading a novel set in the UK I decided to list the words and terms
that identify the book as being set in the UK. Spelling differences
(colour/color) were ignored and as were place references. Also
skipped were the commonplace differences like flat/apartment and
solicitor/lawyer. I also skipped "digestive biscuit" because that's
been discussed here often enough to be a commonplace difference.
Still, it sounds medicinal to me rather than something tasty.

...

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor's surgery...AmE = the doctor's office

Yes

The weirdest bit is that this word is metaphorically extended to "MP's
surgery" (session at the MP's local office or room in a public
building where constituents can come talk to their MP).

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Tony Cooper
In reading a novel set in the UK I decided to list the words and terms
that identify the book as being set in the UK. Spelling differences
(colour/color) were ignored and as were place references. Also
skipped were the commonplace differences like flat/apartment and
solicitor/lawyer. I also skipped "digestive biscuit" because that's
been discussed here often enough to be a commonplace difference.
Still, it sounds medicinal to me rather than something tasty.

...

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor's surgery...AmE = the doctor's office

Yes

The weirdest bit is that this word is metaphorically extended to "MP's
surgery" (session at the MP's local office or room in a public
building where constituents can come talk to their MP).

In the Irish Republic that is known as a "clinic".
For example this TD (equivalent of an MP):
http://www.tonymcloughlintd.ie/clinics

Tony [McLoughlin] holds constituency clinics in his Sligo
Constituency office on a weekly bases. His office is always open to
the public in order discuss your particular issues.

[Adam Funk]

Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]

Post by Adam Funk

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor's surgery...AmE = the doctor's office

Yes

The weirdest bit is that this word is metaphorically extended to "MP's
surgery" (session at the MP's local office or room in a public
building where constituents can come talk to their MP).

In the Irish Republic that is known as a "clinic".
http://www.tonymcloughlintd.ie/clinics
Tony [McLoughlin] holds constituency clinics in his Sligo
Constituency office on a weekly bases. His office is always open to
the public in order discuss your particular issues.

That sounds less weird to me than "surgery", probably because "GPs'
surgery" still sounds a bit weird, since GPs do very little actual
surgery (i.e., operations) in their practice buildings.

[Jerry Friedman]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
In reading a novel set in the UK I decided to list the words and terms
that identify the book as being set in the UK. Spelling differences
(colour/color) were ignored and as were place references. Also
skipped were the commonplace differences like flat/apartment and
solicitor/lawyer. I also skipped "digestive biscuit" because that's
been discussed here often enough to be a commonplace difference.
Still, it sounds medicinal to me rather than something tasty.
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

OK, but I would never say "on the latch"

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor had rooms at...AmE = the doctor's office was located at

the doctor's surgery was at

...

There are still Americans who would say "the doctor's office was at",
without "located".

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 08:29:46 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
In reading a novel set in the UK I decided to list the words and terms
that identify the book as being set in the UK. Spelling differences
(colour/color) were ignored and as were place references. Also
skipped were the commonplace differences like flat/apartment and
solicitor/lawyer. I also skipped "digestive biscuit" because that's
been discussed here often enough to be a commonplace difference.
Still, it sounds medicinal to me rather than something tasty.
the door was on the latch...AmE = unlocked

OK, but I would never say "on the latch"

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor had rooms at...AmE = the doctor's office was located at

the doctor's surgery was at

Post by Tony Cooper
she lives at Number 11...AmE = her address was 11 (street name)

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
the doctor's surgery...AmE = the doctor's office

Yes

Post by Tony Cooper
he waved them through to the next room...AmE = he waved then into the
next room (waved could be "motioned")

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
when he was demobbed...AmE = when he was discharged

OK, if the book was written before about 1975. I doubt whether the youf
of today have much idea what "demobbed" means`;

Post by Tony Cooper
he had a reader's ticket to...AmE = he had a library card or a pass if
to an academic library

I don't think one would use reader's ticket for an ordinary library (if
indeed such a thing existed). Maybe OK for a no-lending library.

Post by Tony Cooper
he was in the lounge...AmE = he was in the living room

As others have said, I think "lounge" is obsolete (and was never used
in families with pretensions of being U).

Post by Tony Cooper
the firm's overheads were...AmE = the firm's overhead was (like
"math", we don't add the "s")

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
he worked as a chippie...AmE = he worked as a carpenter (Interesting
that a "chippy" is a place but a "chippie" is person)

Maybe, I don't know.

Post by Tony Cooper
she was gasping for a...AmE = she was desperate for a (a large choice
of words here, but "gasping" isn't one of them)

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
they set up an incident room...AmE = I don't think there's an AmE
term. "Incident room" is used where Scotland Yard takes over a case
from the local plods, and we don't seem to have a similar structure.

OK

Post by Tony Cooper
The last one is "messages" with the meaning of "dog poop", but I
didn't write down how that was used in the sentence.

I've never heard it used in that sense.

Post by Tony Cooper
There are, of course, other words and phrases that identify a book as
being British-written, but these are the ones in the book I just
finished.

Thank you for a full set of replies. Other replies have addressed
only specific terms.

As far as the terms being current, I haven't addressed that. I have
simply stated that these terms were used in a book published in 1994
that was set in a time period that was roughly current at the writing.

All of them are terms I have seen in other books written by British
authors, but the time settings have been varied.

I do favor British detective/crime novels. I find they are usually
tightly written, well-plotted, and believable. This genre of writing
usually avoids wildly-improbable coincidences to make the plot work,
usually avoids non-contributing plot aspects that "spice up" the book,
and do not rely on some impossible plot in which civilization is
doomed unless something is revealed or stopped in the nick of time.

I also like them because they generally add something to my knowledge
of a different culture or place.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

[ ... ]
she lives at Number 11...AmE = her address was 11 (street name)

Do you have address numbers as small as 11 in the USA? I would expect
something more like "Her address was 13754 (street name)"

I've had 1, 5, 20 and others that I've forgotten in England, and 10 in
France. The smallest number I ever had in the USA was 750 San Luis
Road, Berkeley (the family home of the Layton family, later famous in
relation to the Jonestown massacre).

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by Tony Cooper
she lives at Number 11...AmE = her address was 11 (street name)

Do you have address numbers as small as 11 in the USA? I would expect
something more like "Her address was 13754 (street name)"

Never been to New York?

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I've had 1, 5, 20 and others that I've forgotten in England, and 10 in
France. The smallest number I ever had in the USA was 750 San Luis
Road, Berkeley (the family home of the Layton family, later famous in
relation to the Jonestown massacre).

You wouldn't even be admitted to One Fifth Avenue.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 26/04/17 14:06, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
<house numbers>

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I've had 1, 5, 20 and others that I've forgotten in England, and 10 in
France. The smallest number I ever had in the USA was 750 San Luis Road,
Berkeley (the family home of the Layton family, later famous in relation
to the Jonestown massacre).

In the UK, I've lived at 1, 2, 10, 12, 14, 15, 46, 52, 69, 354, 648, and
many that I've long since forgotten. But I think 354 and 648 are my only
three-digit house numbers. 648 is, in fact, quite unusually high for a
UK address, and yet it's lower than your lowest US address.

A very brief Web search reveals the claim that a road in Solihull
(Stratford Road in Hockley Heath) goes right up to 2679. I've verified
this as best I can via Google Maps, and there is certainly a house that
has that number affixed to the garden railings, and it is the last house
on a very long road. (Nice house, too.)

2679 is extraordinarily high for the UK, but presumably in the USA it
would attract no attention at all.

[Peter T. Daniels]

Post by Richard Heathfield
<house numbers>

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I've had 1, 5, 20 and others that I've forgotten in England, and 10 in
France. The smallest number I ever had in the USA was 750 San Luis Road,
Berkeley (the family home of the Layton family, later famous in relation
to the Jonestown massacre).

In the UK, I've lived at 1, 2, 10, 12, 14, 15, 46, 52, 69, 354, 648, and
many that I've long since forgotten. But I think 354 and 648 are my only
three-digit house numbers. 648 is, in fact, quite unusually high for a
UK address, and yet it's lower than your lowest US address.
A very brief Web search reveals the claim that a road in Solihull
(Stratford Road in Hockley Heath) goes right up to 2679. I've verified
this as best I can via Google Maps, and there is certainly a house that
has that number affixed to the garden railings, and it is the last house
on a very long road. (Nice house, too.)
2679 is extraordinarily high for the UK, but presumably in the USA it
would attract no attention at all.

Since Cartesian geometry seems beyond the ken of these two Englishmen, perhaps
an explanation is in order.

Some US city street grids have an "origin" somewhere in the middle. Blocks are
numbered in each of the four directions. Often, the streets in one or both of
the axial dimensions are numbered rather than named. The block numbers correspond
to such street numbers. Thus the houses at the corners of 10th Street are
numbered 1001 and (across from it) 1002. The last houses on that block might be
numbered 1023 and 1024 (if there are 12 houses on each side of the street).
Across 11th St. from #1023 will be #1101. And so on.

Older cities do not use such a system. In Manhattan, the numbering of each
north-south avenue begins with 1 at the south end of the avenue. From Houston
Street northward (Houston essentially is the same as 1st St.), the cross-street
house numbers begin with 1 at Broadway, rising both to the east and to the west,
with a hundred house numbers per avenue block. North of 8th Street, where Fifth
Avenue starts, the dividing line is Fifth Avenue rather than Broadway.

Thus 1 East 42nd St. would be at the northeast corner of Fifth Avenue and 42nd;
1 West 42nd would be at the northwest corner of the same intersection. 101 East
42nd would be at Park Avenue. 101 West 42nd would be at Sixth Avenue.

(In practice, corner buildings are more likely to take their number from their
avenue frontage, because avenue addresses are more prestigious, in the eyes of
developers, than street addresses.)

[Cheryl]

Post by Richard Heathfield
<house numbers>

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I've had 1, 5, 20 and others that I've forgotten in England, and 10 in
France. The smallest number I ever had in the USA was 750 San Luis Road,
Berkeley (the family home of the Layton family, later famous in relation
to the Jonestown massacre).

In the UK, I've lived at 1, 2, 10, 12, 14, 15, 46, 52, 69, 354, 648, and
many that I've long since forgotten. But I think 354 and 648 are my only
three-digit house numbers. 648 is, in fact, quite unusually high for a
UK address, and yet it's lower than your lowest US address.
A very brief Web search reveals the claim that a road in Solihull
(Stratford Road in Hockley Heath) goes right up to 2679. I've verified
this as best I can via Google Maps, and there is certainly a house that
has that number affixed to the garden railings, and it is the last house
on a very long road. (Nice house, too.)
2679 is extraordinarily high for the UK, but presumably in the USA it
would attract no attention at all.

The highest street number I can remember living at was a four-digit one
in Toronto, or rather, North York as it was at the time. 6 something.
6275? Something like that. I've lived in places with no street number,
or at least not one in common use (some small places have, or had,
official street names and numbers that weren't actually used by anyone
outside some local council office). Mostly, I've lived places with three
or fewer digits in the street number.

[Tony Cooper]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 15:03:25 +0100, Richard Heathfield

Post by Richard Heathfield
<house numbers>

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I've had 1, 5, 20 and others that I've forgotten in England, and 10 in
France. The smallest number I ever had in the USA was 750 San Luis Road,
Berkeley (the family home of the Layton family, later famous in relation
to the Jonestown massacre).

In the UK, I've lived at 1, 2, 10, 12, 14, 15, 46, 52, 69, 354, 648, and
many that I've long since forgotten. But I think 354 and 648 are my only
three-digit house numbers. 648 is, in fact, quite unusually high for a
UK address, and yet it's lower than your lowest US address.
A very brief Web search reveals the claim that a road in Solihull
(Stratford Road in Hockley Heath) goes right up to 2679. I've verified
this as best I can via Google Maps, and there is certainly a house that
has that number affixed to the garden railings, and it is the last house
on a very long road. (Nice house, too.)
2679 is extraordinarily high for the UK, but presumably in the USA it
would attract no attention at all.

It would not be at all unusual in the US. US cities tend to extend
their boundaries in order to include more area in the city's tax base.
The wider the area the city limits encompass, the higher the numbers
go.