SOLVED: How to download an ISO image for Office 2007 Pro in the year 2018

[ultred ragnusen]

SOLVED: How to download an ISO image for Office 2007 Pro in the year 2018
Loading Image...

AFAIK, none of this is on the web, at least based on the results from my
searches today.

The situation is that my Win10 Pro HDD was bricked by a Microsoft Update
such that I bought a new HDD and now wish to install MS Office Pro 2007
given that I saved the 25-character product key from the old installation
(which I wrote on the case of the computer).

Googling for where to download an Office 2007 Pro ISO, I first find the
Microsoft Support site:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_install-mso_other/where-to-get-download-an-iso-image-for-office-2007/0ecbdfea-954c-46c3-a359-0cce4d09837e

The official answer seems to be:
"Microsoft no longer provides digital downloads for the Office 2007 suite.
If you need to reinstall Office 2007, request a backup disk."

That "request a backup disk" link is no longer found.
http://www.microsoft.com/office/backup/en-us/default.mspx

A second suggested link is also dead.
http://www.microsoft.com/office/downloads

A third suggested link gives options for recent but not old Office versions
https://www.microsoft.com/ja-jp/store/b/office?culture=en-US&activetab=tab%3ahomeorpersonal

A fourth suggested link comes up as an untrusted connection.
https://www2.downloadoffice2010.microsoft.com/o12/registerkey.aspx?culture=en-GB&ref=o12

That untrusted connection refers the user only to an Office 2010 download
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office?culture=en-GB&ref=o12

A fifth link brings up a current Office 2016 download web page
http://tinyurl.com/officebackuplink

A sixth link, which is a repeat, says that it will work for older s/w.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office?culture=en-US&ref=o12

But when I enter my valid 25-character code for Office 2007 Pro, it first
says "Validating your request. This may take several minutes. Do not
refresh the page or select back, doing so will cancel the request"
Loading Image...

And then "Error. Support for the product you are trying to download has
ended. Please refer back to the main page for a list of supported
products."

A sixth link says you can order a replacement from [phone]
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/replacement-cd/fb8230d4-000f-4ee7-b732-c9f8fff28bfd

A person picked up the phone who asked what product and then they put me on
permanent hold it seems... where I was eventually disconnected. I called
again and they put me on hold but said to write down this number if I got
disconnected again 800-642-7676 after which they put me on hold when,
finally, another person answered the phone.

After asking my name, he validated my 25-character Office 2007 Pro key and
asked if I wanted to use Support-LogMeInRescue.exe which I declined so he
provided the URL below.
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/01/310885730-21411266--NOA//office2010/X16-69453.exe

Unfortunately that URL simply went to the following Home Use Program page.
https://www.microsofthup.com/hupus/home.aspx
Loading Image...

So I downloaded the "logmein" applet from this web page he provided.
http://support.microsoft.com/help which took us to http://office.com/backup
Loading Image...

Running LogMeIn to give him the six-digit ID it generated gave him access
Loading Image...

Once on my system, he was able to try the same URL that he had given me.
Loading Image...

Of course, that didn't result in anything different than what I received,
so he had another person join the connection, who gave a different URL
which also failed to work on my system using the default browser setup.
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/xxxxxxxx-012SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283-X12-30283.exe
Loading Image...

Finally, as I grabbed my camera because screeenshots were not working, he
gave up and used Internet Explorer to go first to this link, which doesn't
seem to do anything:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=255141
Loading Image...

And then he went to the canonical location for Microsoft Office 2007 Pro,
which he said is a public address on the "wayback"
machine that is for anyone to use (but I redacted a few bits just in case I
understood him wrong).
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111xxxxxx/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

He downloaded to somewhere (I can't find it anymore) a file named:
X12-30196.exe
Loading Image...

Whatever that file is, it was 386 MB in size:
Loading Image...

I don't know where the file went though, as I can't find it anymore.
Loading Image...

Then he extracted the 386 MB file
Loading Image...

And when he executed it, up came a form where he entered my 25-character
product key.
Loading Image...

Then he chose "Install Now".
Loading Image...

Which installed Microsoft Office Pro 2007 after he ran the installer which
brought up a notice that "Microsoft Office 2007 Professional has been
successfully installed"
Loading Image...

And then he clicked on "Go to Office Online" which brought up an activation
wizard
Loading Image...

But the activation wizard had a communication error, when, I think, he
selected "I want to activate over the Internet", which gave the error:
"A communication error has occurred. Your request cannot be processed at
this time. Please try again in a few minutes."
Loading Image...

So he selected "I want to activate the software by telephone"
Loading Image...

Then the "Microsoft Office Professional 2007 Activation Wizard" came up
with a 54-character "Installation Code":
0xxxxx-7xxxxx-3xxxxx-2xxxxx-9xxxxx-1xxxxx-0xxxxx-2xxxxx-4xxxxx
Loading Image...

After a long while, he entered in a 42-digit "Conformation Code"
0xxxxx-2xxxxx-0xxxxx-1xxxxx-7xxxxx-5xxxxx-6xxxxx
Loading Image...

When then said it was activated.
Loading Image...

Finally he tested Microsoft Office 2007 Pro by opening up MS Word.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12.jpg

I looked for the installation file to archive but I couldn't find it, and
the original link, which was in my browser memory, times out now.

When I asked if I could communicate the URLs, the support guy said they're
public, but I wasn't sure if I can put them here, so maybe you can let me
know if they're public or not for sure, as I heard him and understood him
but it seems like the numbers may be specific to me?

Are the URLs above specific to me or generic for everyone?

If not, I can post the URL so that I benefit in the future (when my machine
crashes again as I don't know how to archive that which they downloaded and
installed) and so that others can who need a copy of MS Office 2007 that
they can activate with their own legal key.

[Big Al]

Post by ultred ragnusen
SOLVED: How to download an ISO image for Office 2007 Pro in the year 2018
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12.jpg
AFAIK, none of this is on the web, at least based on the results from my
searches today.
The situation is that my Win10 Pro HDD was bricked by a Microsoft Update
such that I bought a new HDD and now wish to install MS Office Pro 2007
given that I saved the 25-character product key from the old installation
(which I wrote on the case of the computer).
Googling for where to download an Office 2007 Pro ISO, I first find the
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_install-mso_other/where-to-get-download-an-iso-image-for-office-2007/0ecbdfea-954c-46c3-a359-0cce4d09837e
"Microsoft no longer provides digital downloads for the Office 2007 suite.
If you need to reinstall Office 2007, request a backup disk."
That "request a backup disk" link is no longer found.
http://www.microsoft.com/office/backup/en-us/default.mspx
A second suggested link is also dead.
http://www.microsoft.com/office/downloads
A third suggested link gives options for recent but not old Office versions
https://www.microsoft.com/ja-jp/store/b/office?culture=en-US&activetab=tab%3ahomeorpersonal
A fourth suggested link comes up as an untrusted connection.
https://www2.downloadoffice2010.microsoft.com/o12/registerkey.aspx?culture=en-GB&ref=o12
That untrusted connection refers the user only to an Office 2010 download
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office?culture=en-GB&ref=o12
A fifth link brings up a current Office 2016 download web page
http://tinyurl.com/officebackuplink
A sixth link, which is a repeat, says that it will work for older s/w.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office?culture=en-US&ref=o12
But when I enter my valid 25-character code for Office 2007 Pro, it first
says "Validating your request. This may take several minutes. Do not
refresh the page or select back, doing so will cancel the request"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_01.jpg
And then "Error. Support for the product you are trying to download has
ended. Please refer back to the main page for a list of supported
products."
A sixth link says you can order a replacement from [phone]
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/replacement-cd/fb8230d4-000f-4ee7-b732-c9f8fff28bfd
A person picked up the phone who asked what product and then they put me on
permanent hold it seems... where I was eventually disconnected. I called
again and they put me on hold but said to write down this number if I got
disconnected again 800-642-7676 after which they put me on hold when,
finally, another person answered the phone.
After asking my name, he validated my 25-character Office 2007 Pro key and
asked if I wanted to use Support-LogMeInRescue.exe which I declined so he
provided the URL below.
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/01/310885730-21411266--NOA//office2010/X16-69453.exe
Unfortunately that URL simply went to the following Home Use Program page.
https://www.microsofthup.com/hupus/home.aspx
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_02.jpg
So I downloaded the "logmein" applet from this web page he provided.
http://support.microsoft.com/help which took us to http://office.com/backup
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_03.jpg
Running LogMeIn to give him the six-digit ID it generated gave him access
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_04.jpg
Once on my system, he was able to try the same URL that he had given me.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_05.jpg
Of course, that didn't result in anything different than what I received,
so he had another person join the connection, who gave a different URL
which also failed to work on my system using the default browser setup.
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/xxxxxxxx-012SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283-X12-30283.exe
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10.jpg
Finally, as I grabbed my camera because screeenshots were not working, he
gave up and used Internet Explorer to go first to this link, which doesn't
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=255141
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10a.jpg
And then he went to the canonical location for Microsoft Office 2007 Pro,
which he said is a public address on the "wayback"
machine that is for anyone to use (but I redacted a few bits just in case I
understood him wrong).
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111xxxxxx/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10b.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10d.jpg
X12-30196.exe
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10c.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10e.jpg
I don't know where the file went though, as I can't find it anymore.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11.jpg
Then he extracted the 386 MB file
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11a.jpg
And when he executed it, up came a form where he entered my 25-character
product key.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11b.jpg
Then he chose "Install Now".
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11c.jpg
Which installed Microsoft Office Pro 2007 after he ran the installer which
brought up a notice that "Microsoft Office 2007 Professional has been
successfully installed"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11d.jpg
And then he clicked on "Go to Office Online" which brought up an activation
wizard
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12a.jpg
But the activation wizard had a communication error, when, I think, he
"A communication error has occurred. Your request cannot be processed at
this time. Please try again in a few minutes."
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_13.jpg
So he selected "I want to activate the software by telephone"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_14.jpg
Then the "Microsoft Office Professional 2007 Activation Wizard" came up
0xxxxx-7xxxxx-3xxxxx-2xxxxx-9xxxxx-1xxxxx-0xxxxx-2xxxxx-4xxxxx
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_15.jpg
After a long while, he entered in a 42-digit "Conformation Code"
0xxxxx-2xxxxx-0xxxxx-1xxxxx-7xxxxx-5xxxxx-6xxxxx
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_16.jpg
When then said it was activated.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_17.jpg
Finally he tested Microsoft Office 2007 Pro by opening up MS Word.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12.jpg
I looked for the installation file to archive but I couldn't find it, and
the original link, which was in my browser memory, times out now.
When I asked if I could communicate the URLs, the support guy said they're
public, but I wasn't sure if I can put them here, so maybe you can let me
know if they're public or not for sure, as I heard him and understood him
but it seems like the numbers may be specific to me?
Are the URLs above specific to me or generic for everyone?
If not, I can post the URL so that I benefit in the future (when my machine
crashes again as I don't know how to archive that which they downloaded and
installed) and so that others can who need a copy of MS Office 2007 that
they can activate with their own legal key.

The problem with those phone activation things is that your machine
generates a code that he then puts into software on his end that YOU
can't replicate. That program of his, generates a code he put in that
activates your copy. You can't replicate it.

I used to work for a company that did a similar licensing thing. That
unique program was shared only with the owner and myself. We were the
only two that could license a machine. And every time you licensed a
machine, it was a different key. He explained it to me once (quickly)
and it was a combination of drive ID + date of some master exe file +
what phase of the moon it was (kidding). but things changed from moment
to moment.

[VanguardLH]

Post by ultred ragnusen
SOLVED: How to download an ISO image for Office 2007 Pro in the year 2018
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12.jpg
AFAIK, none of this is on the web, at least based on the results from my
searches today.
The situation is that my Win10 Pro HDD was bricked by a Microsoft Update
such that I bought a new HDD and now wish to install MS Office Pro 2007
given that I saved the 25-character product key from the old installation
(which I wrote on the case of the computer).
Googling for where to download an Office 2007 Pro ISO, I first find the
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_install-mso_other/where-to-get-download-an-iso-image-for-office-2007/0ecbdfea-954c-46c3-a359-0cce4d09837e
"Microsoft no longer provides digital downloads for the Office 2007 suite.
If you need to reinstall Office 2007, request a backup disk."
That "request a backup disk" link is no longer found.
http://www.microsoft.com/office/backup/en-us/default.mspx
A second suggested link is also dead.
http://www.microsoft.com/office/downloads
A third suggested link gives options for recent but not old Office versions
https://www.microsoft.com/ja-jp/store/b/office?culture=en-US&activetab=tab%3ahomeorpersonal
A fourth suggested link comes up as an untrusted connection.
https://www2.downloadoffice2010.microsoft.com/o12/registerkey.aspx?culture=en-GB&ref=o12
That untrusted connection refers the user only to an Office 2010 download
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office?culture=en-GB&ref=o12
A fifth link brings up a current Office 2016 download web page
http://tinyurl.com/officebackuplink
A sixth link, which is a repeat, says that it will work for older s/w.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office?culture=en-US&ref=o12
But when I enter my valid 25-character code for Office 2007 Pro, it first
says "Validating your request. This may take several minutes. Do not
refresh the page or select back, doing so will cancel the request"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_01.jpg
And then "Error. Support for the product you are trying to download has
ended. Please refer back to the main page for a list of supported
products."
A sixth link says you can order a replacement from [phone]
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/replacement-cd/fb8230d4-000f-4ee7-b732-c9f8fff28bfd
A person picked up the phone who asked what product and then they put me on
permanent hold it seems... where I was eventually disconnected. I called
again and they put me on hold but said to write down this number if I got
disconnected again 800-642-7676 after which they put me on hold when,
finally, another person answered the phone.
After asking my name, he validated my 25-character Office 2007 Pro key and
asked if I wanted to use Support-LogMeInRescue.exe which I declined so he
provided the URL below.
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/01/310885730-21411266--NOA//office2010/X16-69453.exe
Unfortunately that URL simply went to the following Home Use Program page.
https://www.microsofthup.com/hupus/home.aspx
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_02.jpg
So I downloaded the "logmein" applet from this web page he provided.
http://support.microsoft.com/help which took us to http://office.com/backup
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_03.jpg
Running LogMeIn to give him the six-digit ID it generated gave him access
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_04.jpg
Once on my system, he was able to try the same URL that he had given me.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_05.jpg
Of course, that didn't result in anything different than what I received,
so he had another person join the connection, who gave a different URL
which also failed to work on my system using the default browser setup.
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/xxxxxxxx-012SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283-X12-30283.exe
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10.jpg
Finally, as I grabbed my camera because screeenshots were not working, he
gave up and used Internet Explorer to go first to this link, which doesn't
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=255141
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10a.jpg
And then he went to the canonical location for Microsoft Office 2007 Pro,
which he said is a public address on the "wayback"
machine that is for anyone to use (but I redacted a few bits just in case I
understood him wrong).
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111xxxxxx/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10b.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10d.jpg
X12-30196.exe
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10c.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10e.jpg
I don't know where the file went though, as I can't find it anymore.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11.jpg
Then he extracted the 386 MB file
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11a.jpg
And when he executed it, up came a form where he entered my 25-character
product key.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11b.jpg
Then he chose "Install Now".
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11c.jpg
Which installed Microsoft Office Pro 2007 after he ran the installer which
brought up a notice that "Microsoft Office 2007 Professional has been
successfully installed"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11d.jpg
And then he clicked on "Go to Office Online" which brought up an activation
wizard
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12a.jpg
But the activation wizard had a communication error, when, I think, he
"A communication error has occurred. Your request cannot be processed at
this time. Please try again in a few minutes."
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_13.jpg
So he selected "I want to activate the software by telephone"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_14.jpg
Then the "Microsoft Office Professional 2007 Activation Wizard" came up
0xxxxx-7xxxxx-3xxxxx-2xxxxx-9xxxxx-1xxxxx-0xxxxx-2xxxxx-4xxxxx
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_15.jpg
After a long while, he entered in a 42-digit "Conformation Code"
0xxxxx-2xxxxx-0xxxxx-1xxxxx-7xxxxx-5xxxxx-6xxxxx
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_16.jpg
When then said it was activated.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_17.jpg
Finally he tested Microsoft Office 2007 Pro by opening up MS Word.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12.jpg
I looked for the installation file to archive but I couldn't find it, and
the original link, which was in my browser memory, times out now.
When I asked if I could communicate the URLs, the support guy said they're
public, but I wasn't sure if I can put them here, so maybe you can let me
know if they're public or not for sure, as I heard him and understood him
but it seems like the numbers may be specific to me?
Are the URLs above specific to me or generic for everyone?
If not, I can post the URL so that I benefit in the future (when my machine
crashes again as I don't know how to archive that which they downloaded and
installed) and so that others can who need a copy of MS Office 2007 that
they can activate with their own legal key.

A lot less hassle if you had not lost the install CD for Office 2007.
If you ever find it, make a duplicate and store elsewhere.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by VanguardLH
A lot less hassle if you had not lost the install CD for Office 2007.
If you ever find it, make a duplicate and store elsewhere.

I agree, but it's nice to let people know that Microsoft will literally
download, install, and activate the Office 2007 Pro software for you.

Now my main problem is how to get Microsoft to recover the Windows 10 Pro
their Windows Update bricked.

Loading Image...

[Mike S]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by VanguardLH
A lot less hassle if you had not lost the install CD for Office 2007.
If you ever find it, make a duplicate and store elsewhere.

I agree, but it's nice to let people know that Microsoft will literally
download, install, and activate the Office 2007 Pro software for you.
Now my main problem is how to get Microsoft to recover the Windows 10 Pro
their Windows Update bricked.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/support_email.jpg

Are you saying Windows physically damaged your hdd, or is it possible
you could simply no longer boot from it?

If it's a boot issue you might try doing a startup repair, system
restore, or Reset the PC (keeps personal files).
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install-winpc/boot-from-dvdusb-to-repair-windows-10/cd11a835-bbf4-484e-8e29-bf384a45ec44

Or if that doesn't work you can download a w10 ISO to burn to a DVD
(free), boot from it, and run the Startup Repair that way. Once you boot
windows you can run setup.exe on the DVD and reinstall all system files
while keeping your programs, settings and data intact.
https://wccftech.com/create-bootable-windows-10-dvd/

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Mike S
Are you saying Windows physically damaged your hdd, or is it possible
you could simply no longer boot from it?

There is absolutely no doubt (based on my tests) that the HDD is undamaged
and that the only problem is that an errant Microsoft Windows 10 update
bricked the operating system.
Loading Image...

Post by Mike S
If it's a boot issue you might try doing a startup repair, system
restore, or Reset the PC (keeps personal files).
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install-winpc/boot-from-dvdusb-to-repair-windows-10/cd11a835-bbf4-484e-8e29-bf384a45ec44
http://youtu.be/q4rp--5xWSg

Trust me, since 6:29am on the 25th of January, I have spent umpteen hours
running all the possible options that come up in the default Microsoft
Windows 10 recovery console, as had Microsoft telephone tier 2 tech support
at [phone].
Loading Image...

That was the last time I was able to boot...where three days in a row, the
Windows 10 Update failed, and when the PC booted overnight, it never came
back.
Loading Image...

Post by Mike S
Or if that doesn't work you can download a w10 ISO to burn to a DVD
(free), boot from it, and run the Startup Repair that way.

The Microsoft level2 tech created a Windows 10 DVD on a good Windows 10
machine but the repair (see bottom left) didn't work.
Loading Image...

Post by Mike S
Once you boot
windows you can run setup.exe on the DVD and reinstall all system files
while keeping your programs, settings and data intact.
https://wccftech.com/create-bootable-windows-10-dvd/'

Thanks for the advice, but Windows bricked itself, where we tried resetting
the OS using the recovery console.
Loading Image...

It failed.
Loading Image...

Currently, I'm working with the various suggested recovery mechanisms:
* TestDisk
* Recuva
* PhotoRec
* DDRescue
* Knoppix
etc.

[Shadow]

On Sat, 24 Feb 2018 10:04:01 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Mike S
Are you saying Windows physically damaged your hdd, or is it possible
you could simply no longer boot from it?

There is absolutely no doubt (based on my tests) that the HDD is undamaged
and that the only problem is that an errant Microsoft Windows 10 update
bricked the operating system.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/win10update_010.jpg

Post by Mike S
If it's a boot issue you might try doing a startup repair, system
restore, or Reset the PC (keeps personal files).
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-windows_install-winpc/boot-from-dvdusb-to-repair-windows-10/cd11a835-bbf4-484e-8e29-bf384a45ec44
http://youtu.be/q4rp--5xWSg

Trust me, since 6:29am on the 25th of January, I have spent umpteen hours
running all the possible options that come up in the default Microsoft
Windows 10 recovery console, as had Microsoft telephone tier 2 tech support
at [phone].
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/system_restore.jpg
That was the last time I was able to boot...where three days in a row, the
Windows 10 Update failed, and when the PC booted overnight, it never came
back.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/startup_repair.jpg

Post by Mike S
Or if that doesn't work you can download a w10 ISO to burn to a DVD
(free), boot from it, and run the Startup Repair that way.

The Microsoft level2 tech created a Windows 10 DVD on a good Windows 10
machine but the repair (see bottom left) didn't work.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/win10dvd_repair.jpg

Post by Mike S
Once you boot
windows you can run setup.exe on the DVD and reinstall all system files
while keeping your programs, settings and data intact.
https://wccftech.com/create-bootable-windows-10-dvd/'

Thanks for the advice, but Windows bricked itself, where we tried resetting
the OS using the recovery console.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/reset_pc_02.jpg
It failed.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/reset_pc_04.jpg
* TestDisk
* Recuva
* PhotoRec
* DDRescue
* Knoppix
etc.

Have you ever thought about dual booting ?
You could have a simple Linux Dist ( Mint or even Debian) on a
partition and boot into that when your "favorite" OS fails.
[]'s

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Shadow
Have you ever thought about dual booting ?
You could have a simple Linux Dist ( Mint or even Debian) on a
partition and boot into that when your "favorite" OS fails.

In the future, I'm going to be more careful about forcing a DVD-sized
directory size, which is really what slows me down on backing up data since
a 4.7GB DVD only holds, realistically, about 4.3GB to 4.l4 GB of data but
my data hierarchy is always larger than that. So by forcing a 4.3GB
directory size, I'll not have to dance with DVDs at backup time (yes, I
know all about USB drives - but they're less reliable than is DVD,
particularly from Microsoft-induced corruption when you remove them without
shutting them down (ask me how I know this)).

So the first part of the plan moving forward is to set up a dozen 4.3GB
limited directories, which can be backed up easily to DVD once they're
filled.

The second part of the plan, moving forward, is to fall back to the tricks
during the old days of unreliable Windows, where I'll format a C: partition
of about 100GB, which should suffice for the operating system mandatory
stuff.

Then I'll put all my "stuff" (programs, data, and menus) on the D: drive.

I've done the GRUB dual-boot stuff with Linux in the past, but I find
myself booting to Windows most of the time, where a VirtualBox Ubuntu works
just fine for when I need Linux (e.g., for file manipulation).

Since in an emergency I can boot to a Knoppix DVD to recover my Windows
data when Windows screws itself up, I don't see much of an advantage of
having the Linux GRUB method always slowing down the boot process. But it's
a good idea if I used Linux more often these days. I might try it again
because, if I use Ubuntu, I'm told the latest release finally ditched the
Unity abomination, so I won't have to set up KDE again (where KDE is
fantastically powerful, but it's a lot of settings to deal with).

I have an appointment with Microsoft Geniuses (or whatever they're called)
this week to have them look at the system, where the technical support
people have 'promised' that they know more than we do (we'll see, as my
experience at the Apple Genius Bar is that they know a lot less than we do
when it comes to troubleshooting).

I'll let you know, but I've saved all the data except the few dozen files
(almost all of which are photos) which have "splicing" errors when I mount
the HDD in Knoppix.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <p71i0c$do2$***@gioia.aioe.org>, ultred ragnusen
<***@ragnusen.com> writes:
[]

Post by ultred ragnusen
So the first part of the plan moving forward is to set up a dozen 4.3GB
limited directories, which can be backed up easily to DVD once they're
filled.

[]
How do you set up a directory that will limit itself in size - or do you
mean you will manually monitor them?

[Paul]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by ultred ragnusen
So the first part of the plan moving forward is to set up a dozen 4.3GB
limited directories, which can be backed up easily to DVD once they're
filled.

[]
How do you set up a directory that will limit itself in size - or do you
mean you will manually monitor them?

A more important question is *why* you're doing that.

You can back up using regular backup software, and
make the folder or file any size you like.

Then, using 7ZIP (or other ZIP packages also have this feature),
you can make a .zip or .7z in "Store" mode. That means no
compression and it's almost like the file is just a TAR
(tape archive) style of file.

Next, look for a tick box in the interface, that says
it's going to "segment" the .zip . It will make .zip.01
.zip.02 .zip.03, and each file is no larger than the limit
you set. If you made them "DVD size", then each file would
be suitable for tossing onto a DVD.

Later, you copy them off into a staging folder,
and "unzip" them creating a monolithic folder
or file you started with.

You're not forced to use software that segments
and writes to DVD as your only tool. You can do
hard drive style backups, and segment them as
a separate step, then transfer to DVD.

For maximum flexibility, it helps to have a large
hard drive, to "massage" data in this way, and
change it to suit the situation.

And you don't have to use DVD either. Bluray
are available in 25GB and 100GB size. There's
even an MDisc version of 100GB BR storage media.
But you'll have to be a rich guy to afford media
like that, as the manufacturer has decreed that
even though the manufacturing cost is the same, the
media (byte for byte) must be as expensive as DVD.
You could easily end up spending $100 to back up
a small hard drive doing that. DVD has the advantage
of granularity, but also with the need to "keep
flippin the discs in" to finish the job. Which
I find... maddening.

Paul

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Paul
A more important question is *why* you're doing that.

You have to remember that I'm not backing up what /most/ people back up.
Most people back up the "image" and they back it up to a large HDD of some
sort.

I'm backing up individual data files, and they go to a DVD disc.

For me, rsync would work just fine, and in fact, some day, I'll figure out
what works like rsync on Windows since that's the most efficient.

Post by Paul
You can back up using regular backup software, and
make the folder or file any size you like.

Nope. The last thing I want is to have /multiple/ discs where I've been
though that drill of one third your stuff on disc 1 and one third on disc 2
and one third on disc 3 where you have to pop in all the discs just to find
what you're lookign for, and Lord help you if you lose one of the discs in
the sequence as the entire sequence is screwed up.

Maybe the software is better nowadays, but I simply want to back up stuff
to DVD /WITHOUT/ having to worry about it spilling over from disc1 to
disc2.

The easiest way to do that, AFAIK, is to keep the data in separate 4.3GB
directories, where the directory can be backed up to its own DVD disc.

Post by Paul
Then, using 7ZIP (or other ZIP packages also have this feature),
you can make a .zip or .7z in "Store" mode. That means no
compression and it's almost like the file is just a TAR
(tape archive) style of file.

I'm sick of compressed files not uncompressing when you need them.
I'm an old man. I am sick of all the fancy solutions.
I want to keep it simple. KISS simple.

One directory, one DVD.

Post by Paul
Next, look for a tick box in the interface, that says
it's going to "segment" the .zip .

Yikes. That's exactly what I wish to avoid.

Post by Paul
It will make .zip.01
.zip.02 .zip.03, and each file is no larger than the limit
you set. If you made them "DVD size", then each file would
be suitable for tossing onto a DVD.

Yuck. You don't know how many times I've been burned by crap like that.

Post by Paul
Later, you copy them off into a staging folder,
and "unzip" them creating a monolithic folder
or file you started with.

It's been a long time since I deallt with stitching files back together.
Been there. Done that. Don't wanna ever do it again. :)

Post by Paul
You're not forced to use software that segments
and writes to DVD as your only tool. You can do
hard drive style backups, and segment them as
a separate step, then transfer to DVD.

Nope. I don't want anything manual other than the minimum, which, with my
KISS method, is simply that Windows won't let me put more than a DVD's
amount of data into any directory as shown in this screenshot I just made
to show X: Y: and Z: drives, each limited to DVD sizes (where I was
experimenting with the final size).
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/27/veracrypt_virtual_drive.jpg

Post by Paul
For maximum flexibility, it helps to have a large
hard drive, to "massage" data in this way, and
change it to suit the situation.

At the moment, since the original terabyte HDD had its OS bricked by
Microsoft, I now have two terabyte HDDs, so I have more space than I know
what to do with, so I might look up how to RAID them.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/27/mounted_file_system_2.jpg

Post by Paul
And you don't have to use DVD either. Bluray
are available in 25GB and 100GB size.

I'm fine with low tech DVD. I don't have a blueray burner, although the
grandkids have a playstation 3 that I think is blueray in the game room.

Post by Paul
There's
even an MDisc version of 100GB BR storage media.

DVD is old and reliable. We all tried those blue zip drives in the days of
old, and we can't read ANY of it nowadays.

Post by Paul
But you'll have to be a rich guy to afford media
like that, as the manufacturer has decreed that
even though the manufacturing cost is the same, the
media (byte for byte) must be as expensive as DVD.

DVD is about 25 cents a disc, as I recall - which is fine by me.
The real thing is that I don't want fancy (like those zip contraptions we
all used in the past) which just don't work ten years from now. Nor hard
disc drives that will fail in the future or need proprietary power cords.

Been there too many times and lost the bet too many times already.
Nothing fancy for me.
Just old style DVDs.

Post by Paul
You could easily end up spending $100 to back up
a small hard drive doing that. DVD has the advantage
of granularity, but also with the need to "keep
flippin the discs in" to finish the job. Which
I find... maddening.

That's why I keep one directory to a DVD size.
When the directory gets full, I back it up.
Or so I should! :)

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 21:14:17 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Paul
A more important question is *why* you're doing that.

You have to remember that I'm not backing up what /most/ people back up.
Most people back up the "image" and they back it up to a large HDD of some
sort.

There are multiple good reasons why that's the most popular destination
for backups. It doesn't matter *what* you're backing up: disk volume
images, partitions, individual files, whatever. A hard drive is going to
be the most convenient.

Post by ultred ragnusen
I'm backing up individual data files, and they go to a DVD disc.
For me, rsync would work just fine, and in fact, some day, I'll figure out
what works like rsync on Windows since that's the most efficient.

See above for what others do. ;-)

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Paul
You can back up using regular backup software, and
make the folder or file any size you like.

Nope. The last thing I want is to have /multiple/ discs where I've been
though that drill of one third your stuff on disc 1 and one third on disc 2
and one third on disc 3 where you have to pop in all the discs just to find
what you're lookign for, and Lord help you if you lose one of the discs in
the sequence as the entire sequence is screwed up.

You'll always have multiple DVD's, so unless you have some kind of TOC
system you'll still be sticking discs in until you find the one you
need.

Post by ultred ragnusen
Maybe the software is better nowadays, but I simply want to back up stuff
to DVD /WITHOUT/ having to worry about it spilling over from disc1 to
disc2.

Given your stated goal, it sounds like you'll want to avoid using
optical media and move to hard drive(s).

Post by ultred ragnusen
The easiest way to do that, AFAIK, is to keep the data in separate 4.3GB
directories, where the directory can be backed up to its own DVD disc.

Ugh! From anyone else, I'd suspect a prank, but you have a long history
of taking the long way around the barn so I think you're serious. Now
that you have two sizable hard drives, you have everything you need to
start making proper backups, where proper means no DVDs are involved.

Post by ultred ragnusen
I don't want anything manual other than the minimum, which, with my
KISS method, is simply that Windows won't let me put more than a DVD's
amount of data into any directory as shown in this screenshot I just made
to show X: Y: and Z: drives, each limited to DVD sizes (where I was
experimenting with the final size).

You realize, I suppose, that your claim of wanting to keep things simple
is in direct contradiction to your multi-virtual-folder and multi-DVD
approach. You've gone out of your way to make it as complicated as
possible while claiming to want the opposite.

Post by ultred ragnusen
At the moment, since the original terabyte HDD had its OS bricked by
Microsoft, I now have two terabyte HDDs, so I have more space than I know
what to do with

I have a suggestion. ;-)

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Char Jackson
There are multiple good reasons why that's the most popular destination
for backups. It doesn't matter *what* you're backing up: disk volume
images, partitions, individual files, whatever. A hard drive is going to
be the most convenient.

Yes. And like a battery-based jumper system for a car, the HDD that you
back up to suffers from the same weaknesses as the HDD that you are backing
up.

But, we all agree, it's easy, hence it's more likely to be done.

And that's the important point, isn't it?

Post by Char Jackson
You'll always have multiple DVD's, so unless you have some kind of TOC
system you'll still be sticking discs in until you find the one you
need.

That's only partially true that you'll be flipping DVD media. I learned
long ago to label storage media appropriately, so that you know almost
exactly what's on that storage media, at least down to the date and type of
content.

Post by Char Jackson
Given your stated goal, it sounds like you'll want to avoid using
optical media and move to hard drive(s).

What I'd love is for a SSD to be as inexpensive as DVD.

Post by Char Jackson
Ugh! From anyone else, I'd suspect a prank, but you have a long history
of taking the long way around the barn so I think you're serious. Now
that you have two sizable hard drives, you have everything you need to
start making proper backups, where proper means no DVDs are involved.

Your point is valid. Except that the only safe HDD is a HDD outside the
computer (e.g., from viruses), and the only safe HDD outside a computer is
NOT a USB HDD (for stated reasons).

Post by Char Jackson
You realize, I suppose, that your claim of wanting to keep things simple
is in direct contradiction to your multi-virtual-folder and multi-DVD
approach. You've gone out of your way to make it as complicated as
possible while claiming to want the opposite.

Your point is valid that sheer numbers may confuse many people, but for me,
each DVD disk has the advantage that it will never crash, although it has
its own frailties, as we all know.

Post by Char Jackson

Post by ultred ragnusen
At the moment, since the original terabyte HDD had its OS bricked by
Microsoft, I now have two terabyte HDDs, so I have more space than I know
what to do with

I have a suggestion. ;-)

Yes. Backup. Except that it's /inside/ the computer, unless I disconnect
the cable /after/ the backup, which is easily enough done so that a virus
can't get to it.

[Ken Blake]

On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 22:37:22 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Char Jackson
I have a suggestion. ;-)

Yes. Backup. Except that it's /inside/ the computer, unless I disconnect
the cable /after/ the backup, which is easily enough done so that a virus
can't get to it.

Yes, that protects against some problems such as viruses. But it
doesn't protect against theft of the computer.

A much better solution is buying an inexpensive ($10 or so) external
USB case for it, removing it from the computer, and putting it in the
case. That's also much easier to use than it is to disconnect an
internal cable.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Ken Blake

Post by ultred ragnusen
Yes. Backup. Except that it's /inside/ the computer, unless I disconnect
the cable /after/ the backup, which is easily enough done so that a virus
can't get to it.

Yes, that protects against some problems such as viruses. But it
doesn't protect against theft of the computer.

I'm very glad that you brought up your valid points, as I am starting to
/like/ the idea of just disconnecting the SATA cable that I bought at Fryes
this week, which is, interestingly at a meter, about 10 times longer than
it needs to be - but - with that length - I can more easily disconnect it
after a backup.

So I'm kind'a liking your suggestion of backing up to the spare HDD (which
I don't know what else I'll do with anyway), and then disconnecting one or
both of the SATA cables.

I would assume that either of the two cables on the SATA HDD would be fine
to disconnect to isolate the HDD after use ... would you concur?

Post by Ken Blake
A much better solution is buying an inexpensive ($10 or so) external
USB case for it, removing it from the computer, and putting it in the
case. That's also much easier to use than it is to disconnect an
internal cable.

USB connections to Windows have their own horrid frailties which I'd rather
not tempt fate upon ever again!

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Ken Blake

Post by ultred ragnusen
Yes. Backup. Except that it's /inside/ the computer, unless I disconnect
the cable /after/ the backup, which is easily enough done so that a virus
can't get to it.

Yes, that protects against some problems such as viruses. But it
doesn't protect against theft of the computer.

I'm very glad that you brought up your valid points, as I am starting to
/like/ the idea of just disconnecting the SATA cable that I bought at Fryes
this week, which is, interestingly at a meter, about 10 times longer than
it needs to be - but - with that length - I can more easily disconnect it
after a backup.
So I'm kind'a liking your suggestion of backing up to the spare HDD (which
I don't know what else I'll do with anyway), and then disconnecting one or
both of the SATA cables.
I would assume that either of the two cables on the SATA HDD would be fine
to disconnect to isolate the HDD after use ... would you concur?

Post by Ken Blake
A much better solution is buying an inexpensive ($10 or so) external
USB case for it, removing it from the computer, and putting it in the
case. That's also much easier to use than it is to disconnect an
internal cable.

USB connections to Windows have their own horrid frailties which I'd rather
not tempt fate upon ever again!

One of the 2 cables is a power cable, Pulling either one will isolate
the drive.

Rene

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 09:42:24 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Ken Blake
A much better solution is buying an inexpensive ($10 or so) external
USB case for it, removing it from the computer, and putting it in the
case. That's also much easier to use than it is to disconnect an
internal cable.

USB connections to Windows have their own horrid frailties which I'd rather
not tempt fate upon ever again!

Once again, I completely disagree. I've done it umpteen times on
umpteen computers and never had a single problem. In fact, a backup an
external USB hard drive is going on right now, as I'm typing this
message.

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by Ken Blake
On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 09:42:24 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Ken Blake
A much better solution is buying an inexpensive ($10 or so) external
USB case for it, removing it from the computer, and putting it in the
case. That's also much easier to use than it is to disconnect an
internal cable.

USB connections to Windows have their own horrid frailties which I'd rather
not tempt fate upon ever again!

Once again, I completely disagree. I've done it umpteen times on
umpteen computers and never had a single problem. In fact, a backup an
external USB hard drive is going on right now, as I'm typing this
message.

Been using USB external drives for years with no problems.

Rene

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by Rene Lamontagne

Post by Ken Blake
On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 09:42:24 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Ken Blake
A much better solution is buying an inexpensive ($10 or so) external
USB case for it, removing it from the computer, and putting it in the
case. That's also much easier to use than it is to disconnect an
internal cable.

USB connections to Windows have their own horrid frailties which I'd rather
not tempt fate upon ever again!

Once again, I completely disagree. I've done it umpteen times on
umpteen computers and never had a single problem. In fact, a backup an
external USB hard drive is going on right now, as I'm typing this
message.

Been using USB external drives for years with no problems.
Rene

I might add, not only for backups but for important archive material Also.

Rene

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I might add, not only for backups but for important archive material Also.

Do you never have a power interruption when you back up your data to those
frail and vulnerable USB drives?

I hear both what you and Ken said, but you provide false promises, since it
is a well-known fact that I'm too experienced to not know about, but which
you seem to be ignoring.

It's /fine/ that you never had any problems, just like it's fine that you
leave your chainsaw running all day in the nursery and your kids never cut
their fingers off ... but there are some things that are known facts that
are real, and where you do a disservice to others by denying the obvious.

If you have a power or data interruption when using a USB drive on Windows,
you /definitely/ risk corruption of the HDD contents. Period.

If you wish to ignore or downplay that bona fide fact, so be it, but I will
remind other that I'm too experienced to believe that what you say
ameliorates that very real risk.

If you still with to ignore or downlplay well known facts (known to me
empirically), I will dig up references but I'll only go to that trouble if
you (or Ken) subsequently deny the veracity of my words.

To be sure, I do not mean to be combative in the least ... I simply mean to
be factual and honest with those facts.

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I might add, not only for backups but for important archive material Also.

Do you never have a power interruption when you back up your data to those
frail and vulnerable USB drives?

One seven minute downtime in 2 years.

Would your internal Sata drive keep running during a power outage??
You must have discovered perpetual motion if they do.

Post by ultred ragnusen
I hear both what you and Ken said, but you provide false promises, since it
is a well-known fact that I'm too experienced to not know about, but which
you seem to be ignoring.

I don't provide any promises, I'm just telling what works fine for me,
Other people can make their own choices.

Your Experienced!!! At What???

Post by ultred ragnusen
It's /fine/ that you never had any problems, just like it's fine that you
leave your chainsaw running all day in the nursery and your kids never cut
their fingers off ... but there are some things that are known facts that
are real, and where you do a disservice to others by denying the obvious.

That's a piss poor analogy if I ever heard one.

Post by ultred ragnusen
If you have a power or data interruption when using a USB drive on Windows,
you /definitely/ risk corruption of the HDD contents. Period.

Versus a Sata drive which runs on air ?

Post by ultred ragnusen
If you wish to ignore or downplay that bona fide fact, so be it, but I will
remind other that I'm too experienced to believe that what you say
ameliorates that very real risk.
If you still with to ignore or downlplay well known facts (known to me
empirically), I will dig up references but I'll only go to that trouble if
you (or Ken) subsequently deny the veracity of my words.

I don't need your references.

Post by ultred ragnusen
To be sure, I do not mean to be combative in the least ... I simply mean to
be factual and honest with those facts.

Neither I, but you brought this on to yourself.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Rene Lamontagne
One seven minute downtime in 2 years.
Would your internal Sata drive keep running during a power outage??
You must have discovered perpetual motion if they do.

As usual, you bring up a valid point, but the SATA-power question doesn't
really doesn't change the fact that you don't pull your SATA drive out of
the port and its cables don't get knocked or pulled out without thinking
about it consciously and opening up the case of the computer (which isn't
gonna realistically happen).

Having noted that huge difference, I would like you to expound though, on
that fact which you noted, which is what does happen when, say, the power
goes out when a SATA drive is being written to by Windows?

Does /that/ (admittedly rare) occurrence chance corruption of the entire
disk (which is what I've seen with USB drives)?

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I don't provide any promises, I'm just telling what works fine for me,
Other people can make their own choices.

As long as you note, realistically, that if you improperly disconnect USB
drives in Windows, there is a reasonably high chance of corruption, I'm ok
with you stating that leaving the chainsaw in the nursery never hurt your
kids.

Post by Rene Lamontagne
Your Experienced!!! At What???

Data corruption. If you want, I can even dig up the threads, but the last
time I trusted a USB drive for backup was years ago.

Post by Rene Lamontagne
That's a piss poor analogy if I ever heard one.

I agree that it's more emphatic than it needs to be, but my point was
simply that the fact you never had an accident doesn't mean that riding a
motorcycle is more dangerous than driving a SUV.

A USB drive is far more dangerous than most other types of drives with
respect to operating-system induced corruption. That's a fact, which we can
debate the percentage of danger of, but which is a fact nonetheless, just
as riding a motorcycle is inherently more dangerous than is driving a car.

Post by Rene Lamontagne

Post by ultred ragnusen
If you have a power or data interruption when using a USB drive on Windows,
you /definitely/ risk corruption of the HDD contents. Period.

Versus a Sata drive which runs on air ?

Air is good. I love air. Whatever suggestions you can impart for backing up
over the air is good for me and good for the tribal knowledge.

I don't disagree with any of your statements - I only disagree with your
assessment of risk from those frail USB drives.

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I don't need your references.

Good. I didn't want to have to dig up the obvious. :)

Post by Rene Lamontagne

Post by ultred ragnusen
To be sure, I do not mean to be combative in the least ... I simply mean to
be factual and honest with those facts.

Neither I, but you brought this on to yourself.

We agree on almost everything other than the risk assessment of those frail
USB drives. Let's leave it at that, because I've been burned and you have
not been burned, so you haven't sworn off what I have.

It's sort of like someone having been burned by cheap Chinese brake discs,
who swears them off, even though someone else does just fine with them.

I would like to know more about how you set up air SATA because that's a
good idea, as long as it's feasible. Do you mean over the Wi-Fi LAN?

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Rene Lamontagne
One seven minute downtime in 2 years.
Would your internal Sata drive keep running during a power outage??
You must have discovered perpetual motion if they do.

As usual, you bring up a valid point, but the SATA-power question doesn't
really doesn't change the fact that you don't pull your SATA drive out of
the port and its cables don't get knocked or pulled out without thinking
about it consciously and opening up the case of the computer (which isn't
gonna realistically happen).
Having noted that huge difference, I would like you to expound though, on
that fact which you noted, which is what does happen when, say, the power
goes out when a SATA drive is being written to by Windows?
Does /that/ (admittedly rare) occurrence chance corruption of the entire
disk (which is what I've seen with USB drives)?

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I don't provide any promises, I'm just telling what works fine for me,
Other people can make their own choices.

As long as you note, realistically, that if you improperly disconnect USB
drives in Windows, there is a reasonably high chance of corruption, I'm ok
with you stating that leaving the chainsaw in the nursery never hurt your
kids.

Post by Rene Lamontagne
Your Experienced!!! At What???

Data corruption. If you want, I can even dig up the threads, but the last
time I trusted a USB drive for backup was years ago.

Post by Rene Lamontagne
That's a piss poor analogy if I ever heard one.

I agree that it's more emphatic than it needs to be, but my point was
simply that the fact you never had an accident doesn't mean that riding a
motorcycle is more dangerous than driving a SUV.
A USB drive is far more dangerous than most other types of drives with
respect to operating-system induced corruption. That's a fact, which we can
debate the percentage of danger of, but which is a fact nonetheless, just
as riding a motorcycle is inherently more dangerous than is driving a car.

Post by Rene Lamontagne

Post by ultred ragnusen
If you have a power or data interruption when using a USB drive on Windows,
you /definitely/ risk corruption of the HDD contents. Period.

Versus a Sata drive which runs on air ?

Air is good. I love air. Whatever suggestions you can impart for backing up
over the air is good for me and good for the tribal knowledge.
I don't disagree with any of your statements - I only disagree with your
assessment of risk from those frail USB drives.

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I don't need your references.

Good. I didn't want to have to dig up the obvious. :)

Post by Rene Lamontagne

Post by ultred ragnusen
To be sure, I do not mean to be combative in the least ... I simply mean to
be factual and honest with those facts.

Neither I, but you brought this on to yourself.

We agree on almost everything other than the risk assessment of those frail
USB drives. Let's leave it at that, because I've been burned and you have
not been burned, so you haven't sworn off what I have.
It's sort of like someone having been burned by cheap Chinese brake discs,
who swears them off, even though someone else does just fine with them.
I would like to know more about how you set up air SATA because that's a
good idea, as long as it's feasible. Do you mean over the Wi-Fi LAN?

I don't know where you get this *frail* USB drive from, My external USB
drives are the same Seagate 1 terabyte drives as my internal Sata
Seagate drives with a different interface.
The air thing was sarcasm of a sort.

Rene

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I don't know where you get this *frail* USB drive from, My external USB
drives are the same Seagate 1 terabyte drives as my internal Sata
Seagate drives with a different interface.
The air thing was sarcasm of a sort.

It's not the drive that's frail, it's the USB to Microsoft part that's
frail.

Anyway, we've beaten this to death where you're not as experienced as I am
with USB drives being corrupted, that's all.

It's OK. I wish I were you. I am not as innocent anymore, like a woman who
has been raped isn't innocent anymore. I'm glad you're untouched. I really
am.

Anyway, just by way of update, I tried to create a dual-boot of Ubuntu
17.10 but it failed to even /find/ the new boot drive. It wanted to install
/only/ to the old boot drive (which is odd, because that wasn't connected
to SATA 1 as the actual boot drive).

I'm working on that, but in the process, I see that Windows has vastly
polluted my brand new drive with garbage, so I'll work in figuring why
Windows does that, and what I can do to clean it up.

Since that's a different topic, I'll open a separate thread so that the
tribal knowledge is kept separate.

[Char Jackson]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I don't know where you get this *frail* USB drive from, My external USB
drives are the same Seagate 1 terabyte drives as my internal Sata
Seagate drives with a different interface.
The air thing was sarcasm of a sort.

It's not the drive that's frail, it's the USB to Microsoft part that's
frail.

My best, most sincere, advice would be to examine your personal
behaviors regarding disconnection of USB drives and correct what you've
been doing wrong. There's a reason why you have this issue and others
don't.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Char Jackson

Post by ultred ragnusen
It's not the drive that's frail, it's the USB to Microsoft part that's
frail.

My best, most sincere, advice would be to examine your personal
behaviors regarding disconnection of USB drives and correct what you've
been doing wrong. There's a reason why you have this issue and others
don't.

Thank you for that sincere advice, which is sort of like telling a woman
who has been raped to not go outside at night near the bars wearing a short
dress - which is good - and sincere advice - because otherwise, she runs
the risk of being raped.

Your advice is so good that I /already/ follow your advice, in that
whenever I use a USB device, I make /sure/ not to wear that short dress, in
that I take the extra time and energy to click through the multi-step
process of disconnecting it properly in /software/ first, and then I
physically unplug the drive.

I've still been raped - so I will always carry that fear with me - where
latent fear is a natural and healthy result of such USB experiences.

So we do agree:
a. USB runs the risk of corruption, unless ...
b. You properly disconnect it EVERY TIME you use it.

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Char Jackson

Post by ultred ragnusen
It's not the drive that's frail, it's the USB to Microsoft part that's
frail.

My best, most sincere, advice would be to examine your personal
behaviors regarding disconnection of USB drives and correct what you've
been doing wrong. There's a reason why you have this issue and others
don't.

Thank you for that sincere advice, which is sort of like telling a woman
who has been raped to not go outside at night near the bars wearing a short
dress - which is good - and sincere advice - because otherwise, she runs
the risk of being raped.

I'm not

Post by ultred ragnusen
Your advice is so good that I /already/ follow your advice, in that
whenever I use a USB device, I make /sure/ not to wear that short dress, in
that I take the extra time and energy to click through the multi-step
process of disconnecting it properly in /software/ first, and then I
physically unplug the drive.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say " click through the multi-step
process of disconnecting it properly in /softawre/."
All I have to do is click on the safely remove hardware icon in the
notification area then click the device I want to remove and then unplug it'
Quick and simple.

Rene

Post by ultred ragnusen
I've still been raped - so I will always carry that fear with me - where
latent fear is a natural and healthy result of such USB experiences.
a. USB runs the risk of corruption, unless ...
b. You properly disconnect it EVERY TIME you use it.

Rene

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I'm not sure what you mean when you say " click through the multi-step
process of disconnecting it properly in /softawre/."
All I have to do is click on the safely remove hardware icon in the
notification area then click the device I want to remove and then unplug it'

We agree on everything.

That's a multi-step process, which you don't feel is onerous and I feel is
too much for a safety feature (e.g., it's why we don't have to manually
turn on our airbags every time we sit in our cars).

If you want the airbags to be turned on, then you make it a zero-step
process.

If you want people to have backup lights when they back up, you make it
automatic.

If you make them hit three buttons to turn on the airbag or turn on the
backup lights when they back up, you run the risk of them not doing it
EVERY SINGLE darn time they unplug anything from USB.

It's just a dumb dumb dumb default.
It should be automatic, or a single step. Period.

Otherwise, everyone isn't going to do it every time.
It's the nature of humans to skip steps that shouldn't have been there in
the first place.

HINT: Why do you think landscapers at Harvard have a hard time stopping
students from cutting corners across the Yard?

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I'm not sure what you mean when you say " click through the multi-step
process of disconnecting it properly in /softawre/."
All I have to do is click on the safely remove hardware icon in the
notification area then click the device I want to remove and then unplug it'

We agree on everything.
That's a multi-step process, which you don't feel is onerous and I feel is
too much for a safety feature (e.g., it's why we don't have to manually
turn on our airbags every time we sit in our cars).
If you want the airbags to be turned on, then you make it a zero-step
process.
If you want people to have backup lights when they back up, you make it
automatic.
If you make them hit three buttons to turn on the airbag or turn on the
backup lights when they back up, you run the risk of them not doing it
EVERY SINGLE darn time they unplug anything from USB.
It's just a dumb dumb dumb default.
It should be automatic, or a single step. Period.
Otherwise, everyone isn't going to do it every time.
It's the nature of humans to skip steps that shouldn't have been there in
the first place.
HINT: Why do you think landscapers at Harvard have a hard time stopping
students from cutting corners across the Yard?

But that's ONLY 2 clicks, Surely you can manage that! even if you are in
your 80s.
I am 84 and I don't have too much trouble with it. :-)

Rene

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Rene Lamontagne
But that's ONLY 2 clicks, Surely you can manage that! even if you are in
your 80s.
I am 84 and I don't have too much trouble with it. :-)

I said three, I meant three, and I count three.

It's interesting that those who have a point to prove tend to underestimate
the clicks if they want to prove it's not onerous, just as those who want
to show that it's onerous tend to overstimate the clicks.

But I just checked, and it's what I said it was.

I plug in USB stick which automatically loads drivers for "Drive K:"
Loading Image...

1. I find & click the tiny caret icon on the taskbar (show hidden icons)
Loading Image...
2. I find & click the usbstick icon "Safely Remove Hardware & Eject Media"
Loading Image...
3. I find & click the "Eject Ultra" line specific to that Drive K:
Loading Image...
A message pops up saying it's safe to eject
Loading Image...

We don't disagree meaningfully in facts - we only disagree in philosophy.

You feel it's OK to have three clicks to make it safe to pull a USB stick
out, where I feel that this is two and even three clicks too many, since it
should be designed to be automatic.

Think about it philosophically, as you would this automotive scenario:

You feel it's OK to have three clicks to turn white backup lights on when
you shift the car into reverse, where I feel that this is two or three
clicks too many, since it should be designed to be automatic, or at worst,
one click.

We don't disagree on facts ... we disagree on philosophy.

If you want something to happen, and if it doesn't happen things could get
catastrophic, then you should design it such that it happens every time.

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Rene Lamontagne
But that's ONLY 2 clicks, Surely you can manage that! even if you are in
your 80s.
I am 84 and I don't have too much trouble with it. :-)

I said three, I meant three, and I count three.
It's interesting that those who have a point to prove tend to underestimate
the clicks if they want to prove it's not onerous, just as those who want
to show that it's onerous tend to overstimate the clicks.
But I just checked, and it's what I said it was.
I plug in USB stick which automatically loads drivers for "Drive K:"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/03/02/Screenshot305.jpg
1. I find & click the tiny caret icon on the taskbar (show hidden icons)
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/03/02/Screenshot306.jpg

My icons are not hidden so I don't have to click the small caret.

Post by ultred ragnusen
2. I find & click the usbstick icon "Safely Remove Hardware & Eject Media"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/03/02/Screenshot307.jpg

CLICK (one)

Post by ultred ragnusen
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/03/02/Screenshot308.jpg

CLICK (two)

ALL DONE 2 clicks

Post by ultred ragnusen
A message pops up saying it's safe to eject
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/03/02/Screenshot309.jpg
We don't disagree meaningfully in facts - we only disagree in philosophy.
You feel it's OK to have three clicks to make it safe to pull a USB stick
out, where I feel that this is two and even three clicks too many, since it
should be designed to be automatic.
You feel it's OK to have three clicks to turn white backup lights on when
you shift the car into reverse, where I feel that this is two or three
clicks too many, since it should be designed to be automatic, or at worst,
one click.
We don't disagree on facts ... we disagree on philosophy.
If you want something to happen, and if it doesn't happen things could get
catastrophic, then you should design it such that it happens every time.
2 clicks. :-) :-) :-) Gotcha!

Rene

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Rene Lamontagne
My icons are not hidden so I don't have to click the small caret.

Thanks for explaining the discrepancy where we don't differ realistically
on the facts.

We only differ in philosophy.

The need is there to safely disconnect, even as I always wait for the file
transfer to finish, but I /still/ get corruptions if I don't use the
two-step or three-step process of "safely disconnecting hardware".

To me, the main issue, philosophically, since the risk is corruption of
data, is whether Microsoft (or the USB standard) should or even /could/
have made safe-disconnection automatic just like it's automatic that our
white backup lights go on when we shift the transmission into reverse?

[Ken Blake]

Post by Rene Lamontagne

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I might add, not only for backups but for important archive material Also.

Do you never have a power interruption when you back up your data to those
frail and vulnerable USB drives?

One seven minute downtime in 2 years.

I've had more than that, but as I just said in another message in this
thread, always while using a UPS, which negates the problem.

Post by Rene Lamontagne
Would your internal Sata drive keep running during a power outage??
You must have discovered perpetual motion if they do.

Ditto, as I also just said (in slightly different words).

Post by Rene Lamontagne

Post by ultred ragnusen
I hear both what you and Ken said, but you provide false promises, since it
is a well-known fact that I'm too experienced to not know about, but which
you seem to be ignoring.

I don't provide any promises, I'm just telling what works fine for me,
Other people can make their own choices.
Your Experienced!!! At What???

I think most of his experience is with chainsaws in nurseries, not
with computers.

Besides not knowing what he's talking about, he's a braggart, as
evidenced by "a well-known fact that I'm too experienced to not know
about...," and "I'm too experienced to believe that what you say..."

It's bad enough to brag when what you say is true, but it's even worse
in his case.

And--I don't say this to brag about it, but just to point out that his
highly-touted experience probably is shorter than mine--I've been
working with computers since 1962, and with PCs since 1987.

There are several regular participants in these newsgroups who I
greatly respect--and since I have no illusions at knowing everything
about Windows, often learn from--but he's far from being one of them.

And by the way, most of those participants who I greatly respect
probably have less experience than I do. That doesn't mean they know
less than I do

Post by Rene Lamontagne

Post by ultred ragnusen
It's /fine/ that you never had any problems, just like it's fine that you
leave your chainsaw running all day in the nursery and your kids never cut
their fingers off ... but there are some things that are known facts that
are real, and where you do a disservice to others by denying the obvious.

That's a piss poor analogy if I ever heard one.

A strong ditto! It's a laughable analogy.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Ken Blake
Besides not knowing what he's talking about, he's a braggart, as
evidenced by "a well-known fact that I'm too experienced to not know
about...," and "I'm too experienced to believe that what you say..."

Your feelings are not wrong.

I apologize that I have experienced USB related corruption, which is what
my "braggart" statement was meant to convey.

It's the same sentiment whenever I hear someone say that the free office
suites are compatible with MS Office documents - which is that I've
experienced too many times that they're not - to believe what someone says
just because /they/ haven't experienced it.

I'm happy for them. I wish I didn't have the experience of USB-related
corruption. I really do.

Post by Ken Blake
It's bad enough to brag when what you say is true, but it's even worse
in his case.

I never claim to know what I don't know, and, if I did, in the haste of
writing a Usenet article (which is an ad-hoc discussion and not a well
vetted thesis), I'm sure you'll let me know when I'm full of shit. :)

Post by Ken Blake
And--I don't say this to brag about it, but just to point out that his
highly-touted experience probably is shorter than mine--I've been
working with computers since 1962, and with PCs since 1987.

I'm in my eighties, but the point here isn't who has the bigger penis but
whether USB connected disc drives can be corrupted if you disconnect them
improperly.

I simply posit, based on my empirical experience, that they can.
In fact, my own experience, sadly, is that they do.

Post by Ken Blake
There are several regular participants in these newsgroups who I
greatly respect--and since I have no illusions at knowing everything
about Windows, often learn from--but he's far from being one of them.

Heh heh ... I can take your digs, but you don't know that I've been on
Usenet as long as you have, where Marek and others have helped me hone my
script-based Usenet system such that the scripts I use /are/ my vi-based
newsreader, where those scripts pretty much hand me a nym randomly and
which munge the headers, including the newsreader, IP address and timezone,
such that, while I never ever troll, the only headers that are meaningful
are the subject and the body, where I don't even know what the other
headers are at any given time.

Hence, you've interacted with me probably thousands of times, as I post on
the net perhaps hundreds of technical on-topic well-documented
well-summarized messages each and every day (having long ago retired to the
mountains above Silicon Valley).

Post by Ken Blake
And by the way, most of those participants who I greatly respect
probably have less experience than I do. That doesn't mean they know
less than I do

As a respectful aside, I have to point out that each of us has their
skills, where, for example, it hurts my eyes to see "who" used when "whom"
belongs in the sentence, where my only point is that we're each experienced
and knowledgeable in different things.

Many of us have multiple higher degrees, but each degree is in a different
field and where you guys are the experts on Windows 10 in this ng, not me.

Bear in mind that I ask questions here for two reasons:
1. To increase my knowledge and capabilities on Windows 10, and,
2. Always, always, to add value to the tribal knowledge of the group.

You should evidence of both of those inherent in the OP, do you not?

[Ken Blake]

On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 11:12:08 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Ken Blake
Besides not knowing what he's talking about, he's a braggart, as
evidenced by "a well-known fact that I'm too experienced to not know
about...," and "I'm too experienced to believe that what you say..."

Your feelings are not wrong.
I apologize that I have experienced USB related corruption, which is what
my "braggart" statement was meant to convey.

If you are apologizing for bragging, thank you. I'll accept your
apology.

Post by ultred ragnusen
It's the same sentiment whenever I hear someone say that the free office
suites are compatible with MS Office documents - which is that I've
experienced too many times that they're not - to believe what someone says
just because /they/ haven't experienced it.

I'm not going to reply to most of your message, since I would just be
repeating myself, but I'll reply to that.

Compatibility is hardly ever 100%. It's not even absolutely true that
a new version of Microsoft Office is 100% compatible with older
Microsoft Office documents. My standard comment on
OpenOffice/LibreOffice compatibility with Microsoft Office is that
they are largely compatible with it, but not 100%. The more complex
the document, the less likely it is that it is completely compatible.

But that's a very different statement from your "compatible with MS
Office documents ... they're not." Your statement implies that they
are completely incompatible, and that's not at all true. For most
people, and the documents that they create or receive from others,
they are close enough to being completely compatible that getting them
instead of paying for Microsoft Office is a good choice.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Ken Blake
But that's a very different statement from your "compatible with MS
Office documents ... they're not." Your statement implies that they
are completely incompatible, and that's not at all true. For most
people, and the documents that they create or receive from others,
they are close enough to being completely compatible that getting them
instead of paying for Microsoft Office is a good choice.

We only disagree on one thing, and one thing only, with respect to
compatibility, which is that if /one/ necessary document is incompatible,
then I must /purchase/ Microsoft Office.

Period.

Once I've purchased Microsoft Office, then I'm gonna /use/ Microsoft
Office, where, trust me, I don't buy anything I don't have to buy, nor do I
load software just for the fun of learning about all the ways they screw up
the design in the user interface.

It's sort of like the same philosophy that dictates that police in the USA
have guns on their belt and why they are trained in how to use them.

We only disagree in philosophy.

You seem to think that the small number of incompatible documents justifies
the need /not/ to pay for and install and learn and use Microsoft Office.

Philosophically, I posit that is like saying...

You seem to think that the small number of incorrigible criminals justifies
the need for police /not/ to pay for and wear and learn how to use a gun.

We don't differ in fact - we differ in philosophy.

[Paul]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I might add, not only for backups but for important archive material Also.

Do you never have a power interruption when you back up your data to those
frail and vulnerable USB drives?

Some of us use UPS boxes to ensure "clean" shutdowns
in the event of a power problem.

A backup operation can be repeated later, once
power is restored.

The intention is not to have UPS boxes that are
so big, as to stay running. If you're a rich guy,
you could have a Tesla Power Wall, as an example of
keeping your household running no matter what. For
the rest of us, a UPS capable of a "two minute warning"
is sufficient for this job.

Paul

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Paul

Post by ultred ragnusen
Do you never have a power interruption when you back up your data to those
frail and vulnerable USB drives?

Some of us use UPS boxes to ensure "clean" shutdowns
in the event of a power problem.

While I live in what appears to be the third world of power reliability
(the power goes out, on average, about a dozen times a year in the
California Santa Cruz Mountains), I'm /mostly/ talking about yanking the
USB cable out without performing the multi-step hardware shutdown process.

I was lulled into complacency because your data isn't corrupted every time
you yank a USB device out of its port without the multi-step shutdown
process being elicited, but I was taught a hard lesson by more than one
corruption, the worst of which was on a large USB drive just after backing
up large amounts of data, which subsequently had to be recovered
painstakingly with Recuva (flat, and missing key elements of the file
names) because I didn't realize until (months?) later that Windows had
corrupted the frail USB drive.

At that point, which wasn't my first rodeo with the inherent corruptability
of those frail USB drives, I swore them off forever.

You have clearly either been luckier than I, or you've exercised far more
caution when disconnecting those frail USB drives from your Windows
computer.

Post by Paul
A backup operation can be repeated later, once
power is restored.

In the case that caused me to swear off those frail USB drives forever, I
didn't realize until (months?) later that the drive had been corrupted by
the last action on it.

Post by Paul
The intention is not to have UPS boxes that are
so big, as to stay running. If you're a rich guy,
you could have a Tesla Power Wall, as an example of
keeping your household running no matter what. For
the rest of us, a UPS capable of a "two minute warning"
is sufficient for this job.

While our power is highly unreliable (everyone has a generator which kicks
in soon after the power shuts down), I'm mostly talking about the frailties
of the USB drives that are inherently activated when you disconnect the USB
cable on purpose or accidentally without first shutting down the USB drive
through the multi-step Windows process.

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 19:39:52 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Paul
The intention is not to have UPS boxes that are
so big, as to stay running. If you're a rich guy,
you could have a Tesla Power Wall, as an example of
keeping your household running no matter what. For
the rest of us, a UPS capable of a "two minute warning"
is sufficient for this job.

While our power is highly unreliable (everyone has a generator which kicks
in soon after the power shuts down),

A generator which "kicks in soon after the power shuts down" is next
to useless as far as a computer is concerned. What you need is a UPS
that keeps the computer running when the power goes out, so you can
stop all the programs that are running and shut the computer down
gracefully. As Paul said, "a UPS capable of a "two minute warning is
sufficient for this job. But two minutes is on the low side, and I
would prefer one that gives me a little more time, mine gives me about
10-15 minutes. They are inexpensive; you can get a good one on
Amazon.com for $57.49, but I would recommend them to everyone even if
you had to pay three times the price. The risk of not having one is
too great.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Ken Blake
A generator which "kicks in soon after the power shuts down" is next
to useless as far as a computer is concerned.

We certainly agree. Worse, the power fluctuates constantly, especially
since PG&E has changed their algorithm very recently from 3 anomalies to 1
anomaly to kick off the power automatically (they did this after the fire
down south).

It's even to the point that PG&E personally told me, when I filed a
complaint that they were turning the power off too much, that the lawyers
have gotten the courts to agree that "normal operation is a hazardous
condition" (PG&E's exact words) such that if they see a high-wind advisory,
they'll disconnect the substation, until the winds subside.

Then it could take days for them to patrol the lines because our lines are
often patrolled by helicopters as they follow no roads nor paths in the
mountains, such that the weather has to be conducive for the chopper.

Post by Ken Blake
What you need is a UPS
that keeps the computer running when the power goes out, so you can
stop all the programs that are running and shut the computer down
gracefully.

Yes. We agree. But my usb-based corruption experience isn't from power
going out. It's from me pulling the plug.

The Microsoft designed mechanism is about as bad as they could have
designed it. It's like making people hit three buttons to turn on the
reverse lights every time they put their transmission into reverse.

If you want something to happen every time, you /design/ the system to make
that action automatic.

Or, for heaven's sake, a single click.

Post by Ken Blake
As Paul said, "a UPS capable of a "two minute warning is
sufficient for this job. But two minutes is on the low side, and I
would prefer one that gives me a little more time, mine gives me about
10-15 minutes. They are inexpensive; you can get a good one on
Amazon.com for $57.49, but I would recommend them to everyone even if
you had to pay three times the price. The risk of not having one is
too great.

I have too many computers to want to have a USB attached to each one, but
what I could use is a battery backup for the house that kicks in more
quickly than does the generator.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by ultred ragnusen
I have too many computers to want to have a USB attached to each one, but
what I could use is a battery backup for the house that kicks in more
quickly than does the generator.

I meant UPS (not USB).
Mea culpa...

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen
I have too many computers to want to have a USB attached to each one, but
what I could use is a battery backup for the house that kicks in more
quickly than does the generator.

I meant UPS (not USB).
Mea culpa...

I believe Paul Mentioned a *Tesla Power Wall*

Rene

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 18:26:54 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I might add, not only for backups but for important archive material Also.

Do you never have a power interruption when you back up your data to those
frail and vulnerable USB drives?

Rarely.

But more important, I never run a computer without its being connected
to a UPS (and I recommend the same to everyone). If there's a power
interruption, I stop the backup and start it again later when the
power comes back.

Post by ultred ragnusen
I hear both what you and Ken said, but you provide false promises, since it
is a well-known fact that I'm too experienced to not know about, but which
you seem to be ignoring.

LOL!

Post by ultred ragnusen
It's /fine/ that you never had any problems, just like it's fine that you
leave your chainsaw running all day in the nursery and your kids never cut
their fingers off ... but there are some things that are known facts that
are real, and where you do a disservice to others by denying the obvious.

Double LOL!

Post by ultred ragnusen
If you have a power or data interruption when using a USB drive on Windows,
you /definitely/ risk corruption of the HDD contents. Period.

If you have a power interruption, you run the risk of corruption of
all drives, USB or otherwise. Use a UPS and that risk vanishes.

Post by ultred ragnusen
If you wish to ignore or downplay that bona fide fact, so be it, but I will
remind other that I'm too experienced

Triple LOL!

[Paul]

Post by Ken Blake
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 22:37:22 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Char Jackson
I have a suggestion. ;-)

Yes. Backup. Except that it's /inside/ the computer, unless I disconnect
the cable /after/ the backup, which is easily enough done so that a virus
can't get to it.

Yes, that protects against some problems such as viruses. But it
doesn't protect against theft of the computer.
A much better solution is buying an inexpensive ($10 or so) external
USB case for it, removing it from the computer, and putting it in the
case. That's also much easier to use than it is to disconnect an
internal cable.

It's more than that.

We need to encourage people to "air gap" their backup disk drives.

It's for Ransomware. Modern Ransomware can follow any
wired or wireless path and destroy stuff. It can hit
your Dropbox or OneDrive or Google Drive.

Only the hard drive you hid under your sofa cushions is safe.

Paul

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by Paul

Post by Ken Blake
On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 22:37:22 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Char Jackson
I have a suggestion. ;-)

Yes. Backup. Except that it's /inside/ the computer, unless I
disconnect the cable /after/ the backup, which is easily enough done
so that a virus can't get to it.

Yes, that protects against some problems such as viruses. But it
doesn't protect against theft of the computer.
A much better solution is buying an inexpensive ($10 or so) external
USB case for it, removing it from the computer, and putting it in the
case. That's also much easier to use than it is to disconnect an
internal cable.

It's more than that.
We need to encourage people to "air gap" their backup disk drives.
It's for Ransomware. Modern Ransomware can follow any
wired or wireless path and destroy stuff. It can hit
your Dropbox or OneDrive or Google Drive.
Only the hard drive you hid under your sofa cushions is safe.
   Paul

I concur Paul, I'm running about a 10 inch airgap and it works like a charm.
Aint no way a ransomware dude can throw his signals that far. :-)

Rene

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I concur Paul, I'm running about a 10 inch airgap and it works like a charm.
Aint no way a ransomware dude can throw his signals that far. :-)

I agree with both of you that in air is safety.

But how?

Googling, it seems that an air-gap, in the simplest form, is just a
computer disconnected from the net, which is unrealistic, in my situation.

Hacker Lexicon: What Is an Air Gap?
https://www.wired.com/2014/12/hacker-lexicon-air-gap/
"A true air gap means the machine or network is physically isolated from
the internet, and data can only pass to it via a USB flash drive, other
removable media, or a firewire connecting two computers directly."

Although this exists ... but only for high value targets...
Disk drive trick allows hackers to transmit data covertly from an air-gap
computer
https://techxplore.com/news/2016-08-disk-hackers-transmit-covertly-air-gap.html
http://www.securitynewspaper.com/2016/08/12/new-air-gap-jumper-covertly-transmits-data-hard-drive-sounds/
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/new-air-gap-jumper-covertly-transmits-data-in-hard-drive-sounds/
etc.

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Rene Lamontagne
I concur Paul, I'm running about a 10 inch airgap and it works like a charm.
Aint no way a ransomware dude can throw his signals that far. :-)

I agree with both of you that in air is safety.
But how?
Googling, it seems that an air-gap, in the simplest form, is just a
computer disconnected from the net, which is unrealistic, in my situation.
Hacker Lexicon: What Is an Air Gap?
https://www.wired.com/2014/12/hacker-lexicon-air-gap/
"A true air gap means the machine or network is physically isolated from
the internet, and data can only pass to it via a USB flash drive, other
removable media, or a firewire connecting two computers directly."
Although this exists ... but only for high value targets...
Disk drive trick allows hackers to transmit data covertly from an air-gap
computer
https://techxplore.com/news/2016-08-disk-hackers-transmit-covertly-air-gap.html
http://www.securitynewspaper.com/2016/08/12/new-air-gap-jumper-covertly-transmits-data-hard-drive-sounds/
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/new-air-gap-jumper-covertly-transmits-data-in-hard-drive-sounds/
etc.

An air gap in my case is the seperation between the male end of the
external USB drive power cord and the 120 volt AC receptacle.

Or the distance between the drives USB cable plug and the USB port on
the computer.

Rene

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Rene Lamontagne
An air gap in my case is the seperation between the male end of the
external USB drive power cord and the 120 volt AC receptacle.

Fair enough.

This limits the exposure to the time that it's connected, although a well
written virus will simply bide its time until you do connect the cable to
the computer (or the power to the device).

[Char Jackson]

On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 22:37:22 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen
Your point is valid. Except that the only safe HDD is a HDD outside the
computer (e.g., from viruses), and the only safe HDD outside a computer is
NOT a USB HDD (for stated reasons).

I'd be wasting my time if I pointed out that the vast, vast, vast
majority of computer users don't have problems with external drives
connected via USB. I can confidently come to the conclusion that you're
experiencing user error, but that doesn't get us anywhere.

So if the drive has to be external but it can't be USB, what else is
there? eSata? Ethernet? BTW, long SATA cables are out of the question.
SATA connectors aren't rated for a whole lot of connect/disconnect
cycles. I think eSATA improves on that, but I haven't looked it up.

Have you considered those drive cages that slide in/out of a bay? That
way, the drive is connected internally when you need it and air-gapped
when you don't need it.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Char Jackson
I'd be wasting my time if I pointed out that the vast, vast, vast
majority of computer users don't have problems with external drives
connected via USB. I can confidently come to the conclusion that you're
experiencing user error, but that doesn't get us anywhere.
So if the drive has to be external but it can't be USB, what else is
there? eSata? Ethernet? BTW, long SATA cables are out of the question.
SATA connectors aren't rated for a whole lot of connect/disconnect
cycles. I think eSATA improves on that, but I haven't looked it up.
Have you considered those drive cages that slide in/out of a bay? That
way, the drive is connected internally when you need it and air-gapped
when you don't need it.

Let's give up on this frail USB thing.

We've beaten this to death where others are just not as experienced as I am
with USB drives being corrupted by Windows, that's all.

I'm very happy for those of you who haven't been burned yet. I really am.
The corruption is in your future, but for now, you can rest easy.

And that's good.
Right now, I'm working on dual booting and cleaning up new Microsoft
pollution, but on my disk by obviously bad coding. (More separately.)

[Paul]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Char Jackson
I'd be wasting my time if I pointed out that the vast, vast, vast
majority of computer users don't have problems with external drives
connected via USB. I can confidently come to the conclusion that you're
experiencing user error, but that doesn't get us anywhere.
So if the drive has to be external but it can't be USB, what else is
there? eSata? Ethernet? BTW, long SATA cables are out of the question.
SATA connectors aren't rated for a whole lot of connect/disconnect
cycles. I think eSATA improves on that, but I haven't looked it up.
Have you considered those drive cages that slide in/out of a bay? That
way, the drive is connected internally when you need it and air-gapped
when you don't need it.

Let's give up on this frail USB thing.
We've beaten this to death where others are just not as experienced as I am
with USB drives being corrupted by Windows, that's all.
I'm very happy for those of you who haven't been burned yet. I really am.
The corruption is in your future, but for now, you can rest easy.
And that's good.
Right now, I'm working on dual booting and cleaning up new Microsoft
pollution, but on my disk by obviously bad coding. (More separately.)

Metal USB connectors are good for 5000 insertions.

Metal ESATA connectors are good for 5000 insertions.

SATA plastic cables (the internal ones) are good for 50 insertions.
Although I have some with a couple hundred insertions at least,
and they're just getting a bit loose. The spec estimates a life of
50 cycles. The only purpose of these life estimates, is to
assign "classes" to the connector types, in the "good, better, best"
sense.

I use Safely Remove on my USB items, and don't have problems.

There are some USB3 sticks with plastic barrels on them.
Do not buy those, as they don't control capture well enough.
I broke a pin off the plastic USB3 stick on the very first day.
That never happens with my collection of metal barrel USB3
sticks.

Paul

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Paul
SATA plastic cables (the internal ones) are good for 50 insertions.

Thanks Paul for that information, as I was unaware of the frailty of the
SATA connectors. Hence, I've been disabused of the idea of using the SATA
cable to isolate the HDD.

Post by Paul
I use Safely Remove on my USB items, and don't have problems.

In the past, I often skipped that step, just as a woman can safely walk by
a bar in a short skirt many times without getting raped ... until the day
she does get raped.

Since I've experienced corruptions, I no longer walk by bars at night
wearing a short skirt. I wear a three-layer full-length outfit, which is
basically what Microsoft designed into that Safely Remove mechanism.

Post by Paul
There are some USB3 sticks with plastic barrels on them.
Do not buy those, as they don't control capture well enough.
I broke a pin off the plastic USB3 stick on the very first day.
That never happens with my collection of metal barrel USB3
sticks.

Interesting concept of looking at the "barrel" as all my USB sticks are
plastic "bodies" but I never looked at what you call the "barrel".

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 1 Mar 2018 22:58:59 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Char Jackson
I'd be wasting my time if I pointed out that the vast, vast, vast
majority of computer users don't have problems with external drives
connected via USB. I can confidently come to the conclusion that you're
experiencing user error, but that doesn't get us anywhere.
So if the drive has to be external but it can't be USB, what else is
there? eSata? Ethernet? BTW, long SATA cables are out of the question.
SATA connectors aren't rated for a whole lot of connect/disconnect
cycles. I think eSATA improves on that, but I haven't looked it up.
Have you considered those drive cages that slide in/out of a bay? That
way, the drive is connected internally when you need it and air-gapped
when you don't need it.

Let's give up on this frail USB thing.
We've beaten this to death where others are just not as experienced as I am
with USB drives being corrupted by Windows, that's all.

LOL again. Rather than your giving up when you are so obviously
completely wrong, you want to ask all the rest of us to give up.

No, I won't. As I just said, you are completely wrong, despite your
*vast* experience.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Ken Blake
LOL again. Rather than your giving up when you are so obviously
completely wrong, you want to ask all the rest of us to give up.
No, I won't. As I just said, you are completely wrong, despite your
*vast* experience.

I'm not here to prove that I'm right or wrong, nor to prove if my penis is
bigger or smaller than yours, anymore than you are.

I have only stated that I've been burned by USB-related corruption, and I
clearly stated that I didn't always use the 'safely remove' series of
switches.

I also stated that anyone who skips those multiple steps runs the risk of
corruption.

That you apparently disagree, and say I'm wrong, is fine.

But since I know that what I said is a fact, and yet, you repeatedly say
I'm wrong, then my point of us not beating this to death is that there's no
way we're going to make any headway if you really believe that my real-life
experience is wrong.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
How do you set up a directory that will limit itself in size - or do you
mean you will manually monitor them?

Never manual!
That's the whole point - to avoid any manual directory sizing!

The easiest way to limit a directory to a DVD size is to create a virtual
disk drive using any virtualization software you want to use.

I know how to use Veracrypt, so that's what I use to limit the size of each
alphabetical virtual drive to a DVD disc size, but even Windows has
virtualization software (it's just harder to use than is Veracrypt).

With Veracrypt, you can quite easily create as many 4.3GB or 4.4GB
container files as there are letters in the alphabet, each of which
"mounts" as a drive letter on Windows.

For example, I have more than a dozen virtual drives, but I just mounted X:
Y: and Z: for you for this screenshot (where you'll note I was
experimenting with size limits of 4.2GB, 4.3GB, 4.4GB, 4.5GB, and 4.6GB).
Loading Image...

It's trivial to create a virtual disk in Veracrypt, but you can also create
them with VirtualBox or any other virtualization software.

I happen to like Veracrypt (same as Truecrypt) because it's so easy to use
and it's designed exactly for this purpose.

You don't have to encrypt it, but encryption is a bonus if you want the
encryption. Truecrypt did the same thing if you're happy with that
software.

[Shadow]

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 21:01:44 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen
The easiest way to limit a directory to a DVD size is to create a virtual
disk drive using any virtualization software you want to use.
I know how to use Veracrypt, so that's what I use to limit the size of each
alphabetical virtual drive to a DVD disc size, but even Windows has
virtualization software (it's just harder to use than is Veracrypt).
With Veracrypt, you can quite easily create as many 4.3GB or 4.4GB
container files as there are letters in the alphabet, each of which
"mounts" as a drive letter on Windows.
Y: and Z: for you for this screenshot (where you'll note I was
experimenting with size limits of 4.2GB, 4.3GB, 4.4GB, 4.5GB, and 4.6GB).
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/27/veracrypt_virtual_drive.jpg
It's trivial to create a virtual disk in Veracrypt, but you can also create
them with VirtualBox or any other virtualization software.
I happen to like Veracrypt

not the

Post by ultred ragnusen
(same as Truecrypt) because it's so easy to use
and it's designed exactly for this purpose.

It's what I do to backup my p0Rn. But I use TrueCrypt. I'm not
the sharing kind. Let the NSA research their own p0Rn.
;)
[]'s

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Shadow
It's what I do to backup my p0Rn. But I use TrueCrypt. I'm not
the sharing kind. Let the NSA research their own p0Rn.

I've found this to be the easiest way to create dvd-sized mount points:
Loading Image...

However, I've tried a few other ways to create DVD-sized mount points:
- Partitions (not easily changed)
- Quotas (too difficult to manage)
- Virtual disks (too difficult to manage)
- Container files (easy to change & easy to manage)

What I love about Truecrypt/Veracrypt (yes, not exactly the same, but the
user interface is, AFAICR, almost exactly the same) is that the GUI walks
you through the creation of DVD-sized mount points (which makes KISS manual
backing up larger-than-DVD amounts of data to dvd infinitely easier).

This is the only setup step, which is done once per size-limited volume.
1) Start Veracrypt & press "Create Volume"
2) Keep the default "Create an encrypted file container" & hit "Next"
3) Keep the default "Standard VeraCrypt volume" & hit "Next"
4) Click "Select File" to browse anywhere you like on your system
5) Type a new "File name:", e.g., C:\data\backup\discs\bck_disc01.hc
6) Hit "Save" & then "Next" & then "Next" again
7) For "Volume Size", enter "4300" and select "MB" & hit "Next"
8) For "Volume Password", enter & confirm the "space" key (or whatever)
9) Hit "Next" & press "Yes" when asked if you really want a short passwd
10) When asked if you intend to store "Large Files", keep "No" & hit "Next"
11) Randomly move the mouse, or just hit "Format"
12) Wait for a success message & hit "OK"

Note that the file name is completely arbitrary, but if it ends with *.tc
or *.hc, doubleclicking on the file will bring up VeraCrypt by default
where simply selecting a drive letter (e.g., "Z:") and entering a "space"
will mount it as its own drive.

Right-clicking "Properties" on that "Z:" drive shows:
Type: Removable Disk
File system: FAT32 (it would be NTFS if you selected large files)
Used space: 12,288 bytes (12.0KB)
Free space: 4,499,791,872 bytes (4.19GB)
Capacity: 4,499,791,872 bytes (4.19GB)

Note that we keep it below the 4.7GB limit of a normal-sized DVD.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/27/dvd-sized-mount-points.jpg

If you know of a better (easier, more efficient) way to create DVD-sized
mount points, let us all know, as it's a useful skill to have in your back
pocket.

[Shadow]

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 08:50:31 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Shadow
It's what I do to backup my p0Rn. But I use TrueCrypt. I'm not
the sharing kind. Let the NSA research their own p0Rn.

http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/27/dvd-sized-mount-points.jpg
- Partitions (not easily changed)
- Quotas (too difficult to manage)
- Virtual disks (too difficult to manage)
- Container files (easy to change & easy to manage)
What I love about Truecrypt/Veracrypt (yes, not exactly the same, but the
user interface is, AFAICR, almost exactly the same) is that the GUI walks
you through the creation of DVD-sized mount points (which makes KISS manual
backing up larger-than-DVD amounts of data to dvd infinitely easier).
This is the only setup step, which is done once per size-limited volume.
1) Start Veracrypt & press "Create Volume"
2) Keep the default "Create an encrypted file container" & hit "Next"
3) Keep the default "Standard VeraCrypt volume" & hit "Next"
4) Click "Select File" to browse anywhere you like on your system
5) Type a new "File name:", e.g., C:\data\backup\discs\bck_disc01.hc
6) Hit "Save" & then "Next" & then "Next" again
7) For "Volume Size", enter "4300" and select "MB" & hit "Next"
8) For "Volume Password", enter & confirm the "space" key (or whatever)
9) Hit "Next" & press "Yes" when asked if you really want a short passwd
10) When asked if you intend to store "Large Files", keep "No" & hit "Next"
11) Randomly move the mouse, or just hit "Format"
12) Wait for a success message & hit "OK"
Note that the file name is completely arbitrary, but if it ends with *.tc
or *.hc, doubleclicking on the file will bring up VeraCrypt by default
where simply selecting a drive letter (e.g., "Z:") and entering a "space"
will mount it as its own drive.
Type: Removable Disk
File system: FAT32 (it would be NTFS if you selected large files)
Used space: 12,288 bytes (12.0KB)
Free space: 4,499,791,872 bytes (4.19GB)
Capacity: 4,499,791,872 bytes (4.19GB)
Note that we keep it below the 4.7GB limit of a normal-sized DVD.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/27/dvd-sized-mount-points.jpg
If you know of a better (easier, more efficient) way to create DVD-sized
mount points, let us all know, as it's a useful skill to have in your back
pocket.

I use TrueCrypt with 4482269 kilobytes, which is 4589843456
bytes, which is safe with even cheapo DVDs.
You get almost 60MB more than your way.
Not that 60MB matters much these days ....
;)
[]'s

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Shadow
I use TrueCrypt with 4482269 kilobytes, which is 4589843456
bytes, which is safe with even cheapo DVDs.
You get almost 60MB more than your way.
Not that 60MB matters much these days ....

Thank you Shadow for that additional empirically derived suggestion for the
optimal disc size of 4,48,2269 KB, as I'll take 60 free MB any day.

I hadn't fully tested how many MB work because 4700 MB does NOT work for
sure! So I only knew it was something between 4300 MB and 4700 MB that
would safely burn to DVD.

I just tried your helpful suggestion of 4,48,2269 KB in Veracrypt, with the
following results on the hard drive.


FAT32:
The disk drive shows up as a 4.26GB Removable Disk (Z:) where the
right-click properties on the 4.3GB drive show a capacity of 4,580,597,760
bytes.
Loading Image...

NTFS:
In a quick experiment, changing only the FAT32 to NTFS, the resulting size
shows up as a 4.27GB Removable Disk (Y:) where the right click properties
on the 4.3GB drive show a capacity of 4,587,454,464 bytes.
Loading Image...

It's interesting that changing nothing but FAT32 to NTFS, we gain an
additional 6,856,704 bytes (7MB) for free.

Do you see any reason not to use these two settings moving forward for all?
1. 4482269 kilobytes
2. NTFS (versus FAT32)

[Shadow]

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:00:46 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Shadow
Have you ever thought about dual booting ?
You could have a simple Linux Dist ( Mint or even Debian) on a
partition and boot into that when your "favorite" OS fails.

In the future, I'm going to be more careful about forcing a DVD-sized
directory size, which is really what slows me down on backing up data since
a 4.7GB DVD only holds, realistically, about 4.3GB to 4.l4 GB of data but
my data hierarchy is always larger than that. So by forcing a 4.3GB
directory size, I'll not have to dance with DVDs at backup time (yes, I
know all about USB drives - but they're less reliable than is DVD,
particularly from Microsoft-induced corruption when you remove them without
shutting them down (ask me how I know this)).

AOMEI Backupper allows you to choose the size of the backup
files when you do a system backup, and you can choose DVD size. Since
they use (optional) compression, a HD with 10 -15 GB of files on it
would probably fit onto 2 DVDs.
It's free. Give it a try.
[]'s

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Shadow
AOMEI Backupper allows you to choose the size of the backup
files when you do a system backup, and you can choose DVD size. Since
they use (optional) compression, a HD with 10 -15 GB of files on it
would probably fit onto 2 DVDs.
It's free. Give it a try.

Sounds like a good tool, but I'd have to check if it uses any proprietary
compression formats, which I'm sick of, having been burned hundreds of
times in my lifetime with proprietary formats.

https://www.backup-utility.com/free-backup-software.html\

AOMEI Backupper Standard 4.0.6
https://www.backup-utility.com/download.html

[Diesel]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Mike S
Are you saying Windows physically damaged your hdd, or is it
possible you could simply no longer boot from it?

There is absolutely no doubt (based on my tests) that the HDD is
undamaged and that the only problem is that an errant Microsoft
Windows 10 update bricked the operating system.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/win10update_010.jpg

I believe you're using the term bricked in error here...You aren't
dealing with fuxored firmware. You have full access to the software
in question and can repair at will without much of anything getting
in your way.

Post by ultred ragnusen
Trust me, since 6:29am on the 25th of January, I have spent
umpteen hours running all the possible options that come up in the
default Microsoft Windows 10 recovery console, as had Microsoft
telephone tier 2 tech support at [phone].
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/system_restore.jpg

Any of you thought to check event viewer logs? Sometimes, they
provide quite useful information. Especially for the purposes of
debugging.

Post by ultred ragnusen
That was the last time I was able to boot...where three days in a
row, the Windows 10 Update failed, and when the PC booted
overnight, it never came back.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/startup_repair.jpg

It's difficult to do remote diagnostic work in some cases. Especially
if one doesn't know what the original owner has already tried for
repairs. You may infact have made things worse in your hasty effort
to fix it...

Post by ultred ragnusen
Thanks for the advice, but Windows bricked itself, where we tried
resetting the OS using the recovery console.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/reset_pc_02.jpg

You're using the wrong terminology....And what do you mean by
resetting the OS exactly? Have you backed up the data you care about
onto external media? If not, that's the first thing you should be
doing, before you continue with blind 'click this, push this, cross
your fingers' repair efforts. While it's unlikely you'd lose access
to your data in most cases, I have no idea what you might attempt to
do to repair the machine; so for that reason, it's best for you to
copy your data off the machine before you attempt further repairs.

If you just want it fixed fast and don't care to do some real
troubleshooting, backup your data and reload the machine.

Post by ultred ragnusen
It failed.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/24/reset_pc_04.jpg
Currently, I'm working with the various suggested recovery
mechanisms: * TestDisk
* Recuva
* PhotoRec
* DDRescue
* Knoppix
etc.

Umm. I mean no offense when I tell you this, but, you don't seem to
know what you're doing.
--
Don't become the next David Brooks cyberstalking victim!
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)
to learn more. If you've already become a victim or know someone who
has, you can provide the following information to them, your lawyer,
local law enforcement, etc.
https://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk - His local police. Report?
David Brooks (BoaterDave)
Jersey Cottage 86 Granary Lane
Budleigh Salterton Devon EX9 6ER United Kingdom
Phone: [phone] (H) 07974-193550 (M)
Email(s): ***@btinternet.com, ***@aol.com

[ultred ragnusen]

I don't have confidence in using restore points - I won't torture
myself trying to remember why; it was many tears ago.

I agree that the restore points that I had, were not found by Windows 10
recovery anyway, so the restore points turned out to be useless.
Loading Image...

For a number of years I have relied on 3rd party backup programs. In
recent years, I have been using AOMEI Backupper Pro.

I really should just learn how to rsync on Windows.

That's all I really need since I don't care to back up the operating system
or the programs, all of which can easily be re-installed.

All I care about is my data.

Before doing any updates to Windows, I make a backup and store it on a
separate hard drive. If my PC won't boot after an update, I resort to
1. Repair the MBR.
2. Restore my PC from the backup.

The local Silicon Valley Microsoft Retail Store had my PC for a couple of
days, where they tried everything they could on their side, to no avail.
Loading Image...

And I DO NOT rely on Microsoft repair options.

The retail store ran a full diagnostic (they said) which tested the HDD and
the memory and the motherboard, all of which passed. The only problem was
the Windows 10 Pro update in January bricked the operating system, which
they say they see happening at least once a day at this store in the middle
of Silicon Valley.
Loading Image...

Interestingly, it's directly across the hall from the Apple store.
Loading Image...

The Microasoft geniuses don't know any more than do the Apple geniuses
though, because never have either one ever fixed anything I've brought to
them - although the Microsoft store is twice the size of the Apple Store
and they feed you too! :)
Loading Image...

Did you have a separate backup or were you relying on a restore point
for recovery?

Unfortunately, I was lulled into complacency by the reliability of MS
Windows of late, but it was a false security.

Still, I torrented Knoppix before I gave the PC to Microsoft to fix.
Loading Image...

So I already backed up most of the data using Knoppix before I gave the
desktop to the Microsoft Store, with only this minor error on Knoppix for
some files.
Error splicing file: Value too large for defined data type
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

But that might just be a bug in Knoppix 8.1, because I stopped off at Fryes
on my way home to pick up an SATA III cable and a molex-to-SATA power
connector so that I could mount both terabyte HDDs in the tower.
Loading Image...

That allowed me to see /both/ terabyte HDDs when I booted to the new one.
Loading Image...

Since I don't care at all about the programs or the operating system, all I
need to copy safely over is the data.
Loading Image...

I already copied the data (using Knoppix) but I will likely make a second
copy with Windows since it was only the operating system that was bricked
by the MS Windows 10 Pro update.
Loading Image...

In the end, I will have two almost empty terabyte hard disk drives, so I'll
probably either make one Linux and the other Windows or just RAID them
(although I've never RAIDed anything before).

[Mike S]

Post by VanguardLH

Post by ultred ragnusen
SOLVED: How to download an ISO image for Office 2007 Pro in the year 2018
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12.jpg
AFAIK, none of this is on the web, at least based on the results from my
searches today.
The situation is that my Win10 Pro HDD was bricked by a Microsoft Update
such that I bought a new HDD and now wish to install MS Office Pro 2007
given that I saved the 25-character product key from the old installation
(which I wrote on the case of the computer).
Googling for where to download an Office 2007 Pro ISO, I first find the
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_install-mso_other/where-to-get-download-an-iso-image-for-office-2007/0ecbdfea-954c-46c3-a359-0cce4d09837e
"Microsoft no longer provides digital downloads for the Office 2007 suite.
If you need to reinstall Office 2007, request a backup disk."
That "request a backup disk" link is no longer found.
http://www.microsoft.com/office/backup/en-us/default.mspx
A second suggested link is also dead.
http://www.microsoft.com/office/downloads
A third suggested link gives options for recent but not old Office versions
https://www.microsoft.com/ja-jp/store/b/office?culture=en-US&activetab=tab%3ahomeorpersonal
A fourth suggested link comes up as an untrusted connection.
https://www2.downloadoffice2010.microsoft.com/o12/registerkey.aspx?culture=en-GB&ref=o12
That untrusted connection refers the user only to an Office 2010 download
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office?culture=en-GB&ref=o12
A fifth link brings up a current Office 2016 download web page
http://tinyurl.com/officebackuplink
A sixth link, which is a repeat, says that it will work for older s/w.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office?culture=en-US&ref=o12
But when I enter my valid 25-character code for Office 2007 Pro, it first
says "Validating your request. This may take several minutes. Do not
refresh the page or select back, doing so will cancel the request"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_01.jpg
And then "Error. Support for the product you are trying to download has
ended. Please refer back to the main page for a list of supported
products."
A sixth link says you can order a replacement from [phone]
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-windows_install/replacement-cd/fb8230d4-000f-4ee7-b732-c9f8fff28bfd
A person picked up the phone who asked what product and then they put me on
permanent hold it seems... where I was eventually disconnected. I called
again and they put me on hold but said to write down this number if I got
disconnected again 800-642-7676 after which they put me on hold when,
finally, another person answered the phone.
After asking my name, he validated my 25-character Office 2007 Pro key and
asked if I wanted to use Support-LogMeInRescue.exe which I declined so he
provided the URL below.
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/01/310885730-21411266--NOA//office2010/X16-69453.exe
Unfortunately that URL simply went to the following Home Use Program page.
https://www.microsofthup.com/hupus/home.aspx
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_02.jpg
So I downloaded the "logmein" applet from this web page he provided.
http://support.microsoft.com/help which took us to http://office.com/backup
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_03.jpg
Running LogMeIn to give him the six-digit ID it generated gave him access
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_04.jpg
Once on my system, he was able to try the same URL that he had given me.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_05.jpg
Of course, that didn't result in anything different than what I received,
so he had another person join the connection, who gave a different URL
which also failed to work on my system using the default browser setup.
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/xxxxxxxx-012SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283-X12-30283.exe
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10.jpg
Finally, as I grabbed my camera because screeenshots were not working, he
gave up and used Internet Explorer to go first to this link, which doesn't
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=255141
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10a.jpg
And then he went to the canonical location for Microsoft Office 2007 Pro,
which he said is a public address on the "wayback"
machine that is for anyone to use (but I redacted a few bits just in case I
understood him wrong).
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111xxxxxx/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10b.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10d.jpg
X12-30196.exe
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10c.jpg
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_10e.jpg
I don't know where the file went though, as I can't find it anymore.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11.jpg
Then he extracted the 386 MB file
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11a.jpg
And when he executed it, up came a form where he entered my 25-character
product key.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11b.jpg
Then he chose "Install Now".
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11c.jpg
Which installed Microsoft Office Pro 2007 after he ran the installer which
brought up a notice that "Microsoft Office 2007 Professional has been
successfully installed"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11d.jpg
And then he clicked on "Go to Office Online" which brought up an activation
wizard
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12a.jpg
But the activation wizard had a communication error, when, I think, he
"A communication error has occurred. Your request cannot be processed at
this time. Please try again in a few minutes."
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_13.jpg
So he selected "I want to activate the software by telephone"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_14.jpg
Then the "Microsoft Office Professional 2007 Activation Wizard" came up
0xxxxx-7xxxxx-3xxxxx-2xxxxx-9xxxxx-1xxxxx-0xxxxx-2xxxxx-4xxxxx
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_15.jpg
After a long while, he entered in a 42-digit "Conformation Code"
0xxxxx-2xxxxx-0xxxxx-1xxxxx-7xxxxx-5xxxxx-6xxxxx
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_16.jpg
When then said it was activated.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_17.jpg
Finally he tested Microsoft Office 2007 Pro by opening up MS Word.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12.jpg
I looked for the installation file to archive but I couldn't find it, and
the original link, which was in my browser memory, times out now.
When I asked if I could communicate the URLs, the support guy said they're
public, but I wasn't sure if I can put them here, so maybe you can let me
know if they're public or not for sure, as I heard him and understood him
but it seems like the numbers may be specific to me?
Are the URLs above specific to me or generic for everyone?
If not, I can post the URL so that I benefit in the future (when my machine
crashes again as I don't know how to archive that which they downloaded and
installed) and so that others can who need a copy of MS Office 2007 that
they can activate with their own legal key.

A lot less hassle if you had not lost the install CD for Office 2007.
If you ever find it, make a duplicate and store elsewhere.

I like saving ISOs in 2 locations.

[mick]

Post by ultred ragnusen
I looked for the installation file to archive but I couldn't find it, and
the original link, which was in my browser memory, times out now.

The installation file maybe in your C:\users\[name]\App Data\Local\Temp
folder.

[Shadow]

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:27:57 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen
And then he went to the canonical location for Microsoft Office 2007 Pro,
which he said is a public address on the "wayback"
machine that is for anyone to use (but I redacted a few bits just in case I
understood him wrong).
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111xxxxxx/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe

Hopeless, no resume and all downloads stop after 100-200MB

Looks like he installed the original (more) buggy 2007
version.
The last (less buggy) version (from 2011) was X16-69453.exe

I found it here:

http://msassist.com/files/MSOffice/2007/Pro/X16-69453.exe

Checksums appear to be OK.
Dunno, using stuff from M$ is risky.....
(I use LibreOffice)
[]'s

[...w¡ñ§±¤ñ]

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:27:57 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen
And then he went to the canonical location for Microsoft Office 2007 Pro,
which he said is a public address on the "wayback"
machine that is for anyone to use (but I redacted a few bits just in case I
understood him wrong).
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111xxxxxx/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe

Hopeless, no resume and all downloads stop after 100-200MB
Looks like he installed the original (more) buggy 2007
version.

The link worked fine in IE, Edge, and SeaMonkey

X12-30196.exe from the above link
388 MB or 397,472 KB
Serial No. 61469ecb000400000065
Digital Signature Oct. 2006 indicates the RTM version(which would
require SP3 to bring up to date).
O2K7 SP3 =>
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=27838>


Also, temporarily restored a clean/no other software Win10 Pro 1709
16299.125 image to a few months old 8th gen i7 device and O2K7 Pro
installed and activated fine using a valid, no longer needed, never used
O2K7 Pro Product key.

[Shadow]

Post by ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:27:57 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen
And then he went to the canonical location for Microsoft Office 2007 Pro,
which he said is a public address on the "wayback"
machine that is for anyone to use (but I redacted a few bits just in case I
understood him wrong).
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111xxxxxx/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe

Hopeless, no resume and all downloads stop after 100-200MB
Looks like he installed the original (more) buggy 2007
version.

The link worked fine in IE, Edge, and SeaMonkey

Well, I tried uGet, Firefox and cURL ....
Glad to hear it worked for you.
It's still the older non-patched version though ...
[]'s

Post by ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
X12-30196.exe from the above link
388 MB or 397,472 KB
Serial No. 61469ecb000400000065
Digital Signature Oct. 2006 indicates the RTM version(which would
require SP3 to bring up to date).
O2K7 SP3 =>
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=27838>
Also, temporarily restored a clean/no other software Win10 Pro 1709
16299.125 image to a few months old 8th gen i7 device and O2K7 Pro
installed and activated fine using a valid, no longer needed, never used
O2K7 Pro Product key.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Shadow
Well, I tried uGet, Firefox and cURL ....
Glad to hear it worked for you.
It's still the older non-patched version though ...

None of the Microsoft-provided URLs worked for me just now using IE (which
is what they used).

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
The link worked fine in IE, Edge, and SeaMonkey
X12-30196.exe from the above link
388 MB or 397,472 KB
Serial No. 61469ecb000400000065
Digital Signature Oct. 2006 indicates the RTM version(which would
require SP3 to bring up to date).
O2K7 SP3 =>
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=27838>

Since I had redacted some of the characters, I'm curious, how did you get
the link that MS used for me to work for you? (And why does it time out of
me when I try it now?)

http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/01/209774629-10300055--NOA//office2010/X16-69453.exe
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/32000519-3082940-O12SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283/X12-30283.exe

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Shadow

Post by ultred ragnusen
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111xxxxxx/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe

Hopeless, no resume and all downloads stop after 100-200MB

I redacted some of the characters because I wasn't sure if it was a URL for
just me, but now that I know the URL is generic, this is the URL he used.
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111100736/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe

Post by Shadow
Looks like he installed the original (more) buggy 2007
version.
The last (less buggy) version (from 2011) was X16-69453.exe
http://msassist.com/files/MSOffice/2007/Pro/X16-69453.exe

I don't know what the numbers mean, so may I ask what's the difference
between
- X12-30196.exe
- X16-69453.exe

Post by Shadow
Checksums appear to be OK.

Here is my checksum from the download you kindly provided (from msassist).
How do I know it's right?

---------------------------
Checksum information
---------------------------
Name: X16-69453.exe
Size: 169064886 bytes (161 MB)

CRC32: 187C16BB

CRC64: F20D53361E92C35B

SHA256: 1593ECCB15D6B50A4FDAA1CB9C8FEC51B107CB3E99D59C1DCDD13F95D372DCDA

SHA1: EA2A8AA5C528CEB3BAAA76F46B0A6B113561947B

BLAKE2sp: 312C5DD3B336A932C9D6A9BF19A494CF7E5A1D8A3F6647977C3B26672D2F98A1

---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

[Paul]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Shadow

Post by ultred ragnusen
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111xxxxxx/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe

Hopeless, no resume and all downloads stop after 100-200MB

I redacted some of the characters because I wasn't sure if it was a URL for
just me, but now that I know the URL is generic, this is the URL he used.
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111100736/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe

Post by Shadow
Looks like he installed the original (more) buggy 2007
version.
The last (less buggy) version (from 2011) was X16-69453.exe
http://msassist.com/files/MSOffice/2007/Pro/X16-69453.exe

I don't know what the numbers mean, so may I ask what's the difference
between
- X12-30196.exe
- X16-69453.exe

Post by Shadow
Checksums appear to be OK.

Here is my checksum from the download you kindly provided (from msassist).
How do I know it's right?
---------------------------
Checksum information
---------------------------
Name: X16-69453.exe
Size: 169064886 bytes (161 MB)
CRC32: 187C16BB
CRC64: F20D53361E92C35B
SHA256: 1593ECCB15D6B50A4FDAA1CB9C8FEC51B107CB3E99D59C1DCDD13F95D372DCDA
SHA1: EA2A8AA5C528CEB3BAAA76F46B0A6B113561947B
BLAKE2sp: 312C5DD3B336A932C9D6A9BF19A494CF7E5A1D8A3F6647977C3B26672D2F98A1
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

The numbers are part of labeling Stock Keeping Units.

Software is available for a number of languages or countries.

For example, a person in the US and a person in Canada, get
different media for OS installs when buying an OS at the store.
When I seen an item for sale, that lists something like that, I
try to trace down whether it's actually meant for my country
or not.

*******

As for your checksums, I ran a few on Virustotal.com and got no match.
I tried Google (who owns Virustotal) and got no match there either.
The software in question could have been repacked by someone.

Using your link, I started that msassist download too, and the
file is larger than 161MB. I got

X16-69453.exe 420,496,200 bytes
SHA256: EF7A104E2CD4A75B5EF1CBBDC7D0F51B26DDEEFFF2BF0C9CF73844FC0C5D76D7
SHA1: 8AFE76D90D07B76CD651E8AF144B403F110D5328

Again, Virustotal.com didn't have it, but because fo the size, only
the side-door "well-known ISOs" can be found in a search there.

Whereas using Google search, I end up here.

http://www.nsaneforums.com/topic/271438-help-activate-microsoft-office-professional-plus-2007/

Somebody refers to those checksums as belonging to:

http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe

You need to re-download from the msassist site, as your file is *truncated*.

Also, if you check the properties of the file you got, there
is a digital signature tab. Which is potentially, another way
to detect alteration.

Paul

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Paul
You need to re-download from the msassist site, as your file is *truncated*.

Thanks Paul for checking up on that data.
This is interesting, so I tried again, where you were right! Thanks!

BTW, these seem to be the URLs given, so far, for the Office 2007 Pro iso.

1. From Microsoft, but didn't work for Micrsosoft or for me.
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/01/209774629-10300055--NOA//office2010/X16-69453.exe

2. From Microsoft, and which is what they used, but it no longer works for
me.
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/32000519-3082940-O12SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283/X12-30283.exe

3. I don't remember who posted this link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111100736/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe

4. From Shadow (see checksums from the second attempt below)
http://msassist.com/files/MSOffice/2007/Pro/X16-69453.exe

5. From Paul:
http://msassist.com/files/MSOffice/2007/Pro/X16-69453.exe

6. From Paul:
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe


Here are the checksums from the Shadow download #4 above (the second time).
---------------------------
Checksum information
---------------------------
Name: X16-69453.exe
Size: 420496200 bytes (401 MB)

CRC32: C7B5CFD5

CRC64: 8CEE0C2A3CED82CD

SHA256: EF7A104E2CD4A75B5EF1CBBDC7D0F51B26DDEEFFF2BF0C9CF73844FC0C5D76D7

SHA1: 8AFE76D90D07B76CD651E8AF144B403F110D5328

BLAKE2sp: 5AADD6C47870D8160AEA94A22B8D4F3E57E59154ED5AE2A8AEA39F76163AEF41

---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

[Paul]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Paul
You need to re-download from the msassist site, as your file is *truncated*.

Thanks Paul for checking up on that data.
This is interesting, so I tried again, where you were right! Thanks!
BTW, these seem to be the URLs given, so far, for the Office 2007 Pro iso.
1. From Microsoft, but didn't work for Micrsosoft or for me.
http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/01/209774629-10300055--NOA//office2010/X16-69453.exe
2. From Microsoft, and which is what they used, but it no longer works for
me.
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/32000519-3082940-O12SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283/X12-30283.exe
http://web.archive.org/web/20120111100736/http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe
4. From Shadow (see checksums from the second attempt below)
http://msassist.com/files/MSOffice/2007/Pro/X16-69453.exe
http://msassist.com/files/MSOffice/2007/Pro/X16-69453.exe
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/msoffice/pub/X12-30196/X12-30196.exe
Here are the checksums from the Shadow download #4 above (the second time).
---------------------------
Checksum information
---------------------------
Name: X16-69453.exe
Size: 420496200 bytes (401 MB)
CRC32: C7B5CFD5
CRC64: 8CEE0C2A3CED82CD
SHA256: EF7A104E2CD4A75B5EF1CBBDC7D0F51B26DDEEFFF2BF0C9CF73844FC0C5D76D7
SHA1: 8AFE76D90D07B76CD651E8AF144B403F110D5328
BLAKE2sp: 5AADD6C47870D8160AEA94A22B8D4F3E57E59154ED5AE2A8AEA39F76163AEF41
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

I didn't originate any of those links.

I just double checked on the hunch that the Office
file seemed "a little small". Usually Microsoft puts
more materials on their media, even if the "filler"
is a video or something.

Normally, I'd use Heidoc, but the site it pumps for the
files is retiring the content, and so a lot of stuff
is just gone. That happened in only the last few months.

DigitalRiver (a private company), the deal with Microsoft
was shut down some number of years ago. You cannot expect
the links from that era to remain functional. Whereas
an archive.org link could indeed have captured content,
but to avoid big bandwidth bills, they will sometimes
review the capture and remove stuff like that. Actually,
I'm quite surprised anything on the DigitalRiver site
would make it into archive.org because of Norobots.txt.
A commercial site, selling software, shouldn't really be
running without a Norobots.txt "showing in the window".

And downloading from random sites is OK, as long as you
have a relatively strong correlation signal that the
checksums are real. At one time, MDL used to have lists
of checksums. Or MSDN subscription site had MD5 in the
window for people to see (it took a while for them to
switch to SHA1). But they removed those hashes in an
attempt to reduce the trustworthiness of MSDN redistributed
content (so people Torrenting could no longer look
on the Microsoft site and verify the file really
was legit). It's just a wee bit harder today to vet
stuff, than several years ago. MDL hides some of their
posts (holds them in "members only" status), so Microsoft
cannot see what they're talking about. Plenty of paranoia
to go around, that's for sure.

Paul

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Paul
I just double checked on the hunch that the Office
file seemed "a little small". Usually Microsoft puts
more materials on their media, even if the "filler"
is a video or something.

Well, for now, I'll keep what Microsoft downloaded and activated, and I'll
keep that software Shadow provided, just in case.

BTW, I finally found on the bricked HDD the 14 screenshots I had made of
exactly what happened to brick my system in late January. Bear in mind that
I had modified the OS such that Windows 10 Pro had /never/ updated
successfully ever before. I don't know how long I staved off that update
... maybe more than a year ... maybe even two years? I don't remember how
long but it was long.

Then when it finally updated, WHAM! Microsoft bricked my system.
Here are the 14 screenshots...Can you make any sense out of what happened?

01 Your device needs the latest security updates (99%)
01 06:29AM 25-Jan-18 Thursday Loading Image...
I clicked on the "Learn More" button...

02 http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=849060
02 06:30AM 25-Jan-18 Thursday Loading Image...

04 Some versions of Windows 10 display a notification to install the latest
version
03 06:55AM 25-Jan-18 Thursday Loading Image...

04 Update to the latest version of Windows 10
04 07:45PM 25-Jan-18 Thursday Loading Image...

05 Congratulations, this PC is compatible
05 07:45PM 25-Jan-18 Thursday Loading Image...

06 Getting your update ready (0%)
06 07:46PM 25-Jan-18 Thursday Loading Image...

07 Getting your update ready (68%)
07 08:52PM 25-Jan-18 Thursday Loading Image...

08 Getting your update ready (99%)
08 06:01AM 26-Jan-18 Friday Loading Image...

09 Update to the latest version of Windows 10
09 08:02AM 26-Jan-18 Friday Loading Image...

10 Checking device compatibility
10 08:02AM 26-Jan-18 Friday Loading Image...

11 Congratulations, this PC is compatible
11 08:02AM 26-Jan-18 Friday Loading Image...

12 Getting your update ready (0%)
12 08:03AM 26-Jan-18 Friday Loading Image...

13 Getting your update ready (92%)
13 10:12AM 26-Jan-18 Friday Loading Image...

14 Getting your update ready (99%)
14 02:47AM 27-Jan-18 Saturday Loading Image...

[Paul]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Paul
I just double checked on the hunch that the Office
file seemed "a little small". Usually Microsoft puts
more materials on their media, even if the "filler"
is a video or something.

Well, for now, I'll keep what Microsoft downloaded and activated, and I'll
keep that software Shadow provided, just in case.
BTW, I finally found on the bricked HDD the 14 screenshots I had made of
exactly what happened to brick my system in late January. Bear in mind that
I had modified the OS such that Windows 10 Pro had /never/ updated
successfully ever before. I don't know how long I staved off that update
... maybe more than a year ... maybe even two years? I don't remember how
long but it was long.
Then when it finally updated, WHAM! Microsoft bricked my system.
Here are the 14 screenshots...Can you make any sense out of what happened?
01 Your device needs the latest security updates (99%)
01 06:29AM 25-Jan-18 Thursday http://i.cubeupload.com/My174i.jpg
I clicked on the "Learn More" button...
02 http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=849060
02 06:30AM 25-Jan-18 Thursday http://i.cubeupload.com/0lxuPw.jpg
04 Some versions of Windows 10 display a notification to install the latest
version
03 06:55AM 25-Jan-18 Thursday http://i.cubeupload.com/Z2ZaDz.jpg
04 Update to the latest version of Windows 10
04 07:45PM 25-Jan-18 Thursday http://i.cubeupload.com/gQGe5w.jpg
05 Congratulations, this PC is compatible
05 07:45PM 25-Jan-18 Thursday http://i.cubeupload.com/Y34trY.jpg
06 Getting your update ready (0%)
06 07:46PM 25-Jan-18 Thursday http://i.cubeupload.com/FHzWVs.jpg
07 Getting your update ready (68%)
07 08:52PM 25-Jan-18 Thursday http://i.cubeupload.com/IF2Vlc.jpg
08 Getting your update ready (99%)
08 06:01AM 26-Jan-18 Friday http://i.cubeupload.com/8v82ir.jpg
09 Update to the latest version of Windows 10
09 08:02AM 26-Jan-18 Friday http://i.cubeupload.com/HfYA6Z.jpg
10 Checking device compatibility
10 08:02AM 26-Jan-18 Friday http://i.cubeupload.com/SBiaqx.jpg
11 Congratulations, this PC is compatible
11 08:02AM 26-Jan-18 Friday http://i.cubeupload.com/FwZLFW.jpg
12 Getting your update ready (0%)
12 08:03AM 26-Jan-18 Friday http://i.cubeupload.com/Mu43Tx.jpg
13 Getting your update ready (92%)
13 10:12AM 26-Jan-18 Friday http://i.cubeupload.com/3L67JF.jpg
14 Getting your update ready (99%)
14 02:47AM 27-Jan-18 Saturday http://i.cubeupload.com/tV9jYD.jpg

OK, so that's the 16299 Upgrade from Nov 2017 or so.
The release is 1709 (September) but the release date
is mid-October, and I think I installed that in
early November (no problems to report). My Insider Editions
also received it - the Insider and the Release version
cross paths on Upgrades like that, and then the Insider
diverges again, to higher Release numbers.

In your case, your 16299 must have been gated by something, that
prevented it from being installed in the first place. In some cases,
it's as simple a thing as a missing video driver. If you install
from a DVD, it will actually run with the Microsoft Basic Display
Adapter (a.k.a. VESA in-box driver). Whereas that cute little stub
downloader method, it wouldn't go unless it had a real video
driver to use.

Some devices (tablets) are "harder to install" than other
computing devices. and the install recipe takes more time
to figure out and deploy. The 32GB eMMC flash equipped
tablets, are a little to short on storage space for
Upgrades to be entered easily.

When the install starts, Windows is copied to Windows.old.
Some (but not all) Program Files content is also copied to
Windows.old. This would include programs that MS wants to
delete because they're "not compatible" with the new OS.
The user is supposed to run off and download new Win32
style versions of the removed EXEs and friends.

A lot of the install process does "migration". This seems to
include reinstalling applications, using .msi files archived
on C: .

At the current time, the installer is designed to do as much
staging of the install as possible, before the machine starts
with the multiple reboot cycles. This is to reduce the time
the machine is unavailable to the user.

There are two log files. One log file covers the "copy files"
phase of installation and that's all. The second log file is
stored in a different place, and it keeps the results of the
multitude or reboots. The time stamps on the files are
also different, with one file using local time, and the
other file using UTC or something. I think my files have
a five hour difference or something, which complicates
relating what happened later.

I've never heard of the OS installer doing CHKDSK before
starting the install. It would generally be a good idea to
do that. The reason it doesn't normally happen, is Microsoft
invented a "background CHKDSK" process, that keeps track
of system state. (They released some P.R. material claiming
to have made the file system "more robust", but I've never
seen actual technical details.) And it should be removing
simple latent faults. It there is a fault in the file
system, it's not supposed to fester, and it should
be getting corrected. That's why the scan dialog claims
"you don't need to scan this partition, but suit yourself"
kind of message. It's bragging on their part.

However, my recent experience suggests that system is
switched off. I could see no evidence anything was
working to repair obvious problems. Which means the
checking it does, must be limited to journal style
checks and balances. "Did file A get installed, go check."
And done with journal logic. When I had file system problems,
they weren't repaired on a reboot. If a simple check is
being done on the partition at boot time, it didn't
do anything.

If you have latent faults in a file system, then you
do 20GB of writes to the drive, who knows what could
happen.

You seem convinced the drive is healthy today, and all
I can recommend, is keep track of C: health with CHKDSK
from now on. You don't have to run it every day, but you
also don't want another OS upgrade coming in, without
checking things out. There is another OS upgrade coming
soon, which is why they were in a hurry to shovel that
one into your machine.

Paul

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Paul
OK, so that's the 16299 Upgrade from Nov 2017 or so.
The release is 1709 (September) but the release date
is mid-October, and I think I installed that in
early November (no problems to report). My Insider Editions
also received it - the Insider and the Release version
cross paths on Upgrades like that, and then the Insider
diverges again, to higher Release numbers.

Thanks for figuring out that the upgrade that bricked me was the 16299
Upgrade from November 2017 (1709 release).

I looked back at all my failed updates where the release I think I was on
at the time of the bricking was in my log files as:
. Check your OS version:
Start > Settings > PC Settings > System > About
Windows 10 Pro Version 1511 OS Build 10586.1106

I'm not quite sure exactly what happened, but I think this was the
sequence.

1. I had Windows 10 Pro set up to never update ever again (and it worked).
2. Windows 10 Pro was just fine, stuck at Version 1511 OS Build 10586.1106
3. All subsequent updates failed, but automatically backed themselves out
4. The 16299 Upgrade from Nov 2017 failed, but didn't back itself out

I think that's what happened, but I'm not totally sure because all I know
is that my machine never updated, which was fine by me, but I don't
remember which setting that did that as I had changed them all.

[Zaidy036]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Paul
OK, so that's the 16299 Upgrade from Nov 2017 or so.
The release is 1709 (September) but the release date
is mid-October, and I think I installed that in
early November (no problems to report). My Insider Editions
also received it - the Insider and the Release version
cross paths on Upgrades like that, and then the Insider
diverges again, to higher Release numbers.

Thanks for figuring out that the upgrade that bricked me was the 16299
Upgrade from November 2017 (1709 release).
I looked back at all my failed updates where the release I think I was on
Start > Settings > PC Settings > System > About
Windows 10 Pro Version 1511 OS Build 10586.1106
I'm not quite sure exactly what happened, but I think this was the
sequence.
1. I had Windows 10 Pro set up to never update ever again (and it worked).
2. Windows 10 Pro was just fine, stuck at Version 1511 OS Build 10586.1106
3. All subsequent updates failed, but automatically backed themselves out
4. The 16299 Upgrade from Nov 2017 failed, but didn't back itself out
I think that's what happened, but I'm not totally sure because all I know
is that my machine never updated, which was fine by me, but I don't
remember which setting that did that as I had changed them all.

I suggest that when you mod the registry you make two Regedit files. One
with the original settings and one with your mods. Then before any MS
upgrades run the Original Regedit file. After you can run your mod file or
at least use it to compare to current registry to see what MS has done.

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Zaidy036
I suggest that when you mod the registry you make two Regedit files. One
with the original settings and one with your mods. Then before any MS
upgrades run the Original Regedit file. After you can run your mod file or
at least use it to compare to current registry to see what MS has done.

Thanks for that helpful suggestion where I understand what you're
suggesting, and where I have been keeping separate log files for the past
year or so on the modifications.

Problem is that there are now literally /hundreds/ of those log files, each
one of which is a /customization/ of Windows in some fashion.
Loading Image...

I think, moving forward with this new Windows 10 Pro installation, I'll try
to see if I can get used to that seemingly idiotic touch-screen default
menu (whatever it's called) so that I can customize it to be a replacement
for the simple efficient cascaded start menu of the days of old that no
longer exists (outside of classic shell customizations).
Loading Image...

[Shadow]

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 23:30:27 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen
4. From Shadow (see checksums from the second attempt below)
http://msassist.com/files/MSOffice/2007/Pro/X16-69453.exe

.....

Post by ultred ragnusen
Here are the checksums from the Shadow download #4 above (the second time).
---------------------------
Checksum information
---------------------------
Name: X16-69453.exe
Size: 420496200 bytes (401 MB)
CRC32: C7B5CFD5
CRC64: 8CEE0C2A3CED82CD
SHA256: EF7A104E2CD4A75B5EF1CBBDC7D0F51B26DDEEFFF2BF0C9CF73844FC0C5D76D7
SHA1: 8AFE76D90D07B76CD651E8AF144B403F110D5328

MD5: fda900d81f65d1b5b35f98bd76177d55
SHA-1: 8afe76d90d07b76cd651e8af144b403f110d5328
SHA-256:
ef7a104e2cd4a75b5ef1cbbdc7d0f51b26ddeefff2bf0c9cf73844fc0c5d76d7

= as yours

File properties

X16-69453.exe

401 MB (420.496.200 bytes)

Date June 23 2011 21:00 (wget keeps the original file date)

Version 12.0.6500.5000

.................. matches yours, but I have no idea if it's legit.
Virustotal does not do files that big.

I got the filename from here:
https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technology-science/microsoft/51-office-2007-direct-download-links

No links are active, though.

And Microsoft blocks the links to the checksums on archive.org. To
keep you "safe and secure", I suppose.
;)
[]'s

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Shadow
matches yours, but I have no idea if it's legit.

Thanks for checking the checksums.
I'll burn it to DVD and write on it to only use in emergencies.

Thanks!

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:27:57 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen
SOLVED: How to download an ISO image for Office 2007 Pro in the year 2018
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12.jpg
AFAIK, none of this is on the web, at least based on the results from my
searches today.
The situation is that my Win10 Pro HDD was bricked by a Microsoft Update
such that I bought a new HDD and now wish to install MS Office Pro 2007
given that I saved the 25-character product key from the old installation
(which I wrote on the case of the computer).

How can software damage a hard drive?
Did you try reformatting the old hard drive?

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Lucifer Morningstar
How can software damage a hard drive?
Did you try reformatting the old hard drive?

Nobody said the hard drive was damaged, and, in fact, the hard drive is
perfectly good as is the memory and the motherboard, all of which was
tested by Microsoft at the Microsoft Retail Store this week.

For the tribal-knowledge summary, what "appears" to have happened is:

a. The Win10 Pro was set up to never update
b. That worked for /years/
c. All updates would attempt, fail, and then back themselves out
d. However, this latest update tried that three times
e. Then it bricked the operating system

A. Microsoft phone technical support was unable to fix it
B. Microsoft retail store in-person support was unable to fix it

1. So I bought a new terabyte HDD and now there are two
2. I had to re-install Windows 10 Pro on the new HDD (no big deal)
3. The subject of this thread was how to re-install MS Office 2007 Pro

In the end, the problem for most users is WHERE to get a known good copy of
MS Office 2007 Pro now that Heidoc isn't working (supposedly), where
Microsoft got mine from these first two URLs (only the second of which
worked for them and neither appear to work for me now).

http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/01/209774629-10300055--NOA//office2010/X16-69453.exe
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/32000519-3082940-O12SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283/X12-30283.exe
http://msassist.com/files/MSOffice/2007/Pro/X16-69453.exe

The trick, of course, is to have saved your MS Office 2007 Pro key, where,
I believe, mine was saved by one of the archivers.

I don't remember which one of these gives the /real/ 25-character key?
a. Sandra?
b. Belarc?
c. ShowKeyPlus?
d. MagicalJellyBean keyfinder <== I think it was this?
e. ?

PS: Why didn't anyone try Heidoc?
https://www.heidoc.net/php/Windows%20ISO%20Downloader.exe

Does Heidoc no longer work?
Loading Image...

[Paul]

Post by ultred ragnusen
PS: Why didn't anyone try Heidoc?
https://www.heidoc.net/php/Windows%20ISO%20Downloader.exe
Does Heidoc no longer work?
https://s3.postimg.org/jjlidxrir/heidoc_win10.gif

Test it and see ? The tool is re-released at regular intervals,
to counteract Microsoft meddling. As content is retired on
the actual Microsoft sourcing server, the menu on Heidoc
has a smaller and smaller list of categories.

You will need to get the most recent version, read the
release info, to get some idea what the author of Heidoc
is dealing with (this week).

Heidoc still works, but the menu could be smaller than before.

*******

Heidoc contains a coin miner, a coin miner provided by a
certain coin miner SDK. In other words, it tries to be
obvious and up-front about what it's doing.

The tool will ask you (politely) whether you will allow the
coin miner to run (for the duration of the time you allow
Heidoc to run on your system). Heidoc only need run for five
minutes or less, to copy a couple URLs using the copy buttons,
into Notepad or Firefox. Once Heidoc fakes a session with the
Microsoft server, and gets the URLs, you can dismiss Heidoc
for the hours it takes Firefox to do the actual download.

The presences of the coin miner SDK, could set off your various
AV softwares.

I can't really guess what fractions of a penny the guy gets
from doing that, but I suppose it's better than trying to
coat the interface in spam adverts.

Paul

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Paul

Post by ultred ragnusen
Does Heidoc no longer work?
https://s3.postimg.org/jjlidxrir/heidoc_win10.gif

Test it and see ?

Hi Paul ... did you notice that screenshot was one that you posted a while
ago? I was googling for how to use Heidoc, and your helpful posts came up.

Post by Paul
Heidoc still works, but the menu could be smaller than before.

Thanks. Had I found Heidoc before I called Microsoft Office Support, I
would have tried that - but the support guys downloaded from this digital
river archive (which doesn't work for me now).
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/32000519-3082940-O12SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283/X12-30283.exe

[Paul]

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Paul

Post by ultred ragnusen
Does Heidoc no longer work?
https://s3.postimg.org/jjlidxrir/heidoc_win10.gif

Test it and see ?

Hi Paul ... did you notice that screenshot was one that you posted a while
ago? I was googling for how to use Heidoc, and your helpful posts came up.

Post by Paul
Heidoc still works, but the menu could be smaller than before.

Thanks. Had I found Heidoc before I called Microsoft Office Support, I
would have tried that - but the support guys downloaded from this digital
river archive (which doesn't work for me now).
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/32000519-3082940-O12SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283/X12-30283.exe

Microsoft has ways to generate folders like this dynamically.
The folders self-delete on the server side after 24 hours.

This is how Heidoc works too. The folders it gives access to, are
generated on-the-spot on the Microsoft side of the server, and
are valid for 24 hours.

When I bought two copies of Windows 8 electronically a few years
back, the download folder on those only existed for 24 hours.

Paul

[...w¡ñ§±¤ñ]

Post by Paul

Post by ultred ragnusen
Thanks. Had I found Heidoc before I called Microsoft Office Support, I
would have tried that - but the support guys downloaded from this digital
river archive (which doesn't work for me now).
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/32000519-3082940-O12SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283/X12-30283.exe

Microsoft has ways to generate folders like this dynamically.
The folders self-delete on the server side after 24 hours.

+1 to link expiration.

In this case(see the original post) X12-30283.exe was not the file MSFT
used to install O2K7 Pro that link didn't work. The install was
accomplished by using x12-301296 which is O2K7 Pro RTM.
"He downloaded to somewhere (I can't find it anymore) a file named:
X12-30196.exe.
....
Which installed Microsoft Office Pro 2007 after he ran the installer which
brought up a notice that "Microsoft Office 2007 Professional has been
successfully installed"
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_11d.jpg
</qp>
One can still obtain X12-30196.exe using the same link posted in the
initial thread).

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

Post by ultred ragnusen
SOLVED: How to download an ISO image for Office 2007 Pro in the year 2018
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/23/office2007_12.jpg
AFAIK, none of this is on the web, at least based on the results from my
searches today.
The situation is that my Win10 Pro HDD was bricked by a Microsoft Update
such that I bought a new HDD and now wish to install MS Office Pro 2007
given that I saved the 25-character product key from the old installation
(which I wrote on the case of the computer).

If you have a valid Office 2007 product key, you could download its
installer via Micro$oft's official website.

https://products.office.com/en/download-office-2007

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
If you have a valid Office 2007 product key, you could download its
installer via Micro$oft's official website.
https://products.office.com/en/download-office-2007

Hmmmmmmm.... I appreciate the help, particularly because we're now trying
to summarize for future tribal knowledge lookups, but if it was really that
simple, why did Microsoft Technical support, themselves, use this URL below
to install Microsoft Office 2007 Pro for me over the telephone?
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/32000519-3082940-O12SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283/X12-30283.exe

Nonetheless, for the tribal knowledge, I just tried that URL:
https://products.office.com/en/download-office-2007

Which says "Office 2007 is now retired".
Loading Image...

They have a "find more information" button here.
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Office-Retirement/ct-p/OfficeRetirement

Which starts off with "Farewell, Office 2007", saying "It's been a great
run, but it's time to move on...".
Loading Image...

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
https://products.office.com/en/download-office-2007
Which says "Office 2007 is now retired".
http://wetakepic.com/images/2018/02/28/office2007retired.jpg

I downloaded the installer earlier this year using a valid product key,
if I remember correctly.

That page leads to the following page after you hit "Download" under
Micro$oft Office 2007 Resources, which allows you to enter the product key:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office?culture=en-US&ref=o12

[...w¡ñ§±¤ñ]

I downloaded the installer earlier this year using a valid product key, if
I remember correctly.

That option only functioned with a valid retail full version product key and
the ability to download O2K7 from that site was discontinued well before
'earlier this year'

You're memory is off by more than a few months.

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

Post by ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
I downloaded the installer earlier this year using a valid product
key, if I remember correctly.

That option only functioned with a valid retail full version product key
and the ability to download O2K7 from that site was discontinued well
before 'earlier this year'
You're memory is off by more than a few months.

But that product key option is still there in the webpage. I suppose you
could still do it now. If the service was discontinued, that webpage
should not have a textbox for product key.

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

Post by ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
You're memory is off by more than a few months.

I just checked that I downloaded it in September 2017. Surprised that
those 2007 links was closed so soon.

[...w¡ñ§±¤ñ]

Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
I just checked that I downloaded it in September 2017. Surprised that
those 2007 links was closed so soon.

Pretty much on schedule. 10 yrs. was probably enough time to plan and queue
up a toggle off and web page modification at EOL.

Office 2007 support ended on Oct. 10, 2007
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3198497/office-2007-approaching-end-of-extended-support

[Shadow]

Post by ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
I just checked that I downloaded it in September 2017. Surprised that
those 2007 links was closed so soon.

Pretty much on schedule. 10 yrs. was probably enough time to plan and queue
up a toggle off and web page modification at EOL.
Office 2007 support ended on Oct. 10, 2007
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3198497/office-2007-approaching-end-of-extended-support

Link does not exist, but I think you typoed

Office 2007 reached its end of support on October 10, 2017.

BTW LibreOffice support never ends.
;)
[]'s

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

Post by Shadow
Link does not exist, but I think you typoed
Office 2007 reached its end of support on October 10, 2017.
BTW LibreOffice support never ends.
;)

Office 2007 is good enough for most users. Could someone tell me what's
special with Office 2010, 2013 and 2016? Cloud? Come on... we don't
usually share data with others....

[ultred ragnusen]

Post by Shadow
Link does not exist, but I think you typoed
Office 2007 reached its end of support on October 10, 2017.

The link worked for me, but maybe we're talking about different links.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3198497/office-2007-approaching-end-of-extended-support

Summary
Office 2007 has reached the end of its support lifecycle, meaning there are
no new security updates, non-security updates, free or paid assisted
support options, or online technical content updates. Customers who are
using Office 2007 products and services should move to Office 365 or
upgrade to supported versions of Office products and services, such as
Office 2016.

Tribal knowledge note: They supported me, so while "official" support has
ended, they still supported me, and I'm nothing special...(and where I
agree with the sentiment that Office 2007 is good enough for me).

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

Post by ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ
Pretty much on schedule. 10 yrs. was probably enough time to plan and
queue up a toggle off and web page modification at EOL.
Office 2007 support ended on Oct. 10, 2007
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3198497/office-2007-approaching-end-of-extended-support

I didn't bother to remember these dates. I guess I was lucky enough to
download it before that deadline.

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

Post by ultred ragnusen
Hmmmmmmm.... I appreciate the help, particularly because we're now trying
to summarize for future tribal knowledge lookups, but if it was really that
simple, why did Microsoft Technical support, themselves, use this URL below
to install Microsoft Office 2007 Pro for me over the telephone?
http://msft-dnl.digitalrivercontent.net/01/32000519-3082940-O12SBATR-NOA/msoffice/pub/X12-30283/X12-30283.exe

I got a "File not found" error when I clicked it from Hong Kong. Maybe
it's a temporary link. Are you sure that you were talking to the real,
authentic Micro$oft tech support in your country? ;)

[Shadow]

On Wed, 28 Feb 2018 10:42:20 -0800, ultred ragnusen

Post by ultred ragnusen

Post by Mr. Man-wai Chang
If you have a valid Office 2007 product key, you could download its
installer via Micro$oft's official website.
https://products.office.com/en/download-office-2007

Hmmmmmmm.... I appreciate the help

Mai Wang Poo is a troll. He probably tried the link, saw it
didn't work and posted anyway ...
[]'s