GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of New Congress

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 11:27:00 -0500, burfordTjustice

Post by burfordTjustice
GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of
New Congress
http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-na

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trader_4

2017-01-06 16:14:45 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of
New Congress
http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/

My guess is that this is unconstitutional. Can the feds tell states
that they have to recognize another state's carry permit? Sounds
like a state's rights issue. And hypocrisy from those that claim to
be conservative, are against big govt, for state's rights, etc.

Oren

2017-01-06 17:38:26 UTC

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 08:14:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4

A driving license, a privilege, is allowed over state lines. Do you
really think a state can deny a constitutional right afforded under
the U.S. Constitution? People that are legal should not have a right
denied by a state -- period.

The Reciprocity Act has been around for a long time, but not passed.
Now is the time.

g***@aol.com

2017-01-06 18:49:12 UTC

Post by Oren
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 08:14:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4

A driving license, a privilege, is allowed over state lines. Do you
really think a state can deny a constitutional right afforded under
the U.S. Constitution? People that are legal should not have a right
denied by a state -- period.
The Reciprocity Act has been around for a long time, but not passed.
Now is the time.

I agree with the concept but the problem in a practical sense is CCW
training is mostly about the law and if the self defense laws are
different in each state you would pretty much have to be certified in
each state. If they said that after said training you were good to go,
I would agree it is OK.
You could probably break this down into 3 or 4 classes. It would range
from Texas where you can use force top protect property to dark blue
places where you can't even use force to defend yourself from
intruders in your own bedroom. (obligation to retreat).
My best buddy from school did time in Maryland for killing an intruder
with his bare hands. The prosecution argued that between punch 1 and 2
(the fatal one) he could have run out the door.

Tony944

2017-01-06 19:04:24 UTC

Post by Oren
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 08:14:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4

A driving license, a privilege, is allowed over state lines. Do you
really think a state can deny a constitutional right afforded under
the U.S. Constitution? People that are legal should not have a right
denied by a state -- period.
The Reciprocity Act has been around for a long time, but not passed.
Now is the time.

Oren

2017-01-06 19:43:08 UTC

Post by Oren
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 08:14:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4

A driving license, a privilege, is allowed over state lines. Do you
really think a state can deny a constitutional right afforded under
the U.S. Constitution? People that are legal should not have a right
denied by a state -- period.
The Reciprocity Act has been around for a long time, but not passed.
Now is the time.

You make a point of individual state laws.

"The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is a United States
federal law, enacted in 2004, that allows two classes of personsthe
"qualified law enforcement officer" and the "qualified retired law
enforcement officer"to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction
in the United States, regardless of state or local laws, with certain
exceptions."

I don't know every state law but I can carry under the current LEOSA
law, codified in federal law.

AFAIK self defense is allowed in every state and ruled upon by SCOTUS.

The Reciprocity Act is about "carry".

g***@aol.com

2017-01-06 20:27:36 UTC

Post by Oren
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 08:14:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4

A driving license, a privilege, is allowed over state lines. Do you
really think a state can deny a constitutional right afforded under
the U.S. Constitution? People that are legal should not have a right
denied by a state -- period.
The Reciprocity Act has been around for a long time, but not passed.
Now is the time.

You make a point of individual state laws.
"The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is a United States
federal law, enacted in 2004, that allows two classes of persons—the
"qualified law enforcement officer" and the "qualified retired law
enforcement officer"—to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction
in the United States, regardless of state or local laws, with certain
exceptions."
I don't know every state law but I can carry under the current LEOSA
law, codified in federal law.
AFAIK self defense is allowed in every state and ruled upon by SCOTUS.
The Reciprocity Act is about "carry".

The point is, once you get into the dark blue states where there is
virtually no CCW now, they have "the obligation to retreat" written
into their law so a "self defense" can be called murder if there was
any possible way to run away. They are even dodgy about protecting
others. Some define it is imminent fear of death, not even bodily
harm. Basically if a "reasonable person" thinks they will just be beat
"half" to death, it is not self defense to use deadly force,
particularly with a weapon.

trader_4

2017-01-06 20:34:54 UTC

Post by Oren
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 08:14:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4

A driving license, a privilege, is allowed over state lines. Do you
really think a state can deny a constitutional right afforded under
the U.S. Constitution? People that are legal should not have a right
denied by a state -- period.
The Reciprocity Act has been around for a long time, but not passed.
Now is the time.

Where's Kurt on the constitutionality of this? He's our resident
expert. Would be interesting to see his opinion.

rbowman

2017-01-07 03:06:01 UTC

Post by g***@aol.com
I agree with the concept but the problem in a practical sense is CCW
training is mostly about the law and if the self defense laws are
different in each state you would pretty much have to be certified in
each state. If they said that after said training you were good to go,
I would agree it is OK.

I took a CCW class a few years back out of curiosity since I never
bothered to get the permit. It was mostly firearm selection, safety, and
practical range time and very light on the legal aspects.

Maybe that's why this state doesn't have many reciprocal agreements :)

2017-01-07 17:43:16 UTC

Post by Oren
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 08:14:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4

A driving license, a privilege, is allowed over state lines. Do you
really think a state can deny a constitutional right afforded under
the U.S. Constitution? People that are legal should not have a right
denied by a state -- period.
The Reciprocity Act has been around for a long time, but not passed.
Now is the time.

Shadow

2017-01-07 18:38:29 UTC

Post by Oren
The Reciprocity Act has been around for a long time, but not passed.
Now is the time.

+2
Specially regarding Cannabis legalization.

As to the stupid federal law allowing "retired law enforcement
officers" allowed to carry concealed weapons, I really can't see any
advantages. They can't work outside their juristiction, and they are
retired .... maybe they think their lives are worth more than anyone
else's ?
[]'s

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

2017-01-07 20:08:14 UTC

Post by Shadow
As to the stupid federal law allowing "retired law enforcement
officers" allowed to carry concealed weapons, I really can't see any
advantages. They can't work outside their juristiction, and they are
retired .... maybe they think their lives are worth more than anyone
else's ?

Retired and off duty cops with concealed guns are stopping
crime all the time. More guns, less crime.

As far as pot goes. It is stupid to use. But, probably
less harmful to society than alcohol. We will see.
At least pot heads do not tend to drive and slaughter
innocents by the thousands.

I will make an exception on the stupid remark for
those who legitimately need it for medical reasons, like
to treat the side effects of chemo.

Do you realize how much safer pot is than the one
use additive designer opiates the allopaths prescribe?
What is the statistic, sometime like three times
the deaths to designer opiates than all the illegal
drugs combined? YIKES !!!!

My thoughts are that society should not stop folks
from taking drugs, as it is a fools errand. But
society should regulate the hell out of your behavior
under the influence. Drug test for jobs, lose your
car and go to jail if driving under the influence,
don't use around kids, no excuse for criminal behavior,
yada, yada, yada.

Back when drugs were legal, social pressure was far more
effective than prohibition.

Shadow

2017-01-08 00:59:21 UTC

Retired and off duty cops with concealed guns are stopping
crime all the time. More guns, less crime.

Of course. Not because they are retired or were cops. The
stupid part is a Federal law that says they can carry concealed
weapons, even if they went absolutely barmy since they retired, but an
honest working citizen does not have that right.

Post by T
As far as pot goes. It is stupid to use. But, probably
less harmful to society than alcohol. We will see.
At least pot heads do not tend to drive and slaughter
innocents by the thousands.
I will make an exception on the stupid remark for
those who legitimately need it for medical reasons, like
to treat the side effects of chemo.
Do you realize how much safer pot is than the one
use additive designer opiates the allopaths prescribe?
What is the statistic, sometime like three times
the deaths to designer opiates than all the illegal
drugs combined? YIKES !!!!

I am a doctor. You are preaching to the pope.. (assuming the
pope believes all that rubbish in the bible - I doubt it)

Post by T
My thoughts are that society should not stop folks
from taking drugs, as it is a fools errand. But
society should regulate the hell out of your behavior
under the influence. Drug test for jobs, lose your
car and go to jail if driving under the influence,
don't use around kids, no excuse for criminal behavior,
yada, yada, yada.
Back when drugs were legal, social pressure was far more
effective than prohibition.

Yes, but refusing to employ someone just because they drink
tea is absurd. Totalitarian, almost.
Oh, but Fox News says tea is OK ? OK, if Fox News says it is,
it must be.
Cannabis , OTOH, is deadly. No proof required. Ban it, make
users socially unacceptable. Jail them. And drink tea.
[]'s

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

2017-01-08 04:27:47 UTC

Post by Shadow

Retired and off duty cops with concealed guns are stopping
crime all the time. More guns, less crime.

I am a doctor.

Uh oh. I talk smack about your profession a lot. I have
T2 and a lot of people in my life have been killed by
the leading killer (death by medical). I can be really
critical at times.

I am drug free and totally under control for
over three years, no thanks to the GP I went to. What a
load of crap I was fed. Fortunately the ER allopath that
diagnosed me was the only one that gave me accurate and
honest information, so I new something was wrong with my
GP allopath. I liked the guy too.

When I broke my wrist, the ER gave me some weird designer opiate
for the pain. I never take an allopathic drug without first researching
it. It was a one time use addiction opiate. I
just suffered with the pain. I eventually got use to it.
Kind of like hitting your thumb with a hammer. All I
needed was a broken wrist AND an opiate problem! The
guy did a great job setting my wrist. No pins required.
But, he really blew it with the designer opiates.

Post by Shadow
You are preaching to the pope.. (assuming the
pope believes all that rubbish in the bible - I doubt it)

Yes, but refusing to employ someone just because they drink
tea is absurd. Totalitarian, almost
Oh, but Fox News says tea is OK ? OK, if Fox News says it is,
it must be.
Cannabis , OTOH, is deadly. No proof required.

There is proof, if you can get by the hype. I don't
think prohibition helps the matter. What do they say,
85% of studies are pay for results.

Post by Shadow
Ban it, make
users socially unacceptable. Jail them. And drink tea.
[]'s

We are definitely going to see what happens with pot.
IMO, using it is stupid, but so is using tobacco and alcohol.
Alcohol has turned our roads into killing fields.
There is no moral difference between legal and illegal drugs,
just a legal difference.

Hemp, on the other hand, you can't get high off it, gets
mixed in with pot all the time. Hemp is a great cash crop, if
folks would stop confusing it with pot. Hemp pollen ruins pot. Chuckle.

Shadow

2017-01-08 16:35:19 UTC

Post by Shadow

Retired and off duty cops with concealed guns are stopping
crime all the time. More guns, less crime.

I am a doctor.

Uh oh. I talk smack about your profession a lot. I have
T2 and a lot of people in my life have been killed by
the leading killer (death by medical). I can be really
critical at times.
I am drug free and totally under control for
over three years, no thanks to the GP I went to. What a
load of crap I was fed. Fortunately the ER allopath that
diagnosed me was the only one that gave me accurate and
honest information, so I new something was wrong with my
GP allopath. I liked the guy too.
When I broke my wrist, the ER gave me some weird designer opiate
for the pain. I never take an allopathic drug without first researching
it. It was a one time use addiction opiate. I
just suffered with the pain.

Good. Taking opiates for a temporary condition is nuts. I lost
two colleagues because of that. When you can prescribe for yourself,
the danger is multiplied. One died from a small kidney stone, and one
from a "bad back". Both were under 40.

Post by T
I eventually got use to it.
Kind of like hitting your thumb with a hammer. All I
needed was a broken wrist AND an opiate problem! The
guy did a great job setting my wrist. No pins required.
But, he really blew it with the designer opiates.

Post by Shadow
You are preaching to the pope.. (assuming the
pope believes all that rubbish in the bible - I doubt it)

There is proof, if you can get by the hype.

It's all hype. Pot can give you cancer, if you smoke over 20 a
day, just like cigarettes. But it won't mess with your heart, and it's
non addictive, unlike nicotine.

Post by T
I don't
think prohibition helps the matter. What do they say,
85% of studies are pay for results.

Post by Shadow
Ban it, make
users socially unacceptable. Jail them. And drink tea.
[]'s

Hemp IS pot. The only difference is how much THC each strain
has, but it's basically the same plant. (there are 3 species, but all
of them are "hemp", and "pot").
You might find it interesting to look up the history of hemp.
I think even Levis were made of it, until the booze industry stepped
in and prohibited the culture.
[]'s

Post by T
Hemp, on the other hand, you can't get high off it, gets
mixed in with pot all the time. Hemp is a great cash crop, if
folks would stop confusing it with pot. Hemp pollen ruins pot. Chuckle.

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

2017-01-09 02:34:06 UTC

Post by Shadow
Good. Taking opiates for a temporary condition is nuts. I lost
two colleagues because of that. When you can prescribe for yourself,
the danger is multiplied. One died from a small kidney stone, and one
from a "bad back". Both were under 40.

That truly sucks. I am sorry.

(PeteCresswell)

2017-01-08 15:39:02 UTC

Post by T
As far as pot goes. It is stupid to use. But, probably
less harmful to society than alcohol. We will see.

My two problems with pot:

- It makes people even more stupid and less capable of
critical thought. We can all point to smart people who
smoke the stuff, but I would contend that they were even
smarter before they started smoking.... and the *last*
thing this country needs is more people lacking in
critical-thinking skills.

I do not know what the science is on this, but my personal
experience is clear.

- There does not seem to be any field-practical test to see
if somebody is under the influence.

Maybe performance-oriented tests will suffice... maybe not.
I will be interested to see what happens to raw motor
vehicle accident rates over the years in states that
legalize.

Having said all that, I think it's sick to lock up some guy just for
possessing the stuff - especially in the context of Obama being
something of a weed user in his youth, Dubya having had a coke
habit, Clinton "not inhaling", and Jeff Bush having sold dope in his
college days.... and none of them having been even close to jail for it.

OTOH I am not looking forward to the day when Liggett & Meyers spends
hundreds of millions of dollars on advertising campaigns to convince
young people that being stoner is cool.

I wonder if it would be possible to keep it in some nether world where
it's not quite legal (keeping the big industry people out of it) yet
"legal" enough that nobody goes to jail for using it.

Probably not, but that would seem to be a good compromise.

I have to wonder how Portugal (which, AFIK, has basically legalized the
use of *all* drugs for some years now) addresses that aspect of drug use
in general.

--
Pete Cresswell

trader_4

2017-01-08 17:35:45 UTC

Post by T
As far as pot goes. It is stupid to use. But, probably
less harmful to society than alcohol. We will see.

- It makes people even more stupid and less capable of
critical thought. We can all point to smart people who
smoke the stuff, but I would contend that they were even
smarter before they started smoking.... and the *last*
thing this country needs is more people lacking in
critical-thinking skills.
I do not know what the science is on this, but my personal
experience is clear.
- There does not seem to be any field-practical test to see
if somebody is under the influence.
Maybe performance-oriented tests will suffice... maybe not.
I will be interested to see what happens to raw motor
vehicle accident rates over the years in states that
legalize.
Having said all that, I think it's sick to lock up some guy just for
possessing the stuff - especially in the context of Obama being
something of a weed user in his youth, Dubya having had a coke
habit, Clinton "not inhaling", and Jeff Bush having sold dope in his
college days.... and none of them having been even close to jail for it.
OTOH I am not looking forward to the day when Liggett & Meyers spends
hundreds of millions of dollars on advertising campaigns to convince
young people that being stoner is cool.
I wonder if it would be possible to keep it in some nether world where
it's not quite legal (keeping the big industry people out of it) yet
"legal" enough that nobody goes to jail for using it.
Probably not, but that would seem to be a good compromise.
I have to wonder how Portugal (which, AFIK, has basically legalized the
use of *all* drugs for some years now) addresses that aspect of drug use
in general.
--
Pete Cresswell

We have the test going on right now to see what happens in the states that
have legalized pot. I'd say after 5 years we should have some idea of
the pluses and minuses of legalization.

2017-01-09 05:28:55 UTC

Post by T
As far as pot goes. It is stupid to use. But, probably
less harmful to society than alcohol. We will see.

Hi Pete,

Your comments were insightful.

The pot heads I knew in the Service were useless. The
only thing that motivated them was the fear of their
stash being confiscated. The nearest animal model I
can think of would be a "sloth".

What statistics I want to see is pot against alcohol.
Both can mess you up pretty good. And from what
I observe, pot heads don't go get into fights and
drive.

If the ER visits for pot poisoning go up, I
want to know both the number as well as the percentage
and I want to know if alcohol related problems
went up or down as well.

As far as a field test for pot, it will come. I the mean
time, an officer has to have probably cause to pull you
over. And, reckless driving would apply. They don't
need a test for pot to bust intoxicated drivers. Just
follow the guy and put his driving on your dash cam,
show it in court, and busted ...

Oh well. Pot heads could always work for the DMV.
No one could tell them apart for the sloths that
also work there.

My guess, the slaughter house on your road will go
down a slight bit now that pot is legal

And, what is all the hue and cry about illegal drugs
anyway? The legals ones that allopaths push (designer
opiates) are killing far more folks by multiple times
than all the illegal drugs combined!

-T

devnull

2017-01-09 09:58:49 UTC

Post by T
And, what is all the hue and cry about illegal drugs
anyway? The legals ones that allopaths push (designer
opiates) are killing far more folks by multiple times
than all the illegal drugs combined!
-T

Sad but true!

(PeteCresswell)

2017-01-09 14:50:33 UTC

Post by T
They don't
need a test for pot to bust intoxicated drivers. Just
follow the guy and put his driving on your dash cam,
show it in court, and busted ...

This is totally tangential... but yesterday I heard a standup comedian
do a spiel on why drunk driving criteria based on the same blood alcohol
level for everybody are unfair.

Paraphrasing:

"I'm driving along and a cop pulls me over".

"Have you been drinking?"

"Well, I had five beers..."

"Please show me your driver's licence and registration."

"Oh... your name is Madigan!... You could have had 8. Have a nice day."

--
Pete Cresswell

trader_4

2017-01-09 15:27:34 UTC

Post by T
They don't
need a test for pot to bust intoxicated drivers. Just
follow the guy and put his driving on your dash cam,
show it in court, and busted ...

This is totally tangential... but yesterday I heard a standup comedian
do a spiel on why drunk driving criteria based on the same blood alcohol
level for everybody are unfair.

I'd also point out that it's not as simple as just following someone
and busting them for intoxicated driving. That can be an important
part and might be sufficient, but a good attorney could turn it into
a careless driving charge, instead of DWI, because it hasn't been
proven that drugs or alcohol were involved. That's why field sobriety
tests, breathalyzer, blood tests are used and important.

trader_4

2017-01-09 15:24:28 UTC

Post by T
As far as pot goes. It is stupid to use. But, probably
less harmful to society than alcohol. We will see.

Hi Pete,
Your comments were insightful.
The pot heads I knew in the Service were useless. The
only thing that motivated them was the fear of their
stash being confiscated. The nearest animal model I
can think of would be a "sloth".
What statistics I want to see is pot against alcohol.
Both can mess you up pretty good. And from what
I observe, pot heads don't go get into fights and
drive.
If the ER visits for pot poisoning go up, I
want to know both the number as well as the percentage
and I want to know if alcohol related problems
went up or down as well.
As far as a field test for pot, it will come. I the mean
time, an officer has to have probably cause to pull you
over. And, reckless driving would apply. They don't
need a test for pot to bust intoxicated drivers. Just
follow the guy and put his driving on your dash cam,
show it in court, and busted ...
Oh well. Pot heads could always work for the DMV.
No one could tell them apart for the sloths that
also work there.
My guess, the slaughter house on your road will go
down a slight bit now that pot is legal

Once again wrong and ignorant of the readily available data.

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/05/fatal-road-crashes-involving-marijuana-double-state-legalizes-drug/

Washington State:

"Fatal Road Crashes Involving Marijuana Double After State Legalizes Drug"

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/unpacking-pots-impact-in-colorado/

Colorado -

Johnson was wrong – increases in these incidents were significant. Marijuana-related traffic deaths increased by 154 percent between 2006 and 2014; Colorado emergency room hospital visits that were “likely related” to marijuana increased by 77 percent from 2011 to 2014; and drug-related suspensions/expulsions increased 40 percent from school years 2008/2009 to 2013/2014, according to a September 2015 report by the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Traffic Area, a collaboration of federal, state and local drug enforcement agencies.

2017-01-07 19:39:34 UTC

Post by Oren
On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 08:14:45 -0800 (PST), trader_4

A driving license, a privilege, is allowed over state lines. Do you
really think a state can deny a constitutional right afforded under
the U.S. Constitution? People that are legal should not have a right
denied by a state -- period.
The Reciprocity Act has been around for a long time, but not passed.
Now is the time.

and well sated too

Doug Miller

2017-01-08 03:15:45 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of
New Congress
http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-

concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/

Post by trader_4
My guess is that this is unconstitutional. Can the feds tell states
that they have to recognize another state's carry permit?

Yes, they can, and no legislation is needed. Article IV, Section 1, of the Constitution states
"Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial
Proceedings of every other State." If Illinois is required by this section to recognize my
Indiana marriage certificate and my Indiana driver's license, why not my Indiana handgun
license as well?

Post by trader_4
Sounds like a state's rights issue. And hypocrisy from those that claim to
be conservative, are against big govt, for state's rights, etc.

Just want everybody to follow the Constitution, and stop ignoring it. That's all.

trader_4

2017-01-08 17:39:02 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of
New Congress
http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-

concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/

Post by trader_4
My guess is that this is unconstitutional. Can the feds tell states
that they have to recognize another state's carry permit?

IDK, if Colorado issues a license enabling you to smoke pot, must all
the other states recognize that? States right now issue licenses to
practice law or conduct real estate transactions, yet they are not
universally recognized by all the other states. And if such right does
exist, why hasn't one of the guns rights groups brought such a case
to the courts?

Post by trader_4
Sounds like a state's rights issue. And hypocrisy from those that claim to
be conservative, are against big govt, for state's rights, etc.

Just want everybody to follow the Constitution, and stop ignoring it. That's all.

Then bring the case for the right you claim is already there.

g***@aol.com

2017-01-08 18:03:45 UTC

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 09:39:02 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Post by burfordTjustice
GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of
New Congress
http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-

concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/

Post by trader_4
My guess is that this is unconstitutional. Can the feds tell states
that they have to recognize another state's carry permit?

Those are cases of things that are specifically allowed in that
particular state.
I think the real estate license may be the best example if you were
going to have reciprocity. A real estate license says you understand
that state's real estate laws well enough to arrange contracts.
A CCW reciprocity would mean you understood the state law well enough
to know when using you gun was legal and that varies widely across
state lines. An excellent example would be the Maryland Virginia
border. A "good shoot" in Virginia will get you time in the big house
across the bridge.

trader_4

2017-01-08 22:03:49 UTC

Post by g***@aol.com
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 09:39:02 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Post by burfordTjustice
GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of
New Congress
http://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2017/01/03/gop-rep-introduces-national-

concealed-carry-reciprocity-day-one-new-congress/

Post by trader_4
My guess is that this is unconstitutional. Can the feds tell states
that they have to recognize another state's carry permit?

Those are cases of things that are specifically allowed in that
particular state.

Just like concealed carry.

Post by g***@aol.com
I think the real estate license may be the best example if you were
going to have reciprocity. A real estate license says you understand
that state's real estate laws well enough to arrange contracts.
A CCW reciprocity would mean you understood the state law well enough
to know when using you gun was legal and that varies widely across
state lines. An excellent example would be the Maryland Virginia
border. A "good shoot" in Virginia will get you time in the big house
across the bridge.

Agree. But the issue is it up to the states to decide which state's
they will have reciprocity with or is it the federal govt right to
force it down their throats. Doug thinks it's a constitutional right.
If so, it's very strange that NRA or other gun rights groups haven't
brought a case demanding all states recognize any CCW from any other
state.

Ralph Mowery

2017-01-08 23:13:17 UTC

Post by trader_4
Agree. But the issue is it up to the states to decide which state's
they will have reciprocity with or is it the federal govt right to
force it down their throats. Doug thinks it's a constitutional right.
If so, it's very strange that NRA or other gun rights groups haven't
brought a case demanding all states recognize any CCW from any other
state.

The NRA seems to be afraid to go all in on the 2nd amendment. Not sure
why unless they are afraid to loose, or if they win, there would not be
any need for them.

g***@aol.com

2017-01-09 00:16:40 UTC

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 18:13:17 -0500, Ralph Mowery

Post by Ralph Mowery
The NRA seems to be afraid to go all in on the 2nd amendment. Not sure
why unless they are afraid to loose, or if they win, there would not be
any need for them.

The NRA wants to pick battles they can win and there is still plenty
for them to do if the whole 2d amendment fight went away tomorrow.
It is not newsworthy but the NRA's main focus is civilian marksmanship
programs, competition, training and promoting shooting sports in
general. The media finds it convenient to lump the NRA (the education
organization) and the ILA (the legal organization) into one boogie
man. Most members would be very happy if more of our dues went into
hiring instructors and less into hiring lawyers.

(PeteCresswell)

2017-01-09 02:00:14 UTC

Post by Ralph Mowery
The NRA seems to be afraid to go all in on the 2nd amendment.

Bunch of years ago I saw a tongue-in-cheek argument in favor of
legalizing "Personal Hand-Grenades"... Right up there with the bogus
Smith & Wesson commercial... Anybody else recall it? Links?

--
Pete Cresswell

g***@aol.com

2017-01-09 00:09:41 UTC

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 14:03:49 -0800 (PST), trader_4

If Trump/Pence get two SCOTUS seats, who knows what will happen.
No matter what, I do think the education requirement is a reasonable
burden. I also understand there will be gun free zones and other
limitations. (hence the education part)
A good start would be some kind of federal law about transporting
unloaded firearms through blue states. If I am going to New Hampshire
where guns are legal, I am still subject to arrest in Maryland, New
York and New Jersey, just for having them, unloaded, cased and stored
in my luggage.

trader_4

2017-01-09 15:33:41 UTC

Post by g***@aol.com
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 14:03:49 -0800 (PST), trader_4

If Trump/Pence get two SCOTUS seats, who knows what will happen.

agree, there is no way to know. But Trump is promising conservatives
and there clearly is a conservative issue regarding state's rights,
limiting the power of the fed govt, in favor of state's having the
right to decide what their own state laws will be on concealed carry.

Post by g***@aol.com
No matter what, I do think the education requirement is a reasonable
burden. I also understand there will be gun free zones and other
limitations. (hence the education part)
A good start would be some kind of federal law about transporting
unloaded firearms through blue states. If I am going to New Hampshire
where guns are legal, I am still subject to arrest in Maryland, New
York and New Jersey, just for having them, unloaded, cased and stored
in my luggage.

We'll see what happens. I agree, I feel sorry for some of the people
who get caught up in this. For example, there have been some poor
bastards that checked guns with the airline in TX, on their way to
Maine to go hunting. So, they are routed through JFK, their connecting
flight is cancelled because of weather and they are stuck there over
night. So, they retrieve their luggage, go off to a local hotel.
Next morning, they come back to the airline counter, tell them that
they want to check in their luggage which includes the guns, the
airline calls the cops and they are arrested. And NYC has a mandatory
sentence for illegal possession, which they are charged with.

g***@aol.com

2017-01-09 16:49:59 UTC

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 07:33:41 -0800 (PST), trader_4

Post by trader_4
We'll see what happens. I agree, I feel sorry for some of the people
who get caught up in this. For example, there have been some poor
bastards that checked guns with the airline in TX, on their way to
Maine to go hunting. So, they are routed through JFK, their connecting
flight is cancelled because of weather and they are stuck there over
night. So, they retrieve their luggage, go off to a local hotel.
Next morning, they come back to the airline counter, tell them that
they want to check in their luggage which includes the guns, the
airline calls the cops and they are arrested. And NYC has a mandatory
sentence for illegal possession, which they are charged with.

I was curious about that and it sounds like more was involved because
I have never been able to get my luggage on a delayed flight. The
airline gives you a little kit with a toothbrush, cheap T shirt, a
comb and sends you off to the hotel. (in first class). I guess coach
passengers just fight for a bench in the airport.

notbob

2017-01-09 17:27:10 UTC

I guess coach passengers just fight for a bench in the airport.

Pretty much. I once flew military standby. I still hadda pay, but
marginally less.

When very heavy rains cancelled our flight one state from the ticketed
destination, all the other passangers were loaded on a bus and driven
to the final destination, free of charge. They told me I was SOL and
I hadda buy my own ticket (at extra expense) on a different bus to get
to the same destination.

Airlines are like oil companies. Dirt bags, one and all. ;)

nb

trader_4

2017-01-09 17:34:47 UTC

Post by g***@aol.com
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 07:33:41 -0800 (PST), trader_4

I had my luggage made available to me at London Heathrow. I was on
my way to Milan, but the connecting flight got cancelled. So, I
decided to stay in London for the night and asked them to give me
my luggage, which they did. IDK what the policy is, could vary
by airline and country. And in that case, there was a much later
flight to Milan, it's just I figured I'd take advantage of visiting
London for 24 hours. I flew out the next morning, and when I
was in the air was when the big London subway attack happened.

(PeteCresswell)

2017-01-06 21:13:04 UTC

Do any states issue "Open Carry" permits?

Got to wonder how that would play out in the same context.

--
Pete Cresswell

Oren

2017-01-06 21:24:39 UTC

Do any states issue "Open Carry" permits?

NV, AZ, and TX are open carry. No permits needed. Concealed carry does
require a permit. Check your state laws.

Post by (PeteCresswell)
Got to wonder how that would play out in the same context.

Some states require you to inform an officer you have a gun when
stopped, but not all do. Some state don't require the officer to ask
if you have a weapon.

RonNNN

2017-01-06 21:28:49 UTC

In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@127.0.0.1
says...

Post by (PeteCresswell)
Do any states issue "Open Carry" permits?

NV, AZ, and TX are open carry. No permits needed. Concealed carry does
require a permit. Check your state laws.

You are wrong, at least about Texas. It's now called a LTC (License to
Carry).

--
RonNNN

Oren

2017-01-06 22:02:46 UTC

Post by RonNNN
says...

Post by (PeteCresswell)
Do any states issue "Open Carry" permits?

NV, AZ, and TX are open carry. No permits needed. Concealed carry does
require a permit. Check your state laws.

You are wrong, at least about Texas. It's now called a LTC (License to
Carry).

I'll refresh myself.

In NV we don't need no stinking permit.

RonNNN

2017-01-06 22:08:18 UTC

In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@127.0.0.1
says...

Post by RonNNN
says...

Post by (PeteCresswell)
Do any states issue "Open Carry" permits?

NV, AZ, and TX are open carry. No permits needed. Concealed carry does
require a permit. Check your state laws.

You are wrong, at least about Texas. It's now called a LTC (License to
Carry).

I'll refresh myself.
In NV we don't need no stinking permit.

Just to clarify, we can carry "long guns" without a permit, but handguns
require a permit, with a few exceptions.

--
RonNNN

rbowman

2017-01-07 03:36:41 UTC

Post by RonNNN
Just to clarify, we can carry "long guns" without a permit, but handguns
require a permit, with a few exceptions.

Texas has always confused me. Despite the hype it doesn't have much of a
cowboy mentality. We gave it our best shot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Firearms_Freedom_Act

As long as one man could carry it and the bore was less than 1.25 inches
you were good to go. The bore size limitation only applied to smokeless.
Notably a Democratic governor signed the law. Montana Democrats are a
little different...

Oren

2017-01-07 04:28:53 UTC

Post by RonNNN
Just to clarify, we can carry "long guns" without a permit, but handguns
require a permit, with a few exceptions.

NV required a "blue card" for each handgun registered. It was only two
counties. Long guns didn't/don't require a permit or registration. The
blue card has now been abolished. No gun is "registered" with the
local sheriff. Old records have to be destroyed. Open carry of any
weapon is legal. You do have to have a CCW to conceal a handgun. NV
is a preemptive state now. Only the state can make a gun law. Older
city laws were grand fathered in at preemption, BUT some cities refuse
to enforce their local law because an arrest would mean a challenge in
court and the law would violate state law. And be overturned.

If you visit NV, bring your handgun, you don't have to get a temporary
permit from the sheriff now. Fly to Vegas and carry. Concealed if NV
has reciprocity with your state.

--
I like Guns and Titties

Shadow

2017-01-07 18:44:23 UTC

Post by Oren
I like Guns and Titties

I know a guy that could help you. Not allergic to anesthetics
or silicone implants, are you ?
Good. In 3 weeks you'll be wearing a bra.
[]'s

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

rbowman

2017-01-07 03:26:49 UTC

Do any states issue "Open Carry" permits?

NV, AZ, and TX are open carry. No permits needed. Concealed carry does
require a permit. Check your state laws.

MT is open carry with no permit. Concealed carry without a permit is
legal outside of incorporated areas with the exception of lumber camps.
There have been a few attempts to do away with the permit for concealed
but they've never made it through.

That leads to some ambiguity. if I am going hiking and have a shoulder
holster on and am wearing a jacket when am I in an incorporated area?
Some of the small towns are incorporated, some aren't.

There are some other nuances. 'Concealed' means concealed on your
person. A firearm in a backpack is not considered on your person. Not
being a lawyer and not wanting to get to know any, I wouldn't push the
boundary of 'is a firearm in a Bianchi fanny pack on your person or not?

madadmin

2017-01-07 16:28:12 UTC

Do any states issue "Open Carry" permits?
Got to wonder how that would play out in the same context.

To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no permit needed.
I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

(PeteCresswell)

2017-01-07 17:42:00 UTC

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no permit needed.
I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people carry
firearms in public.

But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their weapons
out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.

When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in plain
sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case going to
*do* something or is he harmless?".

Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

--
Pete Cresswell

rbowman

2017-01-07 19:30:33 UTC

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no permit needed.
I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people carry
firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their weapons
out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in plain
sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case going to
*do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I agree with you. If I see anyone openly carrying a firearm, cop or
civilian, they definitely get on my radar. I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm clear of the
trail head to avoid making the granola crowd nervous. Even in that
setting if I meet someone who is armed I note both the firearm and which
is their strong hand.

I even do that in the movies. When I watch the Donnie Wahlberg character
in 'Blue Bloods' my brain says 'left handed'.

burfordTjustice

2017-01-08 11:31:58 UTC

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 12:30:33 -0700

Post by rbowman
I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm clear of
the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd nervous.

That is pathetic and has ZERO educational value.

rbowman

2017-01-08 18:22:55 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 12:30:33 -0700

Post by rbowman
I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm clear of
the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd nervous.

That is pathetic and has ZERO educational value.

So educate me, troll.

burfordTjustice

2017-01-08 19:30:23 UTC

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 11:22:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 12:30:33 -0700

Post by rbowman
I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm clear of
the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd nervous.

That is pathetic and has ZERO educational value.

So educate me, troll.

rbowman

2017-01-08 21:13:49 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 11:22:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 12:30:33 -0700

Post by rbowman
I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm clear of
the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd nervous.

That is pathetic and has ZERO educational value.

So educate me, troll.

Yeah, I forgot your specialty is one line copy'n'paste links from
Breitbart rather than intelligent discussion.

burfordTjustice

2017-01-09 10:24:28 UTC

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 14:13:49 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 11:22:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 12:30:33 -0700

Post by rbowman
I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm clear
of the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd nervous.

That is pathetic and has ZERO educational value.

So educate me, troll.

Yeah, I forgot your specialty is one line copy'n'paste links from
Breitbart rather than intelligent discussion.

You are not savable.
Bet you enjoyed the Globes yesterday.

rbowman

2017-01-09 14:50:55 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 14:13:49 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 11:22:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 12:30:33 -0700

Post by rbowman
I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm clear
of the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd nervous.

That is pathetic and has ZERO educational value.

So educate me, troll.

Yeah, I forgot your specialty is one line copy'n'paste links from
Breitbart rather than intelligent discussion.

You are not savable.
Bet you enjoyed the Globes yesterday.

What fucking globes? I'll save myself, thank you.

burfordTjustice

2017-01-09 18:15:40 UTC

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 07:50:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 14:13:49 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 11:22:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 12:30:33 -0700

Post by rbowman
I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm
clear of the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd
nervous.

That is pathetic and has ZERO educational value.

So educate me, troll.

Yeah, I forgot your specialty is one line copy'n'paste links from
Breitbart rather than intelligent discussion.

You are not savable.
Bet you enjoyed the Globes yesterday.

What fucking globes? I'll save myself, thank you.

LOL You gonna go be obama's best boi??

rbowman

2017-01-10 02:00:52 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 07:50:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 14:13:49 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 11:22:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 12:30:33 -0700

Post by rbowman
I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm
clear of the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd
nervous.

That is pathetic and has ZERO educational value.

So educate me, troll.

Yeah, I forgot your specialty is one line copy'n'paste links from
Breitbart rather than intelligent discussion.

You are not savable.
Bet you enjoyed the Globes yesterday.

What fucking globes? I'll save myself, thank you.

LOL You gonna go be obama's best boi??

The fuck are you babbling about, asshole? I have no use for that
affirmative action waste of oxygen or any of his bros, come to think of
it.

burfordTjustice

2017-01-10 11:41:55 UTC

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 19:00:52 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 07:50:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 14:13:49 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 11:22:55 -0700

Post by burfordTjustice
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 12:30:33 -0700

Post by rbowman
I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm
clear of the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd
nervous.

That is pathetic and has ZERO educational value.

So educate me, troll.

Yeah, I forgot your specialty is one line copy'n'paste links from
Breitbart rather than intelligent discussion.

You are not savable.
Bet you enjoyed the Globes yesterday.

What fucking globes? I'll save myself, thank you.

LOL You gonna go be obama's best boi??

The fuck are you babbling about, asshole? I have no use for that
affirmative action waste of oxygen or any of his bros, come to think
of it.

LOLOL!!! OooooooooooooooooooooooooooooK

madadmin

2017-01-10 02:14:00 UTC

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no permit needed.
I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people carry
firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their weapons
out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in plain
sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case going to
*do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I agree with you. If I see anyone openly carrying a firearm, cop or
civilian, they definitely get on my radar. I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm clear of the
trail head to avoid making the granola crowd nervous. Even in that
setting if I meet someone who is armed I note both the firearm and which
is their strong hand.
I even do that in the movies. When I watch the Donnie Wahlberg character
in 'Blue Bloods' my brain says 'left handed'.

I try to maintain situational awareness at all times no matter if I see
any weapons or not. Just because you don't see one doesn't mean they're
not carrying one. I view open carry as a policy of honesty. A concealed
weapon traditionally has always been an implied intent to do harm. Plus,
if the shit hits the fan, a concealed weapon does tend to take a
fraction of a second longer to put into action and that fraction of a
second can easily mean life or death.

I wouldn't put too much stock in movies either........

rbowman

2017-01-10 04:55:48 UTC

Post by madadmin
I try to maintain situational awareness at all times no matter if I see
any weapons or not. Just because you don't see one doesn't mean they're
not carrying one. I view open carry as a policy of honesty. A concealed
weapon traditionally has always been an implied intent to do harm. Plus,
if the shit hits the fan, a concealed weapon does tend to take a
fraction of a second longer to put into action and that fraction of a
second can easily mean life or death.

Several fractions, actually. The shot timer doesn't lie.

burfordTjustice

2017-01-10 11:41:23 UTC

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:14:00 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no permit needed.
I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people
carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their
weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in
plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case
going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I agree with you. If I see anyone openly carrying a firearm, cop or
civilian, they definitely get on my radar. I often carry in the back
country but even then I leave the gun in my pack until I'm clear of
the trail head to avoid making the granola crowd nervous. Even in
that setting if I meet someone who is armed I note both the firearm
and which is their strong hand.
I even do that in the movies. When I watch the Donnie Wahlberg
character in 'Blue Bloods' my brain says 'left handed'.

I try to maintain situational awareness at all times no matter if I
see any weapons or not. Just because you don't see one doesn't mean
they're not carrying one. I view open carry as a policy of honesty. A
concealed weapon traditionally has always been an implied intent to
do harm. Plus, if the shit hits the fan, a concealed weapon does tend
to take a fraction of a second longer to put into action and that
fraction of a second can easily mean life or death.
I wouldn't put too much stock in movies either........

Movies are what makes democrats experts.
Play a farm wife in a movie and you are now
qualified to to testify about women on the farm etc.

burfordTjustice

2017-01-08 11:30:16 UTC

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 12:42:00 -0500

Post by (PeteCresswell)
I feel more at ease when people are carrying their weapons
out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
Ignorance can be bliss -

Of course in an emergency you would never ask for or expect
help from someone carrying a gun?

VinnyB

2017-01-08 13:40:12 UTC

Post by (PeteCresswell)
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in plain
sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case going to
*do* something or is he harmless?".

+1 on that from a Life Time NRA member. I highly doubt anyone who
needs to boost their self-image by open carry.

trader_4

2017-01-08 22:05:08 UTC

Post by VinnyB

+1 on that from a Life Time NRA member. I highly doubt anyone who
needs to boost their self-image by open carry.

I just watch the news and see people in action everyday and am certain
there are plenty of people who would use open carry to boost their
self-image.

Ralph Mowery

2017-01-08 23:16:37 UTC

Post by VinnyB

+1 on that from a Life Time NRA member. I highly doubt anyone who
needs to boost their self-image by open carry.

I just watch the news and see people in action everyday and am certain
there are plenty of people who would use open carry to boost their
self-image.

North Carolina and I am sure some other states have an open carry law
where you do not need any special permit or anything to open carry. I
have seldom seen anyone open carry that is not some kind of law. There
are a few , but not many that do.

Ask anyone that is in the know and they say open carry is about the
dumbist thing to do.

(PeteCresswell)

2017-01-09 02:02:24 UTC

Post by Ralph Mowery
I
have seldom seen anyone open carry that is not some kind of law. There
are a few , but not many that do.
Ask anyone that is in the know and they say open carry is about the
dumbist thing to do.

That would seem to support my suspicion that there is a
greater-than-average chance that the carrier is, perhaps, running a
quart low.

--
Pete Cresswell

rbowman

2017-01-09 05:06:49 UTC

That would seem to support my suspicion that there is a
greater-than-average chance that the carrier is, perhaps, running a
quart low.

That's been my feeling. I don't need a 1911 on my hip to visit the library.

Ralph Mowery

2017-01-09 15:08:51 UTC

In article <***@mid.individual.net>, ***@montana.com
says...

Post by (PeteCresswell)
That would seem to support my suspicion that there is a
greater-than-average chance that the carrier is, perhaps, running a
quart low.

That's been my feeling. I don't need a 1911 on my hip to visit the library.

I don't think I need anything on my hip for the places I go, but I do
have something in my pocket every where it is legal for me. Look on it
as the spare tire. I have only need 2 in the last 15 years,but would
not have wanted to be with out them.

Oren

2017-01-09 23:00:54 UTC

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 10:08:51 -0500, Ralph Mowery

Post by Ralph Mowery

Post by (PeteCresswell)
That would seem to support my suspicion that there is a
greater-than-average chance that the carrier is, perhaps, running a
quart low.

That's been my feeling. I don't need a 1911 on my hip to visit the library.

+1 I seldom carry. State law allows me open carry but in my opinion
that is a tell to the stink-eye that I'm armed. I prefer they would
find out the hard way. BANG. BANG mo-fo.

I don't conceal, but can have my weapon in plain view in my vehicle
for John Law to see it. Open site.

g***@aol.com

2017-01-10 02:24:24 UTC

Post by Oren
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 10:08:51 -0500, Ralph Mowery

Post by Ralph Mowery

Post by (PeteCresswell)
That would seem to support my suspicion that there is a
greater-than-average chance that the carrier is, perhaps, running a
quart low.

That's been my feeling. I don't need a 1911 on my hip to visit the library.

+1 I seldom carry. State law allows me open carry but in my opinion
that is a tell to the stink-eye that I'm armed. I prefer they would
find out the hard way. BANG. BANG mo-fo.
I don't conceal, but can have my weapon in plain view in my vehicle
for John Law to see it. Open site.

I have a CCW and I never carry either. I moved away from the big city
so I wouldn't have to.

rbowman

2017-01-10 05:00:15 UTC

Post by Oren
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 10:08:51 -0500, Ralph Mowery

Post by Ralph Mowery

Post by (PeteCresswell)
That would seem to support my suspicion that there is a
greater-than-average chance that the carrier is, perhaps, running a
quart low.

That's been my feeling. I don't need a 1911 on my hip to visit the library.

+1 I seldom carry. State law allows me open carry but in my opinion
that is a tell to the stink-eye that I'm armed. I prefer they would
find out the hard way. BANG. BANG mo-fo.
I don't conceal, but can have my weapon in plain view in my vehicle
for John Law to see it. Open site.

I have a CCW and I never carry either. I moved away from the big city
so I wouldn't have to.

Precisely. My threats involve bears and mountain lions, not dindu
muggers or jihadis.. And to be honest my encounters with either bears or
lions have been resolved peacefully. When I was working in the Boston
area or driving a truck into some choice locations it was a different
story.

madadmin

2017-01-10 02:07:01 UTC

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no permit needed.
I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people carry
firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their weapons
out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in plain
sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case going to
*do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may present a
threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the 1800's at least.
Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in the West was considerably
less than any of the Western cities now and New York had a much HIGHER
rate back then than it does now. If I see somebody with a Glock on their
hip it just means they have different tastes than I do :)

David B.

2017-01-10 09:26:07 UTC

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military training.

That sounds as if you, like me, are one of life's good guys! :-)

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

madadmin

2017-01-11 01:26:18 UTC

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military training.

That sounds as if you, like me, are one of life's good guys! :-)

Actually my reputation is more along the lines of "He's a big asshole
but he helps people"

Somewhere in the archives of alt.2600 you'll see comments along those
lines about me......

burfordTjustice

2017-01-10 11:39:38 UTC

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no permit
needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people carry
firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their
weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in
plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case
going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may present
a threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the 1800's at
least. Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in the West was
considerably less than any of the Western cities now and New York had
a much HIGHER rate back then than it does now. If I see somebody with
a Glock on their hip it just means they have different tastes than I
do :)

Ditto!

David B.

2017-01-10 17:04:02 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no permit
needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people carry
firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their
weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in
plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case
going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may present
a threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the 1800's at
least. Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in the West was
considerably less than any of the Western cities now and New York had
a much HIGHER rate back then than it does now. If I see somebody with
a Glock on their hip it just means they have different tastes than I
do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-10 19:02:11 UTC

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:04:02 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no
permit needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people
carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their
weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in
plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case
going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may
present a threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the
1800's at least. Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in the
West was considerably less than any of the Western cities now and
New York had a much HIGHER rate back then than it does now. If I
see somebody with a Glock on their hip it just means they have
different tastes than I do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

Why do you claim to have a Browning Pistol then?

David B.

2017-01-10 19:17:59 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:04:02 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no
permit needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people
carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their
weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in
plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut case
going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may
present a threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the
1800's at least. Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in the
West was considerably less than any of the Western cities now and
New York had a much HIGHER rate back then than it does now. If I
see somebody with a Glock on their hip it just means they have
different tastes than I do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

Why do you claim to have a Browning Pistol then?

I claimed that UK aircrew were (are? I'm not sure about what happens
nowadays) issued with a 9mm Browning pistol and taught how to use same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power

*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."

I very much doubt that that is true.

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-10 20:11:51 UTC

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:17:59 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:04:02 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no
permit needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people
carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their
weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in
plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut
case going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may
present a threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the
1800's at least. Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in
the West was considerably less than any of the Western cities
now and New York had a much HIGHER rate back then than it does
now. If I see somebody with a Glock on their hip it just means
they have different tastes than I do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

Why do you claim to have a Browning Pistol then?

I claimed that UK aircrew were (are? I'm not sure about what happens
nowadays) issued with a 9mm Browning pistol and taught how to use same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
I very much doubt that that is true.

You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.
You failed out of flight school as "a danger to himself
and others"

So why do you have a browning Pistol

David B.

2017-01-10 20:22:38 UTC

On 10/01/2017 20:11, burfordTjustice is again wriggling on the hook!

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:17:59 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:04:02 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no
permit needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people
carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their
weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in
plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut
case going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may
present a threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the
1800's at least. Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in
the West was considerably less than any of the Western cities
now and New York had a much HIGHER rate back then than it does
now. If I see somebody with a Glock on their hip it just means
they have different tastes than I do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

Why do you claim to have a Browning Pistol then?

I claimed that UK aircrew were (are? I'm not sure about what happens
nowadays) issued with a 9mm Browning pistol and taught how to use same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
I very much doubt that that is true.

You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.

I am retired, as well you know. :-)

*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."

Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-10 20:46:15 UTC

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:22:38 +0000

Post by David B.
On 10/01/2017 20:11, burfordTjustice is again wriggling on the hook!

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:17:59 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:04:02 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no
permit needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people
carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying
their weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their
presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around
in plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this
nut case going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may
present a threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the
1800's at least. Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in
the West was considerably less than any of the Western cities
now and New York had a much HIGHER rate back then than it does
now. If I see somebody with a Glock on their hip it just means
they have different tastes than I do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

Why do you claim to have a Browning Pistol then?

I claimed that UK aircrew were (are? I'm not sure about what
happens nowadays) issued with a 9mm Browning pistol and taught how
to use same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
I very much doubt that that is true.

You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.

I am retired, as well you know. :-)
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.
You failed out of flight school as "a danger to himself
and others"

So why do you have a browning Pistol

David B.

2017-01-10 22:09:03 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:22:38 +0000

[....]

Post by David B.
I am retired, as well you know. :-)
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

So why do you have a browning Pistol

The reason for anyone to have a gun is to kill.

I'm surprised you didn't know that with you, supposedly, having "had
police and military training".

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-11 10:16:22 UTC

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 22:09:03 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:22:38 +0000

[....]

Post by David B.
I am retired, as well you know. :-)
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

So why do you have a browning Pistol

The reason for anyone to have a gun is to kill.
I'm surprised you didn't know that with you, supposedly, having "had
police and military training".

Who said that? Exactly where?

David B.

2017-01-11 12:58:05 UTC

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 22:09:03 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:22:38 +0000

[....]

Post by David B.
I am retired, as well you know. :-)
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

So why do you have a browning Pistol

The reason for anyone to have a gun is to kill.
I'm surprised you didn't know that with you, supposedly, having "had
police and military training".

Who said that? Exactly where?

*YOU* did! ---> Message-ID: <***@tues.uk>

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-11 13:26:14 UTC

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:58:05 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 22:09:03 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 20:22:38 +0000

[....]

Post by David B.
I am retired, as well you know. :-)
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

So why do you have a browning Pistol

The reason for anyone to have a gun is to kill.
I'm surprised you didn't know that with you, supposedly, having
"had police and military training".

Who said that? Exactly where?

all we see is a bunch of numbers...

David B.

2017-01-11 14:22:35 UTC

On 11/01/2017 13:26, burfordTjustice receives yet MORE education!

Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 12:58:05 +0000

Post by David B.
The reason for anyone to have a gun is to kill.
I'm surprised you didn't know that with you, supposedly, having
"had police and military training".

Who said that? Exactly where?

all we see is a bunch of numbers...

*That's all you need*!

Viz:-

Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: burfordTjustice <***@tues.uk>
Newsgroups:
24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.home.repair
Subject: Re: GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day
One of New Congress
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:39:38 -0500
Organization: Devon-Local
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <***@tues.uk>
References: <***@tues.uk>
<***@4ax.com>
<o4r4rv$4h2$***@dont-email.me>
<***@4ax.com>
<o51fh8$icr$***@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Info: mx02.eternal-september.org;
posting-host="396f347a664f51b9784eea881d0eb4bd";
logging-data="6860"; mail-complaints-to="***@eternal-september.org";
posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19A/7A4qnabYsjBj8uJbVrNuSAOkt74Nfw="
X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.16.6; i586-pc-mingw32msvc)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:VdtuWLVwxb7uV3z0z53uGuQwDnw=

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

madadmin <***@test.me> wrote:

[....]

Post by burfordTjustice
I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training.

[....]

*Ditto*! <----- That's what YOU posted, Burford

HTH

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-11 14:30:00 UTC

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:22:35 +0000

Post by David B.
[....]

Post by madadmin
I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training.

Said it...you drunk fucktard.

Now then:
You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.
You failed out of flight school as "a danger to himself
and others"

So why do you have a browning Pistol

David B.

2017-01-11 17:24:24 UTC

On 11/01/2017 14:30, burfordTjustice explains NOT!

Post by burfordTjustice
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:22:35 +0000

Post by David B.
[....]

Post by madadmin
I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training.

Said it... and I agreed!

"Ditto"

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-11 19:24:59 UTC

From: burfordTjustice <***@tues.uk>
Subject: Re: GOP Rep Introduces National Concealed Carry Reciprocity On Day One of New Congress
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2017 09:30:00 -0500
Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk,alt.politics.scorched-earth,alt.home.repair,uk.legal
Organization: Devon-Local
X-Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.10.1 (GTK+ 2.16.6; i586-pc-mingw32msvc)

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:22:35 +0000

Post by David B.
[....]

Post by madadmin
I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training.

Vidcapper

2017-01-11 08:11:50 UTC

Post by David B.
On 10/01/2017 20:11, burfordTjustice is again wriggling on the hook!

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:17:59 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:04:02 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no
permit needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people
carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their
weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in
plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut
case going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may
present a threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the
1800's at least. Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in
the West was considerably less than any of the Western cities
now and New York had a much HIGHER rate back then than it does
now. If I see somebody with a Glock on their hip it just means
they have different tastes than I do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

Why do you claim to have a Browning Pistol then?

I claimed that UK aircrew were (are? I'm not sure about what happens
nowadays) issued with a 9mm Browning pistol and taught how to use same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
I very much doubt that that is true.

You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.

I am retired, as well you know. :-)
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

because Burford is a pathological liar?

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

burfordTjustice

2017-01-11 10:17:15 UTC

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 08:11:50 +0000

Post by Vidcapper

Post by David B.
On 10/01/2017 20:11, burfordTjustice is again wriggling on the hook!

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:17:59 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:04:02 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no
permit needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal
people carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying
their weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their
presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around
in plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this
nut case going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from
anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and
military training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether
they may present a threat or not. The Northeast has had
issues since the 1800's at least. Back in the Wild West days
the murder rate in the West was considerably less than any of
the Western cities now and New York had a much HIGHER rate
back then than it does now. If I see somebody with a Glock on
their hip it just means they have different tastes than I
do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

Why do you claim to have a Browning Pistol then?

I claimed that UK aircrew were (are? I'm not sure about what
happens nowadays) issued with a 9mm Browning pistol and taught
how to use same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
I very much doubt that that is true.

You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.

I am retired, as well you know. :-)
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

because Burford is a pathological liar?

Aw..the Asian/muslim Apologist puts his head up.

David B.

2017-01-11 13:00:22 UTC

Post by Vidcapper

Post by David B.
On 10/01/2017 20:11, burfordTjustice is again wriggling on the hook!

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:17:59 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:04:02 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no
permit needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal people
carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West of
Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are carrying their
weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking around in
plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is "Is this nut
case going to *do* something or is he harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and military
training. I prefer to see who's carrying and whether they may
present a threat or not. The Northeast has had issues since the
1800's at least. Back in the Wild West days the murder rate in
the West was considerably less than any of the Western cities
now and New York had a much HIGHER rate back then than it does
now. If I see somebody with a Glock on their hip it just means
they have different tastes than I do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

Why do you claim to have a Browning Pistol then?

I claimed that UK aircrew were (are? I'm not sure about what happens
nowadays) issued with a 9mm Browning pistol and taught how to use same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
I very much doubt that that is true.

You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.

I am retired, as well you know. :-)
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

because Burford is a pathological liar?

You might well be right about that!

Here's the relevant post ... Message-ID: <***@tues.uk>

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-11 13:25:36 UTC

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 13:00:22 +0000

Post by Vidcapper

Post by David B.
On 10/01/2017 20:11, burfordTjustice is again wriggling on the hook!

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 19:17:59 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017 17:04:02 +0000

Post by burfordTjustice
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 21:07:01 -0500

Post by madadmin
To my knowledge any place open carry is allowed there is no
permit needed. I actually prefer open carry to concealed.

Maybe it's different in the Western states where normal
people carry firearms in public.
But here in Southeastern Pennsylvania (about 23 miles West
of Philadelphia) I feel more at ease when people are
carrying their weapons out of sight - i.e. I am not aware
of their presence.
When I see somebody with a Glock on their hip walking
around in plain sight and no badge, all I can think of is
"Is this nut case going to *do* something or is he
harmless?".
Ignorance can be bliss - or, at least, freedom from
anxiety...

I been around guns all my life and have had police and
military training. I prefer to see who's carrying and
whether they may present a threat or not. The Northeast has
had issues since the 1800's at least. Back in the Wild West
days the murder rate in the West was considerably less than
any of the Western cities now and New York had a much HIGHER
rate back then than it does now. If I see somebody with a
Glock on their hip it just means they have different tastes
than I do :)

Ditto!

More utter rubbish! :-P

Why do you claim to have a Browning Pistol then?

I claimed that UK aircrew were (are? I'm not sure about what
happens nowadays) issued with a 9mm Browning pistol and taught
how to use same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
I very much doubt that that is true.

You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.

I am retired, as well you know. :-)
*YOU* claimed "I have had police and military training."
Why did you say that when it is blatantly untrue?

because Burford is a pathological liar?

You might well be right about that!
<201701100639

You are not a current aircrew member nor were you ever.
You failed out of flight school as "a danger to himself
and others"

So why do you have a browning Pistol

David B.

2017-01-11 14:25:56 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
because Burford is a pathological liar?

You might well be right about that!
<201701100639

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C20170110063938.00006de0%40tues.uk%3E

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-11 14:28:40 UTC

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 14:25:56 +0000

Post by Vidcapper
because Burford is a pathological liar?

You might well be right about that!
<201701100639

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=

You drunk fuck...madadmin said that...

madadmin

2017-01-11 14:36:48 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
because Burford is a pathological liar?

You might well be right about that!
<201701100639

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C20170110063938.00006de0%40tues.uk%3E

All burford said was "Ditto"

You infer far too much from far to little......

FromTheRafters

2017-01-11 14:55:18 UTC

Post by Vidcapper
because Burford is a pathological liar?

You might well be right about that!
<201701100639

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C20170110063938.00006de0%40tues.uk%3E

All burford said was "Ditto"
You infer far too much from far to little......

"Ditto" can indeed mean "Same here" so that's how BD preferred to take
it. Burford should have just agreed with what was written instead of
replying with a word he didn't understand the meaning of.

David B.

2017-01-11 17:41:25 UTC

Post by FromTheRafters

Post by Vidcapper
because Burford is a pathological liar?

You might well be right about that!
<201701100639

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C20170110063938.00006de0%40tues.uk%3E

All burford said was "Ditto"
You infer far too much from far to little......

"Ditto" can indeed mean "Same here" so that's how BD preferred to take
it. Burford should have just agreed with what was written instead of
replying with a word he didn't understand the meaning of.

I really appreciate your comment, FTR.

Thanks. :-)

Not for one moment did I believe that the 'piece of work' (as Peter
Foldes used to say!) behind the 'Burford' persona has ever had any
military/service training.

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it."

burfordTjustice

2017-01-11 19:24:12 UTC

On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 17:41:25 +0000

Post by FromTheRafters

Post by Vidcapper
because Burford is a pathological liar?

You might well be right about that!
<201701100639

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?STYPE=msgid&A=0&MSGI=%3C20170110063938.00006de0%40tues.uk%3E

All burford said was "Ditto"
You infer far too much from far to little......

"Ditto" can indeed mean "Same here" so that's how BD preferred to
take it. Burford should have just agreed with what was written
instead of replying with a word he didn't understand the meaning of.

I really appreciate your comment, FTR.
Thanks. :-)
Not for one moment did I believe that the 'piece of work' (as Peter
Foldes used to say!) behind the 'Burford' persona has ever had any
military/service training.

So nice to see you and your boi making nicey nicey again.

FromTheRafters

2017-01-11 20:14:16 UTC

Post by FromTheRafters