Cts and Dallas

[Mark]

Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.

Mark

[mainframetech]

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

Chris

[Mark]

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

Post by mainframetech
Chris

[bigdog]

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

I can only imagine how devastated the men on the protection detail must
have been at the time. They had one mission and they had failed to carry
it out. Right from the start they must have been questioning themselves as
to whether they could have prevented it. We know Clint Hill was haunted
for years by the belief that if he had reacted more quickly he might have
been able to save JFK. It wasn't until many years later he was able to
make peace with himself and realize there was probably nothing he could
have done to prevent it. In their state of mind, it is quite
understandable that they wouldn't have much regard for the concerns of
local medical examiner. We do know that an agreement was finally reached
with the local authorities for them to take the body under the condition
that Admiral Burkey would assume the responsibility for staying with the
body until a legal autopsy was performed.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

I can only imagine how devastated the men on the protection detail must
have been at the time. They had one mission and they had failed to carry
it out. Right from the start they must have been questioning themselves as
to whether they could have prevented it. We know Clint Hill was haunted
for years by the belief that if he had reacted more quickly he might have
been able to save JFK. It wasn't until many years later he was able to
make peace with himself and realize there was probably nothing he could
have done to prevent it. In their state of mind, it is quite
understandable that they wouldn't have much regard for the concerns of
local medical examiner. We do know that an agreement was finally reached
with the local authorities for them to take the body under the condition
that Admiral Burkey would assume the responsibility for staying with the
body until a legal autopsy was performed.

These were hard boiled federal agents who had some time from the
shooting to when the body was in a casket ready to leave Parkland. They
certainly were able to compose themselves from the time of the shooting
through to the Body leaving Parkland. There was still a POTUS to protect,
and Jackie.

Chris

[Mark]

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

I can only imagine how devastated the men on the protection detail must
have been at the time. They had one mission and they had failed to carry
it out. Right from the start they must have been questioning themselves as
to whether they could have prevented it. We know Clint Hill was haunted
for years by the belief that if he had reacted more quickly he might have
been able to save JFK. It wasn't until many years later he was able to
make peace with himself and realize there was probably nothing he could
have done to prevent it. In their state of mind, it is quite
understandable that they wouldn't have much regard for the concerns of
local medical examiner. We do know that an agreement was finally reached
with the local authorities for them to take the body under the condition
that Admiral Burkey would assume the responsibility for staying with the
body until a legal autopsy was performed.

Yes, you're right, and thanks for the reminder, the situation was diffused
when Burkley told, I think it was Rose, that he would stay with the body
until the autopsy.

I've read Hill's books. I dare anyone to read them and watch the
documentary and then believe the agents conspired to murder JFK. A group
of old men haunted because of Oswald's bullets. Mark

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

I can only imagine how devastated the men on the protection detail must
have been at the time. They had one mission and they had failed to carry
it out. Right from the start they must have been questioning themselves as
to whether they could have prevented it. We know Clint Hill was haunted
for years by the belief that if he had reacted more quickly he might have
been able to save JFK. It wasn't until many years later he was able to
make peace with himself and realize there was probably nothing he could
have done to prevent it. In their state of mind, it is quite
understandable that they wouldn't have much regard for the concerns of
local medical examiner. We do know that an agreement was finally reached
with the local authorities for them to take the body under the condition
that Admiral Burkey would assume the responsibility for staying with the
body until a legal autopsy was performed.

Yes, you're right, and thanks for the reminder, the situation was diffused
when Burkley told, I think it was Rose, that he would stay with the body
until the autopsy.
I've read Hill's books. I dare anyone to read them and watch the
documentary and then believe the agents conspired to murder JFK. A group
of old men haunted because of Oswald's bullets. Mark

How come you never attack the kook who claims that the SS shot JFK in
the head?

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Yes, sorta, but there was a little more to it than that. LBJ thought that
at any second the missile would be falling and he as President had to get
on that plane and into the air to control the battle. He would not leave
without Jackie and Jackier would not leave without her husband. So they
had to steal the body to save the world.

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

I told him that before you did.

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech
Chris

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Yes, sorta, but there was a little more to it than that. LBJ thought that
at any second the missile would be falling and he as President had to get
on that plane and into the air to control the battle. He would not leave
without Jackie and Jackier would not leave without her husband. So they
had to steal the body to save the world.

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

I told him that before you did.

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech
Chris

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Kennedy people, e.g., O'Donnell
et al, took JFK's body out of Dallas because they were worried about
saving the world from some sort of Soviet attack. None at all.

In any case, how is removing the body "saving the world"? If the
assassination was prelude to a Soviet attack it didn't matter where JFK's
body was. The missiles were coming whether he was in Dallas or on Air
Force One.

[claviger]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
There is no evidence whatsoever that the Kennedy people, e.g.,
O'Donnell et al, took JFK's body out of Dallas because they were
worried about saving the world from some sort of Soviet attack.
None at all.
In any case, how is removing the body "saving the world"? If the
assassination was prelude to a Soviet attack it didn't matter where
JFK's body was. The missiles were coming whether he was in Dallas
or on Air Force One.

Brilliant observation.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
There is no evidence whatsoever that the Kennedy people, e.g.,
O'Donnell et al, took JFK's body out of Dallas because they were
worried about saving the world from some sort of Soviet attack.
None at all.
In any case, how is removing the body "saving the world"? If the
assassination was prelude to a Soviet attack it didn't matter where
JFK's body was. The missiles were coming whether he was in Dallas
or on Air Force One.

Brilliant observation.

Silly. It wasn't the Kennedy people. It was the SS under orders from LBJ.
Do a little reading.

[claviger]

Post by claviger

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
There is no evidence whatsoever that the Kennedy people, e.g.,
O'Donnell et al, took JFK's body out of Dallas because they were
worried about saving the world from some sort of Soviet attack.
None at all.
In any case, how is removing the body "saving the world"? If the
assassination was prelude to a Soviet attack it didn't matter where
JFK's body was. The missiles were coming whether he was in Dallas
or on Air Force One.

Brilliant observation.

Given the shocking situation I agree the Presidential escort and staff
should return to DC immediately for more than one reason. They didn't know
if LHO was part of a group effort to decapitate the US Government and the
mental condition of First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy. She would not leave
without her husband. What would have made sense under the extreme
circumstance is for Dallas County Medical Examiner Earl Rose to come back
on Air Force One to DC and participate in the autopsy at Walter Reed Army
Medical Center for the legal examination of President Kennedy by a Coroner
of Dallas County. Responsibility for that important decision should not
have been placed upon the First Lady. Legally it was not her decision to
make.

[mainframetech]

Post by claviger

Post by claviger

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
There is no evidence whatsoever that the Kennedy people, e.g.,
O'Donnell et al, took JFK's body out of Dallas because they were
worried about saving the world from some sort of Soviet attack.
None at all.
In any case, how is removing the body "saving the world"? If the
assassination was prelude to a Soviet attack it didn't matter where
JFK's body was. The missiles were coming whether he was in Dallas
or on Air Force One.

Brilliant observation.

Given the shocking situation I agree the Presidential escort and staff
should return to DC immediately for more than one reason. They didn't know
if LHO was part of a group effort to decapitate the US Government and the
mental condition of First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy. She would not leave
without her husband. What would have made sense under the extreme
circumstance is for Dallas County Medical Examiner Earl Rose to come back
on Air Force One to DC and participate in the autopsy at Walter Reed Army
Medical Center for the legal examination of President Kennedy by a Coroner
of Dallas County. Responsibility for that important decision should not
have been placed upon the First Lady. Legally it was not her decision to
make.

Jackie made no decisions relating to Earl Rose, nor where the autopsy
would take place except when they asked her if she wanted Walter Reed, or
Bethesda, both military hospitals.

Chris

[mainframetech]

Post by claviger

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
There is no evidence whatsoever that the Kennedy people, e.g.,
O'Donnell et al, took JFK's body out of Dallas because they were
worried about saving the world from some sort of Soviet attack.
None at all.
In any case, how is removing the body "saving the world"? If the
assassination was prelude to a Soviet attack it didn't matter where
JFK's body was. The missiles were coming whether he was in Dallas
or on Air Force One.

Brilliant observation.

Naah. If "missiles" were coming, why bother with the president? If
he were killed, the VP would take over right away and continuity would be
had.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by mainframetech

Post by claviger

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
There is no evidence whatsoever that the Kennedy people, e.g.,
O'Donnell et al, took JFK's body out of Dallas because they were
worried about saving the world from some sort of Soviet attack.
None at all.
In any case, how is removing the body "saving the world"? If the
assassination was prelude to a Soviet attack it didn't matter where
JFK's body was. The missiles were coming whether he was in Dallas
or on Air Force One.

Brilliant observation.

Naah. If "missiles" were coming, why bother with the president? If
he were killed, the VP would take over right away and continuity would be
had.

LBJ was briefed by his military aide and told that the Russians might
try to assassinate the top leaders in the US just before launching a
first strike. So LBJ was paranoid that they could also be planning to
murder him before he could get to Air Force One and in the air where he
would be safe and could order a counter attack.
It was about control of the football.
It was not in the plane taking the Cabinet to the meeting in Hawaii as
it was supposed to be.

Post by mainframetech
Chris

[Mark]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Yes, sorta, but there was a little more to it than that. LBJ thought that
at any second the missile would be falling and he as President had to get
on that plane and into the air to control the battle. He would not leave
without Jackie and Jackier would not leave without her husband. So they
had to steal the body to save the world.

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

I told him that before you did.

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech
Chris

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Kennedy people, e.g., O'Donnell
et al, took JFK's body out of Dallas because they were worried about
saving the world from some sort of Soviet attack. None at all.
In any case, how is removing the body "saving the world"? If the
assassination was prelude to a Soviet attack it didn't matter where JFK's
body was. The missiles were coming whether he was in Dallas or on Air
Force One.

Also, Steve, NORAD was started in 1957. And our electronic listening
posts picked up no signs that the Soviet military was on any kind of
alert, let alone a high alert. I would speculate that both systems, and
others, relayed such information to the Pentagon, which forwarded it to
LBJ ASAP. Mark

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Yes, sorta, but there was a little more to it than that. LBJ thought that
at any second the missile would be falling and he as President had to get
on that plane and into the air to control the battle. He would not leave
without Jackie and Jackier would not leave without her husband. So they
had to steal the body to save the world.

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

I told him that before you did.

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech
Chris

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Kennedy people, e.g., O'Donnell
et al, took JFK's body out of Dallas because they were worried about
saving the world from some sort of Soviet attack. None at all.
In any case, how is removing the body "saving the world"? If the
assassination was prelude to a Soviet attack it didn't matter where JFK's
body was. The missiles were coming whether he was in Dallas or on Air
Force One.

Also, Steve, NORAD was started in 1957. And our electronic listening
posts picked up no signs that the Soviet military was on any kind of
alert, let alone a high alert. I would speculate that both systems, and
others, relayed such information to the Pentagon, which forwarded it to
LBJ ASAP. Mark

Cute point, but that was hours later, well after they left Dallas. And
they had no way to relay it to LBJ when he was hiding in Parkland
Hospital. That is why it was so important to get into the air.

[mainframetech]

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

I understand the possibility that they were stunned when the shots
rang out and they discovered that their charge was dead. But there was
time between for them to collect themselves up to when the body was
cleaned and placed in a casket. Time for them to get back into harness.
Yet Kellerman still led the fight for the body.

Chris

[Mark]

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

I understand the possibility that they were stunned when the shots
rang out and they discovered that their charge was dead. But there was
time between for them to collect themselves up to when the body was
cleaned and placed in a casket. Time for them to get back into harness.
Yet Kellerman still led the fight for the body.
Chris

You and I see the human condition differently. They had blown it, and
they wanted the Kennedys (and Johnsons) out of harm's way, back on
familiar ground. No conspiracy need apply.

Mark

[mainframetech]

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

I understand the possibility that they were stunned when the shots
rang out and they discovered that their charge was dead. But there was
time between for them to collect themselves up to when the body was
cleaned and placed in a casket. Time for them to get back into harness.
Yet Kellerman still led the fight for the body.
Chris

You and I see the human condition differently. They had blown it, and
they wanted the Kennedys (and Johnsons) out of harm's way, back on
familiar ground. No conspiracy need apply.
Mark

Yes, while I believe much of what you say, I also believe in the
courage and fortitude of the agents to 'get the job done' when it was
called for.

Chris

[Mark]

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

I understand the possibility that they were stunned when the shots
rang out and they discovered that their charge was dead. But there was
time between for them to collect themselves up to when the body was
cleaned and placed in a casket. Time for them to get back into harness.
Yet Kellerman still led the fight for the body.
Chris

You and I see the human condition differently. They had blown it, and
they wanted the Kennedys (and Johnsons) out of harm's way, back on
familiar ground. No conspiracy need apply.
Mark

Yes, while I believe much of what you say, I also believe in the
courage and fortitude of the agents to 'get the job done' when it was
called for.
Chris

You cite them for "courage and fortitude" but are they part of your
conspiracy theory? Mark

[mainframetech]

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Ok. But the point I was trying to make, Chris, is that they, in their
shock, had a damn good reason to get the Kennedys out of Dodge City. They
were not in a state of mind to listen to DALLAS officials lecture them
about local law. I think that's very understandable.

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

No. Mark

I understand the possibility that they were stunned when the shots
rang out and they discovered that their charge was dead. But there was
time between for them to collect themselves up to when the body was
cleaned and placed in a casket. Time for them to get back into harness.
Yet Kellerman still led the fight for the body.
Chris

You and I see the human condition differently. They had blown it, and
they wanted the Kennedys (and Johnsons) out of harm's way, back on
familiar ground. No conspiracy need apply.
Mark

Yes, while I believe much of what you say, I also believe in the
courage and fortitude of the agents to 'get the job done' when it was
called for.
Chris

You cite them for "courage and fortitude" but are they part of your
conspiracy theory? Mark

A few were, but not all agents. On my list of suspects are Kellerman
and Greer and Rowley from the SS, and Frazier from the FBI, and some
others. Higher up there was LBJ, possibly Hoover (who was at least aware
of conspiracy) and 1 or 2 mafia bosses.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Is that your legal opinion?

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Is that your legal opinion?

My opinion comes from reading and learning that Texas law at the time
insisted on a Dallas Medical Examiner doing an autopsy on ANY murder
victim.

Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

It all hangs together. Probably better than the WCR.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Is that your legal opinion?

My opinion comes from reading and learning that Texas law at the time
insisted on a Dallas Medical Examiner doing an autopsy on ANY murder
victim.

That's nice. Have you ever found a real lawyer who believes that?

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

It all hangs together. Probably better than the WCR.

None of it fits the evidence. 'nuff said.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Is that your legal opinion?

My opinion comes from reading and learning that Texas law at the time
insisted on a Dallas Medical Examiner doing an autopsy on ANY murder
victim.

That's nice. Have you ever found a real lawyer who believes that?

I haven't bothered to look. It was stated by the Medical Examiner.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
It all hangs together. Probably better than the WCR.

None of it fits the evidence. 'nuff said.

Much does, so snuff the 'nuff.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Is that your legal opinion?

My opinion comes from reading and learning that Texas law at the time
insisted on a Dallas Medical Examiner doing an autopsy on ANY murder
victim.

That's nice. Have you ever found a real lawyer who believes that?

I haven't bothered to look. It was stated by the Medical Examiner.

You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
It all hangs together. Probably better than the WCR.

None of it fits the evidence. 'nuff said.

Much does, so snuff the 'nuff.

Silliness.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Is that your legal opinion?

My opinion comes from reading and learning that Texas law at the time
insisted on a Dallas Medical Examiner doing an autopsy on ANY murder
victim.

That's nice. Have you ever found a real lawyer who believes that?

I haven't bothered to look. It was stated by the Medical Examiner.

You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch. And no one needed to talk about it in sworn
testimony either. However, there were eyewitnesses to enough that there
was NO DOUBT that the switch was made. I've been over it a hundred times
and you're just repeating the whole conversation again.

The witnesses were Dennis David and a fellow named Rebentisch and a
couple of other fellows that helped carry in the SHIPPING casket at
6:35pm. Edward Reed helped and saw when the shipping casket was opened
that it was the body of JFK. I've shown testimony for all that. A fellow
named McDonald saw the body arrive in a helicopter when he was very young.
As well, Dennis David saw the family arrive at least a half hour later
than the Shipping casket, and they had come with the Bronze casket and all
the FBI and SS agents. The Bronze casket arrived around back at the
morgue at about 7:17pm.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
It all hangs together. Probably better than the WCR.

None of it fits the evidence. 'nuff said.

Much does, so snuff the 'nuff.

Silliness.

Forward.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Is that your legal opinion?

My opinion comes from reading and learning that Texas law at the time
insisted on a Dallas Medical Examiner doing an autopsy on ANY murder
victim.

That's nice. Have you ever found a real lawyer who believes that?

I haven't bothered to look. It was stated by the Medical Examiner.

You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T

Go to the 2:00 entry in this timeline:

"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."

Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Post by mainframetech
And no one needed to talk about it in sworn testimony either.

Then why did you claim there were witnesses that proved that?

Post by mainframetech
However, there were eyewitnesses to enough that there
was NO DOUBT that the switch was made. I've been over it a hundred times
and you're just repeating the whole conversation again.

So now we are getting to the truth of the matter. It is not documents and
witnesses that prove JFK's body was switched. You arrived at that
conclusion through your FUBAR conspiracy hobbyist figuring.

Post by mainframetech
The witnesses were Dennis David and a fellow named Rebentisch and a
couple of other fellows that helped carry in the SHIPPING casket at
6:35pm. Edward Reed helped and saw when the shipping casket was opened
that it was the body of JFK.

When witnesses give conflicting accounts of an event, neither proves
anything because we know one account has to be in error. They can't both
be right. Siebert and O'Neill reported they accompanied the ornamental
casket that was taken from Andrews to Bethesda by Navy ambulance and they
were present when the body was removed from that casket. Don't bother with
your bullshit claim that they left the body unattended during the x-rays
because that happened AFTER they had already seen the body removed from
the casket they accompanied from Andrews.

Post by mainframetech
I've shown testimony for all that. A fellow
named McDonald saw the body arrive in a helicopter when he was very young.
As well, Dennis David saw the family arrive at least a half hour later
than the Shipping casket, and they had come with the Bronze casket and all
the FBI and SS agents. The Bronze casket arrived around back at the
morgue at about 7:17pm.

The bronze casket is the one that had JFK's body in it. Whether a shipping
casket arrived a little earlier than that I don't know but I know JFK's
body wasn't in it. It would have been logistically impossible to do that.
TV cameras and numerous witnesses were at Andrews when AF1 arrived and no
shipping casket was ever removed from the plane. JFK's closest circle of
friends and advisers have said that they did not leave the body
unattended. During the flight. There was no chance for anyone to switch
caskets, even if somehow someone figured out how to hide an extra casket
on the plane. The story is preposterous.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Of course, when the Medical Examiner of Dallas (Earl Rose) told the SS
agents they had to leave the body in Dallas when they were trying to
remove it, and that they would be breaking the law, the SS agents, who
were of course, hard boiled federal agents as tough as they come,
immediately ignored Rose and kept on trying to steal the body, finally
succeeding after Henry Wade the DA said let them go. Which was not legal
either.

Is that your legal opinion?

My opinion comes from reading and learning that Texas law at the time
insisted on a Dallas Medical Examiner doing an autopsy on ANY murder
victim.

That's nice. Have you ever found a real lawyer who believes that?

I haven't bothered to look. It was stated by the Medical Examiner.

You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T
"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."
Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Because there were documents that helped to prove the switch. You've
heard all this before, why do you ask these questions you've asked before?
Is it to get more exposure to the public? Is it an ego thing?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And no one needed to talk about it in sworn testimony either.

Then why did you claim there were witnesses that proved that?

Because there were. You've heard all this before, why are you
repeating your questions all over again?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
However, there were eyewitnesses to enough that there
was NO DOUBT that the switch was made. I've been over it a hundred times
and you're just repeating the whole conversation again.

So now we are getting to the truth of the matter. It is not documents and
witnesses that prove JFK's body was switched. You arrived at that
conclusion through your FUBAR conspiracy hobbyist figuring.

No, which shows YOUR FUBAR thinking. You've heard all this before,
why are you asking the same things all over again?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The witnesses were Dennis David and a fellow named Rebentisch and a
couple of other fellows that helped carry in the SHIPPING casket at
6:35pm. Edward Reed helped and saw when the shipping casket was opened
that it was the body of JFK.

When witnesses give conflicting accounts of an event, neither proves
anything because we know one account has to be in error. They can't both
be right. Siebert and O'Neill reported they accompanied the ornamental
casket that was taken from Andrews to Bethesda by Navy ambulance and they
were present when the body was removed from that casket.

As it turns out, being not to smart, which I know is your problem, the
2 statements are both true. There were 3 casket arrivals at the morgue
that night, and some saw one of them and some saw another. The Shipping
casket came first to the morgue and the body was in it, and was seen when
the body was taken out and placed on the table. There was a third point
where the body was put in the Bronze casket and taken out to the base,
then brought back and opened and lo and behold, the body was there.

This allowed the FBI and SS agents to say they saw the body in a
Bronze casket and saw it come out and be put on the table. That way no
one was blamed for lying. They could truthfully say they saw the body
come out of the Bronze casket. It was part of the cover up of the casket
switch to get the shipping casket and the body to the morgue 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket and the family and all the agents.

Post by bigdog
Don't bother with
your bullshit claim that they left the body unattended during the x-rays
because that happened AFTER they had already seen the body removed from
the casket they accompanied from Andrews.

DON'T GIVE ME YOUR CRAP! That info was a flat statement under oath by
James Sibert, the FBI agent who made the comment. You cannot dismiss that
information like you try to do with others that prove the WCR is stupid.
I've also shown the way the casket switching allowed the agents to keep
from lying by bringing in the Bronze casket with the body in it later in
the evening, but before the autopsy. To echo the LNs, the agents lied!

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I've shown testimony for all that. A fellow
named McDonald saw the body arrive in a helicopter when he was very young.
As well, Dennis David saw the family arrive at least a half hour later
than the Shipping casket, and they had come with the Bronze casket and all
the FBI and SS agents. The Bronze casket arrived around back at the
morgue at about 7:17pm.

The bronze casket is the one that had JFK's body in it.

WRONG! This has all been discussed to death. You've been told all the
proofs that the SHIPPING casket arrived first and the body of JFK was seen
to be in it. Sworn testimony. If the body was NOT in the Bronze casket,
then there was a switch. Stop trying to beat a dead horse.

Post by bigdog
Whether a shipping
casket arrived a little earlier than that I don't know but I know JFK's
body wasn't in it.

WRONG as usual! You've seen the proof in sworn testimony that the
SHIPPING casket had the body in it. Answer that proof rather than run
away by saying it isn't so.

Post by bigdog
It would have been logistically impossible to do that.

WRONG! You're not all that logical, so try not to use logic.

Post by bigdog
TV cameras and numerous witnesses were at Andrews when AF1 arrived and no
shipping casket was ever removed from the plane.

Are you right out of your mind? Do you think the cameras stayed on
the plane door when the casket was coming down to ground and being put in
the ambulance? At some point the ambulance drove away, and no one was
taking pictures of the empty plane.

Post by bigdog
JFK's closest circle of
friends and advisers have said that they did not leave the body
unattended.

WRONG! I've proved that was a lie, right from the mouth of the FBI
agent who admitted they left the casket for periods of time. How many
other lies did he tell about leaving the casket? Further, there were 3
casket arrivals, which one were you talking about?

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T
"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."
Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Because there were documents that helped to prove the switch.

There are no documents that prove that and your FUBAR analysis of the
documents don't prove anything either.

Post by mainframetech
You've
heard all this before, why do you ask these questions you've asked before?
Is it to get more exposure to the public? Is it an ego thing?

I've heard all your nonsensical arguments before and they haven't improved
with age.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And no one needed to talk about it in sworn testimony either.

Then why did you claim there were witnesses that proved that?

Because there were. You've heard all this before, why are you
repeating your questions all over again?

So you say that no one talked about it in sworn testimony but that
witnesses proved that anyway.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
However, there were eyewitnesses to enough that there
was NO DOUBT that the switch was made. I've been over it a hundred times
and you're just repeating the whole conversation again.

So now we are getting to the truth of the matter. It is not documents and
witnesses that prove JFK's body was switched. You arrived at that
conclusion through your FUBAR conspiracy hobbyist figuring.

No, which shows YOUR FUBAR thinking. You've heard all this before,
why are you asking the same things all over again?

Why are you repeating the same nonsense all over again?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The witnesses were Dennis David and a fellow named Rebentisch and a
couple of other fellows that helped carry in the SHIPPING casket at
6:35pm. Edward Reed helped and saw when the shipping casket was opened
that it was the body of JFK.

When witnesses give conflicting accounts of an event, neither proves
anything because we know one account has to be in error. They can't both
be right. Siebert and O'Neill reported they accompanied the ornamental
casket that was taken from Andrews to Bethesda by Navy ambulance and they
were present when the body was removed from that casket.

As it turns out, being not to smart, which I know is your problem, the
2 statements are both true. There were 3 casket arrivals at the morgue
that night, and some saw one of them and some saw another. The Shipping
casket came first to the morgue and the body was in it, and was seen when
the body was taken out and placed on the table. There was a third point
where the body was put in the Bronze casket and taken out to the base,
then brought back and opened and lo and behold, the body was there.

I don't care if 20 caskets arrived at the morgue that night. JFK's body
was only in the bronze casket that Siebert and O'Neill accompanied to
Bethesda. I know that because it was the only casket unloaded from AF1.
There were numerous live TV cameras, films, and photographs not to mention
hundreds of witnesses. There is no way a second casket could have been
unloaded from that plane without it being apparent to all. Sibert and
O'Neill accompanied the only casket that was unloaded from AF1 and they
were with the casket from the time it was loaded into the ambulance until
JFK's body was removed from it at the Bethesda morgue. You have reached a
new level of silliness with his double casket switch. You have the body
being put back in the original casket. Just when was this done an how did
they manage to do it while Sibert and O'Neill were with the bronze casket
the whole time? In your desperation to save this turkey of a story, you
are just digging yourself a deeper hole.

Now you seem to be saying that after the body was removed from the
shipping casket and the clandestine surgery performed, they shipped it
back to Andrews, put it back in the bronze casket, and then sent it back
to Bethesda. If I hadn't seen so much silliness from you in the past I
would think you were doing a self parody but you seem to actually believe
this nonsense. Why don't you just claim they parachuted the body out of
AF1 and then shipped the empty bronze casket there by ambulance. It
wouldn't be any sillier than what you have just proposed.

Post by mainframetech
This allowed the FBI and SS agents to say they saw the body in a
Bronze casket and saw it come out and be put on the table. That way no
one was blamed for lying. They could truthfully say they saw the body
come out of the Bronze casket. It was part of the cover up of the casket
switch to get the shipping casket and the body to the morgue 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket and the family and all the agents.

They said they were with the casket the whole time. Are you now going to
tell us they were present when the body was put back in the casket and
they never bothered to mention that? You really are embarrassing yourself
with this nonsense.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Don't bother with
your bullshit claim that they left the body unattended during the x-rays
because that happened AFTER they had already seen the body removed from
the casket they accompanied from Andrews.

DON'T GIVE ME YOUR CRAP! That info was a flat statement under oath by
James Sibert, the FBI agent who made the comment.

Yes it was and it happened AFTER they had already seen the body taken out
of the casket. I could explain the timeline to a third grader but for some
reason it doesn't register with you. I'll try one more time to explain how
this happened. The order of events was as follows.

A. The bronze casket is unloaded from AF1 and place in the ambulance.

B. Sibert and O'Neill accompany the bronze casket to Bethesda.

C. The casket is brought into the morgue under the watch of Sibert and
O'Neill.

D. Sibert and O'Neill observe JFK's body removed from the bronze casket.

E. Preliminary autopsy works is done under the watch of Sibert and O'Neill.

F. The autopsy team decides to x-ray the body.

G. Sibert and O'Neill are asked to leave the room while the x-rays are
taken.

You have the body put back in the bronze casket during G but to make your
silly story work, it would have to have happened BEFORE D which is
impossible.

Post by mainframetech
You cannot dismiss that
information like you try to do with others that prove the WCR is stupid.
I've also shown the way the casket switching allowed the agents to keep
from lying by bringing in the Bronze casket with the body in it later in
the evening, but before the autopsy. To echo the LNs, the agents lied!

So you arbitrarily decided it was the agents that lied and not people like
Paul O'Connor who did the lying even though O'Connor's story doesn't make
sense because no shipping casket was unloaded from AF1.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I've shown testimony for all that. A fellow
named McDonald saw the body arrive in a helicopter when he was very young.
As well, Dennis David saw the family arrive at least a half hour later
than the Shipping casket, and they had come with the Bronze casket and all
the FBI and SS agents. The Bronze casket arrived around back at the
morgue at about 7:17pm.

The bronze casket is the one that had JFK's body in it.

WRONG! This has all been discussed to death. You've been told all the
proofs that the SHIPPING casket arrived first and the body of JFK was seen
to be in it. Sworn testimony. If the body was NOT in the Bronze casket,
then there was a switch. Stop trying to beat a dead horse.

Your timeline is completely FUBAR. The bronze casket arrived at the
loading dock and was logged in at 6:35. Nobody said any casket arrived at
7:17. That claim is a product of your poor reading comprehension.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Whether a shipping
casket arrived a little earlier than that I don't know but I know JFK's
body wasn't in it.

WRONG as usual! You've seen the proof in sworn testimony that the
SHIPPING casket had the body in it. Answer that proof rather than run
away by saying it isn't so.

Witnesses don't prove anything especially when they are contradicted by
other witnesses. If you look only at the eyewitness accounts, all you can
conclude is that one account has to be wrong. It doesn't tell you which
account is wrong. Your approach is to believe the one you want to believe.
The intelligent approach is to weigh the accounts against other known
facts. We know that the only casket that was unloaded from AF1 was the
bronze casket so that is the only one JFK's body could have been in.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
It would have been logistically impossible to do that.

WRONG! You're not all that logical, so try not to use logic.

That's certainly your approach.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
TV cameras and numerous witnesses were at Andrews when AF1 arrived and no
shipping casket was ever removed from the plane.

Are you right out of your mind? Do you think the cameras stayed on
the plane door when the casket was coming down to ground and being put in
the ambulance? At some point the ambulance drove away, and no one was
taking pictures of the empty plane.

And you don't think any of the newsmen or other witnesses who were at
Andrews would have seen a second casket unloaded. You think everybody just
suddenly disappeared when the casket drove away. Of course you're
forgetting that LBJ gave a brief speech to the American people after the
ambulance drove off. After giving the speech he stopped to greet
congressional leaders who had come to Andrews. Then he left by helicopter.
At that point you still have JFK's body in a shipping casket on AF1. Now
you want us to believe that as soon as LBJ left, the cameras quit rolling
and EVERYBODY disappeared. You also want us to believe that your
conspirators knew they could count on that happening and nobody would be
around when the shipping casket was unloaded. Then you want us to believe
after all these delays the shipping casket still arrived at Bethesda 42
minutes before the ambulance. Amazing the things you will convince
yourself of to try to save your silly theories.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
JFK's closest circle of
friends and advisers have said that they did not leave the body
unattended.

WRONG! I've proved that was a lie,

You've claimed it was a lie in complete absence of proof.

Post by mainframetech
right from the mouth of the FBI
agent who admitted they left the casket for periods of time.

The FBI agents were not onboard AF1 during the flight from Dallas and
could not speak to the question of whether the casket had been left
unattended during the flight. The also said they didn't leave the casket
unattended until they were asked to leave the room during the x-rays. By
that time they had already seen JFK's body removed from the bronze
casket.

Post by mainframetech
How many
other lies did he tell about leaving the casket? Further, there were 3
casket arrivals, which one were you talking about?

The only one that mattered. The bronze casket with JFK's body in it.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T
"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."
Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Because there were documents that helped to prove the switch.

There are no documents that prove that and your FUBAR analysis of the
documents don't prove anything either.

WRONG as usual! Part of the proof of the switch is the arrival time
of the SHIPPING casket at the Bethesda morgue. That is documented in Sgt.
Boyajian's after action report. So once again you screw up and fail.
And please note that this is a complete repetition of a discussion we've
had many, many times and I'm not going through it again. I'm outa here.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T
"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."
Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Because there were documents that helped to prove the switch.

There are no documents that prove that and your FUBAR analysis of the
documents don't prove anything either.

WRONG as usual! Part of the proof of the switch is the arrival time
of the SHIPPING casket at the Bethesda morgue. That is documented in Sgt.
Boyajian's after action report.

Where in his report does it say it was a shipping casket that arrived at
6:35?

Post by mainframetech
So once again you screw up and fail.
And please note that this is a complete repetition of a discussion we've
had many, many times and I'm not going through it again. I'm outa here.

Attaboy. Make a baseless claim then don't bother to stick around to defend
it.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T
"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."
Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Because there were documents that helped to prove the switch.

There are no documents that prove that and your FUBAR analysis of the
documents don't prove anything either.

WRONG as usual! Part of the proof of the switch is the arrival time
of the SHIPPING casket at the Bethesda morgue. That is documented in Sgt.
Boyajian's after action report.

Where in his report does it say it was a shipping casket that arrived at
6:35?

That report is "PART OF THE PROOF", please check above the wording that was used. Stop guessing and hoping. The after action report shows the time that the body arrived at the Bethesda morgue because Lipsey stated that the body in its casket would arrive first at the back door at the morgue. As well, the following is from the Dennis David ARRB interview:

"Dennis David stated in an ARRB interview that he was called at 6:30pm to get a detail together to bring in the casket that was about to arrive. He got the detail of 5-6 men and it was about 6:45pm that he and they went out and got the casket from a black hearse. He identified it as a SHIPPING casket, which he was familiar with during his time in Vietnam."

From: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708#relPageId=3&tab=page
Page 3

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So once again you screw up and fail.
And please note that this is a complete repetition of a discussion we've
had many, many times and I'm not going through it again. I'm outa here.

Attaboy. Make a baseless claim then don't bother to stick around to defend
it.

See above. I filled in the info that you've seen many times over.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T
"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."
Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Because there were documents that helped to prove the switch.

There are no documents that prove that and your FUBAR analysis of the
documents don't prove anything either.

WRONG as usual! Part of the proof of the switch is the arrival time
of the SHIPPING casket at the Bethesda morgue. That is documented in Sgt.
Boyajian's after action report.

Where in his report does it say it was a shipping casket that arrived at
6:35?

That report is "PART OF THE PROOF", please check above the wording that was used.

I did. Nowhere in Boyajian's report does he say the body arrived in a
shipping casket and yet you cite his report as proof that it did.

Post by mainframetech
Stop guessing and hoping. The after action report shows the time that the body arrived at the Bethesda morgue because Lipsey stated that the body in its casket would arrive first at the back door at the morgue.

It estimates the time of arrival and doesn't state it arrived in a shipping
casket.

Post by mainframetech
"Dennis David stated in an ARRB interview that he was called at 6:30pm to get a detail together to bring in the casket that was about to arrive. He got the detail of 5-6 men and it was about 6:45pm that he and they went out and got the casket from a black hearse. He identified it as a SHIPPING casket, which he was familiar with during his time in Vietnam."
From: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708#relPageId=3&tab=page
Page 3

David's ARRB interview was 3 decades later. It would be quite
understandable if he didn't remember details such as the type of vehicle
the body arrived in or even the type of casket. Shipping caskets would be
quite common at a military hospital so it would be quite easy for him to
conflate that with the casket JFK arrived in.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So once again you screw up and fail.
And please note that this is a complete repetition of a discussion we've
had many, many times and I'm not going through it again. I'm outa here.

Attaboy. Make a baseless claim then don't bother to stick around to defend
it.

See above. I filled in the info that you've seen many times over.

You cited a kook author who believes the same nonsense as you do.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T
"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."
Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Because there were documents that helped to prove the switch.

There are no documents that prove that and your FUBAR analysis of the
documents don't prove anything either.

WRONG as usual! Part of the proof of the switch is the arrival time
of the SHIPPING casket at the Bethesda morgue. That is documented in Sgt.
Boyajian's after action report.

Where in his report does it say it was a shipping casket that arrived at
6:35?

That report is "PART OF THE PROOF", please check above the wording that was used.

I did. Nowhere in Boyajian's report does he say the body arrived in a
shipping casket and yet you cite his report as proof that it did.

WRONG! I'm really concerned about you. You can't get any information
into your head that will stay, and you can't understand what's being told
to you. I never said to you that Boyajian said anything about any second
arrival. I don't think he was present for the second or third arrival.
You've just picked out that silly comment and tried to make something out
of it, but there nothing there.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Stop guessing and hoping. The after action report shows the time that the body arrived at the Bethesda morgue because Lipsey stated that the body in its casket would arrive first at the back door at the morgue.

It estimates the time of arrival and doesn't state it arrived in a shipping
casket.

So what? Other witnesses said it was in a SHIPPING casket.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
"Dennis David stated in an ARRB interview that he was called at 6:30pm to get a detail together to bring in the casket that was about to arrive. He got the detail of 5-6 men and it was about 6:45pm that he and they went out and got the casket from a black hearse. He identified it as a SHIPPING casket, which he was familiar with during his time in Vietnam."
From: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708#relPageId=3&tab=page
Page 3

David's ARRB interview was 3 decades later. It would be quite
understandable if he didn't remember details such as the type of vehicle
the body arrived in or even the type of casket. Shipping caskets would be
quite common at a military hospital so it would be quite easy for him to
conflate that with the casket JFK arrived in.

Ah, so you're fishing around for something that will cover for you.
Can't make anything work out properly.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So once again you screw up and fail.
And please note that this is a complete repetition of a discussion we've
had many, many times and I'm not going through it again. I'm outa here.

Attaboy. Make a baseless claim then don't bother to stick around to defend
it.

Attaboy! Fail to understand something simple and try to put it on someone else. Like your hero tries to do.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
See above. I filled in the info that you've seen many times over.

You cited a kook author who believes the same nonsense as you do.

I've shown you many witnesses and their sworn testimony.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T
"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."
Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Because there were documents that helped to prove the switch.

There are no documents that prove that and your FUBAR analysis of the
documents don't prove anything either.

WRONG as usual! Part of the proof of the switch is the arrival time
of the SHIPPING casket at the Bethesda morgue. That is documented in Sgt.
Boyajian's after action report.

Where in his report does it say it was a shipping casket that arrived at
6:35?

That report is "PART OF THE PROOF", please check above the wording that was used.

I did. Nowhere in Boyajian's report does he say the body arrived in a
shipping casket and yet you cite his report as proof that it did.

WRONG! I'm really concerned about you. You can't get any information
into your head that will stay, and you can't understand what's being told
to you. I never said to you that Boyajian said anything about any second
arrival. I don't think he was present for the second or third arrival.
You've just picked out that silly comment and tried to make something out
of it, but there nothing there.

So nobody logged in a second or third casket arrival.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Stop guessing and hoping. The after action report shows the time that the body arrived at the Bethesda morgue because Lipsey stated that the body in its casket would arrive first at the back door at the morgue.

It estimates the time of arrival and doesn't state it arrived in a shipping
casket.

So what? Other witnesses said it was in a SHIPPING casket.

Still others remember it as a bronze casket. The ones who said it was in a
shipping casket told their stories decades later. A detail like the type
of casket might very well be fuzzy to them and could have been influenced
by the fact it would be quite common for bodies to arrive at the morgue in
a shipping casket. It would be quite unusual for one to arrive in a burial
casket.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
"Dennis David stated in an ARRB interview that he was called at 6:30pm to get a detail together to bring in the casket that was about to arrive. He got the detail of 5-6 men and it was about 6:45pm that he and they went out and got the casket from a black hearse. He identified it as a SHIPPING casket, which he was familiar with during his time in Vietnam."
From: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708#relPageId=3&tab=page
Page 3

David's ARRB interview was 3 decades later. It would be quite
understandable if he didn't remember details such as the type of vehicle
the body arrived in or even the type of casket. Shipping caskets would be
quite common at a military hospital so it would be quite easy for him to
conflate that with the casket JFK arrived in.

Ah, so you're fishing around for something that will cover for you.
Can't make anything work out properly.

I'm simply trying to find a reasonable resolution to the conflicting
accounts of the type of casket. A fuzzy decades old memory seems quite
plausible to me. Much more so than your body snatching/musical casket
scenario which is ludicrous for reasons I have already spelled out for
you.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So once again you screw up and fail.
And please note that this is a complete repetition of a discussion we've
had many, many times and I'm not going through it again. I'm outa here.

Attaboy. Make a baseless claim then don't bother to stick around to defend
it.

Attaboy! Fail to understand something simple and try to put it on someone else. Like your hero tries to do.

There is nothing simple about the convoluted theories you have bought
into. They are quite bizarre.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
See above. I filled in the info that you've seen many times over.

You cited a kook author who believes the same nonsense as you do.

I've shown you many witnesses and their sworn testimony.

I've shown you how the timeline doesn't work for your theory. There is no
way a helicopter could have arrived at Bethesda 42 minutes before the Navy
ambulance given that they couldn't even unload your proposed shipping
casket until LBJ had finished his speech, stopped to talk to congressional
leaders, gotten on board his helicopter, and then all the witnesses and
cameras had dispersed. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt the
ambulance would have had a 20 minute head start and it is only a 40 minute
drive max.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
You never want to know what knowledgeable people have to say about
anything. Their opinions get in the way of your beliefs. Wade was a lawyer
and his opinions was the body could be removed from Texas under certain
stipulations and it would not jeopardize legal proceedings against the
suspect.

Cite and link for all that please.

http://www.businessinsider.com/kennedy-assassination-timeline-2013-11?r=UK&IR=T
"At this point, killing a president is not a federal offense. Because of
this, the medical examiner argues that the autopsy has to be performed
before the body is taken from Dallas. Johnson orders the body to be
released, but the ME refuses. Finally, he is overridden by Dallas district
attorney Henry Wade, who only agrees to release the body if Admiral Dr.
Burkley, Kennedy's private physician, promises to stay with the body until
it is put in the casket for the final time."
Do you honestly think Wade would have agreed to release the body if he
thought it would jeopardize his case against the assassin who at that time
was not known?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Because of the special circumstances, the DA didn't want a big fight
to erupt over the death of the president (my opinion) so he stepped in and
said it was OK for them to take the body. But the law says no, so Wade
broke the law.

Thanks for that opinion, Clarence Darrow.

No problem.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
And the casket switch was proven from facts, witnesses and documents,
as well as the cause of death being different from what the pathologists
put in the phony Autopsy Report (AR).

You've always had a low standard of proof for the things you want to
believe.

So "facts, witnesses and documents" aren't enough for you. Strange.

The problem is the silly way you interpret the witnesses and the
documents. There is no document that says JFK's body was switched to a
different casket prior to the autopsy. There is no witness who said they
saw that happen.

WRONG! It would be foolish for anyone involved to note down that they
had helped make the switch.

Then why did you claim there were documents that proved that?

Because there were documents that helped to prove the switch.

There are no documents that prove that and your FUBAR analysis of the
documents don't prove anything either.

WRONG as usual! Part of the proof of the switch is the arrival time
of the SHIPPING casket at the Bethesda morgue. That is documented in Sgt.
Boyajian's after action report.

Where in his report does it say it was a shipping casket that arrived at
6:35?

That report is "PART OF THE PROOF", please check above the wording that was used.

I did. Nowhere in Boyajian's report does he say the body arrived in a
shipping casket and yet you cite his report as proof that it did.

WRONG! I'm really concerned about you. You can't get any information
into your head that will stay, and you can't understand what's being told
to you. I never said to you that Boyajian said anything about any second
arrival. I don't think he was present for the second or third arrival.
You've just picked out that silly comment and tried to make something out
of it, but there nothing there.

So nobody logged in a second or third casket arrival.

The arrival of the second casket was noted and recorded by Dennis
David. Why don 't you know more about this case? Whether a log was kept
at all of casket arrivals we don't know. The arrival the third time was
recorded by the FBI agents, who helped bring it in and helped put the body
on the table.

So all casket arrivals were recorded.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Stop guessing and hoping. The after action report shows the time that the body arrived at the Bethesda morgue because Lipsey stated that the body in its casket would arrive first at the back door at the morgue.

It estimates the time of arrival and doesn't state it arrived in a shipping
casket.

So what? Other witnesses said it was in a SHIPPING casket.

Still others remember it as a bronze casket.

WRONG! For the first arrival of the SHIPPING casket, all witnesses
said it was a SHIPPING casket. The second arrival which was the Bronze
casket was noted as such. The third too. This has all been gone over,
why is it you can't grasp it? Is it your denial syndrome? WCR
brainwashing?

Post by bigdog
The ones who said it was in a
shipping casket told their stories decades later. A detail like the type
of casket might very well be fuzzy to them and could have been influenced
by the fact it would be quite common for bodies to arrive at the morgue in
a shipping casket. It would be quite unusual for one to arrive in a burial
casket.

A lame effort to try and avoid the sworn testimony and statements from
all the men that corroborate each other.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
"Dennis David stated in an ARRB interview that he was called at 6:30pm to get a detail together to bring in the casket that was about to arrive. He got the detail of 5-6 men and it was about 6:45pm that he and they went out and got the casket from a black hearse. He identified it as a SHIPPING casket, which he was familiar with during his time in Vietnam."
From: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=708#relPageId=3&tab=page
Page 3

David's ARRB interview was 3 decades later. It would be quite
understandable if he didn't remember details such as the type of vehicle
the body arrived in or even the type of casket. Shipping caskets would be
quite common at a military hospital so it would be quite easy for him to
conflate that with the casket JFK arrived in.

Ah, so you're fishing around for something that will cover for you.
Can't make anything work out properly.

I'm simply trying to find a reasonable resolution to the conflicting
accounts of the type of casket. A fuzzy decades old memory seems quite
plausible to me. Much more so than your body snatching/musical casket
scenario which is ludicrous for reasons I have already spelled out for
you.

Your reasons are wrong! The record shows what happened, and there is
corroboration for the type of caskets at various times, and the sequence
of the arrivals. You have been given a sequence and timings and you
refuse to argue about that, you're off in the wilderness again. I gave
you the list of steps that occurred, now use it or forget it.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So once again you screw up and fail.
And please note that this is a complete repetition of a discussion we've
had many, many times and I'm not going through it again. I'm outa here.

Attaboy. Make a baseless claim then don't bother to stick around to defend
it.

Attaboy! Fail to understand something simple and try to put it on someone else. Like your hero tries to do.

There is nothing simple about the convoluted theories you have bought
into. They are quite bizarre.

They are in the record, which has all been shown to you. And so far,
you have been unable to argue them. And they are not "theories" like the
WCR uses, they are recordings of actual events.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
See above. I filled in the info that you've seen many times over.

You cited a kook author who believes the same nonsense as you do.

I've shown you many witnesses and their sworn testimony.

I've shown you how the timeline doesn't work for your theory.

THERE IS NO THEORY! I'M SHOWING YOU ACTUAL EVENTS FROM SWORN TESTIMONY
AND STATEMENTS. Get it through your head! And you haven't shown
anything. The sequence list was written at your request. Use it to make
your arguments or forget the whole thing and admit that you are unable to
understand it.

Post by bigdog
There is no
way a helicopter could have arrived at Bethesda 42 minutes before the Navy
ambulance given that they couldn't even unload your proposed shipping
casket until LBJ had finished his speech, stopped to talk to congressional
leaders, gotten on board his helicopter, and then all the witnesses and
cameras had dispersed. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt the
ambulance would have had a 20 minute head start and it is only a 40 minute
drive max.

That's a lot of maybes. And don't forget the 10-15 minutes they waited
at the main entrance when letting off passengers. BJ gave a 3 line speech
which was done in 30 seconds or less. He walked off to a helicopter, and
the people milled around for a while, not paying any attention to the AF1
plane:

Plenty of time available to get the SHIPPIBNG casket off and into a
helicopter, which was still the plan right to the time of landing. as
announced by the news person narrating one of the arrival videos.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

Well, in case you didn't know it, Dallas was already known as the City
of Hate even before the JFK assassination. That is why some people
warned JFK to not go to Dallas.

Post by Mark
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

What are you babbling about? Jackie would not go without her husband's
body and LBJ wanted Jackie to get out of Dallas before the Russian bombs
started falling.

Post by Mark
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

When? AFTER the assassination? The risk when was WWIII not the KKK.

Post by Mark
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

You will make up any straw man to avoid the facts.

Post by Mark
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the

Yes, as military men they have to follow orders. They were told not to
exam the back wound and they obeyed order. Humes was ordered to change
his report and he obeyed orders. Does not mean they pulled a trigger.

Post by Mark
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.

They are called Alterationists.

Post by Mark
Mark

[Mark]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

Well, in case you didn't know it, Dallas was already known as the City
of Hate even before the JFK assassination. That is why some people
warned JFK to not go to Dallas.

Post by Mark
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

What are you babbling about? Jackie would not go without her husband's
body and LBJ wanted Jackie to get out of Dallas before the Russian bombs
started falling.

Post by Mark
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

When? AFTER the assassination? The risk when was WWIII not the KKK.

Post by Mark
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

You will make up any straw man to avoid the facts.

Post by Mark
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the

Yes, as military men they have to follow orders. They were told not to
exam the back wound and they obeyed order. Humes was ordered to change
his report and he obeyed orders. Does not mean they pulled a trigger.

I'll leave it to the good military folks on here whether their oath
requires or required them to commit treason to the cover-up of a
conspiracy to murder their Commander-in-Chief. Mark

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

Well, in case you didn't know it, Dallas was already known as the City
of Hate even before the JFK assassination. That is why some people
warned JFK to not go to Dallas.

Post by Mark
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

What are you babbling about? Jackie would not go without her husband's
body and LBJ wanted Jackie to get out of Dallas before the Russian bombs
started falling.

Post by Mark
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

When? AFTER the assassination? The risk when was WWIII not the KKK.

Post by Mark
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

You will make up any straw man to avoid the facts.

Post by Mark
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the

Yes, as military men they have to follow orders. They were told not to
exam the back wound and they obeyed order. Humes was ordered to change
his report and he obeyed orders. Does not mean they pulled a trigger.

I'll leave it to the good military folks on here whether their oath
requires or required them to commit treason to the cover-up of a
conspiracy to murder their Commander-in-Chief. Mark

Balony. They didn't know it was Treason. They were just following orders.

[mainframetech]

Post by Mark

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

Well, in case you didn't know it, Dallas was already known as the City
of Hate even before the JFK assassination. That is why some people
warned JFK to not go to Dallas.

Post by Mark
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

What are you babbling about? Jackie would not go without her husband's
body and LBJ wanted Jackie to get out of Dallas before the Russian bombs
started falling.

Post by Mark
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

When? AFTER the assassination? The risk when was WWIII not the KKK.

Post by Mark
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

You will make up any straw man to avoid the facts.

Post by Mark
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the

Yes, as military men they have to follow orders. They were told not to
exam the back wound and they obeyed order. Humes was ordered to change
his report and he obeyed orders. Does not mean they pulled a trigger.

I'll leave it to the good military folks on here whether their oath
requires or required them to commit treason to the cover-up of a
conspiracy to murder their Commander-in-Chief. Mark

If they were unaware of any plot, then they were not guilty of treason.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

Well, in case you didn't know it, Dallas was already known as the City
of Hate even before the JFK assassination. That is why some people
warned JFK to not go to Dallas.

Post by Mark
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

What are you babbling about? Jackie would not go without her husband's
body and LBJ wanted Jackie to get out of Dallas before the Russian bombs
started falling.

Post by Mark
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

When? AFTER the assassination? The risk when was WWIII not the KKK.

Post by Mark
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

You will make up any straw man to avoid the facts.

Post by Mark
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the

Yes, as military men they have to follow orders. They were told not to
exam the back wound and they obeyed order. Humes was ordered to change
his report and he obeyed orders. Does not mean they pulled a trigger.

I'll leave it to the good military folks on here whether their oath
requires or required them to commit treason to the cover-up of a
conspiracy to murder their Commander-in-Chief. Mark

If they were unaware of any plot, then they were not guilty of treason.
Chris

Why should they be smart enough to know that it was a plot? They didn't
witness the shooting. Humes thought the back wound did not exit. He did
not even know about the throat wound so he couldn't call it an entrance
wound. Even if he had the CIA had propaganda assets in place to claim that
JFK was shot in the throat by Oswald when he turned to look back at the
TSBD. After all, look at all those SS agents who turned to look back when
they heard the first shot.

[Mark]

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

Well, in case you didn't know it, Dallas was already known as the City
of Hate even before the JFK assassination. That is why some people
warned JFK to not go to Dallas.

Post by Mark
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

What are you babbling about? Jackie would not go without her husband's
body and LBJ wanted Jackie to get out of Dallas before the Russian bombs
started falling.

Post by Mark
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

When? AFTER the assassination? The risk when was WWIII not the KKK.

Post by Mark
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

You will make up any straw man to avoid the facts.

Post by Mark
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the

Yes, as military men they have to follow orders. They were told not to
exam the back wound and they obeyed order. Humes was ordered to change
his report and he obeyed orders. Does not mean they pulled a trigger.

I'll leave it to the good military folks on here whether their oath
requires or required them to commit treason to the cover-up of a
conspiracy to murder their Commander-in-Chief. Mark

If they were unaware of any plot, then they were not guilty of treason.
Chris

Chris, tell us what you think the plotters said to

[mainframetech]

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by Mark

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

Well, in case you didn't know it, Dallas was already known as the City
of Hate even before the JFK assassination. That is why some people
warned JFK to not go to Dallas.

Post by Mark
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

What are you babbling about? Jackie would not go without her husband's
body and LBJ wanted Jackie to get out of Dallas before the Russian bombs
started falling.

Post by Mark
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

When? AFTER the assassination? The risk when was WWIII not the KKK.

Post by Mark
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

You will make up any straw man to avoid the facts.

Post by Mark
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the

Yes, as military men they have to follow orders. They were told not to
exam the back wound and they obeyed order. Humes was ordered to change
his report and he obeyed orders. Does not mean they pulled a trigger.

I'll leave it to the good military folks on here whether their oath
requires or required them to commit treason to the cover-up of a
conspiracy to murder their Commander-in-Chief. Mark

If they were unaware of any plot, then they were not guilty of treason.
Chris

Chris, tell us what you think the plotters said to

I assume you mean to Humes, who was supposedly in charge of the
autopsy. Amnd it was obvious that someone called Humes, since he and
Boswell were waiting for the body at 6:35pm at the loading dock outside of
the morgue.

From succeeding steps taken by Humes and Boswell, we can make the
assumption that what they did was ordered by phone, possibly by Admiral
Burkley, but it might have been anyone with high enough authority. The
plotters knew that there would be many shooters in Dealey Plaza firing at
JFK and that if any of those bullets were recovered from the body, that it
was proof of conspiracy. They also knew that if there were any wounds
from other than the rear, that the same would be true.

Humes and Boswell did clandestine work on the body to remove bullets
and fragments, and to modify the body enough that it would appear that it
had been hit from above and behind. This work was witnessed by 2 or more
eye witnesses.. They were Edward Reed, X-ray Technician and Tom Robinson,
Mortician. Another X-ray Technician was also there, Jerrol Custer.

The body arrived in a plain shipping casket, at 6:35pm, and the Bronze
casket with the family and the FBI and SS agents arrived at the morgue at
about 7:17pm. That gave Humes and Boswell 42 minutes to work on the body
without the agents or the family hanging over them and seeing what they
were doing.

Chris

[Mark]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

Well, in case you didn't know it, Dallas was already known as the City
of Hate even before the JFK assassination. That is why some people
warned JFK to not go to Dallas.

Post by Mark
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

What are you babbling about? Jackie would not go without her husband's
body and LBJ wanted Jackie to get out of Dallas before the Russian bombs
started falling.

Post by Mark
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

When? AFTER the assassination? The risk when was WWIII not the KKK.

Post by Mark
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

You will make up any straw man to avoid the facts.

Post by Mark
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the

Yes, as military men they have to follow orders. They were told not to
exam the back wound and they obeyed order. Humes was ordered to change
his report and he obeyed orders. Does not mean they pulled a trigger.

Post by Mark
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.

They are called Alterationists.

Is that an appeal to authority? Mark

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.

Well, in case you didn't know it, Dallas was already known as the City
of Hate even before the JFK assassination. That is why some people
warned JFK to not go to Dallas.

Post by Mark
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.

What are you babbling about? Jackie would not go without her husband's
body and LBJ wanted Jackie to get out of Dallas before the Russian bombs
started falling.

Post by Mark
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.

When? AFTER the assassination? The risk when was WWIII not the KKK.

Post by Mark
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.

You will make up any straw man to avoid the facts.

Post by Mark
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the

Yes, as military men they have to follow orders. They were told not to
exam the back wound and they obeyed order. Humes was ordered to change
his report and he obeyed orders. Does not mean they pulled a trigger.

Post by Mark
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.

They are called Alterationists.

Is that an appeal to authority? Mark

No, silly. An appeal to Authority is a logical error.
Alerationist means that they don't accept evidence as real.

[claviger]

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

The SSA were in panic mode for more than one reason, so
President Johnson made the final decision to get back to DC.
His big mistake was delaying the departure for the official
swearing in ceremony by a Federal Judge that was simply
unnecessary. According to Constitutional Law VP Johnson
was automatically President and CIC upon the death of the
previous President. Any ceremonial process could have
waited to be done at Andrews AFB. It was bad judgement
on the part of LBJ because Air Force One was a sitting duck
while waiting for the Federal Judge to arrive.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

The SSA were in panic mode for more than one reason, so
President Johnson made the final decision to get back to DC.

He thought it was the beginning of WWIII.

Post by claviger
His big mistake was delaying the departure for the official
swearing in ceremony by a Federal Judge that was simply
unnecessary. According to Constitutional Law VP Johnson
was automatically President and CIC upon the death of the

True, but he was given bad advice from Washington and thought he had to
be sworn in.

Post by claviger
previous President. Any ceremonial process could have
waited to be done at Andrews AFB. It was bad judgement
on the part of LBJ because Air Force One was a sitting duck
while waiting for the Federal Judge to arrive.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.

Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.

Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.

So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.

Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

?

[bigdog]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

[Mark]

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an

She wasn't thinking of that. Her husband had been in the Navy so she was
obsessed with brand loyalty. Bethesda was a also a natural choice for most
President's health care. Why don't you make up a conspiracy theory that
SHE knew the doctors and knew that they would lie and cover up JFK's
Addison's Disease? Do I have to do all the work for you? So lazy!

Post by Mark
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

The military had willing doctors at all miltarty hospitals. The head of
Bethesda told them to obey the Army General as if he were the Commander of
Bethesda.

[Mark]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an

She wasn't thinking of that. Her husband had been in the Navy so she was
obsessed with brand loyalty. Bethesda was a also a natural choice for most
President's health care. Why don't you make up a conspiracy theory that
SHE knew the doctors and knew that they would lie and cover up JFK's
Addison's Disease? Do I have to do all the work for you? So lazy!

Post by Mark
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

The military had willing doctors at all miltarty hospitals. The head of
Bethesda told them to obey the Army General as if he were the Commander of
Bethesda.

Tony, I'm not going to try to argue with you. I'm actually worried
about you. You're not making any sense. I'm sorry to have to say that.
You have said you have people who deliver meals and help clean the house.
Glad to know that. Lean on them. Sincerely, Mark.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an

She wasn't thinking of that. Her husband had been in the Navy so she was
obsessed with brand loyalty. Bethesda was a also a natural choice for most
President's health care. Why don't you make up a conspiracy theory that
SHE knew the doctors and knew that they would lie and cover up JFK's
Addison's Disease? Do I have to do all the work for you? So lazy!

Post by Mark
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

The military had willing doctors at all miltarty hospitals. The head of
Bethesda told them to obey the Army General as if he were the Commander of
Bethesda.

Tony, I'm not going to try to argue with you. I'm actually worried
about you. You're not making any sense. I'm sorry to have to say that.
You have said you have people who deliver meals and help clean the house.
Glad to know that. Lean on them. Sincerely, Mark.

Nothing unusual about that. I live in a senior citizen complex and many
of us have exactly the same things.

[Mark]

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark

Post by Anthony Marsh

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an

She wasn't thinking of that. Her husband had been in the Navy so she was
obsessed with brand loyalty. Bethesda was a also a natural choice for most
President's health care. Why don't you make up a conspiracy theory that
SHE knew the doctors and knew that they would lie and cover up JFK's
Addison's Disease? Do I have to do all the work for you? So lazy!

Post by Mark
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

The military had willing doctors at all miltarty hospitals. The head of
Bethesda told them to obey the Army General as if he were the Commander of
Bethesda.

Tony, I'm not going to try to argue with you. I'm actually worried
about you. You're not making any sense. I'm sorry to have to say that.
You have said you have people who deliver meals and help clean the house.
Glad to know that. Lean on them. Sincerely, Mark.

Nothing unusual about that. I live in a senior citizen complex and many
of us have exactly the same things.

Okay, Tony. Mark

[claviger]

Post by Anthony Marsh
The military had willing doctors at all miltarty hospitals. The head of
Bethesda told them to obey the Army General as if he were the
Commander of Bethesda.

Another fiction by CTs, and you in particular. This scary monster story
is pure bunkum, and was debunked years ago. Repeating it time after
time does not make it real. You are perpetrating a CT fiction from the
past because your ongoing arguments fail with regularity.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by claviger

Post by Anthony Marsh
The military had willing doctors at all miltarty hospitals. The head of
Bethesda told them to obey the Army General as if he were the
Commander of Bethesda.

Another fiction by CTs, and you in particular. This scary monster story
is pure bunkum, and was debunked years ago. Repeating it time after
time does not make it real. You are perpetrating a CT fiction from the
past because your ongoing arguments fail with regularity.

Why can't you read the interviews we point out?
Something wrong with your browser? So now I have to cut and paste
everything for you?
Finck testified in the Clay Shaw trial. We've been over this thousands
of times, but you refuse to pay attention.

How can you deny this when it comes directly from the McAdams web site?

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/finckshaw.htm


Q: Was Dr. Humes running the show?
A: Well, I heard Dr. Humes stating that -- he said, "Who is in charge
here?" and I heard an Army General, I don't remember his name, stating,
I am." You must understand that in those circumstances, there were law
enforcement officers, military people with various ranks, and you have
to co-ordinate the operation according to directions.
Q: But you were one of the three qualified pathologists standing at that
autopsy table, were you not, Doctor?
A: Yes, I am.
Q: Was this Army General a qualified pathologist?
A: No.
Q: Was he a doctor?
A: No, not to my knowledge.
Q: Can you give me his name, Colonel?
A: No, I can't. I don't remember.
Q: Do you happened to have the photographs and X-rays taken of President
Kennedy's body at the time of the autopsy and shortly thereafter? Do you?
A: I do not have X-rays or photographs of President Kennedy with me.
Q: What time did you arrive at Bethesda Naval Hospital in regard to the
autopsy? By that I mean was the autopsy already begun?
A: When I arrived, X-rays had been taken of the head. I had been told so
over the phone by Dr. Humes when he called me at home, and I arrived, I
would say, a short time after the beginning of the autopsy, I can't give
you an exact time, it was approximately 8:00 o'clock at night.
Q: Had any work been done on President Kennedy's body in regard to the
performing of the autopsy by the time you got there?
A: As I recall, the brain had been removed. Dr. Humes told me that to
remove the brain he did not have to carry out the procedure you carry
out when there is no wound in the skull. The wound was of such an
extent, over five inches in diameter, that it was not of a great
difficulty for him to remove this brain, and this is the best of my
recollection. There were no removals of the wound of entry in the back
of the eck, no removal of the wound of entry in the back of the head
prior to my arrival, and I made a positive identification of both wounds
of entry. At this time I might, for the sake of clarity, say that in the
autopsy report we may have called the first wound the one in the head
and the second wound the one in the neck, because we did not know the
sequence of shots at that time. Again, the sequence of shots was
determined by the Zapruder film, so what we did, we determined the entry
of the bullet wound and stated that there were two bullet wounds, one in
the back of the neck and the other in the back of the head, without
giving a sequence.
Q: How many other military personnel were present at the autopsy in the
autopsy room?
A: That autopsy room was quite crowded. It is a small autopsy room, and
when you are called in circumstances like that to look at the wound of
the President of the United States who is dead, you don't look around
too much to ask people for their names and take notes on who they are
and how many there are. I did not do so. The room was crowded with
military and civilian personnel and federal agents, Secret Service
agents, FBI agents, for part of the autopsy, but I cannot give you a
precise breakdown as regards the attendance of the people in that
autopsy room at Bethesda Naval Hospital.
Q: Colonel, did you feel that you had to take orders from this Army
General that was there directing the autopsy?
A: No, because there were others, there were Admirals.
Q: There were Admirals?
A: Oh, yes, there were Admirals, and when you are a Lieutenant Colonel
in the Army you just follow orders, and at the end of the autopsy we
were specifically told -- as I recall it, it was by Admiral Kinney, the
Surgeon General of the Navy -- this is sub- ject to verification -- we
were specifically told not to discuss the case.
Q: You were told not to discuss the case?
A: -- to discuss the case without coordination with the Attorney General.
Q: Colonel, can you tell me how the body got from Dallas to Washington,
D.C. when the killing occurred in Dallas, Texas, if you know?
MR. DYMOND: Your Honor, I object to that.
...
Q: I believe you told Mr. Dymond, Colonel, the reason you did not
dissect the track of the bullet through the throat was because you did
not want to mutilate the body of the President. Is that correct?
A: I did not consider this dissection --
Q: Did you or did you not tell Mr. Dymond a few moments ago that you did
not dissect the track of the President's throat because of the
mutilation of the body that would result?
A: Yes, I did say that.
Q: And you also told me yesterday you were told not to go into the
throat area?
A: Yes, I don't remember the details about this, who said what.
Q: You were told?
A: From what I remember.
Q: And you did not do it?
A: We did not remove the organs of the neck, obviously.
Q: Describe to me what you did with the body in autopsy, what did you do
with the body and how did you perform this autopsy?
A: Please repeat your question, I did not hear it.
Q: Will you describe for me what incisions you made into the body of the
President.
A: I did not make the incisions into the body, as I recall I was called
to examine the wounds and the incisions were made by the other two
pathologists who performed the autopsy, Dr. Humes and Dr. Boswell, and
who signed this autopsy report. My role in this autopsy was to emphasize
the wounds, to examine the wounds, that is why I was called.

[bigdog]

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

It was a mistake not to use a Washington area coroner's office for the
autopsy. A medico-legal autopsy is a requirement in homicide cases and any
of the area's coroners would have had far more experience doing that than
either of the military hospitals. I don't know who made the decision to
have the autopsy at one of the military hospitals but it was a poor one.
There was no reason a slain president needed to taken there for an autopsy
when there were experienced forensic pathologists who could have done a
better job of it than anyone at Walter Reed or Bethesda. The widow's
wishes should have been ignored as they would have been for any other
widow of a homicide victim.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

It was a mistake not to use a Washington area coroner's office for the
autopsy. A medico-legal autopsy is a requirement in homicide cases and any
of the area's coroners would have had far more experience doing that than
either of the military hospitals.

The law in Texas was that the autopsy was to be performed in Dallas by
the Medical Examiner (Earl Rose). He fought with the SS agents who were
trying to steal the body and the limousine and get away with it.
Finally, the Dallas CA gave the OJK to let them take it. It as necessary
for the plotters to get the body to a military hospital where they had the
ability to give orders that HAD TO be followed.

It was decided to take the body to either Walter Reed hospital or to
Bethesda, and they gave Jackie the choice, and she picked Bethesda.

Post by bigdog
I don't know who made the decision to
have the autopsy at one of the military hospitals but it was a poor one.
There was no reason a slain president needed to taken there for an autopsy
when there were experienced forensic pathologists who could have done a
better job of it than anyone at Walter Reed or Bethesda. The widow's
wishes should have been ignored as they would have been for any other
widow of a homicide victim.

In a normal case it may not have mattered, but this was a conspiracy
that had to be covered up. The body may have had multiple bullets from
multiple weapons, and they need a military hospital where they could order
the pathologists to record a phony cause of death and remove any bullets.
It was shown that the final kill shot was to the forehead/temple area from
the front, so that they had to make changes in the body to make it look
more like it was a bullet from above and behind.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

It was a mistake not to use a Washington area coroner's office for the
autopsy. A medico-legal autopsy is a requirement in homicide cases and any
of the area's coroners would have had far more experience doing that than
either of the military hospitals.

The law in Texas was that the autopsy was to be performed in Dallas by
the Medical Examiner (Earl Rose). He fought with the SS agents who were
trying to steal the body and the limousine and get away with it.
Finally, the Dallas CA gave the OJK to let them take it. It as necessary
for the plotters to get the body to a military hospital where they had the
ability to give orders that HAD TO be followed.

The plotters? Oh, yeah. "THEY".

Post by mainframetech
It was decided to take the body to either Walter Reed hospital or to
Bethesda, and they gave Jackie the choice, and she picked Bethesda.

It was a bad decision. They should have chosen experienced forensic
pathologists to do the job and the would have had lots to choose from in
the DC metro area.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
I don't know who made the decision to
have the autopsy at one of the military hospitals but it was a poor one.
There was no reason a slain president needed to taken there for an autopsy
when there were experienced forensic pathologists who could have done a
better job of it than anyone at Walter Reed or Bethesda. The widow's
wishes should have been ignored as they would have been for any other
widow of a homicide victim.

In a normal case it may not have mattered, but this was a conspiracy
that had to be covered up. The body may have had multiple bullets from
multiple weapons, and they need a military hospital where they could order
the pathologists to record a phony cause of death and remove any bullets.
It was shown that the final kill shot was to the forehead/temple area from
the front, so that they had to make changes in the body to make it look
more like it was a bullet from above and behind.

It's your novel. Spice it up as much as you want. You aren't constrained
by a need for evidence.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

It was a mistake not to use a Washington area coroner's office for the
autopsy. A medico-legal autopsy is a requirement in homicide cases and any
of the area's coroners would have had far more experience doing that than
either of the military hospitals.

The law in Texas was that the autopsy was to be performed in Dallas by
the Medical Examiner (Earl Rose). He fought with the SS agents who were
trying to steal the body and the limousine and get away with it.
Finally, the Dallas CA gave the OJK to let them take it. It as necessary
for the plotters to get the body to a military hospital where they had the
ability to give orders that HAD TO be followed.

The plotters? Oh, yeah. "THEY".

Don't give me that crap! You've been shown a list of my possible
suspects.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
It was decided to take the body to either Walter Reed hospital or to
Bethesda, and they gave Jackie the choice, and she picked Bethesda.

It was a bad decision. They should have chosen experienced forensic
pathologists to do the job and the would have had lots to choose from in
the DC metro area.

If you're playing the 'shoulda' game, they 'shoulda' let Earl Rose do
the autopsy in Dallas. They lost the continued custody of the body on the
trip to Washington.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
I don't know who made the decision to
have the autopsy at one of the military hospitals but it was a poor one.
There was no reason a slain president needed to taken there for an autopsy
when there were experienced forensic pathologists who could have done a
better job of it than anyone at Walter Reed or Bethesda. The widow's
wishes should have been ignored as they would have been for any other
widow of a homicide victim.

In a normal case it may not have mattered, but this was a conspiracy
that had to be covered up. The body may have had multiple bullets from
multiple weapons, and they needed a military hospital where they could order
the pathologists to record a phony cause of death and remove any bullets.
It was shown that the final kill shot was to the forehead/temple area from
the front, so that they had to make changes in the body to make it look
more like it was a bullet from above and behind.

It's your novel. Spice it up as much as you want. You aren't constrained
by a need for evidence.

Stick it. I've provided the evidence, but your memory is so faulty
you can't remember even half of what we discuss.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

It was a mistake not to use a Washington area coroner's office for the
autopsy. A medico-legal autopsy is a requirement in homicide cases and any
of the area's coroners would have had far more experience doing that than
either of the military hospitals.

The law in Texas was that the autopsy was to be performed in Dallas by
the Medical Examiner (Earl Rose). He fought with the SS agents who were
trying to steal the body and the limousine and get away with it.
Finally, the Dallas CA gave the OJK to let them take it. It as necessary
for the plotters to get the body to a military hospital where they had the
ability to give orders that HAD TO be followed.

The plotters? Oh, yeah. "THEY".

Don't give me that crap! You've been shown a list of my possible
suspects.

Oh, the possible suspects. That's a fairly large universe.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
It was decided to take the body to either Walter Reed hospital or to
Bethesda, and they gave Jackie the choice, and she picked Bethesda.

It was a bad decision. They should have chosen experienced forensic
pathologists to do the job and the would have had lots to choose from in
the DC metro area.

If you're playing the 'shoulda' game, they 'shoulda' let Earl Rose do
the autopsy in Dallas. They lost the continued custody of the body on the
trip to Washington.

No they didn't because at Wade's insistence as a condition of the body
being released was that Admiral Burkley agreed to stay with the body at
all times to maintain chain of custody.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
I don't know who made the decision to
have the autopsy at one of the military hospitals but it was a poor one.
There was no reason a slain president needed to taken there for an autopsy
when there were experienced forensic pathologists who could have done a
better job of it than anyone at Walter Reed or Bethesda. The widow's
wishes should have been ignored as they would have been for any other
widow of a homicide victim.

In a normal case it may not have mattered, but this was a conspiracy
that had to be covered up. The body may have had multiple bullets from
multiple weapons, and they needed a military hospital where they could order
the pathologists to record a phony cause of death and remove any bullets.
It was shown that the final kill shot was to the forehead/temple area from
the front, so that they had to make changes in the body to make it look
more like it was a bullet from above and behind.

It's your novel. Spice it up as much as you want. You aren't constrained
by a need for evidence.

Stick it. I've provided the evidence, but your memory is so faulty
you can't remember even half of what we discuss.

You don't even understand what evidence is.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

It was a mistake not to use a Washington area coroner's office for the
autopsy. A medico-legal autopsy is a requirement in homicide cases and any
of the area's coroners would have had far more experience doing that than
either of the military hospitals.

The law in Texas was that the autopsy was to be performed in Dallas by
the Medical Examiner (Earl Rose). He fought with the SS agents who were
trying to steal the body and the limousine and get away with it.
Finally, the Dallas CA gave the OJK to let them take it. It as necessary
for the plotters to get the body to a military hospital where they had the
ability to give orders that HAD TO be followed.

The plotters? Oh, yeah. "THEY".

Don't give me that crap! You've been shown a list of my possible
suspects.

Oh, the possible suspects. That's a fairly large universe.

Chalk up another WRONG! It's no larger than the original guess I gave
you years ago. 20 on the front side, and 30 on the back side. The
suspect list of mine is nowhere near that size.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
It was decided to take the body to either Walter Reed hospital or to
Bethesda, and they gave Jackie the choice, and she picked Bethesda.

It was a bad decision. They should have chosen experienced forensic
pathologists to do the job and the would have had lots to choose from in
the DC metro area.

If you're playing the 'shoulda' game, they 'shoulda' let Earl Rose do
the autopsy in Dallas. They lost the continued custody of the body on the
trip to Washington.

No they didn't because at Wade's insistence as a condition of the body
being released was that Admiral Burkley agreed to stay with the body at
all times to maintain chain of custody.

Oh? And how do you prove that he did that?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
I don't know who made the decision to
have the autopsy at one of the military hospitals but it was a poor one.
There was no reason a slain president needed to taken there for an autopsy
when there were experienced forensic pathologists who could have done a
better job of it than anyone at Walter Reed or Bethesda. The widow's
wishes should have been ignored as they would have been for any other
widow of a homicide victim.

In a normal case it may not have mattered, but this was a conspiracy
that had to be covered up. The body may have had multiple bullets from
multiple weapons, and they needed a military hospital where they could order
the pathologists to record a phony cause of death and remove any bullets.
It was shown that the final kill shot was to the forehead/temple area from
the front, so that they had to make changes in the body to make it look
more like it was a bullet from above and behind.

It's your novel. Spice it up as much as you want. You aren't constrained
by a need for evidence.

Stick it. I've provided the evidence, but your memory is so faulty
you can't remember even half of what we discuss.

You don't even understand what evidence is.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Well, she was the widow of a POTUS, the Commander-in-Chief, so I think she
had the right to choose a military hospital. She was in no frame of mind
to realize that Walter Reed had much more autopsy experience with death by
gunshot. She even questioned, I believe it was to Burkley, whether an
autopsy was necessary. I agree, that at least until her choice was
communicated from AF-1, the conspiracy had to have willing doctors in
place at numerous Washington area hospitals. Mark

It was a mistake not to use a Washington area coroner's office for the
autopsy. A medico-legal autopsy is a requirement in homicide cases and any
of the area's coroners would have had far more experience doing that than
either of the military hospitals.

The law in Texas was that the autopsy was to be performed in Dallas by
the Medical Examiner (Earl Rose). He fought with the SS agents who were

So what? You're talking about a state law. This was a national emergency.
Did't you see the scene from Dr. Strangelove where the soldier has to
shoot the Coke machine to get some dimes to call the WH from a pay phone
and stop WWIII?

Post by mainframetech
trying to steal the body and the limousine and get away with it.
Finally, the Dallas CA gave the OJK to let them take it. It as necessary
for the plotters to get the body to a military hospital where they had the
ability to give orders that HAD TO be followed.
It was decided to take the body to either Walter Reed hospital or to
Bethesda, and they gave Jackie the choice, and she picked Bethesda.

Post by bigdog
I don't know who made the decision to
have the autopsy at one of the military hospitals but it was a poor one.

I think it was McHugh and I think it's called National Security.
What if some civilian walks out of the room and says the word conspiracy?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
There was no reason a slain president needed to taken there for an autopsy
when there were experienced forensic pathologists who could have done a
better job of it than anyone at Walter Reed or Bethesda. The widow's
wishes should have been ignored as they would have been for any other
widow of a homicide victim.

Yes, there was. To cover up the facts. What are you trying to do, start
WWIII?

Post by mainframetech
In a normal case it may not have mattered, but this was a conspiracy
that had to be covered up. The body may have had multiple bullets from
multiple weapons, and they need a military hospital where they could order
the pathologists to record a phony cause of death and remove any bullets.
It was shown that the final kill shot was to the forehead/temple area from
the front, so that they had to make changes in the body to make it look
more like it was a bullet from above and behind.
Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

Moot point. The military would still be in charge if they had gone to
Walter Reed.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.

You have absolutely no evidence for any of this.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.

You have absolutely no evidence for any of this.

WRONG yet again! You never learn, and you know so little of this case
I'm surprised you bother to say anything. Unless you like the attention.

There is evidence that Humes and Boswell were on the loading dock
waiting for the body to arrive, that says they got a call from someone
telling them the body was coming in separately. It is documented that
Jackie was given a choice of the 2 hospitals for the autopsy.

The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane, and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.

You have absolutely no evidence for any of this.

WRONG yet again! You never learn, and you know so little of this case
I'm surprised you bother to say anything. Unless you like the attention.
There is evidence that Humes and Boswell were on the loading dock
waiting for the body to arrive, that says they got a call from someone
telling them the body was coming in separately. It is documented that
Jackie was given a choice of the 2 hospitals for the autopsy.

How is the fact that Humes and Boswell were waiting for the body to arrive
evidence the body was arriving in a different casket.

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.

You have absolutely no evidence for any of this.

WRONG yet again! You never learn, and you know so little of this case
I'm surprised you bother to say anything. Unless you like the attention.
There is evidence that Humes and Boswell were on the loading dock
waiting for the body to arrive, that says they got a call from someone
telling them the body was coming in separately. It is documented that
Jackie was given a choice of the 2 hospitals for the autopsy.

How is the fact that Humes and Boswell were waiting for the body to arrive
evidence the body was arriving in a different casket.

You didn't see me say that. So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.

You have absolutely no evidence for any of this.

WRONG yet again! You never learn, and you know so little of this case
I'm surprised you bother to say anything. Unless you like the attention.
There is evidence that Humes and Boswell were on the loading dock
waiting for the body to arrive, that says they got a call from someone
telling them the body was coming in separately. It is documented that
Jackie was given a choice of the 2 hospitals for the autopsy.

How is the fact that Humes and Boswell were waiting for the body to arrive
evidence the body was arriving in a different casket.

You didn't see me say that.

Of course you said that. Right above my statement. You said their presence
on the loading dock indicated they got a call from somebody indicating the
body was coming in separately. That means it was arriving in a different
casket than the one that was in the ambulance. You can't even keep your
own bullshit straight.

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.

You have absolutely no evidence for any of this.

WRONG yet again! You never learn, and you know so little of this case
I'm surprised you bother to say anything. Unless you like the attention.
There is evidence that Humes and Boswell were on the loading dock
waiting for the body to arrive, that says they got a call from someone
telling them the body was coming in separately. It is documented that
Jackie was given a choice of the 2 hospitals for the autopsy.

How is the fact that Humes and Boswell were waiting for the body to arrive
evidence the body was arriving in a different casket.

You didn't see me say that.

Of course you said that. Right above my statement. You said their presence
on the loading dock indicated they got a call from somebody indicating the
body was coming in separately. That means it was arriving in a different
casket than the one that was in the ambulance. You can't even keep your
own bullshit straight.

I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty. The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket. One
of the men that brought in that SHIPPING casket, went to the lobby and
happened to see the other ambulance (spoken about by Richard Lipsey) drop
off the family and they came in and went upstairs. That ambulance went
around to the back where the morgue was, and they took in the empty
casket.

All of the above was shown in statements and testimony of the men that
were there. And with Dennis David's statement, we know there was at least
a half hour between the 2 ambulance arrival and the 2 caskets. This has
all been proven to you so you can only be repeating the whole thing to
look good to anyone that is watching. As if you were the only LN in the
world!

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.

You have absolutely no evidence for any of this.

WRONG yet again! You never learn, and you know so little of this case
I'm surprised you bother to say anything. Unless you like the attention.
There is evidence that Humes and Boswell were on the loading dock
waiting for the body to arrive, that says they got a call from someone
telling them the body was coming in separately. It is documented that
Jackie was given a choice of the 2 hospitals for the autopsy.

How is the fact that Humes and Boswell were waiting for the body to arrive
evidence the body was arriving in a different casket.

You didn't see me say that.

Of course you said that. Right above my statement. You said their presence
on the loading dock indicated they got a call from somebody indicating the
body was coming in separately. That means it was arriving in a different
casket than the one that was in the ambulance. You can't even keep your
own bullshit straight.

I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

Post by mainframetech
One
of the men that brought in that SHIPPING casket, went to the lobby and
happened to see the other ambulance (spoken about by Richard Lipsey) drop
off the family and they came in and went upstairs. That ambulance went
around to the back where the morgue was, and they took in the empty
casket.

Still waiting for an explanation for how they could have unloaded a
shipping casket from AF1 with all those cameras and witnesses around and
nobody saw that happen.

Post by mainframetech
All of the above was shown in statements and testimony of the men that
were there. And with Dennis David's statement, we know there was at least
a half hour between the 2 ambulance arrival and the 2 caskets. This has
all been proven to you so you can only be repeating the whole thing to
look good to anyone that is watching. As if you were the only LN in the
world!

There might well have been a shipping casket that arrived at the morgue in
a different ambulance that night but JFK's body was in the ornamental
casket from the time it left Andrews until it was removed at the morgue.
That was the only casket removed from AF1.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.

You have absolutely no evidence for any of this.

WRONG yet again! You never learn, and you know so little of this case
I'm surprised you bother to say anything. Unless you like the attention.
There is evidence that Humes and Boswell were on the loading dock
waiting for the body to arrive, that says they got a call from someone
telling them the body was coming in separately. It is documented that
Jackie was given a choice of the 2 hospitals for the autopsy.

How is the fact that Humes and Boswell were waiting for the body to arrive
evidence the body was arriving in a different casket.

You didn't see me say that.

Of course you said that. Right above my statement. You said their presence
on the loading dock indicated they got a call from somebody indicating the
body was coming in separately. That means it was arriving in a different
casket than the one that was in the ambulance. You can't even keep your
own bullshit straight.

I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

The body in the SHIPPING casket came to the morgue at least 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket which was with the family (including Jackie) and
the various agents in a motorcade from the airport. Based on sworn
testimony and documents.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

I use the term as a 'balcony' type area that stands over the main
entrance. It would overlook the lobby that is part of the main entrance.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

I DO NOT REJECT THAT. All that was explained to you, but apparently
it was just too complicated for you to grasp. I'll try again in simple
words. There were 3 casket arrivals that night. First was the SHIPPING
casket at about 6:35pm. Then the Bronze casket at about 7:17pm. Then the
one you need to know about last, which was the bronze casket with the body
in it. When that casket was opened, the agents saw the body of JFK inside
and they may have even helped get the body onto the morgue table.

I believe the last arrival of the Bronze casket with JFK in it was so
that any of the agents that saw that could testify to that fact, and
therefore confound anything said about a SHIPPING casket with a switched
body. The proof of that is YOU and how you can't get your mind around
what really happened and remain a sucker for all these games they played.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
One
of the men that brought in that SHIPPING casket, went to the lobby and
happened to see the other ambulance (spoken about by Richard Lipsey) drop
off the family and they came in and went upstairs. That ambulance went
around to the back where the morgue was, and they took in the empty
casket.

Still waiting for an explanation for how they could have unloaded a
shipping casket from AF1 with all those cameras and witnesses around and
nobody saw that happen.

You're raking over old info which has all been discussed before.
Once the Bronze casket was down and in an ambulance and on its way, no one
would stick around to take photos of the plane. Then they bring out the
SHIPPING casket and put it in a helicopter and go to Bethesda.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
All of the above was shown in statements and testimony of the men that
were there. And with Dennis David's statement, we know there was at least
a half hour between the 2 ambulance arrival and the 2 caskets. This has
all been proven to you so you can only be repeating the whole thing to
look good to anyone that is watching. As if you were the only LN in the
world!

There might well have been a shipping casket that arrived at the morgue in
a different ambulance that night but JFK's body was in the ornamental
casket from the time it left Andrews until it was removed at the morgue.
That was the only casket removed from AF1.

Oh? You personally stuck around and waited for hours to prove to
yourself that no other casket came out of AF1? Wow! Such patience! Or
such bullshit. You don't have a clue whether another casket came out of
AF1 after the Bronze casket was sent on its way. But you'll go for any
silly business to try and save your failing case.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

The body in the SHIPPING casket came to the morgue at least 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket which was with the family (including Jackie) and
the various agents in a motorcade from the airport. Based on sworn
testimony and documents.

Complete fabrication. Even if we were to except your bogus scenario (which
I most certainly do not), your timeline doesn't show a 42 minute
difference in arrival times. A casket was logged as arriving at 6:35.
There is no other log indicating a second casket. Sibert's later
recollection was that the body was already being prepared for autopsy by
7:17. That doesn't establish what time the ornamental casket arrived since
you are claiming that casket was empty. There is no document showing a
second casket arrival at 7:17 or any other time. If a second casket
arrived, why do you suppose Sgt. Boyajian didn't log that one as well?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

I use the term as a 'balcony' type area that stands over the main
entrance. It would overlook the lobby that is part of the main entrance.

How could he observe both those events from that location?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

I DO NOT REJECT THAT. All that was explained to you, but apparently
it was just too complicated for you to grasp. I'll try again in simple
words. There were 3 casket arrivals that night. First was the SHIPPING
casket at about 6:35pm. Then the Bronze casket at about 7:17pm.

Why do you keep saying that when you know no witness or document shows a
casket arriving at 7:17. That has been pointed out to you countless times
and still you pretend not to know that. 7:17 was the time Sibert said they
began preparations for the autopsy. That was not the time of arrival of
any casket. There is no witness or document that supports a casket
arriving at 7:17.

Post by mainframetech
Then the
one you need to know about last, which was the bronze casket with the body
in it. When that casket was opened, the agents saw the body of JFK inside
and they may have even helped get the body onto the morgue table.

This tale of yours gets more ludicrous the hard you try to save it. Lifton
and Horne only have two caskets arriving. To try to cover the fallacies
that have been exposed in that bizarre tale, you have invented an even
more bizarre tale of JFK's body being put back into the original
ornamental casket and then shipped out and then returned to the loading
dock. You have dreamed this part up entirely out of thin air. You can't
even blame Lifton or Horne for this. There are absolutely no witnesses or
documents that even suggest such a thing happened. You decided the only
way your beliefs could be valid is if this had happened so in your mind it
must have happened.

Post by mainframetech
I believe the last arrival of the Bronze casket with JFK in it was so
that any of the agents that saw that could testify to that fact, and
therefore confound anything said about a SHIPPING casket with a switched
body. The proof of that is YOU and how you can't get your mind around
what really happened and remain a sucker for all these games they played.

If Sibert and O'Neill were willing to go along with the cover up, why
would they even bother with all these shenanigans? It does not surprise me
that you consider my skepticism as the proof that validates this idiotic
tale you have concocted. It is further indication that you have absolutely
no concept of what the word proof really means.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
One
of the men that brought in that SHIPPING casket, went to the lobby and
happened to see the other ambulance (spoken about by Richard Lipsey) drop
off the family and they came in and went upstairs. That ambulance went
around to the back where the morgue was, and they took in the empty
casket.

Still waiting for an explanation for how they could have unloaded a
shipping casket from AF1 with all those cameras and witnesses around and
nobody saw that happen.

You're raking over old info which has all been discussed before.
Once the Bronze casket was down and in an ambulance and on its way, no one
would stick around to take photos of the plane. Then they bring out the
SHIPPING casket and put it in a helicopter and go to Bethesda.

After the ambulance departed, LBJ stopped to give a speech to a nationwide
audience. He then went over to speak with congressional leaders. It was
only then that he left by helicopter. That is the point where others would
begin to depart. By the time everyone left considerably more time would
have elapsed. A conservative estimate for that to happen, even if everyone
did leave right away, is 15 minutes. Only then could the unload the
shipping casket without any witnesses or cameras being present. Let's give
you the benefit of the doubt and say it would only take 5 minutes to
unload your shipping casket from the plane on onto the helicopter. That
means the ambulance already had a 20 minute head start on the helicopter.
It's only a 40 minute drive to Bethesda and that is if you do it without a
police escort and have to make traffic stops. They would need even less
time with a police escort but we'll stick with the 40 minute time frame to
further give you the benefit of the doubt. That means when the helicopter
left Andrews, the ambulance would be at least half way to Bethesda with
just 20 minutes more needed to get there. If it took just ten minutes for
the helicopter to fly to Bethesda, the earliest the helicopter could have
arrived ahead of the ambulance was TEN MINUTES. Now if you don't agree
with any of the estimates I have made, feel free to plug in your own
numbers and show us how you can make this work. Of course we both know you
can't make it work and I'm betting you won't even try.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
All of the above was shown in statements and testimony of the men that
were there. And with Dennis David's statement, we know there was at least
a half hour between the 2 ambulance arrival and the 2 caskets. This has
all been proven to you so you can only be repeating the whole thing to
look good to anyone that is watching. As if you were the only LN in the
world!

There might well have been a shipping casket that arrived at the morgue in
a different ambulance that night but JFK's body was in the ornamental
casket from the time it left Andrews until it was removed at the morgue.
That was the only casket removed from AF1.

Oh? You personally stuck around and waited for hours to prove to
yourself that no other casket came out of AF1?

So once again you concoct a crazy theory and challenge me to disprove it
instead of accepting the responsibility of proving your own hypothesis.
Earlier in this post I have shown how it would be logistically impossible
to get the shipping casket to Bethesda 42 minutes ahead of the ambulance.
It's only a 40 minute drive tops and the ambulance would have had a
considerable head start.

Post by mainframetech
Wow! Such patience! Or
such bullshit. You don't have a clue whether another casket came out of
AF1 after the Bronze casket was sent on its way. But you'll go for any
silly business to try and save your failing case.

I have no evidence another casket came off of AF1 and neither do you. I am
aware of the logistical problems in trying to sneak a shipping casket
aboard AF1 at Love Field, switching the body from one casket to another
while JFK's closest aides were present, hiding the second casket on the
cramped quarters of AF1, and then sneaking the casket off of AF1 at
Andrews when there were numerous witnesses and cameras present for a
considerable time after the ambulance with the ornamental casket had
departed. That should be enough to convince any reasonable person this
tall tale could not be true but apparently that doesn't work for you.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

The body in the SHIPPING casket came to the morgue at least 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket which was with the family (including Jackie) and
the various agents in a motorcade from the airport. Based on sworn
testimony and documents.

Complete fabrication. Even if we were to except your bogus scenario (which
I most certainly do not), your timeline doesn't show a 42 minute
difference in arrival times.

So then you're calling me a liar! fabrications are lies! You're
saying that the sworn testimony and the documents that I've shown are
lies. But of course, you have proof that the documents are false and that
everything I've said above was a lie. Tell me how you know that? Your
opinion as usual?

Post by bigdog
A casket was logged as arriving at 6:35.
There is no other log indicating a second casket.

WRONG! Your favorite witness Richard Lipsey said clearly that there
would be a casket with the BODY in it that would arrive at the back door
(morgue). I showed you the interview of Dennis David and the after action
report of Sgt. Boyajian and you're going to call them liars too? The old
LN whine...they all lied! You have to be fried if you think all the sworn
testimony and documents are wrong! Paranoia to the max! David identified
the casket and a SHIPPING casket. Edward Reed helped bring in the
SHIPPING casket and saw that it was JFK inside when it was opened.
Everything fits, and you sit there and pretend that they all lied and the
documents are phony, etc.

Then you've also seen the testimony of Dennis David when a half hour
later he saw the second ambulance at the main entrance letting off the
family to go upstairs on the elevator. Not once have you been able to
shake the eyewitness accounts of these people, yet you blat out you
opinion that opposes everything with no proof at all! Talk about denial!

Post by bigdog
Sibert's later
recollection was that the body was already being prepared for autopsy by
7:17.

WRONG! The process BEGAN at 7:17pm he said. But then why was the
first cut recorded by the FBI as 8:15pm? Is your witness any good? That
leaves an hour with everyone just sitting around. They must have been
waiting for the high level officers and 'guests' to arrive.

Post by bigdog
That doesn't establish what time the ornamental casket arrived since
you are claiming that casket was empty. There is no document showing a
second casket arrival at 7:17 or any other time. If a second casket
arrived, why do you suppose Sgt. Boyajian didn't log that one as well?

Apparently Boyajian wasn't part of the second or third process.
Here's mention of the times once again:

"In this author's opinion, the information provided above is proof beyond
a reasonable doubt that President Kennedy's body arrived at the Bethesda
morgue at shortly after 6:30 PM in a shipping casket. The ornamental
casket, in which the body had been placed in Dallas, arrived at Bethesda
Naval Hospital at 6:55 PM, and was carried into the morgue twice.
Initially this occurred at approximately 7:17 PM with the casket carried
by FBI Special Agents James Sibert and Francis O'Neill and Secret Service
agents into the anteroom, and it occurred again at 8:00 PM with the casket
carried by the honor guard into the morgue."

From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/


At the above link you can find the names of all the servicemen that
were part of the casket situation, for each of the 3 'arrivals'.

Hopefully, this will be remembered by you so that this is not necessary
to go through again.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

I use the term as a 'balcony' type area that stands over the main
entrance. It would overlook the lobby that is part of the main entrance.

How could he observe both those events from that location?

Now what are you talking about? Don't you know what a balcony is?
That it can overhang a lobby which has a main entrance to a hospital?
None of this is new.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

I DO NOT REJECT THAT. All that was explained to you, but apparently
it was just too complicated for you to grasp. I'll try again in simple
words. There were 3 casket arrivals that night. First was the SHIPPING
casket at about 6:35pm. Then the Bronze casket at about 7:17pm.

Why do you keep saying that when you know no witness or document shows a
casket arriving at 7:17. That has been pointed out to you countless times
and still you pretend not to know that. 7:17 was the time Sibert said they
began preparations for the autopsy. That was not the time of arrival of
any casket. There is no witness or document that supports a casket
arriving at 7:17.

See above. I've showed you that info before but your crazed mind was
unable to contain the info.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Then the
one you need to know about last, which was the bronze casket with the body
in it. When that casket was opened, the agents saw the body of JFK inside
and they may have even helped get the body onto the morgue table.

This tale of yours gets more ludicrous the hard you try to save it. Lifton
and Horne only have two caskets arriving.

Correct for a change! There were 2 casket. The SHIPPING casket and the
Bronze casket. But the Bronze casket arrived twice. And the tale is not
mine. Here's where you can read up on the whole process:

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

Post by bigdog
To try to cover the fallacies
that have been exposed in that bizarre tale, you have invented an even
more bizarre tale of JFK's body being put back into the original
ornamental casket and then shipped out and then returned to the loading
dock. You have dreamed this part up entirely out of thin air.

You're calling me a liar again. I don't appreciate that, since I've
showed you prove positive of all that I've said. You have not been able
to oppose one bit of the info I've given you, but you refuse to stop using
only your silly little opinion in opposition!

Post by bigdog
You can't
even blame Lifton or Horne for this. There are absolutely no witnesses or
documents that even suggest such a thing happened. You decided the only
way your beliefs could be valid is if this had happened so in your mind it
must have happened.

You have to be the least capable arguer around! You think no one
recorded this train of events, but you didn't bother to look around much,
did you? Well, here's a version of it plain and simple:

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

Time to start eating your words.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I believe the last arrival of the Bronze casket with JFK in it was so
that any of the agents that saw that could testify to that fact, and
therefore confound anything said about a SHIPPING casket with a switched
body. The proof of that is YOU and how you can't get your mind around
what really happened and remain a sucker for all these games they played.

If Sibert and O'Neill were willing to go along with the cover up, why
would they even bother with all these shenanigans? It does not surprise me
that you consider my skepticism as the proof that validates this idiotic
tale you have concocted. It is further indication that you have absolutely
no concept of what the word proof really means.

You have no skepticism as far as I can see. Just a tightly wound WCR
opinion, that can't deal with evidence. As to knowing what proof is,
you've ignored or dismissed all kinds of statements, sworn testimony and
documents to try and hold on to your foolish WCR story that was lost many
years ago. It may be saving your sanity, so that you don't dare let it
go.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
One
of the men that brought in that SHIPPING casket, went to the lobby and
happened to see the other ambulance (spoken about by Richard Lipsey) drop
off the family and they came in and went upstairs. That ambulance went
around to the back where the morgue was, and they took in the empty
casket.

Still waiting for an explanation for how they could have unloaded a
shipping casket from AF1 with all those cameras and witnesses around and
nobody saw that happen.

You're raking over old info which has all been discussed before.
Once the Bronze casket was down and in an ambulance and on its way, no one
would stick around to take photos of the plane. Then they bring out the
SHIPPING casket and put it in a helicopter and go to Bethesda.

After the ambulance departed, LBJ stopped to give a speech to a nationwide
audience. He then went over to speak with congressional leaders. It was
only then that he left by helicopter. That is the point where others would
begin to depart. By the time everyone left considerably more time would
have elapsed. A conservative estimate for that to happen, even if everyone
did leave right away, is 15 minutes. Only then could the unload the
shipping casket without any witnesses or cameras being present. Let's give
you the benefit of the doubt and say it would only take 5 minutes to
unload your shipping casket from the plane on onto the helicopter. That
means the ambulance already had a 20 minute head start on the helicopter.

If you believe that LBJ was making speeches, were people paying
attention to him? Was a shipping casket that looked like a service module
for the galley being taken off while everyone was looking at LBJ at this
key moment in history? Where did he make his speech? Right in front of
the AF1 plane? Or did he walk to another area?

Post by bigdog
It's only a 40 minute drive to Bethesda and that is if you do it without a
police escort and have to make traffic stops. They would need even less
time with a police escort but we'll stick with the 40 minute time frame to
further give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm sure you would love to stick with the 40 minute time, but there are
comments among the witnesses that they took their time and went in a more
leisurely manner as befit a dead president.

Post by bigdog
That means when the helicopter
left Andrews, the ambulance would be at least half way to Bethesda with
just 20 minutes more needed to get there. If it took just ten minutes for
the helicopter to fly to Bethesda, the earliest the helicopter could have
arrived ahead of the ambulance was TEN MINUTES.

As usual you forget half the problem. The 'decoy' casket arrived at
the main entrance first to offload the family, THEN it went around the
back to the morgue loading dock. All this talk and you seem to ignore
that Dennis David saw the SHIPPING casket arrive and helped to bring it
into the morgue, then a half hour later he saw the OTHER ambulance at the
main entrance, just as Lipsey predicted, offloading the family.

Post by bigdog
Now if you don't agree
with any of the estimates I have made, feel free to plug in your own
numbers and show us how you can make this work. Of course we both know you
can't make it work and I'm betting you won't even try.

I've done that already, and I've also given you a link to an article
explaining the whole process, including times. Here it is again:

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
All of the above was shown in statements and testimony of the men that
were there. And with Dennis David's statement, we know there was at least
a half hour between the 2 ambulance arrival and the 2 caskets. This has
all been proven to you so you can only be repeating the whole thing to
look good to anyone that is watching. As if you were the only LN in the
world!

There might well have been a shipping casket that arrived at the morgue in
a different ambulance that night but JFK's body was in the ornamental
casket from the time it left Andrews until it was removed at the morgue.
That was the only casket removed from AF1.

Oh? You personally stuck around and waited for hours to prove to
yourself that no other casket came out of AF1?

So once again you concoct a crazy theory and challenge me to disprove it
instead of accepting the responsibility of proving your own hypothesis.

DON'T GIVE ME THAT CRAP!

Post by bigdog
Earlier in this post I have shown how it would be logistically impossible
to get the shipping casket to Bethesda 42 minutes ahead of the ambulance.
It's only a 40 minute drive tops and the ambulance would have had a
considerable head start.

Post by mainframetech
Wow! Such patience! Or
such bullshit. You don't have a clue whether another casket came out of
AF1 after the Bronze casket was sent on its way. But you'll go for any
silly business to try and save your failing case.

I have no evidence another casket came off of AF1 and neither do you. I am
aware of the logistical problems in trying to sneak a shipping casket
aboard AF1 at Love Field, switching the body from one casket to another
while JFK's closest aides were present, hiding the second casket on the
cramped quarters of AF1, and then sneaking the casket off of AF1 at
Andrews when there were numerous witnesses and cameras present for a
considerable time after the ambulance with the ornamental casket had
departed. That should be enough to convince any reasonable person this
tall tale could not be true but apparently that doesn't work for you.

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

The body in the SHIPPING casket came to the morgue at least 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket which was with the family (including Jackie) and
the various agents in a motorcade from the airport. Based on sworn
testimony and documents.

Complete fabrication. Even if we were to except your bogus scenario (which
I most certainly do not), your timeline doesn't show a 42 minute
difference in arrival times.

So then you're calling me a liar! fabrications are lies! You're
saying that the sworn testimony and the documents that I've shown are
lies. But of course, you have proof that the documents are false and that
everything I've said above was a lie. Tell me how you know that? Your
opinion as usual?

Other than Boyajian's after action report which specified a casket
arriving at 6:35, what document shows any other casket arriving at the
loading dock.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
A casket was logged as arriving at 6:35.
There is no other log indicating a second casket.

WRONG! Your favorite witness Richard Lipsey said clearly that there
would be a casket with the BODY in it that would arrive at the back door
(morgue). I showed you the interview of Dennis David and the after action
report of Sgt. Boyajian and you're going to call them liars too? The old
LN whine...they all lied! You have to be fried if you think all the sworn
testimony and documents are wrong! Paranoia to the max! David identified
the casket and a SHIPPING casket. Edward Reed helped bring in the
SHIPPING casket and saw that it was JFK inside when it was opened.
Everything fits, and you sit there and pretend that they all lied and the
documents are phony, etc.

No, I'm trying to get you to cite a document that there was a second
casket arrival.

Post by mainframetech
Then you've also seen the testimony of Dennis David when a half hour
later he saw the second ambulance at the main entrance letting off the
family to go upstairs on the elevator. Not once have you been able to
shake the eyewitness accounts of these people, yet you blat out you
opinion that opposes everything with no proof at all! Talk about denial!

The eyewitness accounts are contradictory. I go with the witnesses whose
accounts fit with other known facts.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Sibert's later
recollection was that the body was already being prepared for autopsy by
7:17.

WRONG! The process BEGAN at 7:17pm he said. But then why was the
first cut recorded by the FBI as 8:15pm? Is your witness any good? That
leaves an hour with everyone just sitting around. They must have been
waiting for the high level officers and 'guests' to arrive.

You should be asking yourself these questions. You are the one trying to
use Sibert to establish a second casket arriving at 7:17 which is
ludicrous because he didn't say a casket was delivered at 7:17. Nobody
said that and no document said that, yet you treat it as an established
fact that a second casket arrived at 7:17. Sibert was the only one who
mentioned 7:17 and he didn't use that to specify the time of arrival. It
is a complete factoid that there was a casket which arrived at 7:17, aka a
fabrication.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
That doesn't establish what time the ornamental casket arrived since
you are claiming that casket was empty. There is no document showing a
second casket arrival at 7:17 or any other time. If a second casket
arrived, why do you suppose Sgt. Boyajian didn't log that one as well?

Apparently Boyajian wasn't part of the second or third process.
"In this author's opinion, the information provided above is proof beyond
a reasonable doubt that President Kennedy's body arrived at the Bethesda
morgue at shortly after 6:30 PM in a shipping casket. The ornamental
casket, in which the body had been placed in Dallas, arrived at Bethesda
Naval Hospital at 6:55 PM, and was carried into the morgue twice.
Initially this occurred at approximately 7:17 PM with the casket carried
by FBI Special Agents James Sibert and Francis O'Neill and Secret Service
agents into the anteroom, and it occurred again at 8:00 PM with the casket
carried by the honor guard into the morgue."
From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So if you are not using Boyajian's report to establish a second casket
arrival at 7:17, what is your source for a second casket arriving AT THAT
TIME?

Post by mainframetech
At the above link you can find the names of all the servicemen that
were part of the casket situation, for each of the 3 'arrivals'.
Hopefully, this will be remembered by you so that this is not necessary
to go through again.

According to your above link, the Navy ambulance arrived at Bethesda at
about 6:55, not 7:17 as you keep insisting. Do you even bother to read the
articles you provide links to? You have no source for a casket arriving at
7:17 so why do you keep claiming that happened? Why do you object when I
call that a fabrication?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

I use the term as a 'balcony' type area that stands over the main
entrance. It would overlook the lobby that is part of the main entrance.

How could he observe both those events from that location?

Now what are you talking about? Don't you know what a balcony is?
That it can overhang a lobby which has a main entrance to a hospital?
None of this is new.

You are citing David as seeing the ambulance stop at the front entrance
and also seeing the ambulance drive up to the loading dock. I'm wondering
where he could have been that would have allowed him to see both events.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

I DO NOT REJECT THAT. All that was explained to you, but apparently
it was just too complicated for you to grasp. I'll try again in simple
words. There were 3 casket arrivals that night. First was the SHIPPING
casket at about 6:35pm. Then the Bronze casket at about 7:17pm.

Why do you keep saying that when you know no witness or document shows a
casket arriving at 7:17. That has been pointed out to you countless times
and still you pretend not to know that. 7:17 was the time Sibert said they
began preparations for the autopsy. That was not the time of arrival of
any casket. There is no witness or document that supports a casket
arriving at 7:17.

See above. I've showed you that info before but your crazed mind was
unable to contain the info.

You have NEVER cited a document or a witness who said a casket arrived at
7:17 yet you continue to insist that happened. No such document or witness
exists and we both know it.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Then the
one you need to know about last, which was the bronze casket with the body
in it. When that casket was opened, the agents saw the body of JFK inside
and they may have even helped get the body onto the morgue table.

This tale of yours gets more ludicrous the hard you try to save it. Lifton
and Horne only have two caskets arriving.

Correct for a change! There were 2 casket. The SHIPPING casket and the
Bronze casket. But the Bronze casket arrived twice. And the tale is not
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So we have Boyajian's estimate of a casket arriving at 6:35, David saying
it arrived about 6:45 and Reed saying it had already arrived when he got
there at 6:30. So should we believe that these were three different casket
arrivals or that these three men simply gave varying estimates of the time
of the same casket arrival.

Now we get to your real source for a 7:17 arrival. It doesn't come from
any witness nor from any document. He comes from the author of the article
you have cited. He admitted as much when he wrote, This author estimates
that Sibert and O'Neill, along with Greer and the ambulance, arrived at
the morgue entrance just prior to 7:17 PM. Sibert told the ARRB that he
and O'Neill assisted Greer and Kellerman in taking the ornamental bronze
casket into the anteroom of the morgue at about 7:17 PM [15, p. 45; p.
50]. In their interview with Specter, both agents said that "preparations
for the autopsy" occurred at approximately 7:17 PM [12, p. 2]. "

So there we have it. No witness said 7:17. No document said 7:17. Just
some kook author whom you have placed blind faith in. The silliness stems
from believing that differences in the estimated time of arrival of a
casket indicates there were multiple casket arrivals rather than simply
that the men making the estimates differed in their estimates.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
To try to cover the fallacies
that have been exposed in that bizarre tale, you have invented an even
more bizarre tale of JFK's body being put back into the original
ornamental casket and then shipped out and then returned to the loading
dock. You have dreamed this part up entirely out of thin air.

You're calling me a liar again. I don't appreciate that, since I've
showed you prove positive of all that I've said. You have not been able
to oppose one bit of the info I've given you, but you refuse to stop using
only your silly little opinion in opposition!

You've showed me your silly way of figuring and cited an author whose
figuring is just as silly as yours.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
You can't
even blame Lifton or Horne for this. There are absolutely no witnesses or
documents that even suggest such a thing happened. You decided the only
way your beliefs could be valid is if this had happened so in your mind it
must have happened.

You have to be the least capable arguer around! You think no one
recorded this train of events, but you didn't bother to look around much,
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/
Time to start eating your words.

Evidently no one actually recorded the time of arrival of the casket since
they all estimated it. Nowhere was the arrival timestamped. But being a
silly conspiracy hobbyist, you've decided that each of these estimated
arrival times indicates a separate casket.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I believe the last arrival of the Bronze casket with JFK in it was so
that any of the agents that saw that could testify to that fact, and
therefore confound anything said about a SHIPPING casket with a switched
body. The proof of that is YOU and how you can't get your mind around
what really happened and remain a sucker for all these games they played.

If Sibert and O'Neill were willing to go along with the cover up, why
would they even bother with all these shenanigans? It does not surprise me
that you consider my skepticism as the proof that validates this idiotic
tale you have concocted. It is further indication that you have absolutely
no concept of what the word proof really means.

You have no skepticism as far as I can see. Just a tightly wound WCR
opinion, that can't deal with evidence.

Everything you believe runs counter to the evidence.

Post by mainframetech
As to knowing what proof is,
you've ignored or dismissed all kinds of statements, sworn testimony and
documents to try and hold on to your foolish WCR story that was lost many
years ago. It may be saving your sanity, so that you don't dare let it
go.

You've provided no proof that there were multiple casket arrivals, only
varying estimates of the arrival time of the same casket.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
One
of the men that brought in that SHIPPING casket, went to the lobby and
happened to see the other ambulance (spoken about by Richard Lipsey) drop
off the family and they came in and went upstairs. That ambulance went
around to the back where the morgue was, and they took in the empty
casket.

Still waiting for an explanation for how they could have unloaded a
shipping casket from AF1 with all those cameras and witnesses around and
nobody saw that happen.

You're raking over old info which has all been discussed before.
Once the Bronze casket was down and in an ambulance and on its way, no one
would stick around to take photos of the plane. Then they bring out the
SHIPPING casket and put it in a helicopter and go to Bethesda.

After the ambulance departed, LBJ stopped to give a speech to a nationwide
audience. He then went over to speak with congressional leaders. It was
only then that he left by helicopter. That is the point where others would
begin to depart. By the time everyone left considerably more time would
have elapsed. A conservative estimate for that to happen, even if everyone
did leave right away, is 15 minutes. Only then could the unload the
shipping casket without any witnesses or cameras being present. Let's give
you the benefit of the doubt and say it would only take 5 minutes to
unload your shipping casket from the plane on onto the helicopter. That
means the ambulance already had a 20 minute head start on the helicopter.

If you believe that LBJ was making speeches, were people paying
attention to him? Was a shipping casket that looked like a service module
for the galley being taken off while everyone was looking at LBJ at this
key moment in history? Where did he make his speech? Right in front of
the AF1 plane? Or did he walk to another area?

You should have no trouble going to YouTube and seeing videos that would
answer all these questions for you. You will see that LBJ gave his speech
very close to AF1. You will see there would have been no opportunity to
sneak a casket off while he was making his speech. You will see him stop
to chat with congressional leaders before he got on the helicopter. You
will see that the ambulance would have been well on its way to Bethesda
prior to the crowd at Andrews dispersing following LBJ' departure. Sorry,
your turkey just won't fly.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
It's only a 40 minute drive to Bethesda and that is if you do it without a
police escort and have to make traffic stops. They would need even less
time with a police escort but we'll stick with the 40 minute time frame to
further give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm sure you would love to stick with the 40 minute time, but there are
comments among the witnesses that they took their time and went in a more
leisurely manner as befit a dead president.

Cite???

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
That means when the helicopter
left Andrews, the ambulance would be at least half way to Bethesda with
just 20 minutes more needed to get there. If it took just ten minutes for
the helicopter to fly to Bethesda, the earliest the helicopter could have
arrived ahead of the ambulance was TEN MINUTES.

As usual you forget half the problem. The 'decoy' casket arrived at
the main entrance first to offload the family, THEN it went around the
back to the morgue loading dock. All this talk and you seem to ignore
that Dennis David saw the SHIPPING casket arrive and helped to bring it
into the morgue, then a half hour later he saw the OTHER ambulance at the
main entrance, just as Lipsey predicted, offloading the family.

That doesn't solve your timing issue.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Now if you don't agree
with any of the estimates I have made, feel free to plug in your own
numbers and show us how you can make this work. Of course we both know you
can't make it work and I'm betting you won't even try.

I've done that already, and I've also given you a link to an article
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

No you haven't. All you've done is keep posting the same link to some
bozo's website. He doesn't deal with these timing issues either.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
All of the above was shown in statements and testimony of the men that
were there. And with Dennis David's statement, we know there was at least
a half hour between the 2 ambulance arrival and the 2 caskets. This has
all been proven to you so you can only be repeating the whole thing to
look good to anyone that is watching. As if you were the only LN in the
world!

There might well have been a shipping casket that arrived at the morgue in
a different ambulance that night but JFK's body was in the ornamental
casket from the time it left Andrews until it was removed at the morgue.
That was the only casket removed from AF1.

Oh? You personally stuck around and waited for hours to prove to
yourself that no other casket came out of AF1?

So once again you concoct a crazy theory and challenge me to disprove it
instead of accepting the responsibility of proving your own hypothesis.

DON'T GIVE ME THAT CRAP!

I just did and will continue to do so every time you try to shift the
burden to me of disproving hypothesis that you are unable to support.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Earlier in this post I have shown how it would be logistically impossible
to get the shipping casket to Bethesda 42 minutes ahead of the ambulance.
It's only a 40 minute drive tops and the ambulance would have had a
considerable head start.

No apparent answer to this problem.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Wow! Such patience! Or
such bullshit. You don't have a clue whether another casket came out of
AF1 after the Bronze casket was sent on its way. But you'll go for any
silly business to try and save your failing case.

I have no evidence another casket came off of AF1 and neither do you. I am
aware of the logistical problems in trying to sneak a shipping casket
aboard AF1 at Love Field, switching the body from one casket to another
while JFK's closest aides were present, hiding the second casket on the
cramped quarters of AF1, and then sneaking the casket off of AF1 at
Andrews when there were numerous witnesses and cameras present for a
considerable time after the ambulance with the ornamental casket had
departed. That should be enough to convince any reasonable person this
tall tale could not be true but apparently that doesn't work for you.

Apparently these arguments have stumped you since you have no counter
argument to them.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

The body in the SHIPPING casket came to the morgue at least 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket which was with the family (including Jackie) and
the various agents in a motorcade from the airport. Based on sworn
testimony and documents.

Complete fabrication. Even if we were to except your bogus scenario (which
I most certainly do not), your timeline doesn't show a 42 minute
difference in arrival times.

So then you're calling me a liar! fabrications are lies! You're
saying that the sworn testimony and the documents that I've shown are
lies. But of course, you have proof that the documents are false and that
everything I've said above was a lie. Tell me how you know that? Your
opinion as usual?

Other than Boyajian's after action report which specified a casket
arriving at 6:35, what document shows any other casket arriving at the
loading dock.

When I said "document" I meant the Boyajian after action report.
However, we could also include the report by the Gawler's crew which
states as follows:

"Body removed from metal shipping casket at USNH at Beth."

From: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/21048-edwin-stroble-prepared-john-f-kennedy-for-funeral/

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
A casket was logged as arriving at 6:35.
There is no other log indicating a second casket.

WRONG! The log from Gawler's which I linked to just above mentions
another casket called a "Marcellus 710" which they brought with them, and
of course, the SHIPPING casket which they saw the body come out of. You
don't seem to be familiar with these things. How's the old memory?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
WRONG! Your favorite witness Richard Lipsey said clearly that there
would be a casket with the BODY in it that would arrive at the back door
(morgue). I showed you the interview of Dennis David and the after action
report of Sgt. Boyajian and you're going to call them liars too? The old
LN whine...they all lied! You have to be fried if you think all the sworn
testimony and documents are wrong! Paranoia to the max! David identified
the casket and a SHIPPING casket. Edward Reed helped bring in the
SHIPPING casket and saw that it was JFK inside when it was opened.
Everything fits, and you sit there and pretend that they all lied and the
documents are phony, etc.

No, I'm trying to get you to cite a document that there was a second
casket arrival.

I've just done that above. And why there would be a "document" that
said that I don't know. Probably you clinging to a dying hope.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Then you've also seen the testimony of Dennis David when a half hour
later he saw the second ambulance at the main entrance letting off the
family to go upstairs on the elevator. Not once have you been able to
shake the eyewitness accounts of these people, yet you blat out you
opinion that opposes everything with no proof at all! Talk about denial!

The eyewitness accounts are contradictory. I go with the witnesses whose
accounts fit with other known facts.

There are no "contradictions" if you understand what happened.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Sibert's later
recollection was that the body was already being prepared for autopsy by
7:17.

WRONG! The process BEGAN at 7:17pm he said. But then why was the
first cut recorded by the FBI as 8:15pm? Is your witness any good? That
leaves an hour with everyone just sitting around. They must have been
waiting for the high level officers and 'guests' to arrive.

You should be asking yourself these questions. You are the one trying to
use Sibert to establish a second casket arriving at 7:17 which is
ludicrous because he didn't say a casket was delivered at 7:17.

This has all been discussed thoroughly, but you will pretend you forgot
it all. Here's some info:

"The motorcade arrived at the front of the NNMC at 6:55 PM [4, p. 478].
Hence, that is when Sibert and O’Neill arrived. Their report
states that, after Mrs. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy had alighted and
entered the building, the ambulance (carrying the Dallas casket)
“was thereafter driven to the rear entrance...” The word
“thereafter” is a catch-all, concealing a significant
delay before the navy ambulance moved to the rear [4, p. 478].

After the delay, Sibert and O’Neill either drove or walked [2, p.
43] to the loading dock adjacent to the morgue complex and arrived there
presumably at 7:17 PM, the time they gave to Arlen Specter for when
“preparation of the autopsy” began [8, p. 2]. This begs
the question of what happened between 7:17 and 8:15 PM, the time they gave
for when the "first incision was made." Nothing in their report directly
answers this question, and, we believe, for good reason, i.e. they needed
to conceal the fact that they failed in their primary duty: they lost
vigil of the president’s body/casket for a considerable period of
time."

From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/JWS-FXO/

Post by bigdog
Nobody
said that and no document said that, yet you treat it as an established
fact that a second casket arrived at 7:17. Sibert was the only one who
mentioned 7:17 and he didn't use that to specify the time of arrival. It
is a complete factoid that there was a casket which arrived at 7:17, aka a
fabrication.

The fabrication is yours, since you refuse to put all the facts
together and prove to yourself that there was a second casket. Now here's
yet another document showing that there was a second and a third casket:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20138-photo-or-layout-of-bethesda-autopsy-room/

Note that the drawing shows the movement of the SHIPPING casket coming
in from the loading dock to the right by the table #1. Next you see the
movement of the body from table #1 to table #2 for embalming. Next, you
se the cooler room where Sibert said he put the Bronze casket. Later
Custer put in the heavy dark marker casket, which was the Marcellus 710
that the Gawler's people brought. This is yet another proof that there
were 3 caskets, which included the SHIPPING casket and the Bronze casket.

But it won't matter how much proof I show, and I've shown a lot. You
will bow to your faith in the WCR and disbelieve all evidence except the
WCR.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
That doesn't establish what time the ornamental casket arrived since
you are claiming that casket was empty. There is no document showing a
second casket arrival at 7:17 or any other time. If a second casket
arrived, why do you suppose Sgt. Boyajian didn't log that one as well?

Apparently Boyajian wasn't part of the second or third process.
"In this author's opinion, the information provided above is proof beyond
a reasonable doubt that President Kennedy's body arrived at the Bethesda
morgue at shortly after 6:30 PM in a shipping casket. The ornamental
casket, in which the body had been placed in Dallas, arrived at Bethesda
Naval Hospital at 6:55 PM, and was carried into the morgue twice.
Initially this occurred at approximately 7:17 PM with the casket carried
by FBI Special Agents James Sibert and Francis O'Neill and Secret Service
agents into the anteroom, and it occurred again at 8:00 PM with the casket
carried by the honor guard into the morgue."
From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So if you are not using Boyajian's report to establish a second casket
arrival at 7:17, what is your source for a second casket arriving AT THAT
TIME?

You can read. See above. James Sibert's various comments as to time
will suffice. He stated he brought in the Bronze casket and placed in in
the cooler room, exactly as the drawing shows. We've been over this a
number of times, why are you forcing us to repeat it all over again?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
At the above link you can find the names of all the servicemen that
were part of the casket situation, for each of the 3 'arrivals'.
Hopefully, this will be remembered by you so that this is not necessary
to go through again.

According to your above link, the Navy ambulance arrived at Bethesda at
about 6:55, not 7:17 as you keep insisting.

WRONG as usual! What is wrong with you? It should be clear to you by
now that the arrival of 6:55pm was for the ambulance (with the empty
casket) to arrive at the main entrance of the Bethesda hospital. They
then let off the family who then went up in the elevator to the 17th floor
to the VIP suite. They then drove around to the back of the building
where the loading dock for the morgue was located. By then it was 7:17pm.
They brought in the Bronze casket and had to put it in the cooler room
because the SHIPPING casket was in the morgue next to table #1 and the
Gawler's casket was there on the floor, so there was no room for the
Bronze casket that came from Parkland.

Post by bigdog
Do you even bother to read the
articles you provide links to? You have no source for a casket arriving at
7:17 so why do you keep claiming that happened? Why do you object when I
call that a fabrication?

I don't like being called a liar when it's not true. I have given you
all the information needed to KNOW that the Bronze casket arrived at the
morgue at about 7:17pm and 42 minutes later than the SHIPPING casket with
the body in it. Your inability to use simple understanding is very
irritating. This is all old news that you failed to understand the first
few times we went through it. I'm getting to the point that you just
don't have the capacity to take on this information, since your minds
which is besotted by the WCR must be rejecting anything other than the
WCR.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

I use the term as a 'balcony' type area that stands over the main
entrance. It would overlook the lobby that is part of the main entrance.

How could he observe both those events from that location?

Now what are you talking about? Don't you know what a balcony is?
That it can overhang a lobby which has a main entrance to a hospital?
None of this is new.

You are citing David as seeing the ambulance stop at the front entrance
and also seeing the ambulance drive up to the loading dock. I'm wondering
where he could have been that would have allowed him to see both events.

Lordee! You just refuse to face the fact that the 2 arrivals were
many minutes apart. Dennis David was able to se both arrivals because he
was in charge of the detail that brought in the SHIPPING casket and then
he went to a location where he could see the main entrance and he then saw
the Bronze casket ambulance arrive at the main entrance. Simple.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

I DO NOT REJECT THAT. All that was explained to you, but apparently
it was just too complicated for you to grasp. I'll try again in simple
words. There were 3 casket arrivals that night. First was the SHIPPING
casket at about 6:35pm. Then the Bronze casket at about 7:17pm.

Why do you keep saying that when you know no witness or document shows a
casket arriving at 7:17. That has been pointed out to you countless times
and still you pretend not to know that. 7:17 was the time Sibert said they
began preparations for the autopsy. That was not the time of arrival of
any casket. There is no witness or document that supports a casket
arriving at 7:17.

See above. I've showed you that info before but your crazed mind was
unable to contain the info.

You have NEVER cited a document or a witness who said a casket arrived at
7:17 yet you continue to insist that happened. No such document or witness
exists and we both know it.

Bull! Sibert was that witness. He didn't have to say what you want
to hear to make it plain that it's what he meant from what he DISD say.
What's the matter with you? The time of 7:17pm came from Sibert. And the
other times came from each place that I quoted. The ambulance arrived at
the main entrance at 6:55pm, and that fits with an arrival at 7:17pm at
the morgue around back.


You're not going to get away and escape the fact that there were
multiple caskets or that there was switch and the facts prove it.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Then the
one you need to know about last, which was the bronze casket with the body
in it. When that casket was opened, the agents saw the body of JFK inside
and they may have even helped get the body onto the morgue table.

This tale of yours gets more ludicrous the hard you try to save it. Lifton
and Horne only have two caskets arriving.

Correct for a change! There were 2 caskets. The SHIPPING casket and the
Bronze casket. But the Bronze casket arrived twice. And the tale is not
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So we have Boyajian's estimate of a casket arriving at 6:35, David saying
it arrived about 6:45 and Reed saying it had already arrived when he got
there at 6:30.

Chalk up another WRONG! You mind just isn't up to handling this fairly
simple process. You won't listen and you keep insisting silly things. I
would trust Boyajian's timing more than David's, since he seems more
squared away. Same for Reed.

Post by bigdog
So should we believe that these were three different casket
arrivals or that these three men simply gave varying estimates of the time
of the same casket arrival.

Don't be ridiculous. It's amazing! I could use this sequence of events
as an IQ test. Pass it and you're average intelligence. Fail and it's
time for special training. The story of Dennis David, who saw BOTH casket
arrivals proves that idea is stupid. And he knew the difference in the
type of caskets that were involved.

Post by bigdog
Now we get to your real source for a 7:17 arrival. It doesn't come from
any witness nor from any document. He comes from the author of the article
you have cited. He admitted as much when he wrote, This author estimates
that Sibert and O'Neill, along with Greer and the ambulance, arrived at
the morgue entrance just prior to 7:17 PM. Sibert told the ARRB that he
and O'Neill assisted Greer and Kellerman in taking the ornamental bronze
casket into the anteroom of the morgue at about 7:17 PM [15, p. 45; p.
50]. In their interview with Specter, both agents said that "preparations
for the autopsy" occurred at approximately 7:17 PM [12, p. 2]. "
So there we have it. No witness said 7:17. No document said 7:17. Just
some kook author whom you have placed blind faith in. The silliness stems
from believing that differences in the estimated time of arrival of a
casket indicates there were multiple casket arrivals rather than simply
that the men making the estimates differed in their estimates.

You've screwed up badly. Your constant failure to understand the
situation and to listen to what your being told is just plain foolish.
You're WRONG again, and I see that you'll never get it right. I'm not
doing any of this for you, but to make it clear to others that may listen
in. By now, I' sure THEY know what the story is, so you failing yet again
isn't important. But I'm done wasting my time on you. I'm outa here.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

The body in the SHIPPING casket came to the morgue at least 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket which was with the family (including Jackie) and
the various agents in a motorcade from the airport. Based on sworn
testimony and documents.

Complete fabrication. Even if we were to except your bogus scenario (which
I most certainly do not), your timeline doesn't show a 42 minute
difference in arrival times.

So then you're calling me a liar! fabrications are lies! You're
saying that the sworn testimony and the documents that I've shown are
lies. But of course, you have proof that the documents are false and that
everything I've said above was a lie. Tell me how you know that? Your
opinion as usual?

Other than Boyajian's after action report which specified a casket
arriving at 6:35, what document shows any other casket arriving at the
loading dock.

When I said "document" I meant the Boyajian after action report.
However, we could also include the report by the Gawler's crew which
"Body removed from metal shipping casket at USNH at Beth."
From: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/21048-edwin-stroble-prepared-john-f-kennedy-for-funeral/

The Gawler people were not there when the body arrived and had no first
hand knowledge of the type of casket. They may have been told that or just
assumed the body had arrived in a shipping casket which would be a
reasonable guess since it would be highly unusual for a body to be removed
from one burial casket and be placed in another. In essence, the casket in
which JFK's body was placed in at Parkland was nothing more than a very
expensive shipping casket since that is all it was used for. JFK's body
was in it for roughly six hours and that casket was then discarded.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
A casket was logged as arriving at 6:35.
There is no other log indicating a second casket.

WRONG! The log from Gawler's which I linked to just above mentions
another casket called a "Marcellus 710" which they brought with them, and
of course, the SHIPPING casket which they saw the body come out of. You
don't seem to be familiar with these things. How's the old memory?

That is not a log. They weren't there when the body arrived.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
WRONG! Your favorite witness Richard Lipsey said clearly that there
would be a casket with the BODY in it that would arrive at the back door
(morgue). I showed you the interview of Dennis David and the after action
report of Sgt. Boyajian and you're going to call them liars too? The old
LN whine...they all lied! You have to be fried if you think all the sworn
testimony and documents are wrong! Paranoia to the max! David identified
the casket and a SHIPPING casket. Edward Reed helped bring in the
SHIPPING casket and saw that it was JFK inside when it was opened.
Everything fits, and you sit there and pretend that they all lied and the
documents are phony, etc.

No, I'm trying to get you to cite a document that there was a second
casket arrival.

I've just done that above. And why there would be a "document" that
said that I don't know. Probably you clinging to a dying hope.

No you haven't. You have taken varying witness accounts and interpreted it
to mean there were multiple casket arrivals. There is no document that
says another casket arrived that evening.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Then you've also seen the testimony of Dennis David when a half hour
later he saw the second ambulance at the main entrance letting off the
family to go upstairs on the elevator. Not once have you been able to
shake the eyewitness accounts of these people, yet you blat out you
opinion that opposes everything with no proof at all! Talk about denial!

The eyewitness accounts are contradictory. I go with the witnesses whose
accounts fit with other known facts.

There are no "contradictions" if you understand what happened.

Of course there are. Sibert and O'Neill said they saw the body removed
from the same ornamental casket which they had accompanied from
Bethesda.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Sibert's later
recollection was that the body was already being prepared for autopsy by
7:17.

WRONG! The process BEGAN at 7:17pm he said. But then why was the
first cut recorded by the FBI as 8:15pm? Is your witness any good? That
leaves an hour with everyone just sitting around. They must have been
waiting for the high level officers and 'guests' to arrive.

You should be asking yourself these questions. You are the one trying to
use Sibert to establish a second casket arriving at 7:17 which is
ludicrous because he didn't say a casket was delivered at 7:17.

This has all been discussed thoroughly, but you will pretend you forgot

You will pretend Sibert said something he didn't.

Post by mainframetech
"The motorcade arrived at the front of the NNMC at 6:55 PM [4, p. 478].
Hence, that is when Sibert and O’Neill arrived. Their report
states that, after Mrs. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy had alighted and
entered the building, the ambulance (carrying the Dallas casket)
“was thereafter driven to the rear entrance...” The word
“thereafter” is a catch-all, concealing a significant
delay before the navy ambulance moved to the rear [4, p. 478].

So this is your idea of evidence, your interpretation of what was meant by
the word thereafter. It would be nice if these authors you are citing
provided the entire quote rather than lifting phrases out of context.

Post by mainframetech
After the delay, Sibert and O’Neill either drove or walked [2, p.
43] to the loading dock adjacent to the morgue complex and arrived there
presumably at 7:17 PM,

"Presumably"?. So you think these presumptions constitute real evidence.

Post by mainframetech
the time they gave to Arlen Specter for when
“preparation of the autopsy” began [8, p. 2]. This begs
the question of what happened between 7:17 and 8:15 PM, the time they gave
for when the "first incision was made." Nothing in their report directly
answers this question, and, we believe, for good reason, i.e. they needed
to conceal the fact that they failed in their primary duty: they lost
vigil of the president’s body/casket for a considerable period of
time."

Your own quote tells us 7:17 was for "preparation of the autopsy", not the
time of arrival. You still have not cited one source that said any casket
arrived at the loading dock at 7:17.

Post by mainframetech
From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/JWS-FXO/

Post by bigdog
Nobody
said that and no document said that, yet you treat it as an established
fact that a second casket arrived at 7:17. Sibert was the only one who
mentioned 7:17 and he didn't use that to specify the time of arrival. It
is a complete factoid that there was a casket which arrived at 7:17, aka a
fabrication.

The fabrication is yours, since you refuse to put all the facts
together and prove to yourself that there was a second casket. Now here's

The fact is that no one said a casket arrived at 7:17. That is a
fabrication.

Post by mainframetech
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20138-photo-or-layout-of-bethesda-autopsy-room/
Note that the drawing shows the movement of the SHIPPING casket coming
in from the loading dock to the right by the table #1. Next you see the
movement of the body from table #1 to table #2 for embalming. Next, you
se the cooler room where Sibert said he put the Bronze casket. Later
Custer put in the heavy dark marker casket, which was the Marcellus 710
that the Gawler's people brought. This is yet another proof that there
were 3 caskets, which included the SHIPPING casket and the Bronze casket.
But it won't matter how much proof I show, and I've shown a lot. You
will bow to your faith in the WCR and disbelieve all evidence except the
WCR.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
That doesn't establish what time the ornamental casket arrived since
you are claiming that casket was empty. There is no document showing a
second casket arrival at 7:17 or any other time. If a second casket
arrived, why do you suppose Sgt. Boyajian didn't log that one as well?

Apparently Boyajian wasn't part of the second or third process.
"In this author's opinion, the information provided above is proof beyond
a reasonable doubt that President Kennedy's body arrived at the Bethesda
morgue at shortly after 6:30 PM in a shipping casket. The ornamental
casket, in which the body had been placed in Dallas, arrived at Bethesda
Naval Hospital at 6:55 PM, and was carried into the morgue twice.
Initially this occurred at approximately 7:17 PM with the casket carried
by FBI Special Agents James Sibert and Francis O'Neill and Secret Service
agents into the anteroom, and it occurred again at 8:00 PM with the casket
carried by the honor guard into the morgue."
From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So if you are not using Boyajian's report to establish a second casket
arrival at 7:17, what is your source for a second casket arriving AT THAT
TIME?

You can read. See above. James Sibert's various comments as to time
will suffice. He stated he brought in the Bronze casket and placed in in
the cooler room, exactly as the drawing shows. We've been over this a
number of times, why are you forcing us to repeat it all over again?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
At the above link you can find the names of all the servicemen that
were part of the casket situation, for each of the 3 'arrivals'.
Hopefully, this will be remembered by you so that this is not necessary
to go through again.

According to your above link, the Navy ambulance arrived at Bethesda at
about 6:55, not 7:17 as you keep insisting.

WRONG as usual! What is wrong with you? It should be clear to you by
now that the arrival of 6:55pm was for the ambulance (with the empty
casket) to arrive at the main entrance of the Bethesda hospital. They
then let off the family who then went up in the elevator to the 17th floor
to the VIP suite. They then drove around to the back of the building
where the loading dock for the morgue was located. By then it was 7:17pm.
They brought in the Bronze casket and had to put it in the cooler room
because the SHIPPING casket was in the morgue next to table #1 and the
Gawler's casket was there on the floor, so there was no room for the
Bronze casket that came from Parkland.

Post by bigdog
Do you even bother to read the
articles you provide links to? You have no source for a casket arriving at
7:17 so why do you keep claiming that happened? Why do you object when I
call that a fabrication?

I don't like being called a liar when it's not true. I have given you
all the information needed to KNOW that the Bronze casket arrived at the
morgue at about 7:17pm and 42 minutes later than the SHIPPING casket with
the body in it. Your inability to use simple understanding is very
irritating. This is all old news that you failed to understand the first
few times we went through it. I'm getting to the point that you just
don't have the capacity to take on this information, since your minds
which is besotted by the WCR must be rejecting anything other than the
WCR.

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So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

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Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

I use the term as a 'balcony' type area that stands over the main
entrance. It would overlook the lobby that is part of the main entrance.

How could he observe both those events from that location?

Now what are you talking about? Don't you know what a balcony is?
That it can overhang a lobby which has a main entrance to a hospital?
None of this is new.

You are citing David as seeing the ambulance stop at the front entrance
and also seeing the ambulance drive up to the loading dock. I'm wondering
where he could have been that would have allowed him to see both events.

Lordee! You just refuse to face the fact that the 2 arrivals were
many minutes apart. Dennis David was able to se both arrivals because he
was in charge of the detail that brought in the SHIPPING casket and then
he went to a location where he could see the main entrance and he then saw
the Bronze casket ambulance arrive at the main entrance. Simple.

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and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

I DO NOT REJECT THAT. All that was explained to you, but apparently
it was just too complicated for you to grasp. I'll try again in simple
words. There were 3 casket arrivals that night. First was the SHIPPING
casket at about 6:35pm. Then the Bronze casket at about 7:17pm.

Why do you keep saying that when you know no witness or document shows a
casket arriving at 7:17. That has been pointed out to you countless times
and still you pretend not to know that. 7:17 was the time Sibert said they
began preparations for the autopsy. That was not the time of arrival of
any casket. There is no witness or document that supports a casket
arriving at 7:17.

See above. I've showed you that info before but your crazed mind was
unable to contain the info.

You have NEVER cited a document or a witness who said a casket arrived at
7:17 yet you continue to insist that happened. No such document or witness
exists and we both know it.

Bull! Sibert was that witness. He didn't have to say what you want
to hear to make it plain that it's what he meant from what he DISD say.
What's the matter with you? The time of 7:17pm came from Sibert. And the
other times came from each place that I quoted. The ambulance arrived at
the main entrance at 6:55pm, and that fits with an arrival at 7:17pm at
the morgue around back.
You're not going to get away and escape the fact that there were
multiple caskets or that there was switch and the facts prove it.

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Then the
one you need to know about last, which was the bronze casket with the body
in it. When that casket was opened, the agents saw the body of JFK inside
and they may have even helped get the body onto the morgue table.

This tale of yours gets more ludicrous the hard you try to save it. Lifton
and Horne only have two caskets arriving.

Correct for a change! There were 2 caskets. The SHIPPING casket and the
Bronze casket. But the Bronze casket arrived twice. And the tale is not
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So we have Boyajian's estimate of a casket arriving at 6:35, David saying
it arrived about 6:45 and Reed saying it had already arrived when he got
there at 6:30.

Chalk up another WRONG! You mind just isn't up to handling this fairly
simple process. You won't listen and you keep insisting silly things. I
would trust Boyajian's timing more than David's, since he seems more
squared away. Same for Reed.

Post by bigdog
So should we believe that these were three different casket
arrivals or that these three men simply gave varying estimates of the time
of the same casket arrival.

Don't be ridiculous. It's amazing! I could use this sequence of events
as an IQ test. Pass it and you're average intelligence. Fail and it's
time for special training. The story of Dennis David, who saw BOTH casket
arrivals proves that idea is stupid. And he knew the difference in the
type of caskets that were involved.

Post by bigdog
Now we get to your real source for a 7:17 arrival. It doesn't come from
any witness nor from any document. He comes from the author of the article
you have cited. He admitted as much when he wrote, This author estimates
that Sibert and O'Neill, along with Greer and the ambulance, arrived at
the morgue entrance just prior to 7:17 PM. Sibert told the ARRB that he
and O'Neill assisted Greer and Kellerman in taking the ornamental bronze
casket into the anteroom of the morgue at about 7:17 PM [15, p. 45; p.
50]. In their interview with Specter, both agents said that "preparations
for the autopsy" occurred at approximately 7:17 PM [12, p. 2]. "
So there we have it. No witness said 7:17. No document said 7:17. Just
some kook author whom you have placed blind faith in. The silliness stems
from believing that differences in the estimated time of arrival of a
casket indicates there were multiple casket arrivals rather than simply
that the men making the estimates differed in their estimates.

You've screwed up badly. Your constant failure to understand the
situation and to listen to what your being told is just plain foolish.
You're WRONG again, and I see that you'll never get it right. I'm not
doing any of this for you, but to make it clear to others that may listen
in. By now, I' sure THEY know what the story is, so you failing yet again
isn't important. But I'm done wasting my time on you. I'm outa here.
Chris

[mainframetech]

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I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

The body in the SHIPPING casket came to the morgue at least 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket which was with the family (including Jackie) and
the various agents in a motorcade from the airport. Based on sworn
testimony and documents.

Complete fabrication. Even if we were to except your bogus scenario (which
I most certainly do not), your timeline doesn't show a 42 minute
difference in arrival times.

So then you're calling me a liar! fabrications are lies! You're
saying that the sworn testimony and the documents that I've shown are
lies. But of course, you have proof that the documents are false and that
everything I've said above was a lie. Tell me how you know that? Your
opinion as usual?

Other than Boyajian's after action report which specified a casket
arriving at 6:35, what document shows any other casket arriving at the
loading dock.

When I said "document" I meant the Boyajian after action report.
However, we could also include the report by the Gawler's crew which
"Body removed from metal shipping casket at USNH at Beth."
From: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/21048-edwin-stroble-prepared-john-f-kennedy-for-funeral/

The Gawler people were not there when the body arrived and had no first
hand knowledge of the type of casket. They may have been told that or just
assumed the body had arrived in a shipping casket which would be a
reasonable guess since it would be highly unusual for a body to be removed
from one burial casket and be placed in another.

WRONG! You admit to making a guess, but act like it was truth! What
baloney! The Gawler people were there sometime near the beginning of the
clandestine work, because Tom Robinson was present for the sawing off of
the skull to remove the brain and get rid of any bullets present.

Post by bigdog
In essence, the casket in
which JFK's body was placed in at Parkland was nothing more than a very
expensive shipping casket since that is all it was used for. JFK's body
was in it for roughly six hours and that casket was then discarded.

CRAP! You won't get away with that attempted escape from the facts.
Dennis David knew the difference in caskets, having seen many SHIPPING
caskets in Vietnam. Others who were there also made a clear statement
that the SHIPPING casket and the "ornamental casket" were different as
well.

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A casket was logged as arriving at 6:35.
There is no other log indicating a second casket.

WRONG! The log from Gawler's which I linked to just above mentions
another casket called a "Marcellus 710" which they brought with them, and
of course, the SHIPPING casket which they saw the body come out of. You
don't seem to be familiar with these things. How's the old memory?

That is not a log. They weren't there when the body arrived.

WRONG! You won't dismiss the evidence that there was mention of the
body coming out of a shipping casket from yet another source. It doesn't
matter if you call it a 'log' or not.

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WRONG! Your favorite witness Richard Lipsey said clearly that there
would be a casket with the BODY in it that would arrive at the back door
(morgue). I showed you the interview of Dennis David and the after action
report of Sgt. Boyajian and you're going to call them liars too? The old
LN whine...they all lied! You have to be fried if you think all the sworn
testimony and documents are wrong! Paranoia to the max! David identified
the casket and a SHIPPING casket. Edward Reed helped bring in the
SHIPPING casket and saw that it was JFK inside when it was opened.
Everything fits, and you sit there and pretend that they all lied and the
documents are phony, etc.

No, I'm trying to get you to cite a document that there was a second
casket arrival.

I've just done that above. And why there would be a "document" that
said that I don't know. Probably you clinging to a dying hope.

No you haven't. You have taken varying witness accounts and interpreted it
to mean there were multiple casket arrivals. There is no document that
says another casket arrived that evening.

WRONG! You are making a phony point. It does not take a 'log' to
prove there were other casket arrivals. That's been done and you missed
it. The evidence has been shown. You just can't take it. Your denial
was brainwashed deep into you from the WCR.

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Post by mainframetech
Then you've also seen the testimony of Dennis David when a half hour
later he saw the second ambulance at the main entrance letting off the
family to go upstairs on the elevator. Not once have you been able to
shake the eyewitness accounts of these people, yet you blat out you
opinion that opposes everything with no proof at all! Talk about denial!

The eyewitness accounts are contradictory. I go with the witnesses whose
accounts fit with other known facts.

There are no "contradictions" if you understand what happened.

Of course there are. Sibert and O'Neill said they saw the body removed
from the same ornamental casket which they had accompanied from
Bethesda.

THAT'S NOT A CONTRADICTION! What's the matter with you? Have you
forgotten the list you were given of the sequence of events? Argue from
that. The casket that the agents came to Bethesda with, was indeed the
third casket arrival, and it had been sent out with the body in it so that
when it came back they could say they saw the body come out of the Bronze
casket and avoid the story of the SHIPPING casket altogether.

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Sibert's later
recollection was that the body was already being prepared for autopsy by
7:17.

WRONG! The process BEGAN at 7:17pm he said. But then why was the
first cut recorded by the FBI as 8:15pm? Is your witness any good? That
leaves an hour with everyone just sitting around. They must have been
waiting for the high level officers and 'guests' to arrive.

You should be asking yourself these questions. You are the one trying to
use Sibert to establish a second casket arriving at 7:17 which is
ludicrous because he didn't say a casket was delivered at 7:17.

This has all been discussed thoroughly, but you will pretend you forgot

You will pretend Sibert said something he didn't.

Post by mainframetech
"The motorcade arrived at the front of the NNMC at 6:55 PM [4, p. 478].
Hence, that is when Sibert and O’Neill arrived. Their report
states that, after Mrs. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy had alighted and
entered the building, the ambulance (carrying the Dallas casket)
“was thereafter driven to the rear entrance...” The word
“thereafter” is a catch-all, concealing a significant
delay before the navy ambulance moved to the rear [4, p. 478].

So this is your idea of evidence, your interpretation of what was meant by
the word thereafter. It would be nice if these authors you are citing
provided the entire quote rather than lifting phrases out of context.

I thought you had a brain and could make a guestimate yourself.
Then if your guess was too far off, you could argue about it. But no, you
went of into the boondocks.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
After the delay, Sibert and O’Neill either drove or walked [2, p.
43] to the loading dock adjacent to the morgue complex and arrived there
presumably at 7:17 PM,

"Presumably"?. So you think these presumptions constitute real evidence.

LOL! Having a hard time with it? You can mention what YOU think it
the right timing and then we can discuss it. Otherwise, what I put down
is the word.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
the time they gave to Arlen Specter for when
“preparation of the autopsy” began [8, p. 2]. This begs
the question of what happened between 7:17 and 8:15 PM, the time they gave
for when the "first incision was made." Nothing in their report directly
answers this question, and, we believe, for good reason, i.e. they needed
to conceal the fact that they failed in their primary duty: they lost
vigil of the president’s body/casket for a considerable period of
time."

Your own quote tells us 7:17 was for "preparation of the autopsy", not the
time of arrival. You still have not cited one source that said any casket
arrived at the loading dock at 7:17.

Oh, get off the crap! You're just having a hard time trying to cover
up the truth. It's there in all the statements and sworn testimony and
documents you've ben shown. Try putting it all together for a change
instead of trying to nitpick it in little bitsies....:)

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/JWS-FXO/

Post by bigdog
Nobody
said that and no document said that, yet you treat it as an established
fact that a second casket arrived at 7:17. Sibert was the only one who
mentioned 7:17 and he didn't use that to specify the time of arrival. It
is a complete factoid that there was a casket which arrived at 7:17, aka a
fabrication.

The fabrication is yours, since you refuse to put all the facts
together and prove to yourself that there was a second casket. Now here's

The fact is that no one said a casket arrived at 7:17. That is a
fabrication.

WRONG! It was said by researchers at the very least, and the 7:17pm
was stated by Sibert to a WC lawyer.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20138-photo-or-layout-of-bethesda-autopsy-room/
Note that the drawing shows the movement of the SHIPPING casket coming
in from the loading dock to the right by the table #1. Next you see the
movement of the body from table #1 to table #2 for embalming. Next, you
se the cooler room where Sibert said he put the Bronze casket. Later
Custer put in the heavy dark marker casket, which was the Marcellus 710
that the Gawler's people brought. This is yet another proof that there
were 3 caskets, which included the SHIPPING casket and the Bronze casket.
But it won't matter how much proof I show, and I've shown a lot. You
will bow to your faith in the WCR and disbelieve all evidence except the
WCR.

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Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
That doesn't establish what time the ornamental casket arrived since
you are claiming that casket was empty. There is no document showing a
second casket arrival at 7:17 or any other time. If a second casket
arrived, why do you suppose Sgt. Boyajian didn't log that one as well?

Apparently Boyajian wasn't part of the second or third process.
"In this author's opinion, the information provided above is proof beyond
a reasonable doubt that President Kennedy's body arrived at the Bethesda
morgue at shortly after 6:30 PM in a shipping casket. The ornamental
casket, in which the body had been placed in Dallas, arrived at Bethesda
Naval Hospital at 6:55 PM, and was carried into the morgue twice.
Initially this occurred at approximately 7:17 PM with the casket carried
by FBI Special Agents James Sibert and Francis O'Neill and Secret Service
agents into the anteroom, and it occurred again at 8:00 PM with the casket
carried by the honor guard into the morgue."
From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So if you are not using Boyajian's report to establish a second casket
arrival at 7:17, what is your source for a second casket arriving AT THAT
TIME?

You can read. See above. James Sibert's various comments as to time
will suffice. He stated he brought in the Bronze casket and placed in in
the cooler room, exactly as the drawing shows. We've been over this a
number of times, why are you forcing us to repeat it all over again?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
At the above link you can find the names of all the servicemen that
were part of the casket situation, for each of the 3 'arrivals'.
Hopefully, this will be remembered by you so that this is not necessary
to go through again.

According to your above link, the Navy ambulance arrived at Bethesda at
about 6:55, not 7:17 as you keep insisting.

WRONG as usual! What is wrong with you? It should be clear to you by
now that the arrival of 6:55pm was for the ambulance (with the empty
casket) to arrive at the main entrance of the Bethesda hospital. They
then let off the family who then went up in the elevator to the 17th floor
to the VIP suite. They then drove around to the back of the building
where the loading dock for the morgue was located. By then it was 7:17pm.
They brought in the Bronze casket and had to put it in the cooler room
because the SHIPPING casket was in the morgue next to table #1 and the
Gawler's casket was there on the floor, so there was no room for the
Bronze casket that came from Parkland.

Post by bigdog
Do you even bother to read the
articles you provide links to? You have no source for a casket arriving at
7:17 so why do you keep claiming that happened? Why do you object when I
call that a fabrication?

I don't like being called a liar when it's not true. I have given you
all the information needed to KNOW that the Bronze casket arrived at the
morgue at about 7:17pm and 42 minutes later than the SHIPPING casket with
the body in it. Your inability to use simple understanding is very
irritating. This is all old news that you failed to understand the first
few times we went through it. I'm getting to the point that you just
don't have the capacity to take on this information, since your mind
which is besotted by the WCR must be rejecting anything other than the
WCR.

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So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

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Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

I use the term as a 'balcony' type area that stands over the main
entrance. It would overlook the lobby that is part of the main entrance.

How could he observe both those events from that location?

Now what are you talking about? Don't you know what a balcony is?
That it can overhang a lobby which has a main entrance to a hospital?
None of this is new.

You are citing David as seeing the ambulance stop at the front entrance
and also seeing the ambulance drive up to the loading dock. I'm wondering
where he could have been that would have allowed him to see both events.

Lordee! You just refuse to face the fact that the 2 arrivals were
many minutes apart. Dennis David was able to see both arrivals because he
was in charge of the detail that brought in the SHIPPING casket and then
he went to a location where he could see the main entrance and he then saw
the Bronze casket ambulance arrive at the main entrance. Simple.

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and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

I DO NOT REJECT THAT. All that was explained to you, but apparently
it was just too complicated for you to grasp. I'll try again in simple
words. There were 3 casket arrivals that night. First was the SHIPPING
casket at about 6:35pm. Then the Bronze casket at about 7:17pm.

Why do you keep saying that when you know no witness or document shows a
casket arriving at 7:17. That has been pointed out to you countless times
and still you pretend not to know that. 7:17 was the time Sibert said they
began preparations for the autopsy. That was not the time of arrival of
any casket. There is no witness or document that supports a casket
arriving at 7:17.

See above. I've showed you that info before but your crazed mind was
unable to contain the info.

You have NEVER cited a document or a witness who said a casket arrived at
7:17 yet you continue to insist that happened. No such document or witness
exists and we both know it.

Bull! Sibert was that witness. He didn't have to say what you want
to hear to make it plain that it's what he meant from what he DID say.
What's the matter with you? The time of 7:17pm came from Sibert. And the
other times came from each place that I quoted. The ambulance arrived at
the main entrance at 6:55pm, and that fits with an arrival at 7:17pm at
the morgue around back.
You're not going to get away and escape the fact that there were
multiple caskets or that there was switch and the facts prove it.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Then the
one you need to know about last, which was the bronze casket with the body
in it. When that casket was opened, the agents saw the body of JFK inside
and they may have even helped get the body onto the morgue table.

This tale of yours gets more ludicrous the hard you try to save it. Lifton
and Horne only have two caskets arriving.

Correct for a change! There were 2 caskets. The SHIPPING casket and the
Bronze casket. But the Bronze casket arrived twice. And the tale is not
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So we have Boyajian's estimate of a casket arriving at 6:35, David saying
it arrived about 6:45 and Reed saying it had already arrived when he got
there at 6:30.

Chalk up another WRONG! You mind just isn't up to handling this fairly
simple process. You won't listen and you keep insisting silly things. I
would trust Boyajian's timing more than David's, since he seems more
squared away. Same for Reed.

Post by bigdog
So should we believe that these were three different casket
arrivals or that these three men simply gave varying estimates of the time
of the same casket arrival.

Don't be ridiculous. It's amazing! I could use this sequence of events
as an IQ test. Pass it and you're average intelligence. Fail and it's
time for special training. The story of Dennis David, who saw BOTH casket
arrivals proves that idea is stupid. And he knew the difference in the
type of caskets that were involved.

Post by bigdog
Now we get to your real source for a 7:17 arrival. It doesn't come from
any witness nor from any document. He comes from the author of the article
you have cited. He admitted as much when he wrote, This author estimates
that Sibert and O'Neill, along with Greer and the ambulance, arrived at
the morgue entrance just prior to 7:17 PM. Sibert told the ARRB that he
and O'Neill assisted Greer and Kellerman in taking the ornamental bronze
casket into the anteroom of the morgue at about 7:17 PM [15, p. 45; p.
50]. In their interview with Specter, both agents said that "preparations
for the autopsy" occurred at approximately 7:17 PM [12, p. 2]. "
So there we have it. No witness said 7:17. No document said 7:17. Just
some kook author whom you have placed blind faith in. The silliness stems
from believing that differences in the estimated time of arrival of a
casket indicates there were multiple casket arrivals rather than simply
that the men making the estimates differed in their estimates.

You've screwed up badly. Your constant failure to understand the
situation and to listen to what your being told is just plain foolish.
You're WRONG again, and I see that you'll never get it right. I'm not
doing any of this for you, but to make it clear to others that may listen
in. By now, I'm sure THEY know what the story is, so you failing yet again
isn't important. But I'm done wasting my time on you. I'm outa here.
Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

The body in the SHIPPING casket came to the morgue at least 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket which was with the family (including Jackie) and
the various agents in a motorcade from the airport. Based on sworn
testimony and documents.

Complete fabrication. Even if we were to except your bogus scenario (which
I most certainly do not), your timeline doesn't show a 42 minute
difference in arrival times.

So then you're calling me a liar! fabrications are lies! You're
saying that the sworn testimony and the documents that I've shown are
lies. But of course, you have proof that the documents are false and that
everything I've said above was a lie. Tell me how you know that? Your
opinion as usual?

Other than Boyajian's after action report which specified a casket
arriving at 6:35, what document shows any other casket arriving at the
loading dock.

When I said "document" I meant the Boyajian after action report.
However, we could also include the report by the Gawler's crew which
"Body removed from metal shipping casket at USNH at Beth."
From: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/21048-edwin-stroble-prepared-john-f-kennedy-for-funeral/

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
A casket was logged as arriving at 6:35.
There is no other log indicating a second casket.

WRONG! The log from Gawler's which I linked to just above mentions
another casket called a "Marcellus 710" which they brought with them, and
of course, the SHIPPING casket which they saw the body come out of. You
don't seem to be familiar with these things. How's the old memory?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
WRONG! Your favorite witness Richard Lipsey said clearly that there
would be a casket with the BODY in it that would arrive at the back door
(morgue). I showed you the interview of Dennis David and the after action
report of Sgt. Boyajian and you're going to call them liars too? The old
LN whine...they all lied! You have to be fried if you think all the sworn
testimony and documents are wrong! Paranoia to the max! David identified
the casket and a SHIPPING casket. Edward Reed helped bring in the
SHIPPING casket and saw that it was JFK inside when it was opened.
Everything fits, and you sit there and pretend that they all lied and the
documents are phony, etc.

No, I'm trying to get you to cite a document that there was a second
casket arrival.

I've just done that above. And why there would be a "document" that
said that I don't know. Probably you clinging to a dying hope.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Then you've also seen the testimony of Dennis David when a half hour
later he saw the second ambulance at the main entrance letting off the
family to go upstairs on the elevator. Not once have you been able to
shake the eyewitness accounts of these people, yet you blat out you
opinion that opposes everything with no proof at all! Talk about denial!

The eyewitness accounts are contradictory. I go with the witnesses whose
accounts fit with other known facts.

There are no "contradictions" if you understand what happened.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Sibert's later
recollection was that the body was already being prepared for autopsy by
7:17.

WRONG! The process BEGAN at 7:17pm he said. But then why was the
first cut recorded by the FBI as 8:15pm? Is your witness any good? That
leaves an hour with everyone just sitting around. They must have been
waiting for the high level officers and 'guests' to arrive.

You should be asking yourself these questions. You are the one trying to
use Sibert to establish a second casket arriving at 7:17 which is
ludicrous because he didn't say a casket was delivered at 7:17.

This has all been discussed thoroughly, but you will pretend you forgot
"The motorcade arrived at the front of the NNMC at 6:55 PM [4, p. 478].
Hence, that is when Sibert and O’Neill arrived. Their report
states that, after Mrs. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy had alighted and
entered the building, the ambulance (carrying the Dallas casket)
“was thereafter driven to the rear entrance...” The word
“thereafter” is a catch-all, concealing a significant
delay before the navy ambulance moved to the rear [4, p. 478].
After the delay, Sibert and O’Neill either drove or walked [2, p.
43] to the loading dock adjacent to the morgue complex and arrived there
presumably at 7:17 PM, the time they gave to Arlen Specter for when
“preparation of the autopsy” began [8, p. 2]. This begs
the question of what happened between 7:17 and 8:15 PM, the time they gave
for when the "first incision was made." Nothing in their report directly
answers this question, and, we believe, for good reason, i.e. they needed
to conceal the fact that they failed in their primary duty: they lost
vigil of the president’s body/casket for a considerable period of
time."
From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/JWS-FXO/

Post by bigdog
Nobody
said that and no document said that, yet you treat it as an established
fact that a second casket arrived at 7:17. Sibert was the only one who
mentioned 7:17 and he didn't use that to specify the time of arrival. It
is a complete factoid that there was a casket which arrived at 7:17, aka a
fabrication.

The fabrication is yours, since you refuse to put all the facts
together and prove to yourself that there was a second casket. Now here's
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20138-photo-or-layout-of-bethesda-autopsy-room/

I inadvertently hit POST before I finished my reply so I will continue
from where I left off.

Post by mainframetech
Note that the drawing shows the movement of the SHIPPING casket coming
in from the loading dock to the right by the table #1. Next you see the
movement of the body from table #1 to table #2 for embalming. Next, you
se the cooler room where Sibert said he put the Bronze casket. Later
Custer put in the heavy dark marker casket, which was the Marcellus 710
that the Gawler's people brought. This is yet another proof that there
were 3 caskets, which included the SHIPPING casket and the Bronze casket.

These drawings prove nothing. They are simply recollections for witnesses
which may or may not be entirely accurate. Witnesses don't prove anything
because witnesses don't always remember every detail.

Post by mainframetech
But it won't matter how much proof I show, and I've shown a lot. You
will bow to your faith in the WCR and disbelieve all evidence except the
WCR.

It's not proof but since you don't understand the meaning of the word you
wouldn't know that.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
That doesn't establish what time the ornamental casket arrived since
you are claiming that casket was empty. There is no document showing a
second casket arrival at 7:17 or any other time. If a second casket
arrived, why do you suppose Sgt. Boyajian didn't log that one as well?

Apparently Boyajian wasn't part of the second or third process.
"In this author's opinion, the information provided above is proof beyond
a reasonable doubt that President Kennedy's body arrived at the Bethesda
morgue at shortly after 6:30 PM in a shipping casket. The ornamental
casket, in which the body had been placed in Dallas, arrived at Bethesda
Naval Hospital at 6:55 PM, and was carried into the morgue twice.
Initially this occurred at approximately 7:17 PM with the casket carried
by FBI Special Agents James Sibert and Francis O'Neill and Secret Service
agents into the anteroom, and it occurred again at 8:00 PM with the casket
carried by the honor guard into the morgue."
From: http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So if you are not using Boyajian's report to establish a second casket
arrival at 7:17, what is your source for a second casket arriving AT THAT
TIME?

You can read. See above. James Sibert's various comments as to time
will suffice. He stated he brought in the Bronze casket and placed in in
the cooler room, exactly as the drawing shows. We've been over this a
number of times, why are you forcing us to repeat it all over again?

The issue is WHEN not WHERE. Still waiting for your source that a casket
arrived at the loading dock at 7:17. You've been asked that repeatedly and
all you can do is cite Sibert who said the body was already being prepared
for autopsy at 7:17. That does nothing to establish time of arrival.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
At the above link you can find the names of all the servicemen that
were part of the casket situation, for each of the 3 'arrivals'.
Hopefully, this will be remembered by you so that this is not necessary
to go through again.

According to your above link, the Navy ambulance arrived at Bethesda at
about 6:55, not 7:17 as you keep insisting.

WRONG as usual! What is wrong with you? It should be clear to you by
now that the arrival of 6:55pm was for the ambulance (with the empty
casket) to arrive at the main entrance of the Bethesda hospital. They
then let off the family who then went up in the elevator to the 17th floor
to the VIP suite. They then drove around to the back of the building
where the loading dock for the morgue was located. By then it was 7:17pm.

That is a fabrication. You have provided nothing that establishes a casket
arrived at the loading dock at 7:17. I will keep calling it a fabrication
until you can provide evidence or you retract the claim.

Post by mainframetech
They brought in the Bronze casket and had to put it in the cooler room
because the SHIPPING casket was in the morgue next to table #1 and the
Gawler's casket was there on the floor, so there was no room for the
Bronze casket that came from Parkland.

Which witness said there was already a shipping casket in the room when
the ornamental casket arrived?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Do you even bother to read the
articles you provide links to? You have no source for a casket arriving at
7:17 so why do you keep claiming that happened? Why do you object when I
call that a fabrication?

I don't like being called a liar when it's not true. I have given you
all the information needed to KNOW that the Bronze casket arrived at the
morgue at about 7:17pm and 42 minutes later than the SHIPPING casket with
the body in it.

You have fabricated that because you can offer no source that said that
happened.

Post by mainframetech
Your inability to use simple understanding is very
irritating. This is all old news that you failed to understand the first
few times we went through it. I'm getting to the point that you just
don't have the capacity to take on this information, since your minds
which is besotted by the WCR must be rejecting anything other than the
WCR.

You have been given countless opportunities to cite a source that said a
casket arrived at the morgue's loading dock at 7:17. You have failed to
provide such a source each and every time you've been challenged to do so.
If you don't like me calling your statements fabrications then back them
up or quit fabricating them.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

I use the term as a 'balcony' type area that stands over the main
entrance. It would overlook the lobby that is part of the main entrance.

How could he observe both those events from that location?

Now what are you talking about? Don't you know what a balcony is?
That it can overhang a lobby which has a main entrance to a hospital?
None of this is new.

You are citing David as seeing the ambulance stop at the front entrance
and also seeing the ambulance drive up to the loading dock. I'm wondering
where he could have been that would have allowed him to see both events.

Lordee! You just refuse to face the fact that the 2 arrivals were
many minutes apart. Dennis David was able to se both arrivals because he
was in charge of the detail that brought in the SHIPPING casket and then
he went to a location where he could see the main entrance and he then saw
the Bronze casket ambulance arrive at the main entrance. Simple.

So David saw the casket unloaded and brought into the autopsy room and
then he walked to where he could observe the front entrance and you don't
think that ambulance could have driven around to the front during that
time frame. Instead you interpret that to mean a second ambulance
arrived.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

I DO NOT REJECT THAT. All that was explained to you, but apparently
it was just too complicated for you to grasp. I'll try again in simple
words. There were 3 casket arrivals that night. First was the SHIPPING
casket at about 6:35pm. Then the Bronze casket at about 7:17pm.

Why do you keep saying that when you know no witness or document shows a
casket arriving at 7:17. That has been pointed out to you countless times
and still you pretend not to know that. 7:17 was the time Sibert said they
began preparations for the autopsy. That was not the time of arrival of
any casket. There is no witness or document that supports a casket
arriving at 7:17.

See above. I've showed you that info before but your crazed mind was
unable to contain the info.

You have NEVER cited a document or a witness who said a casket arrived at
7:17 yet you continue to insist that happened. No such document or witness
exists and we both know it.

Bull! Sibert was that witness. He didn't have to say what you want
to hear to make it plain that it's what he meant from what he DISD say.
What's the matter with you? The time of 7:17pm came from Sibert.

Why do you keep pretending he said that was the time the casket arrived.
His statement doesn't remotely suggest that. You know Sibert didn't say
that and still you insist he did. Most people would call that a
fabrication.

Post by mainframetech
And the
other times came from each place that I quoted. The ambulance arrived at
the main entrance at 6:55pm, and that fits with an arrival at 7:17pm at
the morgue around back.

There was no arrival at 7:17. You are fabricating that.

Post by mainframetech
You're not going to get away and escape the fact that there were
multiple caskets or that there was switch and the facts prove it.

More fabrications.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Then the
one you need to know about last, which was the bronze casket with the body
in it. When that casket was opened, the agents saw the body of JFK inside
and they may have even helped get the body onto the morgue table.

This tale of yours gets more ludicrous the hard you try to save it. Lifton
and Horne only have two caskets arriving.

Correct for a change! There were 2 caskets. The SHIPPING casket and the
Bronze casket. But the Bronze casket arrived twice. And the tale is not
http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

So we have Boyajian's estimate of a casket arriving at 6:35, David saying
it arrived about 6:45 and Reed saying it had already arrived when he got
there at 6:30.

Chalk up another WRONG! You mind just isn't up to handling this fairly
simple process.

Irony noted.

Post by mainframetech
You won't listen and you keep insisting silly things. I
would trust Boyajian's timing more than David's, since he seems more
squared away. Same for Reed.

It doesn't matter which one of them is correct. They are all estimating
and varying estimates do not establish there were multiple caskets. Just 3
people with a different memory of the time of arrival for the same
casket.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
So should we believe that these were three different casket
arrivals or that these three men simply gave varying estimates of the time
of the same casket arrival.

Don't be ridiculous. It's amazing! I could use this sequence of events
as an IQ test. Pass it and you're average intelligence. Fail and it's
time for special training. The story of Dennis David, who saw BOTH casket
arrivals proves that idea is stupid. And he knew the difference in the
type of caskets that were involved.

Quote David saying he saw two casket arrivals. Notice I said QUOTE. Nobody
is interested in your silly interpretations of what he said.

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog
Now we get to your real source for a 7:17 arrival. It doesn't come from
any witness nor from any document. He comes from the author of the article
you have cited. He admitted as much when he wrote, This author estimates
that Sibert and O'Neill, along with Greer and the ambulance, arrived at
the morgue entrance just prior to 7:17 PM. Sibert told the ARRB that he
and O'Neill assisted Greer and Kellerman in taking the ornamental bronze
casket into the anteroom of the morgue at about 7:17 PM [15, p. 45; p.
50]. In their interview with Specter, both agents said that "preparations
for the autopsy" occurred at approximately 7:17 PM [12, p. 2]. "
So there we have it. No witness said 7:17. No document said 7:17. Just
some kook author whom you have placed blind faith in. The silliness stems
from believing that differences in the estimated time of arrival of a
casket indicates there were multiple casket arrivals rather than simply
that the men making the estimates differed in their estimates.

You've screwed up badly. Your constant failure to understand the
situation and to listen to what your being told is just plain foolish.

Nothing you have told me makes the least bit of sense. You have repeatedly
failed to provide the cites you've been challenged to come up with.

Post by mainframetech
You're WRONG again, and I see that you'll never get it right. I'm not
doing any of this for you, but to make it clear to others that may listen
in. By now, I' sure THEY know what the story is, so you failing yet again
isn't important. But I'm done wasting my time on you. I'm outa here.

If anybody is following these exchanges, it will be clear to them that you
can't back up the things you claim.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I'm straight about it, but you may have gotten something wrong from
what I said. Separately meant that it was coming in without the family
and all the agents, which would hinder them in doing the things they were
ordered to do.

So by that definition, when they dropped Jackie off at the front and then
drove the body around to the back, that means the body came in separately.

The body in the SHIPPING casket came to the morgue at least 42 minutes
before the Bronze casket which was with the family (including Jackie) and
the various agents in a motorcade from the airport. Based on sworn
testimony and documents.

Complete fabrication. Even if we were to except your bogus scenario (which
I most certainly do not), your timeline doesn't show a 42 minute
difference in arrival times. A casket was logged as arriving at 6:35.
There is no other log indicating a second casket. Sibert's later
recollection was that the body was already being prepared for autopsy by
7:17. That doesn't establish what time the ornamental casket arrived since
you are claiming that casket was empty. There is no document showing a
second casket arrival at 7:17 or any other time. If a second casket
arrived, why do you suppose Sgt. Boyajian didn't log that one as well?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
So you're making up things I said once
again! My point was that they knew that there would be an arrival of the
body at that time, so they were waiting on the loading dock. The only way
that could happen is by Humes getting a phone call.

I'm sure they were told the body was arriving shortly. I'm trying to
figure out why you think that is an indication the body was arriving in a
different casket than the one that was in the Navy ambulance.

You're off on a wild goose chase. You need anything to try and
pretend that my information is somehow faulty.

I don't need to pretend that.

Post by mainframetech
The explanation is above
for the separately comment.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
The information that the body was sent over from the airport by
helicopter was discussed on the AF1 plane,

It was discussed and ultimately decide to drive the body to Bethesda by
Navy ambulance.

And yet the body arrived 42 minutes before the Bronze casket.
Where's your logic hat?

That didn't happen. That is just your FUBAR figuring.

Nope. Won't do. You've had all the backup and proof needed to know
that the body arrived in a different casket. We've discussed it to death
and I've proved my point over and over. If you've forgotten again, that's
too bad. I remind you of Dennis David who helped carry in the body to the
morgue from the ambulance. He later (half hour) went to a mezzanine where
he saw the second ambulance arrive at the main entrance and the family
come out of it and go up in the elevator to the 17th floor to the VIP
suite. The ambulance then went around the back of the building which was
the location of the morgue, and the agents got out.

How could he see the main entrance from the mezzanine?

I use the term as a 'balcony' type area that stands over the main
entrance. It would overlook the lobby that is part of the main entrance.

How could he observe both those events from that location?

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
and there was logically no
choice that a helicopter was used because the body arrived 42 minutes
before the empty Bronze casket. So you're wrong again, and the proof is
there.

Pure nonsense. The body arrived by Navy ambulance in the same casket it
was placed in at Parkland and which Siebert and O'Neill saw removed from
AT THE START of the autopsy proceedings.

WRONG! You've been showed the testimony of the men that took the body
out of the SHIPPING casket and recognized JFK, and that was just after
6:35pm. The Bronze casket didn't arrive at the morgue until at least
7:17pm. And we've had this whole discussion many times, so kindly stop
repeating the whole thing.

Wrong on all counts. The body arrived at 6:35 in the bronze casket. That
is the time it was logged in at the loading dock. The only reference to
7:17 was a Sibert and O'Neill report which said that was the time they
began preparations for the autopsy. Nobody said a casket arrived at the
loading dock at 7:17. Nobody except you.

We've been all over all this. Why is your brain so fogged up that you
can't remember a single thing? You've been shown the statements and
testimony of the men that brought in the SHIPPING casket and they
identified it as such, and they then recognized JFK in that casket.

You've been shown the statements where Sibert and O'Neill said the body
was removed from the casket that they had accompanied from Andrews but you
reject that.

I DO NOT REJECT THAT. All that was explained to you, but apparently
it was just too complicated for you to grasp. I'll try again in simple
words. There were 3 casket arrivals that night. First was the SHIPPING
casket at about 6:35pm. Then the Bronze casket at about 7:17pm.

Why do you keep saying that when you know no witness or document shows a
casket arriving at 7:17. That has been pointed out to you countless times
and still you pretend not to know that. 7:17 was the time Sibert said they
began preparations for the autopsy. That was not the time of arrival of
any casket. There is no witness or document that supports a casket
arriving at 7:17.

Here it is again. Your faulty memory has betrayed you again:

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
Then the
one you need to know about last, which was the bronze casket with the body
in it. When that casket was opened, the agents saw the body of JFK inside
and they may have even helped get the body onto the morgue table.

This tale of yours gets more ludicrous the hard you try to save it. Lifton
and Horne only have two caskets arriving.

Correct for a change! There were 2 caskets, one was the SHIPPING
casket, and the other was the Bronze casket which arrived twice.

Post by bigdog
To try to cover the fallacies
that have been exposed in that bizarre tale, you have invented an even
more bizarre tale of JFK's body being put back into the original
ornamental casket and then shipped out and then returned to the loading
dock. You have dreamed this part up entirely out of thin air. You can't
even blame Lifton or Horne for this. There are absolutely no witnesses or
documents that even suggest such a thing happened. You decided the only
way your beliefs could be valid is if this had happened so in your mind it
must have happened.

The fallacies are in your understanding. Go here to learn the whole
sequence:

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/BNH-chicanery/

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
I believe the last arrival of the Bronze casket with JFK in it was so
that any of the agents that saw that could testify to that fact, and
therefore confound anything said about a SHIPPING casket with a switched
body. The proof of that is YOU and how you can't get your mind around
what really happened and remain a sucker for all these games they played.

If Sibert and O'Neill were willing to go along with the cover up, why
would they even bother with all these shenanigans? It does not surprise me
that you consider my skepticism as the proof that validates this idiotic
tale you have concocted. It is further indication that you have absolutely
no concept of what the word proof really means.

You don't have skepticism, you have hidebound, locked in WCR
problems. And you can't get away from them to consider new evidence.

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
One
of the men that brought in that SHIPPING casket, went to the lobby and
happened to see the other ambulance (spoken about by Richard Lipsey) drop
off the family and they came in and went upstairs. That ambulance went
around to the back where the morgue was, and they took in the empty
casket.

Still waiting for an explanation for how they could have unloaded a
shipping casket from AF1 with all those cameras and witnesses around and
nobody saw that happen.

You're raking over old info which has all been discussed before.
Once the Bronze casket was down and in an ambulance and on its way, no one
would stick around to take photos of the plane. Then they bring out the
SHIPPING casket and put it in a helicopter and go to Bethesda.

After the ambulance departed, LBJ stopped to give a speech to a nationwide
audience. He then went over to speak with congressional leaders. It was
only then that he left by helicopter. That is the point where others would
begin to depart. By the time everyone left considerably more time would
have elapsed. A conservative estimate for that to happen, even if everyone
did leave right away, is 15 minutes. Only then could the unload the
shipping casket without any witnesses or cameras being present. Let's give
you the benefit of the doubt and say it would only take 5 minutes to
unload your shipping casket from the plane on onto the helicopter. That
means the ambulance already had a 20 minute head start on the helicopter.
It's only a 40 minute drive to Bethesda and that is if you do it without a
police escort and have to make traffic stops. They would need even less
time with a police escort but we'll stick with the 40 minute time frame to
further give you the benefit of the doubt. That means when the helicopter
left Andrews, the ambulance would be at least half way to Bethesda with
just 20 minutes more needed to get there. If it took just ten minutes for
the helicopter to fly to Bethesda, the earliest the helicopter could have
arrived ahead of the ambulance was TEN MINUTES. Now if you don't agree
with any of the estimates I have made, feel free to plug in your own
numbers and show us how you can make this work. Of course we both know you
can't make it work and I'm betting you won't even try.

Was LBJ speaking right out front of the AF1 plane? Did he walk to
another point to talk to a crowd? What are the details? Was the crowd so
attentive to his message in these troubled times that they wouldn't notice
a cheap aluminum service module for the galley coming off the plane?

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech
All of the above was shown in statements and testimony of the men that
were there. And with Dennis David's statement, we know there was at least
a half hour between the 2 ambulance arrival and the 2 caskets. This has
all been proven to you so you can only be repeating the whole thing to
look good to anyone that is watching. As if you were the only LN in the
world!

There might well have been a shipping casket that arrived at the morgue in
a different ambulance that night but JFK's body was in the ornamental
casket from the time it left Andrews until it was removed at the morgue.
That was the only casket removed from AF1.

Oh? You personally stuck around and waited for hours to prove to
yourself that no other casket came out of AF1?

So once again you concoct a crazy theory and challenge me to disprove it
instead of accepting the responsibility of proving your own hypothesis.
Earlier in this post I have shown how it would be logistically impossible
to get the shipping casket to Bethesda 42 minutes ahead of the ambulance.
It's only a 40 minute drive tops and the ambulance would have had a
considerable head start.

Post by mainframetech
Wow! Such patience! Or
such bullshit. You don't have a clue whether another casket came out of
AF1 after the Bronze casket was sent on its way. But you'll go for any
silly business to try and save your failing case.

I have no evidence another casket came off of AF1 and neither do you. I am
aware of the logistical problems in trying to sneak a shipping casket
aboard AF1 at Love Field, switching the body from one casket to another
while JFK's closest aides were present, hiding the second casket on the
cramped quarters of AF1, and then sneaking the casket off of AF1 at
Andrews when there were numerous witnesses and cameras present for a
considerable time after the ambulance with the ornamental casket had
departed. That should be enough to convince any reasonable person this
tall tale could not be true but apparently that doesn't work for you.

You keep forgetting critical info so that you can pretend you have a
case. You don't. What if the casket was brought aboard AF1 BEFORE they
got there with the body from Dallas? And then was taken off with folks
around not knowing that it was a SHIPPING casket, and thinking that it was
a service module for the galley of AF1? All these things you don't think
about.

Chris

[Mark]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.
Chris

Holy smokes. Chris, you ought to write the Great American Novel based on
JFK's murder. Mark

[bigdog]

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.
Chris

Holy smokes. Chris, you ought to write the Great American Novel based on
JFK's murder. Mark

I think he already has. All we have to do is collate his posts over the
years and we would have a bestseller. We could even do multiple editions
since he keeps changing the location of his shooter.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by bigdog

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.
Chris

Holy smokes. Chris, you ought to write the Great American Novel based on
JFK's murder. Mark

I think he already has. All we have to do is collate his posts over the
years and we would have a bestseller. We could even do multiple editions
since he keeps changing the location of his shooter.

He's trying to keep pace with you WC defenders who keep changing the
frame for your ever evolving SBT.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.
Chris

Holy smokes. Chris, you ought to write the Great American Novel based on
JFK's murder. Mark

Lifton beat him to it, so now he's only a Liftonite.

[mainframetech]

Post by Mark

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.

I don't think we can let Jackie off the hook. She was the one who chose to
have the autopsy performed at Bethesda, a choice not normally granted to
the widow of a shooting victim. Suppose she had chosen Walter Reed or a
coroner in the DC area (which is what should have been done). What would
"they" have done. Or did "they" have medical examiners lined up to do the
dirty work wherever it was Jackie decided the autopsy would be
performed.

It was simple. She was offered a choice of Walter Reed or Bethesda.
Both were military hospitals which was the overriding factor. The call
was made to Humes and he got his instructions as to what to do. He and
Boswell were waiting on the loading dock when the body arrived from the
helicopter pad to use every minute they had before the family and the
empty casket arrived.
Chris

Holy smokes. Chris, you ought to write the Great American Novel based on
JFK's murder. Mark

While I made an educated guess as to the phone call that Humes
received, it was logical because they were waiting at the loading dock for
the body to arrive. A reasonable assumption.



https://ajmacdonaldjr.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/the-arrival-of-jfks-body-at-bethesda-naval-hospital-what-i-saw/

And:

"[David told Lifton in 1979 that both Dr. Humes and Dr. Boswell (the two
Navy pathologists who participated in the autopsy) had been present on the
loading dock, along with their commanding officer, Captain Stover, and
what he believed to be the Surgeons General of the Army and Air Force.]"

From: https://www.fff.org/explore-freedom/article/the-af1-tapes-and-subsequent-events-at-andrews-afb-on-november-22-1963-what-was-supposed-to-happen-vs-what-did-happen/

Chris

[mainframetech]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.

That's not the way I heard it at all. The body was to be gotten out
of Dallas and into the hands of the military pathologists, and Washington
was the place to do it. Earl Rose was not part of the plot, and if he
was, why would he fight to keep the body with him, when it was even better
to have it in a military setting? Lifton had begun the concern with a
plot with some amazing logical puzzle solving, but he left a lot of proofs
without backup. Douglas Horne, who spent years on the ARRB working with
witnesses, took up the story and provided many proofs for outstanding
problems, like the arrival time of the SHIPPING casket at Bethesda,

The closest I've seen of the casket switch was that it happened on
AF1, possibly when they called everyone forward to witness the swearing in
of LBJ. My own feeling is that one or more of the FBI or SS agents were
asked to help with the casket switch ostensibly to mislead the press away
from Jackie who was grief stricken. I'm sure any of the agents would have
helped out given that reason, and then kept quiet about it later. After
all, they were playing musical caskets with the body of the POTUS, and it
wouldn't be appreciated by the public.

If you look at a diagram of AF1 there is plenty of room to make the
switch, and it really would take only one or 2 men to do it:

Loading Image...

Now the casket is labeled as "coffin". And there is room for more than
one of them.

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.

Not really. I believe they knew ahead of time that they were going to
have to have military pathologists remove any bullets that would signal a
conspiracy. I don't know if they figured out the casket switch on the fly
or during their planning. But they figured out that the pathologists
would have more time with the body away from family and various agents if
they had a decoy to take them all away. That was the casket switch.

By making the casket switch and having everyone follow the empty
casket on the road by car, while the body went in the SHIPPING casket by
helicopter, they saved 42 minutes for the pathologists with the body
without family or agents in the way. A few people were left around the
morgue and they saw the clandestine work done on the body and spoke about
it under sworn testimony.

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.

No "smuggling" was necessary. The body went in a shipping casket by
helicopter to the Bethesda morgue and the arrival and the clandestine work
on the body has been documented in sworn testimony. The work was done by
Humes and Boswell, 2 of the pathologists. Witnesses were Edward Reed,
X-ray Technician, and Tom Robinson, Mortician, and Jerrol Custer was there
also though he isn't recorded as saying snything.

The removal of bullets and fragments and the modification of the body
wounds were done at Bethesda BEFORE the guests arrived for the scheduled
autopsy at 8:00pm. The body arrived by helicopter at 6:35pm.

Post by Steve M. Galbraith
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

It'as simpler than you're making it. The family was never part of any
plot, and the friends the same. At the most, a couple agents, of friends
on AF1 helped to put the body into the shipping casket from the Bronze
casket, but that's all they knew. None of them had anything to do with
any murder.

For further info, just ask.

Chris

[n***@gmail.com]

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

[mainframetech]

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

As a proud CT, I have checked Lifton's story out thoroughly, with the
added information and backup from Douglas Horne, who is now the 'keeper of
the flame' for the Lifton book story. It's far closer to the truth than
any of the theories you find in the WCR.

I wonder that LNs read of the documentation and the sworn testimonies
proving the Lifton theories, and then pretend it's all fantasy!

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

As a proud CT, I have checked Lifton's story out thoroughly, with the
added information and backup from Douglas Horne, who is now the 'keeper of
the flame' for the Lifton book story. It's far closer to the truth than
any of the theories you find in the WCR.

Hook, line, and sinker.

Post by mainframetech
I wonder that LNs read of the documentation and the sworn testimonies
proving the Lifton theories, and then pretend it's all fantasy!

Lifton's theories have not been proven any more than the existence of the
Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot has been proven. All fall under the same
category of folklore. Unlike Lifton's cockamamie story, Nessie and Bigfoot
could theoretically be true.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

As a proud CT, I have checked Lifton's story out thoroughly, with the
added information and backup from Douglas Horne, who is now the 'keeper of
the flame' for the Lifton book story. It's far closer to the truth than
any of the theories you find in the WCR.

Hook, line, and sinker.

Post by mainframetech
I wonder that LNs read of the documentation and the sworn testimonies
proving the Lifton theories, and then pretend it's all fantasy!

Lifton's theories have not been proven any more than the existence of the
Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot has been proven. All fall under the same
category of folklore. Unlike Lifton's cockamamie story, Nessie and Bigfoot
could theoretically be true.

WRONG as usual! There are no "theories" being presented here.
That's what you find in the WCR. The evidence in both Lifton's and
Horne's books are evidence of real events and proofs, not some cockamamie
phony government cover up.

Chris

[bigdog]

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

As a proud CT, I have checked Lifton's story out thoroughly, with the
added information and backup from Douglas Horne, who is now the 'keeper of
the flame' for the Lifton book story. It's far closer to the truth than
any of the theories you find in the WCR.

Hook, line, and sinker.

Post by mainframetech
I wonder that LNs read of the documentation and the sworn testimonies
proving the Lifton theories, and then pretend it's all fantasy!

Lifton's theories have not been proven any more than the existence of the
Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot has been proven. All fall under the same
category of folklore. Unlike Lifton's cockamamie story, Nessie and Bigfoot
could theoretically be true.

WRONG as usual! There are no "theories" being presented here.
That's what you find in the WCR. The evidence in both Lifton's and
Horne's books are evidence of real events and proofs, not some cockamamie
phony government cover up.

Claims made by witnesses don't prove anything unless you can prove the
claims are accurate. Good luck with that.

[mainframetech]

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by bigdog

Post by mainframetech

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

As a proud CT, I have checked Lifton's story out thoroughly, with the
added information and backup from Douglas Horne, who is now the 'keeper of
the flame' for the Lifton book story. It's far closer to the truth than
any of the theories you find in the WCR.

Hook, line, and sinker.

Post by mainframetech
I wonder that LNs read of the documentation and the sworn testimonies
proving the Lifton theories, and then pretend it's all fantasy!

Lifton's theories have not been proven any more than the existence of the
Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot has been proven. All fall under the same
category of folklore. Unlike Lifton's cockamamie story, Nessie and Bigfoot
could theoretically be true.

WRONG as usual! There are no "theories" being presented here.
That's what you find in the WCR. The evidence in both Lifton's and
Horne's books are evidence of real events and proofs, not some cockamamie
phony government cover up.

Claims made by witnesses don't prove anything unless you can prove the
claims are accurate. Good luck with that.

You mean like Howard Brennan, who had no corroboration from anyone?

Chris

[Spence]

Post by mainframetech

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

As a proud CT, I have checked Lifton's story out thoroughly, with the
added information and backup from Douglas Horne, who is now the 'keeper of
the flame' for the Lifton book story. It's far closer to the truth than
any of the theories you find in the WCR.
I wonder that LNs read of the documentation and the sworn testimonies
proving the Lifton theories, and then pretend it's all fantasy!
Chris

In other words, you have no rebuttal to BD's assertions.

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by Spence

Post by mainframetech

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

As a proud CT, I have checked Lifton's story out thoroughly, with the
added information and backup from Douglas Horne, who is now the 'keeper of
the flame' for the Lifton book story. It's far closer to the truth than
any of the theories you find in the WCR.
I wonder that LNs read of the documentation and the sworn testimonies
proving the Lifton theories, and then pretend it's all fantasy!
Chris

In other words, you have no rebuttal to BD's assertions.

You mean his straw man arguments?

[mainframetech]

Post by Spence

Post by mainframetech

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

As a proud CT, I have checked Lifton's story out thoroughly, with the
added information and backup from Douglas Horne, who is now the 'keeper of
the flame' for the Lifton book story. It's far closer to the truth than
any of the theories you find in the WCR.
I wonder that LNs read of the documentation and the sworn testimonies
proving the Lifton theories, and then pretend it's all fantasy!
Chris

In other words, you have no rebuttal to BD's assertions.

Don't be ridiculous! He has imaginings, not assertions. He has
opinions as you seem to have, which carry no weight here without backup of
some kind. My information has come mostly from sworn testimony and
documents, and if there is anything I say that you wonder about the backup
for, let me know and I will be glad to give you cites and links so you can
check it out. Let me know.

Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by mainframetech

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

As a proud CT, I have checked Lifton's story out thoroughly, with the
added information and backup from Douglas Horne, who is now the 'keeper of
the flame' for the Lifton book story. It's far closer to the truth than
any of the theories you find in the WCR.

But you've never talked to David in person yourself.
You've never talked to any other researcher in person.
But you READ SOMETHING SOMEWHERE.
And that makes you an expert.

Post by mainframetech
I wonder that LNs read of the documentation and the sworn testimonies
proving the Lifton theories, and then pretend it's all fantasy!
Chris

[Anthony Marsh]

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Steve M. Galbraith

Post by Mark
Those who believe in conspiracies in the death of the president condemn
Dallas as the epicenter of rightwing radicalism. Big Oil, the
Military-Industrial Complex, Goldwaterites, the Hunt brothers, and little
old ladies in combat boots who smacked Adlai in the head with a placard
protesting the existence of the U.N.
But let JFK's Secret Service bodyguards as well as Kenny O'Donnell, Larry
O'Brien, Dave Powers and Godfrey McHugh try to get his body and the former
First Lady out of Dallas and the CTs develop amnesia.
They can't be real, shocked, distraught humans who were honestly trying to
get the Kennedys out of what they now had good reason to believe was a
hostile, rifle-packing city.
That won't fit into a conspiracy scenario.
They are instead somehow part of a conspiracy that had to get the body out
of Dallas and onto AF-1 in order to let someone steal the body and alter
it to make it look like bullets came from Patsy-Oswald in the TSBD--or get
it back to Andrews and Bethesda Naval where Humes, Boswell and Finck were
waiting to trash their careers and names and commit treason to achieve the
same result as the Lifton/Horne/Mainframetech body snatchers.
Mark

Lifton's theory - if I recall it correctly - was that the body wasn't
supposed to be removed from Dallas and that the alteration/coverup was to
occur there, in Dallas. Apparently Rose, who would have performed the
autopsy, was "in" on the conspiracy.
Once control of the body was lost - when it was taken back to AF-1 - the
conspirators had to scramble with a backup plan to steal the body and
alter it.
Of course, this raises all kinds of incredible logistical and time
problems. Apparently "they" were quickly able to smuggle another casket
onto AF-1, hide it and then place JFK's body in that casket. And have a
team of doctors back in Washington ready to alter the wounds. Smuggle it
to them, alter things, bring it to Bethesda and on and on and on.
So, in Lifton's theory Jackie and the Kennedy people, e.g., Powers,
O'Donnell et al., were NOT part of the conspiracy.
Or something. It's quite a story to untangle.
?

Steve, I didn't intentionally ignore your post. You may be right. My
copy of BEST EVIDENCE is around here somewhere, but I can't find it
lately. Either way, Lifton's fantasy is just that. Even many CTs think
it's hogwash. Mark

A lot of it.

As I pointed out before:

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

Stop being silly. Everyone has been poisoned by Lifton's theory. It's very
easy to see the orientation of Fox 8 once you realize that they had to
pull the scalp down over the eyes to remove the brain. I have marked major
landmarks for you [in the captions of Tony's "fantasy" version of the F8
photo, seen HERE]. You can also read Dr. Lawrence Angel's report.

The bullet hole is on the FRONT of the head, not the BACK of the head.