Is anyone following the riots in Charlottesville?

[islander]

Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.

This is crazy!

[Gary]

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

Why is it when blacks do this -- it is their constitutional right. But when
whites do it -- it's terrible ! I tend to support their idea that a statue of
a great American -- Robert E Lee -- should not be removed from its place.

I wonder if the "protesters" will be allowed to rob and burn Korean stores like
minorities do ?

Actually -- I'm not a supporter of either group. I do not believe in white
supremacy. Neither I do not support blacks who want to re-write American
history. Or .... their white-trash friends.

[GLOBALIST]

Post by Gary

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

Why is it when blacks do this -- it is their constitutional right. But when
whites do it -- it's terrible ! I tend to support their idea that a statue of
a great American -- Robert E Lee -- should not be removed from its place.
I wonder if the "protesters" will be allowed to rob and burn Korean stores like
minorities do ?
Actually -- I'm not a supporter of either group. I do not believe in white
supremacy. Neither I do not support blacks who want to re-write American
history. Or .... their white-trash friends.

I agree with you Gary. Blacks tore the hell out
of Baltimore and Ferguson and routinely in Los Angeles.
But the news media will run with this and make it WWIII

[Jack Fate]

Post by Gary

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly
escalated into a battle between white supremacists and those
opposed to them. Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots
were seen carrying long guns. So far, no one has been killed.
Clearly the white supremacists were prepared for violence with
professional shields, pepper spray, clubs and other weapons. A
car was just driven into a group of counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

Why is it when blacks do this -- it is their constitutional right.
But when whites do it -- it's terrible ! I tend to support
their idea that a statue of a great American -- Robert E Lee --
should not be removed from its place.
I wonder if the "protesters" will be allowed to rob and burn
Korean stores like minorities do ?
Actually -- I'm not a supporter of either group. I do not
believe in white supremacy. Neither I do not support blacks who
want to re-write American history. Or .... their white-trash
friends.

I agree with you Gary. Blacks tore the hell out of Baltimore and
Ferguson and routinely in Los Angeles. But the news media will run
with this and make it WWIII

There's a difference between blacks wanting equal rights and white
supremacists wanting permission to be violent racists and bigots.
Course, what with you being an admitted racist and bigot, you support
them and put down blacks. In short, you're a low life asshole.

BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

[Emily]

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

[Jack Fate]

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and
there should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not.
There is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is
plenty of evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course
he couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for
it. I think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is
on what was his estate?

Oh so he was a rich racist asshole. Wow, so is Trump.

[Talis Mann]

Post by Jack Fate
Oh so he was a rich racist asshole.

"...but I will no longer be posting here. No one here is going to change
so, basically, I'm wasting the little time I have left by posting to
this obscure little group full of stupid bigoted and racist Trump
lovers."

[Tzatz Ziki]

Post by Jack Fate
Oh so he was a rich racist asshole.

"...but I will no longer be posting here. No one here is going to change
so, basically, I'm wasting the little time I have left by posting to
this obscure little group full of stupid bigoted and racist Trump
lovers."

[Gary]

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

People in the Media keep talking about "slavery". The monument has nothing to
do with slavery. It has to do with the men and women who waged an unsuccessful
attempt to leave the Union. Yes -- I think their decision was wrong. But like
millions of Southerners -- I am among the descendants of some of the 600,000
Americans who lost their life in that struggle. (About half were Southerners).
The statues and memorials remind us of them --- our ancestors ! Lee is the
epitome of those symbols. Most of those monuments were put up in the late
1800s. There is no reason to take them down now.

[islander]

Post by Gary

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

People in the Media keep talking about "slavery". The monument has nothing to
do with slavery. It has to do with the men and women who waged an unsuccessful
attempt to leave the Union. Yes -- I think their decision was wrong. But like
millions of Southerners -- I am among the descendants of some of the 600,000
Americans who lost their life in that struggle. (About half were Southerners).
The statues and memorials remind us of them --- our ancestors ! Lee is the
epitome of those symbols. Most of those monuments were put up in the late
1800s. There is no reason to take them down now.

The statue in question was not put up until 1924, 59 years after the war
ended.

[Emily]

Post by islander
The statue in question was not put up until 1924, 59 years after the war
ended.

That was the first time we could afford it. ;-(

[Indoarsman]

Yew ain't just awhistlin Dixie, Emily. -- BowTie

[islander]

Post by Emily

Post by islander
The statue in question was not put up until 1924, 59 years after the war
ended.

That was the first time we could afford it. ;-(

I'm now hearing that most of the monuments were installed in the '60s in
reaction to the civil rights movement and legislation of that time. To
be fair, I have not been able to verify that.

[Emily]

Post by islander

Post by Emily

Post by islander
The statue in question was not put up until 1924, 59 years after the war
ended.

That was the first time we could afford it. ;-(

I'm now hearing that most of the monuments were installed in the '60s in
reaction to the civil rights movement and legislation of that time. To
be fair, I have not been able to verify that.

I don't believe that's true but I could be wrong. This web site has a
list, of amazing length, of Confederate statues and it mentions when
some of them were erected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

A very cursory examination of the list shows that most of the ones in
the South were erected in the late 1800s or early 1900s. The ones out
west were erected later. I was frankly surprised that there are
Confederate monuments in so many places outside the South. There's
even one in LA - Hollywood Forever Cemetery, Los Angeles, California.

I've tried to look at this question unemotionally but have failed. I
guess the southern in my soul is just too great. I don't want the
statues to come down. I don't believe they're hurting anyone and I
don't think their removal will really make things better for black
people. It'll just make them feel that they've won a battle but what
really is the reward?

After the statues come down, then we'll have to rename at least half
the things in the south, post offices, libraries, streets, schools,
maybe even towns. Eventually those things will probably just have
numbers for names, like PS 4, route 16. Or maybe we'll just go
completely overboard and name everything after Martin Luther King, Jr.

[islander]

Post by Emily

Post by islander

Post by Emily

Post by islander
The statue in question was not put up until 1924, 59 years after the war
ended.

That was the first time we could afford it. ;-(

I'm now hearing that most of the monuments were installed in the '60s in
reaction to the civil rights movement and legislation of that time. To
be fair, I have not been able to verify that.

I don't believe that's true but I could be wrong. This web site has a
list, of amazing length, of Confederate statues and it mentions when
some of them were erected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
A very cursory examination of the list shows that most of the ones in
the South were erected in the late 1800s or early 1900s. The ones out
west were erected later. I was frankly surprised that there are
Confederate monuments in so many places outside the South. There's
even one in LA - Hollywood Forever Cemetery, Los Angeles, California.
I've tried to look at this question unemotionally but have failed. I
guess the southern in my soul is just too great. I don't want the
statues to come down. I don't believe they're hurting anyone and I
don't think their removal will really make things better for black
people. It'll just make them feel that they've won a battle but what
really is the reward?
After the statues come down, then we'll have to rename at least half
the things in the south, post offices, libraries, streets, schools,
maybe even towns. Eventually those things will probably just have
numbers for names, like PS 4, route 16. Or maybe we'll just go
completely overboard and name everything after Martin Luther King, Jr.

There are things in our history which we might wish to forget and the
question is, IMV, whether these monuments praise those things or condemn
them. Glorifying the role of the confederacy in the civil war seems to
me to be the wrong message to convey. One of the monuments honoring
those who died in a war which conveys a better message is the Vietnam
memorial.

"It has helped people separate the warrior from the war, and it has
helped a nation to heal."

I have visited the wall a number of times and have always found it to be
a humbling experience.

[El Castor]

Post by Emily

Post by islander

Post by Emily

Post by islander
The statue in question was not put up until 1924, 59 years after the war
ended.

That was the first time we could afford it. ;-(

I'm now hearing that most of the monuments were installed in the '60s in
reaction to the civil rights movement and legislation of that time. To
be fair, I have not been able to verify that.

I don't believe that's true but I could be wrong. This web site has a
list, of amazing length, of Confederate statues and it mentions when
some of them were erected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
A very cursory examination of the list shows that most of the ones in
the South were erected in the late 1800s or early 1900s. The ones out
west were erected later. I was frankly surprised that there are
Confederate monuments in so many places outside the South. There's
even one in LA - Hollywood Forever Cemetery, Los Angeles, California.
I've tried to look at this question unemotionally but have failed. I
guess the southern in my soul is just too great. I don't want the
statues to come down. I don't believe they're hurting anyone and I
don't think their removal will really make things better for black
people. It'll just make them feel that they've won a battle but what
really is the reward?
After the statues come down, then we'll have to rename at least half
the things in the south, post offices, libraries, streets, schools,
maybe even towns. Eventually those things will probably just have
numbers for names, like PS 4, route 16. Or maybe we'll just go
completely overboard and name everything after Martin Luther King, Jr.

At one time I lived on Grove Street in Berkeley -- until they renamed
it Martin Luther King Jr Way. Try writing that on an envelope. (-8

[Emily]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:44:14 -0700, El Castor

Post by El Castor

Post by Emily
After the statues come down, then we'll have to rename at least half
the things in the south, post offices, libraries, streets, schools,
maybe even towns. Eventually those things will probably just have
numbers for names, like PS 4, route 16. Or maybe we'll just go
completely overboard and name everything after Martin Luther King, Jr.

At one time I lived on Grove Street in Berkeley -- until they renamed
it Martin Luther King Jr Way. Try writing that on an envelope. (-8

My cousin, who lives in Richmond, told me this morning that they'd
renamed the school her kids attended from Byrd Middle School to
Quioccasin Middle School, apparently because Governor Byrd was against
desegregation.

Let's just stop fiddling around and rename the country The Fractured
States of America.

[Gary]

Post by Emily

Post by islander

Post by Emily

Post by islander
The statue in question was not put up until 1924, 59 years after the war
ended.

That was the first time we could afford it. ;-(

I'm now hearing that most of the monuments were installed in the '60s in
reaction to the civil rights movement and legislation of that time. To
be fair, I have not been able to verify that.

I don't believe that's true but I could be wrong. This web site has a
list, of amazing length, of Confederate statues and it mentions when
some of them were erected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
A very cursory examination of the list shows that most of the ones in
the South were erected in the late 1800s or early 1900s. The ones out
west were erected later. I was frankly surprised that there are
Confederate monuments in so many places outside the South. There's
even one in LA - Hollywood Forever Cemetery, Los Angeles, California.
I've tried to look at this question unemotionally but have failed. I
guess the southern in my soul is just too great. I don't want the
statues to come down. I don't believe they're hurting anyone and I
don't think their removal will really make things better for black
people. It'll just make them feel that they've won a battle but what
really is the reward?
After the statues come down, then we'll have to rename at least half
the things in the south, post offices, libraries, streets, schools,
maybe even towns. Eventually those things will probably just have
numbers for names, like PS 4, route 16. Or maybe we'll just go
completely overboard and name everything after Martin Luther King, Jr.

We have a county in Georgia which is named for Robert E Lee's father. Who was
Henry Lee 3rd. Known as -- "Light-Horse Harry" . Lee was a rich planter and
owned a bunch of slaves. There is a town in the county named Leesburg.

I wonder if the blacks will demand it be destroyed ? Here is the 2010
population of Lee county: 28,298 people

76.9% white, 18.6% black or African American, 2.2% Asian, 0.3%

[Gary]

Post by islander

Post by Gary

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

People in the Media keep talking about "slavery". The monument has nothing to
do with slavery. It has to do with the men and women who waged an unsuccessful
attempt to leave the Union. Yes -- I think their decision was wrong. But like
millions of Southerners -- I am among the descendants of some of the 600,000
Americans who lost their life in that struggle. (About half were Southerners).
The statues and memorials remind us of them --- our ancestors ! Lee is the
epitome of those symbols. Most of those monuments were put up in the late
1800s. There is no reason to take them down now.

The statue in question was not put up until 1924, 59 years after the war
ended.

Or 93 years ago. Back before most of us retirees were born. Why the sudden
hatred of a man who served his state.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

Deliberately and outspokenly chosen as revenge against Lee.

[islander]

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

Yes, I lived for a while in Roslyn, VA not far from Arlington Cemetery.
I also lived for a while near the Custis-Lee mansion. Also for a while
within walking distance of the Montpelier mansion in Maryland which was
once a 9,000 acre plantation with slaves. That part of the country has
more than enough questionable history! As to the statue, put it in a
museum which is what the Charlottesville town council intended.

[Emily]

Post by islander

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

Yes, I lived for a while in Roslyn, VA not far from Arlington Cemetery.
I also lived for a while near the Custis-Lee mansion. Also for a while
within walking distance of the Montpelier mansion in Maryland which was
once a 9,000 acre plantation with slaves. That part of the country has
more than enough questionable history! As to the statue, put it in a
museum which is what the Charlottesville town council intended.

Montpelier is in Orange County, Virginia. If you saw one in MD, it's
an imposter.

[islander]

Post by Emily

Post by islander

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

Yes, I lived for a while in Roslyn, VA not far from Arlington Cemetery.
I also lived for a while near the Custis-Lee mansion. Also for a while
within walking distance of the Montpelier mansion in Maryland which was
once a 9,000 acre plantation with slaves. That part of the country has
more than enough questionable history! As to the statue, put it in a
museum which is what the Charlottesville town council intended.

Montpelier is in Orange County, Virginia. If you saw one in MD, it's
an imposter.

It wouldn't be the first time! :)
http://history.pgparks.com/sites_and_museums/Montpelier_Mansion.htm

[Emily]

Post by islander

Post by Emily

Post by islander

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

Yes, I lived for a while in Roslyn, VA not far from Arlington Cemetery.
I also lived for a while near the Custis-Lee mansion. Also for a while
within walking distance of the Montpelier mansion in Maryland which was
once a 9,000 acre plantation with slaves. That part of the country has
more than enough questionable history! As to the statue, put it in a
museum which is what the Charlottesville town council intended.

Montpelier is in Orange County, Virginia. If you saw one in MD, it's
an imposter.

It wouldn't be the first time! :)
http://history.pgparks.com/sites_and_museums/Montpelier_Mansion.htm

I stand corrected. I foolishly thought you mean the home of James
Madison, one of eight Presidents born in Virginia. ;-)

[billbowden]

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

Yes, I lived for a while in Roslyn, VA not far from Arlington Cemetery. I
also lived for a while near the Custis-Lee mansion. Also for a while
within walking distance of the Montpelier mansion in Maryland which was
once a 9,000 acre plantation with slaves. That part of the country has
more than enough questionable history! As to the statue, put it in a
museum which is what the Charlottesville town council intended.

The town council intended to make a profit from the sale of the statue.

http://www.whsv.com/content/news/419721243.html
Councilors voted 3-2 to list the monument as a 'request for bid,' or RFB.

This comes after the council voted 3-2 earlier this year to remove the
statue, citing residents who feel it is culturally offensive and a symbol of
white supremacy.

The sale will also be advertised to places of historical importance, and
councilors agreed this was the best option with the statue to avoid using a
lot of taxpayer money.

Bundled with restrictions, Councilor Kristin Szakos' motion includes the
sale of the statue will not be sold to someone who will promote any kind of
hurtful ideology.

The buyer will also be responsible for paying for any damage caused to Lee
Park or the statue while moving it.

The motion also stated if council does not find an appropriate buyer, it
could be donated.

Szakos said she does not look to make any kind of profit off of the statue,
if any at all.

Which of course is BS.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

Regardless of how great a man or general he was, the cause he was
fighting for was the perpetuation of slavery (whether that motivated him
or not). His statues belong in museums.

[Gary]

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Emily

Post by Jack Fate
BTW, Robert E. Lee lost. He did nothing good for the country and there
should be no statue for this racist asshole of a "general".

Well, there is a statue and many people want it to stay there, me
included. Lee was a man of honor, whether you think so or not. There
is no evidence that he was a racist asshole. But there is plenty of
evidence that he was a general, and a great one. Of course he
couldn't win the war; he knew that before he ever signed up for it. I
think he was penalized more than enough by having his estate
confiscated. You are aware, are you not, that Arlington Cemetery is on
what was his estate?

Regardless of how great a man or general he was, the cause he was
fighting for was the perpetuation of slavery (whether that motivated him
or not). His statues belong in museums.

The secession was wrong -- yes. But still ... Have you ever heard the old
saying :

"..My country (state) right or wrong..."

Back in 1860 -- people were closer to -- and owed their allegiance to their
state. Lee did what any patriot would have done.

[Jack Fate]

Lee did what any traitor would have done.

I corrected your post for you. You're welcome.

[Gary]

Post by Jack Fate

Lee did what any traitor would have done.

I corrected your post for you. You're welcome.

Yesterday's hero is today's traitor. Actually -- I have no use for Lee or the
Confederacy. They caused a lot of hardship for my ancestors. Two were killed
and several lost their land and other assets. My poor Great-great-grandfahter
had a nice farm with about 500 acres. He had 20 slaves (servants) to help him
raise cotton. He looked up one morning and what did he see ? All of his
agricultural assistants running to meet the Yankee army. He could not raise
200 acres of cotton by himself -- so he lost it all !

Had there been no secession, slavery in America would not have been abolished
til about 1900. And I would have inherited more !

[Talis Mann]

Post by Jack Fate
I corrected your post for you.

"...but I will no longer be posting here. No one here is going to change
so, basically, I'm wasting the little time I have left by posting to
this obscure little group full of stupid bigoted and racist Trump
lovers."

[El Castor]

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

[Gary]

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

To tell you the truth -- as a seventh generation Southerner, whose
ancestors fought and died for the Confederacy -- I've never cared much for Lee.
Nor the Confederacy.

However -- it was a part of Southern history. And as such the good people
descended from it have a right to keep their history and the public memorials of
that tragic war.

Lee was a great man. And his place n history should not be destroyed simply
because the negroes do not like him. He was a Virginian. He fought to protect
his state. In those days -- men felt more patriotism to the state than to the
flimsy Union. So -- Lee acted as a man.

As I posted elsewhere :

"... If the Union is dissolved and the Government disrupted, I shall return to
my native State and share the miseries of my people, and, save in defense will
draw my sword on none..." --- Robert E Lee.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee

[islander]

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

White Nationalists or White Supremacists? What is the difference? They
are all part of the Alt-Right, given legitimacy by the rhetoric of the
Trump administration. This is not about free speech. As to the
"historic" value of the 1,000 or so Confederate monuments in the south,
we all know what they celebrate and it is not commendable. Move them
into museums where they belong. This was the intent of the city council
when they voted to remove the Lee statue. Not much to be proud of in
Southern history!

[El Castor]

Post by islander

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

White Nationalists or White Supremacists? What is the difference? They
are all part of the Alt-Right, given legitimacy by the rhetoric of the
Trump administration. This is not about free speech. As to the
"historic" value of the 1,000 or so Confederate monuments in the south,
we all know what they celebrate and it is not commendable. Move them
into museums where they belong. This was the intent of the city council
when they voted to remove the Lee statue. Not much to be proud of in
Southern history!

When rioters fight the police and repeatedly burn stores in Ferguson,
it's OK? When UC students break windows and burn cars to prevent a
conservative woman from speaking, it's OK? When Black Lives Matter
demonstrations turn violent, it's OK?

If this is not OK ..
Loading Image...
How about this ...
Loading Image...

[islander]

Post by El Castor

Post by islander

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

White Nationalists or White Supremacists? What is the difference? They
are all part of the Alt-Right, given legitimacy by the rhetoric of the
Trump administration. This is not about free speech. As to the
"historic" value of the 1,000 or so Confederate monuments in the south,
we all know what they celebrate and it is not commendable. Move them
into museums where they belong. This was the intent of the city council
when they voted to remove the Lee statue. Not much to be proud of in
Southern history!

When rioters fight the police and repeatedly burn stores in Ferguson,
it's OK? When UC students break windows and burn cars to prevent a
conservative woman from speaking, it's OK? When Black Lives Matter
demonstrations turn violent, it's OK?
If this is not OK ..
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/08/12/15/charlottesville-militia.jpg
How about this ...
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg

You have a really difficult time sticking to the topic, don't you?

[El Castor]

Post by islander

Post by El Castor

Post by islander

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

White Nationalists or White Supremacists? What is the difference? They
are all part of the Alt-Right, given legitimacy by the rhetoric of the
Trump administration. This is not about free speech. As to the
"historic" value of the 1,000 or so Confederate monuments in the south,
we all know what they celebrate and it is not commendable. Move them
into museums where they belong. This was the intent of the city council
when they voted to remove the Lee statue. Not much to be proud of in
Southern history!

When rioters fight the police and repeatedly burn stores in Ferguson,
it's OK? When UC students break windows and burn cars to prevent a
conservative woman from speaking, it's OK? When Black Lives Matter
demonstrations turn violent, it's OK?
If this is not OK ..
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/08/12/15/charlottesville-militia.jpg
How about this ...
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg

You have a really difficult time sticking to the topic, don't you?

Should the Jefferson Memorial be dismantled? (-8

[islander]

Post by El Castor

Post by islander

Post by El Castor

Post by islander

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

White Nationalists or White Supremacists? What is the difference? They
are all part of the Alt-Right, given legitimacy by the rhetoric of the
Trump administration. This is not about free speech. As to the
"historic" value of the 1,000 or so Confederate monuments in the south,
we all know what they celebrate and it is not commendable. Move them
into museums where they belong. This was the intent of the city council
when they voted to remove the Lee statue. Not much to be proud of in
Southern history!

When rioters fight the police and repeatedly burn stores in Ferguson,
it's OK? When UC students break windows and burn cars to prevent a
conservative woman from speaking, it's OK? When Black Lives Matter
demonstrations turn violent, it's OK?
If this is not OK ..
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/08/12/15/charlottesville-militia.jpg
How about this ...
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg

You have a really difficult time sticking to the topic, don't you?

Should the Jefferson Memorial be dismantled? (-8

QED

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

[El Castor]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
Loading Image...

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Ted Cruz speaks for me on this one:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

[PJay OD]

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

8/12/17: Anti-fascist protester peacefully protesting in Charlottesville VA

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/08/12/22/43327C1800000578-4783914-image-a-34_1502573737980.jpg

[Gary]

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Ted Cruz says:

"...The Nazis, the KKK, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all
of us have a moral obligation to speak out against the lies, bigotry,
anti-Semitism, and hatred that they propagate..."

No, no Ted ! Not "all of us". Only piles of shit like you who want to be
president.

[El Castor]

Post by Gary

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

"...The Nazis, the KKK, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all
of us have a moral obligation to speak out against the lies, bigotry,
anti-Semitism, and hatred that they propagate..."
No, no Ted ! Not "all of us". Only piles of shit like you who want to be
president.

Of course we should speak out against the KKK and anti-Semitism, but
we should also speak out against the lefties who riot to prevent
conservative ideas from being spoken, or Blacks who loot liquor stores
because Michael Brown got what he had coming.

[Gary]

Post by El Castor

Post by Gary

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

"...The Nazis, the KKK, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all
of us have a moral obligation to speak out against the lies, bigotry,
anti-Semitism, and hatred that they propagate..."
No, no Ted ! Not "all of us". Only piles of shit like you who want to be
president.

Of course we should speak out against the KKK and anti-Semitism, but

I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.
No matter how true our argument is --- it will be labeled "anti-semitic".

Post by El Castor
we should also speak out against the lefties who riot to prevent
conservative ideas from being spoken, or Blacks who loot liquor stores
because Michael Brown got what he had coming.

I agree. But the Media will not permit it. Black thugs are always right --
and conservative whites are always wrong.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by Gary

Post by El Castor

Post by Gary

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

"...The Nazis, the KKK, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all
of us have a moral obligation to speak out against the lies, bigotry,
anti-Semitism, and hatred that they propagate..."
No, no Ted ! Not "all of us". Only piles of shit like you who want to be
president.

Of course we should speak out against the KKK and anti-Semitism, but

I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Post by Gary
No matter how true our argument is --- it will be labeled "anti-semitic".

Post by El Castor
we should also speak out against the lefties who riot to prevent
conservative ideas from being spoken, or Blacks who loot liquor stores
because Michael Brown got what he had coming.

I agree. But the Media will not permit it. Black thugs are always right --
and conservative whites are always wrong.

[El Castor]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:53:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary

Post by El Castor

Post by Gary

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

"...The Nazis, the KKK, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all
of us have a moral obligation to speak out against the lies, bigotry,
anti-Semitism, and hatred that they propagate..."
No, no Ted ! Not "all of us". Only piles of shit like you who want to be
president.

Of course we should speak out against the KKK and anti-Semitism, but

I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Gary needs to accept the fact that Jews are smarter than he is --
that's why they are Jews. Back in the day, I was sitting in a bar in
San Francisco waiting to meet a girl after work. Two guys, a couple of
stools to my left, were talking. One was ranting on and on about how
he hated Jews, and his boss, whose name was Rosenbaum, was one of the
worst! The other guy, who had been silent, finally says "My name is
Rosenbaum". (-8

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary
No matter how true our argument is --- it will be labeled "anti-semitic".

Post by El Castor
we should also speak out against the lefties who riot to prevent
conservative ideas from being spoken, or Blacks who loot liquor stores
because Michael Brown got what he had coming.

I agree. But the Media will not permit it. Black thugs are always right --
and conservative whites are always wrong.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:53:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary

Post by El Castor

Post by Gary

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

"...The Nazis, the KKK, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all
of us have a moral obligation to speak out against the lies, bigotry,
anti-Semitism, and hatred that they propagate..."
No, no Ted ! Not "all of us". Only piles of shit like you who want to be
president.

Of course we should speak out against the KKK and anti-Semitism, but

I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Gary needs to accept the fact that Jews are smarter than he is --

It's not about intelligence. It's about bigotry. You should really
condemn Gary's antisemitism.

Post by El Castor
that's why they are Jews. Back in the day, I was sitting in a bar in
San Francisco waiting to meet a girl after work. Two guys, a couple of
stools to my left, were talking. One was ranting on and on about how
he hated Jews, and his boss, whose name was Rosenbaum, was one of the
worst! The other guy, who had been silent, finally says "My name is
Rosenbaum". (-8

[El Castor]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:17:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:53:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary

Post by El Castor

Post by Gary

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

"...The Nazis, the KKK, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all
of us have a moral obligation to speak out against the lies, bigotry,
anti-Semitism, and hatred that they propagate..."
No, no Ted ! Not "all of us". Only piles of shit like you who want to be
president.

Of course we should speak out against the KKK and anti-Semitism, but

I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Gary needs to accept the fact that Jews are smarter than he is --

It's not about intelligence. It's about bigotry. You should really
condemn Gary's antisemitism.

Anti-semitism, to some degree, is as common as you might imagine. My
father was, ahem, somewhat that way, although short of the guy in the
bar. He owned a store specializing in curtains, drapes, and furniture.
Some of his customers were Jewish, and well uh, let's be honest about
this, they often were shrewd and difficult bargainers. One day a rabbi
and his wife came in, and my dad thought to himself, oh no this is the
head guy and he is going to be tough! So, on those things where he had
some leeway he jacked up the price to give himself room to come down.
He presented them with the inflated price, and the rabbi said, "We
will take it". Believe it or not, that incident bothered him the rest
of his life.

Every day I hear liberals characterize conservatives (of which I am
one) as greedy, bigoted, hate mongers -- and it doesn't stop there.
So, although I don't agree with Gary on everything, I am not going to
jump on him while liberals in and out of this group spew hate with
impunity -- and seldom, if ever, correct each other. (-8

BTW -- Speaking of prejudice, last night I saw a good movie about the
Armenian holocaust -- The Promise. Not streaming as far as I know, but
Netflix has the disk. I doubt it made it to the theaters in Turkey.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
that's why they are Jews. Back in the day, I was sitting in a bar in
San Francisco waiting to meet a girl after work. Two guys, a couple of
stools to my left, were talking. One was ranting on and on about how
he hated Jews, and his boss, whose name was Rosenbaum, was one of the
worst! The other guy, who had been silent, finally says "My name is
Rosenbaum". (-8

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:17:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:53:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

{snip}

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary
I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Gary needs to accept the fact that Jews are smarter than he is --

It's not about intelligence. It's about bigotry. You should really
condemn Gary's antisemitism.

Anti-semitism, to some degree, is as common as you might imagine. My
father was, ahem, somewhat that way, although short of the guy in the
bar. He owned a store specializing in curtains, drapes, and furniture.
Some of his customers were Jewish, and well uh, let's be honest about
this, they often were shrewd and difficult bargainers. One day a rabbi
and his wife came in, and my dad thought to himself, oh no this is the
head guy and he is going to be tough! So, on those things where he had
some leeway he jacked up the price to give himself room to come down.
He presented them with the inflated price, and the rabbi said, "We
will take it". Believe it or not, that incident bothered him the rest
of his life.
Every day I hear liberals characterize conservatives (of which I am
one) as greedy, bigoted, hate mongers -- and it doesn't stop there.
So, although I don't agree with Gary on everything, I am not going to
jump on him while liberals in and out of this group spew hate with
impunity -- and seldom, if ever, correct each other. (-8

You are acting just like Trump is on Charlottesville and should be just
as strongly condemned (from the left, right and middle) for your statements.

[El Castor]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:49:52 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:17:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:53:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

{snip}

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary
I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Gary needs to accept the fact that Jews are smarter than he is --

It's not about intelligence. It's about bigotry. You should really
condemn Gary's antisemitism.

Anti-semitism, to some degree, is as common as you might imagine. My
father was, ahem, somewhat that way, although short of the guy in the
bar. He owned a store specializing in curtains, drapes, and furniture.
Some of his customers were Jewish, and well uh, let's be honest about
this, they often were shrewd and difficult bargainers. One day a rabbi
and his wife came in, and my dad thought to himself, oh no this is the
head guy and he is going to be tough! So, on those things where he had
some leeway he jacked up the price to give himself room to come down.
He presented them with the inflated price, and the rabbi said, "We
will take it". Believe it or not, that incident bothered him the rest
of his life.
Every day I hear liberals characterize conservatives (of which I am
one) as greedy, bigoted, hate mongers -- and it doesn't stop there.
So, although I don't agree with Gary on everything, I am not going to
jump on him while liberals in and out of this group spew hate with
impunity -- and seldom, if ever, correct each other. (-8

You are acting just like Trump is on Charlottesville and should be just
as strongly condemned (from the left, right and middle) for your statements.

And when will you be condemning those from your side of the aisle for
flinging around the bigot word? So go after Gary, if you wish, you
won't get an argument from me. I will go on singing the praises of
Ashkenazi Jews and their contributions to society, but that will have
to be enough for you, and if it isn't, too bad.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:49:52 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:17:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:53:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

{snip}

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary
I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Gary needs to accept the fact that Jews are smarter than he is --

It's not about intelligence. It's about bigotry. You should really
condemn Gary's antisemitism.

Anti-semitism, to some degree, is as common as you might imagine. My
father was, ahem, somewhat that way, although short of the guy in the
bar. He owned a store specializing in curtains, drapes, and furniture.
Some of his customers were Jewish, and well uh, let's be honest about
this, they often were shrewd and difficult bargainers. One day a rabbi
and his wife came in, and my dad thought to himself, oh no this is the
head guy and he is going to be tough! So, on those things where he had
some leeway he jacked up the price to give himself room to come down.
He presented them with the inflated price, and the rabbi said, "We
will take it". Believe it or not, that incident bothered him the rest
of his life.
Every day I hear liberals characterize conservatives (of which I am
one) as greedy, bigoted, hate mongers -- and it doesn't stop there.
So, although I don't agree with Gary on everything, I am not going to
jump on him while liberals in and out of this group spew hate with
impunity -- and seldom, if ever, correct each other. (-8

You are acting just like Trump is on Charlottesville and should be just
as strongly condemned (from the left, right and middle) for your statements.

And when will you be condemning those from your side of the aisle for
flinging around the bigot word?

Got any examples I should pass judgment on? I will give you one right
away. Gary is a bigot.

[Gary]

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 07:49:52 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:17:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:53:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

{snip}

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary
I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Gary needs to accept the fact that Jews are smarter than he is --

It's not about intelligence. It's about bigotry. You should really
condemn Gary's antisemitism.

Anti-semitism, to some degree, is as common as you might imagine. My
father was, ahem, somewhat that way, although short of the guy in the
bar. He owned a store specializing in curtains, drapes, and furniture.
Some of his customers were Jewish, and well uh, let's be honest about
this, they often were shrewd and difficult bargainers. One day a rabbi
and his wife came in, and my dad thought to himself, oh no this is the
head guy and he is going to be tough! So, on those things where he had
some leeway he jacked up the price to give himself room to come down.
He presented them with the inflated price, and the rabbi said, "We
will take it". Believe it or not, that incident bothered him the rest
of his life.
Every day I hear liberals characterize conservatives (of which I am
one) as greedy, bigoted, hate mongers -- and it doesn't stop there.
So, although I don't agree with Gary on everything, I am not going to
jump on him while liberals in and out of this group spew hate with
impunity -- and seldom, if ever, correct each other. (-8

You are acting just like Trump is on Charlottesville and should be just
as strongly condemned (from the left, right and middle) for your statements.

And when will you be condemning those from your side of the aisle for
flinging around the bigot word?

Got any examples I should pass judgment on? I will give you one right
away. Gary is a bigot.

And .. a very happy and proud one.

"...They call us bigots harsh and stern
Because we dare protest.
Those sacred rights and liberties
Which they themselves neglect..."

Like -- preferring white people to ... "others".

[Gary]

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:17:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:53:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary
I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Gary needs to accept the fact that Jews are smarter than he is --

It's not about intelligence. It's about bigotry. You should really
condemn Gary's antisemitism.

Anti-semitism, to some degree, is as common as you might imagine. My
father was, ahem, somewhat that way, although short of the guy in the
bar. He owned a store specializing in curtains, drapes, and furniture.
Some of his customers were Jewish, and well uh, let's be honest about
this, they often were shrewd and difficult bargainers. One day a rabbi
and his wife came in, and my dad thought to himself, oh no this is the
head guy and he is going to be tough! So, on those things where he had
some leeway he jacked up the price to give himself room to come down.
He presented them with the inflated price, and the rabbi said, "We
will take it". Believe it or not, that incident bothered him the rest
of his life.
Every day I hear liberals characterize conservatives (of which I am
one) as greedy, bigoted, hate mongers -- and it doesn't stop there.
So, although I don't agree with Gary on everything, I am not going to
jump on him while liberals in and out of this group spew hate with
impunity -- and seldom, if ever, correct each other. (-8
BTW -- Speaking of prejudice, last night I saw a good movie about the
Armenian holocaust -- The Promise. Not streaming as far as I know, but
Netflix has the disk. I doubt it made it to the theaters in Turkey.

I've heard people talk a lot about "anti-semitism" -- but I have never
personally ran up on it. Growing up in a Southern home -- people sometimes
think I am. But I never heard any of my relatives say anything bad about Jews.
If somebody thought they got a bad deal from Josh Goldstein -- they did not cuss
Jews. They cussed Josh. Just like they would and Englishman.

My grandfather -- whose grandparents had owned slaves -- thought Jews were good
people, for having preserved their religion for 4,000 years. (And he was not
religious).

[Emily]

Post by Gary
I've heard people talk a lot about "anti-semitism" -- but I have never
personally ran up on it. Growing up in a Southern home -- people sometimes
think I am. But I never heard any of my relatives say anything bad about Jews.

The only time I ever heard a bad word about Jews from any of my
relatives was one time when the football fans in Baltimore booed
somebody and my Daddy, who was outraged over the booing, said "what
can you expect of a town full of Jews and niggers?" I was so shocked
I was speechless.

[Gary]

Post by Emily

Post by Gary
I've heard people talk a lot about "anti-semitism" -- but I have never
personally ran up on it. Growing up in a Southern home -- people sometimes
think I am. But I never heard any of my relatives say anything bad about Jews.

The only time I ever heard a bad word about Jews from any of my
relatives was one time when the football fans in Baltimore booed
somebody and my Daddy, who was outraged over the booing, said "what
can you expect of a town full of Jews and niggers?" I was so shocked
I was speechless.

It's only been in recent years that I have realized that people have the idea
that the South is anti-semitic. I suppose that is something else fed to them
by the Media in general and journalists in particular.

Heck -- in my younger days, I had a doctor for several years and never even
realized he was Jewish. Until he mentioned it in passing. And I sure missed
him when he retired and moved North. (That was in the Atlanta suburbs)

In my early 30s, I worked for a local Atlanta company that was owned by a
Jewish man. I became friends with his son. I invited him to my annual family
reunion. He enjoyed it and the stories about the ante-bellum South. Back then
-- I didn't think anymore about a person being Jewish than I did a person being
Baptist or Methodist. That was their religion. Most importantly they were
Americans. (And some were even Southerners!)

I will be honest and admit the South I grew up in -- had no use for blacks. But
the attitude towards Jews was no different from any other white neighbors who
lived down the street. I suppose the Media has the idea that an area that
dislikes one minority -- dislikes them all.

[Gary]

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 13:53:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary
I've known -- and heard of some pretty good men who were in the KKK. And every
once in a while we need to disagree with -- and criticize the Jewish position.

Jeff. Perhaps you should stop aligning yourself with shit like Gary
("Jewish position", ugh!). All that gets you is need to wipe yourself
off with toilet paper.

Gary needs to accept the fact that Jews are smarter than he is --

It's not about intelligence. It's about bigotry. You should really
condemn Gary's antisemitism.

Anti-semitism ? There is nobody here who likes and respects Jews (as a group)
any more than I do. However -- that does not mean they are above criticism
when they take the wrong side of an issue. BTW, I've been posting here for
12 or 14 years. This is the first time I have ever had a personal insult
directed at me. "shit like Gary" ? Did you learn that at the synagog ?

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Actually, of course, the USA was NOT

built on fundamental truths, none more central
than the proposition “that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
with certain unalienable Rights, that among
these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

It was built including slavery. That's been "corrected"
since, but it wasn't corrected at the time of the founding.
That's far too big an exception just to quietly set aside,
and unfortunately it's not the only exception. The noble
words are really just mythology.

[b***@gmail.com]

It (The U.S._) was built including slavery. That's been "corrected"
since, but it wasn't corrected at the time of the founding.
That's far too big an exception just to quietly set aside,
and unfortunately it's not the only exception. The noble
words are really just mythology.

Bill Moyers addressed the conundrum of Jefferson in a recent
discussion, who owned about 200 slaves at the time and never
set any of them free, even upon his death. Jefferson's words
certainly had no reference to black people, of whom the majority
at that time had no place in American society except as property.

Moyers had no answer as to how Jefferson could hold two diametrically
ideas at the same time. A mystery. I don't find it mysterious at all.

A good current example is the scientist who believes in a God and, as
Globy likes to point out, there are many 'scientists' who have a belief
in the supernatural. Carefully examined, the idea of a transcendental
being populated with definite properties is baffling. Even agnosticism
is unteneable but perhaps more satisfying than nihilism.

The noble words (all men are created equal...) are really just
mythology.

Perhaps, but they are noble and worth pursuing I think.

[Gary]

Post by b***@gmail.com

It (The U.S._) was built including slavery. That's been "corrected"
since, but it wasn't corrected at the time of the founding.
That's far too big an exception just to quietly set aside,
and unfortunately it's not the only exception. The noble
words are really just mythology.

Bill Moyers addressed the conundrum of Jefferson in a recent
discussion, who owned about 200 slaves at the time and never
set any of them free, even upon his death. Jefferson's words
certainly had no reference to black people, of whom the majority
at that time had no place in American society except as property.
Moyers had no answer as to how Jefferson could hold two diametrically
ideas at the same time. A mystery. I don't find it mysterious at all.
A good current example is the scientist who believes in a God and, as
Globy likes to point out, there are many 'scientists' who have a belief
in the supernatural. Carefully examined, the idea of a transcendental
being populated with definite properties is baffling. Even agnosticism
is unteneable but perhaps more satisfying than nihilism.

The noble words (all men are created equal...) are really just
mythology.

Perhaps, but they are noble and worth pursuing I think.

What Jefferson meant to say was:

"All men are created equal to each other. And all colored boys are also
created equal to each other".

It probably slipped his mind because -- he was in bed with his colored
girlfriend.

[Emily]

Post by b***@gmail.com
Bill Moyers addressed the conundrum of Jefferson in a recent
discussion, who owned about 200 slaves at the time and never
set any of them free, even upon his death. Jefferson's words
certainly had no reference to black people, of whom the majority
at that time had no place in American society except as property.

Did Bill mention that Jefferson was heavily in debt, his slaves were a
large part of his assets, and, for that reason, he couldn't set them
free without turning over the money he got for them to his creditors?

[rumpelstiltskin]

Post by b***@gmail.com

It (The U.S._) was built including slavery. That's been "corrected"
since, but it wasn't corrected at the time of the founding.
That's far too big an exception just to quietly set aside,
and unfortunately it's not the only exception. The noble
words are really just mythology.

Bill Moyers addressed the conundrum of Jefferson in a recent
discussion, who owned about 200 slaves at the time and never
set any of them free, even upon his death. Jefferson's words
certainly had no reference to black people, of whom the majority
at that time had no place in American society except as property.
Moyers had no answer as to how Jefferson could hold two diametrically
ideas at the same time. A mystery. I don't find it mysterious at all.

I agree, it isn't mysterious. Humanity does it all the time.

Post by b***@gmail.com
A good current example is the scientist who believes in a God

I'm a bit skeptical of anybody who believes in "God" really
being a scientist, but I guess one can make advances in
conductive materials while still believing in "God".

Post by b***@gmail.com
and, as
Globy likes to point out, there are many 'scientists' who have a belief
in the supernatural. Carefully examined, the idea of a transcendental
being populated with definite properties is baffling. Even agnosticism
is unteneable but perhaps more satisfying than nihilism.

As I like to repeat with such frequency that it just amounts to
"vanity", the only reason I'm not a nihilist is because nihilism
itself demonstrates that nihilism is pointless. There is also the
side point that plainly there is "something", no matter what
reality really is, because even the appearance of something is
not nothing. As to "why is there something instead of nothing".
I regard that as unanswerable no matter how far our science
may progress in the future, because existence itself is beyond
the scope of logic/ reason.

Unlike theists, I don't regard believing in something for
which there is no evidence and which wouldn't answer the
question of existence even if it did exist, as being superior
to just admitting that we don't know, and never CAN know,
"everything". I guess that's just more vanity on my part,
but as Ecclesiastes said in effect, "all is vanity". I was
watching a rerun of one of David Eagleman's episodes
on "the brain" yesterday, in which he spoke of "false
memories", and how universal they are although of
course we don't realize that in life, and in experiments
in which people were persuaded of something in their
lives that didn't actually happen, they would little by
little add embellishments to them and then sincerely
believe that their own embellishments were true too.
I used to "quote" Ecclesiastes as saying "I have seen
everything there is to see under the sun, and all is but
dust and a chasing after wind", which sounds really
good and fits in nicely with my own ideas, but when
I actually went looking for that quotation in Ecclesiastes,
I couldn't find it, so apparently I made it up then
became convinced it was actually there. Ecclesiastes
does IMO express that sentiment in different words,
but apparently not in exactly those words (per the
King James Bible).

Dawkins, on a YouTube clip I saw recently,
mentioned that the King James bible is magnificent
poetry, but the translations into more modern
English merely serve to make more obvious how
silly the bible is, because the poetry is almost
nonexistent compared to the King James Bible.
On that clip, "We are all Africans", was
mentioned which drew a chuckle since pasty-
white Dawkins himself was born in Nairobi.

Post by b***@gmail.com

The noble words (all men are created equal...) are really just
mythology.

Perhaps, but they are noble and worth pursuing I think.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Post by b***@gmail.com

It (The U.S._) was built including slavery. That's been "corrected"
since, but it wasn't corrected at the time of the founding.
That's far too big an exception just to quietly set aside,
and unfortunately it's not the only exception. The noble
words are really just mythology.

Bill Moyers addressed the conundrum of Jefferson in a recent
discussion, who owned about 200 slaves at the time and never
set any of them free, even upon his death. Jefferson's words
certainly had no reference to black people, of whom the majority
at that time had no place in American society except as property.
Moyers had no answer as to how Jefferson could hold two diametrically
ideas at the same time. A mystery. I don't find it mysterious at all.
A good current example is the scientist who believes in a God and, as
Globy likes to point out, there are many 'scientists' who have a belief
in the supernatural. Carefully examined, the idea of a transcendental
being populated with definite properties is baffling. Even agnosticism
is unteneable but perhaps more satisfying than nihilism.

The noble words (all men are created equal...) are really just
mythology.

Perhaps, but they are noble and worth pursuing I think.

Indeed but that's not what it says. It says that they "are".
Women didn't even get the vote until 1920. That's a very
long wait to make that piece of reality correspond to what
was originally stated. That's unless, of course "Men"
means only "Men" and not "Men and Women", but I think
that even the founding "fathers" would have been
uncomfortable admitting to that. I could be wrong
though - maybe they did mean only "men", as Islamists
do mean in most places even to this day.

In some places only property owners originally could
vote - see sidebar at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_States

[El Castor]

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Actually, of course, the USA was NOT
built on fundamental truths, none more central
than the proposition “that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
with certain unalienable Rights, that among
these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It was built including slavery. That's been "corrected"
since, but it wasn't corrected at the time of the founding.
That's far too big an exception just to quietly set aside,
and unfortunately it's not the only exception. The noble
words are really just mythology.

Sorry, but history should not be judged in the light of 21st century
morality. Should monuments to Washington and Jefferson be torn down
because they owned slaves? After you get through cleansing history,
there won't be much left.

[El Castor]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance". Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

[El Castor]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

[El Castor]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:20:12 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

I have no sympathy, none, for Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. I hope
the jackass who rammed his car into that crowd gets the death penalty.
But, I can empathize with Southerners who are offended by the tearing
down of civil war statues. I also realize that it is a controversial
issue. That march was apparently advertised for a month and got just
400 participants. They should have been allowed to march and just
ignored. Instead, I believe the counter demonstrators (which included
a Black Lives Matter contingent) went there looking for a fight. I've
seen pictures of the skin heads, but also saw one of an old White man
laying on the ground, being kicked in the back by a Black
demonstrator, and another black guy who had turned a spray can into a
miniature blow torch. The riot was an "all sides" thing, but the march
that started it was (I believe) perfectly legal. Even if we don't
agree with them (and I don't), skin heads and neo-nazis still have
rights.

The day after the "march", a blogger who helped organize the event,
Jason Kessler, held a press conference in an attempt to explain what
happened. He got five words out, was chased off the podium and
repeatedly assaulted. That was a "one sided" incident, and is a
typical left wing response to someone who tries to utter words with
which they disagree. See for yourself. One sided or two sided?
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

Here is a question for you --will statues of George Washington and
Thomas Jefferson be next?

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:20:12 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

I have no sympathy, none, for Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. I hope
the jackass who rammed his car into that crowd gets the death penalty.
But, I can empathize with Southerners who are offended by the tearing
down of civil war statues. I also realize that it is a controversial
issue. That march was apparently advertised for a month and got just
400 participants. They should have been allowed to march and just
ignored. Instead, I believe the counter demonstrators (which included
a Black Lives Matter contingent) went there looking for a fight. I've
seen pictures of the skin heads, but also saw one of an old White man
laying on the ground, being kicked in the back by a Black
demonstrator, and another black guy who had turned a spray can into a
miniature blow torch. The riot was an "all sides" thing, but the march
that started it was (I believe) perfectly legal. Even if we don't
agree with them (and I don't), skin heads and neo-nazis still have
rights.

So you agree with Trump, and disagree with Cruz (and Ivanka and Pence
and every other official that has weighed in) that all sides were being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

Post by El Castor
The day after the "march", a blogger who helped organize the event,
Jason Kessler, held a press conference in an attempt to explain what
happened. He got five words out, was chased off the podium and
repeatedly assaulted. That was a "one sided" incident, and is a
typical left wing response to someone who tries to utter words with
which they disagree. See for yourself. One sided or two sided?
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I agree he was treated horribly and should not have been. I also agree
that all sides were being violent in Charlottesville and violence is
wrong. But what you keep missing is what the two sides stood for. Only
one side was hateful and racist. The other side was attacking (in some
cases using illegitimate violence) hate and racism.

Post by El Castor
Here is a question for you --will statues of George Washington and
Thomas Jefferson be next?

No. Owning slaves long before the Civil War doesn't rise to the level
of fighting in a war to preserve slavery.

[El Castor]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:00:47 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:20:12 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

I have no sympathy, none, for Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. I hope
the jackass who rammed his car into that crowd gets the death penalty.
But, I can empathize with Southerners who are offended by the tearing
down of civil war statues. I also realize that it is a controversial
issue. That march was apparently advertised for a month and got just
400 participants. They should have been allowed to march and just
ignored. Instead, I believe the counter demonstrators (which included
a Black Lives Matter contingent) went there looking for a fight. I've
seen pictures of the skin heads, but also saw one of an old White man
laying on the ground, being kicked in the back by a Black
demonstrator, and another black guy who had turned a spray can into a
miniature blow torch. The riot was an "all sides" thing, but the march
that started it was (I believe) perfectly legal. Even if we don't
agree with them (and I don't), skin heads and neo-nazis still have
rights.

So you agree with Trump, and disagree with Cruz (and Ivanka and Pence
and every other official that has weighed in) that all sides were being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not in the business of agreeing with
anyone. I just gave you my own opinion. I could care less what Ted
Cruz, etc, thinks.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
The day after the "march", a blogger who helped organize the event,
Jason Kessler, held a press conference in an attempt to explain what
happened. He got five words out, was chased off the podium and
repeatedly assaulted. That was a "one sided" incident, and is a
typical left wing response to someone who tries to utter words with
which they disagree. See for yourself. One sided or two sided?
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I agree he was treated horribly and should not have been. I also agree
that all sides were being violent in Charlottesville and violence is
wrong. But what you keep missing is what the two sides stood for. Only
one side was hateful and racist. The other side was attacking (in some
cases using illegitimate violence) hate and racism.

I don't miss anything. Both sides were filled with hate, but do you
believe that thought justifies violence? I do not. I saw the skin
heads and neo-nazis, but being a UC graduate, and former resident of
Berkeley, who still lives nearby, I am familiar with the screaming,
club wielding, fire starters who silence legitimate conservative
speakers on college campuses all over the country. That is what I saw
at Charlottesville getting into it with the skin heads. Like it or
not, being a skin head is not illegal, and does not give the Left a
license for violence. I suppose you saw the video of what happened to
the blogger who tried to speak, and the hate filled crowd who attacked
him. Should the people who assaulted that blogger find themselves in
jail?

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
Here is a question for you --will statues of George Washington and
Thomas Jefferson be next?

No. Owning slaves long before the Civil War doesn't rise to the level
of fighting in a war to preserve slavery.

Congratulations, we agree on something, but there are already
rumblings from the Left on this issue.

"Thomas Jefferson statue at Columbia protested as ‘symbol of violence
against black and brown bodies’"
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/32226/
"Students protest Thomas Jefferson statue, call for its removal"
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/students-protest-thomas-jefferson-statue-call-for-its-removal/article_8c1d6bb2-6d57-11e5-9051-17eb054002a6.html

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:00:47 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:20:12 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

I have no sympathy, none, for Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. I hope
the jackass who rammed his car into that crowd gets the death penalty.
But, I can empathize with Southerners who are offended by the tearing
down of civil war statues. I also realize that it is a controversial
issue. That march was apparently advertised for a month and got just
400 participants. They should have been allowed to march and just
ignored. Instead, I believe the counter demonstrators (which included
a Black Lives Matter contingent) went there looking for a fight. I've
seen pictures of the skin heads, but also saw one of an old White man
laying on the ground, being kicked in the back by a Black
demonstrator, and another black guy who had turned a spray can into a
miniature blow torch. The riot was an "all sides" thing, but the march
that started it was (I believe) perfectly legal. Even if we don't
agree with them (and I don't), skin heads and neo-nazis still have
rights.

So you agree with Trump, and disagree with Cruz (and Ivanka and Pence
and every other official that has weighed in) that all sides were being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not in the business of agreeing with
anyone. I just gave you my own opinion. I could care less what Ted
Cruz, etc, thinks.

Your words indicate you agree with Trump. If not, please clarify.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
The day after the "march", a blogger who helped organize the event,
Jason Kessler, held a press conference in an attempt to explain what
happened. He got five words out, was chased off the podium and
repeatedly assaulted. That was a "one sided" incident, and is a
typical left wing response to someone who tries to utter words with
which they disagree. See for yourself. One sided or two sided?
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I agree he was treated horribly and should not have been. I also agree
that all sides were being violent in Charlottesville and violence is
wrong. But what you keep missing is what the two sides stood for. Only
one side was hateful and racist. The other side was attacking (in some
cases using illegitimate violence) hate and racism.

I don't miss anything. Both sides were filled with hate,

I disagree. Only one side. And this comment mimics what Trump said.

Post by El Castor
but do you
believe that thought justifies violence?

No (I clearly said so above).

Post by El Castor
I do not. I saw the skin
heads and neo-nazis, but being a UC graduate, and former resident of
Berkeley, who still lives nearby, I am familiar with the screaming,
club wielding, fire starters who silence legitimate conservative
speakers on college campuses all over the country. That is what I saw
at Charlottesville getting into it with the skin heads. Like it or
not, being a skin head is not illegal, and does not give the Left a
license for violence. I suppose you saw the video of what happened to
the blogger who tried to speak, and the hate filled crowd who attacked
him. Should the people who assaulted that blogger find themselves in
jail?

Perhaps a fine. For sure, the actions were not justified.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
Here is a question for you --will statues of George Washington and
Thomas Jefferson be next?

No. Owning slaves long before the Civil War doesn't rise to the level
of fighting in a war to preserve slavery.

Congratulations, we agree on something, but there are already
rumblings from the Left on this issue.
"Thomas Jefferson statue at Columbia protested as ‘symbol of violence
against black and brown bodies’"
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/32226/
"Students protest Thomas Jefferson statue, call for its removal"
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/students-protest-thomas-jefferson-statue-call-for-its-removal/article_8c1d6bb2-6d57-11e5-9051-17eb054002a6.html

[El Castor]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:43:32 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:00:47 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:20:12 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

I have no sympathy, none, for Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. I hope
the jackass who rammed his car into that crowd gets the death penalty.
But, I can empathize with Southerners who are offended by the tearing
down of civil war statues. I also realize that it is a controversial
issue. That march was apparently advertised for a month and got just
400 participants. They should have been allowed to march and just
ignored. Instead, I believe the counter demonstrators (which included
a Black Lives Matter contingent) went there looking for a fight. I've
seen pictures of the skin heads, but also saw one of an old White man
laying on the ground, being kicked in the back by a Black
demonstrator, and another black guy who had turned a spray can into a
miniature blow torch. The riot was an "all sides" thing, but the march
that started it was (I believe) perfectly legal. Even if we don't
agree with them (and I don't), skin heads and neo-nazis still have
rights.

So you agree with Trump, and disagree with Cruz (and Ivanka and Pence
and every other official that has weighed in) that all sides were being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not in the business of agreeing with
anyone. I just gave you my own opinion. I could care less what Ted
Cruz, etc, thinks.

Your words indicate you agree with Trump. If not, please clarify.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
The day after the "march", a blogger who helped organize the event,
Jason Kessler, held a press conference in an attempt to explain what
happened. He got five words out, was chased off the podium and
repeatedly assaulted. That was a "one sided" incident, and is a
typical left wing response to someone who tries to utter words with
which they disagree. See for yourself. One sided or two sided?
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I agree he was treated horribly and should not have been. I also agree
that all sides were being violent in Charlottesville and violence is
wrong. But what you keep missing is what the two sides stood for. Only
one side was hateful and racist. The other side was attacking (in some
cases using illegitimate violence) hate and racism.

I don't miss anything. Both sides were filled with hate,

I disagree. Only one side. And this comment mimics what Trump said.

Post by El Castor
but do you
believe that thought justifies violence?

No (I clearly said so above).

Post by El Castor
I do not. I saw the skin
heads and neo-nazis, but being a UC graduate, and former resident of
Berkeley, who still lives nearby, I am familiar with the screaming,
club wielding, fire starters who silence legitimate conservative
speakers on college campuses all over the country. That is what I saw
at Charlottesville getting into it with the skin heads. Like it or
not, being a skin head is not illegal, and does not give the Left a
license for violence. I suppose you saw the video of what happened to
the blogger who tried to speak, and the hate filled crowd who attacked
him. Should the people who assaulted that blogger find themselves in
jail?

Perhaps a fine. For sure, the actions were not justified.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
Here is a question for you --will statues of George Washington and
Thomas Jefferson be next?

No. Owning slaves long before the Civil War doesn't rise to the level
of fighting in a war to preserve slavery.

Congratulations, we agree on something, but there are already
rumblings from the Left on this issue.
"Thomas Jefferson statue at Columbia protested as ‘symbol of violence
against black and brown bodies’"
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/32226/
"Students protest Thomas Jefferson statue, call for its removal"
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/students-protest-thomas-jefferson-statue-call-for-its-removal/article_8c1d6bb2-6d57-11e5-9051-17eb054002a6.html

I just heard on the radio a "White Nationalist" who participated in
the march give his quite believable version of what happened:

1. The ACLU helped them get permission for the event. I looked it up,
and he was correct.
"ACLU, Rutherford Institute Urge Charlottesville to Allow Rally at
Emancipation Park"
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36089526/unite-the-right-rally-coverage-8-08-2017

2. The violence was started by Antifa, a left wing organization that
came armed with baseball bats, and clubs. Here is a BBC photo of
Antifa assembling prior to engaging the marchers. Look peaceful to
you?
Loading Image...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
BTW - I believe Antifa was also involved in violent demonstrations in
Berkeley.

My support goes to the marchers, not because I support neo-Nazi
theology, but because, like the ACLU (who also doesn't like them), I
support their right to speak without being assaulted. Do you?

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:43:32 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:00:47 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:20:12 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

I have no sympathy, none, for Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. I hope
the jackass who rammed his car into that crowd gets the death penalty.
But, I can empathize with Southerners who are offended by the tearing
down of civil war statues. I also realize that it is a controversial
issue. That march was apparently advertised for a month and got just
400 participants. They should have been allowed to march and just
ignored. Instead, I believe the counter demonstrators (which included
a Black Lives Matter contingent) went there looking for a fight. I've
seen pictures of the skin heads, but also saw one of an old White man
laying on the ground, being kicked in the back by a Black
demonstrator, and another black guy who had turned a spray can into a
miniature blow torch. The riot was an "all sides" thing, but the march
that started it was (I believe) perfectly legal. Even if we don't
agree with them (and I don't), skin heads and neo-nazis still have
rights.

So you agree with Trump, and disagree with Cruz (and Ivanka and Pence
and every other official that has weighed in) that all sides were being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not in the business of agreeing with
anyone. I just gave you my own opinion. I could care less what Ted
Cruz, etc, thinks.

Your words indicate you agree with Trump. If not, please clarify.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
The day after the "march", a blogger who helped organize the event,
Jason Kessler, held a press conference in an attempt to explain what
happened. He got five words out, was chased off the podium and
repeatedly assaulted. That was a "one sided" incident, and is a
typical left wing response to someone who tries to utter words with
which they disagree. See for yourself. One sided or two sided?
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I agree he was treated horribly and should not have been. I also agree
that all sides were being violent in Charlottesville and violence is
wrong. But what you keep missing is what the two sides stood for. Only
one side was hateful and racist. The other side was attacking (in some
cases using illegitimate violence) hate and racism.

I don't miss anything. Both sides were filled with hate,

I disagree. Only one side. And this comment mimics what Trump said.

Post by El Castor
but do you
believe that thought justifies violence?

No (I clearly said so above).

Post by El Castor
I do not. I saw the skin
heads and neo-nazis, but being a UC graduate, and former resident of
Berkeley, who still lives nearby, I am familiar with the screaming,
club wielding, fire starters who silence legitimate conservative
speakers on college campuses all over the country. That is what I saw
at Charlottesville getting into it with the skin heads. Like it or
not, being a skin head is not illegal, and does not give the Left a
license for violence. I suppose you saw the video of what happened to
the blogger who tried to speak, and the hate filled crowd who attacked
him. Should the people who assaulted that blogger find themselves in
jail?

Perhaps a fine. For sure, the actions were not justified.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
Here is a question for you --will statues of George Washington and
Thomas Jefferson be next?

No. Owning slaves long before the Civil War doesn't rise to the level
of fighting in a war to preserve slavery.

Congratulations, we agree on something, but there are already
rumblings from the Left on this issue.
"Thomas Jefferson statue at Columbia protested as ‘symbol of violence
against black and brown bodies’"
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/32226/
"Students protest Thomas Jefferson statue, call for its removal"
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/students-protest-thomas-jefferson-statue-call-for-its-removal/article_8c1d6bb2-6d57-11e5-9051-17eb054002a6.html

I just heard on the radio a "White Nationalist" who participated in
1. The ACLU helped them get permission for the event. I looked it up,
and he was correct.
"ACLU, Rutherford Institute Urge Charlottesville to Allow Rally at
Emancipation Park"
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36089526/unite-the-right-rally-coverage-8-08-2017

Makes sense.

Post by El Castor
2. The violence was started by Antifa, a left wing organization that
came armed with baseball bats, and clubs. Here is a BBC photo of
Antifa assembling prior to engaging the marchers. Look peaceful to
you?
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13955/production/_97331208_gettyimages-830767670.jpg
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
BTW - I believe Antifa was also involved in violent demonstrations in
Berkeley.

Perhaps.

Post by El Castor
My support goes to the marchers, not because I support neo-Nazi
theology, but because, like the ACLU (who also doesn't like them), I
support their right to speak without being assaulted. Do you?

Yes.

All of which doesn't change the fact that there weren't "many sides" to
the hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

[Gary]

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
I just heard on the radio a "White Nationalist" who participated in
1. The ACLU helped them get permission for the event. I looked it up,
and he was correct.
"ACLU, Rutherford Institute Urge Charlottesville to Allow Rally at
Emancipation Park"
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36089526/unite-the-right-rally-coverage-8-08-2017

Makes sense.

Post by El Castor
2. The violence was started by Antifa, a left wing organization that
came armed with baseball bats, and clubs. Here is a BBC photo of
Antifa assembling prior to engaging the marchers. Look peaceful to
you?
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13955/production/_97331208_gettyimages-830767670.jpg
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
BTW - I believe Antifa was also involved in violent demonstrations in
Berkeley.

Perhaps.

Post by El Castor
My support goes to the marchers, not because I support neo-Nazi
theology, but because, like the ACLU (who also doesn't like them), I
support their right to speak without being assaulted. Do you?

Yes.
All of which doesn't change the fact that there weren't "many sides" to
the hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

[Emily]

Post by Gary
I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

Look at pictures of people who were at that rally and tell me that you
really believe the anti protestors were the white trash contingent.
There was plenty of white trash there but they were the ones waving
the Nazi banner. If you can't see that, you really do need to have
your eyes examined or your head shrunk.

[Gary]

Post by Emily

Post by Gary
I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

Look at pictures of people who were at that rally and tell me that you
really believe the anti protestors were the white trash contingent.
There was plenty of white trash there but they were the ones waving
the Nazi banner.

I haven't seen the banner waving. If I did -- I might change my mind about
them.

Post by Emily
If you can't see that, you really do need to have
your eyes examined or your head shrunk.

I've seen a few short videos on TV. But I can't tell anything. I assume the
Networks would show us something to make the white Protesters look bad. (as is
their wont).

You grew up in the South, didn't you ? "white trash" is only part of the
description I always heard when growing up. The full description was:
"Nigger-loving white-trash".

That pretty much summed up the crowd that arrived to attack the people who were
protesting the removal of the Lee statue.

[Emily]

Post by Gary

Post by Emily

Post by Gary
I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

Look at pictures of people who were at that rally and tell me that you
really believe the anti protestors were the white trash contingent.
There was plenty of white trash there but they were the ones waving
the Nazi banner.

I haven't seen the banner waving. If I did -- I might change my mind about
them.

Post by Emily
If you can't see that, you really do need to have
your eyes examined or your head shrunk.

I've seen a few short videos on TV. But I can't tell anything. I assume the
Networks would show us something to make the white Protesters look bad. (as is
their wont).

Get on Facebook and sign up for a few news pages. I get the C'ville
TV station, the Richmond Times dispatch and a bunch of other pages
that post lots of pictures. Or just do some web searching. There are
lots of pictures out there.

Post by Gary
You grew up in the South, didn't you ? "white trash" is only part of the
"Nigger-loving white-trash".

Not where I come from.

Post by Gary
That pretty much summed up the crowd that arrived to attack the people who were
protesting the removal of the Lee statue.

I have a feeling that if you saw those people in a different setting,
you'd think they were perfectly normal white people, just like you.

[Gary]

Post by Emily

Post by Gary

Post by Emily

Post by Gary
I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

Look at pictures of people who were at that rally and tell me that you
really believe the anti protestors were the white trash contingent.
There was plenty of white trash there but they were the ones waving
the Nazi banner.

I haven't seen the banner waving. If I did -- I might change my mind about
them.

Post by Emily
If you can't see that, you really do need to have
your eyes examined or your head shrunk.

I've seen a few short videos on TV. But I can't tell anything. I assume the
Networks would show us something to make the white Protesters look bad. (as is
their wont).

Get on Facebook and sign up for a few news pages. I get the C'ville
TV station, the Richmond Times dispatch and a bunch of other pages
that post lots of pictures. Or just do some web searching. There are
lots of pictures out there.

I'll check it out.

Post by Emily

Post by Gary
You grew up in the South, didn't you ? "white trash" is only part of the
"Nigger-loving white-trash".

Not where I come from.

I'm referring to the 1950s when I was growing up. In later years -- it became
sinful for anybody but a negro to call a black person a "nigger". (they still
do it all the time)

Post by Emily

Post by Gary
That pretty much summed up the crowd that arrived to attack the people who were
protesting the removal of the Lee statue.

I have a feeling that if you saw those people in a different setting,
you'd think they were perfectly normal white people, just like you.

Now you are approaching a great truth of humanity :-) When looking at people
as individuals -- I tend to like and accept any who act civilized. (black,
white, red, yellow or brown) But ... I really do not like "groups". Groups
can be a threat to civilization and to my way of life. Individuals are not.
And ... I have noticed that when alone -- most people are much more civilized
and sociable than when in a "group". "Groups" tend to pass along their worst
traits to their followers. (I'm sure Attila the Hun was a pretty nice fellow
-- as long as there were no other Huns around.)

[El Castor]

Post by Emily

Post by Gary
I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

Look at pictures of people who were at that rally and tell me that you
really believe the anti protestors were the white trash contingent.
There was plenty of white trash there but they were the ones waving
the Nazi banner. If you can't see that, you really do need to have
your eyes examined or your head shrunk.

I don't know about White Trash, but here are some White lefties
(Antifa) assembling before attacking the marchers -- courtesy of the
BBC. Look peaceable to you? Don't to me.
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13955/production/_97331208_gettyimages-830767670.jpg

[Emily]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:24:16 -0700, El Castor

Post by El Castor

Post by Emily

Post by Gary
I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

Look at pictures of people who were at that rally and tell me that you
really believe the anti protestors were the white trash contingent.
There was plenty of white trash there but they were the ones waving
the Nazi banner. If you can't see that, you really do need to have
your eyes examined or your head shrunk.

I don't know about White Trash, but here are some White lefties
(Antifa) assembling before attacking the marchers -- courtesy of the
BBC. Look peaceable to you? Don't to me.
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13955/production/_97331208_gettyimages-830767670.jpg

There was no way to access any information about when that photo was
taken or who exactly those people were.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Post by Emily
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:24:16 -0700, El Castor

Post by El Castor

Post by Emily

Post by Gary
I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

Look at pictures of people who were at that rally and tell me that you
really believe the anti protestors were the white trash contingent.
There was plenty of white trash there but they were the ones waving
the Nazi banner. If you can't see that, you really do need to have
your eyes examined or your head shrunk.

I don't know about White Trash, but here are some White lefties
(Antifa) assembling before attacking the marchers -- courtesy of the
BBC. Look peaceable to you? Don't to me.
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13955/production/_97331208_gettyimages-830767670.jpg

There was no way to access any information about when that photo was
taken or who exactly those people were.

He's just flinging stuff around.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by Gary

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
I just heard on the radio a "White Nationalist" who participated in
1. The ACLU helped them get permission for the event. I looked it up,
and he was correct.
"ACLU, Rutherford Institute Urge Charlottesville to Allow Rally at
Emancipation Park"
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36089526/unite-the-right-rally-coverage-8-08-2017

Makes sense.

Post by El Castor
2. The violence was started by Antifa, a left wing organization that
came armed with baseball bats, and clubs. Here is a BBC photo of
Antifa assembling prior to engaging the marchers. Look peaceful to
you?
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13955/production/_97331208_gettyimages-830767670.jpg
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
BTW - I believe Antifa was also involved in violent demonstrations in
Berkeley.

Perhaps.

Post by El Castor
My support goes to the marchers, not because I support neo-Nazi
theology, but because, like the ACLU (who also doesn't like them), I
support their right to speak without being assaulted. Do you?

Yes.
All of which doesn't change the fact that there weren't "many sides" to
the hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

Hatred against hatred and bigotry is a good thing.

[Gary]

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Gary

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
My support goes to the marchers, not because I support neo-Nazi
theology, but because, like the ACLU (who also doesn't like them), I
support their right to speak without being assaulted. Do you?

Yes.
All of which doesn't change the fact that there weren't "many sides" to
the hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

I would suggest there were two sides to the hate. After all, the blacks --
and their white-trash friends -- did not go there armed with bats and clubs
because they loved the protesters.

Hatred against hatred and bigotry is a good thing.

Let's see if I have this right. According to the modern liberal philosophy,
we are required to hate white people -- who love their white family and culture.
At the other extreme -- we are required to love, defend and protect any white
person who loves a negro.

[El Castor]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 14:38:21 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:43:32 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:00:47 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:20:12 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

I have no sympathy, none, for Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. I hope
the jackass who rammed his car into that crowd gets the death penalty.
But, I can empathize with Southerners who are offended by the tearing
down of civil war statues. I also realize that it is a controversial
issue. That march was apparently advertised for a month and got just
400 participants. They should have been allowed to march and just
ignored. Instead, I believe the counter demonstrators (which included
a Black Lives Matter contingent) went there looking for a fight. I've
seen pictures of the skin heads, but also saw one of an old White man
laying on the ground, being kicked in the back by a Black
demonstrator, and another black guy who had turned a spray can into a
miniature blow torch. The riot was an "all sides" thing, but the march
that started it was (I believe) perfectly legal. Even if we don't
agree with them (and I don't), skin heads and neo-nazis still have
rights.

So you agree with Trump, and disagree with Cruz (and Ivanka and Pence
and every other official that has weighed in) that all sides were being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not in the business of agreeing with
anyone. I just gave you my own opinion. I could care less what Ted
Cruz, etc, thinks.

Your words indicate you agree with Trump. If not, please clarify.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
The day after the "march", a blogger who helped organize the event,
Jason Kessler, held a press conference in an attempt to explain what
happened. He got five words out, was chased off the podium and
repeatedly assaulted. That was a "one sided" incident, and is a
typical left wing response to someone who tries to utter words with
which they disagree. See for yourself. One sided or two sided?
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I agree he was treated horribly and should not have been. I also agree
that all sides were being violent in Charlottesville and violence is
wrong. But what you keep missing is what the two sides stood for. Only
one side was hateful and racist. The other side was attacking (in some
cases using illegitimate violence) hate and racism.

I don't miss anything. Both sides were filled with hate,

I disagree. Only one side. And this comment mimics what Trump said.

Post by El Castor
but do you
believe that thought justifies violence?

No (I clearly said so above).

Post by El Castor
I do not. I saw the skin
heads and neo-nazis, but being a UC graduate, and former resident of
Berkeley, who still lives nearby, I am familiar with the screaming,
club wielding, fire starters who silence legitimate conservative
speakers on college campuses all over the country. That is what I saw
at Charlottesville getting into it with the skin heads. Like it or
not, being a skin head is not illegal, and does not give the Left a
license for violence. I suppose you saw the video of what happened to
the blogger who tried to speak, and the hate filled crowd who attacked
him. Should the people who assaulted that blogger find themselves in
jail?

Perhaps a fine. For sure, the actions were not justified.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
Here is a question for you --will statues of George Washington and
Thomas Jefferson be next?

No. Owning slaves long before the Civil War doesn't rise to the level
of fighting in a war to preserve slavery.

Congratulations, we agree on something, but there are already
rumblings from the Left on this issue.
"Thomas Jefferson statue at Columbia protested as ‘symbol of violence
against black and brown bodies’"
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/32226/
"Students protest Thomas Jefferson statue, call for its removal"
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/students-protest-thomas-jefferson-statue-call-for-its-removal/article_8c1d6bb2-6d57-11e5-9051-17eb054002a6.html

I just heard on the radio a "White Nationalist" who participated in
1. The ACLU helped them get permission for the event. I looked it up,
and he was correct.
"ACLU, Rutherford Institute Urge Charlottesville to Allow Rally at
Emancipation Park"
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36089526/unite-the-right-rally-coverage-8-08-2017

Makes sense.

Post by El Castor
2. The violence was started by Antifa, a left wing organization that
came armed with baseball bats, and clubs. Here is a BBC photo of
Antifa assembling prior to engaging the marchers. Look peaceful to
you?
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13955/production/_97331208_gettyimages-830767670.jpg
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
BTW - I believe Antifa was also involved in violent demonstrations in
Berkeley.

Perhaps.

Not "Perhaps"...
"On February 1, Milo Yiannopoulos was scheduled to make a speech at
the University of California, Berkeley at 8:00 pm. Prior, more than
100 UC Berkeley faculty signed a petition urging the university to
cancel the event. Over 1,500 people gathered on the steps of Sproul
Hall to protest the event. The university said in a statement that the
protest had been non-violent until it was interrupted by a group of
around 150 people who they believe came from outside of the campus.
The interrupting protesters, which included Antifa activists and some
who identified themselves as members of the left-wing group By Any
Means Necessary, set fires, damaged property, threw fireworks,
attacked members of the crowd, and threw rocks at the police."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Berkeley_protests

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
My support goes to the marchers, not because I support neo-Nazi
theology, but because, like the ACLU (who also doesn't like them), I
support their right to speak without being assaulted. Do you?

Yes.
All of which doesn't change the fact that there weren't "many sides" to
the hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

Wake up. Look at the picture -- does that look like a peaceful
assembly of pacifists? Clubs, goggles, mask, and is that the muzzle of
a gun in the lower left corner? That is pure hate in those faces. Just
because you believe the hate is justified, it is pure unadulterated
hate, nonetheless.

Wikipedia ...
"According to National Public Radio, "People who speak for the Antifa
movement acknowledge they sometimes carry clubs and sticks."
Antifa protestors were recorded on tape by right-wing activist James
O'Keefe planning to disrupt the 2017 Inauguration of Donald Trump.
During the Inauguration celebrations mask-wearing black bloc
protestors "rage(d) across the area just outside" of the security
perimeter, "smashing windows and burning cars."
Protestors under the Antifa banner participated in the 2017 Berkeley
protests where they gained mainstream media attention.[7] Later,
Antifa groups threatened to disrupt the 2017 Portland Rose Festival
parade after hearing that the Multnomah County Republican Party would
participate."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
Note: the URL only works if you include the "(United_States)".

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 14:38:21 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:43:32 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:00:47 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:20:12 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

I have no sympathy, none, for Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. I hope
the jackass who rammed his car into that crowd gets the death penalty.
But, I can empathize with Southerners who are offended by the tearing
down of civil war statues. I also realize that it is a controversial
issue. That march was apparently advertised for a month and got just
400 participants. They should have been allowed to march and just
ignored. Instead, I believe the counter demonstrators (which included
a Black Lives Matter contingent) went there looking for a fight. I've
seen pictures of the skin heads, but also saw one of an old White man
laying on the ground, being kicked in the back by a Black
demonstrator, and another black guy who had turned a spray can into a
miniature blow torch. The riot was an "all sides" thing, but the march
that started it was (I believe) perfectly legal. Even if we don't
agree with them (and I don't), skin heads and neo-nazis still have
rights.

So you agree with Trump, and disagree with Cruz (and Ivanka and Pence
and every other official that has weighed in) that all sides were being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not in the business of agreeing with
anyone. I just gave you my own opinion. I could care less what Ted
Cruz, etc, thinks.

Your words indicate you agree with Trump. If not, please clarify.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
The day after the "march", a blogger who helped organize the event,
Jason Kessler, held a press conference in an attempt to explain what
happened. He got five words out, was chased off the podium and
repeatedly assaulted. That was a "one sided" incident, and is a
typical left wing response to someone who tries to utter words with
which they disagree. See for yourself. One sided or two sided?
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I agree he was treated horribly and should not have been. I also agree
that all sides were being violent in Charlottesville and violence is
wrong. But what you keep missing is what the two sides stood for. Only
one side was hateful and racist. The other side was attacking (in some
cases using illegitimate violence) hate and racism.

I don't miss anything. Both sides were filled with hate,

I disagree. Only one side. And this comment mimics what Trump said.

Post by El Castor
but do you
believe that thought justifies violence?

No (I clearly said so above).

Post by El Castor
I do not. I saw the skin
heads and neo-nazis, but being a UC graduate, and former resident of
Berkeley, who still lives nearby, I am familiar with the screaming,
club wielding, fire starters who silence legitimate conservative
speakers on college campuses all over the country. That is what I saw
at Charlottesville getting into it with the skin heads. Like it or
not, being a skin head is not illegal, and does not give the Left a
license for violence. I suppose you saw the video of what happened to
the blogger who tried to speak, and the hate filled crowd who attacked
him. Should the people who assaulted that blogger find themselves in
jail?

Perhaps a fine. For sure, the actions were not justified.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
Here is a question for you --will statues of George Washington and
Thomas Jefferson be next?

No. Owning slaves long before the Civil War doesn't rise to the level
of fighting in a war to preserve slavery.

Congratulations, we agree on something, but there are already
rumblings from the Left on this issue.
"Thomas Jefferson statue at Columbia protested as ‘symbol of violence
against black and brown bodies’"
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/32226/
"Students protest Thomas Jefferson statue, call for its removal"
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/students-protest-thomas-jefferson-statue-call-for-its-removal/article_8c1d6bb2-6d57-11e5-9051-17eb054002a6.html

I just heard on the radio a "White Nationalist" who participated in
1. The ACLU helped them get permission for the event. I looked it up,
and he was correct.
"ACLU, Rutherford Institute Urge Charlottesville to Allow Rally at
Emancipation Park"
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36089526/unite-the-right-rally-coverage-8-08-2017

Makes sense.

Post by El Castor
2. The violence was started by Antifa, a left wing organization that
came armed with baseball bats, and clubs. Here is a BBC photo of
Antifa assembling prior to engaging the marchers. Look peaceful to
you?
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13955/production/_97331208_gettyimages-830767670.jpg
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
BTW - I believe Antifa was also involved in violent demonstrations in
Berkeley.

Perhaps.

Not "Perhaps"...

The perhaps referred to starting the violence in Charlottsville.

Post by El Castor
"On February 1, Milo Yiannopoulos was scheduled to make a speech at
the University of California, Berkeley at 8:00 pm. Prior, more than
100 UC Berkeley faculty signed a petition urging the university to
cancel the event. Over 1,500 people gathered on the steps of Sproul
Hall to protest the event. The university said in a statement that the
protest had been non-violent until it was interrupted by a group of
around 150 people who they believe came from outside of the campus.
The interrupting protesters, which included Antifa activists and some
who identified themselves as members of the left-wing group By Any
Means Necessary, set fires, damaged property, threw fireworks,
attacked members of the crowd, and threw rocks at the police."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Berkeley_protests

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
My support goes to the marchers, not because I support neo-Nazi
theology, but because, like the ACLU (who also doesn't like them), I
support their right to speak without being assaulted. Do you?

Yes.
All of which doesn't change the fact that there weren't "many sides" to
the hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

Wake up. Look at the picture -- does that look like a peaceful
assembly of pacifists? Clubs, goggles, mask, and is that the muzzle of
a gun in the lower left corner? That is pure hate in those faces. Just
because you believe the hate is justified, it is pure unadulterated
hate, nonetheless.

It is hatred of racism and bigotry. When Trump was referring to hatred
- when we all refer to it in this context - we are talking about
deplorable hatred. The hatred of the counter protestors was commendable
hatred (the tactics of some being deplorable).

So let's try this again. There weren't "many sides" to the deplorable
hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

Post by El Castor
Wikipedia ...
"According to National Public Radio, "People who speak for the Antifa
movement acknowledge they sometimes carry clubs and sticks."
Antifa protestors were recorded on tape by right-wing activist James
O'Keefe planning to disrupt the 2017 Inauguration of Donald Trump.
During the Inauguration celebrations mask-wearing black bloc
protestors "rage(d) across the area just outside" of the security
perimeter, "smashing windows and burning cars."
Protestors under the Antifa banner participated in the 2017 Berkeley
protests where they gained mainstream media attention.[7] Later,
Antifa groups threatened to disrupt the 2017 Portland Rose Festival
parade after hearing that the Multnomah County Republican Party would
participate."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
Note: the URL only works if you include the "(United_States)".

[El Castor]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:41:03 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 14:38:21 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:43:32 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:00:47 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 17:20:12 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by rumpelstiltskin
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:53:05 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 17:16:15 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Then what are these?
http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hpn-gun-club.jpg
https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Black-Bloc-anarchists-run-amok-in-Berkeley.jpg

Illegitimate means aimed at redressing legitimate grievances. In
contrast, the Charolottesville racists have illegitimate "grievances".

Is Ann Coulter being allowed to speak, a "legitimate grievance".

No, but thanks for the wild red herring.

Post by rumpelstiltskin
Was
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

I have no sympathy, none, for Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists. I hope
the jackass who rammed his car into that crowd gets the death penalty.
But, I can empathize with Southerners who are offended by the tearing
down of civil war statues. I also realize that it is a controversial
issue. That march was apparently advertised for a month and got just
400 participants. They should have been allowed to march and just
ignored. Instead, I believe the counter demonstrators (which included
a Black Lives Matter contingent) went there looking for a fight. I've
seen pictures of the skin heads, but also saw one of an old White man
laying on the ground, being kicked in the back by a Black
demonstrator, and another black guy who had turned a spray can into a
miniature blow torch. The riot was an "all sides" thing, but the march
that started it was (I believe) perfectly legal. Even if we don't
agree with them (and I don't), skin heads and neo-nazis still have
rights.

So you agree with Trump, and disagree with Cruz (and Ivanka and Pence
and every other official that has weighed in) that all sides were being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

Don't put words in my mouth. I am not in the business of agreeing with
anyone. I just gave you my own opinion. I could care less what Ted
Cruz, etc, thinks.

Your words indicate you agree with Trump. If not, please clarify.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
The day after the "march", a blogger who helped organize the event,
Jason Kessler, held a press conference in an attempt to explain what
happened. He got five words out, was chased off the podium and
repeatedly assaulted. That was a "one sided" incident, and is a
typical left wing response to someone who tries to utter words with
which they disagree. See for yourself. One sided or two sided?
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672

I agree he was treated horribly and should not have been. I also agree
that all sides were being violent in Charlottesville and violence is
wrong. But what you keep missing is what the two sides stood for. Only
one side was hateful and racist. The other side was attacking (in some
cases using illegitimate violence) hate and racism.

I don't miss anything. Both sides were filled with hate,

I disagree. Only one side. And this comment mimics what Trump said.

Post by El Castor
but do you
believe that thought justifies violence?

No (I clearly said so above).

Post by El Castor
I do not. I saw the skin
heads and neo-nazis, but being a UC graduate, and former resident of
Berkeley, who still lives nearby, I am familiar with the screaming,
club wielding, fire starters who silence legitimate conservative
speakers on college campuses all over the country. That is what I saw
at Charlottesville getting into it with the skin heads. Like it or
not, being a skin head is not illegal, and does not give the Left a
license for violence. I suppose you saw the video of what happened to
the blogger who tried to speak, and the hate filled crowd who attacked
him. Should the people who assaulted that blogger find themselves in
jail?

Perhaps a fine. For sure, the actions were not justified.

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
Here is a question for you --will statues of George Washington and
Thomas Jefferson be next?

No. Owning slaves long before the Civil War doesn't rise to the level
of fighting in a war to preserve slavery.

Congratulations, we agree on something, but there are already
rumblings from the Left on this issue.
"Thomas Jefferson statue at Columbia protested as ‘symbol of violence
against black and brown bodies’"
https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/32226/
"Students protest Thomas Jefferson statue, call for its removal"
https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/students-protest-thomas-jefferson-statue-call-for-its-removal/article_8c1d6bb2-6d57-11e5-9051-17eb054002a6.html

I just heard on the radio a "White Nationalist" who participated in
1. The ACLU helped them get permission for the event. I looked it up,
and he was correct.
"ACLU, Rutherford Institute Urge Charlottesville to Allow Rally at
Emancipation Park"
http://www.nbc29.com/story/36089526/unite-the-right-rally-coverage-8-08-2017

Makes sense.

Post by El Castor
2. The violence was started by Antifa, a left wing organization that
came armed with baseball bats, and clubs. Here is a BBC photo of
Antifa assembling prior to engaging the marchers. Look peaceful to
you?
https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/13955/production/_97331208_gettyimages-830767670.jpg
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
BTW - I believe Antifa was also involved in violent demonstrations in
Berkeley.

Perhaps.

Not "Perhaps"...

The perhaps referred to starting the violence in Charlottsville.

Post by El Castor
"On February 1, Milo Yiannopoulos was scheduled to make a speech at
the University of California, Berkeley at 8:00 pm. Prior, more than
100 UC Berkeley faculty signed a petition urging the university to
cancel the event. Over 1,500 people gathered on the steps of Sproul
Hall to protest the event. The university said in a statement that the
protest had been non-violent until it was interrupted by a group of
around 150 people who they believe came from outside of the campus.
The interrupting protesters, which included Antifa activists and some
who identified themselves as members of the left-wing group By Any
Means Necessary, set fires, damaged property, threw fireworks,
attacked members of the crowd, and threw rocks at the police."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Berkeley_protests

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
My support goes to the marchers, not because I support neo-Nazi
theology, but because, like the ACLU (who also doesn't like them), I
support their right to speak without being assaulted. Do you?

Yes.
All of which doesn't change the fact that there weren't "many sides" to
the hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

Wake up. Look at the picture -- does that look like a peaceful
assembly of pacifists? Clubs, goggles, mask, and is that the muzzle of
a gun in the lower left corner? That is pure hate in those faces. Just
because you believe the hate is justified, it is pure unadulterated
hate, nonetheless.

It is hatred of racism and bigotry. When Trump was referring to hatred
- when we all refer to it in this context - we are talking about
deplorable hatred. The hatred of the counter protestors was commendable
hatred (the tactics of some being deplorable).
So let's try this again. There weren't "many sides" to the deplorable
hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

Wrong again, Josh. There were two sides, the extreme Right and the
extreme Left. If Antifa had stayed home, the Nazis and skin heads
would have paraded, given their speech, and left -- but the Left
brought their clubs, and both sides had the fight they wanted.

I can recognize and detest both extremes, but you cannot, for the
simple reason that you are too close to one of those extremes, and
perhaps almost a part of it. So, hide in your left wing shell if you
must, but don't pretend to me or yourself that you really understand
what happened that day.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
Wikipedia ...
"According to National Public Radio, "People who speak for the Antifa
movement acknowledge they sometimes carry clubs and sticks."
Antifa protestors were recorded on tape by right-wing activist James
O'Keefe planning to disrupt the 2017 Inauguration of Donald Trump.
During the Inauguration celebrations mask-wearing black bloc
protestors "rage(d) across the area just outside" of the security
perimeter, "smashing windows and burning cars."
Protestors under the Antifa banner participated in the 2017 Berkeley
protests where they gained mainstream media attention.[7] Later,
Antifa groups threatened to disrupt the 2017 Portland Rose Festival
parade after hearing that the Multnomah County Republican Party would
participate."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)
Note: the URL only works if you include the "(United_States)".

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Post by El Castor
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 16:41:03 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

{snip}

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
So let's try this again. There weren't "many sides" to the deplorable
hate and bigotry. There was only one side, the white nationalists.

Wrong again, Josh. There were two sides, the extreme Right and the
extreme Left. If Antifa had stayed home, the Nazis and skin heads
would have paraded, given their speech, and left -- but the Left
brought their clubs, and both sides had the fight they wanted.

That just confirms both sides engaged in violence and has no relevance
to my claim that only one side was motivated by deplorable hate.

Post by El Castor
I can recognize and detest both extremes, but you cannot, for the
simple reason that you are too close to one of those extremes, and
perhaps almost a part of it.

I condemn violence on both sides. I only condemn the hate on one side
because the hate on the other side (hating racists) is laudable.

Apparently, you are with Trump 1.0 (Saturday) that the deplorable hate
came from "many sides. Many sides". Fortunately, the reaction from
across the political spectrum was so intense, Trump 2.0 (Monday) changed
his tune.

[Gary]

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:35:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor
the shooting of Michael Brown a "legitimate grievance". Need I remind
you of the circumstances of Brown's death?

While the shooting of Brown in and of itself wasn't a legitimate
grievance, it is a proxy for a legitimate grievance (the many other
cases of police brutality against blacks).

Post by El Castor

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/450436/ted-cruz-charlottesville

Well? Are you with Cruz (only one side is being hateful and racist) or
with Trump (all sides are to blame).

I'm with me. Both sides are more than capable of being wrong, and
often are, but when it comes to hypocritical circumvention of the
facts, the hateful Left wins the prize.

Trump and Cruz were talking only about what happened in Charlottesville
(which is why all of your other stuff are red herrings). Can you bring
yourself to weigh in on whether "one side" or "all sides" are being
hateful and racist in Charlottesville?

There was no violence at Charlottesville until the negroes and their white-trash
-- shit dipped -- friends arrived.

[Gary]

Post by Josh Rosenbluth

Post by El Castor

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

What crap! The White Nationalists are a bunch of racist trash
celebrating White Supremacy.

Maybe one day the Nationalists will learn what I have. There is no such thing
as "white supremacy". One look at all that worthless white-trash who are
opposing them -- should prove that fact.

[Gary]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:15:25 -0700, El Castor

Post by El Castor
"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

It's not just Southern history that they are attempting to
change by removing the statue, it's Southern culture and
that's okay with me. Personally, I don't think that there is
a lot to admire in that particular aspect of Southern
Culture, anyway.

Let me offer my personal thought on Southern Culture. I can only speak from
personal observation -- but here goes. The only unique culture in the South is
in the dialect and habits of people over age 60. The culture of younger
Southerners is the same as that of people in Massachusetts and Wyoming. (to
name a couple) For the past fifty years, Southerners have attended public
schools who teach "diversity" and assimilation. They have also spent their
lives (and formulating years) watching the same TV programs seen by folks all
over the country. THAT has done more to shape culture than all the suggestions
of their elderly relatives. Except for the elderly -- I've not heard a
"Southern accent" in forty years. And the young all love "diversity" ! And
perversity !

My conclusion ? The South shares the same culture as the rest of the country.
Which reminds me of a cesspool.

However, it does seem that while the government is trying to
eliminate prejudice and violence by modifying white
Southern culture, they are at the same time encouraging it,
or at least turning a blind eye to it, in the black culture.

Blacks are simply trying to imitate the culture of their white inferiors.

[mg]

Post by Gary

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:15:25 -0700, El Castor

Post by El Castor
"White Nationalists" (as in White Southern males) were, I believe,
protesting the removal of a statue of Robert E Lee. Charlottesville is
the site of the University of Virginia, so they came prepared for a
fight -- and got one. We see the same thing in Berkeley when a
conservative like Anne Coulter tries to speak. No guns, because it's
Berkeley, but plenty of clubs and molotov cocktails. The cops mainly
just watch, the Left nods in approval, and the speaker is silenced.
Charlottesville is Southern males kicking back against a left wing
steamroller -- only this time free speech is not the issue, it's
Southern history.

It's not just Southern history that they are attempting to
change by removing the statue, it's Southern culture and
that's okay with me. Personally, I don't think that there is
a lot to admire in that particular aspect of Southern
Culture, anyway.

Let me offer my personal thought on Southern Culture. I can only speak from
personal observation -- but here goes. The only unique culture in the South is
in the dialect and habits of people over age 60. The culture of younger
Southerners is the same as that of people in Massachusetts and Wyoming. (to
name a couple) For the past fifty years, Southerners have attended public
schools who teach "diversity" and assimilation. They have also spent their
lives (and formulating years) watching the same TV programs seen by folks all
over the country. THAT has done more to shape culture than all the suggestions
of their elderly relatives. Except for the elderly -- I've not heard a
"Southern accent" in forty years. And the young all love "diversity" ! And
perversity !
My conclusion ? The South shares the same culture as the rest of the country.
Which reminds me of a cesspool.

However, it does seem that while the government is trying to
eliminate prejudice and violence by modifying white
Southern culture, they are at the same time encouraging it,
or at least turning a blind eye to it, in the black culture.

Blacks are simply trying to imitate the culture of their white inferiors.

I think one indication of a different culture in the South
is their voting preference. Here's a quote from Wiki showing
political party preference:

"Exit polls in the 2004 presidential election showed that
Bush led Kerry by 70–30% among Southern whites, who
comprised 71% of the voters. Kerry had a 90–9 lead among the
18% of black Southern voters. One-third of the Southern
voters said they were white evangelicals; they voted for
Bush by 80–20.[23]

After the 2016 election, every state legislature in the
South was GOP-controlled.[24] With the historic flip of
Elliott County, Kentucky from Democrat to Republican in
2016, every rural, white-majority county in the Southern
United States voted for the Republican nominee.[25]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_Southern_United_States

[Gary]

Post by mg

Post by Gary

It's not just Southern history that they are attempting to
change by removing the statue, it's Southern culture and
that's okay with me. Personally, I don't think that there is
a lot to admire in that particular aspect of Southern
Culture, anyway.

Let me offer my personal thought on Southern Culture. I can only speak from
personal observation -- but here goes. The only unique culture in the South is
in the dialect and habits of people over age 60. The culture of younger
Southerners is the same as that of people in Massachusetts and Wyoming. (to
name a couple) For the past fifty years, Southerners have attended public
schools who teach "diversity" and assimilation. They have also spent their
lives (and formulating years) watching the same TV programs seen by folks all
over the country. THAT has done more to shape culture than all the suggestions
of their elderly relatives. Except for the elderly -- I've not heard a
"Southern accent" in forty years. And the young all love "diversity" ! And
perversity !
My conclusion ? The South shares the same culture as the rest of the country.
Which reminds me of a cesspool.

However, it does seem that while the government is trying to
eliminate prejudice and violence by modifying white
Southern culture, they are at the same time encouraging it,
or at least turning a blind eye to it, in the black culture.

Blacks are simply trying to imitate the culture of their white inferiors.

I think one indication of a different culture in the South
is their voting preference. Here's a quote from Wiki showing
"Exit polls in the 2004 presidential election showed that
Bush led Kerry by 70–30% among Southern whites, who
comprised 71% of the voters. Kerry had a 90–9 lead among the
18% of black Southern voters. One-third of the Southern
voters said they were white evangelicals; they voted for
Bush by 80–20.[23]
After the 2016 election, every state legislature in the
South was GOP-controlled.[24] With the historic flip of
Elliott County, Kentucky from Democrat to Republican in
2016, every rural, white-majority county in the Southern
United States voted for the Republican nominee.[25]"

You broach a subject I find very interesting. Why do Southerners vote like
they do ? Twelve or fifteen years ago -- watching the Bush presidency -- I
asked myself a similar question. Why do Southerners always vote for the richest
candidate -- or for the candidate that the rich people prefer. That got me
interested in Southern history.

Why did "my people" always vote for the man who would help them the least ? I
finally reached a conclusion. The South and its culture is essentially
"Scotch-Irish". If you go back to old Scotland -- and the early South -- you
will see that the Scots were very respectful of their Tribal (Clan) leader.
They had been for over 1,000 years. Going back to before the Vikings invaded
Scotland.

And -- believe it or not -- that clannish tribalistic tradition is still a part
of our heritage. (Although we may not realize it or notice it). Which means we
prefer the candidate who is richest (like our clan leader). Or -- the one who
the rich people near us seem to prefer. After all -- that is the Scottish way.

You see -- in Scotland -- the great clan leaders are always rich. (thanks to the
labors of all us peasants) And us peasants always follow their lead. That --
in a nutshell -- is why Southerners vote so stupidly. (It's all subconscious)

I bet if Oprah ran for president -- the South would vote for her :-)

[Emily]

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

Fear not, the cops are out in full force, adorned with every helmet,
bulletproof vest and other protective thing they have and the governor
has declared a state of emergency. The protest will be over very soon
but nothing will have changed. Those against the protest are unarmed,
no bulletproof vests or helmets. But they have preachers. Maybe next
time they'll come prepared and leave the preachers at home.

[islander]

Post by Emily

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

Fear not, the cops are out in full force, adorned with every helmet,
bulletproof vest and other protective thing they have and the governor
has declared a state of emergency. The protest will be over very soon
but nothing will have changed. Those against the protest are unarmed,
no bulletproof vests or helmets. But they have preachers. Maybe next
time they'll come prepared and leave the preachers at home.

The thought occurred to me that they should arm themselves with water
guns or soakers filled with pink dye. Not very expensive and would tag
the white supremacists with an appropriate color.

[PJay OD]

Post by Emily

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

Fear not, the cops are out in full force, adorned with every helmet,
bulletproof vest and other protective thing they have and the governor
has declared a state of emergency. The protest will be over very soon
but nothing will have changed. Those against the protest are unarmed,
no bulletproof vests or helmets. But they have preachers. Maybe next
time they'll come prepared and leave the preachers at home.

8/12/17: Anti-fascist protester peacefully protesting in Charlottesville VA

Loading Image...

[GLOBALIST]

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

===================================
President Trump has condemned the violence on "BOTH SIDES"
https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderEmerickJones/videos/10155694024673459/

[rumpelstiltskin]

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

I saw the torches on TV late last night but I'm just now,
prompted by your post, checking out what else is going on.
Not pleasant, but humanity is not pleasant more often
than otherwise, so it's not that big a surprise.

I personally don't think statues of Robert E. Lee should
be destroyed: that's history. Maybe move them to a
museum. But of course, during the fall of Soviet
communism, statues of Lenin were pulled down.

[islander]

Post by rumpelstiltskin

Post by islander
Originally intended to unite alt-right advocated, it rapidly escalated
into a battle between white supremacists and those opposed to them.
Virginia is an open carry state and some idiots were seen carrying long
guns. So far, no one has been killed. Clearly the white supremacists
were prepared for violence with professional shields, pepper spray,
clubs and other weapons. A car was just driven into a group of
counter-protesters.
This is crazy!

I saw the torches on TV late last night but I'm just now,
prompted by your post, checking out what else is going on.
Not pleasant, but humanity is not pleasant more often
than otherwise, so it's not that big a surprise.
I personally don't think statues of Robert E. Lee should
be destroyed: that's history. Maybe move them to a
museum. But of course, during the fall of Soviet
communism, statues of Lenin were pulled down.

The torches were intended to remind people of the KKK demonstrations in
the past. I'm not surprised that this inspired opposition. The white
supremacists got more than they expected.

As to the statue, the town council voted to move it, not destroy it.
The vote was delayed by a court, but would have eventually happened.
The park was renamed "Emancipation Park" and there were some who thought
that a fitting historical memorial would be to the slaves who were sold
in the park.

[Indoarsman]

I'm a native Virginian and I considered retiring to Charlottesville before moving to Miami. It has reached the point now where I don't care what happens on any college campus in the country. -- BowTie

[Gary]

Post by Indoarsman
I'm a native Virginian and I considered retiring to Charlottesville
before moving to Miami. It has reached the point now where I don't
care what happens on any college campus in the country. -- BowTie

The only thing college is for these days -- is to promote "multi-culture" and
"diversity". Which is lowering Ameirca's average IQ by several points.