An Explanation for the Fermi Paradox?

[Quadibloc]

Jost saw this newspaper article through a clickbait ad:

https://nypost.com/2018/05/31/men-nearly-caused-human-extinction-7000-years-ago-new-theory-states/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_2959598

Researchers believe that 7,000 years ago, just before the early civilizations in
Mesopotamia arose, intense tribal warfare caused a serious human genetic
bottleneck, at least among males.

John Savard

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Quadibloc
https://nypost.com/2018/05/31/men-nearly-caused-human-extinction-7000-years-ago-new-theory-states/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_2959598
Researchers believe that 7,000 years ago, just before the early
civilizations in
Mesopotamia arose, intense tribal warfare caused a serious human genetic
bottleneck, at least among males.

Hmmmm.

"Essentially, the victorious clans would exterminate their
opponent.s menfolk to ensure ongoing dominance and the
eradication of potential competition. They would then seize the
surviving women."

I see a significant difference between "several Y-chromosome lines
became extinct" and "humans nearly became extinct."

[Moriarty]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Quadibloc
https://nypost.com/2018/05/31/men-nearly-caused-human-extinction-7000-years-ago-new-theory-states/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_2959598
Researchers believe that 7,000 years ago, just before the early civilizations in
Mesopotamia arose, intense tribal warfare caused a serious human genetic
bottleneck, at least among males.

Hmmmm.
"Essentially, the victorious clans would exterminate their
opponent.s menfolk to ensure ongoing dominance and the
eradication of potential competition. They would then seize the
surviving women."
I see a significant difference between "several Y-chromosome lines
became extinct" and "humans nearly became extinct."

Particularly when it ignores the existence of long isolated groups of humans in Australia and the Americas.

Throw in a few blatant errors, e.g. "The researchers say these pressures came to a head shortly before the first civilization emerged in Sumeria about 4,000 years ago.", and I'm wondering if the research team was led by Ed Conrad.

-Moriarty

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Moriarty
Throw in a few blatant errors, e.g. "The researchers say these pressures came to a head shortly before the first civilization emerged in Sumeria about 4,000 years ago.", and I'm wondering if the research team was led by Ed Conrad.

That's probably the journalist misunderstanding the researchers rather than the researchers getting it wrong.

[Cryptoengineer]

Post by Moriarty
Throw in a few blatant errors, e.g. "The researchers say these
pressures came to a head shortly before the first civilization
emerged in Sumeria about 4,000 years ago.", and I'm wondering if the
research team was led by Ed Conrad.

very, very crappy journalism.

pt

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Moriarty

Post by Moriarty
Throw in a few blatant errors, e.g. "The researchers say these

pressures came to a head shortly before the first civilization emerged
in Sumeria about 4,000 years ago.", and I'm wondering if the research
team was led by Ed Conrad.
That's probably the journalist misunderstanding the researchers rather
than the researchers getting it wrong.

It could be that. Or it could be the researchers themselves are
no better than they should be.

I can see the extinction of several Y-chromosome lines as a
result of battle, murder, and sudden death. I can't see it
affecting the rest of the genome much. As the article pointed
out, if you've got one man to seventeen women, the birthrate can
continue more or less unimpeded.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Moriarty

Post by Moriarty
Throw in a few blatant errors, e.g. "The researchers say these

pressures came to a head shortly before the first civilization emerged
in Sumeria about 4,000 years ago.", and I'm wondering if the research
team was led by Ed Conrad.
That's probably the journalist misunderstanding the researchers rather
than the researchers getting it wrong.

It could be that. Or it could be the researchers themselves are
no better than they should be.

I find it easier to believe that a journalist misunderstands what the researcher says than that the researchers haven't bothered to check on a date in the entire time they were looking at it.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I can see the extinction of several Y-chromosome lines as a
result of battle, murder, and sudden death. I can't see it
affecting the rest of the genome much. As the article pointed
out, if you've got one man to seventeen women, the birthrate can
continue more or less unimpeded.

That's going to depend a lot on how resources are generated.
While I think analysis of modern hunter/gatherer societies shows that women bring in more of the calories than men the men bring in more of some important nutrients (so do women for other ones)
If that held up back when these events were happening it could be a limiting factor

[Juho Julkunen]

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Moriarty

Post by Moriarty
Throw in a few blatant errors, e.g. "The researchers say these

pressures came to a head shortly before the first civilization emerged
in Sumeria about 4,000 years ago.", and I'm wondering if the research
team was led by Ed Conrad.
That's probably the journalist misunderstanding the researchers rather
than the researchers getting it wrong.

It could be that. Or it could be the researchers themselves are
no better than they should be.

I find it easier to believe that a journalist misunderstands what the researcher says than that the researchers haven't bothered to check on a date in the entire time they were looking at it.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I can see the extinction of several Y-chromosome lines as a
result of battle, murder, and sudden death. I can't see it
affecting the rest of the genome much. As the article pointed
out, if you've got one man to seventeen women, the birthrate can
continue more or less unimpeded.

That's going to depend a lot on how resources are generated.
While I think analysis of modern hunter/gatherer societies shows that women bring in more of the calories than men the men bring in more of some important nutrients (so do women for other ones)
If that held up back when these events were happening it could be a limiting factor

Because, as we all know, women are genetically incapable of assuming
foodgathering roles occupied by men.

While it is generally assumed that the women gathered and the men
hunted, it should be remembered that that assumption dates from a more
patriarchal era, and we don't actually have much solid evidence for it,
as cultural practices don't always fossilize very well.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Moriarty

Post by Moriarty
Throw in a few blatant errors, e.g. "The researchers say these

pressures came to a head shortly before the first civilization emerged
in Sumeria about 4,000 years ago.", and I'm wondering if the research
team was led by Ed Conrad.
That's probably the journalist misunderstanding the researchers rather
than the researchers getting it wrong.

It could be that. Or it could be the researchers themselves are
no better than they should be.

I find it easier to believe that a journalist misunderstands what the researcher says than that the researchers haven't bothered to check on a date in the entire time they were looking at it.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I can see the extinction of several Y-chromosome lines as a
result of battle, murder, and sudden death. I can't see it
affecting the rest of the genome much. As the article pointed
out, if you've got one man to seventeen women, the birthrate can
continue more or less unimpeded.

That's going to depend a lot on how resources are generated.
While I think analysis of modern hunter/gatherer societies shows that women bring in more of the calories than men the men bring in more of some important nutrients (so do women for other ones)
If that held up back when these events were happening it could be a limiting factor

Because, as we all know, women are genetically incapable of assuming
foodgathering roles occupied by men.

There are skills to learn,

Post by Juho Julkunen
While it is generally assumed that the women gathered and the men
hunted, it should be remembered that that assumption dates from a more
patriarchal era, and we don't actually have much solid evidence for it,
as cultural practices don't always fossilize very well.

as I understand it that's largely the way it goes in modern observance hunter/gatherer societies in widely different locations
Now that's not a guarantee that it was true of hunter/gatherer societies thousands of years ago it but it does seem likely that there was a breakdown of tasks

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Moriarty

Post by Moriarty
Throw in a few blatant errors, e.g. "The researchers say these

pressures came to a head shortly before the first civilization emerged
in Sumeria about 4,000 years ago.", and I'm wondering if the research
team was led by Ed Conrad.
That's probably the journalist misunderstanding the researchers rather
than the researchers getting it wrong.

It could be that. Or it could be the researchers themselves are
no better than they should be.

I find it easier to believe that a journalist misunderstands what

the researcher says than that the researchers haven't bothered to check
on a date in the entire time they were looking at it.

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I can see the extinction of several Y-chromosome lines as a
result of battle, murder, and sudden death. I can't see it
affecting the rest of the genome much. As the article pointed
out, if you've got one man to seventeen women, the birthrate can
continue more or less unimpeded.

That's going to depend a lot on how resources are generated.
While I think analysis of modern hunter/gatherer societies shows

that women bring in more of the calories than men the men bring in more
of some important nutrients (so do women for other ones)

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com
If that held up back when these events were happening it could be a

limiting factor

Post by Juho Julkunen
Because, as we all know, women are genetically incapable of assuming
foodgathering roles occupied by men.

There are skills to learn,

Post by Juho Julkunen
While it is generally assumed that the women gathered and the men
hunted, it should be remembered that that assumption dates from a more
patriarchal era, and we don't actually have much solid evidence for it,
as cultural practices don't always fossilize very well.

as I understand it that's largely the way it goes in modern observance
hunter/gatherer societies in widely different locations
Now that's not a guarantee that it was true of hunter/gatherer societies
thousands of years ago it but it does seem likely that there was a
breakdown of tasks

To some extent, yes, because women of childbearing age in a
primitive society generally have a small child on hand (or on
breast) and can't do much hunting.

Note the various myths of the virgin huntress ... who, once she
ceases to be a virgin, becomes a mother and can't hunt any more.

And note also the sequence in BBC's _Walking with Cavemen_ in
which a group of five _Homo Ergaster_ are out hunting. They
consist of one canny old male, one mature male, two young males
who have not yet learned that patience is a large part of pursuit
predation ... and one old female. She's past the age of
child-bearing, which frees her up to go on the hunt again.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Moriarty

Post by Moriarty
Throw in a few blatant errors, e.g. "The researchers say these

pressures came to a head shortly before the first civilization emerged
in Sumeria about 4,000 years ago.", and I'm wondering if the research
team was led by Ed Conrad.
That's probably the journalist misunderstanding the researchers rather
than the researchers getting it wrong.

It could be that. Or it could be the researchers themselves are
no better than they should be.

I find it easier to believe that a journalist misunderstands what the researcher says than that the researchers haven't bothered to check on a date in the entire time they were looking at it.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I can see the extinction of several Y-chromosome lines as a
result of battle, murder, and sudden death. I can't see it
affecting the rest of the genome much. As the article pointed
out, if you've got one man to seventeen women, the birthrate can
continue more or less unimpeded.

That's going to depend a lot on how resources are generated.
While I think analysis of modern hunter/gatherer societies shows that women bring in more of the calories than men the men bring in more of some important nutrients (so do women for other ones)
If that held up back when these events were happening it could be a limiting factor

Because, as we all know, women are genetically incapable of assuming
foodgathering roles occupied by men.
While it is generally assumed that the women gathered and the men
hunted, it should be remembered that that assumption dates from a more
patriarchal era, and we don't actually have much solid evidence for it,
as cultural practices don't always fossilize very well.

Well, they do fossilize sometimes, just not in a manner that involves
rocks. ;)

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Juho Julkunen
While it is generally assumed that the women gathered and the men
hunted, it should be remembered that that assumption dates from a more
patriarchal era, and we don't actually have much solid evidence for it,
as cultural practices don't always fossilize very well.

Well, they do fossilize sometimes, just not in a manner that involves
rocks. ;)

Nicely put.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Juho Julkunen
While it is generally assumed that the women gathered and the men
hunted, it should be remembered that that assumption dates from a more
patriarchal era, and we don't actually have much solid evidence for it,
as cultural practices don't always fossilize very well.

Well, they do fossilize sometimes, just not in a manner that involves
rocks. ;)

Nicely put.

Thank you.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com
While I think analysis of modern hunter/gatherer societies shows that women bring in more of the calories than men the men bring in more of some important nutrients (so do women for other ones)
If that held up back when these events were happening it could be a limiting factor

Because, as we all know, women are genetically incapable of assuming
foodgathering roles occupied by men.

Upper-body strength actually *does* have a great impact on the ability of people
to hunt typical meat animals like deer.

However, people can get by on a diet that is very limited in meat if they eat
the right kind of vegetable foods - things like beans - and one could even
imagine the women catching smaller animals like rabbits. Or just shift the mode
of hunting: women may not be quite as good as men at throwing spears, but surely
they'd do well enough to kill an animal in a pit trap, say.

John Savard

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com
While I think analysis of modern hunter/gatherer societies shows

that women bring in more of the calories than men the men bring in more
of some important nutrients (so do women for other ones)

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com
If that held up back when these events were happening it could be a

limiting factor

Post by Juho Julkunen
Because, as we all know, women are genetically incapable of assuming
foodgathering roles occupied by men.

Upper-body strength actually *does* have a great impact on the ability of people
to hunt typical meat animals like deer.
However, people can get by on a diet that is very limited in meat if they eat
the right kind of vegetable foods - things like beans - and one could even
imagine the women catching smaller animals like rabbits. Or just shift the mode
of hunting: women may not be quite as good as men at throwing spears, but surely
they'd do well enough to kill an animal in a pit trap, say.

Snares are the traditional way of catching an animal that is
fairly small and can run a lot faster than you. You do have to
spend some time observing where it likes to run, in order to set
the snare in its path.

And moderate, rather than massive, upper-body strength is
adequate for using a bow, once bows have been invented. I don't
know about atlatls, since those require an ability to throw
overhand. The *average* woman has narrower shoulders than the
*average* man. There are exceptions; my daughter has her
father's Viking shoulders. I've never watched her try to throw
something overhand, but I bet she could.

[Kevrob]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com
While I think analysis of modern hunter/gatherer societies shows

that women bring in more of the calories than men the men bring in more
of some important nutrients (so do women for other ones)

Post by Juho Julkunen

Post by h***@gmail.com
If that held up back when these events were happening it could be a

limiting factor

Post by Juho Julkunen
Because, as we all know, women are genetically incapable of assuming
foodgathering roles occupied by men.

Upper-body strength actually *does* have a great impact on the ability of people
to hunt typical meat animals like deer.
However, people can get by on a diet that is very limited in meat if they eat
the right kind of vegetable foods - things like beans - and one could even
imagine the women catching smaller animals like rabbits. Or just shift the mode
of hunting: women may not be quite as good as men at throwing spears, but surely
they'd do well enough to kill an animal in a pit trap, say.

Snares are the traditional way of catching an animal that is
fairly small and can run a lot faster than you. You do have to
spend some time observing where it likes to run, in order to set
the snare in its path.
And moderate, rather than massive, upper-body strength is
adequate for using a bow, once bows have been invented. I don't
know about atlatls, since those require an ability to throw
overhand. The *average* woman has narrower shoulders than the
*average* man. There are exceptions; my daughter has her
father's Viking shoulders. I've never watched her try to throw
something overhand, but I bet she could.
--

Slings multiply one's natural stone-throwing range, too.

Isn't one of the effective megafauna hunting tricks to
burn a field and stampede the meals-on-4-legs into a
pit or ravine, or off a steep drop, where the whole
hunting party, male, female, young, old, etc can finish
off the stunned beast(s,) to be butchered. One might
have to be Young, Strong and Fast to be in the van, but
not to join in on the slicing of haunches, etc.

Kevin R

[Greg Goss]

Post by Kevrob
Isn't one of the effective megafauna hunting tricks to
burn a field and stampede the meals-on-4-legs into a
pit or ravine, or off a steep drop, where the whole
hunting party, male, female, young, old, etc can finish
off the stunned beast(s,) to be butchered. One might
have to be Young, Strong and Fast to be in the van, but
not to join in on the slicing of haunches, etc.

Near where I live is a cliff that's been used this way for 11,000
years. When the natives were signing away their rights to the
Canadian Prairies, the Treaty Seven partners made sure that their
reserved territory included Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump.

Then the Buffalo went near extinct, and the cliff no longer was the
most useful territory for hundreds of miles in any direction.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Kevrob
Isn't one of the effective megafauna hunting tricks to
burn a field and stampede the meals-on-4-legs into a
pit or ravine, or off a steep drop, where the whole
hunting party, male, female, young, old, etc can finish
off the stunned beast(s,) to be butchered. One might
have to be Young, Strong and Fast to be in the van, but
not to join in on the slicing of haunches, etc.

Near where I live is a cliff that's been used this way for 11,000
years. When the natives were signing away their rights to the
Canadian Prairies, the Treaty Seven partners made sure that their
reserved territory included Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump.
Then the Buffalo went near extinct, and the cliff no longer was the
most useful territory for hundreds of miles in any direction.

There's been fairly successful efforts to restore the buffalo
population in the US. Not to the way it was before the Europeans
arrived, obviously, but viable populations. Has there been a
similar project in Canada?

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Kevrob
Isn't one of the effective megafauna hunting tricks to
burn a field and stampede the meals-on-4-legs into a
pit or ravine, or off a steep drop, where the whole
hunting party, male, female, young, old, etc can finish
off the stunned beast(s,) to be butchered. One might
have to be Young, Strong and Fast to be in the van, but
not to join in on the slicing of haunches, etc.

Near where I live is a cliff that's been used this way for 11,000
years. When the natives were signing away their rights to the
Canadian Prairies, the Treaty Seven partners made sure that their
reserved territory included Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump.
Then the Buffalo went near extinct, and the cliff no longer was the
most useful territory for hundreds of miles in any direction.

There's been fairly successful efforts to restore the buffalo
population in the US. Not to the way it was before the Europeans
arrived, obviously, but viable populations. Has there been a
similar project in Canada?

And in a post 9/11 world, do the buffalo need passports and pass
security checks to roam across the border?

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Kevrob
Isn't one of the effective megafauna hunting tricks to
burn a field and stampede the meals-on-4-legs into a
pit or ravine, or off a steep drop, where the whole
hunting party, male, female, young, old, etc can finish
off the stunned beast(s,) to be butchered. One might
have to be Young, Strong and Fast to be in the van, but
not to join in on the slicing of haunches, etc.

Near where I live is a cliff that's been used this way for 11,000
years. When the natives were signing away their rights to the
Canadian Prairies, the Treaty Seven partners made sure that their
reserved territory included Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump.
Then the Buffalo went near extinct, and the cliff no longer was the
most useful territory for hundreds of miles in any direction.

There's been fairly successful efforts to restore the buffalo
population in the US. Not to the way it was before the Europeans
arrived, obviously, but viable populations. Has there been a
similar project in Canada?

And in a post 9/11 world, do the buffalo need passports and pass
security checks to roam across the border?

Not the Canadian border. Not yet. If Trump ever succeeds (quod
absit) in building the wall against Mexico, the wildlife will
suffer more than they already do.

[Greg Goss]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Greg Goss
Then the Buffalo went near extinct, and the cliff no longer was the
most useful territory for hundreds of miles in any direction.

There's been fairly successful efforts to restore the buffalo
population in the US. Not to the way it was before the Europeans
arrived, obviously, but viable populations. Has there been a
similar project in Canada?

And in a post 9/11 world, do the buffalo need passports and pass
security checks to roam across the border?

Not the Canadian border. Not yet. If Trump ever succeeds (quod
absit) in building the wall against Mexico, the wildlife will
suffer more than they already do.

A friend of mine used to work for Revenue Canada as a programmer.
"Customs and Revenue" was the actual department.

He says that he was once invited into the operations room for their
border guarding operation. He was told that deer were always
activatiing the sensors, and they had been trying to recalibrate the
sensors to distinguish between a 40 pound deer and a hundred something
pound smuggler.

[Titus G]

On 10/06/18 14:45, Greg Goss wrote:
snip

Post by Greg Goss
A friend of mine used to work for Revenue Canada as a programmer.
"Customs and Revenue" was the actual department.
He says that he was once invited into the operations room for their
border guarding operation. He was told that deer were always
activatiing the sensors, and they had been trying to recalibrate the
sensors to distinguish between a 40 pound deer and a hundred something
pound smuggler.

A 40 pound deer wouldn't feed my medium sized 28kg mongrels for long but
probably for longer than a 101 pound smuggler who at that weight, (and
smuggling nothing), would have little of nourishment other than offal
and brain.
(Was your friend's name Quadibloc?)

[Greg Goss]

Post by Titus G
snip

Post by Greg Goss
A friend of mine used to work for Revenue Canada as a programmer.
"Customs and Revenue" was the actual department.
He says that he was once invited into the operations room for their
border guarding operation. He was told that deer were always
activatiing the sensors, and they had been trying to recalibrate the
sensors to distinguish between a 40 pound deer and a hundred something
pound smuggler.

A 40 pound deer wouldn't feed my medium sized 28kg mongrels for long but
probably for longer than a 101 pound smuggler who at that weight, (and
smuggling nothing), would have little of nourishment other than offal
and brain.
(Was your friend's name Quadibloc?)

No. I think Quadi is back east somewhere (Ottawa?), while this guy
has always lived near Vancouver.

But he's been around computers a long time. He claims that he used to
hang out on "Relay" before they spliced it onto the internet as IRC.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Greg Goss
No. I think Quadi is back east somewhere (Ottawa?), while this guy
has always lived near Vancouver.

I'm still living in Edmonton, Alberta.

John Savard

[The Doctor]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Greg Goss
No. I think Quadi is back east somewhere (Ottawa?), while this guy
has always lived near Vancouver.

I'm still living in Edmonton, Alberta.
John Savard

Met you a few times.

[David DeLaney]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Greg Goss
No. I think Quadi is back east somewhere (Ottawa?), while this guy
has always lived near Vancouver.

I'm still living in Edmonton, Alberta.

... if you call that living!

Dave, ba dum TISSSH

[William Hyde]

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Titus G
snip

Post by Greg Goss
A friend of mine used to work for Revenue Canada as a programmer.
"Customs and Revenue" was the actual department.
He says that he was once invited into the operations room for their
border guarding operation. He was told that deer were always
activatiing the sensors, and they had been trying to recalibrate the
sensors to distinguish between a 40 pound deer and a hundred something
pound smuggler.

A 40 pound deer wouldn't feed my medium sized 28kg mongrels for long but
probably for longer than a 101 pound smuggler who at that weight, (and
smuggling nothing), would have little of nourishment other than offal
and brain.
(Was your friend's name Quadibloc?)

No. I think Quadi is back east somewhere (Ottawa?),

No blaming him on us! He's one of your problems.

We have enough problems of our own.

William Hyde

[Greg Goss]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Greg Goss
Near where I live is a cliff that's been used this way for 11,000
years. When the natives were signing away their rights to the
Canadian Prairies, the Treaty Seven partners made sure that their
reserved territory included Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump.
Then the Buffalo went near extinct, and the cliff no longer was the
most useful territory for hundreds of miles in any direction.

There's been fairly successful efforts to restore the buffalo
population in the US. Not to the way it was before the Europeans
arrived, obviously, but viable populations. Has there been a
similar project in Canada?

The buffalo got dis-endangered in the seventies. A burger place where
I hung out had a grid - horizontal lines was the burger type, and
vertiical was the meat (or meat equivalent) to go into it. Two of the
columns were buffalo and beefalo (hybrid).

But, at least in Southern Alberta, they don't run wild anywhere I
could see.

[Kevrob]

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Greg Goss
Near where I live is a cliff that's been used this way for 11,000
years. When the natives were signing away their rights to the
Canadian Prairies, the Treaty Seven partners made sure that their
reserved territory included Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump.
Then the Buffalo went near extinct, and the cliff no longer was the
most useful territory for hundreds of miles in any direction.

There's been fairly successful efforts to restore the buffalo
population in the US. Not to the way it was before the Europeans
arrived, obviously, but viable populations. Has there been a
similar project in Canada?

The buffalo got dis-endangered in the seventies. A burger place where
I hung out had a grid - horizontal lines was the burger type, and
vertiical was the meat (or meat equivalent) to go into it. Two of the
columns were buffalo and beefalo (hybrid).
But, at least in Southern Alberta, they don't run wild anywhere I
could see.

A family-owned drive-in located in the city where I work and used
to live, serves bison burgers. I quite like them.

Kevin R

[Quadibloc]

Post by Greg Goss
The buffalo got dis-endangered in the seventies.

It's true that bison are not an endangered species any longer. However, the North Amerian bison population is still much smaller than its pre-Colombian value.

John Savard

[Greg Goss]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I can see the extinction of several Y-chromosome lines as a
result of battle, murder, and sudden death. I can't see it
affecting the rest of the genome much. As the article pointed
out, if you've got one man to seventeen women, the birthrate can
continue more or less unimpeded.

And since the Y is a very small chromosome, you've still got enough
genetic variety to survive diseases.

[Peter Trei]

Post by Greg Goss

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I can see the extinction of several Y-chromosome lines as a
result of battle, murder, and sudden death. I can't see it
affecting the rest of the genome much. As the article pointed
out, if you've got one man to seventeen women, the birthrate can
continue more or less unimpeded.

And since the Y is a very small chromosome, you've still got enough
genetic variety to survive diseases.

Indeed! Half the population manages just fine (perhaps better) with
no Y chromosome at all.

pt

[Quadibloc]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I see a significant difference between "several Y-chromosome lines
became extinct" and "humans nearly became extinct."

Well, it's true that humans wouldn't become extinct _immediately_ if no women
had been killed.

However, if a very small group of men were the fathers of the entire next
generation of humans, then the grandchildren might have problems, or a later
generation might, due to severe inbreeding.

There's also the chance that the last man to kill the other men and steal their
wives might have been infertile, or something like that.

John Savard

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I see a significant difference between "several Y-chromosome
lines became extinct" and "humans nearly became extinct."

Well, it's true that humans wouldn't become extinct
_immediately_ if no women had been killed.
However, if a very small group of men were the fathers of the
entire next generation of humans, then the grandchildren might
have problems, or a later generation might, due to severe
inbreeding.

Modern research suggests the dangers of inbreeding are somewhat
exaggerated.

Post by Quadibloc
There's also the chance that the last man to kill the other men
and steal their wives might have been infertile, or something
like that.

I believe the point here is that the phenomenon being discussed was
not, in fact, univeral and planet-wide. That there were isoalted
populations at the time (like Australiz) who were totally unaffected.
Ergo, the "human nearly became extinct" is rubbish.

Not surprising you swallowed it whole, of course.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I see a significant difference between "several Y-chromosome
lines became extinct" and "humans nearly became extinct."

Well, it's true that humans wouldn't become extinct
_immediately_ if no women had been killed.
However, if a very small group of men were the fathers of the
entire next generation of humans, then the grandchildren might
have problems, or a later generation might, due to severe
inbreeding.

Modern research suggests the dangers of inbreeding are somewhat
exaggerated.

Post by Quadibloc
There's also the chance that the last man to kill the other men
and steal their wives might have been infertile, or something
like that.

I believe the point here is that the phenomenon being discussed was
not, in fact, univeral and planet-wide. That there were isoalted
populations at the time (like Australiz) who were totally unaffected.
Ergo, the "human nearly became extinct" is rubbish.
Not surprising you swallowed it whole, of course.

I think Quaddie has some snake genes in his makeup. It would explain
how he can unhinge his jaw and mind enough to swallow as much as he does.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 7:00:06 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I see a significant difference between "several Y-chromosome
lines became extinct" and "humans nearly became extinct."

Well, it's true that humans wouldn't become extinct
_immediately_ if no women had been killed.
However, if a very small group of men were the fathers of the
entire next generation of humans, then the grandchildren might
have problems, or a later generation might, due to severe
inbreeding.

Modern research suggests the dangers of inbreeding are somewhat
exaggerated.

There's also the chance that the last man to kill the other
men and steal their wives might have been infertile, or
something like that.

I believe the point here is that the phenomenon being discussed
was not, in fact, univeral and planet-wide. That there were
isoalted populations at the time (like Australiz) who were
totally unaffected. Ergo, the "human nearly became extinct" is
rubbish.
Not surprising you swallowed it whole, of course.

I think Quaddie has some snake genes in his makeup. It would
explain how he can unhinge his jaw and mind enough to swallow as
much as he does.

And his affinity for snake *oil*.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I see a significant difference between "several Y-chromosome lines
became extinct" and "humans nearly became extinct."

Well, it's true that humans wouldn't become extinct _immediately_ if no women
had been killed.
However, if a very small group of men were the fathers of the entire next
generation of humans, then the grandchildren might have problems, or a later
generation might, due to severe inbreeding.
There's also the chance that the last man to kill the other men and steal their
wives might have been infertile, or something like that.

Well, then, the whole troop dies out ... or else the women go off
in search of better men. Remember once more that the Y
chromosome is a tiny nubbin, doing practically nothing but
determining maleness.

As can be seen graphically demonstrated here:

[Des]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I see a significant difference between "several Y-chromosome lines
became extinct" and "humans nearly became extinct."

Well, it's true that humans wouldn't become extinct _immediately_ if no women
had been killed.
However, if a very small group of men were the fathers of the entire next
generation of humans, then the grandchildren might have problems, or a later
generation might, due to severe inbreeding.
There's also the chance that the last man to kill the other men and steal their
wives might have been infertile, or something like that.

Well, then, the whole troop dies out ... or else the women go off
in search of better men. Remember once more that the Y
chromosome is a tiny nubbin, doing practically nothing but
determining maleness.
http://youtu.be/osWuWjbeO-Y
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

I came across a humorous solution to the Fermi Paradox some years ago, and apologise if it has been posted here already (which is likely):
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/TheyMade.shtml

[Kevrob]

Post by Des

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I see a significant difference between "several Y-chromosome lines
became extinct" and "humans nearly became extinct."

Well, it's true that humans wouldn't become extinct _immediately_ if no women
had been killed.
However, if a very small group of men were the fathers of the entire next
generation of humans, then the grandchildren might have problems, or a later
generation might, due to severe inbreeding.
There's also the chance that the last man to kill the other men and steal their
wives might have been infertile, or something like that.

Well, then, the whole troop dies out ... or else the women go off
in search of better men. Remember once more that the Y
chromosome is a tiny nubbin, doing practically nothing but
determining maleness.
http://youtu.be/osWuWjbeO-Y
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/TheyMade.shtml

Eset no like:

Warning!

HTML/SEOSpam.A trojan

Kevin R

[Moriarty]

<snip>

Post by Kevrob

Post by Des
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/TheyMade.shtml

Warning!
HTML/SEOSpam.A trojan
Kevin R

Here's the official one, from the author's website. It's a worthwhile read, though I dare say everyone here's already read it.

http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html

-Moriarty

[Leo Sgouros]

Post by Moriarty
<snip>

Post by Kevrob

Post by Des
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/TheyMade.shtml

Warning!
HTML/SEOSpam.A trojan
Kevin R

Here's the official one, from the author's website. It's a worthwhile read, though I dare say everyone here's already read it.
http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html
-Moriarty

I had not, the dollar is a nice thought. Here is a relevant song.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Moriarty
Here's the official one, from the author's website. It's a worthwhile
read, though I dare say everyone here's already read it.
http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html

Ah yes, I've seen that. Fun, though.

[Titus G]

Post by Moriarty
<snip>

Post by Kevrob

Post by Des
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/TheyMade.shtml

Warning!
HTML/SEOSpam.A trojan
Kevin R

Here's the official one, from the author's website. It's a worthwhile read, though I dare say everyone here's already read it.
http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html

I remembered the outline but not the detail and I had forgotten how
funny it was so it was well worth a re-read.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Des
I came across a humorous solution to the Fermi Paradox some years ago,
http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/TheyMade.shtml

My security software says this is a trojan and has blocked it.

[Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha]

I've often wondered just how far away we could detect ourselves. By
which, I mean

a) do our electromagnetic emissions actually exceed that of the sun?

b) is there enough coherent to them to identify them as an artificial
signal, or do the worldwide radio broadcasts all merge together into
random noise?

c) propagation issues aside (since we've only been broadcasting _at
all_ for a little over a century), assuming the answers to a) and b)
are both "yes," at what interstellar distance could we pick up our
own signal?

I'm sure someone far more knowledable than me has worked all this
out, but I've never run across it.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
a) do our electromagnetic emissions actually exceed that of the sun?

Not in general, of course, but I have read that they do in some frequency bands.

John Savard